I think homosexuality is both a choice and a genetic disorder. When genetically designed/altered/enhanced/corrected babies are possible there will be less cases of homosexuality; leaving only those who do so by choice. Does religious marriage matter at that point, even when there are civil unions? That time will become an interesting time; for not only will there be some kind of movement to prevent unborn babies from no longer being homosexual (or parents wanting their babies to be homosexual), but also of genetically enhanced vs normals.
Something to think about.
If it is a genetic disorder then why are there so many of them when they normally don't pass the affected genes on? Sure there are horrific diseases that prevent people from having children or kill people before childbearing age but these disorders occur in a small sliver of the population, not 10% or whatever the current figure is. I think it is a choice.
Sigh. If it was a choice, why would people choose to choose to be something that is ostracised, hated, and openly discriminated against in the general sphere of the public eye? Homosexuality is not a choice, it's not unnatural. It's inherent within all higher mammal species (and even some avians). Every species that has sex out of the fertile period practices homosexual relationships: humans, dolphins and bonobos.
I generally don't base how I should act on how wild animals act. Justifying the rewriting of widely accepted and ancient social norms by observing birds and apes seems pretty destructive to me. I don't care if people are gay. I do care when they force changes in social institutions. Be gay and happy, I don't care. But don't tell me I have to accept it as normal and tell my kids that Joe and Jack are the same as Joe and Mary.
It is very common practice in the clinical and laboratory setting to observe what occurs with animals and use that to extrapolate what might be occurring with the human species. For instance, while we do not share exact biological traits with chimpanzees, we are close enough genetically that testing is done on the primates before human testing is done. Now, you might be able to say that if one, two, or maybe even three or four of another animal species exhibited homosexual tendencies then that might not be worth considering. However, that is not the case. The number of species that exhibit this behavior is growing all the time and is so far in the thousands! At some point you have to say, okay this is something to consider. Perhaps it's not the end all of end all evidence that homosexuality is natural, but it is a large piece of evidence to throw into the argument.
Now, let me give you another even larger piece of evidence; I am gay and I did not choose to be gay. I am of sound mind and that is my statement. I never sat down, looked around at the world and one day took it upon myself to change my entire sexual preference and emotional ability for who I can fall in love with. I have however tried tirelessly to change to being straight. I did it for a long long time and it did not work. No matter what I tried nothing worked. I come from a family with two parents who are married, they are male and female, they are very religious, and our family was taught that homosexuality is wrong. So, obviously it is not my parents fault. Ever since I was an infant every example of love was between a man and woman. So, the nurture thing, I ain't buying that so much. And just to add this in, about the only "nurturing" I get from my parents now is a phone hung up on me when I try to call them. They don't speak to me anymore.
So, I would think that if you hear from countless homosexuals that they did not choose to be gay, then you look at the number of homosexuals that have tried to be straight with no success, and you look at the treatment that we have to put up with from your homosexual counterparts who try their hardest to make our lives painful and depressing, at some point you have to stop and think that maybe you're wrong.
Oh, and on the social norms, we're not trying to change anything except how the government treats its citizens. I am an American and I deserve the same legal treatment as every other American. My religion says that gay marriage is okay. If the government recognizes one religion over another, then it is breaking the law.
And if you want to talk about how changing social norms is wrong to you, then about the only place you're going to be safe is ina bubble tucked away from everyone. Sorry, but things change. Social norms are always changing. If you don't like it then go out and tell someone, but don't use the government to try and force behavior (or religious) changes on people. Especially when I'm just practicing my religion.
The gay mafia IS trying to change social norms by branding people like me who wholeheartedly disagree with gay marriage as hateful and ignorant. I am neither hateful nor ignorant. World culture naturally developed the institution of marriage as part of its evolution. Naturally, a caveman chooses a cave woman or two and protects them and the cave women have his babies, strengthening the species. Gay marriage is not this, period. Call it what you want; do what you want; but, don't hijack an institution because you want to feel equal to something you are not equal to. And just to preface the flames for that statement, equal doesn't mean worse or better so stop.
And as far as the consequences of hijacking the institution of marriage is concerned, as we all know it is coming eventually with the vicious cycle of moral degradation our country is now experiencing, there are a lot of underlying effects that will matter. The Federal government which has historically traded economic and material benefits to traditional couples for having babies will have to start giving these benefits to people that aren't actually producing anything long-term for the government.
Ok. Let's bring in official dictionary definitions shall we.
Oxford English Dictionary.
marriage
• noun 1 the formal union of a man and a woman, by which they become husband and wife. 2 a combination of two or more elements.
— PHRASES marriage of convenience a marriage concluded primarily to achieve a practical purpose.
— ORIGIN Old French mariage, from marier ‘marry’.
You can look further into the etymology if you like and go back to the latin roots.
So thats sorted then. Marriage IS the joining of man and woman. Unless of course you consider homosexuals as "elements".
There are various newer meanings you can go with which say "a union of two people" but the basic premise of marriage is male and female joined in matrimony.
Now. Marriage as an instituation is ancient. The ancient greeks got married. This is where we get to the rub. "Relationships" between men, especially in the army (in the army eh? who'd have thought it ), were positively encouraged. So how far back do you want to go? Is that far enough?
So thats the arguement for marriage between homosexuals over. Or should be at least.
What we come to now though is marriage in the eyes of the law. The legal implications. This is where things start to come unstuck. All the time it is refered to as "Gay Marriage" or "Same-sex marriage" it is going to run into problems. So we remove those problems. Marriage turns into a purely religious ceremony that joins the man and wonam in "holy" matrimony in the eyes of the Lord and all that jazz. This ceremony should of course have the legal bindings that are required for it to be a "Civil Partnership" but the marriage part is the religious part. The "traditional" wedding if you will.
The key words though are "Civil Partnership".
There is no reason why, in the eyes of the law, two men can not enter into a civil partnership with EXACTLY the same legal constrictions as a man and a woman entering into a cibvil partnership. They can even call it marriage if they want. After all it's a free country........isn't it?
As to the rightness/wrongness of homeosexuality then I can't really comment........but I will
We are ALL. Man and Woman BISEXUAL. It is religion which has indocrinated people into believing anything else. As I said. Look at history. Alexander the Great conquered half the known world. He was also bi-sexual. ALL men were in those days. It strengthened ties and trust between 2 men who were expected to be sword and shield fighting as a unit. The armies were stronger for it (strange concept eh?).
Before I get attacked for blaming religion, as i'm sure I will be, I do understand why this time. Disease. And no I am NOT saying it's dirty to be homosexual. It was thought to help transmit disease so it was stopped. Now in this day an age thats not a problem we have so religion should really start to change to be more liberal and open minded.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
I think homosexuality is both a choice and a genetic disorder. When genetically designed/altered/enhanced/corrected babies are possible there will be less cases of homosexuality; leaving only those who do so by choice. Does religious marriage matter at that point, even when there are civil unions? That time will become an interesting time; for not only will there be some kind of movement to prevent unborn babies from no longer being homosexual (or parents wanting their babies to be homosexual), but also of genetically enhanced vs normals.
Something to think about.
If it is a genetic disorder then why are there so many of them when they normally don't pass the affected genes on? Sure there are horrific diseases that prevent people from having children or kill people before childbearing age but these disorders occur in a small sliver of the population, not 10% or whatever the current figure is. I think it is a choice.
Sigh. If it was a choice, why would people choose to choose to be something that is ostracised, hated, and openly discriminated against in the general sphere of the public eye? Homosexuality is not a choice, it's not unnatural. It's inherent within all higher mammal species (and even some avians). Every species that has sex out of the fertile period practices homosexual relationships: humans, dolphins and bonobos.
I generally don't base how I should act on how wild animals act. Justifying the rewriting of widely accepted and ancient social norms by observing birds and apes seems pretty destructive to me. I don't care if people are gay. I do care when they force changes in social institutions. Be gay and happy, I don't care. But don't tell me I have to accept it as normal and tell my kids that Joe and Jack are the same as Joe and Mary.
It is very common practice in the clinical and laboratory setting to observe what occurs with animals and use that to extrapolate what might be occurring with the human species. For instance, while we do not share exact biological traits with chimpanzees, we are close enough genetically that testing is done on the primates before human testing is done. Now, you might be able to say that if one, two, or maybe even three or four of another animal species exhibited homosexual tendencies then that might not be worth considering. However, that is not the case. The number of species that exhibit this behavior is growing all the time and is so far in the thousands! At some point you have to say, okay this is something to consider. Perhaps it's not the end all of end all evidence that homosexuality is natural, but it is a large piece of evidence to throw into the argument.
Now, let me give you another even larger piece of evidence; I am gay and I did not choose to be gay. I am of sound mind and that is my statement. I never sat down, looked around at the world and one day took it upon myself to change my entire sexual preference and emotional ability for who I can fall in love with. I have however tried tirelessly to change to being straight. I did it for a long long time and it did not work. No matter what I tried nothing worked. I come from a family with two parents who are married, they are male and female, they are very religious, and our family was taught that homosexuality is wrong. So, obviously it is not my parents fault. Ever since I was an infant every example of love was between a man and woman. So, the nurture thing, I ain't buying that so much. And just to add this in, about the only "nurturing" I get from my parents now is a phone hung up on me when I try to call them. They don't speak to me anymore.
So, I would think that if you hear from countless homosexuals that they did not choose to be gay, then you look at the number of homosexuals that have tried to be straight with no success, and you look at the treatment that we have to put up with from your homosexual counterparts who try their hardest to make our lives painful and depressing, at some point you have to stop and think that maybe you're wrong.
Oh, and on the social norms, we're not trying to change anything except how the government treats its citizens. I am an American and I deserve the same legal treatment as every other American. My religion says that gay marriage is okay. If the government recognizes one religion over another, then it is breaking the law.
And if you want to talk about how changing social norms is wrong to you, then about the only place you're going to be safe is ina bubble tucked away from everyone. Sorry, but things change. Social norms are always changing. If you don't like it then go out and tell someone, but don't use the government to try and force behavior (or religious) changes on people. Especially when I'm just practicing my religion.
The gay mafia IS trying to change social norms by branding people like me who wholeheartedly disagree with gay marriage as hateful and ignorant. I am neither hateful nor ignorant. World culture naturally developed the institution of marriage as part of its evolution. Naturally, a caveman chooses a cave woman or two and protects them and the cave women have his babies, strengthening the species. Gay marriage is not this, period. Call it what you want; do what you want; but, don't hijack an institution because you want to feel equal to something you are not equal to. And just to preface the flames for that statement, equal doesn't mean worse or better so stop.
And as far as the consequences of hijacking the institution of marriage is concerned, as we all know it is coming eventually with the vicious cycle of moral degradation our country is now experiencing, there are a lot of underlying effects that will matter. The Federal government which has historically traded economic and material benefits to traditional couples for having babies will have to start giving these benefits to people that aren't actually producing anything long-term for the government.
Talk about branding!?!?!? Go back and read what you just wrote. The "gay mafia"??? You even went so far as call me the moral degradation of the country! You want to know some other branding that has been placed upon us? I don't think I really need to list them because I'm quite certain it wouldn't take you too long to come up with a list yourself.
First off, you don't know me or anything about my morality. I am a Christian. I believe that Christ died for our sins and I find that single act the most beautiful thing that anyone has done for man ever! Now, my Christian church that I attend regularly performs gay marriages. I have been to other denominational weddings for same sex couples as well, including Jewish weddings. Yes, there are Jewish same sex marriages too. Surprised?
My morality is that I should find a person and get into a relationship with them and make a commitment of our love. I am not the type to go sleeping around or playing the field (as I see quite a few of my straight friends do with no regard). My church teaches me this as well and celebrates our loving relationships as real and worth recognizing in the eyes of the Lord through the act of marriage.
Now, I have no problem with you if your church teaches you different. Have at it. I am not going to brand you as anything until you come and start trying to use the government to take away my equal rights under the law. At that point you've crossed the line. And when the government recognizes one type of religious ceremony over another, it too has crossed the line.
You want a solution to this, it's simple. Get the government out of the marriage recognition business. This starts by also getting rid of these automatic marriage recognitions and breaks. If you aren't going to get rid of those, then your damned right I'm going to make a fuss about things. Because it's un-Constitutional. The government recognizing one religion over another absolutely is the government stepping over its bounds.
As far as branding goes, maybe you should stop the branding. I never joined a mafia, nor is it my intention to morally degradate this country. I am simply a person trying to live my life as an American. I respect what this country is and what it promises its people. I pay taxes too, and I live here as well. I contribute to the well being of this nation and I do not in any way deserve to be pushed down to second class by some "moral majority".
Honestly I see no issue with blaming religion as it is in all honesty the cause of much hardship and through history was used to control people and is still used as a weapon today. Religion is and was and perhaps always will be used as a weapon to get others to believe in the same things as you. But I still believe it is some ones right to believe in a god. Of course since im a non-believer I will most likely be flamed myself for thinking different.
*edit add* I dont mean blaming it completely for everything in the current discussion since in the end it is our choice*
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
Because all man sin when the disobeyed and ate the apple from the serpent, Jesus is supposed to absorb the sins off all man when he was sacrificed. Accepting Jesus is supposed to grant you access to Heaven. Am I incorrect?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
all the views are very interesting, but gay marriage will be inevitably allowed but it will take ALONG VERY LONG time to get allowed, so why everyone is having a hatred spree i have yet to wonder, but everyone is allowed to there own opinions i suppose
Should not be allowed. I meen you cant breed with shit on your dick.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Thanks for sharing your scary interpretation of God's love for us. Yikes! I wonder if you know what Leviticus is all about, or that Jesus came to visit us since that was written? No wonder so many people run when they hear what you have to say. I would too.
But hey, if you want to go read scary stuff like that and call it love for mankind, then that's all you. My church doesn't teach that however. I do hear there is a nice guy named Fred Phelps who concurs with your views and interpretations on those texts however. You guys should hang out sometime.
Now, back to the issue. Like I said, my church does not teach that and does perform gay marriages. It is my religious practice. You're free to your spooky one, and I would like the same respect towards me when it comes to our version. We won't go and get the government to force you to "believe" one way and it would be nice to have the favor returned.
In the meantime, that's just what you're doing if you pass legislation for the government not to recognize my religious practice. You're using the government to pick one religion over another. That is not what the Constitution says we are supposed to do in our free nation. Therefore, I demand my equal rights. If your religious marriage is recognized, then so should my religious marriage be recognized as well and all those nice breaks and privileges that you folks automatically get from that recognition.
ok civil rights is fine and dandy, but im sure if you were to get married in texas in the area where i am at , you would get shot in less than half a second. but thats not the point, from my stand point the goverment is trying to maintain civil order not pick one religion over another, this has NOTHING to do with religion what soever on my stand point, i may be wrong, but from what i see its trying to maintain civil order among american citizens, im sure you wouldnt enjoy seeing a riot outside your window with a sign saying "NO GAY MARRIAGES", that would soon turn into physical violence to show how serious they are, seeing how the amercian life has shown it.
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Thanks for sharing your scary interpretation of God's love for us. Yikes! I wonder if you know what Leviticus is all about, or that Jesus came to visit us since that was written? No wonder so many people run when they hear what you have to say. I would too.
But hey, if you want to go read scary stuff like that and call it love for mankind, then that's all you. My church doesn't teach that however. I do hear there is a nice guy named Fred Phelps who concurs with your views and interpretations on those texts however. You guys should hang out sometime.
Now, back to the issue. Like I said, my church does not teach that and does perform gay marriages. It is my religious practice. You're free to your spooky one, and I would like the same respect towards me when it comes to our version. We won't go and get the government to force you to "believe" one way and it would be nice to have the favor returned.
In the meantime, that's just what you're doing if you pass legislation for the government not to recognize my religious practice. You're using the government to pick one religion over another. That is not what the Constitution says we are supposed to do in our free nation. Therefore, I demand my equal rights. If your religious marriage is recognized, then so should my religious marriage be recognized as well and all those nice breaks and privileges that you folks automatically get from that recognition.
What about those that leave the gay life style,what about Sodom and Gomorrah,it wasn't destroyed because they where obeying gods law.
Upallnight i read all your thoughts on this matter and I'm well aware that we disagree on this subject,but Jesus came back to enforce gods law not change it.
When they came to stone the women to death for a simple act of adultery and Jesus intervened and said to her go and sin no more,the implication was she was to stop what she was doing..he didn't give her permission to continue with the adultery.And he didn't comdemn her either,inforceing his love and protection for her.Just if he was to meet you now and say to you go and sin no more.
We all have our cross to bare.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Originally posted by frodus What about those that leave the gay life style,what about Sodom and Gomorrah,it wasn't destroyed because they where obeying gods law. Upallnight i read all your thoughts on this matter and I'm well aware that we disagree on this subject,but Jesus came back to enforce gods law not change it. When they came to stone the women to death for a simple act of adultery and Jesus intervened and said to her go and sin no more,the implication was she was to stop what she was doing..he didn't give her permission to continue with the adultery.And he didn't comdemn her either,inforceing his love and protection for her.Just if he was to meet you now and say to you go and sin no more. We all have our cross to bare.
Does this mean that when jesus comes back he's going to be a heroin taking, weed smoking, cocaine snorting junkie? wow
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Thanks for sharing your scary interpretation of God's love for us. Yikes! I wonder if you know what Leviticus is all about, or that Jesus came to visit us since that was written? No wonder so many people run when they hear what you have to say. I would too.
But hey, if you want to go read scary stuff like that and call it love for mankind, then that's all you. My church doesn't teach that however. I do hear there is a nice guy named Fred Phelps who concurs with your views and interpretations on those texts however. You guys should hang out sometime.
Now, back to the issue. Like I said, my church does not teach that and does perform gay marriages. It is my religious practice. You're free to your spooky one, and I would like the same respect towards me when it comes to our version. We won't go and get the government to force you to "believe" one way and it would be nice to have the favor returned.
In the meantime, that's just what you're doing if you pass legislation for the government not to recognize my religious practice. You're using the government to pick one religion over another. That is not what the Constitution says we are supposed to do in our free nation. Therefore, I demand my equal rights. If your religious marriage is recognized, then so should my religious marriage be recognized as well and all those nice breaks and privileges that you folks automatically get from that recognition.
What about those that leave the gay life style,what about Sodom and Gomorrah,it wasn't destroyed because they where obeying gods law.
Upallnight i read all your thoughts on this matter and I'm well aware that we disagree on this subject,but Jesus came back to enforce gods law not change it.
When they came to stone the women to death for a simple act of adultery and Jesus intervened and said to her go and sin no more,the implication was she was to stop what she was doing..he didn't give her permission to continue with the adultery.And he didn't comdemn her either,inforceing his love and protection for her.Just if he was to meet you now and say to you go and sin no more.
We all have our cross to bare.
Again, you keep bringing up your religious problems with this. All the while you are not recognizing that this is not a religious issue. This is an issue between you and the Constitution and Bill of Rights of this country. The government is not supposed to show favor to one religion over another. It's all there if you want to read it.
If you want to have a religious debate then go have it with someone you might persuade. But there are a lot of us who have already chosen our religion and church and mine do not condemn gay marriage. And if the government decides to recognize one religious practice over another, then it is going agains the founding documents of this country. You have now stepped across the line of "equal rights for all" into the realm of "rights if you're in the majority". That is not America.
I'm not going to get into a religious debate here with you. I've found my way to Christ and that's all you need to know about me. I've got my church and my salvation. And it does not include a scary rendition or interpretation of God. Try using the scare tactics on someone who might be more susceptible to them.
Oh, and I'm not usually one to correct people on their spelling being about as dyslexic as they come, but it's not bare it is bear. If you "bare" a cross then you are unwrapping it. I think you were trying to imply that I am instead supposed to have that cross as a burden. And while I'm at it, might I suggest that you too have your cross to bear as well, perhaps one of non-judgment on others and their lives. Or perhaps your cross is to let others find their salvation in their own way instead of you trying to force your beliefs on others. And when you start using the government to manipulate peoples behavior, you are forcing your beliefs on them.
ok civil rights is fine and dandy, but im sure if you were to get married in texas in the area where i am at , you would get shot in less than half a second. but thats not the point, from my stand point the goverment is trying to maintain civil order not pick one religion over another, this has NOTHING to do with religion what soever on my stand point, i may be wrong, but from what i see its trying to maintain civil order among american citizens, im sure you wouldnt enjoy seeing a riot outside your window with a sign saying "NO GAY MARRIAGES", that would soon turn into physical violence to show how serious they are, seeing how the amercian life has shown it.
All this tells me is that Texas is still extremely bigoted and stuck in the dark ages. Didn't you use to do the same to black people? Actuaaly if you look at the number of "lynchings" in the USA today i think Texas is still right up near the top of the list. Maybe beaten by Alabama but hey. In Alabama can't you marry a horse?
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Should not be allowed. I meen you cant breed with shit on your dick.
Well neither can you so whats your point or are you just increasing your post count like the guy who bumped this tired old topic.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Now if a Christian or Muslim comes to your house and shoots you dead on in the face, it'd be nothing to worry about, you deserved it. Yea, you f*cking prick, you heard right.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Crackin on a different state, humurous to you im sure but back to the point, you are not understanding that the government is trying to hold civil order, take that into thought for a second before making your fool hearty jokes mate, im sure in new jersey or another state there will be some moron who hates gays like crazy and will pop a cap in there head, but hey thats me mate, im only looking beyond the "hey its because there favoring one religion over another" sights
Crackin on a different state, humurous to you im sure but back to the point, you are not understanding that the government is trying to hold civil order, take that into thought for a second before making your fool hearty jokes mate, im sure in new jersey or another state there will be some moron who hates gays like crazy and will pop a cap in there head, but hey thats me mate, im only looking beyond the "hey its because there favoring one religion over another" sights
I don't think we're supposed to run inside of our houses in fear when someone challenges liberty and freedom. I spent some time in a place where there really were some people trying to "pop a cap" in my head, as you put it. I would go fight anywhere I was sent again. I believe in what this country stands for and I believe in the freedom and equal rights of its people.
My suspicion is that most of the gay people feel that way too. I know there is a this stereotype of them being weak, but in all actuality, the gay people I've met have been some pretty headstrong folks. They know what it's like to be called names and scorned and told they are not worth having the rights of this country. And I'm guessing they're about ready to show they're tired of it. Despite the threats.
As far as the government protecting people goes, screw that. The only thing they can do is show up after something occurs. I'm quite happy if they left me alone and let me take care of myself. I don't really need its kind of "protection".
I'm just curious about something though. Why would you bring up New Jersey? Are they supposed to be some fag jumping bad asses or something? Pffffttt... Picking on a minority is pretty weak if you ask me. I think they're going to be pretty surprised when they find out that they're not up against a group that intends to back down. And the gays have got plenty of straight supporters (like myself) who'll be right there to defend them if needed as well. I don't like people trying to shut people up or take away their rights. It makes me pretty damned angry.
Comments
If it is a genetic disorder then why are there so many of them when they normally don't pass the affected genes on? Sure there are horrific diseases that prevent people from having children or kill people before childbearing age but these disorders occur in a small sliver of the population, not 10% or whatever the current figure is. I think it is a choice.
Sigh. If it was a choice, why would people choose to choose to be something that is ostracised, hated, and openly discriminated against in the general sphere of the public eye? Homosexuality is not a choice, it's not unnatural. It's inherent within all higher mammal species (and even some avians). Every species that has sex out of the fertile period practices homosexual relationships: humans, dolphins and bonobos.
I generally don't base how I should act on how wild animals act. Justifying the rewriting of widely accepted and ancient social norms by observing birds and apes seems pretty destructive to me. I don't care if people are gay. I do care when they force changes in social institutions. Be gay and happy, I don't care. But don't tell me I have to accept it as normal and tell my kids that Joe and Jack are the same as Joe and Mary.
It is very common practice in the clinical and laboratory setting to observe what occurs with animals and use that to extrapolate what might be occurring with the human species. For instance, while we do not share exact biological traits with chimpanzees, we are close enough genetically that testing is done on the primates before human testing is done. Now, you might be able to say that if one, two, or maybe even three or four of another animal species exhibited homosexual tendencies then that might not be worth considering. However, that is not the case. The number of species that exhibit this behavior is growing all the time and is so far in the thousands! At some point you have to say, okay this is something to consider. Perhaps it's not the end all of end all evidence that homosexuality is natural, but it is a large piece of evidence to throw into the argument.
Now, let me give you another even larger piece of evidence; I am gay and I did not choose to be gay. I am of sound mind and that is my statement. I never sat down, looked around at the world and one day took it upon myself to change my entire sexual preference and emotional ability for who I can fall in love with. I have however tried tirelessly to change to being straight. I did it for a long long time and it did not work. No matter what I tried nothing worked. I come from a family with two parents who are married, they are male and female, they are very religious, and our family was taught that homosexuality is wrong. So, obviously it is not my parents fault. Ever since I was an infant every example of love was between a man and woman. So, the nurture thing, I ain't buying that so much. And just to add this in, about the only "nurturing" I get from my parents now is a phone hung up on me when I try to call them. They don't speak to me anymore.
So, I would think that if you hear from countless homosexuals that they did not choose to be gay, then you look at the number of homosexuals that have tried to be straight with no success, and you look at the treatment that we have to put up with from your homosexual counterparts who try their hardest to make our lives painful and depressing, at some point you have to stop and think that maybe you're wrong.
Oh, and on the social norms, we're not trying to change anything except how the government treats its citizens. I am an American and I deserve the same legal treatment as every other American. My religion says that gay marriage is okay. If the government recognizes one religion over another, then it is breaking the law.
And if you want to talk about how changing social norms is wrong to you, then about the only place you're going to be safe is ina bubble tucked away from everyone. Sorry, but things change. Social norms are always changing. If you don't like it then go out and tell someone, but don't use the government to try and force behavior (or religious) changes on people. Especially when I'm just practicing my religion.
The gay mafia IS trying to change social norms by branding people like me who wholeheartedly disagree with gay marriage as hateful and ignorant. I am neither hateful nor ignorant. World culture naturally developed the institution of marriage as part of its evolution. Naturally, a caveman chooses a cave woman or two and protects them and the cave women have his babies, strengthening the species. Gay marriage is not this, period. Call it what you want; do what you want; but, don't hijack an institution because you want to feel equal to something you are not equal to. And just to preface the flames for that statement, equal doesn't mean worse or better so stop.
And as far as the consequences of hijacking the institution of marriage is concerned, as we all know it is coming eventually with the vicious cycle of moral degradation our country is now experiencing, there are a lot of underlying effects that will matter. The Federal government which has historically traded economic and material benefits to traditional couples for having babies will have to start giving these benefits to people that aren't actually producing anything long-term for the government.
Ok. Let's bring in official dictionary definitions shall we.
Oxford English Dictionary.
marriage
• noun 1 the formal union of a man and a woman, by which they become husband and wife. 2 a combination of two or more elements.
— PHRASES marriage of convenience a marriage concluded primarily to achieve a practical purpose.
— ORIGIN Old French mariage, from marier ‘marry’.
You can look further into the etymology if you like and go back to the latin roots.
So thats sorted then. Marriage IS the joining of man and woman. Unless of course you consider homosexuals as "elements".
There are various newer meanings you can go with which say "a union of two people" but the basic premise of marriage is male and female joined in matrimony.
Now. Marriage as an instituation is ancient. The ancient greeks got married. This is where we get to the rub. "Relationships" between men, especially in the army (in the army eh? who'd have thought it ), were positively encouraged. So how far back do you want to go? Is that far enough?
So thats the arguement for marriage between homosexuals over. Or should be at least.
What we come to now though is marriage in the eyes of the law. The legal implications. This is where things start to come unstuck. All the time it is refered to as "Gay Marriage" or "Same-sex marriage" it is going to run into problems. So we remove those problems. Marriage turns into a purely religious ceremony that joins the man and wonam in "holy" matrimony in the eyes of the Lord and all that jazz. This ceremony should of course have the legal bindings that are required for it to be a "Civil Partnership" but the marriage part is the religious part. The "traditional" wedding if you will.
The key words though are "Civil Partnership".
There is no reason why, in the eyes of the law, two men can not enter into a civil partnership with EXACTLY the same legal constrictions as a man and a woman entering into a cibvil partnership. They can even call it marriage if they want. After all it's a free country........isn't it?
As to the rightness/wrongness of homeosexuality then I can't really comment........but I will
We are ALL. Man and Woman BISEXUAL. It is religion which has indocrinated people into believing anything else. As I said. Look at history. Alexander the Great conquered half the known world. He was also bi-sexual. ALL men were in those days. It strengthened ties and trust between 2 men who were expected to be sword and shield fighting as a unit. The armies were stronger for it (strange concept eh?).
Before I get attacked for blaming religion, as i'm sure I will be, I do understand why this time. Disease. And no I am NOT saying it's dirty to be homosexual. It was thought to help transmit disease so it was stopped. Now in this day an age thats not a problem we have so religion should really start to change to be more liberal and open minded.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Getting back on topic to the video, that guy has a great shirt.
And if you want to know why gays are not in the military.
If it is a genetic disorder then why are there so many of them when they normally don't pass the affected genes on? Sure there are horrific diseases that prevent people from having children or kill people before childbearing age but these disorders occur in a small sliver of the population, not 10% or whatever the current figure is. I think it is a choice.
Sigh. If it was a choice, why would people choose to choose to be something that is ostracised, hated, and openly discriminated against in the general sphere of the public eye? Homosexuality is not a choice, it's not unnatural. It's inherent within all higher mammal species (and even some avians). Every species that has sex out of the fertile period practices homosexual relationships: humans, dolphins and bonobos.
I generally don't base how I should act on how wild animals act. Justifying the rewriting of widely accepted and ancient social norms by observing birds and apes seems pretty destructive to me. I don't care if people are gay. I do care when they force changes in social institutions. Be gay and happy, I don't care. But don't tell me I have to accept it as normal and tell my kids that Joe and Jack are the same as Joe and Mary.
It is very common practice in the clinical and laboratory setting to observe what occurs with animals and use that to extrapolate what might be occurring with the human species. For instance, while we do not share exact biological traits with chimpanzees, we are close enough genetically that testing is done on the primates before human testing is done. Now, you might be able to say that if one, two, or maybe even three or four of another animal species exhibited homosexual tendencies then that might not be worth considering. However, that is not the case. The number of species that exhibit this behavior is growing all the time and is so far in the thousands! At some point you have to say, okay this is something to consider. Perhaps it's not the end all of end all evidence that homosexuality is natural, but it is a large piece of evidence to throw into the argument.
Now, let me give you another even larger piece of evidence; I am gay and I did not choose to be gay. I am of sound mind and that is my statement. I never sat down, looked around at the world and one day took it upon myself to change my entire sexual preference and emotional ability for who I can fall in love with. I have however tried tirelessly to change to being straight. I did it for a long long time and it did not work. No matter what I tried nothing worked. I come from a family with two parents who are married, they are male and female, they are very religious, and our family was taught that homosexuality is wrong. So, obviously it is not my parents fault. Ever since I was an infant every example of love was between a man and woman. So, the nurture thing, I ain't buying that so much. And just to add this in, about the only "nurturing" I get from my parents now is a phone hung up on me when I try to call them. They don't speak to me anymore.
So, I would think that if you hear from countless homosexuals that they did not choose to be gay, then you look at the number of homosexuals that have tried to be straight with no success, and you look at the treatment that we have to put up with from your homosexual counterparts who try their hardest to make our lives painful and depressing, at some point you have to stop and think that maybe you're wrong.
Oh, and on the social norms, we're not trying to change anything except how the government treats its citizens. I am an American and I deserve the same legal treatment as every other American. My religion says that gay marriage is okay. If the government recognizes one religion over another, then it is breaking the law.
And if you want to talk about how changing social norms is wrong to you, then about the only place you're going to be safe is ina bubble tucked away from everyone. Sorry, but things change. Social norms are always changing. If you don't like it then go out and tell someone, but don't use the government to try and force behavior (or religious) changes on people. Especially when I'm just practicing my religion.
The gay mafia IS trying to change social norms by branding people like me who wholeheartedly disagree with gay marriage as hateful and ignorant. I am neither hateful nor ignorant. World culture naturally developed the institution of marriage as part of its evolution. Naturally, a caveman chooses a cave woman or two and protects them and the cave women have his babies, strengthening the species. Gay marriage is not this, period. Call it what you want; do what you want; but, don't hijack an institution because you want to feel equal to something you are not equal to. And just to preface the flames for that statement, equal doesn't mean worse or better so stop.
And as far as the consequences of hijacking the institution of marriage is concerned, as we all know it is coming eventually with the vicious cycle of moral degradation our country is now experiencing, there are a lot of underlying effects that will matter. The Federal government which has historically traded economic and material benefits to traditional couples for having babies will have to start giving these benefits to people that aren't actually producing anything long-term for the government.
Talk about branding!?!?!? Go back and read what you just wrote. The "gay mafia"??? You even went so far as call me the moral degradation of the country! You want to know some other branding that has been placed upon us? I don't think I really need to list them because I'm quite certain it wouldn't take you too long to come up with a list yourself.
First off, you don't know me or anything about my morality. I am a Christian. I believe that Christ died for our sins and I find that single act the most beautiful thing that anyone has done for man ever! Now, my Christian church that I attend regularly performs gay marriages. I have been to other denominational weddings for same sex couples as well, including Jewish weddings. Yes, there are Jewish same sex marriages too. Surprised?
My morality is that I should find a person and get into a relationship with them and make a commitment of our love. I am not the type to go sleeping around or playing the field (as I see quite a few of my straight friends do with no regard). My church teaches me this as well and celebrates our loving relationships as real and worth recognizing in the eyes of the Lord through the act of marriage.
Now, I have no problem with you if your church teaches you different. Have at it. I am not going to brand you as anything until you come and start trying to use the government to take away my equal rights under the law. At that point you've crossed the line. And when the government recognizes one type of religious ceremony over another, it too has crossed the line.
You want a solution to this, it's simple. Get the government out of the marriage recognition business. This starts by also getting rid of these automatic marriage recognitions and breaks. If you aren't going to get rid of those, then your damned right I'm going to make a fuss about things. Because it's un-Constitutional. The government recognizing one religion over another absolutely is the government stepping over its bounds.
As far as branding goes, maybe you should stop the branding. I never joined a mafia, nor is it my intention to morally degradate this country. I am simply a person trying to live my life as an American. I respect what this country is and what it promises its people. I pay taxes too, and I live here as well. I contribute to the well being of this nation and I do not in any way deserve to be pushed down to second class by some "moral majority".
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Honestly I see no issue with blaming religion as it is in all honesty the cause of much hardship and through history was used to control people and is still used as a weapon today. Religion is and was and perhaps always will be used as a weapon to get others to believe in the same things as you. But I still believe it is some ones right to believe in a god. Of course since im a non-believer I will most likely be flamed myself for thinking different.
*edit add* I dont mean blaming it completely for everything in the current discussion since in the end it is our choice*
I would also like to point out how some people talk about two men being together as a sin. Well from my understanding a sin is a sin simply put no sin is more evil than another. Thus those who eat too much are sinners because Gluttony is a sin to my recollection. Basically 99% of us Americans are sinners. How do you justify using the bibel saying its a sin when so is eating that extra muffin for desert? :P
For some reason, I just don't feel threatened....
Because all man sin when the disobeyed and ate the apple from the serpent, Jesus is supposed to absorb the sins off all man when he was sacrificed. Accepting Jesus is supposed to grant you access to Heaven. Am I incorrect?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I like that video it was funny.
You can tell the quality of a person by how they treat people they don't need.
all the views are very interesting, but gay marriage will be inevitably allowed but it will take ALONG VERY LONG time to get allowed, so why everyone is having a hatred spree i have yet to wonder, but everyone is allowed to there own opinions i suppose
Should not be allowed. I meen you cant breed with shit on your dick.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
gays can flood into the Netherlands where gays have right to marry
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Thanks for sharing your scary interpretation of God's love for us. Yikes! I wonder if you know what Leviticus is all about, or that Jesus came to visit us since that was written? No wonder so many people run when they hear what you have to say. I would too.
But hey, if you want to go read scary stuff like that and call it love for mankind, then that's all you. My church doesn't teach that however. I do hear there is a nice guy named Fred Phelps who concurs with your views and interpretations on those texts however. You guys should hang out sometime.
Now, back to the issue. Like I said, my church does not teach that and does perform gay marriages. It is my religious practice. You're free to your spooky one, and I would like the same respect towards me when it comes to our version. We won't go and get the government to force you to "believe" one way and it would be nice to have the favor returned.
In the meantime, that's just what you're doing if you pass legislation for the government not to recognize my religious practice. You're using the government to pick one religion over another. That is not what the Constitution says we are supposed to do in our free nation. Therefore, I demand my equal rights. If your religious marriage is recognized, then so should my religious marriage be recognized as well and all those nice breaks and privileges that you folks automatically get from that recognition.
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ok civil rights is fine and dandy, but im sure if you were to get married in texas in the area where i am at , you would get shot in less than half a second. but thats not the point, from my stand point the goverment is trying to maintain civil order not pick one religion over another, this has NOTHING to do with religion what soever on my stand point, i may be wrong, but from what i see its trying to maintain civil order among american citizens, im sure you wouldnt enjoy seeing a riot outside your window with a sign saying "NO GAY MARRIAGES", that would soon turn into physical violence to show how serious they are, seeing how the amercian life has shown it.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Thanks for sharing your scary interpretation of God's love for us. Yikes! I wonder if you know what Leviticus is all about, or that Jesus came to visit us since that was written? No wonder so many people run when they hear what you have to say. I would too.
But hey, if you want to go read scary stuff like that and call it love for mankind, then that's all you. My church doesn't teach that however. I do hear there is a nice guy named Fred Phelps who concurs with your views and interpretations on those texts however. You guys should hang out sometime.
Now, back to the issue. Like I said, my church does not teach that and does perform gay marriages. It is my religious practice. You're free to your spooky one, and I would like the same respect towards me when it comes to our version. We won't go and get the government to force you to "believe" one way and it would be nice to have the favor returned.
In the meantime, that's just what you're doing if you pass legislation for the government not to recognize my religious practice. You're using the government to pick one religion over another. That is not what the Constitution says we are supposed to do in our free nation. Therefore, I demand my equal rights. If your religious marriage is recognized, then so should my religious marriage be recognized as well and all those nice breaks and privileges that you folks automatically get from that recognition.
What about those that leave the gay life style,what about Sodom and Gomorrah,it wasn't destroyed because they where obeying gods law.
Upallnight i read all your thoughts on this matter and I'm well aware that we disagree on this subject,but Jesus came back to enforce gods law not change it.
When they came to stone the women to death for a simple act of adultery and Jesus intervened and said to her go and sin no more,the implication was she was to stop what she was doing..he didn't give her permission to continue with the adultery.And he didn't comdemn her either,inforceing his love and protection for her.Just if he was to meet you now and say to you go and sin no more.
We all have our cross to bare.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Does this mean that when jesus comes back he's going to be a heroin taking, weed smoking, cocaine snorting junkie? wow
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Gays should not be allowed to marry as there will be no value remaining for customs, traditions & family life...
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: The bible doesn't use the word abomination vary much but this one of the times it does,which is trying to emphasize the severity of it.:Leviticus 20:13
If God creates a women for man and you refuse that woman then its like slap in the face.Thus the word abomination was added.
The only sin that was not forgiven in the bible was the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Many believe that man or a gay has given in to his or her Passions or lust,if you are born with a passion for the same sex then this is your cross to bare,whether you chose to serve your-self or your god is up to you.To deny your-self and your passions is the greatness service to God.When Eve took the apple it was a selfish act.
Thanks for sharing your scary interpretation of God's love for us. Yikes! I wonder if you know what Leviticus is all about, or that Jesus came to visit us since that was written? No wonder so many people run when they hear what you have to say. I would too.
But hey, if you want to go read scary stuff like that and call it love for mankind, then that's all you. My church doesn't teach that however. I do hear there is a nice guy named Fred Phelps who concurs with your views and interpretations on those texts however. You guys should hang out sometime.
Now, back to the issue. Like I said, my church does not teach that and does perform gay marriages. It is my religious practice. You're free to your spooky one, and I would like the same respect towards me when it comes to our version. We won't go and get the government to force you to "believe" one way and it would be nice to have the favor returned.
In the meantime, that's just what you're doing if you pass legislation for the government not to recognize my religious practice. You're using the government to pick one religion over another. That is not what the Constitution says we are supposed to do in our free nation. Therefore, I demand my equal rights. If your religious marriage is recognized, then so should my religious marriage be recognized as well and all those nice breaks and privileges that you folks automatically get from that recognition.
What about those that leave the gay life style,what about Sodom and Gomorrah,it wasn't destroyed because they where obeying gods law.
Upallnight i read all your thoughts on this matter and I'm well aware that we disagree on this subject,but Jesus came back to enforce gods law not change it.
When they came to stone the women to death for a simple act of adultery and Jesus intervened and said to her go and sin no more,the implication was she was to stop what she was doing..he didn't give her permission to continue with the adultery.And he didn't comdemn her either,inforceing his love and protection for her.Just if he was to meet you now and say to you go and sin no more.
We all have our cross to bare.
Again, you keep bringing up your religious problems with this. All the while you are not recognizing that this is not a religious issue. This is an issue between you and the Constitution and Bill of Rights of this country. The government is not supposed to show favor to one religion over another. It's all there if you want to read it.
If you want to have a religious debate then go have it with someone you might persuade. But there are a lot of us who have already chosen our religion and church and mine do not condemn gay marriage. And if the government decides to recognize one religious practice over another, then it is going agains the founding documents of this country. You have now stepped across the line of "equal rights for all" into the realm of "rights if you're in the majority". That is not America.
I'm not going to get into a religious debate here with you. I've found my way to Christ and that's all you need to know about me. I've got my church and my salvation. And it does not include a scary rendition or interpretation of God. Try using the scare tactics on someone who might be more susceptible to them.
Oh, and I'm not usually one to correct people on their spelling being about as dyslexic as they come, but it's not bare it is bear. If you "bare" a cross then you are unwrapping it. I think you were trying to imply that I am instead supposed to have that cross as a burden. And while I'm at it, might I suggest that you too have your cross to bear as well, perhaps one of non-judgment on others and their lives. Or perhaps your cross is to let others find their salvation in their own way instead of you trying to force your beliefs on others. And when you start using the government to manipulate peoples behavior, you are forcing your beliefs on them.
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That's a sweet argument for you, I'm sure.
In the meantime you're still using the government to recognize one religion over the other. Can we stick to the issue here, please?
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All this tells me is that Texas is still extremely bigoted and stuck in the dark ages. Didn't you use to do the same to black people? Actuaaly if you look at the number of "lynchings" in the USA today i think Texas is still right up near the top of the list. Maybe beaten by Alabama but hey. In Alabama can't you marry a horse?
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Well neither can you so whats your point or are you just increasing your post count like the guy who bumped this tired old topic.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Now if a Christian or Muslim comes to your house and shoots you dead on in the face, it'd be nothing to worry about, you deserved it. Yea, you f*cking prick, you heard right.
We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.
Crackin on a different state, humurous to you im sure but back to the point, you are not understanding that the government is trying to hold civil order, take that into thought for a second before making your fool hearty jokes mate, im sure in new jersey or another state there will be some moron who hates gays like crazy and will pop a cap in there head, but hey thats me mate, im only looking beyond the "hey its because there favoring one religion over another" sights
I don't think we're supposed to run inside of our houses in fear when someone challenges liberty and freedom. I spent some time in a place where there really were some people trying to "pop a cap" in my head, as you put it. I would go fight anywhere I was sent again. I believe in what this country stands for and I believe in the freedom and equal rights of its people.
My suspicion is that most of the gay people feel that way too. I know there is a this stereotype of them being weak, but in all actuality, the gay people I've met have been some pretty headstrong folks. They know what it's like to be called names and scorned and told they are not worth having the rights of this country. And I'm guessing they're about ready to show they're tired of it. Despite the threats.
As far as the government protecting people goes, screw that. The only thing they can do is show up after something occurs. I'm quite happy if they left me alone and let me take care of myself. I don't really need its kind of "protection".
I'm just curious about something though. Why would you bring up New Jersey? Are they supposed to be some fag jumping bad asses or something? Pffffttt... Picking on a minority is pretty weak if you ask me. I think they're going to be pretty surprised when they find out that they're not up against a group that intends to back down. And the gays have got plenty of straight supporters (like myself) who'll be right there to defend them if needed as well. I don't like people trying to shut people up or take away their rights. It makes me pretty damned angry.
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