I would be willing to try it. The Dev posting here kind of makes it sound fun. I actually commend that a member of the Dev team posts on their game. Yeah, it's nice to see developers interact with the community I dont mean to rain on anybodies parade but I have heard this MMO changing great revolution story before. There has always been some implementation flaw or something to ruin the entire game. I have learned my lesson in the past about getting excited about a revolutionary game. I hope, I truly do that some company can pull it off. Just patience. I'm full of hope for the game, and I really think this will be a great game. I can tell there are many doubtful peopel, though; which is understandable. What I am extremely weary about is all the instances. I think an MMO should just trash any idea of an instance. The dev however said it’s a different type, but I just cant buy into an instance being beneficial (I like competition). To me it sounds more like an online single RPG with spots put together for social get togethers. Well, like you said, these aren't ordinary instances. When you enter an instance, the whole world becoms your instance; it's not just one part of the land. There are many things to do outside of an instance as well. Also, I, personally, do not miond the instances. While not a hgue fan of them, I think that they will pay off for the great quests the game has. The onyl time you need to eneter an instance is when crafting or doing a quest. Personally, I'm glad there are instances; how realistic is it if you're doing an interesting quest when some person beats you to it (which, technically, isn't possible in CoS since every player has their very own quests). You could have instances in CoS which come with interestign, unique, mind-using quets, or have an uninstanced grind. Personally, I'll go with CoS.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I have been thinking more about the instances and what I look for in an MMO. I look for complete well thought out end game (content) and gameplay. I honestly dont care how I get to max level so I could live with and maybe actually like leveling alts with the system that I have read in CoS. However as for end-game the instances would have to be gone. so like everybodies special quest funnels you to the end-game where you meet up with everyone else. Then I could agree whole heartely that instances would be good because each alt you leveled could be completly different and the choices you made in your quest like changes your allignment or w/e.
I dont know if CoS is like this or not for end-game, I am just thinking how IMO instances would be acceptable to me.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I have been thinking more about the instances and what I look for in an MMO. I look for complete well thought out end game (content) and gameplay. I honestly dont care how I get to max level so I could live with and maybe actually like leveling alts with the system that I have read in CoS. However as for end-game the instances would have to be gone. so like everybodies special quest funnels you to the end-game where you meet up with everyone else. Then I could agree whole heartely that instances would be good because each alt you leveled could be completly different and the choices you made in your quest like changes your allignment or w/e. I dont know if CoS is like this or not for end-game, I am just thinking how IMO instances would be acceptable to me.
Well, firstly, there is no 'max level'. The skill levels are endless, you can level on endlessly. Of course, after awhile it will take a logn time to level abilities, but there is no cap; therefore there would be no end game.
But, a player's story never ends, you just keep questing. Everyone's personal story will keep going on, each one with a new, interesting quest to keep you entertained.
There are also 'uber abiltiies' for when you reach a high level for a skill...no information on that yet .
The instances NEVER go away though; you need them for crafting and questing.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I believe there is one crutial difference between CoS and other MMOs on the market: deadline. Most developers have a set deadline to push a game out for the publisher. It appears (to me, atleast) that the CoS team is taking their time to make sure this is the best product they can produce before they jump into the publishing rat race.
Looks good. Worthy of at least a try since its not a WoW clone or PvP twitch fest.
Really liked how they laid it all out in the Abilities section (indirectly) why classes are stupid. If you let people choose abilities and do it right, people can build the vanilla classes you see in other games but people with more intelligence and/or creativity can invent their own builds and enjoy them. Their study programs in the University sound like templates, which are the answer to people's complaints that they like the defined roles of classes. For all six of you who do, great, skill systems let you build vanilla class structures just fine. It just doesn't force everyone into your box you find so cozy and the rest of us find boring.
As for "flavor of the month" builds, well there are also unbalanced classes. People are still gonna bitch no matter what. That's a stupid counter-argument: always has been, always will be.
feral i agree with you it seems that every game that has attempted to do what CoS is doing they gave themselfs to little time.
of course CoS started with close to around 10 people and once they got people to know about it around 3-4 years later their team practicaly doubled and they are only around half way focusing on gameplay not graphics (though if you ask me i think MMO Magic is trying to rival halo 3 because they have pretty nice graphics already) so if it turns out not to work well back to the old drawing board if it does work then they have impacted the MMO world and set a new mold for games as well as make a lot of money but thats not the point the point is that if it does work out i will want the game Period.
you may say im obsessed or crazy but i prefer patiently challenged (me in 3 yrs)
first i know where you got your avatar better hope i dont throw you prinny squad.
that being said i totally agree with you about people complaining about everything and i hate it why cant people realize that if they dont like it here then they should leave i also agree about the ability tree i just hope they use some of mine.
BOOM and another one bites the dust BOOM and another one bites the dust BOOM and another one dies and another one dies and another one bites the dust BOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM
prinny squad i demote you to prinny, why you ask, its because i killed all but one of you but this is me darn prinny deity.
but i shall now join forces with you and to quote a friend of mine
"does it make sense to beat your allies before battle" laharl
I believe there is one crutial difference between CoS and other MMOs on the market: deadline. Most developers have a set deadline to push a game out for the publisher. It appears (to me, atleast) that the CoS team is taking their time to make sure this is the best product they can produce before they jump into the publishing rat race.
The only other software developer that I know of that does this is Blizzard.
Looks good. Worthy of at least a try since its not a WoW clone or PvP twitch fest. Really liked how they laid it all out in the Abilities section (indirectly) why classes are stupid. If you let people choose abilities and do it right, people can build the vanilla classes you see in other games but people with more intelligence and/or creativity can invent their own builds and enjoy them. Their study programs in the University sound like templates, which are the answer to people's complaints that they like the defined roles of classes. For all six of you who do, great, skill systems let you build vanilla class structures just fine. It just doesn't force everyone into your box you find so cozy and the rest of us find boring. As for "flavor of the month" builds, well there are also unbalanced classes. People are still gonna bitch no matter what. That's a stupid counter-argument: always has been, always will be.
I like the abilities/skill system as well. I kind of see this as a win-win situation, really. Those who are either new to gaming or prefer a structured class system will benefit from the uni and those who want to expand past the cliche class systems can begin inventing the character/class they've always dreamed of.
A final thought on builds and classes (or lack thereof): Atleast those tweak/nerf nuts can't blame all their woes on a flawed class design or the developers. It'll be their own flawed creation that will be at fault, not some uberized shadow dancer or over buffed paladin/cleric.
DDO which is class-based had a serious problem with bad builds. Anyone new to D&D could easily make a poor selection in stats, feats, and skills. Even worse, the pregen rogue stat/feats was lousy even for PnP D&D. Turbine eventually had to implement feat respec.
EVE is skill based and very effective. There is no "bad build" because if something isn't working for you, you learn some new skills.
Uber-Builds are geared towards the Uber-End-Game content. At this point, a character is maxed out and can no longer improve. This makes every point spent up to the end extremely important.
CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops. Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW.
My follow-on question for Jatar is the feasibility of completly altering the character's play style. For example: start with a front-line fighter type focused in Hero. After several months, drop the sword and shield in favor of some magic and blast away. Several months later, change focus again. Or would it be more beneficial to start a new character with a different style each time?
The objective in our design is to allow players to add to their character rather than start a new one. Since there are no actual restrictions on what you may learn, there is no reason not to keep what you have already achieved and just shift your focus if that is your desire. Example: You suddenly get a hankering to learn how to cast fire based attack spells. If you start a new character, you will lose what you have already learned in Hero attacks, but if you just start learning the fire abilities, you retain your expertise with weapons and get the fire magic just as quickly as if you had started a new character. There is no advantage to starting that new character.
Besides, in this world, having some diversity in your abilities is important anyway. With the diverse situations you will face, you may need to use magic in one encounter and brawn in another. One issue we had in this design is mud characters, where everyone took the same set of 'best' ability mixes. We came up with two solutions, one is to make sure that there are MANY great choices, and no one character can get them all short of playing for ten (real) years, and the other, well, we will talk about Uber Ability sets later when we release that information.
I should note that we allow alt characters, but players will not need to use them because they picked the wrong set of Abilities early on. Just start adding the ones you want now. Much of the game is designed behind the idea of staying with your character and changing it over time into what you want... and changing it again, and again. I hate having spent 4 months on a character only to realize I messed up and have to start the game over. No need for that in CoS, we designed for change, you are NEVER locked into one path.
On this same line of thinking, we don't like early Abilities you gained becoming useless later on. Even your lower level echelon Abilities are still useful later in the game. Think of them like hammers, early abilities are like a little tack hammer, and much later you may have worked the sams Ability up to a sledge hammer... but not all situations require a sledge hammer. Why waste the energy (literally) swinging a sledge hammer when a simple tap from your tack hammer will get the current job done? To this end we have made a system where it is easy to dial in the strength of an Ability simply by rolling your wheel on your mouse to the desired strength (echelon). Now when that monster you are fighting is about to keel over, you don't have to drop a mountain on him and drain all your remaining power, just pop him with a small boulder, that should flatten him nicely and save you some juice for the next beastie.
CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops. Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW.
Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.
CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own. How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.
Thanks for the info. A climatic ending of the game story sounds way cooler than the traditional "end game content" designed for max-level, minmaxed characters with uber gear. Wow, you defeated the boss after playing for 1 week straight. Since your character is maxed, you get nothing. 2 X-Uber items drop that are given randomly to 2 of the 40 players involved with a 100% chance that the item will be unusable by the character who receives it. Wasn't that fun?
Trying to develop the story based dynamic world architecture, I'm surprised you didn't wake up with nightmares of infinite loops, stack overflows, spawning millions of non-locking threads, M. C. Escher, dead-locks, or the effects of special relativity on characters questing at near the speed of light approaching the climax. I've pondered that question since the beginning of MMORPGs. But as I don't write game software (unless you guys pay really well and are located in Austin) with a dynamic world in mind, I have never tried to find a solution. I'm pretty excited to see what you have come up with. And I bet you're just dying to tell us just how freakin' awesome it is!
i am definatly looking forward to this game. The only other mmo that is in development mode that has my interest is SWTOR and that is because it is being done by bioware. I wan't personal story long quest that feel like you achieve something.
I shouldn't say only game that interest me plenty of mmos' interest my but only this and SWtor i feel will hold me to any long time gameplay. Reading that quest sample on the website made my mouth water for the game.
CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops. Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW.
Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.
CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own. How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.
you said, though you may continue your character into the next sequal story.
Will the game launch with several in place or just one?
If this game delivers what it promises, and actually works as they say it's going to, then I'd DEFINITELY play it. This would be the Holy Grail of MMOs, the best game ever. Just reading their preview information is really exciting, and I'd love to see it come to pass. If it works, it'll be genre-changing. If not, hopefully at least the attempt will help open the door for someone else to make a game like this happen down the road. But I'll be there to try it as soon as it's open for players, no doubt!
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops. Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW.
Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.
CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own. How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.
you said, though you may continue your character into the next sequal story.
Will the game launch with several in place or just one?
Will you be able to repeat them?
Can you run out of the Big Story?
I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure the story never ends. You just continue following your story until you stop playing the game (remember - your original story will take a very long time to complete). So, after you spend the time to complete your original story you will have a sequel, then after that you have another sequel, etc.
As for your first question, I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're asking how many stories will the game be launched with, then the answer would be a lot, since every character has their own story line that no one else can follow.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, my CoS knowledge is a little rusty.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I believe you two are talking about separate things, let me try to clarify:
In Citadel of Sorcery there is the Epic storyline and there is also the player's personal story. Personal stories continue indefinitely, but the Epic story has an eventual climactic ending.
The game will only launch with the one Epic story, though we will be hard at work on the Sequel story immediately. I wouldn't worry about this too much if I were you though, since other MMOs you have likely played launch with no ongoing story at all. Remember typical MMOs are the same every day, time never moves on, nor does any story.
Also… our epic story is… well, epic. That means it is a long journey that you won’t run out of quickly. We anticipate an average player taking over a year to experience all of the epic story fun. By then we should have a sequel story ready.
So what is the difference between your personal story and the Epic story? Think of the Epic story as the major events going on in the world, where your personal story is how your character moves through that world situation. If I was comparing this to, say, the current status of the United States, the Epic story would be something like the election of President Obama, the economy problems, etc. You have a personal life or your own that is going on during this time. Your life is what happens to you, the friends and enemies you make, what you personally get involved with and effect. You have a life right now, and Obama is president. Other people have a different life, but Obama is still president for them as well. Of course, in CoS, your character’s personal story is going to eventually get involved with the movers and shakers of the world. That is not quite so likely in the case of your real life,
When you have completed the Epic Story of CoS, you can still continue to play. Eventually (when you choose, or when it’s available) you’ll want to move on into the Sequel Story. Alternately, you can start a new character and although the Epic story would be the same, the new character's journey through the world will likely be quite different. When playing CoS you don’t go through the exact same quests as any other player.
The thing is, I just don’t know of a down side to this story system, it gives you FAR more story than any other MMO you have likely played. It also gives you far more variance to the game from what other players experience. When you complete the Epic Story, you can continue to play, start over, or play the Sequel story when it comes out.
Alternately, you can play other typical MMOs and experience NO ongoing story and repeat the same day over and over doing the exact same things that other players did, with no effect on the world what-so-ever. It’s your choice. I plan to have a lot of fun creating my own story while moving through the Epic storyline of CoS.
I've found this game when I was very bored with MMORPG's I'm playing, to the extent where I downloaded 7 MMO's in 3 days and spent a big amount of money during the last year trying to find something that's not a copy of everything else. It was a website that listed a number of games including those still in development. After I exhausted all the categories literally opening every single game website they had to offer in search for something different I decided to check what to expect from games soon to come and stumbled upon this!
I was amazed and surprised that the promises hold most of what I usually daydream about in an online role playing game. I have read (and re-read) each and every section of this game's website, I even went mental opening the dev's log every 10 minutes to see if there is another update acting like a kid waiting for her christmas present (and I'm 28).
The sample quest on the website got me involved and I felt like I was a part of that story even though I wasn't directly. When I saw the news dated back to 2005 I was a bit concerned that it could be an abandoned project trying to come back to life, but then when I followed the dev log from start to end I saw there was ongoing serious work and no considerable time cuts to endicate devs are giving up, they even report problems they are facing as the project continues to evolve while tweaking and designing their own set of game creation tools. Also noticed available job positions and team growing, and focusing on the right things at the right time instead of building the roof before the foundation is solid or getting lost in unimportant - at this point - details. Add to that not going to a publisher yet which allows fine-tuning of the project before it's rushed into a deadline.
In short I have seen a group of dedicated and highly organized people doing things right while having fun at the same time (the holiday event) instead of some bored devs just wanting to get by and get it done. That means they are worthy of my trust.
Now that said, a few things remain unclear to me and a few remarks :
If you can take part in someone else's quest, how is it going to affect your personal story? Specially if you have a NPC as an enemy but that person has them as a friend? Will the NPC refuse to help the group because you are in it? Or will you be like "disguised" and NPC doesn't notice you but remain your enemy? Or will they become friendlier after you have helped them through this group quest?
Same as above, if NPC's do die (which I think might present a whole lot of logical errors in group questing), will you be banned from participating in a quest that involves that NPC being alive?
If the world is as large as stated won't it be "burren" and lonely during regular hunts with players scattered all over the globe?
Is grouping up for regular hunts (not quests) possible?
If the monsters don't "pop" right back does that mean you would have to run far distances to find them after other players have killed every single monster in that area?
If you are not likely to find the same enemy in the same area how would you know where to hunt and find enemies that suit your current abilities?
It has been stated that the publisher will decide how this game gets published, which worries me a bit because if the publisher decides with selling it as a hard copy only (due to the large size) chances are it's not going to be available in my country and I'm not going to be able to play it unless it's also available through direct download online purchase. And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.
Originally posted by amusedmonkey And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.
But you just asked a bunch of questions....
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
Comments
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I have been thinking more about the instances and what I look for in an MMO. I look for complete well thought out end game (content) and gameplay. I honestly dont care how I get to max level so I could live with and maybe actually like leveling alts with the system that I have read in CoS. However as for end-game the instances would have to be gone. so like everybodies special quest funnels you to the end-game where you meet up with everyone else. Then I could agree whole heartely that instances would be good because each alt you leveled could be completly different and the choices you made in your quest like changes your allignment or w/e.
I dont know if CoS is like this or not for end-game, I am just thinking how IMO instances would be acceptable to me.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well, firstly, there is no 'max level'. The skill levels are endless, you can level on endlessly. Of course, after awhile it will take a logn time to level abilities, but there is no cap; therefore there would be no end game.
But, a player's story never ends, you just keep questing. Everyone's personal story will keep going on, each one with a new, interesting quest to keep you entertained.
There are also 'uber abiltiies' for when you reach a high level for a skill...no information on that yet
.
The instances NEVER go away though; you need them for crafting and questing.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I believe there is one crutial difference between CoS and other MMOs on the market: deadline. Most developers have a set deadline to push a game out for the publisher. It appears (to me, atleast) that the CoS team is taking their time to make sure this is the best product they can produce before they jump into the publishing rat race.
Looks good. Worthy of at least a try since its not a WoW clone or PvP twitch fest.
Really liked how they laid it all out in the Abilities section (indirectly) why classes are stupid. If you let people choose abilities and do it right, people can build the vanilla classes you see in other games but people with more intelligence and/or creativity can invent their own builds and enjoy them. Their study programs in the University sound like templates, which are the answer to people's complaints that they like the defined roles of classes. For all six of you who do, great, skill systems let you build vanilla class structures just fine. It just doesn't force everyone into your box you find so cozy and the rest of us find boring.
As for "flavor of the month" builds, well there are also unbalanced classes. People are still gonna bitch no matter what. That's a stupid counter-argument: always has been, always will be.
feral i agree with you it seems that every game that has attempted to do what CoS is doing they gave themselfs to little time.
of course CoS started with close to around 10 people and once they got people to know about it around 3-4 years later their team practicaly doubled and they are only around half way focusing on gameplay not graphics (though if you ask me i think MMO Magic is trying to rival halo 3 because they have pretty nice graphics already) so if it turns out not to work well back to the old drawing board if it does work then they have impacted the MMO world and set a new mold for games as well as make a lot of money but thats not the point the point is that if it does work out i will want the game Period.
you may say im obsessed
or crazy 
but i prefer patiently challenged (
me in 3 yrs)
first i know where you got your avatar better hope i dont throw you prinny squad.
that being said i totally agree with you about people complaining about everything and i hate it why cant people realize that if they dont like it here then they should leave
i also agree about the ability tree i just hope they use some of mine.
Dooooood! You're killing us off!? Everybody, run!!
BOOM and another one bites the dust BOOM and another one bites the dust BOOM and another one dies and another one dies and another one bites the dust BOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM
prinny squad i demote you to prinny, why you ask, its because i killed all but one of you but this is me
darn prinny deity.
but i shall now join forces with you and to quote a friend of mine
"does it make sense to beat your allies before battle" laharl
The only other software developer that I know of that does this is Blizzard.
Aye, and I have a friend in Blizzard. His thoughts on developing are basically this: If I wouldn't play it, why should I expect you to?
I like the abilities/skill system as well. I kind of see this as a win-win situation, really. Those who are either new to gaming or prefer a structured class system will benefit from the uni and those who want to expand past the cliche class systems can begin inventing the character/class they've always dreamed of.
A final thought on builds and classes (or lack thereof): Atleast those tweak/nerf nuts can't blame all their woes on a flawed class design or the developers. It'll be their own flawed creation that will be at fault, not some uberized shadow dancer or over buffed paladin/cleric.
DDO which is class-based had a serious problem with bad builds. Anyone new to D&D could easily make a poor selection in stats, feats, and skills. Even worse, the pregen rogue stat/feats was lousy even for PnP D&D. Turbine eventually had to implement feat respec.
EVE is skill based and very effective. There is no "bad build" because if something isn't working for you, you learn some new skills.
Uber-Builds are geared towards the Uber-End-Game content. At this point, a character is maxed out and can no longer improve. This makes every point spent up to the end extremely important.
CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops. Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW.
My follow-on question for Jatar is the feasibility of completly altering the character's play style. For example: start with a front-line fighter type focused in Hero. After several months, drop the sword and shield in favor of some magic and blast away. Several months later, change focus again. Or would it be more beneficial to start a new character with a different style each time?
The objective in our design is to allow players to add to their character rather than start a new one. Since there are no actual restrictions on what you may learn, there is no reason not to keep what you have already achieved and just shift your focus if that is your desire. Example: You suddenly get a hankering to learn how to cast fire based attack spells. If you start a new character, you will lose what you have already learned in Hero attacks, but if you just start learning the fire abilities, you retain your expertise with weapons and get the fire magic just as quickly as if you had started a new character. There is no advantage to starting that new character.
Besides, in this world, having some diversity in your abilities is important anyway. With the diverse situations you will face, you may need to use magic in one encounter and brawn in another. One issue we had in this design is mud characters, where everyone took the same set of 'best' ability mixes. We came up with two solutions, one is to make sure that there are MANY great choices, and no one character can get them all short of playing for ten (real) years, and the other, well, we will talk about Uber Ability sets later when we release that information.
I should note that we allow alt characters, but players will not need to use them because they picked the wrong set of Abilities early on. Just start adding the ones you want now. Much of the game is designed behind the idea of staying with your character and changing it over time into what you want... and changing it again, and again. I hate having spent 4 months on a character only to realize I messed up and have to start the game over. No need for that in CoS, we designed for change, you are NEVER locked into one path.
On this same line of thinking, we don't like early Abilities you gained becoming useless later on. Even your lower level echelon Abilities are still useful later in the game. Think of them like hammers, early abilities are like a little tack hammer, and much later you may have worked the sams Ability up to a sledge hammer... but not all situations require a sledge hammer. Why waste the energy (literally) swinging a sledge hammer when a simple tap from your tack hammer will get the current job done? To this end we have made a system where it is easy to dial in the strength of an Ability simply by rolling your wheel on your mouse to the desired strength (echelon). Now when that monster you are fighting is about to keel over, you don't have to drop a mountain on him and drain all your remaining power, just pop him with a small boulder, that should flatten him nicely and save you some juice for the next beastie.
Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.
CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own. How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.
Thanks for the info. A climatic ending of the game story sounds way cooler than the traditional "end game content" designed for max-level, minmaxed characters with uber gear. Wow, you defeated the boss after playing for 1 week straight. Since your character is maxed, you get nothing. 2 X-Uber items drop that are given randomly to 2 of the 40 players involved with a 100% chance that the item will be unusable by the character who receives it. Wasn't that fun?
Trying to develop the story based dynamic world architecture, I'm surprised you didn't wake up with nightmares of infinite loops, stack overflows, spawning millions of non-locking threads, M. C. Escher, dead-locks, or the effects of special relativity on characters questing at near the speed of light approaching the climax. I've pondered that question since the beginning of MMORPGs. But as I don't write game software (unless you guys pay really well and are located in Austin) with a dynamic world in mind, I have never tried to find a solution. I'm pretty excited to see what you have come up with. And I bet you're just dying to tell us just how freakin' awesome it is!
i am definatly looking forward to this game. The only other mmo that is in development mode that has my interest is SWTOR and that is because it is being done by bioware. I wan't personal story long quest that feel like you achieve something.
I shouldn't say only game that interest me plenty of mmos' interest my but only this and SWtor i feel will hold me to any long time gameplay. Reading that quest sample on the website made my mouth water for the game.
If the game delivers I will be a happy person.
Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.
CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own. How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.
you said, though you may continue your character into the next sequal story.
Will the game launch with several in place or just one?
Will you be able to repeat them?
Can you run out of the Big Story?
If this game delivers what it promises, and actually works as they say it's going to, then I'd DEFINITELY play it. This would be the Holy Grail of MMOs, the best game ever. Just reading their preview information is really exciting, and I'd love to see it come to pass. If it works, it'll be genre-changing. If not, hopefully at least the attempt will help open the door for someone else to make a game like this happen down the road. But I'll be there to try it as soon as it's open for players, no doubt!
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.
CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own. How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.
you said, though you may continue your character into the next sequal story.
Will the game launch with several in place or just one?
Will you be able to repeat them?
Can you run out of the Big Story?
I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure the story never ends. You just continue following your story until you stop playing the game (remember - your original story will take a very long time to complete). So, after you spend the time to complete your original story you will have a sequel, then after that you have another sequel, etc.
As for your first question, I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're asking how many stories will the game be launched with, then the answer would be a lot, since every character has their own story line that no one else can follow.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, my CoS knowledge is a little rusty.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I believe you two are talking about separate things, let me try to clarify:
In Citadel of Sorcery there is the Epic storyline and there is also the player's personal story. Personal stories continue indefinitely, but the Epic story has an eventual climactic ending.
The game will only launch with the one Epic story, though we will be hard at work on the Sequel story immediately. I wouldn't worry about this too much if I were you though, since other MMOs you have likely played launch with no ongoing story at all. Remember typical MMOs are the same every day, time never moves on, nor does any story.
Also… our epic story is… well, epic. That means it is a long journey that you won’t run out of quickly. We anticipate an average player taking over a year to experience all of the epic story fun. By then we should have a sequel story ready.
So what is the difference between your personal story and the Epic story? Think of the Epic story as the major events going on in the world, where your personal story is how your character moves through that world situation. If I was comparing this to, say, the current status of the United States, the Epic story would be something like the election of President Obama, the economy problems, etc. You have a personal life or your own that is going on during this time. Your life is what happens to you, the friends and enemies you make, what you personally get involved with and effect. You have a life right now, and Obama is president. Other people have a different life, but Obama is still president for them as well. Of course, in CoS, your character’s personal story is going to eventually get involved with the movers and shakers of the world. That is not quite so likely in the case of your real life,
When you have completed the Epic Story of CoS, you can still continue to play. Eventually (when you choose, or when it’s available) you’ll want to move on into the Sequel Story. Alternately, you can start a new character and although the Epic story would be the same, the new character's journey through the world will likely be quite different. When playing CoS you don’t go through the exact same quests as any other player.
The thing is, I just don’t know of a down side to this story system, it gives you FAR more story than any other MMO you have likely played. It also gives you far more variance to the game from what other players experience. When you complete the Epic Story, you can continue to play, start over, or play the Sequel story when it comes out.
Alternately, you can play other typical MMOs and experience NO ongoing story and repeat the same day over and over doing the exact same things that other players did, with no effect on the world what-so-ever. It’s your choice. I plan to have a lot of fun creating my own story while moving through the Epic storyline of CoS.
I've found this game when I was very bored with MMORPG's I'm playing, to the extent where I downloaded 7 MMO's in 3 days and spent a big amount of money during the last year trying to find something that's not a copy of everything else. It was a website that listed a number of games including those still in development. After I exhausted all the categories literally opening every single game website they had to offer in search for something different I decided to check what to expect from games soon to come and stumbled upon this!
I was amazed and surprised that the promises hold most of what I usually daydream about in an online role playing game. I have read (and re-read) each and every section of this game's website, I even went mental opening the dev's log every 10 minutes to see if there is another update acting like a kid waiting for her christmas present (and I'm 28).
The sample quest on the website got me involved and I felt like I was a part of that story even though I wasn't directly. When I saw the news dated back to 2005 I was a bit concerned that it could be an abandoned project trying to come back to life, but then when I followed the dev log from start to end I saw there was ongoing serious work and no considerable time cuts to endicate devs are giving up, they even report problems they are facing as the project continues to evolve while tweaking and designing their own set of game creation tools. Also noticed available job positions and team growing, and focusing on the right things at the right time instead of building the roof before the foundation is solid or getting lost in unimportant - at this point - details. Add to that not going to a publisher yet which allows fine-tuning of the project before it's rushed into a deadline.
In short I have seen a group of dedicated and highly organized people doing things right while having fun at the same time (the holiday event) instead of some bored devs just wanting to get by and get it done. That means they are worthy of my trust.
Now that said, a few things remain unclear to me and a few remarks :
If you can take part in someone else's quest, how is it going to affect your personal story? Specially if you have a NPC as an enemy but that person has them as a friend? Will the NPC refuse to help the group because you are in it? Or will you be like "disguised" and NPC doesn't notice you but remain your enemy? Or will they become friendlier after you have helped them through this group quest?
Same as above, if NPC's do die (which I think might present a whole lot of logical errors in group questing), will you be banned from participating in a quest that involves that NPC being alive?
If the world is as large as stated won't it be "burren" and lonely during regular hunts with players scattered all over the globe?
Is grouping up for regular hunts (not quests) possible?
If the monsters don't "pop" right back does that mean you would have to run far distances to find them after other players have killed every single monster in that area?
If you are not likely to find the same enemy in the same area how would you know where to hunt and find enemies that suit your current abilities?
It has been stated that the publisher will decide how this game gets published, which worries me a bit because if the publisher decides with selling it as a hard copy only (due to the large size) chances are it's not going to be available in my country and I'm not going to be able to play it unless it's also available through direct download online purchase. And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.
But you just asked a bunch of questions....
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
The game and concept looks innovative and a refreshing change
I'll be following it's progress closely
I'll
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
Do you see me pulling out my money yet?