Pretty poor argument. And, as mentioned, pretty emotional. My disbelief started with the understanding that there are thousands of other gods, 99.9999% of which are considered mythology by any one, modern religion. It was from there that I investigated and found just how man-made all of these religions are, and the emotions and motivations that went into their creation. Put all of that with science and you start to find that no written scenario for god(s) fits the evidence. All of the mythological stories were written by people trying to make sense of the unknown -- or to prop up their beliefs with made up fictions that give their religion an edge over competing religions. That is why their primitive minds created such timely fictions to explain these unknowns. Most of these fictions have been stripped away by knowledge and logic. Yet, today people scramble to protect these vanishing fictions that make no sense to the modern mind, but are at the core of their 'faith'. The other realization is this: If a person were born 9,000 years earlier in Asia, would they believe the same thing they do today? Would they fight just as hard for it? No, and yes. Attempting to create answers for the unknown is just human nature. Given time, you'll develop a better argument that is not framed by Christianity. - LC
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
I'll never understand the atheistic notion that a person should not/cannot believe in G(g)od(s) because there is no proof...To me, process of elimination always leads me back to the existence of a creator...you can only go so far back in time before you get to the point where a creator of some sort becomes a necessity...Our reality must also consist of an eternity out of NECESSITY, therefore I believe in a creator God. I do not buy that all matter simply appeared out of nothingness, I never will, and I think that such a thought is complete foolishness. You need not be Christian to understand the necessity for a creator.
Saying the universe has a designer only leads to the next question: Who made the designer
How many dozens of times must you ask that question?
The designer is, out of necessity, not within the confines of our reality and exists outside of time (eternity)....So the real question is...without such a belief in the eternal, what came before the big bang? Before that? Before that? Even if you tell yourself that you don't need an answer right now because you are confident that science will at least edge closer to an answer with time, it stil cannot account for the necessity of an eternal reality.
Thats is a very twist of logic. You're saying "It's illogical that the universe created itself or existed for eternity, so there must have been some magical being that existed outside of time to create it". That doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. If that magical creator can be of eternal existance, by that logic, so can the entire universe.
Okay, so to start this off this is NOT a rant on how religious people are stupid/ignorant. This IS a logical reason i DO NOT beleive in some all powerful being living in the clouds. When I was young and did beleive in a so called "god" when something bad happened like September 11th 2001 I asked my mother why these types of things happened, and she would always reply with "It's all in God's plan." and i would just say okay. But then some days at the church i was forced to go to if one of the members faced some kind of serious illness the pastor would always say that in the Bible, Jesus once said something like "Ask and you will Receive" which meant if you pray for it you will be granted it. So now i ask myself if god has a plan for every event and individual on this earth, then how is prayer going to change someone dying? These to plans cancel each other out. And it also says in the Bible that god has given humanity freewill, then again isnt having a plan for everything taking away the freewill? Just one of the reasons i dont beleive in god
Um ok, I don't mean to be rude. But why should anyone care why you do or do not believe in God? Why is it all you atheists and even the non atheists seem to think anyone should give a rats ass what you believe? What is the point in all these religious threads? It's like someone coming here and saying, "Hey look at me, I'm gay!" Who cares? To each their own. Why do ya'll feel compelled to tell others these things? It doesn't make any sense to me. Don't believe in God if you so choose, it's not going to change anyones oppinions if they DO believe in God. Using the hip internet lingo. These religious threads are total fail.
This website is a safe haven for trolls and haters. I'm done with this pathetic site.
Pretty poor argument. And, as mentioned, pretty emotional. My disbelief started with the understanding that there are thousands of other gods, 99.9999% of which are considered mythology by any one, modern religion. It was from there that I investigated and found just how man-made all of these religions are, and the emotions and motivations that went into their creation. Put all of that with science and you start to find that no written scenario for god(s) fits the evidence. All of the mythological stories were written by people trying to make sense of the unknown -- or to prop up their beliefs with made up fictions that give their religion an edge over competing religions. That is why their primitive minds created such timely fictions to explain these unknowns. Most of these fictions have been stripped away by knowledge and logic. Yet, today people scramble to protect these vanishing fictions that make no sense to the modern mind, but are at the core of their 'faith'. The other realization is this: If a person were born 9,000 years earlier in Asia, would they believe the same thing they do today? Would they fight just as hard for it? No, and yes. Attempting to create answers for the unknown is just human nature. Given time, you'll develop a better argument that is not framed by Christianity. - LC
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
Ok well I do not know is this is hard proof to you but something can't come from nothing. You make a sealed vacume chamber and a 100 billion years from now there won't be a mini universe inside of it. Why? Because there was nothing in there to begin with. I apply that to our universe. Some all powerful being had to have created matter. The basic elemnts that form our universe could not just have simply come into being. To me thats a fact bcause science of today says that energy/matter can not be destroyed or created as a fact, and if thats a fact then well something had to create the matter that was above the laws of physics.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Pretty poor argument. And, as mentioned, pretty emotional. My disbelief started with the understanding that there are thousands of other gods, 99.9999% of which are considered mythology by any one, modern religion. It was from there that I investigated and found just how man-made all of these religions are, and the emotions and motivations that went into their creation. Put all of that with science and you start to find that no written scenario for god(s) fits the evidence. All of the mythological stories were written by people trying to make sense of the unknown -- or to prop up their beliefs with made up fictions that give their religion an edge over competing religions. That is why their primitive minds created such timely fictions to explain these unknowns. Most of these fictions have been stripped away by knowledge and logic. Yet, today people scramble to protect these vanishing fictions that make no sense to the modern mind, but are at the core of their 'faith'. The other realization is this: If a person were born 9,000 years earlier in Asia, would they believe the same thing they do today? Would they fight just as hard for it? No, and yes. Attempting to create answers for the unknown is just human nature. Given time, you'll develop a better argument that is not framed by Christianity. - LC
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
I'll never understand the atheistic notion that a person should not/cannot believe in G(g)od(s) because there is no proof...To me, process of elimination always leads me back to the existence of a creator...you can only go so far back in time before you get to the point where a creator of some sort becomes a necessity...Our reality must also consist of an eternity out of NECESSITY, therefore I believe in a creator God. I do not buy that all matter simply appeared out of nothingness, I never will, and I think that such a thought is complete foolishness. You need not be Christian to understand the necessity for a creator.
I make no such assumption because my answer is: I don't know.
As to applying the 'process of elimination', it seems to fail under a lack of available information. I'm not even sure how it could be applied.
I'm willing to wait for an answer, and in the meantime I am okay with "I don't know". If I receive no answer in my lifetime, that is okay with me, but it does seem to bother some people.
It just seems odd to assume a 'designer' or god(s). I have no reason to leap in that direction when it is so obvious that the answer is no where in sight. If you see this as proof of the existence of god(s), then I think that speaks more to your mindset than it does to evidence. This isn't an attack, it is just what I see in your argument.
Of course, it is quite natural to anthropomorphize when we lack answers. Humans have done this for thousands of years. Wind needs an origin, so why not a god blowing it out his mouth? -- almost seems common sense. Lightning thrown from an angry god. The universe has a builder -- a common theme in numerous religions (what more common a question than the origin of the universe?). Etc. etc.
The problem is, it all just wobbles a bit too much under close scrutiny.
Pretty poor argument. And, as mentioned, pretty emotional. My disbelief started with the understanding that there are thousands of other gods, 99.9999% of which are considered mythology by any one, modern religion. It was from there that I investigated and found just how man-made all of these religions are, and the emotions and motivations that went into their creation. Put all of that with science and you start to find that no written scenario for god(s) fits the evidence. All of the mythological stories were written by people trying to make sense of the unknown -- or to prop up their beliefs with made up fictions that give their religion an edge over competing religions. That is why their primitive minds created such timely fictions to explain these unknowns. Most of these fictions have been stripped away by knowledge and logic. Yet, today people scramble to protect these vanishing fictions that make no sense to the modern mind, but are at the core of their 'faith'. The other realization is this: If a person were born 9,000 years earlier in Asia, would they believe the same thing they do today? Would they fight just as hard for it? No, and yes. Attempting to create answers for the unknown is just human nature. Given time, you'll develop a better argument that is not framed by Christianity. - LC
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
Ok well I do not know is this is hard proof to you but something can't come from nothing. You make a sealed vacume chamber and a 100 billion years from now there won't be a mini universe inside of it. Why? Because there was nothing in there to begin with. I apply that to our universe. Some all powerful being had to have created matter. The basic elemnts that form our universe could not just have simply come into being. To me thats a fact bcause science of today says that energy/matter can not be destroyed or created as a fact, and if thats a fact then well something had to create the matter that was above the laws of physics.
Thats taking double standards. You're trying to argue with illogical standpoints. If you're going to argue that the universe can't come from nothing, you must also apply that rule to your belief in a creator, or else your argement has nothing to stand on.
If you believe a creator can come from nothing, there is no reason not to believe the universe itself can come from nothing, or existed for eternity. I just used your logic, except I cut out the middleman because that is no longer necessary.
The thing is, nobody knows for sure how it all started, or if it ever started at all. However I personally think it's absurd to already jump to the conclussion of a creator.
Pretty poor argument. And, as mentioned, pretty emotional. My disbelief started with the understanding that there are thousands of other gods, 99.9999% of which are considered mythology by any one, modern religion. It was from there that I investigated and found just how man-made all of these religions are, and the emotions and motivations that went into their creation. Put all of that with science and you start to find that no written scenario for god(s) fits the evidence. All of the mythological stories were written by people trying to make sense of the unknown -- or to prop up their beliefs with made up fictions that give their religion an edge over competing religions. That is why their primitive minds created such timely fictions to explain these unknowns. Most of these fictions have been stripped away by knowledge and logic. Yet, today people scramble to protect these vanishing fictions that make no sense to the modern mind, but are at the core of their 'faith'. The other realization is this: If a person were born 9,000 years earlier in Asia, would they believe the same thing they do today? Would they fight just as hard for it? No, and yes. Attempting to create answers for the unknown is just human nature. Given time, you'll develop a better argument that is not framed by Christianity. - LC
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
Ok well I do not know is this is hard proof to you but something can't come from nothing. You make a sealed vacume chamber and a 100 billion years from now there won't be a mini universe inside of it. Why? Because there was nothing in there to begin with. I apply that to our universe. Some all powerful being had to have created matter. The basic elemnts that form our universe could not just have simply come into being. To me thats a fact bcause science of today says that energy/matter can not be destroyed or created as a fact, and if thats a fact then well something had to create the matter that was above the laws of physics.
I don't see how your metaphor fits the situation. The universe, and all of the unknown forces behind it, cannot be summed up by a sealed vacuum chamber. Every year we make some new scientific discovery that tells us more about the universe and its history. And yet, scientists realize there is so much more to discover.
I believe that throwing our hands up and saying, "Goddidit" is giving up in the face of the most complex question we face.
I don't know the answer. We may never know the answer. But why, in our limited scope of understanding, feel that we can give an answer at all? Perhaps some day our understanding will reach that point, but I have my doubts.
It seems that the 'designer/creator' answer is no better than, and carries no more proof of, the answer from mythology of gods fashioning planets, or bleeding them out, or crying them out, or swinging a weapon and cutting them into existence.
So why is a seperate eternal reality required to explain the origin of the universe?
To assume that our reality is bound by time, ie a beggining and end and thus would require a force in an eternal reality to act upon this reality to create it seems like a rather large assumption. For one I don't believe in time, it is a concept that humans made to explain change and make sense of the world but not an actual force, but anyway what is to say that the universe had a beggining or an end, could it not be an "eternal" reality itself and endless loop of cycles and change.
Because once you by that something could exist without being created at some point why assume that a being would have to be the infinite originator and not the universe itself the originator or a seperate plane of matter or maybe all reality is a computer simulation, we don't know where the universe came from but a god is not required to explain it.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Here is a few things TO believe in God for. You are living on a world among infinite worlds that is precisely positioned in this solar system to support life. This world just so happens to have protective measures in place like "Ozone" to block out harmful rays in order for this life to live. We also have a Breatheable atmosphere that is the building block for life. On top of that there are millions possibly billions of organisms that make a complete sophisticated balanced ecosystem, without creatures like bees or coral reefs it would throw the Earth into Chaos. Keep in Mind "Man" Dominates this planet, we keep it and cultivate the land which just so happens to produce fruit and vegetables to sustain a population of 6 billion people on this Earth, Not to mention there are minerals,water,gas,oil etc... for Industry, to create and build things. Above all we have a unique intelligence, a brain that is the most sophisticated computer in the world which gives us the ability to tend and keep it, and guess what God made it all, without him none of this would be possible. Fact is, Man made the decision to rebel against God and because of that sin enter this world, we brought a curse upon us of our own doing, we let a destroyer come into this world and manipulate it and God has provided a way out through Jesus Christ. God is not the author of Sin, Satan is, and it is he that steals,kills and destroys. Jesus came so that you may have life and have it more abundantly. Man was enslaved by Sin and Satan, Jesus came to free us from sin and bring us out of the darkness and into the truth of Freedom. It is for Freedom that he set us free. God Creates life and Satan destroys it.
Here is a few things TO believe in God for. You are living on a world among infinite worlds that is precisely positioned in this solar system to support life. This world just so happens to have protective measures in place like "Ozone" to block out harmful rays in order for this life to live. We also have a Breatheable atmosphere that is the building block for life. On top of that there are millions possibly billions of organisms that make a complete sophisticated balanced ecosystem, without creatures like bees or coral reefs it would throw the Earth into Chaos. Keep in Mind "Man" Dominates this planet, we keep it and cultivate the land which just so happens to produce fruit and vegetables to sustain a population of 6 billion people on this Earth, Not to mention there are minerals,water,gas,oil etc... for Industry, to create and build things. Above all we have a unique intelligence, a brain that is the most sophisticated computer in the world which gives us the ability to tend and keep it, and guess what God made it all, without him none of this would be possible. Fact is, Man made the decision to rebel against God and because of that sin enter this world, we brought a curse upon us of our own doing, we let a destroyer come into this world and manipulate it and God has provided a way out through Jesus Christ. God is not the author of Sin, Satan is, and it is he that steals,kills and destroys. Jesus came so that you may have life and have it more abundantly. Man was enslaved by Sin and Satan, Jesus came to free us from sin and bring us out of the darkness and into the truth of Freedom. It is for Freedom that he set us free. God Creates life and Satan destroys it.
There is already a scientific explanation for many of the things you argue, and you're completely ignoring all the parts of the universe where life can not exist.
You use the word "fact" to describe your belief. It's not a fact, it's your belief, there is a difference
I don't use emotional arguements for why I don't believe, because things like bad and evil are completely subjective and it is only an arguement against a single definition of god. I don't believe because the people claiming that one exists cannot offer evidence that one does other than personal conviction, special reasoning and god of the gaps arguements, but I require more empirical evidence to believe something exists and the claim of something existing is presummed false unless evidence suggests otherwise. Thing is by definition of most gods you can never have empirical evidence for, just like any metaphysical claim, which makes me think their arguments are rather moot. Combine that with the functions gods serve for humans and I think that it seems more probable that gods are imaginary and the concept used by humans to answers unkown questions and bring them confort and meaning.
The problem with that argument is you cant prove any more than I can that there isent a god.
You are takeing it on Faith that the Scientests are telling you the truth and that we were a great cosmic "Opps"
Your claim is moot. Go ahead, try to prove that something does not exist. It is impossible. One can only prove (and even that is too profound a word) that something exists. If I were to say that there is an invisible space unicorn orbiting Betelgeuse, could you prove me wrong? Because there is no empirical data suggesting it's existence, we are to believe that there is no invisible space unicorn orbiting Betelgeuse.
Science, by the way, does not, and cannot answer questions of a supernatural nature because they cannot be tested empirically. It is also not in the nature of science to lie (to mislead, maybe, but not lie), it is in the nature of men; because of this we have invented such things as Scientific journals. To verify an experiment's legitimacy, many scientists read, re-read, and re-test the experiment. Science does not just appear out of the air..
(I just read the other post of yours, ekibiogami, but I've already written mine, so I'm not gonna erase it.)
Well I'd say the events in the Bible people choose to pick out as soley horrible focus on one side of the equation.
People forget about the message of love demonstrated in the events too. People are led to the city of Armageddon where tears are wiped away and peace reigns. Noah and family are saved from a great flood and the earth is populated again.
(Other cultures mention a great flood, particularly Babylonian)
What is forgotten in those scenarios are that people were wicked enough to ruin themselves. Free will. Free choice.
People should at least try to live towards a betterment of one another.
Look Footprints has God carrying us even through the hard times. Though we may not understand from being imperfect mortals. Even though we may not understand the "no's" or tough love at times. Even if we only see one set of footprints in the sand.
Lastly I'd say some try to place themselves above God or outright replace Him. This cannot be done with an omnipotent/divine being by imperfect mortal beings on an earthly world.
I'll never understand the atheistic notion that a person should not/cannot believe in G(g)od(s) because there is no proof...To me, process of elimination always leads me back to the existence of a creator...you can only go so far back in time before you get to the point where a creator of some sort becomes a necessity...Our reality must also consist of an eternity out of NECESSITY, therefore I believe in a creator God. I do not buy that all matter simply appeared out of nothingness, I never will, and I think that such a thought is complete foolishness. You need not be Christian to understand the necessity for a creator.
There is much about the universe that will never be understood in our lifetimes, or even in the lifetimes of the generations after us. What I must ask you is, how can we know the universe was ever created? Could it not have always just been there? Something that has never been created needs no creator. Energy (matter included) cannot be created nor destroyed, only it's form changed. If we apply this concept to the universe, then it would never have been created, and would never be destroyed; only changed. We know the universe is expanding, and that it will continue expanding, slowly. What happens when it can no longer expand? Well, just as any wavelength, the universe will probably collapse upon itself, probably at a fairly rapid pace in the beginning, and then slow down again, until it reaches a point where it has collapsed in entirety. And what quite possibly will happen? A big bang? It will expand again, probably rapidly. Planets, stars, suns, and possibly livable earth's will appear over billions of billions of years... then the creatures, if any exist, will evolve slowly. The most fit of them will build fires, and wheels, and create gods to be worshiped and then talk about it on some internet gaming forum.
I will not say that people should not believe in God. People in general need the hope, and need the guidance, and need to know that their lives mean something. But would you look up at the stars? The earth is nothing but a speck in the scope of things. These minds we possess have made us arrogant, arrogant enough to believe we matter. Even if there is some greater power, what is the likelihood that it knows we exist?
Now, I must ask, why must our reality consist of an eternity? Before we are conceived we do not exist. When the sperm meets the egg to create a zygote, is that when we receive our so called "souls"? Or is it more likely that souls are a concept derived from our longing for a meaning? Why does it scare people that there is a probability of nothingness in death? I think it is because people fear the unknown. We are afraid of the dark, so we shut our eyes and pretend that there is no more darkness. People also need a reason to believe that the good they do in life has a purpose; they kill two birds with one stone by believing in an afterlife of riches and pleasures. No-one who truly believes in an afterlife needs to fear death; the unknown is no longer a factor.
I see religion as a means to sugarcoat life. I see it as being too afraid to revere the unknown.
We all have our views on life; views and beliefs collected through our experiences, collected from the teachings of our elders, composed of our so-called rational thought. It is not a welcoming thought that one’s views and beliefs, formulated throughout life, could potentially be proven wrong. I can understand people’s need to be indifferent to the concepts of science for their own mental sentiment and personal preservation.
Note: I do not mean offense to anyone by this, I'm sure some of what I say could easily be mistaken for hostility so I appologize. Also, the first paragraph does not concur with contemporary science, I know this, it is hypothetical.
Well I'd say the events in the Bible people choose to pick out as soley horrible focus on one side of the equation. People forget about the message of love demonstrated in the events too. People are led to the city of Armageddon where tears are wiped away and peace reigns. Noah and family are saved from a great flood and the earth is populated again. (Other cultures mention a great flood, particularly Babylonian) What is forgotten in those scenarios are that people were wicked enough to ruin themselves. Free will. Free choice. People should at least try to live towards a betterment of one another. Look Footprints has God carrying us even through the hard times. Though we may not understand from being imperfect mortals. Even though we may not understand the "no's" or tough love at times. Even if we only see one set of footprints in the sand. Lastly I'd say some try to place themselves above God or outright replace Him. This cannot be done with an omnipotent/divine being by imperfect mortal beings on an earthly world. Edit: grammar additional content
There is no evidence of a world-wide flood (Oh, and if you say seashells on mountain tops, I get to give you 50 lashes with a geology text book) outside of mythology and religion. This is most likely an exaggeration of a common fear among civilizations dependent on rivers for water and food. This source of stability would occassionally rise up and destroy crops and houses. It would not be a far stretch of the imagination to believe it could continue to rise and destroy the world. We're imaginative creatures, we humans, and we love our horror stories.
While I agree that people need to "live towards a betterment of one another", I disagree in the way we achieve this goal. If you follow most of the rules and laws of the Bible, I can respect that. Although, I do hope that you do not follow all of them, as several were handed down from a superstitious, hateful, male-dominated, paranoid, and xenophobic civilization of Middle Eastern sheep-herders. I hope you can see how ideas driven by these notions might not be useful today. Unfortunately, many people can't tell the difference when they see it.
You give good poetry about Christianity, but I believe that humans created religion, invented god(s), and change their religion as they see fit from generation to generation (what Nietzsche referred to as 'killing God', and what you refer to as not focusing on the horrible). Meaning: We made it to reinforce what was already there -- the norms of that time. Meaning: We can do away with it, and it will still exist (our morals, ideals, etc.) -- the norms and laws of our time.
If we can't be good people without the fear of god(s), then we hardly deserve to exist. Fear as a motivator is so passé.
Okay, so to start this off this is NOT a rant on how religious people are stupid/ignorant. This IS a logical reason i DO NOT beleive in some all powerful being living in the clouds. When I was young and did beleive in a so called "god" when something bad happened like September 11th 2001 I asked my mother why these types of things happened, and she would always reply with "It's all in God's plan." and i would just say okay. But then some days at the church i was forced to go to if one of the members faced some kind of serious illness the pastor would always say that in the Bible, Jesus once said something like "Ask and you will Receive" which meant if you pray for it you will be granted it. So now i ask myself if god has a plan for every event and individual on this earth, then how is prayer going to change someone dying? These to plans cancel each other out. And it also says in the Bible that god has given humanity freewill, then again isnt having a plan for everything taking away the freewill? Just one of the reasons i dont beleive in god
Whats sad is that people tihnk the only view of God is dogmatic. If God is so damn smart he can design life to have free will and pre destination, just think about it.
Most great people believed a non dogmatic "God" and went against the conventional religion of the day.
God =/ religion... Lol thats probably why we have so many atheists. The idea of a creator originates in logic not dogma
Seriously, what kind of God would a God be if he strings us up along as puppets the whole time.
True, that would defeat the purpose of Free Will.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Here is a few things TO believe in God for. You are living on a world among infinite worlds that is precisely positioned in this solar system to support life. This world just so happens to have protective measures in place like "Ozone" to block out harmful rays in order for this life to live. We also have a Breatheable atmosphere that is the building block for life. On top of that there are millions possibly billions of organisms that make a complete sophisticated balanced ecosystem, without creatures like bees or coral reefs it would throw the Earth into Chaos. Keep in Mind "Man" Dominates this planet, we keep it and cultivate the land which just so happens to produce fruit and vegetables to sustain a population of 6 billion people on this Earth, Not to mention there are minerals,water,gas,oil etc... for Industry, to create and build things. Above all we have a unique intelligence, a brain that is the most sophisticated computer in the world which gives us the ability to tend and keep it, and guess what God made it all, without him none of this would be possible. Fact is, Man made the decision to rebel against God and because of that sin enter this world, we brought a curse upon us of our own doing, we let a destroyer come into this world and manipulate it and God has provided a way out through Jesus Christ. God is not the author of Sin, Satan is, and it is he that steals,kills and destroys. Jesus came so that you may have life and have it more abundantly. Man was enslaved by Sin and Satan, Jesus came to free us from sin and bring us out of the darkness and into the truth of Freedom. It is for Freedom that he set us free. God Creates life and Satan destroys it.
There is already a scientific explanation for many of the things you argue, and you're completely ignoring all the parts of the universe where life can not exist.
You use the word "fact" to describe your belief. It's not a fact, it's your belief, there is a difference
God created Science. Everything has a method and a mathematical foundation. A Pure Impossibility to be thrown together through random Chaos. its like saying the empire state building was built by a hurricane.
Here is a few things TO believe in God for. You are living on a world among infinite worlds that is precisely positioned in this solar system to support life. This world just so happens to have protective measures in place like "Ozone" to block out harmful rays in order for this life to live. We also have a Breatheable atmosphere that is the building block for life. On top of that there are millions possibly billions of organisms that make a complete sophisticated balanced ecosystem, without creatures like bees or coral reefs it would throw the Earth into Chaos. Keep in Mind "Man" Dominates this planet, we keep it and cultivate the land which just so happens to produce fruit and vegetables to sustain a population of 6 billion people on this Earth, Not to mention there are minerals,water,gas,oil etc... for Industry, to create and build things. Above all we have a unique intelligence, a brain that is the most sophisticated computer in the world which gives us the ability to tend and keep it, and guess what God made it all, without him none of this would be possible. Fact is, Man made the decision to rebel against God and because of that sin enter this world, we brought a curse upon us of our own doing, we let a destroyer come into this world and manipulate it and God has provided a way out through Jesus Christ. God is not the author of Sin, Satan is, and it is he that steals,kills and destroys. Jesus came so that you may have life and have it more abundantly. Man was enslaved by Sin and Satan, Jesus came to free us from sin and bring us out of the darkness and into the truth of Freedom. It is for Freedom that he set us free. God Creates life and Satan destroys it.
There is already a scientific explanation for many of the things you argue, and you're completely ignoring all the parts of the universe where life can not exist.
You use the word "fact" to describe your belief. It's not a fact, it's your belief, there is a difference
God created Science. Everything has a method and a mathematical foundation. A Pure Impossibility to be thrown together through random Chaos. its like saying the empire state building was built by a hurricane.
You clearly never studied alternative theories besides your religious belief.
"I don't believe in god, because bad things happen."
Maybe god is evil and likes watching us destroy ourselves for his own amusement. Maybe Christianity is wrong and other religions are right. Maybe all religions are wrong, but there is still a god.
"There is no evidence to support a god."
There isn't any to suggest that there isn't one either; there is, however, evidence that some of the creation myths of certain religions are unlikely.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
"There is no evidence to support a god." There isn't any to suggest that there isn't one either; there is, however, evidence that some of the creation myths of certain religions are unlikely.
Don't assume that not believing in something means that you are claiming that something does not exist, just that you do not find any evidence to support the existance of one.
It is a common assumption that if someone calls themselves an atheist that they are claiming knowledge that there isn't a diety, that isn't true though. Though you certainly could be claiming that knowledge it does not imply that, an atheist is just someone that is not convinced a god exists, so many self proclaimed agnostics I would consider as atheists for their non belief and really agnosticism isn't a stance on belief in a god anyway just knowledge so you could be an agnostic theist or agnostioc atheist for example.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Don't assume that not believing in something means that you are claiming that something does not exist, just that you do not find any evidence to support the existance of one. It is a common assumption that if someone calls themselves an atheist that they are claiming knowledge that there isn't a diety, that isn't true though. Though you certainly could be claiming that knowledge it does not imply that, an atheist is just someone that is not convinced a god exists, so many self proclaimed agnostics I would consider as atheists for their non belief and really agnosticism isn't a stance on belief in a god anyway just knowledge so you could be an agnostic theist or agnostioc atheist for example.
You completely missed the point, but I'll give it to you.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
"Epicurus is generally credited with first expounding the problem of evil, and it is sometimes called "the Epicurean paradox" or "the riddle of Epicurus.""
Epicurus died 270, BCE. More or less 270 years before Jesus shows up. So, you're in good company OP.
Comments
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
I'll never understand the atheistic notion that a person should not/cannot believe in G(g)od(s) because there is no proof...To me, process of elimination always leads me back to the existence of a creator...you can only go so far back in time before you get to the point where a creator of some sort becomes a necessity...Our reality must also consist of an eternity out of NECESSITY, therefore I believe in a creator God. I do not buy that all matter simply appeared out of nothingness, I never will, and I think that such a thought is complete foolishness. You need not be Christian to understand the necessity for a creator.
Saying the universe has a designer only leads to the next question: Who made the designer
How many dozens of times must you ask that question?
The designer is, out of necessity, not within the confines of our reality and exists outside of time (eternity)....So the real question is...without such a belief in the eternal, what came before the big bang? Before that? Before that? Even if you tell yourself that you don't need an answer right now because you are confident that science will at least edge closer to an answer with time, it stil cannot account for the necessity of an eternal reality.
Thats is a very twist of logic. You're saying "It's illogical that the universe created itself or existed for eternity, so there must have been some magical being that existed outside of time to create it". That doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. If that magical creator can be of eternal existance, by that logic, so can the entire universe.
Um ok, I don't mean to be rude. But why should anyone care why you do or do not believe in God? Why is it all you atheists and even the non atheists seem to think anyone should give a rats ass what you believe? What is the point in all these religious threads? It's like someone coming here and saying, "Hey look at me, I'm gay!" Who cares? To each their own. Why do ya'll feel compelled to tell others these things? It doesn't make any sense to me. Don't believe in God if you so choose, it's not going to change anyones oppinions if they DO believe in God. Using the hip internet lingo. These religious threads are total fail.
This website is a safe haven for trolls and haters. I'm done with this pathetic site.
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
Ok well I do not know is this is hard proof to you but something can't come from nothing. You make a sealed vacume chamber and a 100 billion years from now there won't be a mini universe inside of it. Why? Because there was nothing in there to begin with. I apply that to our universe. Some all powerful being had to have created matter. The basic elemnts that form our universe could not just have simply come into being. To me thats a fact bcause science of today says that energy/matter can not be destroyed or created as a fact, and if thats a fact then well something had to create the matter that was above the laws of physics.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
I'll never understand the atheistic notion that a person should not/cannot believe in G(g)od(s) because there is no proof...To me, process of elimination always leads me back to the existence of a creator...you can only go so far back in time before you get to the point where a creator of some sort becomes a necessity...Our reality must also consist of an eternity out of NECESSITY, therefore I believe in a creator God. I do not buy that all matter simply appeared out of nothingness, I never will, and I think that such a thought is complete foolishness. You need not be Christian to understand the necessity for a creator.
I make no such assumption because my answer is: I don't know.
As to applying the 'process of elimination', it seems to fail under a lack of available information. I'm not even sure how it could be applied.
I'm willing to wait for an answer, and in the meantime I am okay with "I don't know". If I receive no answer in my lifetime, that is okay with me, but it does seem to bother some people.
It just seems odd to assume a 'designer' or god(s). I have no reason to leap in that direction when it is so obvious that the answer is no where in sight. If you see this as proof of the existence of god(s), then I think that speaks more to your mindset than it does to evidence. This isn't an attack, it is just what I see in your argument.
Of course, it is quite natural to anthropomorphize when we lack answers. Humans have done this for thousands of years. Wind needs an origin, so why not a god blowing it out his mouth? -- almost seems common sense. Lightning thrown from an angry god. The universe has a builder -- a common theme in numerous religions (what more common a question than the origin of the universe?). Etc. etc.
The problem is, it all just wobbles a bit too much under close scrutiny.
- LC
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
Ok well I do not know is this is hard proof to you but something can't come from nothing. You make a sealed vacume chamber and a 100 billion years from now there won't be a mini universe inside of it. Why? Because there was nothing in there to begin with. I apply that to our universe. Some all powerful being had to have created matter. The basic elemnts that form our universe could not just have simply come into being. To me thats a fact bcause science of today says that energy/matter can not be destroyed or created as a fact, and if thats a fact then well something had to create the matter that was above the laws of physics.
Thats taking double standards. You're trying to argue with illogical standpoints. If you're going to argue that the universe can't come from nothing, you must also apply that rule to your belief in a creator, or else your argement has nothing to stand on.
If you believe a creator can come from nothing, there is no reason not to believe the universe itself can come from nothing, or existed for eternity. I just used your logic, except I cut out the middleman because that is no longer necessary.
The thing is, nobody knows for sure how it all started, or if it ever started at all. However I personally think it's absurd to already jump to the conclussion of a creator.
and round and round we go. Truth is; no matter how you try you cannot disprove the existence of God to me and I cannot prove the existence of God to you; hence why we have more Anti God threads here on MMORPG vs Obama threads 4 to 1
I don't have to disprove the existence of god(s). I refuse to believe in anything that is fantastical (there is that word again) until enough proof is provided by those making the claim. I also refuse to believe in hollow moon theory and the idea of sun's being portals to other dimensions. I rank god(s) in the same category. Religion isn't a special category with a free pass on proof. It is the same as all fantastical claims, and should be treated as such. I realize some people have tried to rewrite the meaning of fantastical or supernatural, but that is a dodge.
That said, I was giving a summary of just a portion of why I am where I am today, not calling you out.
If you wish to have a debate on the existence of god(s), then please start with unassailable proof. That would end the argument right then and there. Beautiful sunsets or complex organisms do not prove the existence of god(s). I require substantial evidence, not, "We don't know how this happened, so it must have been god(s)."
In addition, proof isn't asking me a question, it is providing answers.
I'm skeptical by nature. I haven't always been, but I am now.
- LC
Ok well I do not know is this is hard proof to you but something can't come from nothing. You make a sealed vacume chamber and a 100 billion years from now there won't be a mini universe inside of it. Why? Because there was nothing in there to begin with. I apply that to our universe. Some all powerful being had to have created matter. The basic elemnts that form our universe could not just have simply come into being. To me thats a fact bcause science of today says that energy/matter can not be destroyed or created as a fact, and if thats a fact then well something had to create the matter that was above the laws of physics.
I don't see how your metaphor fits the situation. The universe, and all of the unknown forces behind it, cannot be summed up by a sealed vacuum chamber. Every year we make some new scientific discovery that tells us more about the universe and its history. And yet, scientists realize there is so much more to discover.
I believe that throwing our hands up and saying, "Goddidit" is giving up in the face of the most complex question we face.
I don't know the answer. We may never know the answer. But why, in our limited scope of understanding, feel that we can give an answer at all? Perhaps some day our understanding will reach that point, but I have my doubts.
It seems that the 'designer/creator' answer is no better than, and carries no more proof of, the answer from mythology of gods fashioning planets, or bleeding them out, or crying them out, or swinging a weapon and cutting them into existence.
- LC
So why is a seperate eternal reality required to explain the origin of the universe?
To assume that our reality is bound by time, ie a beggining and end and thus would require a force in an eternal reality to act upon this reality to create it seems like a rather large assumption. For one I don't believe in time, it is a concept that humans made to explain change and make sense of the world but not an actual force, but anyway what is to say that the universe had a beggining or an end, could it not be an "eternal" reality itself and endless loop of cycles and change.
Because once you by that something could exist without being created at some point why assume that a being would have to be the infinite originator and not the universe itself the originator or a seperate plane of matter or maybe all reality is a computer simulation, we don't know where the universe came from but a god is not required to explain it.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Here is a few things TO believe in God for. You are living on a world among infinite worlds that is precisely positioned in this solar system to support life. This world just so happens to have protective measures in place like "Ozone" to block out harmful rays in order for this life to live. We also have a Breatheable atmosphere that is the building block for life. On top of that there are millions possibly billions of organisms that make a complete sophisticated balanced ecosystem, without creatures like bees or coral reefs it would throw the Earth into Chaos. Keep in Mind "Man" Dominates this planet, we keep it and cultivate the land which just so happens to produce fruit and vegetables to sustain a population of 6 billion people on this Earth, Not to mention there are minerals,water,gas,oil etc... for Industry, to create and build things. Above all we have a unique intelligence, a brain that is the most sophisticated computer in the world which gives us the ability to tend and keep it, and guess what God made it all, without him none of this would be possible. Fact is, Man made the decision to rebel against God and because of that sin enter this world, we brought a curse upon us of our own doing, we let a destroyer come into this world and manipulate it and God has provided a way out through Jesus Christ. God is not the author of Sin, Satan is, and it is he that steals,kills and destroys. Jesus came so that you may have life and have it more abundantly. Man was enslaved by Sin and Satan, Jesus came to free us from sin and bring us out of the darkness and into the truth of Freedom. It is for Freedom that he set us free. God Creates life and Satan destroys it.
There is already a scientific explanation for many of the things you argue, and you're completely ignoring all the parts of the universe where life can not exist.
You use the word "fact" to describe your belief. It's not a fact, it's your belief, there is a difference
It's okay.
God believes in you.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The problem with that argument is you cant prove any more than I can that there isent a god.
You are takeing it on Faith that the Scientests are telling you the truth and that we were a great cosmic "Opps"
Your claim is moot. Go ahead, try to prove that something does not exist. It is impossible. One can only prove (and even that is too profound a word) that something exists. If I were to say that there is an invisible space unicorn orbiting Betelgeuse, could you prove me wrong? Because there is no empirical data suggesting it's existence, we are to believe that there is no invisible space unicorn orbiting Betelgeuse.
Science, by the way, does not, and cannot answer questions of a supernatural nature because they cannot be tested empirically. It is also not in the nature of science to lie (to mislead, maybe, but not lie), it is in the nature of men; because of this we have invented such things as Scientific journals. To verify an experiment's legitimacy, many scientists read, re-read, and re-test the experiment. Science does not just appear out of the air..
(I just read the other post of yours, ekibiogami, but I've already written mine, so I'm not gonna erase it.)
Cactusman, I agree.
Well I'd say the events in the Bible people choose to pick out as soley horrible focus on one side of the equation.
People forget about the message of love demonstrated in the events too. People are led to the city of Armageddon where tears are wiped away and peace reigns. Noah and family are saved from a great flood and the earth is populated again.
(Other cultures mention a great flood, particularly Babylonian)
What is forgotten in those scenarios are that people were wicked enough to ruin themselves. Free will. Free choice.
People should at least try to live towards a betterment of one another.
Look Footprints has God carrying us even through the hard times. Though we may not understand from being imperfect mortals. Even though we may not understand the "no's" or tough love at times. Even if we only see one set of footprints in the sand.
Lastly I'd say some try to place themselves above God or outright replace Him. This cannot be done with an omnipotent/divine being by imperfect mortal beings on an earthly world.
Edit: grammar additional content
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
There is much about the universe that will never be understood in our lifetimes, or even in the lifetimes of the generations after us. What I must ask you is, how can we know the universe was ever created? Could it not have always just been there? Something that has never been created needs no creator. Energy (matter included) cannot be created nor destroyed, only it's form changed. If we apply this concept to the universe, then it would never have been created, and would never be destroyed; only changed. We know the universe is expanding, and that it will continue expanding, slowly. What happens when it can no longer expand? Well, just as any wavelength, the universe will probably collapse upon itself, probably at a fairly rapid pace in the beginning, and then slow down again, until it reaches a point where it has collapsed in entirety. And what quite possibly will happen? A big bang? It will expand again, probably rapidly. Planets, stars, suns, and possibly livable earth's will appear over billions of billions of years... then the creatures, if any exist, will evolve slowly. The most fit of them will build fires, and wheels, and create gods to be worshiped and then talk about it on some internet gaming forum.
I will not say that people should not believe in God. People in general need the hope, and need the guidance, and need to know that their lives mean something. But would you look up at the stars? The earth is nothing but a speck in the scope of things. These minds we possess have made us arrogant, arrogant enough to believe we matter. Even if there is some greater power, what is the likelihood that it knows we exist?
Now, I must ask, why must our reality consist of an eternity? Before we are conceived we do not exist. When the sperm meets the egg to create a zygote, is that when we receive our so called "souls"? Or is it more likely that souls are a concept derived from our longing for a meaning? Why does it scare people that there is a probability of nothingness in death? I think it is because people fear the unknown. We are afraid of the dark, so we shut our eyes and pretend that there is no more darkness. People also need a reason to believe that the good they do in life has a purpose; they kill two birds with one stone by believing in an afterlife of riches and pleasures. No-one who truly believes in an afterlife needs to fear death; the unknown is no longer a factor.
I see religion as a means to sugarcoat life. I see it as being too afraid to revere the unknown.
We all have our views on life; views and beliefs collected through our experiences, collected from the teachings of our elders, composed of our so-called rational thought. It is not a welcoming thought that one’s views and beliefs, formulated throughout life, could potentially be proven wrong. I can understand people’s need to be indifferent to the concepts of science for their own mental sentiment and personal preservation.
Note: I do not mean offense to anyone by this, I'm sure some of what I say could easily be mistaken for hostility so I appologize. Also, the first paragraph does not concur with contemporary science, I know this, it is hypothetical.
There is no evidence of a world-wide flood (Oh, and if you say seashells on mountain tops, I get to give you 50 lashes with a geology text book) outside of mythology and religion. This is most likely an exaggeration of a common fear among civilizations dependent on rivers for water and food. This source of stability would occassionally rise up and destroy crops and houses. It would not be a far stretch of the imagination to believe it could continue to rise and destroy the world. We're imaginative creatures, we humans, and we love our horror stories.
While I agree that people need to "live towards a betterment of one another", I disagree in the way we achieve this goal. If you follow most of the rules and laws of the Bible, I can respect that. Although, I do hope that you do not follow all of them, as several were handed down from a superstitious, hateful, male-dominated, paranoid, and xenophobic civilization of Middle Eastern sheep-herders. I hope you can see how ideas driven by these notions might not be useful today. Unfortunately, many people can't tell the difference when they see it.
You give good poetry about Christianity, but I believe that humans created religion, invented god(s), and change their religion as they see fit from generation to generation (what Nietzsche referred to as 'killing God', and what you refer to as not focusing on the horrible). Meaning: We made it to reinforce what was already there -- the norms of that time. Meaning: We can do away with it, and it will still exist (our morals, ideals, etc.) -- the norms and laws of our time.
If we can't be good people without the fear of god(s), then we hardly deserve to exist. Fear as a motivator is so passé.
- LC
Whats sad is that people tihnk the only view of God is dogmatic. If God is so damn smart he can design life to have free will and pre destination, just think about it.
Most great people believed a non dogmatic "God" and went against the conventional religion of the day.
God =/ religion... Lol thats probably why we have so many atheists. The idea of a creator originates in logic not dogma
True, that would defeat the purpose of Free Will.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
There is already a scientific explanation for many of the things you argue, and you're completely ignoring all the parts of the universe where life can not exist.
You use the word "fact" to describe your belief. It's not a fact, it's your belief, there is a difference
God created Science. Everything has a method and a mathematical foundation. A Pure Impossibility to be thrown together through random Chaos. its like saying the empire state building was built by a hurricane.
There is already a scientific explanation for many of the things you argue, and you're completely ignoring all the parts of the universe where life can not exist.
You use the word "fact" to describe your belief. It's not a fact, it's your belief, there is a difference
God created Science. Everything has a method and a mathematical foundation. A Pure Impossibility to be thrown together through random Chaos. its like saying the empire state building was built by a hurricane.
You clearly never studied alternative theories besides your religious belief.
"I don't believe in god, because bad things happen."
Maybe god is evil and likes watching us destroy ourselves for his own amusement. Maybe Christianity is wrong and other religions are right. Maybe all religions are wrong, but there is still a god.
"There is no evidence to support a god."
There isn't any to suggest that there isn't one either; there is, however, evidence that some of the creation myths of certain religions are unlikely.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Don't assume that not believing in something means that you are claiming that something does not exist, just that you do not find any evidence to support the existance of one.
It is a common assumption that if someone calls themselves an atheist that they are claiming knowledge that there isn't a diety, that isn't true though. Though you certainly could be claiming that knowledge it does not imply that, an atheist is just someone that is not convinced a god exists, so many self proclaimed agnostics I would consider as atheists for their non belief and really agnosticism isn't a stance on belief in a god anyway just knowledge so you could be an agnostic theist or agnostioc atheist for example.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
You completely missed the point, but I'll give it to you.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
This is "The Problem of Evil". It's been around as a concept for a long, long time.
There's an entire wiki on it, in case the OP is interested.
Problem of Evil
"Epicurus is generally credited with first expounding the problem of evil, and it is sometimes called "the Epicurean paradox" or "the riddle of Epicurus.""
Epicurus died 270, BCE. More or less 270 years before Jesus shows up. So, you're in good company OP.