Whether anyone wants to agree or not, the OP is dead on right. I too am on an MMO hiatus, going on my 5th or 6th month now.
These games have not been evolving, although we are seeing some interesting things coming out of the small dev houses now. Those of us who have been around long enough know exactly where this genre was headed before the likes of WoW came along and attracted the masses, feel cheated by the current gaming experience. These worlds are not coming alive like we were promised. When was the last time you played an MMO that surprised you with the details?
Let me be clear here, while I hope I never, ever play a handholding game like WoW again, I did play a hunter through to 70 before I quit, and I had a fun time getting there. After 70, the game offered nothing for me. I'm not blaming WoW for the changes to the industry, but I do blame all the games that came out since, and copied WoW's gameplay model. These companies offer a little superficial innovation over WoW, but that's about it. Many people who play one of these clones quickly get bored and leave. It has nothing to do with being a jaded MMO player, because if true innovation was happening in the genre, it would be hard to become jaded.
I expect more from these games. The current crop is nothing much more than a bunch of treadmills designed to keep you paying. Most of these devs have zero interest in how much fun you are having, or how much adventure you are experiencing. It's all about getting you hooked in and paying the subs. MMO's of today seem to be tapping into that addictive quality of Las Vegas electronic gambling machines who's job is to ruthlessly lead you on just enough to keep your playing until your money is gone. They don't care if you have fun, they just want to hook you, and they have figured how.
Now that I have taken a nice long break which probably won't end until Fallen Earth comes out, I have realized that the only saving grace for this genre will be small, niche games. We, as gamers, should be supporting the small dev houses and games such as Darkfall, Earthrise, EVE, etc. They may be our only hope for real MMO gaming.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
As a long time lurker @ MMORPG, I have never felt a more compelling reason to post until now. Gaming in general (especially the MMO's) has certainly taken a turn for the worst over the last few years.
We often read about games with visionary concepts that capture our attention, but due to corporate deadlines and over eager publishers looking to force this crap out the door 9 times out of 10 these features never enter the game and it becuase more of the same tripe we have been playing only with watered down vanilla features. Think about when you read about a game that really got you excited... Whether it was a sequel to a game you already knew and loved or something fresh... Now think of how you felt after it actually released...
WOW is a machine... and it offers it's players a slow morphine drip that they keep going back for... I used to be an avid WOW player as I am sure a lot of the people here are/were but after a while the game just lost it for me... all challenges were gone and the game was super EZ mode and Safe mode.
Korea/China keeps vomiting out all this F2P crap that has caused all sorts of havoc on the marketplace.... they are the silent killer... I mean the games just suck... I am sorry to hurt your feelings if you like this crap but come on now... (and yes I played Runes of Magic which is probably the least sucky of the bunch) I would rahter pay $100/ month for a good game... a REALLY good game than this free 2 play awfulness. People see a F2P game and see very often pretty graphics but the games is like an M&M with out the chocolately center... just a hollow empty shell with harly any content yet players hold every other game up to the graphical standard etc which should be the least important thing.
What I have seen happening is a revolution of sorts... I think a lot of people have gotten so sick of these supposed mainstream AAA failures, and companies have pulled back the reigns on the inherent risk of spending millions of dollars just to suck... It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF... NOW you start seeing some new game houses forming and the resurgance of indy developers that can now self distribute and publish digitally, long lost are the days where you actually go into a gamestop (have you been in one recently and seen the PC game section?) to buy PC games... I have to appluad companies like Adventurine for creating Darkfall and Quest Online for Alganon (Alganon has a great story in itself) and several of the other companies that are starting to think outside the box and cherry pick the best of features of the mainstream games and make them better.
Take a game like Alganon... This is being head up by David Allen who if the name is not familiar was the original devloper of Horizons... David was basically kicked out of Horizons because he wanted to delay the game due to it not being the vision of what he imagined... If you go even further back and look at David's games he made two fantiaticly intense singleplayer and lan games called Mordor: depths of dejenol and Demise. Cheezy graphics but 110% immersive. This is what I would expect of his latest title Alganon... I just hope to not be disappointed.
I hope to see games, I mean real gamers here, show support for the resurgance of indy games and developers out there and while the graphics may not be that of a AAA game it's it the immersion that we all seek? Where we actually give a damn about the characters we play and not just "color by numbers"
The next wave should certainly be an interesting one... Failures like Age of Conan (failures by the expectations of the developers) and Warhammer (which i currently dabble in) and Tabula Rasa are EXACTLY what this industry needed! The games that we see being developed now are going to need to re-evaluate how they launch and the content they have at launch... They can no longer plan "launch promised" features in a 6 month development cycle just to bang it out the door... The modern voracious gamer will chew through the content in weeks if not days only to find their delicate ADHD minds going back to the comfort of the slow morphine drip that is WOW once again...
I'll make this short... Some of you say "They only want our money and they don't have an intrest in our entertainment" Well, game is bussines and they try to make it profitable. On the other hand, if you pay a sub they are convinced that you are having fun... And why they should be changing something? If you dont enjoy a game why the hell you should pay for it?
I'll make this short... Some of you say "They only want our money and they don't have an intrest in our entertainment" Well, game is bussines and they try to make it profitable. On the other hand, if you pay a sub they are convinced that you are having fun... And why they should be changing something? If you dont enjoy a game why the hell you should pay for it?
The difference is seen in the details and the quality of the gaming experience. The large game dev houses are cranking out games with the same lack of care that the large music publishers are cranking out crappy music. We all realize here that ONE of the goals should be making money, since this is a business. However, it should not be the ONLY goal, forsaking quality, customer satisfaction. and innovation. What ever happened to wanting to build a better product or service?
Yes, there are idiots out there who will buy anything, but there are also people like me who will not pay these game companies one penny for the crap being sold these days. That means there is room for smaller, nich mmos to make money and grow a successful and hardcore subscriber base in the same way EVE has. Eve's subscriber numbers are nothing in the big scheme of business, but ask the people at CCP if they are making money while turning out a super-high quality product. Eve isn't my kind of game, but I applaud them for what they have done, and I can only hope other small dev houses follow suit.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I agree with the OP. I am only 26 but I started MMO gaming back in EQ in 1999. I enjoyed my time in EQ1 and since then have been game hopping trying to find another game that I enjoy like I did EQ. I am sick of hearing that EQ forced you to group, that simply is not true, sure grouping was a major part of the game but people could solo just fine. Sure some classes were better at soloing then others but so what? I am sick of doing pointless quests, I am done with quest grinding games. I tried WAR and I quit playing over a month ago, got sick of questings so I decided to level only on PvP but it is nothing but a zerg fest and that got boring. Now I don't play any MMOs. I have hope for a few MMo games but not holding my breath. I just want a developer to make a game for us old school gamers that want to feel apart of the world again. That want to feel they earned what they got. I want a game that makes me use my brain again. These new games hold your hand from start to finish, they never make you think.
I think the main problem here is that we have clashing concepts now. MMO's were originally created for those DnD gamers who didn't want to use pencil and paper anymore. They were created for a very small portion of the population, which is why they were not very popular back in the day. I myself played EQ and SWG religiously, but then life came along. I went to college, I got a degree, I got a job and more importantly I am getting a family. These games were HUGE time sinks that the casual gamer can not dedicate time to and have any fun. I loved these games, but I just can't dedicate time to them anymore. So what we have is what the hardcore gamers want and what the casual gamers want. It is extremely difficult to find a middle ground between the two. Many casual gamers are OK with not being the best at the game because you can't play 8+ hours a day, but none of us like having absolutely no chance vs. such a person b/c he's geared out. I think that's what attracts me to games like Counter-Strike and L4D. Skill based games where the only benefit to playing the game more is that you have a better grasp on strategies. I have always wanted a game that is more life like in combat in that if you shoot someone with an arrow through the eye, then no amount of equipment would keep you from dying. I just don't think we are at a place technologically to be able to come to this middle ground.
I'll make this short... Some of you say "They only want our money and they don't have an intrest in our entertainment" Well, game is bussines and they try to make it profitable. On the other hand, if you pay a sub they are convinced that you are having fun... And why they should be changing something? If you dont enjoy a game why the hell you should pay for it?
...because apparently everyone is brainwashed and pays to play games that they don't like, while brilliant gems don't get played for some strange reason. People spend month after month paying a fee to play bad games. Its all because of an advertisment or a friend forcing them to play. People don't eat food they hate. They dont' read books multiple times they hate. They don't go to movies OVER and OVER again that they hate. But they plays MMOs they hate. They play MMOs that really suck and ignore MMOs that are really great. Its always been that way=)
I haven't been playing MMO's for too long ( I think my first was CoH in 2004) but I did play MUD's and D&D when I was younger.
Dave Arneson (D&D co-creator) recently died and he was quoted as saying "Dice and maps and figures and complicated rule books are a crutch. The game doesn't need them — but the market does", which I think kind of echoes some of the sentiment of the OP.
I've left WoW and begun playing EvE Online and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. After reading the OP's comments I think the reason I'm enjoying it is because, to a certain extent, it has remained a niche game and thus is immune to the jaws of the marketing monster.
I'm not a economics or business whiz but what I do know is that for me, in the end, WoW began to feel like hanging around in the arcade with a bunch of kids, playing the same level over and over again trying to beat the high score - instead of being immersed in a lush and creative game world like many of the table-top RPG's of old.
Sure, OP can say thats because no one else is there, but we know that's not true. You can still play EQ 1 and find many other folks playing, so OP could go back if he wanted to. But he doesn't want to. He wants a new game built after the old model, (so do I ) but realistically, not likely to happen, nor would many players accept it if it did. (much criticism was directed at VG because they incorportated old school concepts like death penalties, corpse runs and long travel times) Face it, most of us who've been playing these games have come to appreciate some of the modern conveniences, and we're not likely to go back.
Actually, Mortal online are aiming to make a new game after the old model, if it will work or not is anybodys guess. It is hard to go back to older times.
But Im not happy where MMOs are going either, it feels like very little have happened for the last 5 or even 10 years. The genre must reinvent itself again to continue to be fun.
My hopes are to CCP/Whitewolf and Bioware right now. The mix of an experienced pen and paper company and a experienced MMO company should inject some fresh blood. As for Bioware, they have always done their own thing and are not likely to copy from that Wow/EQ rosetta stone.
One thing is certain, we don't neeed another 10 years of games close to EQ (and Meridian 59 for that matter, why do everyone always forget about it? I played it). The genre feels dryer now than FPS games just before Half-life showed up and changed things.
Back then it was all about freedom. I could go to these places and risk death and the reward was exploration. I remember how emmersive it was to be in the basement of unrest and hearing the footsteps of the ghouls on the floor above. I remember the being charmed in TOFS and running around training the mobs and feeling something from the experience. I for one thought the Pok books were really, really cool. I was a relative latecomer to EQ1 but having those books where I could "fly" up to EQ's version of Olympus and then re-decend back down to material planes.....and The Grey....what a place. Despite the name I rarely did quests in EQ and UO had none back in the day. Task driven content is something new and something many of you seem to enjoy. I for one hate being dragged by the nose around the world.
This would be one of my chief complaints about the (major Western) MMORPG releases of the last several years-- I am not interested in going through the game on a conveyor belt of questing. I don't mind questing for particular items, but I want to choose whether I participate or even NOTICE the official storyline. I am more interested in making my own stories than in experiencing a canned story.
I was only vaguely aware of EQ having any kind of storyline until PoP, I think. Before that, there was lore (Dwarves hate dark elves, the combine built all these strange spires, and, oh, look at this new place we discovered-- It's Kunark/Velious/the moon!) that you could use or ignore. There was and is so much content that is just there to pick and choose from that there were times that the most difficult part of your gaming day would be deciding what to do. There were no "must do" quests, and it was perfectly possible to play through to the end game without really doing very many (or maybe any) quests at all.
Also, because faction really mattered, it mattered what class and race you picked. Your early game experience was not necessarily the same if you chose a gnome wizard or a dark elf shadow knight-- in many games now, including (The New) EQ, you're going to do exactly the same things at exactly the same levels, no matter what you choose to play. You might do something different for 5 or 10 levels, but you get on that conveyor belt sooner or later, along with everyone else your level. I'm not a fan of that.
In any case, I'd like to wish the OP (Rekindle) good luck in the future, with or without MMOs.
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
If the new SE MMO caves into the WoW'ish style Ill be throwing in the towel as well. But for the moment I still have a few rounds left in me. Otherwise I could always learn Japanese and play the good MMO's that have no wow infleuence.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I'm in my 40s and started with EverQuest in 1999 like a bunch of folks. I've played a whole raft of different MMOs, tried many more and have been away from the genre for a year or so. My reason for not playing these days is that the games haven't changed.
Our first MMO brought so much novelty into our gaming. So many new experiences, from creating our first character to interacting with our first NPC to moving around in our first zone, our first kill, our first level, death, corpse run, group, quest, etc, etc, etc.
But we've done all those things. They are commonplace gaming experiences. Repackaging them in a different fiction or upgraded graphics doesn't change the fundamental experience. Getting a quest to kill NPCs to get a quest item to return to the quest-giver is the same no matter how you dress it up.
MMOs need to produce fundamentally new types of experiences for players. When that is done, players will feel that the games are a novel experience again, harkening back to the first one or two that we played.
It may not take ray traced graphics, physics simulations or live events. It may be a problem of figuring out how to get players to interact more intimately. For example, many people don't like to use voice because it's an intimate thing to do and strangers are listening. If a game solved the problem of finding like-minded players, perhaps MMO gaming would find its second wind.
Sadly i have to agree with the OP, not so much on the WOW rant stuff just MMO's in general.
I find myself hardly logging in anymore to any of them i play, same ol, same ol for me....
But i do have to ask myself, maybe i'm the problem, not the game or the genre....maybe i'm just not a gamer anymore =(
I can't even bring myself to play single player games...havn't touched my magic the gathering cards in over a year...i sit here and read forums mostly now...-sigh-
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
At least year (s) before we had something to hope for (no mater how ultimately pointles that was) - now there is nothing.
The few still in development (and now there are really only few left) ...well - a birdie told me : "Dont expect much"
Actually If you were disapointed with 2008 bunch of MMOs. You better sign of now
The only whatsoever quality MMO in future will be SW-TOR. But it will be just another run of the mill DIKU based singleplayer online game. And that wont be released before 2011 anyway
So whats there to hope for?
Some secret project that will be released in 2-4 years from now?
I'll make this short... Some of you say "They only want our money and they don't have an intrest in our entertainment" Well, game is bussines and they try to make it profitable. On the other hand, if you pay a sub they are convinced that you are having fun... And why they should be changing something? If you dont enjoy a game why the hell you should pay for it?
...because apparently everyone is brainwashed and pays to play games that they don't like, while brilliant gems don't get played for some strange reason. People spend month after month paying a fee to play bad games. Its all because of an advertisment or a friend forcing them to play. People don't eat food they hate. They dont' read books multiple times they hate. They don't go to movies OVER and OVER again that they hate. But they plays MMOs they hate. They play MMOs that really suck and ignore MMOs that are really great. Its always been that way=)
There are different types of consumers out there who demand different levels of quality in their products and services. 'The masses' may think WoW is an a incredible breakthrough in online gaming, but many of us here disagree to say the least. Enough of us that there are successful niche markets out there that will continue to grow as the WoW crowd loses players to boredom. I'm seeing more and more posts here from people who's first MMO was WoW, and they are already tired of WoW and the clones. The gaming style WoW offers is inherently shallow, and once people step off the treadmill, they have a hard time getting back on, even if it takes years to get there for some. Niche markets will continue to grow as more people become tired of the mainstream MMO formula being abused now.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Let's face it, these games are not social any more. The only socializing going on is usually just a guild on a vent server... or even worse, the vent server within a guild is broken up into clique groups of only a few people in different channels who always hang out together and ignore their rest of the guild and the people on the server.This disease infected all of the guilds I have joined in recent years.
This is one of the main reasons I miss the community of Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies. Say what you want about the game, but I haven't seen a community which felt so alive or intertwined in a game since.
My very first day in SWG, I popped into a Starport on one of the servers, and was met by a player who took it upon himself to be a tour guide for noobs. He gave me some money, some essential items, and took me on my first hunt. I came to realize over the months after this first experience that this kind of interactivity was commonplace in SWG across all the different aspects of the gameplay. Noobs were welcomed and encouraged to join in even with the most experienced players or groups. The chat happened in the chat bubbles in-game, not on vent or even really in the chat box.
I'm also one of those people who thinks voice chat has been a bad thing for MMO's. It's hard to pretend/rp you are a bad ass hunter/explorer while you are talking to some 14 year old kid giving you the play by play of a cartoon he's watching.
The lack of rich non-combat classes and activities is another reason these games are not social. These days everyone is just questing as fast as they can to get to level cap, then most of them just reroll because they figured out there was nothing to do unless they had 8 hours per day to dedicate to raiding. These games have lost the attitude of "The journey IS the destination".
This is what I miss in these games. I am not some jaded MMO player. I just expect the games to foster an interactive community. People can still lone wolf if they want, but the game shouldn't really encourage it if you ask me.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
At least year (s) before we had something to hope for (no mater how ultimately pointles that was) - now there is nothing. The few still in development (and now there are really only few left) ...well - a birdie told me : "Dont expect much" Actually If you were disapointed with 2008 bunch of MMOs. You better sign of now
The only whatsoever quality MMO in future will be SW-TOR. But it will be just another run of the mill DIKU based singleplayer online game. And that wont be released before 2011 anyway
So whats there to hope for? Some secret project that will be released in 2-4 years from now? We better find another hobby until than....
It depends on what you are looking for. There are some "niche" games coming out this year and next year that break the current wow-clone mould. Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online, The Secret World, to name a few. I don't have a lot of interest in playing Darkfall, but I have been paying attention to what people are saying about it, and it sounds like they are bringing back some old magic by not having the game hand-hold your entire gaming experience from level 1 to cap. The ability to make your character your own instead of being stuffed into a handful of boring archtype classes soundws fantastic as well.
I'm in the midst of a long break from MMO's (and gaming in general) so that when something completely different releases such as one of the games I listed above, I can experience it with fresh eyes.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
im kind of at a crossroads myself. i keep game jumping just about every other day trying to find something to keep me interested and i cant. LOTRO was my main game but i find myself hardly logging in to that as well. seems im mostly on here reading posts and reading forums about new hardware. i dont know if its just me or its the games but i have a feeling i may hang it up as well until SWTOR comes out.
It's a shame so many people are in denial about WoW being the turning point related to the state of the genre. Get a clue people! It had a huge effect with or without your agreement.
im kind of at a crossroads myself. i keep game jumping just about every other day trying to find something to keep me interested and i cant. LOTRO was my main game but i find myself hardly logging in to that as well. seems im mostly on here reading posts and reading forums about new hardware. i dont know if its just me or its the games but i have a feeling i may hang it up as well until SWTOR comes out.
I tried lotro twice, and it really is a great game, as long as you aren't already sick of WoW clones. Had I not played WoW through to 70 and became bored to death, I might have had a better time in lotro. I don't want to discourage people from trying it though, unless the thought of another quest theme park game makes your brain bleed. If you are into that stuff, I can't think of a more polished game out there.
I'm surprised you are expecting something new out of SWTOR though. Sounds like more of the same WoW-clone themepark crap but with a Star Wars skin slapped on. I haven't heard a bit of news about that game that makes it sounds unique. The fact that they are pushing this "more quests than any other game" or "deeper story" garbage as features tells me I should just stay 'far, far away' from it.
God, and look what they did to the Star Trek MMO.... what a joke that is turning out to be. Anyone taking bets on how fast it tanks after launch?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Comments
Whether anyone wants to agree or not, the OP is dead on right. I too am on an MMO hiatus, going on my 5th or 6th month now.
These games have not been evolving, although we are seeing some interesting things coming out of the small dev houses now. Those of us who have been around long enough know exactly where this genre was headed before the likes of WoW came along and attracted the masses, feel cheated by the current gaming experience. These worlds are not coming alive like we were promised. When was the last time you played an MMO that surprised you with the details?
Let me be clear here, while I hope I never, ever play a handholding game like WoW again, I did play a hunter through to 70 before I quit, and I had a fun time getting there. After 70, the game offered nothing for me. I'm not blaming WoW for the changes to the industry, but I do blame all the games that came out since, and copied WoW's gameplay model. These companies offer a little superficial innovation over WoW, but that's about it. Many people who play one of these clones quickly get bored and leave. It has nothing to do with being a jaded MMO player, because if true innovation was happening in the genre, it would be hard to become jaded.
I expect more from these games. The current crop is nothing much more than a bunch of treadmills designed to keep you paying. Most of these devs have zero interest in how much fun you are having, or how much adventure you are experiencing. It's all about getting you hooked in and paying the subs. MMO's of today seem to be tapping into that addictive quality of Las Vegas electronic gambling machines who's job is to ruthlessly lead you on just enough to keep your playing until your money is gone. They don't care if you have fun, they just want to hook you, and they have figured how.
Now that I have taken a nice long break which probably won't end until Fallen Earth comes out, I have realized that the only saving grace for this genre will be small, niche games. We, as gamers, should be supporting the small dev houses and games such as Darkfall, Earthrise, EVE, etc. They may be our only hope for real MMO gaming.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
As a long time lurker @ MMORPG, I have never felt a more compelling reason to post until now. Gaming in general (especially the MMO's) has certainly taken a turn for the worst over the last few years.
We often read about games with visionary concepts that capture our attention, but due to corporate deadlines and over eager publishers looking to force this crap out the door 9 times out of 10 these features never enter the game and it becuase more of the same tripe we have been playing only with watered down vanilla features. Think about when you read about a game that really got you excited... Whether it was a sequel to a game you already knew and loved or something fresh... Now think of how you felt after it actually released...
WOW is a machine... and it offers it's players a slow morphine drip that they keep going back for... I used to be an avid WOW player as I am sure a lot of the people here are/were but after a while the game just lost it for me... all challenges were gone and the game was super EZ mode and Safe mode.
Korea/China keeps vomiting out all this F2P crap that has caused all sorts of havoc on the marketplace.... they are the silent killer... I mean the games just suck... I am sorry to hurt your feelings if you like this crap but come on now... (and yes I played Runes of Magic which is probably the least sucky of the bunch) I would rahter pay $100/ month for a good game... a REALLY good game than this free 2 play awfulness. People see a F2P game and see very often pretty graphics but the games is like an M&M with out the chocolately center... just a hollow empty shell with harly any content yet players hold every other game up to the graphical standard etc which should be the least important thing.
What I have seen happening is a revolution of sorts... I think a lot of people have gotten so sick of these supposed mainstream AAA failures, and companies have pulled back the reigns on the inherent risk of spending millions of dollars just to suck... It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF... NOW you start seeing some new game houses forming and the resurgance of indy developers that can now self distribute and publish digitally, long lost are the days where you actually go into a gamestop (have you been in one recently and seen the PC game section?) to buy PC games... I have to appluad companies like Adventurine for creating Darkfall and Quest Online for Alganon (Alganon has a great story in itself) and several of the other companies that are starting to think outside the box and cherry pick the best of features of the mainstream games and make them better.
Take a game like Alganon... This is being head up by David Allen who if the name is not familiar was the original devloper of Horizons... David was basically kicked out of Horizons because he wanted to delay the game due to it not being the vision of what he imagined... If you go even further back and look at David's games he made two fantiaticly intense singleplayer and lan games called Mordor: depths of dejenol and Demise. Cheezy graphics but 110% immersive. This is what I would expect of his latest title Alganon... I just hope to not be disappointed.
I hope to see games, I mean real gamers here, show support for the resurgance of indy games and developers out there and while the graphics may not be that of a AAA game it's it the immersion that we all seek? Where we actually give a damn about the characters we play and not just "color by numbers"
The next wave should certainly be an interesting one... Failures like Age of Conan (failures by the expectations of the developers) and Warhammer (which i currently dabble in) and Tabula Rasa are EXACTLY what this industry needed! The games that we see being developed now are going to need to re-evaluate how they launch and the content they have at launch... They can no longer plan "launch promised" features in a 6 month development cycle just to bang it out the door... The modern voracious gamer will chew through the content in weeks if not days only to find their delicate ADHD minds going back to the comfort of the slow morphine drip that is WOW once again...
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
I mostly agree. And Is worst than this guy comment.
I'll make this short... Some of you say "They only want our money and they don't have an intrest in our entertainment" Well, game is bussines and they try to make it profitable. On the other hand, if you pay a sub they are convinced that you are having fun... And why they should be changing something? If you dont enjoy a game why the hell you should pay for it?
The difference is seen in the details and the quality of the gaming experience. The large game dev houses are cranking out games with the same lack of care that the large music publishers are cranking out crappy music. We all realize here that ONE of the goals should be making money, since this is a business. However, it should not be the ONLY goal, forsaking quality, customer satisfaction. and innovation. What ever happened to wanting to build a better product or service?
Yes, there are idiots out there who will buy anything, but there are also people like me who will not pay these game companies one penny for the crap being sold these days. That means there is room for smaller, nich mmos to make money and grow a successful and hardcore subscriber base in the same way EVE has. Eve's subscriber numbers are nothing in the big scheme of business, but ask the people at CCP if they are making money while turning out a super-high quality product. Eve isn't my kind of game, but I applaud them for what they have done, and I can only hope other small dev houses follow suit.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I think the main problem here is that we have clashing concepts now. MMO's were originally created for those DnD gamers who didn't want to use pencil and paper anymore. They were created for a very small portion of the population, which is why they were not very popular back in the day. I myself played EQ and SWG religiously, but then life came along. I went to college, I got a degree, I got a job and more importantly I am getting a family. These games were HUGE time sinks that the casual gamer can not dedicate time to and have any fun. I loved these games, but I just can't dedicate time to them anymore. So what we have is what the hardcore gamers want and what the casual gamers want. It is extremely difficult to find a middle ground between the two. Many casual gamers are OK with not being the best at the game because you can't play 8+ hours a day, but none of us like having absolutely no chance vs. such a person b/c he's geared out. I think that's what attracts me to games like Counter-Strike and L4D. Skill based games where the only benefit to playing the game more is that you have a better grasp on strategies. I have always wanted a game that is more life like in combat in that if you shoot someone with an arrow through the eye, then no amount of equipment would keep you from dying. I just don't think we are at a place technologically to be able to come to this middle ground.
...because apparently everyone is brainwashed and pays to play games that they don't like, while brilliant gems don't get played for some strange reason. People spend month after month paying a fee to play bad games. Its all because of an advertisment or a friend forcing them to play. People don't eat food they hate. They dont' read books multiple times they hate. They don't go to movies OVER and OVER again that they hate. But they plays MMOs they hate. They play MMOs that really suck and ignore MMOs that are really great. Its always been that way=)
Great post (even with a little bit of rant)! =P
I haven't been playing MMO's for too long ( I think my first was CoH in 2004) but I did play MUD's and D&D when I was younger.
Dave Arneson (D&D co-creator) recently died and he was quoted as saying "Dice and maps and figures and complicated rule books are a crutch. The game doesn't need them — but the market does", which I think kind of echoes some of the sentiment of the OP.
I've left WoW and begun playing EvE Online and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. After reading the OP's comments I think the reason I'm enjoying it is because, to a certain extent, it has remained a niche game and thus is immune to the jaws of the marketing monster.
I'm not a economics or business whiz but what I do know is that for me, in the end, WoW began to feel like hanging around in the arcade with a bunch of kids, playing the same level over and over again trying to beat the high score - instead of being immersed in a lush and creative game world like many of the table-top RPG's of old.
Actually, Mortal online are aiming to make a new game after the old model, if it will work or not is anybodys guess. It is hard to go back to older times.
But Im not happy where MMOs are going either, it feels like very little have happened for the last 5 or even 10 years. The genre must reinvent itself again to continue to be fun.
My hopes are to CCP/Whitewolf and Bioware right now. The mix of an experienced pen and paper company and a experienced MMO company should inject some fresh blood. As for Bioware, they have always done their own thing and are not likely to copy from that Wow/EQ rosetta stone.
One thing is certain, we don't neeed another 10 years of games close to EQ (and Meridian 59 for that matter, why do everyone always forget about it? I played it). The genre feels dryer now than FPS games just before Half-life showed up and changed things.
ive enjoyed reading the responses.......thank you.
This would be one of my chief complaints about the (major Western) MMORPG releases of the last several years-- I am not interested in going through the game on a conveyor belt of questing. I don't mind questing for particular items, but I want to choose whether I participate or even NOTICE the official storyline. I am more interested in making my own stories than in experiencing a canned story.
I was only vaguely aware of EQ having any kind of storyline until PoP, I think. Before that, there was lore (Dwarves hate dark elves, the combine built all these strange spires, and, oh, look at this new place we discovered-- It's Kunark/Velious/the moon!) that you could use or ignore. There was and is so much content that is just there to pick and choose from that there were times that the most difficult part of your gaming day would be deciding what to do. There were no "must do" quests, and it was perfectly possible to play through to the end game without really doing very many (or maybe any) quests at all.
Also, because faction really mattered, it mattered what class and race you picked. Your early game experience was not necessarily the same if you chose a gnome wizard or a dark elf shadow knight-- in many games now, including (The New) EQ, you're going to do exactly the same things at exactly the same levels, no matter what you choose to play. You might do something different for 5 or 10 levels, but you get on that conveyor belt sooner or later, along with everyone else your level. I'm not a fan of that.
In any case, I'd like to wish the OP (Rekindle) good luck in the future, with or without MMOs.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I think level caps limit mmo's in an unmeasurable ammount.
If the new SE MMO caves into the WoW'ish style Ill be throwing in the towel as well. But for the moment I still have a few rounds left in me. Otherwise I could always learn Japanese and play the good MMO's that have no wow infleuence.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I'm in my 40s and started with EverQuest in 1999 like a bunch of folks. I've played a whole raft of different MMOs, tried many more and have been away from the genre for a year or so. My reason for not playing these days is that the games haven't changed.
Our first MMO brought so much novelty into our gaming. So many new experiences, from creating our first character to interacting with our first NPC to moving around in our first zone, our first kill, our first level, death, corpse run, group, quest, etc, etc, etc.
But we've done all those things. They are commonplace gaming experiences. Repackaging them in a different fiction or upgraded graphics doesn't change the fundamental experience. Getting a quest to kill NPCs to get a quest item to return to the quest-giver is the same no matter how you dress it up.
MMOs need to produce fundamentally new types of experiences for players. When that is done, players will feel that the games are a novel experience again, harkening back to the first one or two that we played.
It may not take ray traced graphics, physics simulations or live events. It may be a problem of figuring out how to get players to interact more intimately. For example, many people don't like to use voice because it's an intimate thing to do and strangers are listening. If a game solved the problem of finding like-minded players, perhaps MMO gaming would find its second wind.
Sadly i have to agree with the OP, not so much on the WOW rant stuff just MMO's in general.
I find myself hardly logging in anymore to any of them i play, same ol, same ol for me....
But i do have to ask myself, maybe i'm the problem, not the game or the genre....maybe i'm just not a gamer anymore =(
I can't even bring myself to play single player games...havn't touched my magic the gathering cards in over a year...i sit here and read forums mostly now...-sigh-
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
/OP
Let just say , I sign too.
The MMO genre is dead, and stick a for in it...
At least year (s) before we had something to hope for (no mater how ultimately pointles that was) - now there is nothing.
The few still in development (and now there are really only few left) ...well - a birdie told me : "Dont expect much"
Actually If you were disapointed with 2008 bunch of MMOs. You better sign of now
The only whatsoever quality MMO in future will be SW-TOR. But it will be just another run of the mill DIKU based singleplayer online game. And that wont be released before 2011 anyway
So whats there to hope for?
Some secret project that will be released in 2-4 years from now?
We better find another hobby until than....
...because apparently everyone is brainwashed and pays to play games that they don't like, while brilliant gems don't get played for some strange reason. People spend month after month paying a fee to play bad games. Its all because of an advertisment or a friend forcing them to play. People don't eat food they hate. They dont' read books multiple times they hate. They don't go to movies OVER and OVER again that they hate. But they plays MMOs they hate. They play MMOs that really suck and ignore MMOs that are really great. Its always been that way=)
There are different types of consumers out there who demand different levels of quality in their products and services. 'The masses' may think WoW is an a incredible breakthrough in online gaming, but many of us here disagree to say the least. Enough of us that there are successful niche markets out there that will continue to grow as the WoW crowd loses players to boredom. I'm seeing more and more posts here from people who's first MMO was WoW, and they are already tired of WoW and the clones. The gaming style WoW offers is inherently shallow, and once people step off the treadmill, they have a hard time getting back on, even if it takes years to get there for some. Niche markets will continue to grow as more people become tired of the mainstream MMO formula being abused now.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Let's face it, these games are not social any more. The only socializing going on is usually just a guild on a vent server... or even worse, the vent server within a guild is broken up into clique groups of only a few people in different channels who always hang out together and ignore their rest of the guild and the people on the server.This disease infected all of the guilds I have joined in recent years.
This is one of the main reasons I miss the community of Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies. Say what you want about the game, but I haven't seen a community which felt so alive or intertwined in a game since.
My very first day in SWG, I popped into a Starport on one of the servers, and was met by a player who took it upon himself to be a tour guide for noobs. He gave me some money, some essential items, and took me on my first hunt. I came to realize over the months after this first experience that this kind of interactivity was commonplace in SWG across all the different aspects of the gameplay. Noobs were welcomed and encouraged to join in even with the most experienced players or groups. The chat happened in the chat bubbles in-game, not on vent or even really in the chat box.
I'm also one of those people who thinks voice chat has been a bad thing for MMO's. It's hard to pretend/rp you are a bad ass hunter/explorer while you are talking to some 14 year old kid giving you the play by play of a cartoon he's watching.
The lack of rich non-combat classes and activities is another reason these games are not social. These days everyone is just questing as fast as they can to get to level cap, then most of them just reroll because they figured out there was nothing to do unless they had 8 hours per day to dedicate to raiding. These games have lost the attitude of "The journey IS the destination".
This is what I miss in these games. I am not some jaded MMO player. I just expect the games to foster an interactive community. People can still lone wolf if they want, but the game shouldn't really encourage it if you ask me.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
It depends on what you are looking for. There are some "niche" games coming out this year and next year that break the current wow-clone mould. Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online, The Secret World, to name a few. I don't have a lot of interest in playing Darkfall, but I have been paying attention to what people are saying about it, and it sounds like they are bringing back some old magic by not having the game hand-hold your entire gaming experience from level 1 to cap. The ability to make your character your own instead of being stuffed into a handful of boring archtype classes soundws fantastic as well.
I'm in the midst of a long break from MMO's (and gaming in general) so that when something completely different releases such as one of the games I listed above, I can experience it with fresh eyes.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Contract to "Shiftless" please. Will put it to good use
Poor u. Luckily A=B=C ... Pop culture saved this genre
im kind of at a crossroads myself. i keep game jumping just about every other day trying to find something to keep me interested and i cant. LOTRO was my main game but i find myself hardly logging in to that as well. seems im mostly on here reading posts and reading forums about new hardware. i dont know if its just me or its the games but i have a feeling i may hang it up as well until SWTOR comes out.
Nice post
It's a shame so many people are in denial about WoW being the turning point related to the state of the genre. Get a clue people! It had a huge effect with or without your agreement.
I tried lotro twice, and it really is a great game, as long as you aren't already sick of WoW clones. Had I not played WoW through to 70 and became bored to death, I might have had a better time in lotro. I don't want to discourage people from trying it though, unless the thought of another quest theme park game makes your brain bleed. If you are into that stuff, I can't think of a more polished game out there.
I'm surprised you are expecting something new out of SWTOR though. Sounds like more of the same WoW-clone themepark crap but with a Star Wars skin slapped on. I haven't heard a bit of news about that game that makes it sounds unique. The fact that they are pushing this "more quests than any other game" or "deeper story" garbage as features tells me I should just stay 'far, far away' from it.
God, and look what they did to the Star Trek MMO.... what a joke that is turning out to be. Anyone taking bets on how fast it tanks after launch?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I think the OP is correct. It is commercialization that has ruined the MMORPG genre.