I reckon he already knows and has seen the video , He just seems to be trying to bait people into posting it to get them banned
Oh, I don't doubt it. Still, it's valuable information for people to have, so telling them how to see the evidence of a speedhack at work for themselves while still following the Rules of Conduct here is key.
Hacks like this destroy a game faster than anything else, especially if the devs don't stamp them out or otherwise put an end to that kind of cheating. I don't know how much success AV will have, though, since much of this game is apparently client side.
Aventuein have had 4 months to stomp these hacks out..! WTF are you talking about! This sh!t was reported during beta. Do you think these companies just now made the hacks and developed a website..?
How ignorant are you...? Aventurine shut down many threads concerning this in December.. it's now MARCH.
Aventuein have had 4 months to stomp these hacks out..! WTF are you talking about! This sh!t was reported during beta. Do you think these companies just now made the hacks and developed a website..? How ignorant are you...? Aventurine shut down many threads concerning this in December.. it's now MARCH.
Easy, tiger. I'm not defending Aventurine in the least. Letting hacks and cheats like this run rampant for months on end is insanely stupid. So is having so much of your game client side that these hacks are possible in the first place.
This kind of stuff is game breaking, even among crowds that like PvP. It's one thing for folks to go up against players in a reasonably fair fight. At that point, the winner is legitimately decided based on skill. It's another thing entirely, however, when a bunch of asshole hackers cheat their way to the top, or give themselves advantages no one else can hope to compete with. Even other PvP players will get tired of shenanigans like that and will leave.
Honestly, if these hacks aren't fixed and the people who use them banned, it's only going to get worse down the line.
Seems like they forgot the 2 first rules of MMORPG making. 1. Never trust the client.
2. Do not give the client any more information than it absolutely needs.
They likely didn't "forget" this, but most probably they had to sweep it under the rug. With no instancing, they pretty much have to leave a lot to the client. There are speed hacks and teleport hacks for WoW as well, but they're able to keep it in check (at least reasonably so) with Warden + GM activity (and maybe some behind-the-scenes stuff, what do I know).
If you want to be paranoid about the client, it's going to cost you performance wise, and with their ambitious server goals they couldn't afford that.
wow thats just sad.. very sad.. and if the devs are OK with this? foook that sheeet.. i'm waiting for another game.
really sucks because I was looking forward to DFo.. I might just wait for some sort of official response to this.. or if they say nothing at all.. there is my answer.. NEXT GAME!
Hax will destroy DF. In other games, where loss is not great, hax would frustrate you at most. I mean, If I get killed in PvP by a speedhacker in WoW, yeah id be pissed but I would just move on. No loss other then time. In DF, I lose everything I carry. I may have just fought a tough battle and kicked ass, i got phat loot on me hurrying to the bank... BANG... dead by macro spammer speedhacker. Lost everything. Not just time lost but items.
This will make people uninstall after first hack encounter.
Wow, that's the most professional cheater site I've seen. The video was interesting, no stam loss, 3 different run speeds, physics alterations...wow. They claim it is completely undetectable (except by other players I suppose).
No game can survive with people able to manipulate the game to that extent.
Well, how most of these speed hacks, etc work is by altering information in the data packets exchanged between the client, and the server. Basically, these programs change the values in the packet, causing the server to interpret where the character is differently. Basically, unless a Dev or GM is watching the speedhacker, it's pretty much impossible for the server to recognize something is wrong.. There is soooo much information going back and forth, it would be extremely hard to go through every single bit of data in each packet to check for any anomalies that might point to speedhacking, not to mention there are so many different ways to change the data and get the same results, the devs would have to know how exactly this one programs achieves its results to be able to detect it.. hence why these programs are usually quite hard to detect. They must not of put any, or very much, encryption on the packets stored clientside for them to be able to hack the client so quickly. This is one of the reasons most online game developers tend to try to keep important packet exchanges serverside, rather then clientside. There are many articles out there that can really explain things much better in depth, and some of the creative ways developers are coming up to thwart it.
Wouldn't the only proper course of action be an in-game anti-cheat that prevents things from attaching to the process? Or they could make the packet sending/receiving be done through several other processes that are hidden, while it wouldn't be permenent solution; it'd surely slow hackers down quite a deal.
Sigh these are not hacks they are MODS! No diffrent than what people download and use for WoW! They just make the game more enjoyable for some people, I swear all you people just make up this stuff to bash DarkFail.
DOAC is still the MMO I judge other games by, My first and still my favorite.
NO WAY!! AV did not fix the speed hacking that got worse day after day in closed beta?
I know quite a few people who like me were part of closed beta and refused to pre-order simple because we knew AV was incapable of stoping the exploits being used in their inferior product.
Sigh these are not hacks they are MODS! No diffrent than what people download and use for WoW! They just make the game more enjoyable for some people, I swear all you people just make up this stuff to bash DarkFail.
Those are indeed hacks that give an unfair speed advantage to a player. It's unfortunate that the Darkfall client is heavily packed client-side, it really is.
With little or no GM presence it is almost impossible to detect. I don't see how Aventurine can fix this, I really don't.
Sigh these are not hacks they are MODS! No diffrent than what people download and use for WoW! They just make the game more enjoyable for some people, I swear all you people just make up this stuff to bash DarkFail.
Those are indeed hacks that give an unfair speed advantage to a player. It's unfortunate that the Darkfall client is heavily packed client-side, it really is.
With little or no GM presence it is almost impossible to detect. I don't see how Aventurine can fix this, I really don't.
Your just a DarkFail hater, these are not hacks, if there were hacks there would be videos on the net yet there are none! You just don't want to admit that DF alows features in it's game that your carebear game never thought of!!!!
DarkFail is here to stay, Just deal with it and go back to WoW!
DOAC is still the MMO I judge other games by, My first and still my favorite.
Wouldn't the only proper course of action be an in-game anti-cheat that prevents things from attaching to the process? Or they could make the packet sending/receiving be done through several other processes that are hidden, while it wouldn't be permenent solution; it'd surely slow hackers down quite a deal.
I don't think you can hide the sending/receiving of packets, as they can be interrupted at the driver level. A client-side routine scanning outside processes seems much more viable, but it needs to be programmed and tested first, which will take a while given the scant manpower they have available.
This has been a problem in almost every major online game in the past. This is not unique to Darkfall! No I'm not defending the game or the comapany. I pretty much don't care what happens, well atleast at this point.
The oldschool speedhack tool was called Gear, if I remember right. Pretty much what it did was mess with the timing on your computer, so it would make the whole game run faster.
One other thing. I highly doubt that any large scale MMO actually corrects movement on the server side for the user who is controling the char. It gets the info from the client, then corrects the other ppl's clients to show where that person is instead of where it projects them being.
The way they dealt with this in DAoC was start logging locations of where people's chars were if they suspected someone of speedhacking. Then they could figure out if the char could actually travel that far that fast.
Pretty much they started cracking down so hard on it, people figured out it wasn't worth it to risk their account. This is the same approach that Aventurine should take, atleast for now.
Sigh these are not hacks they are MODS! No diffrent than what people download and use for WoW! They just make the game more enjoyable for some people, I swear all you people just make up this stuff to bash DarkFail.
Those are indeed hacks that give an unfair speed advantage to a player. It's unfortunate that the Darkfall client is heavily packed client-side, it really is.
With little or no GM presence it is almost impossible to detect. I don't see how Aventurine can fix this, I really don't.
Your just a DarkFail hater, these are not hacks, if there were hacks there would be videos on the net yet there are none! You just don't want to admit that DF alows features in it's game that your carebear game never thought of!!!!
DarkFail is here to stay, Just deal with it and go back to WoW!
fine here is the damn vid....dont care if i get banned
What Link? You have no proof! Darkfail 4life
DOAC is still the MMO I judge other games by, My first and still my favorite.
The speedhack is useful for the cheaters... but imagine the teleport included. Seems like you can teleport to any coords in the whole Darkfall World. Instant travelling!
The speedhack is useful for the cheaters... but imagine the teleport included. Seems like you can teleport to any coords in the whole Darkfall World. Instant travelling!
I thought about it and you're actually right. This is something that can be useful for all Darkfall players. Instead of running across the map for 8 hours, they can just teleport to their destination within seconds.
Also, imagine how efficient AFK macroing will be if this hack is incorporated? Get the wood, port to bank, unload, port back to tree, get the wood, port to bank... You can probably finance 3 guild cities overnight.
Edit: after further consideration, Aventurine should just license this hack from damncheaters (or whatever they are called) and add it's functionality to the client. If macroing is the only sure fire way to get ahead, why not make it less painful for the players? Also, this way everyone will be on even footing in PVP. After all, if everyone is speedhacking, then no one is cheating.
wow thats just sad.. very sad.. and if the devs are OK with this? foook that sheeet.. i'm waiting for another game.
Of course the devs aren't okay with it.
...
I'm not so sure about that. There is another post somewhere (can't find seem it again for some reason) that mentions the hack was stickyed on the beta forums.. and that Tacos said it was just a mod, and not a bannable offense. Of course the person that said that might be full of BS, but AV has lost a lot of credibility lately, so I don't think I would put it past them.
wow thats just sad.. very sad.. and if the devs are OK with this? foook that sheeet.. i'm waiting for another game.
Of course the devs aren't okay with it.
...
I'm not so sure about that. There is another post somewhere (can't find seem it again for some reason) that mentions the hack was stickyed on the beta forums.. and that Tacos said it was just a mod, and not a bannable offense. Of course the person that said that might be full of BS, but AV has lost a lot of credibility lately, so I don't think I would put it past them.
He was full of crap. There are only two stickied posts in the Advanced Discusion forum, neither of which have to do with the hacks. It wasn't stickied and many of the forumfallers are pissed that people keep posting the links
Comments
Oh, I don't doubt it. Still, it's valuable information for people to have, so telling them how to see the evidence of a speedhack at work for themselves while still following the Rules of Conduct here is key.
Hacks like this destroy a game faster than anything else, especially if the devs don't stamp them out or otherwise put an end to that kind of cheating. I don't know how much success AV will have, though, since much of this game is apparently client side.
Aventuein have had 4 months to stomp these hacks out..! WTF are you talking about! This sh!t was reported during beta. Do you think these companies just now made the hacks and developed a website..?
How ignorant are you...? Aventurine shut down many threads concerning this in December.. it's now MARCH.
____________________________
Seems like they forgot the 2 first rules of MMORPG making.
1. Never trust the client.
2. Do not give the client any more information than it absolutely needs.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Easy, tiger. I'm not defending Aventurine in the least. Letting hacks and cheats like this run rampant for months on end is insanely stupid. So is having so much of your game client side that these hacks are possible in the first place.
This kind of stuff is game breaking, even among crowds that like PvP. It's one thing for folks to go up against players in a reasonably fair fight. At that point, the winner is legitimately decided based on skill. It's another thing entirely, however, when a bunch of asshole hackers cheat their way to the top, or give themselves advantages no one else can hope to compete with. Even other PvP players will get tired of shenanigans like that and will leave.
Honestly, if these hacks aren't fixed and the people who use them banned, it's only going to get worse down the line.
They likely didn't "forget" this, but most probably they had to sweep it under the rug. With no instancing, they pretty much have to leave a lot to the client. There are speed hacks and teleport hacks for WoW as well, but they're able to keep it in check (at least reasonably so) with Warden + GM activity (and maybe some behind-the-scenes stuff, what do I know).
If you want to be paranoid about the client, it's going to cost you performance wise, and with their ambitious server goals they couldn't afford that.
wow thats just sad.. very sad.. and if the devs are OK with this? foook that sheeet.. i'm waiting for another game.
really sucks because I was looking forward to DFo.. I might just wait for some sort of official response to this.. or if they say nothing at all.. there is my answer.. NEXT GAME!
---
Xen of Onslaught
Hax will destroy DF. In other games, where loss is not great, hax would frustrate you at most. I mean, If I get killed in PvP by a speedhacker in WoW, yeah id be pissed but I would just move on. No loss other then time. In DF, I lose everything I carry. I may have just fought a tough battle and kicked ass, i got phat loot on me hurrying to the bank... BANG... dead by macro spammer speedhacker. Lost everything. Not just time lost but items.
This will make people uninstall after first hack encounter.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Wow, that's the most professional cheater site I've seen. The video was interesting, no stam loss, 3 different run speeds, physics alterations...wow. They claim it is completely undetectable (except by other players I suppose).
No game can survive with people able to manipulate the game to that extent.
Of course the devs aren't okay with it.
If this thing is real, then this sucks.
Such a great game, would be a shame for it to be ruined by hacks. I hope they can figure out how to block it.
What if they do like FPS games and run that program that detects and shuts down 3rd party software?
people dont relize aventurine can see when someone is moving faster than what there supposed to
There is a mode to run at normal sprint speed, but with no stam loss.
Well, how most of these speed hacks, etc work is by altering information in the data packets exchanged between the client, and the server. Basically, these programs change the values in the packet, causing the server to interpret where the character is differently. Basically, unless a Dev or GM is watching the speedhacker, it's pretty much impossible for the server to recognize something is wrong.. There is soooo much information going back and forth, it would be extremely hard to go through every single bit of data in each packet to check for any anomalies that might point to speedhacking, not to mention there are so many different ways to change the data and get the same results, the devs would have to know how exactly this one programs achieves its results to be able to detect it.. hence why these programs are usually quite hard to detect. They must not of put any, or very much, encryption on the packets stored clientside for them to be able to hack the client so quickly. This is one of the reasons most online game developers tend to try to keep important packet exchanges serverside, rather then clientside. There are many articles out there that can really explain things much better in depth, and some of the creative ways developers are coming up to thwart it.
Wouldn't the only proper course of action be an in-game anti-cheat that prevents things from attaching to the process? Or they could make the packet sending/receiving be done through several other processes that are hidden, while it wouldn't be permenent solution; it'd surely slow hackers down quite a deal.
Sigh these are not hacks they are MODS! No diffrent than what people download and use for WoW! They just make the game more enjoyable for some people, I swear all you people just make up this stuff to bash DarkFail.
NO WAY!! AV did not fix the speed hacking that got worse day after day in closed beta?
I know quite a few people who like me were part of closed beta and refused to pre-order simple because we knew AV was incapable of stoping the exploits being used in their inferior product.
Those are indeed hacks that give an unfair speed advantage to a player. It's unfortunate that the Darkfall client is heavily packed client-side, it really is.
With little or no GM presence it is almost impossible to detect. I don't see how Aventurine can fix this, I really don't.
Tecmo Bowl.
Speed hacks and teleports are only fixable before you start coding. They are stuck with them now.
Those are indeed hacks that give an unfair speed advantage to a player. It's unfortunate that the Darkfall client is heavily packed client-side, it really is.
With little or no GM presence it is almost impossible to detect. I don't see how Aventurine can fix this, I really don't.
Your just a DarkFail hater, these are not hacks, if there were hacks there would be videos on the net yet there are none! You just don't want to admit that DF alows features in it's game that your carebear game never thought of!!!!
DarkFail is here to stay, Just deal with it and go back to WoW!
I don't think you can hide the sending/receiving of packets, as they can be interrupted at the driver level. A client-side routine scanning outside processes seems much more viable, but it needs to be programmed and tested first, which will take a while given the scant manpower they have available.
This has been a problem in almost every major online game in the past. This is not unique to Darkfall! No I'm not defending the game or the comapany. I pretty much don't care what happens, well atleast at this point.
The oldschool speedhack tool was called Gear, if I remember right. Pretty much what it did was mess with the timing on your computer, so it would make the whole game run faster.
One other thing. I highly doubt that any large scale MMO actually corrects movement on the server side for the user who is controling the char. It gets the info from the client, then corrects the other ppl's clients to show where that person is instead of where it projects them being.
The way they dealt with this in DAoC was start logging locations of where people's chars were if they suspected someone of speedhacking. Then they could figure out if the char could actually travel that far that fast.
Pretty much they started cracking down so hard on it, people figured out it wasn't worth it to risk their account. This is the same approach that Aventurine should take, atleast for now.
Those are indeed hacks that give an unfair speed advantage to a player. It's unfortunate that the Darkfall client is heavily packed client-side, it really is.
With little or no GM presence it is almost impossible to detect. I don't see how Aventurine can fix this, I really don't.
Your just a DarkFail hater, these are not hacks, if there were hacks there would be videos on the net yet there are none! You just don't want to admit that DF alows features in it's game that your carebear game never thought of!!!!
DarkFail is here to stay, Just deal with it and go back to WoW!
fine here is the damn vid....dont care if i get banned
What Link? You have no proof! Darkfail 4life
The speedhack is useful for the cheaters... but imagine the teleport included. Seems like you can teleport to any coords in the whole Darkfall World. Instant travelling!
I thought about it and you're actually right. This is something that can be useful for all Darkfall players. Instead of running across the map for 8 hours, they can just teleport to their destination within seconds.
Also, imagine how efficient AFK macroing will be if this hack is incorporated? Get the wood, port to bank, unload, port back to tree, get the wood, port to bank... You can probably finance 3 guild cities overnight.
Edit: after further consideration, Aventurine should just license this hack from damncheaters (or whatever they are called) and add it's functionality to the client. If macroing is the only sure fire way to get ahead, why not make it less painful for the players? Also, this way everyone will be on even footing in PVP. After all, if everyone is speedhacking, then no one is cheating.
Of course the devs aren't okay with it.
...I'm not so sure about that. There is another post somewhere (can't find seem it again for some reason) that mentions the hack was stickyed on the beta forums.. and that Tacos said it was just a mod, and not a bannable offense. Of course the person that said that might be full of BS, but AV has lost a lot of credibility lately, so I don't think I would put it past them.
---
Xen of Onslaught
Of course the devs aren't okay with it.
...I'm not so sure about that. There is another post somewhere (can't find seem it again for some reason) that mentions the hack was stickyed on the beta forums.. and that Tacos said it was just a mod, and not a bannable offense. Of course the person that said that might be full of BS, but AV has lost a lot of credibility lately, so I don't think I would put it past them.
He was full of crap. There are only two stickied posts in the Advanced Discusion forum, neither of which have to do with the hacks. It wasn't stickied and many of the forumfallers are pissed that people keep posting the links
~Ripper
wee! who remembers the PKK (Player Killer Kit) used in Meridian59? Good times baby!