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Soloing in an MMO, what's the point?
triprunner
Member Posts: 169
What is it with devs nowadays? MMO is for grouping and having fun together and i haven't seen a game apart from LOTRO that actually rewards grouping...
Few months back i got around to play WoW trial to finally see what's the big fuss about it. I was pleased by the smoothness of graphics, cartoony looks, great UI, quests, etc. but the thing that surprised me the most was that although others players were running around not one would group with me... Then my mate told me that WoW doesn't really reward grouping as it's splits rewardsand xp between the members of the group.
Then i tried EQ2 and guess what? Pretty much the same situation... Vanguard wasn't better either. Not to mention Tabula Rasa where you were able to solo entire game (even instances).
All i hear on forums is solo this, solo that. Frack that. Even in WAR PvE questing is a solo affair, although fair enough for everything else grouping is essential and with the best LFG system to date.
Now i hear the upcoming SWTOR MMO will be mostly soloable with few bits and bobs where you get to group and then back to solo grind again...
I mean look at EVE or Darkfall... Without grouping you're pretty much dead in the water (or space) in those games.
What are your thoughts? Is soloing killing MMO's and what they're about?
Comments
I solo a lot due to time constraints.
I do try to group up for things whenever I have the time, although its usually in the weekends only.
Play the way you want to play.
Tyrants.
well the bigest problem i see now.. that you joined games few years from release.. wow grouping have benefits.. there used to be lots of grp quests. group mini zones.. and there is bonus exp if your grp is 3 or more ppl.. i think or was it 4 anyway,
80% of that group content in 1-60 zones got nerfed to solo content.. well i cant blame them.. there arent that much ppl 5 years after release.. as it was back then, in starting zones
Solo play rules, people want instant rewards, no real death penalty.
Why group? hehe
I would have only green mobs soloable, yes that right!
I hate solo play, mmorpg's are meant to be fun group things, having a laug etc.
Until the death penalties go up, grouping wont increase / happen.
Death means nothing so why bother ehh?
sad but true!
Here's the deal. Some people like to solo. Some don't. Your job is to find the ones who like to group up and play with them. Stop asking for devs to make grouping mandatory.
The fact of the matter is, if grouping were fun and rewarding, more people would do it. IMO, grouping is almost always a chore. It takes time to get a group together, and then there's always that guy who goes AFK every few minutes, and then there's the person who decides to drop from the group mid way through a quest. Blah! I find playing solo while chatting with people in open chat to be much more fun.
Oh, and forced grouping games are the most anti-sandbox games out there. The last thing I want or need is a dev deciding how I should play and what fun is. Screw that.
I think it's important to have SOME solo content, after all, you can't guarantee a group will be available every time you want to play. I do think a lot of devs are putting too much thought into solo content though. It'd be nice even if you could reach the level cap entirely solo, to have some grouping system that will make grouping up for it a better choice. For instance, have some kind of exp system that rewards based on how many mobs you take at a time, or rewards you more for taking something higher than yourself that only a group could manage.
I like the way LotRO handles group quests, as there are some that are designed for a small group, some for a full group, and of course, there's the raids when you reach the level for it. However, if you decide to group for the solo quests, there's no feeling that you're being punished for doing so. It's very enjoyable in a group, and you can still feel the same, if not greater, sense of progress. It's not perfect by any means, but I do think they've got more right than many other game devs lately.
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Currently playing: Rift
former player of: DAoC, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, SWG (pre-NGE), WoW, Warhammer online, LotR:O
aoc used to have good bunch of grouping at launch.. due fact that 60-70 missed quests and you just grinded , so getting into grp , slaughtering mobs was revarding..
war probably had most unrevarding and , even penalties for grouping while questing..
exp was terrible.. quests were easy. and most of the time you go 3x faster solo than with 2 + ppl
apart obviously public quests.. but most of those ppl wouldnt even join grp..
How could grouping possibly be fun and rewarding, if you can solo? That makes no sense. It's like you're saying, hey, we lowered the basketball hoop to 3 feet, because not everyone likes to make a hard shot. But if you want it to be harder, just close your eyes. See, everyone can play how they want!
Uh, no, that's retarded. If I can solo, the basketball hoop is 3 feet off the ground. Making a group in that situation would be closing my eyes. When will you figure out those ain't the same?
I want the baketball hoop 10 feet high. I do not want you to lower it. That means you can't make it easy for me to solo. That would be lowering the hoop. Get it?
The most nonsensical part of your post, is you're insisting on ruining my group game, then telling me I can "play how I want". WTF? The last thing I want is solo whiners ruining the game, so stop saying a dev is not deciding how we play if they make it solo friendly.
It HAS to work both ways. If you make ti solo friendly you've ruined my grouping game, so a DEV has decided how I should play and waht is fun.
I don't want to be able to easily solo the game, that ruins the game for me. screw that.
I recommend FFXI to you OP. Almost no solo content aside from crafting and farming. You can group to your heart's content.
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW
There's a difference between a good grouping game, and a crappy Asian grinder that's a grouping game. EQ, DAoC, good grouping games. FFXI, crappy Asian grinder grouping game.
games need to bring back downtime ... that was the reason people grouped back in the day not exp bonuses. because after you soloed a even con mob for crap exp there would be a couple minute downtime to regain your power/health. so in order to level at a decent rate you got in a group so you didnt have that downtime.
now you kill an elite solo that takes your HP/mana down to near nothing and you can be back in the fray within 20 seconds or so.
Bring back DOWNTIME!
Nonsense, loads of people play solo because they want to play solo in a game that feels alive because there are real people in it, even if they don't interact much with those other people.
Personally, sometimes I like to solo and feel like an adventurer wandering a big world, sometimes I like to group and chat away. Each to his own.
Would you like to link me a definition of "mmo" that states mmos are "ONLY" for grouping?
I agree a lot of games need to improve the benefits of grouping, most games I just avoid groups because I can do everything quicker and get more exp from it if I got at it alone.
I find grouping with friends fun and rewarding no matter what we do together. But then again I don't view MMOs as a competition or sport. It isn't like saying lower the hoop to 3 feet. It's like saying you need 3 hoops, one 3 feet, one 6 feet, and one 10 feet! If you want to use an analogy how about card games? Some you can play solo, others with a friend. Still others are more fun with a group. Some people just like solitaire.
I want variety in my MMOs. I want group, duo, and solo content. I want combat and non-combat play options. I don't want to be stuck doing the same type of thing all the time. The games that give me options will be more likely to get my money. Lots of people seem to feel the same way. I don't see many MMOs with only grouping, and I don't see many with nothing but solo content either.
Unfortunately for people who enjoy grouping, Dev's figured out that one reason many folks avoided early MMO's was the forced group (and how it limits the fun of a player who can't devote the time to it)
So many games are a hybrid these days, WOW, LotRO & even EVE are good examples. All 3 games have lots of solo content, but also contain a raiding component with extra rewards for those with the desire to devote the time to it. (In EVE its massive fleet battles)
Doubtful any developer these days would be willing to limit their sales potential to make a mostly group based game.
I recall DAOC when it was first released was almost entirely group oriented, however with each expansion they kept adding new classes that could solo very effectively. (like the necromancer)
Solo content is here to stay, (as it should) and what developers should continue to do is offer deeper group based content, especially much earlier than end game. (WOW used to be good at this back in the early days)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
depends on the meaning of MMORPG.
your opinion is that MMORPG are meant to group players up and do quests together.
For me it is a game with more ppl on a server then the average 1-20 FPS server in a RPG setting.
It's just that most producers these days use the 'usual' group quests setting to program their games like WOW that makes ppl think it's the normal standard for a game.
Personally, I hate grouping, I dont like the "healer-agro controller-tank-dps" setup of most MMORPGs. I play MOST mmorpgs as a 'lone stranger' doing my stuff. I will interact if I have to, but preferrably dont.
For me, a MMORPG is just a server with a big load of players in a interactive world, nothing more. it doesn't say anything about having to group up with players.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Would you like to link me a definition of "mmo" that states mmos are "ONLY" for grouping?
Well the multiplayer part does not state "NO solo" if that's what you are getting at but multiplayer games has always stood for playing with others. If you solo you are essentially playing by yourself which really isn't multiplayer is it? I mean if you buy a game in a store lets say CoD and you read on the back "Supports Multiplayer" is your first thought..hey i get to run around shooting barrels on an empty map?. Granted CoD is not a MMO but the word multiplayer is borrowed from a whole host of games where you are supposed to play with others.
I like to do my own thing most of the time but with the experience of a live environment. Knowing that the toon running in front of me is another player. I chat online...help out when I can and group occasionally. It is beyond me why some people think this is the "wrong" way to play an mmo...or that there is only one way to play an mmo. There are lots of kids at the playground and all of them do not feel like playing "cops and robbers" all the time...some just like their corner of the sandbox every once and a while. In an mmo...many players can play at the same time...that doesn't mean they have to play with or against each other..at all times. What's ironic..is it is probably the people that want strict grouping in mmo's that can not "group" irl. Just really throwing that out there...let me know if that is/isn't the case. I mean ..in reality...I 'm not with a group of people everywhere I go..I don't check my friends list when I take a leak...I like to go to the movies with people or alone...If everyone is busy when I want to go see a movie...should I just not see the movie?...wait until the dvd release? I do a lot of things alone in this life..just the way it has turned out...but i still like people..like to know they're still out there..still breathing. Unlike Will Smith..I am not legend.
I have a problem with people that think other players should play like them or force people into a certain play situation or GTFO.
I believe a Game should be soloed the entire time you are playing if one wants BUT and its a big but soloing should be challenging, slower progression and you would be at a disadvantage to group players.
I highlighted something I didn't agree with in your OP, EvE is very much a solo game also. It kind of follows how I feel soloing should be. Its slow, it's something you can do but its not the best way to do things, in eve you can solo pvp but your targets are limited and you need to use your head before you engage.
Eve isn't solo friendly but all that means is soloing is hard and some people like that challenge. To just take away a soloists gameplay from a MMO would be wrong imo. I soloed in UO, EQ, SWG, EvE, Ryzom and Shadowbane so people that say these are group only games are wrong.
Now What I hate is when a MMO is too solo friendly by making a MMO too solo friendly you limit people that like groups.
Games like WoW that actually gimp you if you group up are just stupid and wrong.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Would you like to link me a definition of "mmo" that states mmos are "ONLY" for grouping?
Well the multiplayer part does not state "NO solo" if that's what you are getting at but multiplayer games has always stood for playing with others. If you solo you are essentially playing by yourself which really isn't multiplayer is it? I mean if you buy a game in a store lets say CoD and you read on the back "Supports Multiplayer" is your first thought..hey i get to run around shooting barrels on an empty map?. Granted CoD is not a MMO but the word multiplayer is borrowed from a whole host of games where you are supposed to play with others.
You can still play with others that you are not grouped with. And it is still Multiplayer even if you are doing it solo. And remember that it says "multiplayer" Nothing to do with grouping. Basically you are saying that you cannot play with others unless you are grouped. Which is completely wrong. To take it a step further... From your definition, you should have to sit in a lobby someplace until you find a group before you can enter the game. Because you cannot be in an MMO without a group. Right?
Wow don't really get interesting till you get to endgame. At that point, any item that worth it grain of salt would required you to either participate in group combat or sink an enormous time and resources to obtaim the item. I don't really understand your grip about vanguard though, solo play for vanguard is kind of annoying. After level 20, solo become for pain in the butt even for the specialized solo class like necro.
With all that said, solo is so emphasize is because as game progress, there will be less and less people in lower area. So when a person log in the game and grouping is the only option, many would then waste a good 30 or even more just looking for group. Further more, in the middle of a instance/dungend/quest/whatever and someone leave, well the entire party is then put on hold again till they find a suitable replacement. Grouping while it is very enjoyable when you can actually get one. It become a huge problem on low populated area.
I think that the reason above and most definately alot more is the reason why many developer now put so much emphasis on solo gameplay. So like other said before me, solo gameplay is become ever more popular is because people want instant gratification. When I log into any game, I want to hit the ground running to be able to have something to do right off that bat and not sitting there for 20 minute spamming "DPS LFG for _ _ _ _ _ ".
Multiplayer really means being in the same game as other players. It means playing amongst other players.
I like soloing and grouping. Both can be rewarding and complete failures. The reason I prefer to solo in an MMO versus a single player game is that I like being in a living world. Even while soloing, I interact with other players.
I believe grouping can make a world less alive (bear with me). While soloing, I am more aware of others around me and I will interact accordingly. While in a group, I am focused on the other group members and usually ignore those outside my group.
Anyway, my point is that soloing is an important part of an MMO, and still fits within the multplayer idea.
~Grayknyght
Another point that there is two types of grouping expierence... 1. Where your grouped with friends you know in RL or in a good guild where you can realtively easily find people to group with when your time allows to play. These groups also offer usually non competitive co-operative over rewards found during the quest. There is usually a set rules already established for quest rewards and items dropped so there is no arguing or bad feelings. Your reputation is more important and most people in this case like to keep it postitive so there is less fighting with in the group.
Then there is number 2. The Pick-Up group. this where in my opinion where 99 percent of the negative expierence is seen in grouping. Having to try to fill up the class spots, the famous need before greed argument because every one has different views on this. Every one has different ways they run groups and you get clashes of opinions. Then we even dont need to go into people that quit in the middle once they have what they need. or the ones that need to afk alot, or plain do thier own thing runnning off to get that ore or what ever.
So just keep in mind not every one has access to expierence number 1. And after a few number 2's.. solo is not such a bad thing to at least try to get something accomplished for your monthly fee. So offering both in an MMO is important and equal.
I dont think its fair to try to force people to have to play a certain way, but i do admit that people should do research on a game before buying because buying a game that is plainly designed to grouping then whining about not being able to solo is silly.
I dont see a point either