Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
EVE Online: Rookie Revamp
Szark
News ManagerMember Posts: 4,420
CCP has posted a new dev blog which goes into detail about what players can expect from the New Player Experience that will arrive with the launch of Apocrypha, the next expansion for EVE Online.
Apocrypha is on the horizon and we are getting closer and closer to the final list of changes that will be popping up in March. But as usual, I get to talk about the New Player Experience (NPE).
I want to get one misconception out of the way. This blog will concern you and everyone else. If you have played for a year, 6 years, 3 months or a week, you will want to read further than this. Chances are there will be changes that will affect you! Although NPE in it‘s very existence focuses on the new player and how they are introduced to EVE, this can have an effect on older players as well. Many believe that the NPE extends only to the first 5 minutes. With some games, this might be true. But as we have all gone through the first months of EVE and often thought; „oh my, this game is too hard!"
)
Read more about the Rookie Revamp in EVE: Apocrypha.
Comments
"Once a year, you - and everyone else - can take 14 attribute points, and re-arrange them within reason. Attributes can be set at values anywhere from 5 to 15. This means, that every year, you can take all your spare charisma points and put them into perception if you so please. Or the other way around."
All I can say is: Awesome!
I wonder if it's a 365day timer or based on a calendar year.
ack! NPE! /cringes
Rearrage 14 skill points?! Holy sweet jesus I'm resubbing this expansion, this is the one! Time to break out the old Sleipnir!
FFXI: Gauhar - Odin
Hmmm the 14 points a year thing sounds like a great idea and it is going to save me a lot of time in training once I am able to re-distribute them.
Taking new players from 800k skill points back to 50k or whatever it is has me a bit concerned though and I have to ask is this going to affect people that are already playing the game and have been for some time? (Are we going to lose any of our skill points? To bring us into line with the new player base)
Here one Day Gone The Next.
Game reviewer.
no and yes, Any skillpoints that you have wil stay there, however what wasn't mentioned is that supposedly new players will be recieving I believe double SP rate up to 1.6million sp so that they can train what they want to instead of getting a random set of skills they may or may not use.
no and yes, Any skillpoints that you have wil stay there, however what wasn't mentioned is that supposedly new players will be recieving I believe double SP rate up to 1.6million sp so that they can train what they want to instead of getting a random set of skills they may or may not use.
Honestly.... I think I would prefer to start with 800k then have double to 1.6mill.
No matter what, people are going to baseline in to Learning first typically. Then they will have no skills to start. Sure youll get it double the speed, but it will still take a couple weeks for a new player to get up to 1.6mill even with double SP.
As it stands now, a new player could be semi-effective a couple days in, even if they only put in to learning skills the entire time, because you can start with a couple level 5 skills when you spec your char in to something.
How long does it take for a new player just to train a single skill to level 5 at double SP, without learning skills?
I hope I'm wrong, but I see this as screwing new characters over for their first couple weeks even more then new chars are right now.
The big problem for newbies is is new players have to put in to learning or neccessity skills for most of their trial time and dont even get to really experience the game. The new changes dont do anything to fix it and seem to only add on top of this problem.
I think it would be better to give new players their old starter templates cept w/ a few more useful skills, AS WELL as the double SP to 1.6m. Or even give some learning skills so people dont have to spend their first few weeks either putting in to learning skills or getting pathetic sp/hour.
At this point, Eve has been out long enough that another BOOST is due, like when the starter SP was increased to 800k. It would not hurt established players, even they would be happy because easier alts.
Everything else sounds great, but this is a glaring problem with Eve in my opinion. Pretty much everyone I know who does trial is bored as hell for the first week-week and a half, then they start being able to get in to it. I also know many people who didnt even make it thru the first week becuase of this same problem.
You need to make players first few weeks FUN. Especially during their free-trial time. Dont take away their few lvl 5 skills they start with for double SP to 1.6mill (where they will only be starting to become barely-viable anyway). If you want to give them double SP, give them that in addition to the starter skills. Or give them learning skills instead. Having skills that people pretty much HAVE to train without hurting themselves is a stupid idea anyway. That isnt an "option" for character customization, it is a hassle.
no and yes, Any skillpoints that you have wil stay there, however what wasn't mentioned is that supposedly new players will be recieving I believe double SP rate up to 1.6million sp so that they can train what they want to instead of getting a random set of skills they may or may not use.
Honestly.... I think I would prefer to start with 800k then have double to 1.6mill.
No matter what, people are going to baseline in to Learning first typically. Then they will have no skills to start. Sure youll get it double the speed, but it will still take a couple weeks for a new player to get up to 1.6mill even with double SP.
As it stands now, a new player could be semi-effective a couple days in, even if they only put in to learning skills the entire time, because you can start with a couple level 5 skills when you spec your char in to something.
How long does it take for a new player just to train a single skill to level 5 at double SP, without learning skills?
I hope I'm wrong, but I see this as screwing new characters over for their first couple weeks even more then new chars are right now.
The big problem for newbies is is new players have to put in to learning or neccessity skills for most of their trial time and dont even get to really experience the game. The new changes dont do anything to fix it and seem to only add on top of this problem.
I think it would be better to give new players their old starter templates cept w/ a few more useful skills, AS WELL as the double SP to 1.6m. Or even give some learning skills so people dont have to spend their first few weeks either putting in to learning skills or getting pathetic sp/hour.
At this point, Eve has been out long enough that another BOOST is due, like when the starter SP was increased to 800k. It would not hurt established players, even they would be happy because easier alts.
Everything else sounds great, but this is a glaring problem with Eve in my opinion. Pretty much everyone I know who does trial is bored as hell for the first week-week and a half, then they start being able to get in to it. I also know many people who didnt even make it thru the first week becuase of this same problem.
You need to make players first few weeks FUN. Especially during their free-trial time. Dont take away their few lvl 5 skills they start with for double SP to 1.6mill (where they will only be starting to become barely-viable anyway). If you want to give them double SP, give them that in addition to the starter skills. Or give them learning skills instead. Having skills that people pretty much HAVE to train without hurting themselves is a stupid idea anyway. That isnt an "option" for character customization, it is a hassle.
Sorry but I have to completely disagree with you. You have forgotten completely what the new player feel and learn at the beginning. You don't need any level 5 skills to start, If you sat down and thought about it, there is only a tiny percentage difference between levels 3, 4 and 5. You might need the level 5 later to train something else, but most certainly not at the beginning.
So I think what CCP doing is great, what they should have done a lone time ago. It gives a the player time to decide what direction they want to go and they can still have plenty of fun doing it.
I've made a new manufacturing alt very recently, I know how it is.
Let me give you some examples.
Lvl 5 starter-skills leave you VERY close to getting t2 gear for whatever skill that is. Example - Lvl 5 guns and your close to T2 guns. Lvl 5 drones and ur close to interfacing. These are both HUGE boosts, and you can get them straight away!
For example, Right now you can make a noob gallente char that starts with lvl 5 drones, lvl 5 drone nav, lvl 4 drone sharpshooting, lvl 4 scout drone op. You are - right at the beginning - ready to train in to Drone Interfacing which is a HUGE dps upgrade. Just getting lvl 3 is a 60% boost to your damage.
60% damage is a HUGE boost for a new character! Drone 5 is also a pre-req for many other drone skills.
Lets pop just drone 5 and drone interfacing 3 in to Evemon, on a brand new character that actually put 2 points in to both perception and memory (the drone skills) on a new character - and it comes out to a total of 12 days 12 hours 15mins.
To get ALL of the drone skills that the starting character has, your looking at 25 days 11 hours 11 mins. I dont think anyone out there can say any of these skills are a waste either. Lets add the efficient learning skills, and we're down to 20 and a half days. So lets cut that in half with the 2x SP boost that is coming in the expansion - your still looking at over 10 days.
This is JUST FOR DRONE SKILLS ALONE. Whether your going for drones, guns, whatever, its allvery similar scenarios. Not to mention t2 guns are extremely important for new characters, not just because of the DPS, but because they are cheaper to come by then named versions, and money is an issue for new chars.
So basically, after 10 days of play time, you will be where you are at with a brand new character right now. Thats most of your trial if you get one from their site, and half of a trial if you get an invite from a friend.
Sure, they will have double SP after that for an extra 800k more then the new chars currently, but you lost 10 days already!
By the time you get from 50k-1.6m with double SP, its approx the same amount of time it takes a new character now to get from 800k+ to 1.6m. The only difference is for the first 10 days your LESS useful then you would be otherwise!
Can you honestly say that is helping new characters???
It's addressing the wrong issue. The issue isnt the variety of skills players can start with. Hell, starting a character with those skills is a GOOD thing because new chars dont know what the heck to train anyway.
The issue for new players is they are ineffective for most of their trial. This change will only make it worse. Beyond the trial, things are just as bad as they are now.
This also isnt addressing the issue that most players will spend even more time of their trial spending in learning skills - a problem now AND after this update. My numbers of 10days are assuming you went straight for those skills using the most efficient plan in Evemon - most new players get all their learning skills to 3-4 before they do anything and dont know about Evemon. This would mean an extra 4-5 days even when you cut them in half due to double SP. Which means their entire trial...
"Careers - the sandbox way!
As I mentioned before, in the existing system players chose a career before even the first 10 minutes of play and, as with many games, it is an important choice. But with EVE, as you know, you can become anything you wish. You can move from shooting players to mining at any time. You are not bound by any restrictions by your "career." It gives the false impression that you are deciding on something, which then doesn't mean a thing in the world of New Eden.
However, you can learn about these particular career paths. As before, we will have 10 missions per career, which will teach you the basics of Industry, Business and Military occupations. These have been revamped, and are all available to you. You can go through them all if you want, or just one, or none. Your choice and your destiny.
This concludes the first part of the Apocrypha NPE overview blogs. There will be more from my design counterparts and myself in the coming weeks, so stay tuned."
I guess you missed this part of the devblog eh ? In the current system when a new player makes a toon he may have all those skills at decent levels but that new player still doesnt know what he is doing or if that is the path he really wants to take. the new player takes what they think sounds cool at the time. So basically a new player can start with a few skills at 5 and be ready to go somewhat but that really only works for older players re-rolling a new toon.
What this new system does is gives players fewer skills which reduces confusion. Then it decresases training times so new players can get back to where they would have been before. The big thing though is that with the new career guide missions new players can dabble in each of the careers and then decide which they prefer and move in that direction with some actual focus which in turn alleviates some the new player confusion and keeps them in the game longer.
Oh yeah don't forget that new players that buy the box will get their faction standing at 0.5 to start so they can indeed get into some PvP right away.
This new system seems like a nerf to new players when it is actually a boost for them. It gives the new players a little more focus at the start which is something I think you need to have in the game at any stage. Hell even close to 6 years of playing for me I still need to keep focused on what I want to do and fly and do in game.
"Careers - the sandbox way!
As I mentioned before, in the existing system players chose a career before even the first 10 minutes of play and, as with many games, it is an important choice. But with EVE, as you know, you can become anything you wish. You can move from shooting players to mining at any time. You are not bound by any restrictions by your "career." It gives the false impression that you are deciding on something, which then doesn't mean a thing in the world of New Eden.
However, you can learn about these particular career paths. As before, we will have 10 missions per career, which will teach you the basics of Industry, Business and Military occupations. These have been revamped, and are all available to you. You can go through them all if you want, or just one, or none. Your choice and your destiny.
This concludes the first part of the Apocrypha NPE overview blogs. There will be more from my design counterparts and myself in the coming weeks, so stay tuned."
I guess you missed this part of the devblog eh ? In the current system when a new player makes a toon he may have all those skills at decent levels but that new player still doesnt know what he is doing or if that is the path he really wants to take. the new player takes what they think sounds cool at the time. So basically a new player can start with a few skills at 5 and be ready to go somewhat but that really only works for older players re-rolling a new toon.
What this new system does is gives players fewer skills which reduces confusion. Then it decresases training times so new players can get back to where they would have been before. The big thing though is that with the new career guide missions new players can dabble in each of the careers and then decide which they prefer and move in that direction with some actual focus which in turn alleviates some the new player confusion and keeps them in the game longer.
Oh yeah don't forget that new players that buy the box will get their faction standing at 0.5 to start so they can indeed get into some PvP right away.
This new system seems like a nerf to new players when it is actually a boost for them. It gives the new players a little more focus at the start which is something I think you need to have in the game at any stage. Hell even close to 6 years of playing for me I still need to keep focused on what I want to do and fly and do in game.
I understand how they want to give players more choices in what they could do. But my issue with it is that I still think they are addressing the wrong problem.
I do not believe that giving them lower levels of skills is going to reduce confusion - it is going to be all the same really. Whether the skill says level 1 or level 5 next to it is not going to make the skill system any easier or harder to learn.
Also, in the current system, you CAN move from "shooting people to mining" - I know many people who have done so themselves. But also in the current system, you can simply reroll and be VERY effective in that career, and save yourself weeks of training.
The main benefit of the new changes is the decreased training time for skills - which is great, dont get me wrong. This DOES give players a bit more leniency when they want to try a few different skills or careers.
This is a completely different issue from the one I discussed though - where new players cant really see a good representation of the game in their trial time. If you have ever had your friends do a trial to see if they liked the game, it is VERY LIKELY that at least some of them were discouraged - not because they couldnt try the other careers - because there is 3 character slots and you can make one of each. The reason the majority of players I know who tried the trial and gave up, was because of the problems I discussed in the last post.
I do not see why they do not just do the double SP at the beginning IN ADDITION to the current system. Enough time has passed since they improved character creation to the current point it is at now that another boost would not hurt anyone. This way players could actually feel USEFUL before their trial time is up, in addition to being able to experiment with the other careers. I really do not see a reason to take away anything from new players, even if your giving them something else (double SP) in return.
Honestly like I already mentioned , since you can make 3 characters, experimenting really isnt a problem. Hell, if a character with the new system from expansion wanted to try all 3 occupations, it would take more then 1.6mill to really be efficient. Where with the current system, they could instantly have 800k SP in each of them. It is simply more efficient to use the current system instead of waiting weeks for all those skills to train.
With the new changes, its basically like they are throwing away the current "new player experience" that they made not too long ago, in place of a new one. Instead of simply enhancing the current one.
If they use the system I proposed - with the starting occupations AND double SP - it would be the best of both worlds and address both problems for starting players, no?
There is only so new player friendly Eve can be made. it's just not the nature of the game. Eve requires learning time and by giving players too much too early they end up hurting themselves more. Like I said above. Let a new player have the skills to fly a battleship early and he will spend every penny he has to buy and fit it out since most people tend to think bigger is better all the time in Eve because it is in other games. Now that they put every penny into that ship they think they are ready to fight, well guess what ? They are most definitely not ready to fight, so what happens ? That ship and all that money goes bye bye real quick and where is that player left ? Hes left feeling really down on the game because he thinks he has the skills and he put all his money into what he thought was going to be a successful ship but it wasnt. People don't naturally assume they fucked. They have no idea how to fit out a ship because they haven't been playing long enough to understand each and every module and how they work best with each other and how to use that according to the ship they are flying.
The best way to help new players is by alleviating the overwhelming ammount of information that new players need to see and worry about early on. Let those new players ease into it instead being thrown in the deep end telling them to swim or drown. Let them understand how things work first. Eve is not a grind to level cap. Eve is a game about money and game knowledge. Money is easily gotten, just how easy is dependent upon the player and his intelligence. As an old player I rarely if ever go farm money anymore. It isnt because I have billions in my wallet either, hell I don't even have one bill in my wallet. But I do know how the game works and how to not waste money and most importantly I know how to not lose my ships. or atleast reduce how many ships I lose to a bare minimum. Last ship I lost was over 2 years ago, was a cheap tackle rifter which i basically suicide tckeled a curse just long enough for buddies to get there.
Bah I did not intend this post to be this long.
There is only so new player friendly Eve can be made. it's just not the nature of the game. Eve requires learning time and by giving players too much too early they end up hurting themselves more. Like I said above. Let a new player have the skills to fly a battleship early and he will spend every penny he has to buy and fit it out since most people tend to think bigger is better all the time in Eve because it is in other games. Now that they put every penny into that ship they think they are ready to fight, well guess what ? They are most definitely not ready to fight, so what happens ? That ship and all that money goes bye bye real quick and where is that player left ? Hes left feeling really down on the game because he thinks he has the skills and he put all his money into what he thought was going to be a successful ship but it wasnt. People don't naturally assume they fucked. They have no idea how to fit out a ship because they haven't been playing long enough to understand each and every module and how they work best with each other and how to use that according to the ship they are flying.
The best way to help new players is by alleviating the overwhelming ammount of information that new players need to see and worry about early on. Let those new players ease into it instead being thrown in the deep end telling them to swim or drown. Let them understand how things work first. Eve is not a grind to level cap. Eve is a game about money and game knowledge. Money is easily gotten, just how easy is dependent upon the player and his intelligence. As an old player I rarely if ever go farm money anymore. It isnt because I have billions in my wallet either, hell I don't even have one bill in my wallet. But I do know how the game works and how to not waste money and most importantly I know how to not lose my ships. or atleast reduce how many ships I lose to a bare minimum. Last ship I lost was over 2 years ago, was a cheap tackle rifter which i basically suicide tckeled a curse just long enough for buddies to get there.
Bah I did not intend this post to be this long.
When it comes to people attempting to fly a ship they dont have the skills for, that is an issue no matter what skill system is used. Whether you start with what you have now, or what their doing after patch, if someone raises their ship skills without the other skills it needs, this will happen.
Neither system will make this more or less of a problem.
What I proposed is simply a mixture of what they have now, and what they are going to do after the patch. Neither one is too much information compared to the other. Neither one is going to make chars "too effective", just simply effective.
The new system gives double SP to help players try stuff? Great. Give them that. The current system has 2-3 basic lvl 5's to get you started? Why not give them that too?
I dont know why anyone would argue against making new players baseline effective for something aside from tackling?
You mentioned yourself that you used a cheap rifter which you suicide tackled long enough for your buddies to get ther 2 years ago - would you want to suicide tackle for nearly a month straight? Because that is effectively what the new system is asking players to do.
Well i'll probably give the game a try again when this comes up. I tried this game a few times but never really get into it. Never had the patience to wait for skills to learn and not knowing what's important vs what is less is a pain.
First off, I am not quoting that long mess. Spyridonz, I completely disagree with your line of reasoning. You are not thinking through the new process, all you can think of is a bigger head start. That is absolutely NOT the answer.
Eve is big, there is no way around that. Giving a starting player more SP will not help one iota. All I can say is I am glad CCP understands the complexity of Eve and how to ease a new person into it. Your method would destroy any chance of a new person actually learning something about the game.
You don't learn by being given something, you learn by having to earn it. Exactly how CCP has designed the new player experience. New players should not be using tech 2 period. The old adage "fly what you can afford to lose' needs to be learned before they start using fancy equipment.
All your design would do is accelorate people out of the game. They have to learn that they can compete without tech 2, so when they do lose and they will lose, they can afford to get right back up and jump in again.
So save the typing, you are just wasting readers time attempting to show how ignorant of Eve you are.
The new system will teach new players how to play and what skills do rather than just heres more skillpoints so you can fly more expensive ships and lose them to learn. New way is much better for new players to keep frustrations down when losing a ship is frustrating enough as it is.
Yes, your proposed system would give new players more than enough rope to hang themselves so to speak. They will think they have the SPs to compete when the reality is they don't have the game play experience to know.
Some of those level 5 aren't needed depending on the path you pick at creation time now. Those level 5s can give a new player a false sense of "skill".
No one is arguing against making new players be more effective than just tackling. I am just saying players need to ease into it where you think that giving a new player more SP will make them more effective.
Yeah I used a cheap throw away rifter. A couple of friends we out roaming late one night so targets were scarce. Finally found a curse with neuts and drones so you can good bye rifter but I knew that before I even locked him. New players will learn to tackle and how to pvp properly better by losing tech 1 frigates for a month then try to afford battleships for a month.
Now like I said to you over in the thread in the Eve forums. New players need time to learn how the game works and they don't need more sps to give them a false sense of security. This new system will alleviate the overwhelming feeling new player have. And yes I do know that its the overwhelming feeling is the biggest issue for new players since I used to volunteer for STAR, CCPs help group. I talked to many new players as they entered the game in the chat channel and in 1 on 1 talks through the meet and greets we would contact new players and help them out.
It's not really a "bigger head start" that bothers me, as much as them reducing the start for new players.
What you are saying is only true for T2 ships, T2 weapons are a great addition because they are actually cheaper then the named pieces that they would be buying otherwise. Aside from T2 weapons, they are losing out on being able to immediately training Drone Interfacing which is the biggest damage boost Gallente players can get.
Giving a player cheaper weapons, and more drone damage, wont hurt their learning experience - it would just make them somewhat viable for a DPS role.
I can accept your disagreement with me, and I can accept that I may be wrong if everyone else feels otherwise, but I still stand by what I believe. You may believe that a "bigger head start will not help players learn more about the game", but I believe that making the player start with less will not help them learn about the game either. They still have to learn all of the same things, either way. T2 weapons or drone interfacing just makes it a bit easier on their pockets.
Also, being less effective to start hurts the fun factor of the game - which is what games are about anyway. If I was a new player, I would have more fun being somewhat effective for DPS rather then suicide tackling for weeks.
"When it comes to people attempting to fly a ship they dont have the skills for, that is an issue no matter what skill system is used. Whether you start with what you have now, or what their doing after patch, if someone raises their ship skills without the other skills it needs, this will happen.
Neither system will make this more or less of a problem.
What I proposed is simply a mixture of what they have now, and what they are going to do after the patch. Neither one is too much information compared to the other. Neither one is going to make chars "too effective", just simply effective.
The new system gives double SP to help players try stuff? Great. Give them that. The current system has 2-3 basic lvl 5's to get you started? Why not give them that too?
I dont know why anyone would argue against making new players baseline effective for something aside from tackling?
You mentioned yourself that you used a cheap rifter which you suicide tackled long enough for your buddies to get ther 2 years ago - would you want to suicide tackle for nearly a month straight? Because that is effectively what the new system is asking players to do.
The new system will teach new players how to play and what skills do rather than just heres more skillpoints so you can fly more expensive ships and lose them to learn. New way is much better for new players to keep frustrations down when losing a ship is frustrating enough as it is.
Yes, your proposed system would give new players more than enough rope to hang themselves so to speak. They will think they have the SPs to compete when the reality is they don't have the game play experience to know.
Some of those level 5 aren't needed depending on the path you pick at creation time now. Those level 5s can give a new player a false sense of "skill".
No one is arguing against making new players be more effective than just tackling. I am just saying players need to ease into it where you think that giving a new player more SP will make them more effective.
Yeah I used a cheap throw away rifter. A couple of friends we out roaming late one night so targets were scarce. Finally found a curse with neuts and drones so you can good bye rifter but I knew that before I even locked him. New players will learn to tackle and how to pvp properly better by losing tech 1 frigates for a month then try to afford battleships for a month.
Now like I said to you over in the thread in the Eve forums. New players need time to learn how the game works and they don't need more sps to give them a false sense of security. This new system will alleviate the overwhelming feeling new player have. And yes I do know that its the overwhelming feeling is the biggest issue for new players since I used to volunteer for STAR, CCPs help group. I talked to many new players as they entered the game in the chat channel and in 1 on 1 talks through the meet and greets we would contact new players and help them out."
Well, I dont think players would "feel they can compete", I just think they would feel a little more useful because they can play more then that suicide tackler role. A bunch of new players will not be able to team together and actually take out a larger target, but with the current system you can.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks I'm seeking for players to move up to BS's as fast as possible - the best advice for new players would still be to stick with frigates at first. You will just be able to spec in to them faster.
For PvP purposes, I would never advise a player even with a month or 2 play time to fly anything higher then a cruiser. Frigates alone wont teach you everything, but you can learn nearly everything you need to in frigates AND cruisers.
Any new player will be told that from various help sources, and hopefully the new player guides will tell them the same.
I respect your opinion, and again if everyone feels otherwise I admit I may be wrong, but I still disagree. I firmly believe that the issues you are discussing are issues with player knowledge, and can be more effectively addressed with appropriate guides and information for new players, rather then limiting their skills as a new player.
More SP or less SP will not help the player learn the game, what they need is information, because that is all that will help them. Information will help all the problems the first poster discussed, and the same with the issues you discussed. The only thing I believe the SP changes will effect is the fun factor for the players first few weeks.
Only time will tell for sure, because none of us posting are "new players". But I see many new players being even more bored and unhappy for those first few weeks.
"What you are saying is only true for T2 ships, T2 weapons are a great addition because they are actually cheaper then the named pieces that they would be buying otherwise"
Ah now it comes out, you are one of those people that took the trial and went no further and think you understand the game. Well sorry to break your bubble but T2 weapons and equipment are far pricer than you think. Something month old players most definitely should NOT be using. Remember the adage, fly what you can afford to lose.
Even when I go pvping I more often than not load up a rupture with T1 weapons rather than T2. Sure, if you are going to fit officer level equipment it is expensive, but only the rich run around with those.
Next time pick a subject where you can at least bring some knowledge to bear.
Umm, I have 3 accounts with the youngest being nearly a year old. If you assume things you risk making yourself look stupid.
Also, if you read what I actually said, youll notice I said named pieces are more expensive then T2.
Oh, so you think T2s are more expensive? I think somebody needs to check prices. These are the current prices in Rens right now, so I'll use the wepaon types Minmatar use since those are the local weapon types most used in this area.
Small Projectile Turrets - Light 'Scout's are currently 700k. Tier 2 are 350k.
Standard Missile Launchers - Arbalests are currently 4.5mill. T2 are 338k.
These T2 pieces are easily affordable as well, in PvE w/ salvaging, or in PvP due to the much larger rewards for lvl 1 FW missions.
Plus I also named Drone Interfacing, which is a huge dps increase that is basically free.
Lets move on to Mediums - although new players wont be using them, lets just do a comparison of named to T2 prices, since you are acting like you know so much more then I do.
Med Projectiles - 220mm Scouts are 6.8mill. T2's are 1.1mil.
Heavy Launchers - Arbalest 17mill. T2 948k.
Those T2 pieces could easily be afforded, even for PvP usage. While the Named pieces, are VERY expensive, and you will only see them on mission setups.
Before you try to flame, you should log in and check the prices.
Duno what is with the ppl here lately, Eve is typically though of as a game that has a community which offers alot of help for new players. I'm posting here with the goal of helping new players and providing constructive discussion, and instead of people giving an argument and providing some evidence that what I am saying is incorrect, instead people are trying to flame me directly. Why waste your time in a topic about a rookie revamp?
Especially when you are wrong. That does not make me look bad, just yourself.
"Next time pick a subject where you can at least bring some knowledge to bear." - Practice what you preach.
Amazing how people can play a game yet be so completely ignorant about it. Most T2 items are over a million each, that is something early players should not even think about. Siting Jita prices is dumb, most young players do not have the funds to make the long journey there. T2 prices elsewhere are much higher.
The most important thing in Eve is the mantra "don't fly what you can't afford to replace". If you can't figure that out then you are a hopeless cause.
That is why you complaints and ideas are pure nonsense. You do not understand the game for all your profession of knowledge.
Every T2 item I listed IS new player friendly. Furthermore, they are 2 of the 4 possible T2 weapons that new players can get with the current system. The other 2 are lasers and hybrids which are NOT local to the area. We are having a discussion about new players and the possible T2 weapons they could get - therefore the most important ones to this discussion are the ones that they could actually get as new players, which were the ones I listed. Which backs up my original point which you claim was wrong- that being able to use those t2 weapons early on gives them effectiveness better then the nameds AND saves them loads of money compared to the named versions.
I did NOT list Jita prices, and I said that in my post, but you obviously did not comprehend that part - and this system is local to the region new players start in, inside Minmatar space.
Plus, all of the small weapon prices I listed are WELL in the range of being able to be afforded by new players, and I even listed why in my post.
The reason why your arguments are pure nonsense - low reading comprehension.
You would think you learned that the first time. But some people never learn...
Obvious your lack of comprehension of Eve makes continuing this thread useless. You really should take some course on how to communicate your thoughts as your posts lack any kind of continuity. Throwing out random disconnected thoughts in a thread just makes the rest of us skip it after the first couple sentences.
Meanwhile the rest of us will glady accept what CCP is doing with the new player experience. They, at least, do understand how to make it better.
Must be the dumbest thing I've ever read in regards to eve-online.
Not only are new players going to have the double amount, they'll also get to chose how to spend it.