Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
WOW copying EQ yet again?err i mean Blizzard.
Wizardry
Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
I know Blizzard does not have two feet to stand on their own but is the Achievement system copying Everquest..yet again?My god ,they have no clue about designing their own content what so ever.
Is the WOW base this clue less as to Blizzard totally ripping off another game?Or do they not care that they are supporting a rip off developer?They say it is a total ripoff from LOTR but IMO it is all SOE design and template once again.
What gets me even more is that,websites,bloggers,authors are backing up Blizzard by stating the game is growing because it brings in NEW content.Ya it would be new if it was actually NEW,they steal everything in their game.You cannot even say they are taking the best parts from games everywhere,as they are pretty much COPYING EQ2 to a tee.
DnL was put out of business for apparently copying a world generator,i can't believe SOE does not sue Blizzard for stealing their entire game.
I LOL at all the people that are paying a developer to take years to re build another EQ2,that was already in place years ago.I guess in essence you can say Blizzard put out a half finished game product ,since they are still putting out EQ2 content years later.VERY sad that such a lame developer sits on top making money from some one else's hard work.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
I wrote a wall of text to combat your arguments. And then I thought better.
I LOL at you OP. You should figure out why...
WoW May be ripping off EQ {Even though they said they took the Idea from X-Box 360} Butthey do it right. the thing that makes WoW a hit IS takeing the best parts of games and Blending them together. EQ may have a following, but doesn't even come close to the Money WoW makes,Still makes, And will continue to make. Even though I don't play WoW, I have to give credit were credit is Due. Money Talks, were it comes from doesnt matter, They are makeing it. Congrats Blizzard. If you can make a hit by ripping off all the other games {Like EVERY MMO} my hat's off to you.
Let's Face it 99% of ALL MMO's Ripped off Dungeons & Dragons. EQ is NO different.
I rest my case,this is the kind of mentality,people have that praise Blizzard.You congratulate them for ripping off EQ. You mean EQ of course,because they have nothing from other games,99% eq all over again.Apparently you are of the minority because it seems every other MMO that rips off games gets ridiculed by the entire public[DnL is one case],the ONLY reason it doesn't here is because the majority are all playing WOW,you think they are going to call themselves idiots for supporting a RIP off developer?If it was another game ,they are VERY quick to jump however,extreme biased here IMO.
Take the example of SOE posting they were going to copy a business model[runescape i believe],then the forum was full of people bashing SOE ,stating ridiculous things like they were out right copying a game.Copying a business model and ripping off a game are two different things.The point is that they were VERY quick to jump in because it was SOE,yet it is fine for Blizzard?
You also point out the typical Blizzard fanbois response i see ALL the time "Money talks "lol,yep always the same ,it is never the game that stands on it it's own two feet ,it is always the money argument ..again lol.
You say do it right,my god have i heard that before lmao,they do it 99% EXACTLY the same,so what on earth are you talking about?They do NOT take parts from other games,they have re hashed EQ exactly,they do not do it different or right,they do it the SAME.
This is like saying it is ok to rip off music,because it is done right [free].Until Blizzard gets their act together and shows they are a developer and not a EQ rip off artist,i will continue,to give them NO credit.That is why the term DEVELOPER exists,you have to actually develope your game.The game WOW ,is a decent game of course ,after all it is Everquest with a different name,cheaper graphics.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
New generation of noobs that think they know anything about mmorpg's because they play world of warcraft ,
very sad indeed.
= By the way i dont think Wow is anything from Everquest that would be like insulting my roots of gaming i dont even compare wow to eq because there like about 8 years difference in the making .
To me wow is simply a watered down mmo game with easy mode raiding you can get into in a couple of weeks and am bored mode a few weeks after because of running the same raid over and over for gear .
EQ is so old that most people that play wow have no clue what eq is and am not talking about eq in 2008 , am talking eq from 1999 t'ill luclin . because that when the game was the most fun now the game is mostly changed with population declining every week.
Imo is not fair to compare a game that almost 10 years old with these new games .
Every game out there hase taken parts from another. You think EQ is original? Not even close. Once again, All MMO's take their entire Mechanics From Dungeons And Dragons. Zork, Bard's Tale, Dungeon Master, Might & magic, and so on. EQ is NOTHING new. All WoW did was made it for everyone instead of particular groups. you call it Dumded Down. OK lets go with that. Dumb or not. EQ can't come close to the money they make. SOE is so great, thats why they have such awesome titles like Matrixs, Star Wars Galaxies, Pirates of the Burning Sea, and lets not forget Vangaurd. Big money makers there. All SOE's games rolled into one don't make the Money WoW makes. I don't even Play it, but to bash a game that has brought more people to gaming than any other is just Dumb.
EQ had its time, I'm not knocking it. I loved it way back when, Was it original? Not realy. Just added MMO to the RPGs it ripped off.
Time to move on. I'm sure the fanboys will bash me. But thats fine. I don't Mind. Just remember every game is a polished version of a Different game or Games they ripped off.
As for noob. LOL, my first machine was a TRS 80 Model 1 complete with tape drive. or if you perfer, Pong was my first. I game so long becase I look ahead, not dwell on Old games like EQ.
Let the Fanboy flames begin
WoW is all about taking the ideas of others and doing them better. Always has been, always will be. Once and a while they stumble across something original, but WoW is all about taking what Blizz thinks is cool, what Blizz thinks works, and refining it and polishing it and making it their own.
The formula seems to be paying off quite nicely for them. Woe be unto them when some other publisher figures this out and does it to them.
I can tell you it won't be SOE that makes this breakthrough. SOE is totally focused on finding new ways to pick the pockets of their customers before the customers leave in disgust.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
There's a lot of back and forth with the MMORPG industry. WOW has "stolen" things from others and others have "stolen" things from WOW.
All I can say is that you don't remember the guy who wrote DOS, you remember the guy who bought it from him cheaply and turned it into a trillion dollar empire.
Having come from age old MMO roots myself....
I would remind you all to consider that time has a nice way of recreating memories for us in a way which lends itself to fondness. It may be easy to dismiss something as "watered down"...but only if you lack the foresight to realize how much actual innovation occured throughout it. The premise of taking a concept with clear and successful results, and improving it, is pretty much the literal foundation for all science and technology as we know it.
It also goes without saying that things have changed greatly over the years. "The world has moved on", to quote good ole Roland of Gilead. As we do things (anything really, sports, TV, games, sex...yadda) our expectations begin to remodel themselves to our experiences. Human nature, it would seem, demands constant forward progression. This means that once we have integrated something (playing it, beating it, doing it, mastering it, ect) into our brains, we tend to dissolve our interest in it. Because of this, things must adapt and evolve.
The MMO gamer of 10 years ago had different expectations. Actually, they had none. The genre was new, the worlds were new, the concept was new. It was easy to forgive the many flaws because we had not partaken of them yet. It was easy, for instance, to ignore how %&$&ing bad "LFG" for 3 hours used to be. It was easy to forget how lame needing a group to kill ONE orc was (when, in reality, we all just wanted to be that bad arsed warrior or mage nuking the piss out of everything in sight). Hell, we even forget that the Orc was new...and the ideal of killing him with a giant sword while playing in a world where thousands of other real people were playing was new too.
We know these things now, if only subconciously. The orc isn't new, we don't get the same sensation for seeing him in battle now. The LFG functions have had to see major changes to hasten finding a group to address player dropoff due to heavy downtime. The games have had to be made simpler, so that all players could at least SEE the content. A major factor in the terrible market for MMO's was the fact that over half their content was completely unviewable by most people. Why pay for something you can never experience?
WoW has taken ideals for other sources, naturally. Every last creative person on the planet does. Do you seriously think Tom Clancy "invented" espionage or small strike forces? Perhaps Stephen King invented Dark fantasy? Did Toyota invent a motorized vehichle? Do you really think musicians today aren't using ideals long thought up by other musicians? Hell, there are only 7 notes....and there have been millions upon millions of musicians. Those notes got reused...A LOT. Its completely ludicrous to expect ANYTHING to be 100% innovation and 100% new. Not one single thing truly ever is.
WoW HAS given us a solid reference point to proving that the genre must always be at a state of advancement. Note that the many games which have come out merely using a similar system (with virtually no advancement) and new skins have failed. Note also that EVE is doing very well. Never dismiss any success in any industry as "watered down" or a "joke". A success is indicative of some underlying change in the nature of the consumer. Being aware of these changes is critical, because without a solid consumer base these games can't draw investors...which means they can't pay for quality work. None of us should be saying a single ill word about WoW. We should be trying to advance what success it has shown us and begin moving the genre forward yet again.
Anything is preferable to the stagnate crap we are being fed right now.
This post fails. I have played WoW. I have played Everquest. I have played nearly every MMO and let me tell you its impossible to make a game without "stealing" ideas from other games.
How the hell is using an achievement system copying EQ2? As far as I know xbox was the first company to come up with that one. Now MANY games use achievements not just Everquest 2. I guarentee everything else used in EQ2 was once used in another game. Blizzard has to look at other MMOs and improve on them because thats how progress works. Every MMO that comes out is either going to be classified as a "wow clone" or an "EQ clone" only because they came out first. In order to be an MMO it has to be like wow or EQ because that is what an MMO is.
Now anyone with common sense would know that WoW cant be just copying EQ2 by looking at the numbers/quality of the game. There is plenty of original content in WoW but you arent seeing it.
WoW is a better game end of story.
Having come from age old MMO roots myself....
I would remind you all to consider that time has a nice way of recreating memories for us in a way which lends itself to fondness. It may be easy to dismiss something as "watered down"...but only if you lack the foresight to realize how much actual innovation occured throughout it. The premise of taking a concept with clear and successful results, and improving it, is pretty much the literal foundation for all science and technology as we know it.
It also goes without saying that things have changed greatly over the years. "The world has moved on", to quote good ole Roland of Gilead. As we do things (anything really, sports, TV, games, sex...yadda) our expectations begin to remodel themselves to our experiences. Human nature, it would seem, demands constant forward progression. This means that once we have integrated something (playing it, beating it, doing it, mastering it, ect) into our brains, we tend to dissolve our interest in it. Because of this, things must adapt and evolve.
The MMO gamer of 10 years ago had different expectations. Actually, they had none. The genre was new, the worlds were new, the concept was new. It was easy to forgive the many flaws because we had not partaken of them yet. It was easy, for instance, to ignore how %&$&ing bad "LFG" for 3 hours used to be. It was easy to forget how lame needing a group to kill ONE orc was (when, in reality, we all just wanted to be that bad arsed warrior or mage nuking the piss out of everything in sight). Hell, we even forget that the Orc was new...and the ideal of killing him with a giant sword while playing in a world where thousands of other real people were playing was new too.
We know these things now, if only subconciously. The orc isn't new, we don't get the same sensation for seeing him in battle now. The LFG functions have had to see major changes to hasten finding a group to address player dropoff due to heavy downtime. The games have had to be made simpler, so that all players could at least SEE the content. A major factor in the terrible market for MMO's was the fact that over half their content was completely unviewable by most people. Why pay for something you can never experience?
WoW has taken ideals for other sources, naturally. Every last creative person on the planet does. Do you seriously think Tom Clancy "invented" espionage or small strike forces? Perhaps Stephen King invented Dark fantasy? Did Toyota invent a motorized vehichle? Do you really think musicians today aren't using ideals long thought up by other musicians? Hell, there are only 7 notes....and there have been millions upon millions of musicians. Those notes got reused...A LOT. Its completely ludicrous to expect ANYTHING to be 100% innovation and 100% new. Not one single thing truly ever is.
WoW HAS given us a solid reference point to proving that the genre must always be at a state of advancement. Note that the many games which have come out merely using a similar system (with virtually no advancement) and new skins have failed. Note also that EVE is doing very well. Never dismiss any success in any industry as "watered down" or a "joke". A success is indicative of some underlying change in the nature of the consumer. Being aware of these changes is critical, because without a solid consumer base these games can't draw investors...which means they can't pay for quality work. None of us should be saying a single ill word about WoW. We should be trying to advance what success it has shown us and begin moving the genre forward yet again.
Anything is preferable to the stagnate crap we are being fed right now.
Wow forget my post this guy says it all. Very well written! I love it.
I will quote this guy because he said about the same as my thoughts was. If he would not be right all the car makers copied Ford since they where the first ones to make a car.
This is a pretty shallow argument, it's more akin to City of Heroes/Villains badge system than anything that was in EQ. I mean sure the EQ's alternate growth system has a similar name, but it's a different mechanic entirely.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I really think it's hilarious when I read things like "WoW does it better".
Graphics have always been unimpressive to me, there have been a limited amount of spell selections, and Class balance has always been a BIG problem. Not to mention PvP gear destroys actual PvP.
Before PvP gear some level 40-50 chars would find eachother, and even if one had the best optimal gear for his/her level, the other char could still win with "decent" gear, i'm talking good white/green gear. With PvP gear, once somebody has a set they have a pretty huge advantage over someone who does not. It may take talent to get PvP gear, but it doesn't take talent to own a guy in season 1 with your season 4.
As for class balance, well I have one word for you. Shamans.
And dont' give me this "But they are actually alright in 1v1 now and they can dps in all talent trees now". You know or should know, that they were a laughing stock for years with the exception of less than a handfull of shaman celebrities.
And you know what's even worse? They are CONSTANTLY messing up things that aren't broken with the good intention of fixinig something else. They've changed stat behavior numerous times since launch not to mention adding in diminishing returns to classes which rely on ...oh forget it. I'm probably talking to paladins anyways.
I disagree. When Japanese RPGS began gaining popularity they brought more people to the RPG genre than it had previously ever known. Unfortunately along with the fans, it also brought new expectations of the genre, such as in depth story telling that stifles freedom and open-endedness, ridiculous monsters (robotic dogs) and "heros" who are nothing more than little boys and girls with very large eyes and pointy pink hair.
Call me what you want, but I have not played one FF game nor do I ever plan on playing any of them or any other anime style game.
Also, rap brings millions of young listeners into the realm of music. That fact has never stopped me for making fun of rap, nor will it ever stop me from doing so.
The point is, just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good. And in today's society entertainment in general is becoming more and more dumbed down every day, so the fact that something is popular just means that it is significantly dumbed down. (the fact that rap even exists as a musical genre is a perfect example of this).
Actually,
If you play Xbox 360 they have an achievement system as well. So who's to say Sony didn't steal it from Blizzard or Microsoft? You don't know.
Everyone knows that EQ2 has been failing slowly since launch. With good reason too. They have the worst customer service in the world, they let their developers give strategies away to their online friends which ruins gameplay for their most loyal players -- the hard core raiders. Have you never seen the developer posts on EQ2flames?
I played EQ2 since launch and quit last year. Do not even cry about EQ2. Sony is way worse than Blizzard and deserves no ones sympathy.That game is a piece of shit and will always be a piece of shit until it gets out of Sony's hands. No offense, but I don't think you have a clue as to what is really going on.
Have fun in your fail of a game though.
It seems blueberry likes to play POS...first he says EQ2 is and always be a POS and then states he played it until last year. *BOGGLE*
That being said, the OP is frustrated but way out of line. Developers have often freely admitted to sharing features from other games, it is no big secret or conspiracy so just chill out.
Like i said. Blizzards new MMO will be all the best features of every MMO out Right now put into their NEW MMO and calling it World of -Blank-
World of SoE according to the original poster.
Games need to progress and change in order to keep people interested. If you were playing one of the games that you think was ripped off and are now playing the one you think is doing the ripping. You switched for a reason?
We all move on and play things that grab our attention, and leave games when they lose our interest.
I played EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, DDO, WoW, Warhammer...and a few other pay to play games online. I am now into F2P games, dont know why, just am. Having a blast for now, but who knows what the future holds for me in online gaming.......Peace!
Have Fun or Don't Do It !
LOL at you OP, how did you become an elite member of this site, you sound like someone who lives in a one game box.
Because Sony Cant SUE Blizzard Entertainment.
Here is why.
Sony released a bunch of failure MMORPG's/ Killed Planetside, Ruined Everquest 2 for a lot of people, and SWG, and lost a lot of subscribers due to their new EULA, and Lied to people about never allowing real money trading, so they lack the founds for a lawsuite.
Second, Even if they had the founds, they cant sue blizzard for putting in an achivement system, because its their own, unless it is using all the exact same stuff everquest did, exact same words, ect. As it would never hold up in court or law, unless actual evidence was provided blizzard ripped it out of everquest.
Third it is like saying this.
Im the one who first Invented a Car, No one else can make one, only me.
Your gaming experience must be extremely limited, if you belive that EQ/EQ2 was the origin to everything. It's kinda sad that ppl actually can be so naive and narrowminded.
So I guess Microsoft should pay respects to EQ for their Achievement System?
And I wonder why I hate so many people. With people like the OP, it's hard not to hate on people.
I disagree. When Japanese RPGS began gaining popularity they brought more people to the RPG genre than it had previously ever known. Unfortunately along with the fans, it also brought new expectations of the genre, such as in depth story telling that stifles freedom and open-endedness, ridiculous monsters (robotic dogs) and "heros" who are nothing more than little boys and girls with very large eyes and pointy pink hair.
Call me what you want, but I have not played one FF game nor do I ever plan on playing any of them or any other anime style game.
Also, rap brings millions of young listeners into the realm of music. That fact has never stopped me for making fun of rap, nor will it ever stop me from doing so.
The point is, just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good. And in today's society entertainment in general is becoming more and more dumbed down every day, so the fact that something is popular just means that it is significantly dumbed down. (the fact that rap even exists as a musical genre is a perfect example of this).
I very much agree here. WoW has not really contributed much innovation to MMO's other than shear numbers. One thing to remember is that if WoW never got as big as it has, we would not be plagued with a new POS MMO every other day... Game developers would actually be trying to make quality MMO's rather than stare at WoW with money signs in their eyes
((>_<)) ~Aesoa
I rest my case,this is the kind of mentality,people have that praise Blizzard.You congratulate them for ripping off EQ. You mean EQ of course,because they have nothing from other games,99% eq all over again.Apparently you are of the minority because it seems every other MMO that rips off games gets ridiculed by the entire public[DnL is one case],the ONLY reason it doesn't here is because the majority are all playing WOW,you think they are going to call themselves idiots for supporting a RIP off developer?If it was another game ,they are VERY quick to jump however,extreme biased here IMO.
Take the example of SOE posting they were going to copy a business model[runescape i believe],then the forum was full of people bashing SOE ,stating ridiculous things like they were out right copying a game.Copying a business model and ripping off a game are two different things.The point is that they were VERY quick to jump in because it was SOE,yet it is fine for Blizzard?
You also point out the typical Blizzard fanbois response i see ALL the time "Money talks "lol,yep always the same ,it is never the game that stands on it it's own two feet ,it is always the money argument ..again lol.
You say do it right,my god have i heard that before lmao,they do it 99% EXACTLY the same,so what on earth are you talking about?They do NOT take parts from other games,they have re hashed EQ exactly,they do not do it different or right,they do it the SAME.
This is like saying it is ok to rip off music,because it is done right [free].Until Blizzard gets their act together and shows they are a developer and not a EQ rip off artist,i will continue,to give them NO credit.That is why the term DEVELOPER exists,you have to actually develope your game.The game WOW ,is a decent game of course ,after all it is Everquest with a different name,cheaper graphics.
Oh OP, you have been copying everything from me in your post. Every alphabet you used above, I have been using for years. Every word you used above, I have at least used a thousand times before you did. BUT, you used them to present something I have not done so, nor in the same way, with the same effects as you do. Should I still call you a copycat?
No, you have been excessively obessesed with the idea of ownership. We do not own things, we come to the earth nake and we die naked. Nothing is ours. Your ideas evolved from things people do, you either copy them 100% or 95% or mesh different ideas, into your own. The entire copyright and intellectual property argument has been pushed way too far. Knowledge and ideas are a process of evolution, of which everyone share with everyone else.
For the case of WoW and EQ, I played both. I would say WoW placed Achievement in a game with a lot more features and population than EQ's AA, and as such the Achievement of WoW brings more fun to me as a whole than AA of EQ. No credit to Blizz or Sony, just that as a matter of fun, WoW has it better overall. After all, I do not play WoW or EQ just for Achievement or AA alone, I play for the whole package.
I knew you had no idea what you were talking about when you said this. Blizzard Entertainment is a pioneer of modern day gaming. They redefined the RPG genre with Diablo 1, The MMORPG genre with World of Warcraft, and the RTS genre with Warcraft and Starcraft.
Although I do agree that they have been stealing other game's mechanics and ideas lately, they are still a great company. They have yet to make a bad/unsuccessful game. And though Blizzard has kind of put me off lately with World of Warcraft and their inability to balance the classes to a reasonable level, I still can appreciate what they were/are.
TheNewGuy: Ultima Online (Catskills)