Leveling 1-60 in wow has become increasingly easier, but for the simple reason that they want you to get to the expansion content faster. People rolling alts dont want to spend time on content they have already played a lot before. Anyway, the game is far from over when you hit top level, so I don't see why that would be an issue?
I don't know if any of you saw the animated movie Wall-E
For those of you who have then picture all the people living on that spaceship and their lifestyle to the point where they forgot how to walk.
That's basically the image i have of todays MMO. "hey lets download a mod that rings a bell when it's time to heal player A" or "Lets follow the arrows to our quest destination"
MMO's used to be a second job. They required you were 100% focused on the game. Today they cater to Mr. and Ms. 9 to 5 that just want to log in and kill a few mobs before bedtime or catering to the kids where they can go and get that uber sword of E-peen between homework and chores. MMO's have become so mainstream and casual in search of the big buck, it has litteraly sucked the soul out of the genre. The casuals love it and the hardcore fans hate it. The more your hands are held through the game the more mass appeal it will have.
It's like that indie rock garage band you used to love, that goes mainstream where every record they record is made to capture the Hanna Montanna/Zac Effron audience just so they can get a little taste of "rock" in a watered down form. You used to be proud telling people about your sophisticated music taste to those that understood..now only to be laughed at.
Yup that's pretty much how i view how my favorite genre has been completely annihilated.
I just think new MMO's are making games TO easy! I miss the challenge. But if a game were to come out that was hard, would it actually suceed? No. I think the MMO genre has gotten to be to easy, and nobody would like the challenge anymore.
because playing a game is NOT all about challenges. It is about new experiences and fun. It is NOT fun if i cannot kill the big boss in the dungeon after 10 trials.
Plus, a lot of the stuff you mentioned are not challenges. They are grunt work. It is trivial to talk to everyone in a town for quests. There is no challenge in that but a boat load of wasted time. I would MUCH rather the quest NPCs are pointed out to me.
To start off, I began my MMO career playing Asherons Call. I never got into EQ or Ultima Online. I think the new MMO's are gearing for the younger crowed by making the games easier, thus making us Experienced MMO players lazy! I remember Asherons Call - To learn a spell you had to FIND / BUY the scroll, or you had to learn it by testing a random cobinations of componants. Sure down the road there was an application that told you all the combinations. But for the first while, only the uber l33t had the cool great spells. You had to carry componants! If you ran out of Hyssop, or Red Tapers YOU COULDNT CAST UBER HEAL OR UBER FLAME SPELL! When you died, you lost X amount of items on your character. You would have to gether up a group of higher levels to help you get your body because you were a n00b exploring the Obsidian planes! There were no classes, you had to figure out your build all by yourself. I remember putting XP into the wrong skills by accident, or learning the wrong skills. Like Armor and Weapon Identify! Again, sure enough later down the road they added the ability to drop skills. There were no quest NPCs and auto run to next target. You had to grind and learn quests all by yourself. It would take guilds days and weeks to figure out a quest line. It took time and team work to discover a quest. There was a sence of community. Walking into a town and seeing Tim the Enchantor a level 90!!!! OMG nobody was that level, he was a GOD!
I just think new MMO's are making games TO easy! I miss the challenge. But if a game were to come out that was hard, would it actually suceed? No. I think the MMO genre has gotten to be to easy, and nobody would like the challenge anymore.
LOL .. everything you listed does NOT make a MMO more challenging. Only more grindy. Listen to yourself. Requiring components for spells is not difficult NOR fun. It just means that you have to go to town more to stock up. A three yr old can do that.
Old MMO adds to the grind and chalk it up to a challenge. That is silly. I would much prefer modern MMOs that focus on the FUN.
Requiring a component is maybe more rpg in appeal- WoW is very focused around instant gratification and gameplay so stuff like that just wouldn't be in it, a game more focused around providing a more indepth rpg play might require components.
Though other stuff mentioned and maybe that isn't that appealling really like:
There were no quest NPCs and auto run to next target. You had to grind and learn quests all by yourself. It would take guilds days and weeks to figure out a quest line. It took time and team work to discover a quest.
Taking days and weeks to figure a quest-line? Surely a game wants the user to find all it's content rather than a load of trial-error to figure it out?
There were no classes, you had to figure out your build all by yourself. I remember putting XP into the wrong skills by accident, or learning the wrong skills. Like Armor and Weapon Identify! Again, sure enough later down the road they added the ability to drop skills.
When you're putting a load of time into a character and it especially being the first one I think it is right that you are able to alter that investment of skill-points. But Class or skill-based is just two varieties of game and some modern games might seek to be skill-based instead of class-based.
Those things you speak of are just painful. I played UO when it first came out and that is the very reason I quit. I am married with 3 children and when I actually get an hour or so of free time to play, I want that time to actually be productive. I want to have made at least a little progress. Loading a game up with tedious tasks just keeps us light to medium players from getting anywhere compared to these 12 year olds who can sink their entire weekend into an MMO without blinking an eye. The only thing I agree with you on is the autorun to the next quest target, etc. I tried Ether Saga Online and you can pretty much autorun to everything. You don't have to figure out where anything is. And so far the monsters are so non-agressive you can pretty much click autorun and then go make yourself a sandwich. Which is taking it a bit far. I think a delicate balance has to be aceived between challenge and convenience. It's easy to go too far one way or the other. That's why game design is such a difficult art and science rolled in to one.
Wow. When UO came out I spend HOURS in the woods chopping trees. Countless hours mining and smelting ingots. Only to spend HOURS in town crafting it into stuff to sell. If you wanted to role play a crafter you actually could. Or if you wanted to be a blacksmith that could use his exceptional wares to kill people and/or monsters you could. Oh yah... and you could cash spells if you wanted...
Now you have to answer the question... Do you want to use Magic? Yes or No? Yes. Ok now you suck at using any weapons. LoL wut? I can't be a mage with a sword?
I agree with the OP 110%. Ultima Online was amazing. Miners in the miners mining. Lumberjacks chopping trees. Guys grouping to kill monsters and get skills. I knew people by their name in real life. I had a score of people on ICQ(Anyone remember that?) and we would play together. Sure there are guilds in the new game but the community outside of the guild is VERY weak in the new game. I knew everyone that killed dragons in Covetous lvl 5. I knew all the guys that used the bank in Occlo. I knew all the guys that were 'cool' enough to have runes to the Britain bank roof. That community is gone outside of guilds now.
Also requires reagents for spells was awesome. You are fighting PvP and OH SHIT!?!?!?!?? No Mandrake Root?!?!!? FAWK... most new age MMORPG players don't even know what that feels like. The pulse of PvP that mattered. Or a dragon is attacking you... OMG you are going to die. I KNEW I shouldn't have brought my Silver, Power Katana here...
Old Skool Ultima Online Junky Bring back the OLD UO so I can play again
I like to explore, but I absolutely hate wild goose chases in games. I don't have a great sense of direction and tend to get lost easily. That's just the type of person I am, and unfortunately it translates into games. Any kind of quest tracker is a complete godsend to me, and it kind of ticks me off when people talk about quest trackers on here like its some huge crutch.
So what you are good at tracking quests, always know where you are going, and never get lost? I get lost inside cities I have been to 200 times. It doesn't make me a lazy player, just not real good at that kind of thing. That's like saying, hey, I'm a great killer, so any average person using any kind of weapons is just a crutch.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I have been playing online games since I was 8, that was back in 1995 when Meridian 59 was hitting the US. Well since I am from Germany and with 8 years there has not been a possibility to get a game without problems, I had to convince an older friend to get me the game from the US and bring it back to Germany, I was lucky he was on holidays in NY by that time.
As I've held the game in my hands it felt like the holy grail, something totaly new, even more the features of the game, compared to games that had been released recently, were very innovative.
I have played Meridian for like 14 month, then I read about Ultima Online, damn it was nice to read the features about this new game. I can remember how I was trying to get as much informations about UO as possible, not like the internet was not flooded with them, but after surfing through the net for game informations all day, you just don't get new infos anymore.
Before UO came out there was another upcoming game that was supposed to be released in January 1997, Diablo was its name.
Well as nice as Meridian has been, Diablo was something more interesting for me, thus I was playing Diablo 1 from January 1997 to December 1997 when OU was released.
I would say - even though I've had a 2 year course change through a MUD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD - I have always been playing MMORPGS, from the day I can remember.
Since Meridian I have strived through about 30 MMORPG's, including about 10 free to play MMO's and I have never been really satisfied. I was close to being satisfied from time to time, about when Star Wars Galaxies pre CU was still available. Or do you remember the good old times of playing World of Warcraft when it was released in the US? I really loved the game, now it is a shade of what it was back then, but a good selling shade I have to admit.
But lets be realistic, people change and so do MMO's.
We have become lazy, that is right, but so has the gaming industry.
I am actualy working in the gaming industry myself, close with developers and creative minds, but at the moment everything is just a copy of a copy of a copy with some goodies. The new called "Innovation..."
Companies praising their game, removing about 70% of the announced features before it is released and giving a poor support. Well maybe this is what will continue, making money and giving crap for it, not like we're not used to that in a super market already.
I do not say there aren't any MMORPG's that are innovative, they just can't compete with games as I remember then back in 1995 or even 2003.
People have become lazy, aka as a developer / producer you will try to get as many customers as possible, if they are lazy you just give them goodies and assist them in their lazyness - Never try to work against the customer . I remember the /pizza command for the US version of WoW, sorry but for americans that was an epic fail ^^'.
As I've said earlier, people change - and so do these producing / developing a game.
The industry itself has changed over the years, you will not see a game like UO, a MUD or Star Wars Galaxies coming out any soon. People playing MMORPG's at the moment are mostly testing their first or second MMO, thus the industry needs to make it easy to play for people that never played a MMO before.
As a "veteran" (damn I hate these titles...) I understand this kind of approach, but on the other hand I can see our "veterans" complaining about a game that is too low, doesn't need skill or is just different from the games they've used to play.
I am honest to myself, I don't like the MMO's coming out recently but I play them, or at least I give them a try, yet I am sure I won't find "THE GAME" I've been looking for a long time.
A game that includes:
* Consistency: Too many bugs will get people freaked out on the launch - even though they should have learned from the past. This might even split the community into "fanbois" (lost souls) and "haters"... at a very early stage. Look into the DF forum, you will see what I mean by this... A shame actualy.
* Honesty: You have difficuilties implementing core features into a game? No problem, just be freakin' honest with your customers! Waiting for 2-3 more month isn't such a problem, as you can see with AION at the moment. Just be honest and they'll understand. People that do not understand have no sense for a good MMORPG.
* Innovation: DO NOT copy a copy of a game that was successful! Having 11 million customers does NOT mean you have a game that is full of innovation. It only means you have done your homework and know how to sell something to someone. I am sure, Blizzard has the right guys. They would even be able to sell a Banana MMO to monkeys!
* Credibility: You have great ideas? You have a great team of creative minds? AWESOME! Now just don't get exaggerated and mess it up. Stay realistic, you will not bring out a game with MASS PvP of 500 people and the graphics of a DX10 game like crysis. No you won't, do not even think about it. The community doesn't want you to be the most innovative studio ever, they want you to give them a new home. Something they can do after work / school. Of course you should not throw away great ideas, but lets focus on the stuff that is doable. If your idea is not possible for the moment, think about implementing it when the time is right. An Addon is always great for things like these.
* Communication: A lot of MMO's recently came silent or didn't give out enough informations. From time to time I tend to think this could be based on their concept of "honesty...". Praising features that will not be in-game once final, is nothing you want to tell your potential customers about in advance, is it? Well that's why being honest is always pays best... A community can be formed around anything, not only when a game is launched. Get 1 community manager per language you want the game to be launched in, have your own forum and keep the people up to date with the developement status. This includes fan-fests, beta updates, beta keys etc. You will need a very strong player base of experienced and unexperienced customers to make your game possible even before it has been released. Do not try to shut their mouth too much, give them limits but do not have an NDA that is active until 3 days before launch. If you're really confident you've done the right thing you will not need a real NDA and people will thank you for that!
But I should drop it, I would be able to complete this list further and further, going nowhere. As of right now this isn't the game a company is going to develop. As of the moment they're mostly interested in a) getting as much $ as possible - b) spending as less $ as possible - c) being as fast as possible to make more $. It's true, the industry isn't about passion for games anymore, it is about $-$-$...
As we are too lazy to even care about it anymore, most of us would play any game that gives us the feeling we had in previous games, but this ain't happening soon, thus we will strive from game to game in our endless hunger.
I do not say I want all the old games back in their unpolished shell, but from time to time something "less innovative" might make the difference in a world of "innovations".
Im 24 and back when I started in Ultima Online I could play almost all the time.
Nowadays Im a lawyer and my time is short.
Money is not a problem anymore, but time is.
Even though, Im still waiting... looking for a mmorpg with certain design decisions and game mechanics I dont see anymore.
A persistant game, where I have freedom, where the devs knows the players will do the wrong thing but dont intervene, where groups of people rule and change the world for the bad at their will (like some shadowbane servers), where punishments for player kill isnt an automatic effect of a game mechanic but a social reaction (no bullshit flag systems), a game where the evolution is so deep and infinite that balance is not an issue, a game without classes, levels or ranks limitations, a game where devs wont ever nerf anything directly or comparativelly because they are competent enough, where the destination isnt more important then the path because reaching the destination is near impossible for 95% of the player base, a game that trully rewards time and effort spent through power over others without using a declining graphic line, a game where time spent on development of features are not forced upon everyone, with life like npcs with their own goals, interests, evolving and interacting with the world around, where developers waste development time creating content that only 5% of the player base will interact with, the ability to transcend the boundaries of what is possible randomly for just 1% of the player base (like the first jedis of swg), a game where there are no kill x stuff, fetch x items, talk to x npcs, go from a to b quest, none of those, not even one, a game where quests are global and once achieved they are done, causing permanent effects and the ones who completed mark the history and receive unique and worthy rewards, a game that allows a player become a hero among its own peers due to his accomplishments...
There is too much artificial, recycled, generic, over used, cheap stuff on mmorpgs. Enough of that.
Go and make 2 thousand unique quests that once completed, they are done, make history books and statues out of the players, change the world, evolve de lore, cause effects.
A game that gives players tools to express their own creativity and add to the game content. From control of resources, territories, armies, npcs, economy, political system, and their own law.
Allow everything to be built, destroyed, changed, harvested, crafted. From equipments, tools, foods, terrain, constructions, everything can be interacted with.
Create deep socializing mechanics, like an un built character memory regarding other character he met, interacted, grouped, made friends, fought against, make it like an ever increasing pda of information.
Allow people to fly, to swim, to ride mounts, boats, vehicles...
Why every MMORPG is so bland, everything is a copy of something else, with a shy different feature. Broken stuff, bugged, without proper servers, shitty support, stupid billing system, or ridiculously abusive anti ethical cash shop/item mall system, no security, full of exploits, cheats, bots... without proper testing... full of lies and deceit.... Over and over and over. Not a single in-deep mmorpg, not a single drop of love for game for gamers. Always trying to make it more simple, more easier, more instantaneous.
The motherfock**s are removing the persistance from MMORPGs, or are filling it with uninspired grind threadmills to make people waste time and waste money on artificial needs...
Why god, why! All devs who fall under that same category will fail, because people are tired, its an ever growing feeling of anxiety, everyone is tired of incompetence. They are tired of WOW as well. I watch many forums, I see thousands of peoples talking the same thing, everyone looking for a game, not their perfect subjective unachievable game. The blueprint for what people are waiting for is there to be seen, to be researched, people are willing to say what they are looking for.
When will the next gen of mmorpgs be launched?!
edit. I will leave the grammar mistakes as proof of my emotional state vomitting this.
To start off, I began my MMO career playing Asherons Call. I never got into EQ or Ultima Online. I think the new MMO's are gearing for the younger crowed by making the games easier, thus making us Experienced MMO players lazy! I remember Asherons Call - To learn a spell you had to FIND / BUY the scroll, or you had to learn it by testing a random cobinations of componants. Sure down the road there was an application that told you all the combinations. But for the first while, only the uber l33t had the cool great spells. You had to carry componants! If you ran out of Hyssop, or Red Tapers YOU COULDNT CAST UBER HEAL OR UBER FLAME SPELL! When you died, you lost X amount of items on your character. You would have to gether up a group of higher levels to help you get your body because you were a n00b exploring the Obsidian planes! There were no classes, you had to figure out your build all by yourself. I remember putting XP into the wrong skills by accident, or learning the wrong skills. Like Armor and Weapon Identify! Again, sure enough later down the road they added the ability to drop skills. There were no quest NPCs and auto run to next target. You had to grind and learn quests all by yourself. It would take guilds days and weeks to figure out a quest line. It took time and team work to discover a quest. There was a sence of community. Walking into a town and seeing Tim the Enchantor a level 90!!!! OMG nobody was that level, he was a GOD!
I just think new MMO's are making games TO easy! I miss the challenge. But if a game were to come out that was hard, would it actually suceed? No. I think the MMO genre has gotten to be to easy, and nobody would like the challenge anymore.
I agree fully but what i think is that its "Lazy devs making unfinished MMO's and calling them Next Gen"
To start off, I began my MMO career playing Asherons Call. I never got into EQ or Ultima Online. I think the new MMO's are gearing for the younger crowed by making the games easier, thus making us Experienced MMO players lazy! I remember Asherons Call - To learn a spell you had to FIND / BUY the scroll, or you had to learn it by testing a random cobinations of componants. Sure down the road there was an application that told you all the combinations. But for the first while, only the uber l33t had the cool great spells. You had to carry componants! If you ran out of Hyssop, or Red Tapers YOU COULDNT CAST UBER HEAL OR UBER FLAME SPELL! When you died, you lost X amount of items on your character. You would have to gether up a group of higher levels to help you get your body because you were a n00b exploring the Obsidian planes! There were no classes, you had to figure out your build all by yourself. I remember putting XP into the wrong skills by accident, or learning the wrong skills. Like Armor and Weapon Identify! Again, sure enough later down the road they added the ability to drop skills. There were no quest NPCs and auto run to next target. You had to grind and learn quests all by yourself. It would take guilds days and weeks to figure out a quest line. It took time and team work to discover a quest. There was a sence of community. Walking into a town and seeing Tim the Enchantor a level 90!!!! OMG nobody was that level, he was a GOD!
I just think new MMO's are making games TO easy! I miss the challenge. But if a game were to come out that was hard, would it actually suceed? No. I think the MMO genre has gotten to be to easy, and nobody would like the challenge anymore.
The games arent making this generation lazy,This generation is lazy and the companies are just makeing products that they can handle.
I have 2 kids, a wife, a house, and a full time job. I'm studying to get a C# cert on top of my 4 year degree I got while I was a single father with 100% custody, working a full time job and going to schoo
LOL .. everything you listed does NOT make a MMO more challenging. Only more grindy. Listen to yourself. Requiring components for spells is not difficult NOR fun. It just means that you have to go to town more to stock up. A three yr old can do that. Old MMO adds to the grind and chalk it up to a challenge. That is silly. I would much prefer modern MMOs that focus on the FUN.
Well, I assume that you havent play the game in early release. So shut the hell up and before u yapping your mouth. I know how this is because I been there for carry components before tapers comes out.(which sucks) I never felt any fun like AC that is released. Stop posting that you dont know what you are talking about or experinced the game! All MMORPG game is about grinding anyhow. If you dont like to grind, go pvp or play other game instead of "RPG".
OK when will everyone learn that not 1 gamer is the same?
Challenge: anything, as a demanding task, that calls for special effort or dedication. (copied definition)
Some gamers want a challenge, other gamers call that challenge an nussence, hassel, grind or w/e. If it was not difficult it would not be called a challenge. A challenge is NOT meant to be easy.
Some people like me are completly and utterly sick of hoping from MMO to MMO every few months playing through easy mode MMO's. What you easy mode players need to understand is that some gamers hate having everything spoon feed to them. I know that concept is hard for easy mode players to understand. Why would anyone want to work for something in a game? Because we have a sense of accomplishment. The harder it is to obtain the better we feel if we ever get it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I think devs are partialy to blame too, it's them that keep releasing lazy game, cookie cutter of WOW. Personnally i've been waiting for the next real sandbox game. It seems that niche is to risky for anyone to try.
Killing 1000 mobs for my next level, gear, or whatever simply isn't fun, especially as it's a test of endurance, not actual skill or anything else.
Then PvE isnt for you, PVP is.
Having to kill 1000 mobs for the next level, gear, or whatever a bunch of times still isn't fun if it's gearing up for PvP rather than for more PvE.
Well killing 1000 mobs is better then doing 1000 pointless quests for the next level, gear or whatever a bunch of times.
I rather get a group and go find a good place to hunt and explorer then to run pointless quests over and over because they give stupid amount of exp.
The problem is that the current MMO give you a billion quests that all give you far to much exp which stops players from grouping to gain exp because group exp is far less then quest exp.
OK when will everyone learn that not 1 gamer is the same? Challenge: anything, as a demanding task, that calls for special effort or dedication. (copied definition) Some gamers want a challenge, other gamers call that challenge an nussence, hassel, grind or w/e. If it was not difficult it would not be called a challenge. A challenge is NOT meant to be easy. Some people like me are completly and utterly sick of hoping from MMO to MMO every few months playing through easy mode MMO's. What you easy mode players need to understand is that some gamers hate having everything spoon feed to them. I know that concept is hard for easy mode players to understand. Why would anyone want to work for something in a game? Because we have a sense of accomplishment. The harder it is to obtain the better we feel if we ever get it.
I'm not sure where you copied that from, but it's a terrible definition. Let's find a better one.
A lot of the definitions obviously aren't what's meant in an MMORPG, such as "the assertion that a vote is invalid or that a voter is not legally qualified."
The one that is most relevant to an MMORPG is #5:
"difficulty in a job or undertaking that is stimulating to one engaged in it."
Comments
Leveling 1-60 in wow has become increasingly easier, but for the simple reason that they want you to get to the expansion content faster. People rolling alts dont want to spend time on content they have already played a lot before. Anyway, the game is far from over when you hit top level, so I don't see why that would be an issue?
I don't know if any of you saw the animated movie Wall-E
For those of you who have then picture all the people living on that spaceship and their lifestyle to the point where they forgot how to walk.
That's basically the image i have of todays MMO. "hey lets download a mod that rings a bell when it's time to heal player A" or "Lets follow the arrows to our quest destination"
MMO's used to be a second job. They required you were 100% focused on the game. Today they cater to Mr. and Ms. 9 to 5 that just want to log in and kill a few mobs before bedtime or catering to the kids where they can go and get that uber sword of E-peen between homework and chores. MMO's have become so mainstream and casual in search of the big buck, it has litteraly sucked the soul out of the genre. The casuals love it and the hardcore fans hate it. The more your hands are held through the game the more mass appeal it will have.
It's like that indie rock garage band you used to love, that goes mainstream where every record they record is made to capture the Hanna Montanna/Zac Effron audience just so they can get a little taste of "rock" in a watered down form. You used to be proud telling people about your sophisticated music taste to those that understood..now only to be laughed at.
Yup that's pretty much how i view how my favorite genre has been completely annihilated.
Very true, but I'm just not a PvE/Raiding kinda guy, and thats what you do at top level.
Arena is stupid, IMHO.
because playing a game is NOT all about challenges. It is about new experiences and fun. It is NOT fun if i cannot kill the big boss in the dungeon after 10 trials.
Plus, a lot of the stuff you mentioned are not challenges. They are grunt work. It is trivial to talk to everyone in a town for quests. There is no challenge in that but a boat load of wasted time. I would MUCH rather the quest NPCs are pointed out to me.
Very interresting discussion... it must continu!
-------------------------------------
Before: developers loved games and made money.
Now: developers love money and make games.
LOL .. everything you listed does NOT make a MMO more challenging. Only more grindy. Listen to yourself. Requiring components for spells is not difficult NOR fun. It just means that you have to go to town more to stock up. A three yr old can do that.
Old MMO adds to the grind and chalk it up to a challenge. That is silly. I would much prefer modern MMOs that focus on the FUN.
Requiring a component is maybe more rpg in appeal- WoW is very focused around instant gratification and gameplay so stuff like that just wouldn't be in it, a game more focused around providing a more indepth rpg play might require components.
Though other stuff mentioned and maybe that isn't that appealling really like:
Taking days and weeks to figure a quest-line? Surely a game wants the user to find all it's content rather than a load of trial-error to figure it out?
When you're putting a load of time into a character and it especially being the first one I think it is right that you are able to alter that investment of skill-points. But Class or skill-based is just two varieties of game and some modern games might seek to be skill-based instead of class-based.
Wow. When UO came out I spend HOURS in the woods chopping trees. Countless hours mining and smelting ingots. Only to spend HOURS in town crafting it into stuff to sell. If you wanted to role play a crafter you actually could. Or if you wanted to be a blacksmith that could use his exceptional wares to kill people and/or monsters you could. Oh yah... and you could cash spells if you wanted...
Now you have to answer the question... Do you want to use Magic? Yes or No? Yes. Ok now you suck at using any weapons. LoL wut? I can't be a mage with a sword?
I agree with the OP 110%. Ultima Online was amazing. Miners in the miners mining. Lumberjacks chopping trees. Guys grouping to kill monsters and get skills. I knew people by their name in real life. I had a score of people on ICQ(Anyone remember that?) and we would play together. Sure there are guilds in the new game but the community outside of the guild is VERY weak in the new game. I knew everyone that killed dragons in Covetous lvl 5. I knew all the guys that used the bank in Occlo. I knew all the guys that were 'cool' enough to have runes to the Britain bank roof. That community is gone outside of guilds now.
Also requires reagents for spells was awesome. You are fighting PvP and OH SHIT!?!?!?!?? No Mandrake Root?!?!!? FAWK... most new age MMORPG players don't even know what that feels like. The pulse of PvP that mattered. Or a dragon is attacking you... OMG you are going to die. I KNEW I shouldn't have brought my Silver, Power Katana here...
Old Skool Ultima Online Junky
Bring back the OLD UO so I can play again
I like to explore, but I absolutely hate wild goose chases in games. I don't have a great sense of direction and tend to get lost easily. That's just the type of person I am, and unfortunately it translates into games. Any kind of quest tracker is a complete godsend to me, and it kind of ticks me off when people talk about quest trackers on here like its some huge crutch.
So what you are good at tracking quests, always know where you are going, and never get lost? I get lost inside cities I have been to 200 times. It doesn't make me a lazy player, just not real good at that kind of thing. That's like saying, hey, I'm a great killer, so any average person using any kind of weapons is just a crutch.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Well... how do I start?
I have been playing online games since I was 8, that was back in 1995 when Meridian 59 was hitting the US. Well since I am from Germany and with 8 years there has not been a possibility to get a game without problems, I had to convince an older friend to get me the game from the US and bring it back to Germany, I was lucky he was on holidays in NY by that time.
As I've held the game in my hands it felt like the holy grail, something totaly new, even more the features of the game, compared to games that had been released recently, were very innovative.
I have played Meridian for like 14 month, then I read about Ultima Online, damn it was nice to read the features about this new game. I can remember how I was trying to get as much informations about UO as possible, not like the internet was not flooded with them, but after surfing through the net for game informations all day, you just don't get new infos anymore.
Before UO came out there was another upcoming game that was supposed to be released in January 1997, Diablo was its name.
Well as nice as Meridian has been, Diablo was something more interesting for me, thus I was playing Diablo 1 from January 1997 to December 1997 when OU was released.
I would say - even though I've had a 2 year course change through a MUD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD - I have always been playing MMORPGS, from the day I can remember.
Since Meridian I have strived through about 30 MMORPG's, including about 10 free to play MMO's and I have never been really satisfied. I was close to being satisfied from time to time, about when Star Wars Galaxies pre CU was still available. Or do you remember the good old times of playing World of Warcraft when it was released in the US? I really loved the game, now it is a shade of what it was back then, but a good selling shade I have to admit.
But lets be realistic, people change and so do MMO's.
We have become lazy, that is right, but so has the gaming industry.
I am actualy working in the gaming industry myself, close with developers and creative minds, but at the moment everything is just a copy of a copy of a copy with some goodies. The new called "Innovation..."
Companies praising their game, removing about 70% of the announced features before it is released and giving a poor support. Well maybe this is what will continue, making money and giving crap for it, not like we're not used to that in a super market already.
I do not say there aren't any MMORPG's that are innovative, they just can't compete with games as I remember then back in 1995 or even 2003.
People have become lazy, aka as a developer / producer you will try to get as many customers as possible, if they are lazy you just give them goodies and assist them in their lazyness - Never try to work against the customer
. I remember the /pizza command for the US version of WoW, sorry but for americans that was an epic fail ^^'.
As I've said earlier, people change - and so do these producing / developing a game.
The industry itself has changed over the years, you will not see a game like UO, a MUD or Star Wars Galaxies coming out any soon. People playing MMORPG's at the moment are mostly testing their first or second MMO, thus the industry needs to make it easy to play for people that never played a MMO before.
As a "veteran" (damn I hate these titles...) I understand this kind of approach, but on the other hand I can see our "veterans" complaining about a game that is too low, doesn't need skill or is just different from the games they've used to play.
I am honest to myself, I don't like the MMO's coming out recently but I play them, or at least I give them a try, yet I am sure I won't find "THE GAME" I've been looking for a long time.
A game that includes:
* Consistency: Too many bugs will get people freaked out on the launch - even though they should have learned from the past. This might even split the community into "fanbois" (lost souls) and "haters"... at a very early stage. Look into the DF forum, you will see what I mean by this... A shame actualy.
* Honesty: You have difficuilties implementing core features into a game? No problem, just be freakin' honest with your customers! Waiting for 2-3 more month isn't such a problem, as you can see with AION at the moment. Just be honest and they'll understand. People that do not understand have no sense for a good MMORPG.
* Innovation: DO NOT copy a copy of a game that was successful! Having 11 million customers does NOT mean you have a game that is full of innovation. It only means you have done your homework and know how to sell something to someone. I am sure, Blizzard has the right guys. They would even be able to sell a Banana MMO to monkeys!
* Credibility: You have great ideas? You have a great team of creative minds? AWESOME! Now just don't get exaggerated and mess it up. Stay realistic, you will not bring out a game with MASS PvP of 500 people and the graphics of a DX10 game like crysis. No you won't, do not even think about it. The community doesn't want you to be the most innovative studio ever, they want you to give them a new home. Something they can do after work / school. Of course you should not throw away great ideas, but lets focus on the stuff that is doable. If your idea is not possible for the moment, think about implementing it when the time is right. An Addon is always great for things like these.
* Communication: A lot of MMO's recently came silent or didn't give out enough informations. From time to time I tend to think this could be based on their concept of "honesty...". Praising features that will not be in-game once final, is nothing you want to tell your potential customers about in advance, is it? Well that's why being honest is always pays best... A community can be formed around anything, not only when a game is launched. Get 1 community manager per language you want the game to be launched in, have your own forum and keep the people up to date with the developement status. This includes fan-fests, beta updates, beta keys etc. You will need a very strong player base of experienced and unexperienced customers to make your game possible even before it has been released. Do not try to shut their mouth too much, give them limits but do not have an NDA that is active until 3 days before launch. If you're really confident you've done the right thing you will not need a real NDA and people will thank you for that!
But I should drop it, I would be able to complete this list further and further, going nowhere. As of right now this isn't the game a company is going to develop. As of the moment they're mostly interested in a) getting as much $ as possible - b) spending as less $ as possible - c) being as fast as possible to make more $. It's true, the industry isn't about passion for games anymore, it is about $-$-$...
As we are too lazy to even care about it anymore, most of us would play any game that gives us the feeling we had in previous games, but this ain't happening soon, thus we will strive from game to game in our endless hunger.
I do not say I want all the old games back in their unpolished shell, but from time to time something "less innovative" might make the difference in a world of "innovations".
Cheers,
Magefist
Very true, but I'm just not a PvE/Raiding kinda guy, and thats what you do at top level.
Arena is stupid, IMHO.
Battleground is not. WG and other battlegrounds are more fun and easier to get into than raids.
Im 24 and back when I started in Ultima Online I could play almost all the time.
Nowadays Im a lawyer and my time is short.
Money is not a problem anymore, but time is.
Even though, Im still waiting... looking for a mmorpg with certain design decisions and game mechanics I dont see anymore.
A persistant game, where I have freedom, where the devs knows the players will do the wrong thing but dont intervene, where groups of people rule and change the world for the bad at their will (like some shadowbane servers), where punishments for player kill isnt an automatic effect of a game mechanic but a social reaction (no bullshit flag systems), a game where the evolution is so deep and infinite that balance is not an issue, a game without classes, levels or ranks limitations, a game where devs wont ever nerf anything directly or comparativelly because they are competent enough, where the destination isnt more important then the path because reaching the destination is near impossible for 95% of the player base, a game that trully rewards time and effort spent through power over others without using a declining graphic line, a game where time spent on development of features are not forced upon everyone, with life like npcs with their own goals, interests, evolving and interacting with the world around, where developers waste development time creating content that only 5% of the player base will interact with, the ability to transcend the boundaries of what is possible randomly for just 1% of the player base (like the first jedis of swg), a game where there are no kill x stuff, fetch x items, talk to x npcs, go from a to b quest, none of those, not even one, a game where quests are global and once achieved they are done, causing permanent effects and the ones who completed mark the history and receive unique and worthy rewards, a game that allows a player become a hero among its own peers due to his accomplishments...
There is too much artificial, recycled, generic, over used, cheap stuff on mmorpgs. Enough of that.
Go and make 2 thousand unique quests that once completed, they are done, make history books and statues out of the players, change the world, evolve de lore, cause effects.
A game that gives players tools to express their own creativity and add to the game content. From control of resources, territories, armies, npcs, economy, political system, and their own law.
Allow everything to be built, destroyed, changed, harvested, crafted. From equipments, tools, foods, terrain, constructions, everything can be interacted with.
Create deep socializing mechanics, like an un built character memory regarding other character he met, interacted, grouped, made friends, fought against, make it like an ever increasing pda of information.
Allow people to fly, to swim, to ride mounts, boats, vehicles...
Why every MMORPG is so bland, everything is a copy of something else, with a shy different feature. Broken stuff, bugged, without proper servers, shitty support, stupid billing system, or ridiculously abusive anti ethical cash shop/item mall system, no security, full of exploits, cheats, bots... without proper testing... full of lies and deceit.... Over and over and over. Not a single in-deep mmorpg, not a single drop of love for game for gamers. Always trying to make it more simple, more easier, more instantaneous.
The motherfock**s are removing the persistance from MMORPGs, or are filling it with uninspired grind threadmills to make people waste time and waste money on artificial needs...
Why god, why! All devs who fall under that same category will fail, because people are tired, its an ever growing feeling of anxiety, everyone is tired of incompetence. They are tired of WOW as well. I watch many forums, I see thousands of peoples talking the same thing, everyone looking for a game, not their perfect subjective unachievable game. The blueprint for what people are waiting for is there to be seen, to be researched, people are willing to say what they are looking for.
When will the next gen of mmorpgs be launched?!
edit. I will leave the grammar mistakes as proof of my emotional state vomitting this.
Butt
Bringing up the topic.
I agree fully but what i think is that its "Lazy devs making unfinished MMO's and calling them Next Gen"
The games arent making this generation lazy,This generation is lazy and the companies are just makeing products that they can handle.
Waiting on Guild Wars 2
This guy is friggen awesome!
Then PvE isnt for you, PVP is.
Kain_Dale
Well, I assume that you havent play the game in early release. So shut the hell up and before u yapping your mouth. I know how this is because I been there for carry components before tapers comes out.(which sucks) I never felt any fun like AC that is released. Stop posting that you dont know what you are talking about or experinced the game! All MMORPG game is about grinding anyhow. If you dont like to grind, go pvp or play other game instead of "RPG".
Kain_Dale
OK when will everyone learn that not 1 gamer is the same?
Challenge: anything, as a demanding task, that calls for special effort or dedication. (copied definition)
Some gamers want a challenge, other gamers call that challenge an nussence, hassel, grind or w/e. If it was not difficult it would not be called a challenge. A challenge is NOT meant to be easy.
Some people like me are completly and utterly sick of hoping from MMO to MMO every few months playing through easy mode MMO's. What you easy mode players need to understand is that some gamers hate having everything spoon feed to them. I know that concept is hard for easy mode players to understand. Why would anyone want to work for something in a game? Because we have a sense of accomplishment. The harder it is to obtain the better we feel if we ever get it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I think that MMO's need to reward people for taking up challenges... easy things give less reward then hard things...
But they also need to reward player skill way above time invested. When you create a game based on these two things you come close to my perfect game.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
the problem you run into here is the easy mode players think they deserve the same rewards as the ppl taking up challenges.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I think devs are partialy to blame too, it's them that keep releasing lazy game, cookie cutter of WOW. Personnally i've been waiting for the next real sandbox game. It seems that niche is to risky for anyone to try.
Then PvE isnt for you, PVP is.
Having to kill 1000 mobs for the next level, gear, or whatever a bunch of times still isn't fun if it's gearing up for PvP rather than for more PvE.
Then PvE isnt for you, PVP is.
Having to kill 1000 mobs for the next level, gear, or whatever a bunch of times still isn't fun if it's gearing up for PvP rather than for more PvE.
Well killing 1000 mobs is better then doing 1000 pointless quests for the next level, gear or whatever a bunch of times.
I rather get a group and go find a good place to hunt and explorer then to run pointless quests over and over because they give stupid amount of exp.
The problem is that the current MMO give you a billion quests that all give you far to much exp which stops players from grouping to gain exp because group exp is far less then quest exp.
Sooner or Later
I'm not sure where you copied that from, but it's a terrible definition. Let's find a better one.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/challenge
A lot of the definitions obviously aren't what's meant in an MMORPG, such as "the assertion that a vote is invalid or that a voter is not legally qualified."
The one that is most relevant to an MMORPG is #5:
"difficulty in a job or undertaking that is stimulating to one engaged in it."
Tedious is not challenging. It's only tedious.