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I got into an argument with my boss today
Vhayne
Member UncommonPosts: 632
Well, it really wasn't an argument, but I'm sure according to him, it was.
Bit of history first. I work as a copier tech, and I'm the best (as far as statistics and bonuses are concerned) in my state, in regards to my company of over a hundred techs. Even though I've held this status since I started working for this company, they refuse to increase my pay to the level of a "senior tech". See, I've been doing this for 6 years. So I'm the "least experienced" tech in the entire company. But I kill everyone every month in bonuses (directly related to performance). But I let that go, despite my managers all saying I more than deserve it.
Now times are rough in the world, and wages are frozen for the company. Of course, since this news, I haven't said a word about it, and have just been thankful I still have a job. Don't misunderstand me though. I'm an extremely friendly worker, and always do as I'l told. However, I do have opinions that keep to myself most of the time.
About 2.5 years ago, my family bought our first house. We searched and searched, and tried to find a house that would be in a central location to my territory that I worked in. All with the promise of the current managers at the time, that my territory would not be moved in the forseeable future. That promise is one of the biggest reasons I purchased the house I did. It was better for me, and better for the company (less tardies).
Well, literally 1 day after I moved into my new house, the current managers were fired. They weren't replaced immediately, but we still had our team leaders kindof running the show. My team leaders changed almost monthly in the previous months, due to them fighting over me (my bonuses meant more money for them). 2 weeks after moving into my house, despite the promises given, they moved my territory. I was no longer in the center, but outside the far edge (think of a circle).
Of course, I was a pretty upset about this. There was nothing I could do really, but I wanted to talk to my team leaders (they were all my team leaders pretty much, since I got moved so often). Well, in my "venting", one of them got defensive. I didn't cuss or say anything deragatory to anyone. I was just looking for an explanation or even an apology for the change. But this guy just lost it. Completely blowing the whole thing out of proportion, and saying he took it all personally. No matter how I changed my tone, it didn't matter. He just lost it on me. Since he was sortof my boss, I of course backed down immediately when I noticed him going this route. Thankfully nothing ever came of that, and it was all but forgotten I believe. Scared me to death though. All I was doing was wanting to talk about the issue, and I end up fearing loosing my job over it.
Fast forward 2.5 years to today.
The guy I got into an "argument" with that day years ago, is now the Service Manager. While generally a nice guy, he's now become a "company man", and I will never forget how he treated me that day. I've always walked on glass around him. And he's pretty much always treated me nice.
Well lately, things have been rough with our company. With the changes in management, to the new policies in place, to the tensions around the office and with everyone. Stress is abundant, but the work continues.
Today, my manager wanted me to do something that I sincerely thought was impossible. Basically he wanted me to get to a location before they closed, and I did the math, and could not see how it could be done. I CALMLY said, "That might be impossible, but I'll try". "Why is it impossible?!, I need you to get there today!". I tried to explain how even though the miles weren't many, the drive there was full of lights, and it would take over an hour to get there. I tried to explain that I wasn't trying to get out of doing it (which he should know since I bust my butt every day), but that if you do the math, it probably couldn't be done, and might have to wait until the next morning. Then I get the old, "Well, I drive from ____ to ____ every day, and it doesn't take me that long (about 70 miles). I said, "Well, that's highway, no lights, no traffic." He knew the situation, but refused to even TRY to see my point. He then started saying how he didn't like my tone. I immediately lowered my tone, and apologized for the misunderstanding (for fear of what happened 2 years ago was going to happen again). Sure enough it did. He didn't stop. Continuing to say that my tone was uncalled for (I never yelled or anything, I was just trying to get my point across, as it was logical. I was also getting a bit aggitated that he didn't treat me with a bit more respect and TRUST my judgment.) He said, "Well talk about this later," , and hung up the phone.
Now, in hindsight, yeah I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut. Never said a word, other than "Yes Sir", "I'll get right on that Sir". "Not a problem Sir."
But Jesus effing Christ. Replace "Sir" with "Master", and what do we have? Slavery!
This isn't the military. I didn't do anything wrong, except BARELY get aggitated and it MIGHT have shown through in my voice a LITTLE.
I feel like I'm working with a communist or something. It's kindof like how a kid gets accused of something he really did not do, and the parent is scolding him. The kid tries to explain calmly, "But dad..." and is cutoff by the dad yelling, "Don't backtalk me!! Your grounded!!!"
I don't believe in that kind of treatment, but that doesn't really make it wrong. However, at 32 years old, and with my job status, I don't deserve to be treated like a child. Nobody does.
I sent an email afterwards, with my apology in the "misunderstanding". I never got a reply.
I'm worried that I might get written up, or even worse, lose my job over this.
This world sucks, and it's policies suck. People need to grow the hell up, and grow some fucking balls. Stand up for what they believe in, and stop being a pussy, hiding behind rules and regulations. This guy is obviously a prick, and a control freak. And the "power" he has is simply abused in this case. But what is a regular joe to do? Continue to take it up the ass, on a daily basis, because the powers that be, require it. Do as I say, no questions asked, or let your family suffer. Stupid stupid world we live in.
Comments
After reading your post i only have to say one thing. Either take it with a yes sir! no sir! or look for another job. There will always be alpha males trying to dominate eachother in a working enviroment but you have to pick your battles. Some things are not worth fighting or arguing over. If you are scared about losing you job you litteraly have to take it up the bum sort of speak and just swallow that pride. It sucks and makes you hate your job but you just have to eat it. The only other option is look for another job and even then you can be stuck with an even bigger prick. Better the devil you know.
For instance when he asked you to take that ride you should just have done it. Even if you knew it was impossible. If you don't make it you don't make it. You should just have made a call as soon as you got there and tell him the place was closed. Nobody want to be told their decision making is wrong or impossible least of all managers. Better show them through action that it can't be done than stand up to it.
How are your job opportunities? Can you easily get a new job on your line of business? If not then you really have no leverage here.
i have to put my two cents into this as well but you should have at least tried to do it versus getting into an argument of symantics about traffic lights, etc.
I would have said jokingly, "alright but im sure im not going to get there in time." Then try it. If I didnt get there in time I would have called and said "sorry I tried." At least he knew you tried.
I'm not saying your wrong but the last thing I would do is try to reason with your boss who doesnt kinda like you in the first place.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Yes. You see, some people mistakenly thought that globalization was going to raise everyone in the world up to US standards of living and civility. But that was never really the plan. Instead we'll all be lowered to the lowliest 3rd world feudal peasant slave status. Wages continue to plummet, adjusted for inflation, and living standards have been declining since world war 2. Oh yeah, sure, we have bigger TV's and more powerful microwave ovens. So I guess we should just shut up and be happy with that. But don't think about having multiple children, that's a little much to be asking for in this modern world. Remember; breathing is a privilege.
"If you can't out wit them, report them till they're banned!"- PopinJ'
Dood start your own business and steal their clients.
Actually, there was a bit of a justification to my argument (really it wasn't much of an argument, just a verbal disagreement of opinion on my end). You see, had I not been required to do the "impossible", I could have went to another customer and took care of their problem before the end of the day. As far as I was concerned, there was no need in risking NOT getting to either customer.
They continously harp on "treat your job as your own business", "you make the decisions on where and when you're going to who and what", etc. That's pretty much why I've excelled.
But when it comes down to what we had today, it's in direct defiance of what they always want us to do.
I have no clue how hard it would be to find another job. I've worked so hard in this field to make it where I am today. I have ALOT to lose if things go bad. This company is the largest, and considered the "best to work for" (well, in the past few years, no clue now), in this field, in my area. So moving to a similar company is probably not possible. As for changing careers, again, that's a very tough one. I've put so much into it, I hate to throw it all away. On top of all of that, good luck on finding a job anywhere right now. That's next to impossible.
Maybe it's time to find out. Make some inquries. If you can get another job then you have more leverage. You can let it be known you are looking into other opportunities because you want to be closer to your job. If you are an asset they will try and accomodate you. If you are replacable it will be easier to to let you leave. Either way if you have other job opportunities it's a win win for you so it shouldn't matter.
As for the other part. There is no question you were right. There is no question that it would have made more sense to stay then to go. That however is irrelevant since for 1 you are not a manager to be making that decision. Your job is basically to follow orders whether you like it or not. A job place is rarely a democracy and neither should it be. If i were you i would keep your opinions to yourself, no matter how much more sense or better business ethics it allows. Making bad choices and decisions is entirely in the hands of the manager. It's better to make suggestions and then let it be, as soon as you see he isn't open to it, than to counter argue why it's a bad idea. Two roads leading to the same place. It really isn't in your place to question it. If you believe you can do a better job then is it possible to apply for a manager position yourself? If so then that would be the course i would take.
I've always called it how it is. Even at work, in the face of my bosses. It is how it is and often times my view of the situation was more accurate then the people above me simply because when they were in my position half the shit wasn't around. Things change, and I've found that a lot of the people who have held a management position refuse to let go of the "old days" and end up being more of a detriment then anything.
Maybe it's because I don't like to take flack for shit I didn't do but I've stoped taking it from anybody anymore. I've told foremen they were wrong and it's resulted in me being sent home from a job site only to be called by the boss the next day with an appology and a quick reinstatement because what I said came to fruition and the foreman fucked up everything. I realize that the economy isn't up to par when I started working so this might not be a viable option but I refuse to compromise my values and I think even now in the hard times if I knew for a fact that I was in the right I'd stand up for it no matter the consequences. However I do understand your point of view. You have a family and people who depend on you to live comfortable. I don't. I have a bit of luxury that way I guess.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Vhayne...awww...::hugs:: I feel for you. In the spot you were in, hind sight is 20/20 and in this case you sorta had it since you have delt with this guy in the past. Maybe you shouldn't have said a word. Called the company you needed to go to and ask if they could stay open a biot longer so you could get there and fix whatever it is that needed fixed. Or maybe you could have tried to drive there and if you didn't make it on time, then you could have called your boss and tell him you tried to get there on time but just missed them and that you'd gladly go by in the morning.
It does suck that you are not getting the recognition you deserve.
People like you deserve better.
I don't see where you did anything wrong bud. You might start developing a backup plan or two though just to be safe.
I absolutely can't stand people who are either overly sensitive or tend to fly off the handle. I feel like I have very good social skills and I honestly don't think I have had anyone dislike me since Junior High or even Grade School. The key to this is being able to read people and know exactly how to handle them to keep on their good side. With people like this boss of yours, it is damn near impossible to pull this off. My technique is to stay far away from people like that and watch others set them off. I have had co-workers and even Supervisors like this too, and you just have to write them off as a lost cause and consider yourself lucky they are few and far between. Even with a supervisor or manager you have to interact with every day, the best solution is to give-in when you can and roll with the punches when they randomly erupt. Luckily these kinds of people seem to have fewer amiable relationships and will still keep on friendly terms with you even if you set them off from time to time. The trick is to keep their respect but also show them there are no hard feelings.
You just have to remember that some people have serious social issues. It really isn't there fault and if you learn to forgive them in advance you might inspire a little loyalty even if there are still a few random eruptions from time to time. I always think of the character Chloe from 24 as an example.
The manager is wrong. Employees should not be treated with disrespect, in my eyes, thats just poor managment. If you work as hard as you say you do and still get treated like this, its time to start thinking of a solution. Sure times might be hard to find another job, but you still have this job.
If you've got a problem with this new manager, who was once your teamleader.. And you still remain the same push-over... You're doing something wrong, if you say you do this great work. Talk to someone higher up on the managment hierarchy. Simply explain yourself and the problems you have "majority" of the time with this manager. Make sure you have people that you work with that can back you up and actually give you a good review.. Get customer reviews... Stop wasting your time with this jerkoff service manager and get with someone higher.
Remember, set a goal, stick to it... You are the shit at what you do and don't let anyone tell you different, or try and stop you from reaching your goal.
If you read, I recomend this book to anyone - "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
Shits worked good for me so far... Maniuplating people seems so simple.
______________________________
What if Paul Revere was like the boy who cried wolf....?
Originally posted by Hazmal
What does he say when people ask what he did? "My mommy was irking me yo - I wanted to keep pwning nubs on my xbox, so I roughed her up with a hardshell. That is just how I roll."
Tillamook..Im not sure if your serious! but that was perfect,I would have said the same thing.
I worked about six yrs for a real DICK ..he made the mistake of giving my phone number to a client. HA HA big mistake,he needed me to smooth things over because of the late work,BTW it was my fault for the work being late! mainly because of the work load was so heavy at that time.The client was bitching about the service,so i jumped..And said i can service your account !!
Told " her " the client,this has to between you and me !! you cant tell the company,gave that line of Ahh.... you will be my only account and i will give you some serious personal time.She bites and its all been down hill since...going on 16 yrs now.Your always going to serve some one,its up to you who you will choose to serve.
But to the op..Brown nose until the economy gets better,people are alway looking for cheaper and better prices.Free Lance.
Make plans now,dream..believe it will happen,push yourself while your young.!!!
The object here is to work smarter not harder.The economy will turn around,just be ready to jump when it does.Ultimately if you stay in the company you will turn out like your boss if you like or not.Company-man hehe.
Just my 2 cents
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
What frodus said. Get the gears in motion now. Start slowly and build a plan to fix the situation. Once the economy starts the upswing really put the plans in motion. The only real way to show the people your worth is to leave and once they realize the workload you've been keeping and it all falls down onto their hands they'll know and hopefully learn to not make the same mistake with future employees. Something tells me however that those kinds of people never learn which will leave them in the same predicament they're in now.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Remind him that you are one of his better guys and that you are very good at your job mostly because, in addition to having a strong work ethic, you also have enough work experience behind you to know the job you are being paid to do. In your professional opinion it'll be difficult for you to get there in time but you'll make a strong effort just the same.
Did you make it in time?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Tillamook..Im not sure if your serious! but that was perfect,I would have said the same thing.
I worked about six yrs for a real DICK ..he made the mistake of giving my phone number to a client. HA HA big mistake,he needed me to smooth things over because of the late work,BTW it was my fault for the work being late! mainly because of the work load was so heavy at that time.The client was bitching about the service,so i jumped..And said i can service your account !!
Told " her " the client,this has to between you and me !! you cant tell the company,gave that line of Ahh.... you will be my only account and i will give you some serious personal time.She bites and its all been down hill since...going on 16 yrs now.Your always going to serve some one,its up to you who you will choose to serve.
But to the op..Brown nose until the economy gets better,people are alway looking for cheaper and better prices.Free Lance.
Make plans now,dream..believe it will happen,push yourself while your young.!!!
The object here is to work smarter not harder.The economy will turn around,just be ready to jump when it does.Ultimately if you stay in the company you will turn out like your boss if you like or not.Company-man hehe.
Just my 2 cents
Yep, I am for real. Time to branch out, leave the bad management behind. I'm willing to bet their clients would jump at the chance to go with this guy. Because more than likely their service is as bad as their management and if he's their best employee then why wouldn't the customers be ready to find another alternative? No need to be treated like crap, bad economy or not. Especially when you pull your weight.
OP:
I see multiple issues here.
1. your boss is an asshat and I wish you the best of luck in finding alternative means in income so that you do not have to work in such a hostile environment.
2. Your either overly confident or not confident enough in your abilities.
If you view abilities higher than what your employers do, they may be trying to "bring you down off your throne" or if they are in a bad financial situation they may be running your ass to make you make mistakes to give grounds for termination. Which I think is bad business practice, but is very common. The most likely in that situation however is they make your work environment unbearable so that you quit instead so they are not out the unemployment.
If you are the "can do " kind of guy your management might have been insulted by your "can't do " attitude. Though he should not have responded the way he did, rather explain to you how to get the job done properly. If you have been trained poorly I still believe that is poor management not the employee's fault , but employee incompetence can be an issue here as well.
For example if he was telling you to go to a store before they closed, or a business that you had to drop off an item and you did not have time to get there you should have told him " I will do the best I can" , then called your destination explaining what you needed and when you would arrive and politely ask them if there is any way they can make it happen. Usually people are very understanding and go out of their way to assist you. If it was a store they could have pulled the item from the shelf for you and had it awaiting you when you arrived. If it was a client they could have waited justa few minutes for your arrival or made arrangements with you to reschedule.
If you were trying to mail an item you could have opted out for another service that offers 24 hr service if there was no way you were making it to the post office on time.
I strongly disagree with the way your employer handled it, but if My P.A. had told me something was impossible after being properly trained, I would be looking for a new P.A.
I think that would just set the service manager guy off even more because it would seem like he's intimidated by our #1 copy tech on mmorpg. Management at most companies is skating on thin ice right now.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Just go with your gut.
Generally speaking, most people will shit on you until you put them in their place. If they give you more shit, go to their boss and tell them how much of an idiot the guy is. You just gotta go high enough up the ladder til you find a guy who gives a shit and doesnt tolerate stupid people. Ive had tons of arrogant prick bosses who I managed to crap all over simply because I went to their bosses and gave them the 411 on what was going on.
Or just result to my personal favorite and getting in your bosses face and throwing down a laundry list of shit theyve fucked up on or reasons why theyre wrong, with facts and good reasons. Nothing hurts people like hearing the truth of how incompetent they are.
Once that guy said "I dont like your tone." I woulda been like "You know what, take your holier than thou attitude and shove it up your ass. Im tired of being nice to you while you act like a dick. If you want it done, you go do it because Im busy actually being productive while you continue to be an ass."
Now I know no one wants to lose their job, but some times you just gotta stand up for yourself. Ive been fired many times and it only led to better jobs in the long run and I felt better knowing I wasnt some tools bitch.
I think that would just set the service manager guy off even more because it would seem like he's intimidated by our #1 copy tech on mmorpg. Management at most companies is skating on thin ice right now.
The intimidation is too subtle for most people to pick up on and the ones that do are too smart to call you on it - there is nothing in the above that they can use to attack you with without impling that you're a bad employee to the company which is false and they know it. That is the beauty of it - you're telling the truth and if they want to fight you on it they need to argue from a position they know is untrue. Keep the conversation on you and your ability to do your job to the best of your ability and how you know that you're an asset to the company.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I've had a boss like that in my past...
I learned this... That kind of boss will keep pushing you until you snap, then make you feel like your finally snapping is all your own fault..make you feel like shit...manipulation at the master lvl.
The issue here is not your tone at all, but his inability to be a good leader, I'd suggest you threaten him some. I'd buy myself one of those little micro digital recorders and keep it in my top pocket for every convo with this guy...and then....stand up to his bullshit. teach him it's HIS problem, not yours when you lay it out clearly and he can't handle it. but don't play your hand unless shit hits a fan....then give him a chance to fix it....
suddenly you'll be the one he's being "yes sir" to.