I can't say i disagree with you on how SL came out,), i would have gone towards a Sci-FI solid expansion, they added fantasy to the mix but still, it was part of all the things done to AO after launch, and doesn't take away the fact that during AoC's development AO received a big boost in terms of dev communication with the playerbase, fixes and additions, which is the main topic on my responses to unfinished, fixes, tweaks and additions that are still being patched (tho i honestly dunno how often as of now)
I had the same experience with AoC. I wrote a few class guides early on, got involved in the community only to have one of the patches result in an unplayable game for me. After a couple weeks of trying to get support and never getting it I quit. I was also treated like crap by the wonderful forum mods in their efforts to cleanse the forums and supress bad PR during the launch.
I might come back for a free month or two and see how things have changed. The graphics were great but there was no core game, sense of progress or character development that you expect with a mmo. Id play for free but unless it was AMAZING they wouldnt get a cent.
Relaunch with free gametime for the brutalized sounds like a good idea.
So does an apology for launching crap, but we will never get it.
FC has a long tradition of treating some of their most active community members & fans with total disregard and abuse.
The original creator of AO's Guild Chat-Bot was banned for life after helping FC identify and solve severe exploits in the game. There are many incidents equal to this over the years.
This is related to my biggest beef with FC. Community relations and the fact that they just don't seem to learn from past mistakes. After AO there's just no excuse for the state AoC was released in and no excuse for the joke that was beta. They had years to develop strategies from their AO experiences but fell flat.
They listened to people who just had no frakkin clue what gamers want in general and are now having to go back to clear up those mistakes. Prime example would be stats and armor and magic to an extent. There was a small group that cried long and loud about not wanting stats and nice looking armor cause you know Conan is brutal like that, but in the end that was way off base from what the general community really liked and wanted. Now they're trying to fix that when they could have saved themselves some trouble but just being much more objective and in touch with their community as a whole and not just a small group.
Even in beta many players felt their participation and feedback was worthless because FC had their special build for internal testers and their special guild to test special stuff, whatever that was. And on release their community relations was equally as pathetic. It's like if you're not saying what they want to hear then they're sitting there with their fingers in their ears going nya nya nya I can't hear you! Class imbalances, bugs, and a horde of other issues went unaddressed for weeks and months. There's just no excuse for that and if you present paying customers with an environment where they feel they're being screwed and ignored then they're going to get angry. Who wouldn't?
And I'm not even going to go into that interview from a little while ago where Craig the savior said AoC wasn't really built with RP in mind. Seriously, wha? haha! (Damn I wish I'd saved that link!)
Anyway, I'm not going through all this again. The one thing that will help AoC pull back some players they've lost is the dismal performance of Darkfall compiled with some massive patching, which appears to be happening. Their community relations is still a joke for me, but I'm sure many others can get past that. Seriously, if you can't address simple issues then I'm guessing you really don't want that part of your community back, so goodluck to ya. I won't be back, nor will any of my friends who left for the same reasons I did.
Notum Wars - Good size Xpac, launched very broken, massive exploits in Tower Wars mechanics for years.
Shadowlands - Huge Xpac, went 180 on the Sci-Fi theme to chase WoW and teh Fantasy genre, players reaction "WTF!?!?". launched very broken and incomplete. They are still trying to fill in content.
Alien Invasion - Small Xpac, majority of the content is "Large Guild Only", launched broken and missing some of the most touted advertised features (player vendors). More than a year to fill in most of the missing content.
Lost Eden - Tiny Xpac, AI content for small guilds and solo players, highly advertised features turn out to be pointless (mechs) or broken (Station PvP).
New 'Booster' Pack - can't comment haven't played it.
*********
A pattern of launching half finished products, and taking years to clean it up.
A pattern of adding less and less to the game over time.
**********
In between all those expansions there was the 'free' content.
Mercs - place holder goes missing and GM needs to manualy reset it
Temple of the Three Winds - Still get trained to death by jackasses afaik
Inner Sanctum - no big issues I am aware of except the everf present lag and LDs
Bio-Dome - no big issues I am aware of except teh ever present lag and LDs
Dust Brigade Bosses- last I knew more than one was LoS exploitable.
These additions became farther and farther between.
**********
Don't get me wrong, this list makes it sound like AO is a giant failure, but it does have a lot going for it. it was ground breaking and innovative in the genre. But the Development has certainly slowed down over the years.
i can oversimplify any list of additions to any game to make it look smaller than you did with that of AO, in particular during the AoC development period, but is ok, it's your opinion (while placing things in ways that mke them fit more to it than they actually are go beyond opinion).
Aside from this particular oversimplification to try and make look as if FC had next to abandoned AO cause of Aoc and implying the same for AoC in lieu of TSW, a simple review of your posts show that, while your complaints against FC and Aoc have merits, you tend to exagerate your point, you don't really even consider anyone saying anything good about their current experience in AoC as valid, you talk about the game as if it was in the same shape it was at launch, which is not true.
Forgive me if i fell dubious of your presentations regarding FC, AO, AoC and TSW, but first hand experience and your trend on how to present your ideas (likely out of frustration, or simply out of dislike to the point you don't even want things to improve, just to get buried, i dunno) in an non objective, non up to date manner.
I have my beefs with AOC, AO, and FC, as i have them with other games (most if not all) and developers (most if not all) but i don't campaign to destroy any of them, cause people have their own opinions, they can like and enjoy what i don't, and above all cause i try to be objective on my criticism or praise, is not jsut a matter of i hate this or that, it's a matter of how this or that actually is.
Aside from this particular oversimplification to try and make look as if FC had next to abandoned AO cause of Aoc and implying the same for AoC in lieu of TSW, a simple review of your posts show that, while your complaints against FC and Aoc have merits, you tend to exagerate your point, you don't really even consider anyone saying anything good about their current experience in AoC as valid, you talk about the game as if it was in the same shape it was at launch, which is not true.
I try to steer away from commenting on peoples enjoyment of the game. I tend to talk about the company and it's history and how I see it relating to it's future. I get a strong 'Deva Ju' feeling as i watch AoC move forward. I feel I traveled this road before, and I am pointing out the 'bumps' I see coming ahead. I could be way off base, but a lot of my prognostication since AoC's release has been rather close to the mark. I think i was one of the very first on the official forums early on to speculate that Godager was gonna get canned and replaced by Morrison. And I have have mixed feelings about being right about that one, IMO that was a huge blow to the AO community, they lost their best advocate.
As for the current state of the game, it is better, it has to be, it was a giant mess and unplayable for many. I guess I am just not as impressed seeing FC crawl out of this hole, I saw it once already.
Aside from this particular oversimplification to try and make look as if FC had next to abandoned AO cause of Aoc and implying the same for AoC in lieu of TSW, a simple review of your posts show that, while your complaints against FC and Aoc have merits, you tend to exagerate your point, you don't really even consider anyone saying anything good about their current experience in AoC as valid, you talk about the game as if it was in the same shape it was at launch, which is not true.
I try to steer away from commenting on peoples enjoyment of the game. I tend to talk about the company and it's history and how I see it relating to it's future. I get a strong 'Deva Ju' feeling as i watch AoC move forward. I feel I traveled this road before, and I am pointing out the 'bumps' I see coming ahead. I could be way off base, but a lot of my prognostication since AoC's release has been rather close to the mark. I think i was one of the very first on the official forums early on to speculate that Godager was gonna get canned and replaced by Morrison. And I have have mixed feelings about being right about that one, IMO that was a huge blow to the AO community, they lost their best advocate.
As for the current state of the game, it is better, it has to be, it was a giant mess and unplayable for many. I guess I am just not as impressed seeing FC crawl out of this hole, I saw it once already.
WTF..AND YOU ARE STILL IN THIS FORUM WHY???? Because you have this ridiculous self love that you are the Oracle of MMORPGs? lol. All you have proven is how one person can ignore progress because he is mentally scarred from an experience that happened ages ago. The reality is that for many of us that didn't experience the launch, we are loving the game, we have fun watching the progress, we don't freak out if an expectation isn't met on time because that is typical of most games, and if something pisses us off (like it did when Funcom ignored my technical support issue), we bite the bullet and move on because there isnt anything better out for many of us and nothing is perfect. As long as they continue to show improvement, continue to improve perfomance, and provide a fun experience, who gives a crap about your predictions regarding management. Its so funny listening to you babble on about the same road over and over and over again . I'm going to continue to recommend that you move on to a game that you enjoy to get a feel for what it would be like to enjoy yourself or better yet, as Ive suggested before, go help the Darkfall beta that was just released, they have plenty of bugs worth writing about. Most people with connected brain cells don't buy an MMO at launch without understanding that there may be some serious issues and if you can't handle that reality, you are in the wrong gaming genre, which you definetly are.
I try to steer away from commenting on peoples enjoyment of the game. I tend to talk about the company and it's history and how I see it relating to it's future. I get a strong 'Deva Ju' feeling as i watch AoC move forward. I feel I traveled this road before, and I am pointing out the 'bumps' I see coming ahead. I could be way off base, but a lot of my prognostication since AoC's release has been rather close to the mark. I think i was one of the very first on the official forums early on to speculate that Godager was gonna get canned and replaced by Morrison. And I have have mixed feelings about being right about that one, IMO that was a huge blow to the AO community, they lost their best advocate. As for the current state of the game, it is better, it has to be, it was a giant mess and unplayable for many. I guess I am just not as impressed seeing FC crawl out of this hole, I saw it once already.
Eh, I thought the point of computer gaming was having fun, not what the company did before?
It is true that the game released in bad shape and that history repeats itself just as with Mythic but the only thing that truly matters in a game is if it's players are having fun (and that there are enough of them to keep the game running), not how the game was at launch. The bad launch have costed AoC of course but we all know about it since a long time and it is useless saying the same thing over and over.
As for AO, I think it is a good decision to move a competent employe to your main game and let someone new take over the old one.
It's good for everyone. Those who lost faith can try to find some closure. Those who hated the GD has a new one. Those who had PC related issues shouldn't.
Please keep posting. the more imput FC gets the better our game gets.
Eh, I thought the point of computer gaming was having fun, not what the company did before?
Some people believe it's important to send a message to these developers - give us unfinished crap and lie about it and you will go out of business. Some people think this for the good of the whole MMO community.
Others live life inside their own small bubble and keep paying to developers no matter what happens.
Realize the free trial was to be implemented by Q1/09 (they said that in their Q3/08 report). Seems like they are behind schedule as usual.
I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Simply said, they are not brave enough to do what they need to do to give the game a fighting chance.
It's more likely they do this around the anniversary which is closer to the earlier treshold of their planned period.
I agree they should give 2 weeks ate minimum for old accounts, regular trials could be 7 to 14 days, accounts from start should receive more, specially CE accounts and preorders.
Actually the report say they plan on trials to happen over the next 6-9 months and then optimize it in different stages you can see the "plans" in the report http://www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/FUNCOM-Q408-presentation.pdf It's more likely they do this around the anniversary which is closer to the earlier treshold of their planned period.
I agree they should give 2 weeks ate minimum for old accounts, regular trials could be 7 to 14 days, accounts from start should receive more, specially CE accounts and preorders.
Ya, their plan has changed since Q3/08. See that's the problem. If they can't follow the timeline from Q3, why do you think they will follow their Q4 guidelines?
Originally posted by Litigator_AB I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
the overall improvements in their management, game performance and implementation during the period, but yes that's not much, also the fact that Q4 reflects more closely the period where they stops being in dire emergency and can star building up from there, pointless to make a win back campaign if the main concerns havn been properly addressed yet.
Originally posted by Litigator_AB I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Because many of the players at launch didn't get their 30 days because it was unplayable for so many? There will be a lot of people doing rerolls on a new server because their original one no longer exsists. 'A free week in Tortage' isn't gonna keep a returning player, they got scammed by that tactic once already. They need to see that the big content holes are gone and associated grind is gone.
At this point FC should be doing everything they can to entice a returning player, free month, free transfers, discount on multi-month subs, even hands and knees begging. it will take a lot to get back even a small portion of those who left and they need teh subs.
The majority of the positive reactions are from the 8% or less, minority of players able to tuff it out the past 9 months, the game is no where close to being worth it for most players due to game mechanics and bland content. PvP system - failure PvE Raids - failure (read the official forums for more info) Player progression aside from levels - failure PvE Group content - failure Trade skills - failure class balance and class design - failure
/sigh
Could please back that up with something else than the word "failure"?
I can help you out here. You say "the PvP system is a failure because..." and then follow up with a *reason* as to why the PvP system is a failure.
Do you really need a re-hash of ALL of the things players had serious issues with in every single thread? I am pretty sure you are very familiar with the 'counter-view' and the things players found dissapointing by now.
The counter-views that has been torn to shreds time and time again? Yes, it seems like we need to do that again, as it seems it cannot be done enough.
Why don't you tell me why the PvP system is a failure? And before we start, what are we comparing it against in order to call it a failure? World of Warcraft? Warhammer? Both?
PVP System being a failure can tie into the class balance issue. Pretty awesome when you can be stealthed and take a pot shot on a guy before he knows where you are and kill him by the time he takes 5 steps towards you (95 more to go). Did I mention that unfortunate soul was a tank class?
You can go on for ages arguing and defending the few things that were done right (assuming they worked and weren't bugged) and the things that completely destroy the game. AoC had as much potential to be an awesome game like Vanguard did. Great potential, great ideas/lore behind the games. Complete failures when looked at, comparing their good to bad. In the end with certain games the only people defending it will be the hardcore fans that seem to have unlimited cash to throw into these money pits.
I'm in no way trying to say that every "successful" game out there like WoW and other well known MMOs are the top of their class and deserve the clouds to part, the sun to shine and trumpets to blast a resounding sound around the world but obviously those games, while not appealing to everyone are doing something right as they're still around and still going strong.
There will always be games that fail and die, sometimes a slow painful death. Some that are mediocre and survive and milk as much money as they can. And then the well known, popular games that redefine the MMO world for their generation. Now I know i'll probably get flamed and it might be blasphemy to say it but how long until WoW is no longer on top? Eventually that game will dwindle and die as something new that offers a majority of the MMO populace something they want and holds their attention. When that happens as gamers we either adapt and find something else that appeals to us or you freak out and go live with the Amish.
I could be wrong but i truly get the feeling FC is just stringing people along for as long as they can. Ive seen a trend lately of PC games not being finished at launch. Not just mmo;s but single player games as well. Some ligit reasons are hardware combinations at this time are so varied that it would be hard to make a game run on every concievable combanation. Having said that $50 for a game with the promise of a patch later seems a bit extreme to me. However most single player games are patched in a short time after release and the "good" mmo companies work hard to patch as they go along....how long has FC been stringing folks along now with promises of the good things to come? For those of you who like the game i think thats great but the constant dumping on games that actually run and maintain a decent player base is a bit extreme.
The majority of the positive reactions are from the 8% or less, minority of players able to tuff it out the past 9 months, the game is no where close to being worth it for most players due to game mechanics and bland content. PvP system - failure PvE Raids - failure (read the official forums for more info) Player progression aside from levels - failure PvE Group content - failure Trade skills - failure class balance and class design - failure
/sigh
Could please back that up with something else than the word "failure"?
I can help you out here. You say "the PvP system is a failure because..." and then follow up with a *reason* as to why the PvP system is a failure.
Do you really need a re-hash of ALL of the things players had serious issues with in every single thread? I am pretty sure you are very familiar with the 'counter-view' and the things players found dissapointing by now.
The counter-views that has been torn to shreds time and time again? Yes, it seems like we need to do that again, as it seems it cannot be done enough.
Why don't you tell me why the PvP system is a failure? And before we start, what are we comparing it against in order to call it a failure? World of Warcraft? Warhammer? Both?
PVP System being a failure can tie into the class balance issue. Pretty awesome when you can be stealthed and take a pot shot on a guy before he knows where you are and kill him by the time he takes 5 steps towards you (95 more to go). Did I mention that unfortunate soul was a tank class?
You can go on for ages arguing and defending the few things that were done right (assuming they worked and weren't bugged) and the things that completely destroy the game. AoC had as much potential to be an awesome game like Vanguard did. Great potential, great ideas/lore behind the games. Complete failures when looked at, comparing their good to bad. In the end with certain games the only people defending it will be the hardcore fans that seem to have unlimited cash to throw into these money pits.
Tortage and the 20 first levels was a success. Even though the crashes and long lasting (re)loading screens ruined a lot of gameplay, the monkey kings treasure and the bananas in the beginning made it worth waiting.
Apprenticeship system was a blast. 19 levels behind your friend? No problem, press a button and you can play with him/her!
Combatsystem with or without spells was awesome. Combos
The eternal quests that did not function ruined a lot of the experience. "Pick 20 Cotton". I press the bush and no Cotton in my inventory even if it indicates that the Cotton Node is being picked. - F*** tradeskills, I'm going to level instead!
20 levels later I run out of quest and proud as I am I keep grinding my way to the max level. Finally at the max level I realize I picked the wrong class. I get killed in one second by some player classes. And others I kill in one blow even though I'm a healer. Anyone remember the Crossbow talenttree headshot spell? Yes, that ability oneshot me.
So summary: It is a blast to level up, but once at the highest level you can cancel your subscription. Or repeat the above procedure.
Originally posted by Litigator_AB I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Because many of the players at launch didn't get their 30 days because it was unplayable for so many? There will be a lot of people doing rerolls on a new server because their original one no longer exsists. 'A free week in Tortage' isn't gonna keep a returning player, they got scammed by that tactic once already. They need to see that the big content holes are gone and associated grind is gone.
At this point FC should be doing everything they can to entice a returning player, free month, free transfers, discount on multi-month subs, even hands and knees begging. it will take a lot to get back even a small portion of those who left and they need teh subs.
I am a casual player maybe 1-2 hrs a night. It doesn't take a week to finish Tortage. Even when I was new to the game it did not take that long to finish Tortage even with the lag, bugs, and crashes back in May/June.
And 10-15 days is close to two weeks. Plenty of time to get out of Tortage, explore and know if you enjoy the game.
No, what I'm worried about is people like you that hold this massive grudge against Funcom, "Still waiting for my refund check". People like that who will log into the game knowning they will never sub and cause all kinds of trouble in global chat. Hey maybe they can disable global chat for free accounts and it will cut down on trolls.
Some people believe it's important to send a message to these developers - give us unfinished crap and lie about it and you will go out of business. Some people think this for the good of the whole MMO community. Others live life inside their own small bubble and keep paying to developers no matter what happens.
This.
I might give AoC a try if I get a new free month to replace the ruined one back when it launched. But out of principle I'm leaning towards never giving FC another chance. Not falling for that crap again.
Originally posted by Litigator_AB I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Because many of the players at launch didn't get their 30 days because it was unplayable for so many? There will be a lot of people doing rerolls on a new server because their original one no longer exsists. 'A free week in Tortage' isn't gonna keep a returning player, they got scammed by that tactic once already. They need to see that the big content holes are gone and associated grind is gone.
At this point FC should be doing everything they can to entice a returning player, free month, free transfers, discount on multi-month subs, even hands and knees begging. it will take a lot to get back even a small portion of those who left and they need teh subs.
I am a casual player maybe 1-2 hrs a night. It doesn't take a week to finish Tortage. Even when I was new to the game it did not take that long to finish Tortage even with the lag, bugs, and crashes back in May/June.
And 10-15 days is close to two weeks. Plenty of time to get out of Tortage, explore and know if you enjoy the game.
No, what I'm worried about is people like you that hold this massive grudge against Funcom, "Still waiting for my refund check". People like that who will log into the game knowning they will never sub and cause all kinds of trouble in global chat. Hey maybe they can disable global chat for free accounts and it will cut down on trolls.
I have no reason currently to re-visit Age of Conan even with a free trial, the things that made me quit have not been solved. And regardless of what you may think of me personally, logging into grief peoples fun isn't my idea of a good time.
Odd that the current players fear returning players, I thought you guys were gungo-ho for re-reviews, higher popualtions, more subs and the faster development cycle. As for global chat getting fubared by angry hate screamers, it's going on right this second according to my friends who still log in, and the ignore fuction still works.
More than 15 days is needed to get players back to where they left off when most quit, a ton of us were at end game trying to play threw the broken sieging and raids. Is 15 days going to get a 1-2 hr / day player to the much bragged about Ymir's pass before the clock expires?
Can't vote because your try again option didn't mention if it was free. No way I give FC money before I see the goods.
Problem with relaunching AoC anyway is that the game dynamic was geared towards attracting large guilds to join as groups and drive the game's core dynamics of pvp. Well a lot of those guilds tried it already and left. I don't see those guilds coming back en masse to try it again. Which means AoC will have a much longer cycle of getting a strong player base back into the game (IF the game is even any good in the future) to build up large strong guilds. And that long cycle time would be a heavy strain on a game that many see as failed already.
Originally posted by Litigator_AB I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Some people don't have more than 1 hour a day for gaming. 10 days is not enough for these people so I think a longer time would be better. Also 1 month could be an unofficial "apology" to all those players Funcom lied in order to get their beta testing money.
Originally posted by Litigator_AB I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Some people don't have more than 1 hour a day for gaming. 10 days is not enough for these people so I think a longer time would be better. Also 1 month could be an unofficial "apology" to all those players Funcom lied in order to get their beta testing money.
i agree with this. I dont just want the time to test out changes. I want the time back to level up and convince friends to come back as well if it were the case. I got ripped for my first month and couldnt play half of it. The content past the half way mark was vapor at best. I say a free month maybe more. The only reason to stay longer would be if raiding and endgame was fun. If Funcom has really addressed those issues they should have no problem wiht a free month for those players who were involved at launch and pre-order / early release.
Comments
I can't say i disagree with you on how SL came out,), i would have gone towards a Sci-FI solid expansion, they added fantasy to the mix but still, it was part of all the things done to AO after launch, and doesn't take away the fact that during AoC's development AO received a big boost in terms of dev communication with the playerbase, fixes and additions, which is the main topic on my responses to unfinished, fixes, tweaks and additions that are still being patched (tho i honestly dunno how often as of now)
I had the same experience with AoC. I wrote a few class guides early on, got involved in the community only to have one of the patches result in an unplayable game for me. After a couple weeks of trying to get support and never getting it I quit. I was also treated like crap by the wonderful forum mods in their efforts to cleanse the forums and supress bad PR during the launch.
I might come back for a free month or two and see how things have changed. The graphics were great but there was no core game, sense of progress or character development that you expect with a mmo. Id play for free but unless it was AMAZING they wouldnt get a cent.
Relaunch with free gametime for the brutalized sounds like a good idea.
So does an apology for launching crap, but we will never get it.
FC has a long tradition of treating some of their most active community members & fans with total disregard and abuse.
The original creator of AO's Guild Chat-Bot was banned for life after helping FC identify and solve severe exploits in the game. There are many incidents equal to this over the years.
This is related to my biggest beef with FC. Community relations and the fact that they just don't seem to learn from past mistakes. After AO there's just no excuse for the state AoC was released in and no excuse for the joke that was beta. They had years to develop strategies from their AO experiences but fell flat.
They listened to people who just had no frakkin clue what gamers want in general and are now having to go back to clear up those mistakes. Prime example would be stats and armor and magic to an extent. There was a small group that cried long and loud about not wanting stats and nice looking armor cause you know Conan is brutal like that, but in the end that was way off base from what the general community really liked and wanted. Now they're trying to fix that when they could have saved themselves some trouble but just being much more objective and in touch with their community as a whole and not just a small group.
Even in beta many players felt their participation and feedback was worthless because FC had their special build for internal testers and their special guild to test special stuff, whatever that was.
And on release their community relations was equally as pathetic. It's like if you're not saying what they want to hear then they're sitting there with their fingers in their ears going nya nya nya I can't hear you! Class imbalances, bugs, and a horde of other issues went unaddressed for weeks and months. There's just no excuse for that and if you present paying customers with an environment where they feel they're being screwed and ignored then they're going to get angry. Who wouldn't?
And I'm not even going to go into that interview from a little while ago where Craig the savior said AoC wasn't really built with RP in mind. Seriously, wha? haha! (Damn I wish I'd saved that link!)
Anyway, I'm not going through all this again. The one thing that will help AoC pull back some players they've lost is the dismal performance of Darkfall compiled with some massive patching, which appears to be happening. Their community relations is still a joke for me, but I'm sure many others can get past that. Seriously, if you can't address simple issues then I'm guessing you really don't want that part of your community back, so goodluck to ya. I won't be back, nor will any of my friends who left for the same reasons I did.
To Gargola:
Notum Wars - Good size Xpac, launched very broken, massive exploits in Tower Wars mechanics for years.
Shadowlands - Huge Xpac, went 180 on the Sci-Fi theme to chase WoW and teh Fantasy genre, players reaction "WTF!?!?". launched very broken and incomplete. They are still trying to fill in content.
Alien Invasion - Small Xpac, majority of the content is "Large Guild Only", launched broken and missing some of the most touted advertised features (player vendors). More than a year to fill in most of the missing content.
Lost Eden - Tiny Xpac, AI content for small guilds and solo players, highly advertised features turn out to be pointless (mechs) or broken (Station PvP).
New 'Booster' Pack - can't comment haven't played it.
*********
A pattern of launching half finished products, and taking years to clean it up.
A pattern of adding less and less to the game over time.
**********
In between all those expansions there was the 'free' content.
Mercs - place holder goes missing and GM needs to manualy reset it
Temple of the Three Winds - Still get trained to death by jackasses afaik
Inner Sanctum - no big issues I am aware of except the everf present lag and LDs
Bio-Dome - no big issues I am aware of except teh ever present lag and LDs
Dust Brigade Bosses- last I knew more than one was LoS exploitable.
These additions became farther and farther between.
**********
Don't get me wrong, this list makes it sound like AO is a giant failure, but it does have a lot going for it. it was ground breaking and innovative in the genre. But the Development has certainly slowed down over the years.
WE went WAY WAY Off-Topic, apologies to the OP.
i can oversimplify any list of additions to any game to make it look smaller than you did with that of AO, in particular during the AoC development period, but is ok, it's your opinion (while placing things in ways that mke them fit more to it than they actually are go beyond opinion).
Aside from this particular oversimplification to try and make look as if FC had next to abandoned AO cause of Aoc and implying the same for AoC in lieu of TSW, a simple review of your posts show that, while your complaints against FC and Aoc have merits, you tend to exagerate your point, you don't really even consider anyone saying anything good about their current experience in AoC as valid, you talk about the game as if it was in the same shape it was at launch, which is not true.
Forgive me if i fell dubious of your presentations regarding FC, AO, AoC and TSW, but first hand experience and your trend on how to present your ideas (likely out of frustration, or simply out of dislike to the point you don't even want things to improve, just to get buried, i dunno) in an non objective, non up to date manner.
I have my beefs with AOC, AO, and FC, as i have them with other games (most if not all) and developers (most if not all) but i don't campaign to destroy any of them, cause people have their own opinions, they can like and enjoy what i don't, and above all cause i try to be objective on my criticism or praise, is not jsut a matter of i hate this or that, it's a matter of how this or that actually is.
I try to steer away from commenting on peoples enjoyment of the game. I tend to talk about the company and it's history and how I see it relating to it's future. I get a strong 'Deva Ju' feeling as i watch AoC move forward. I feel I traveled this road before, and I am pointing out the 'bumps' I see coming ahead. I could be way off base, but a lot of my prognostication since AoC's release has been rather close to the mark. I think i was one of the very first on the official forums early on to speculate that Godager was gonna get canned and replaced by Morrison. And I have have mixed feelings about being right about that one, IMO that was a huge blow to the AO community, they lost their best advocate.
As for the current state of the game, it is better, it has to be, it was a giant mess and unplayable for many. I guess I am just not as impressed seeing FC crawl out of this hole, I saw it once already.
I try to steer away from commenting on peoples enjoyment of the game. I tend to talk about the company and it's history and how I see it relating to it's future. I get a strong 'Deva Ju' feeling as i watch AoC move forward. I feel I traveled this road before, and I am pointing out the 'bumps' I see coming ahead. I could be way off base, but a lot of my prognostication since AoC's release has been rather close to the mark. I think i was one of the very first on the official forums early on to speculate that Godager was gonna get canned and replaced by Morrison. And I have have mixed feelings about being right about that one, IMO that was a huge blow to the AO community, they lost their best advocate.
As for the current state of the game, it is better, it has to be, it was a giant mess and unplayable for many. I guess I am just not as impressed seeing FC crawl out of this hole, I saw it once already.
WTF..AND YOU ARE STILL IN THIS FORUM WHY???? Because you have this ridiculous self love that you are the Oracle of MMORPGs? lol. All you have proven is how one person can ignore progress because he is mentally scarred from an experience that happened ages ago. The reality is that for many of us that didn't experience the launch, we are loving the game, we have fun watching the progress, we don't freak out if an expectation isn't met on time because that is typical of most games, and if something pisses us off (like it did when Funcom ignored my technical support issue), we bite the bullet and move on because there isnt anything better out for many of us and nothing is perfect. As long as they continue to show improvement, continue to improve perfomance, and provide a fun experience, who gives a crap about your predictions regarding management. Its so funny listening to you babble on about the same road over and over and over again . I'm going to continue to recommend that you move on to a game that you enjoy to get a feel for what it would be like to enjoy yourself or better yet, as Ive suggested before, go help the Darkfall beta that was just released, they have plenty of bugs worth writing about. Most people with connected brain cells don't buy an MMO at launch without understanding that there may be some serious issues and if you can't handle that reality, you are in the wrong gaming genre, which you definetly are.
There Is Always Hope!
Eh, I thought the point of computer gaming was having fun, not what the company did before?
It is true that the game released in bad shape and that history repeats itself just as with Mythic but the only thing that truly matters in a game is if it's players are having fun (and that there are enough of them to keep the game running), not how the game was at launch. The bad launch have costed AoC of course but we all know about it since a long time and it is useless saying the same thing over and over.
As for AO, I think it is a good decision to move a competent employe to your main game and let someone new take over the old one.
It's good for everyone. Those who lost faith can try to find some closure. Those who hated the GD has a new one. Those who had PC related issues shouldn't.
Please keep posting. the more imput FC gets the better our game gets.
Eh, I thought the point of computer gaming was having fun, not what the company did before?
Some people believe it's important to send a message to these developers - give us unfinished crap and lie about it and you will go out of business. Some people think this for the good of the whole MMO community.
Others live life inside their own small bubble and keep paying to developers no matter what happens.
Realize the free trial was to be implemented by Q1/09 (they said that in their Q3/08 report). Seems like they are behind schedule as usual.
I'll agree that a free month to old accounts would be a positive move. But like most cash strapped companies they will be too scared to do something that drastic. I'm sure they'll wimp out and give a free week or 10 days to old subscribers.
Simply said, they are not brave enough to do what they need to do to give the game a fighting chance.
Actually the report say they plan on trials to happen over the next 6-9 months and then optimize it in different stages you can see the "plans" in the report http://www.funcom.com/funcom/frontend/files/CONTENT/FUNCOM-Q408-presentation.pdf
It's more likely they do this around the anniversary which is closer to the earlier treshold of their planned period.
I agree they should give 2 weeks ate minimum for old accounts, regular trials could be 7 to 14 days, accounts from start should receive more, specially CE accounts and preorders.
Ya, their plan has changed since Q3/08. See that's the problem. If they can't follow the timeline from Q3, why do you think they will follow their Q4 guidelines?
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
the overall improvements in their management, game performance and implementation during the period, but yes that's not much, also the fact that Q4 reflects more closely the period where they stops being in dire emergency and can star building up from there, pointless to make a win back campaign if the main concerns havn been properly addressed yet.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Because many of the players at launch didn't get their 30 days because it was unplayable for so many? There will be a lot of people doing rerolls on a new server because their original one no longer exsists. 'A free week in Tortage' isn't gonna keep a returning player, they got scammed by that tactic once already. They need to see that the big content holes are gone and associated grind is gone.
At this point FC should be doing everything they can to entice a returning player, free month, free transfers, discount on multi-month subs, even hands and knees begging. it will take a lot to get back even a small portion of those who left and they need teh subs.
/sigh
Could please back that up with something else than the word "failure"?
I can help you out here. You say "the PvP system is a failure because..." and then follow up with a *reason* as to why the PvP system is a failure.
Do you really need a re-hash of ALL of the things players had serious issues with in every single thread? I am pretty sure you are very familiar with the 'counter-view' and the things players found dissapointing by now.
The counter-views that has been torn to shreds time and time again? Yes, it seems like we need to do that again, as it seems it cannot be done enough.
Why don't you tell me why the PvP system is a failure? And before we start, what are we comparing it against in order to call it a failure? World of Warcraft? Warhammer? Both?
PVP System being a failure can tie into the class balance issue. Pretty awesome when you can be stealthed and take a pot shot on a guy before he knows where you are and kill him by the time he takes 5 steps towards you (95 more to go). Did I mention that unfortunate soul was a tank class?
You can go on for ages arguing and defending the few things that were done right (assuming they worked and weren't bugged) and the things that completely destroy the game. AoC had as much potential to be an awesome game like Vanguard did. Great potential, great ideas/lore behind the games. Complete failures when looked at, comparing their good to bad. In the end with certain games the only people defending it will be the hardcore fans that seem to have unlimited cash to throw into these money pits.
I'm in no way trying to say that every "successful" game out there like WoW and other well known MMOs are the top of their class and deserve the clouds to part, the sun to shine and trumpets to blast a resounding sound around the world but obviously those games, while not appealing to everyone are doing something right as they're still around and still going strong.
There will always be games that fail and die, sometimes a slow painful death. Some that are mediocre and survive and milk as much money as they can. And then the well known, popular games that redefine the MMO world for their generation. Now I know i'll probably get flamed and it might be blasphemy to say it but how long until WoW is no longer on top? Eventually that game will dwindle and die as something new that offers a majority of the MMO populace something they want and holds their attention. When that happens as gamers we either adapt and find something else that appeals to us or you freak out and go live with the Amish.
I could be wrong but i truly get the feeling FC is just stringing people along for as long as they can. Ive seen a trend lately of PC games not being finished at launch. Not just mmo;s but single player games as well. Some ligit reasons are hardware combinations at this time are so varied that it would be hard to make a game run on every concievable combanation. Having said that $50 for a game with the promise of a patch later seems a bit extreme to me. However most single player games are patched in a short time after release and the "good" mmo companies work hard to patch as they go along....how long has FC been stringing folks along now with promises of the good things to come? For those of you who like the game i think thats great but the constant dumping on games that actually run and maintain a decent player base is a bit extreme.
/sigh
Could please back that up with something else than the word "failure"?
I can help you out here. You say "the PvP system is a failure because..." and then follow up with a *reason* as to why the PvP system is a failure.
Do you really need a re-hash of ALL of the things players had serious issues with in every single thread? I am pretty sure you are very familiar with the 'counter-view' and the things players found dissapointing by now.
The counter-views that has been torn to shreds time and time again? Yes, it seems like we need to do that again, as it seems it cannot be done enough.
Why don't you tell me why the PvP system is a failure? And before we start, what are we comparing it against in order to call it a failure? World of Warcraft? Warhammer? Both?
PVP System being a failure can tie into the class balance issue. Pretty awesome when you can be stealthed and take a pot shot on a guy before he knows where you are and kill him by the time he takes 5 steps towards you (95 more to go). Did I mention that unfortunate soul was a tank class?
You can go on for ages arguing and defending the few things that were done right (assuming they worked and weren't bugged) and the things that completely destroy the game. AoC had as much potential to be an awesome game like Vanguard did. Great potential, great ideas/lore behind the games. Complete failures when looked at, comparing their good to bad. In the end with certain games the only people defending it will be the hardcore fans that seem to have unlimited cash to throw into these money pits.
Tortage and the 20 first levels was a success. Even though the crashes and long lasting (re)loading screens ruined a lot of gameplay, the monkey kings treasure and the bananas in the beginning made it worth waiting.
Apprenticeship system was a blast. 19 levels behind your friend? No problem, press a button and you can play with him/her!
Combatsystem with or without spells was awesome. Combos
The eternal quests that did not function ruined a lot of the experience. "Pick 20 Cotton". I press the bush and no Cotton in my inventory even if it indicates that the Cotton Node is being picked. - F*** tradeskills, I'm going to level instead!
20 levels later I run out of quest and proud as I am I keep grinding my way to the max level. Finally at the max level I realize I picked the wrong class. I get killed in one second by some player classes. And others I kill in one blow even though I'm a healer. Anyone remember the Crossbow talenttree headshot spell? Yes, that ability oneshot me.
So summary: It is a blast to level up, but once at the highest level you can cancel your subscription. Or repeat the above procedure.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Because many of the players at launch didn't get their 30 days because it was unplayable for so many? There will be a lot of people doing rerolls on a new server because their original one no longer exsists. 'A free week in Tortage' isn't gonna keep a returning player, they got scammed by that tactic once already. They need to see that the big content holes are gone and associated grind is gone.
At this point FC should be doing everything they can to entice a returning player, free month, free transfers, discount on multi-month subs, even hands and knees begging. it will take a lot to get back even a small portion of those who left and they need teh subs.
I am a casual player maybe 1-2 hrs a night. It doesn't take a week to finish Tortage. Even when I was new to the game it did not take that long to finish Tortage even with the lag, bugs, and crashes back in May/June.
And 10-15 days is close to two weeks. Plenty of time to get out of Tortage, explore and know if you enjoy the game.
No, what I'm worried about is people like you that hold this massive grudge against Funcom, "Still waiting for my refund check". People like that who will log into the game knowning they will never sub and cause all kinds of trouble in global chat. Hey maybe they can disable global chat for free accounts and it will cut down on trolls.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
This.
I might give AoC a try if I get a new free month to replace the ruined one back when it launched. But out of principle I'm leaning towards never giving FC another chance. Not falling for that crap again.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Because many of the players at launch didn't get their 30 days because it was unplayable for so many? There will be a lot of people doing rerolls on a new server because their original one no longer exsists. 'A free week in Tortage' isn't gonna keep a returning player, they got scammed by that tactic once already. They need to see that the big content holes are gone and associated grind is gone.
At this point FC should be doing everything they can to entice a returning player, free month, free transfers, discount on multi-month subs, even hands and knees begging. it will take a lot to get back even a small portion of those who left and they need teh subs.
I am a casual player maybe 1-2 hrs a night. It doesn't take a week to finish Tortage. Even when I was new to the game it did not take that long to finish Tortage even with the lag, bugs, and crashes back in May/June.
And 10-15 days is close to two weeks. Plenty of time to get out of Tortage, explore and know if you enjoy the game.
No, what I'm worried about is people like you that hold this massive grudge against Funcom, "Still waiting for my refund check". People like that who will log into the game knowning they will never sub and cause all kinds of trouble in global chat. Hey maybe they can disable global chat for free accounts and it will cut down on trolls.
I have no reason currently to re-visit Age of Conan even with a free trial, the things that made me quit have not been solved. And regardless of what you may think of me personally, logging into grief peoples fun isn't my idea of a good time.
Odd that the current players fear returning players, I thought you guys were gungo-ho for re-reviews, higher popualtions, more subs and the faster development cycle. As for global chat getting fubared by angry hate screamers, it's going on right this second according to my friends who still log in, and the ignore fuction still works.
More than 15 days is needed to get players back to where they left off when most quit, a ton of us were at end game trying to play threw the broken sieging and raids. Is 15 days going to get a 1-2 hr / day player to the much bragged about Ymir's pass before the clock expires?
Can't vote because your try again option didn't mention if it was free. No way I give FC money before I see the goods.
Problem with relaunching AoC anyway is that the game dynamic was geared towards attracting large guilds to join as groups and drive the game's core dynamics of pvp. Well a lot of those guilds tried it already and left. I don't see those guilds coming back en masse to try it again. Which means AoC will have a much longer cycle of getting a strong player base back into the game (IF the game is even any good in the future) to build up large strong guilds. And that long cycle time would be a heavy strain on a game that many see as failed already.
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Some people don't have more than 1 hour a day for gaming. 10 days is not enough for these people so I think a longer time would be better. Also 1 month could be an unofficial "apology" to all those players Funcom lied in order to get their beta testing money.
Trollin time..............................Heeeeeheeeee.
emm 20 Starbucks a month should cover it....../chuckles
Please god no free month! 10-15 days max is good enough. You know darn well if you plan to resub in that time frame. What do you need a month for?
Some people don't have more than 1 hour a day for gaming. 10 days is not enough for these people so I think a longer time would be better. Also 1 month could be an unofficial "apology" to all those players Funcom lied in order to get their beta testing money.
i agree with this. I dont just want the time to test out changes. I want the time back to level up and convince friends to come back as well if it were the case. I got ripped for my first month and couldnt play half of it. The content past the half way mark was vapor at best. I say a free month maybe more. The only reason to stay longer would be if raiding and endgame was fun. If Funcom has really addressed those issues they should have no problem wiht a free month for those players who were involved at launch and pre-order / early release.