If you dont like EvE you wont like this game. And secondly, you cant just "try" EvE you have to dedicate a legitimate amount of time to it to get a real sense of the game.
Well, the one aspect I find most appealing is the massive scale of Infinity, and how planets are rendered real time. I like the idea of being able to dip into a planet's atmosphere. I wish there were actual avatars (toons) - so that you could get out on a planets surface or in cities. Even a limited amount of toon play would certainly give this game an edge over Eve.
As it stands - it looks very ambitious and the demo video is sweet. I can't wait to see more.
I think the future of sci fi mmos have been set in motion by Infinity. I woudl love to play a ground game as well as a space game with no loading screens. This project is amazing and sets a new standard.
OK i played eve now for 3 yrs, it is a really good game with tonnes of diff ships you can own and tonnes of skills you can train and tonnes of equipment you can add to your ship, it is actully a game not for people who never played a space game before as you will be completely confused, but only problem i have with it is you dont actully feel like your in the ship, when mining all you do is target lock ore and right click mouse and clock approach then you wait 5 mins for ship to reach ore so basicly you can just read a book, and once you start to mine depending on laser you use and size of cargo bay you got, you can goto the shop while you mine or do something to occupy your self, but in combat it is basicly same you target the enimy and set orbit distance depending on optional range for weapon to do most damage,then you just activate your quickbelt weapons and what else you have and just sit back hopeing you win, But in infinity you do feel like your in the ship becouse if you deside to do something in rl your ship will just float there waiting for you to take control, and space is realistic in every way like you cant pass throw a planet in warp as you will just crash and burn, plus if your in combat and your looseing you can warp out but the enimy can also share the warp stream and disable your ship so you cant escape, and i think there is a Lisance system to fly new ships, also planet landing where you enter the atmoshpear and the front of the ship will burn and if your falling to a planet surfice like in a mining ship with lots of modules the modules will burn up and soon after the ship will be destroyed, there is also capital ship own gravity where if you fly close to a capital ship you share its gravity and you can let go of the controls and you will be in same place you stopped even if capital ship is moveing around, there is tonnes more info to add but i dont want to spoil it lol.
There are other ways to measure character development without skills, experience or levels. Like wealth ( owning ships, factories, buildings, corporations, workers.. ), licences to operate for various jobs / in various sytems, reputation, etc..
This is a shame that you do not support indy developers who try to do something "different". Do not complain if within 5 years, all MMOs are WoW copies.
Another difference: EVE is an existing game, with all its promises delivered. Infinity so far, pretty much looks like vaporware. Lots of big words and pretty pictures but absolutly no meat on the bones. A few models directly from the 3D program... LIke my homepage from the late 90s, not exactly afullfledged game system. A bit early to compare, I would say.
join the forums over at infinity, they have a space combat server going...i havent checked it out for quite some time now, but once you get a chance to try PvP teams from the server you'll be eagerly waiting for its release.
I played EVE online for 4 years, its been a roller coster ride, watching the game advance and at the same time kill it self, to my opinion only. I ve been in mining corp in old days, but didnt last a week. PVP was the way and been in pvp/piracy with most small known entities and its best alliance. But it sad to say that eve has got to go, because frankly there is not much elitism left.
All the noobs can get into a vaga and solo, if there is a palce left to solo. the overcrowding is what has really driven me off eve.
About infinity:
IT represents everything i ever dreamed of from a space game, Twich play, Infinity basiclly. I know i can set course this way, and i ll be going this way forever knowing that its not pointless like you do in eve.
Try and fly towards a star in eve, Its just a background.
What i want:
I want the big ships to be slow, Nanophoon anyone? BS are huge, and are meant to turn slow, fighter are fast and therefor, go fast.
I hope that they dont ruin the game with cheap bombers that can chew on a BS class ship within seconds.
I plan on making it my full time game, of my gaming time when its out, So please don't make it hard to find something to do: e.i: searching hours for an agent to do missions./
Make pirating hard, and if you re a pirate you simply cant work for a lawful faction/corporation.
Industry, ship building, should be reasonably slow. Not tooooooooooooo slow, and not a 1 day job either to build a fraking bs.
The ability to put some of the turrets, ei rear turret on ai control, ala x3, to be able to set it up for any deffense system and such.
i though i should check out eve... so i did... now i understand why everybody hates it... it took me 2 weeks just to understand the basics... but it was quite fun after that:P but if you are the kind of person who hates things that takes time eve is ABSOLUTELY not for you... if you get friends it actually gets kinda fun... i wonder how infinity is compared.
I have a 60mil sp cahr one ve, and it took me tiem since 2004 to reach that.
I mainly specialise, to the ships i fly i do the max damage for them.
other pilots with 40msp for isntance can fly all that i fly with lvl 4 to all, meaning he ll be 5 to 20% less effective in certain areas, up to 50% on some
so if you assume taht experience will make you elite in eve, well, you would be right by 20%
the other 80% that is is msot important aspect of that game is, cleverness wich counts to a good 20-40%
and the rest is TIME, wich earns you skills. Also money thru trade, industry, or even pirating (pvp) in general
EVE takes time, Its good when you paly it for a year kind of part time, doing the basic skills.
But after that youd better find ur self a nice big 0.0 corp to enjoy lots of fun fleet battles, ITs pretty complex enogh to make each battle feel different fromt he other, Unlike freelancer experience, EVE envolves lots of planning before a fight, or during.
If you re an alliance or corp leader, or an FC, you will feel like you are playing Total war in sapce, or Empire earth using real people, and moving them about aroudn the map.
ITs that fun. sorta, but all will get boring. EVE took ages to get boring for me, especially with the shit laods of POS warfare that has been going on.
So ATM i jsut look forward to infinity more than any game out there, I want to feel that iam really in space, cause i doubt my generation will catch on the space age in time to be of any use
Ok so ive been watchnig this for some time. Ive played eve for over 3 years, and to be quite honest, i think when this game and others (such as Star Trek Online) are released, EvE online will loose a good 50% of its player base if not more. Why? Let me explain my theory.....
As it goes, im the 'strategic' kind of player. I like to plan everything. Granted there are moments when you get jumped, but most of the time you can plan.
When EvE first started, what attracted me the most was the fact that alot of other players were of the same line of thought. There wernt many wars, save the big allainces at the time, 0.0 was pretty empty, any everybody either kept to themselves or worked together as a corp to produce and manufacture. You got the odd gripe about 'this is our system, get out', couple weeks and it was over.
Because of the more mature players at the time, most of the competition was to get what is known as a Tech 2 BPO and dominate the market. Or even monopolise it. That being said, those that had played EvE since the beginning had a nice foothold in the market and had control over it. After maybe a years worth of playing you could MAYBE think about starting a mass production line. If not then you were to be a mission runner, and/or PVP'r to go fight wars in low sec with the few that were out there. There was a bit more to it. but thats the general gist of it.
As EvE grew more people joined, new patches were released and new 'professions' were created. Alot of the older players started to focus on becoming scientists, explorers, manufacturers etc... on a whole new level.
However.... over the last year or so, EvE has taken a completly different turn to what i personally expected it to. My own ideas of EvE was that it would continue to balance on that fine edge that made it interesting and playable, but just a bit too 'in depth' for any..... lets say 'kids' to take interest. EvE thought different. It wanted to expand the player base, and thus 'attract' those 'kids' that would be completley destructive.
For the past year and a half (approx), alli have seen in the EvE universe is scores of imature kids just wanting to blow stuff up. Thats it. No intention to go and build up a highly regarded personal reputation, corp, or even allaince. If you mention 'mining' to anyone who has started playing in the past 2 years, they dont want to know. They log in and ask where the fight is. Not one mention of 'anyone need help mining, hauling, or carrying equipment to help build the corps current project of building a carrier (if that what they was doing).
Anyways i think you get the gist of todays player attitudes and how it has changed (in my opinion) for the worse.
But looking at it from another angle... is it their fault that mining is boring? I dont think so.
In fact, if you do (or ever do) play EvE, you will find that on the industry and manufacturing side of the game, it is almost impossible to compete against some of the older players. Market margins are so narrow that you could be lucky to make 100isk (EvE currency) selling your first frigate, which then has to be split between whoever helped mine for the resources to build it in the first place. To put the 100isk into perspective for those that dont play, it would be like building a real life car, say a porche for a total cost of $100'000 selling it, and only makking $100. In game, the 100isk would maybe get you a single round of faction ammo. Which would be totally non productive. The only way you could make it work is if you were to make batchesof the frigates, and sell them. But getting to that stage would require a good half years worth of playing just so you could mine enough materiels to build them. And once youve achieved that, if you was playing solo, youd probably be lucky to make 2 or 3 a week. Which would then have to compete against everyone elses 2 or 3 a week, and all of those people would be competeing against someone who could make 1000 a week at half the cost. And because of this, nobody wants to do it. Because it takes to long and the rewards are shocking after putting in all that hard work. So they go a fight. I would say the majority of players in EvE are pirates, or fighters, or somthing of the like. But they all sit by gates and kill those hard workers that want to give it a go, and steal their stuff. I know 17 people both real life and people i have met in game, that have quit EvE in the last 6 months because they are tired of trying to be productive but get randomly declared war on by a corporation who has no interest in industry, hasnt got the balls to goto the outer regions where the big boys(and girls) play war, but instead choose to declare war on unsuspecting industrial corps who cant fight in the slightest because they know that they will be easy pickings. In the past t was 'if you dont leave this system, we will war dec you' Either you left, or you stood your ground. Today its 'we are going to war dec you becuase we want to'. This means that although everyone pays the same subscription fee, those that wish to fight overide those that dont and wish to have a peaceful productive existance in EvE. Which personally i dont find vewry fair. Group of 4 miners suddenly gattin war dec''d by a 40 man Combat corp just dosent seem right.
What has any of this got to do with infinity?? Well as mentioned before by another poster, the game will be complicated and disorientating to anyone that hasnt played a space MMO before. But hopefully, where infinity will pick up brownie points will be how it handles the game play. Already we can see that the developpers have put intesive amounts of skill and work into what there is already, judging from the screen shot and the you tube vids. With infinity it would seem that you will have free reign of the entire universe. Unlike EvE as you can really only do things at places that you can warp to, such as planets, moons and station. Even the Asteroid belts for mining are labled so there is no need to go hunting for that ever elusive rare ore you need to finnish your Carrier project. Instead EvE put all the rare minerals in the more dangerous areas of space where only those that dominate the regions can collect it.
With Infinity i would pressume that exploration would be the key to finding the same resources, and once you find it you could happily harvest it by yourself unless another 'corporation' also found it. 'So Big Neon Sign' (no brainer) versus 'go look for it yourself' (need to put some thought into what your doing and work together, guns arnt the answer). Another thing with the resources in EvE is that they just dont run out. Hopefully Infinity will introduce a system where resources actually run out. Maybe respawn, but not as quick as in EvE which i think is somthing like a couple of weeks, which really dosent make any difference because there is so much of it availible. You can just fly to another system and find it without hunting around, you just know its gonna be there. There are not really that many systems that do not have Asteroid to be harvested, so the chances of it getting harder to find are next to none.
If resources did run out, as resources dwindle, the price of those resources goes up, which would make for a more realistic 'Market' compared to that of EvE, which i also think is another reason why playing the indusrty game in EvE is very hard.
Another aspect to EvE that I hope will be different in infinity is the ‘professions’. With most MMO’s, you select a profession when you build your character. Once you hit complete, its very hard to change, unless you delete him/her, and create a new one. I play, Anarchy online, WoW, Neocron, EvE Online, and a few others that I cant remember their names. But all except EvE allow you to choose a profession and then you have to stick to it. For example, my spy in Neocron would have a hard time changing to use the Psi skills as I didn’t put any attributs into it when I created it. Thus I am forced to stay a spy. My other character in Neocron is an engineer, and again, changing to combat orientated would be hard and long, but not as long as changing from engineer to Psi skills. With EvE online, if you choose to be an engineer, or scientist, you choose the repective attributs at character creation. BUT!!!! Those attributs you choose only come into effect when learning skills to use, with regards as to how long those skills take to learn. And to be quite honest, there isn’t really much difference in times at all, with the exception of the levels of skill. The point I am getting at is that it is relatively easy for a combatant to do a bit of industry on the side. However, for a pure industrialist to move to combat would require a good half year of training before maybe thinking about going 1 v 1 against another player. Basically there isn’t enough margin between the different professions in the sense that the skill training is out of proportion. Hopefully in Infinity, there will be said margin, and a group of industrialist would be a welcomed asset into a corporation and/or alliance instead of the comments such as ‘we need fighters, we don’t need industrialists because nearly all of us can build what we need anyway’. Another problem is skills. Once you reach level 5….thats it. They don’t go any higher.
Moving onto the combat within EvE. One thing that has not made me very happy is the fact that anyone can declare war on anyone for no reason at all. In EvE it costs money to declare a war. Now for a small corporation of say 3 members to get war dec’d by a 200 man corp would be the same price as a 200 v 200 man war. Now it stands to reason that most small corps are usually just starting out in EvE. So a small 3 man corp getting chased around space after day 14 of playing EvE by a 200 man corp is only going to force them to quit EvE after their 14 day trial. Why would they want to spend $20/month getting everything they will ever achieve destroyed by some kids who just want to blow stuff up?? I certainly wouldn’t. Id take my hard earned cash somewhere else. Its like going to the games arcade, putting $1 in the slot and getting 3 and a half minutes of fun before you die. Personally I would have liked to have been able to develop, maybe have the odd small skirmish, but be able to develop, so that when I felt ready to take on someone bigger, then I could. Not just have that decided for me and end up getting perma ganked by a 200 man corp of 4 year old players.
In conclusion:
With infinity, the work available for viewing so far , along with the videos etc… are looking good, and I hope that they will reflect the final product of the game itself.
What I would like to see for everyone that is intending on playing Infinity is for it to be more thought out and a lot fairer. If you choose a profession, it should be hard to change, if you are in a safe area, then it should be 100% safe. I would like to see warfare on a larger tactical scale instead of a 3 minute and its all over thing(a fleet of battleships maneuvering into position trying to give a full broadside to a opposing fleet). I would like to see a more realistic market that that which is presented in EvE, along with the resources and availability of such not as plentiful as in the EvE universe. I would like to see realistic sensor scanning and navigation instead of the continuous drop down menus and clicking like that in EvE. There is so much that Infinity could be than just another combat space sim. Skills that can be trained continuously (not just to level 5). Ideally I would like to see a combination of the games; Edge of Chaos, Battlecruiser Millenium, maybe some EvE, X3, and possibly some wing commander all rolled into one along with the already impressive infinity graphics that I have already mentioned before.
Anyways I have said my piece. I shall now remain silent for the rest of the century.
This is true enough, but would you invest heavily in somthing that was just a dream? I think that using the free software and seeing what they can do before maybe moving onto somthing a bit better is a good move. Infinity is in the Experimaental/Semi-development stage as i understand so probably a good idea for now. If they pickup some 'help' along the way then maybe things will change. Best to stay safe for now.
Bingo! Lesson number one, how NOT to write a MMO. If you don't have skills or experience or some way to measure character development you don't have a MMO, all you have a fancy FPS game. All I can say about this game is, remind everyone to avoid it like the plague!
Sorry for the (very) late reply to this gem of a post
I bow to you, lord of the MMOs. You, who have mastered the past, present and future of game designing. The dasher of hopes for every stupid sandbox player out there. You're a giant among men, and a man among mice.
But seriously though, do you realy have that much of a need to be taken by the hand, put in a treadmill, and grind-grind-grind your way through games?
liked EvE up to the point where I started paying over 10million isk to replace a clone. And when you in a war, and when you have a computer that can not in anyway handle your ship blowing up, or any other ship blowing up for that matter. Doesn't help much.
Also playing the game "Just to mine" isn't really fun... its called a Job at that point. Now if I had started making real money selling the Isk maybe I would have stayed. But just when I was thinking about it, They started to crack down on that sort of thing.
Also I find this intresting, it will take you over a year in time just to be able to fly a dread. And that is without all the weapon skill needed to shoot from it. You can ack on at least another 2 months getting every skill required to use it and be "safe" with it.
I lost intrest in it mainly that honestly unless you had either a BPO of a popular cursier or got your hands on a useful Tech2 BPO your pretty much out of it, unless you have a really tight group of friends on there. Also from the mining presective. Anywhere in secure space you can pretty much forget about mining. All the fields there where gone. Also botters where rampent mining fields. I mean after awhile the funest thing to do was to screw with the bots.
If the combat engine is indicative of how combat and space travel is going to play out in this game (which it is likely pretty close to what it will be) then Infinity will be much more dynamic than EVE.
EVE is great at what it does and it is a good game. It's the sole surviving sandbox among all MMO games and a lot has to be said for that.
The engine is going to separate this game from EVE, though. It's all about the engine and optimizing every bit of memory and action. The end result, if this continues, is going to reflect that attention to detail.
I'm anticipating this game will be a solid MMO with a decent enough population of players. They reallly need to step up the development process to keep everyone motivated though.
It's my understanding that Infinity has basically one guy coding the whole thing, with some help. 3d models and such are contributed by the community (which is a great system, one must admit). But manpower, or the lack thereof, makes me doubt that this game will ever see the light of day. I would guess that it will end up as a demo project to sell the engine (which they have already done once, afaik).
Well I've followed him since he hit the boards and have seen what he's grown today. Since he is on his own he has stated that the game will come out when its done and that's fine with me as much as Iam antsy for something new on the market. The worst thing that could happen would be for some money bags to try and come in and then start dictating changes for expediting things to market before its ready.
I do feel he is may be to much of a perfectionist as with anything you can over tweak for miner gain. As he adds staff and starts sharing his vision he will have to realize that in order to see people enjoy his hardwork he will have to have people help and sometimes good is good enough. Do not doubt the man's quality try out the little site demo and anyone will be impressed.
I played EVE-Online for about six months, and what a big waste of time that was. Anyway, the thing that I find lacking in almost every SpaceMMO, is that you only have a ship to use. Why can't we get off our ships once and a while and do an Away mission, some planet/ground based exploration, even combat. It seems a waste of time for you to create your Toon, only to have it sit in the ship all the time. Demand that your toon can leave the ship and get some exercise once and a while. It will give you more options, and make the game better.
Infinity developers, if you are reading this, then please take this into consideration. Thank you.
Bingo! Lesson number one, how NOT to write a MMO. If you don't have skills or experience or some way to measure character development you don't have a MMO, all you have a fancy FPS game. All I can say about this game is, remind everyone to avoid it like the plague!
Looks like an intresting sand-box style indy game. I hope they are able to ship it; didn't see any company info on the site (jobs, locations, etc.) but it does look like an intresting concept and they seem to have an active page so it might make it through.
...didn't see any company info on the site (jobs, locations, etc.)...
Actually there is no company (it's indy). It's a one man army at least for the engine (I-Novae). There are also some other developers and many contributors that made other stuff as 3D models of ships, textures, music, sounds, etc.
Comments
If you dont like EvE you wont like this game. And secondly, you cant just "try" EvE you have to dedicate a legitimate amount of time to it to get a real sense of the game.
I think the future of sci fi mmos have been set in motion by Infinity. I woudl love to play a ground game as well as a space game with no loading screens. This project is amazing and sets a new standard.
OK i played eve now for 3 yrs, it is a really good game with tonnes of diff ships you can own and tonnes of skills you can train and tonnes of equipment you can add to your ship, it is actully a game not for people who never played a space game before as you will be completely confused, but only problem i have with it is you dont actully feel like your in the ship, when mining all you do is target lock ore and right click mouse and clock approach then you wait 5 mins for ship to reach ore so basicly you can just read a book, and once you start to mine depending on laser you use and size of cargo bay you got, you can goto the shop while you mine or do something to occupy your self, but in combat it is basicly same you target the enimy and set orbit distance depending on optional range for weapon to do most damage,then you just activate your quickbelt weapons and what else you have and just sit back hopeing you win, But in infinity you do feel like your in the ship becouse if you deside to do something in rl your ship will just float there waiting for you to take control, and space is realistic in every way like you cant pass throw a planet in warp as you will just crash and burn, plus if your in combat and your looseing you can warp out but the enimy can also share the warp stream and disable your ship so you cant escape, and i think there is a Lisance system to fly new ships, also planet landing where you enter the atmoshpear and the front of the ship will burn and if your falling to a planet surfice like in a mining ship with lots of modules the modules will burn up and soon after the ship will be destroyed, there is also capital ship own gravity where if you fly close to a capital ship you share its gravity and you can let go of the controls and you will be in same place you stopped even if capital ship is moveing around, there is tonnes more info to add but i dont want to spoil it lol.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/3845509852.png
"8. No skills, experience or levels. "
Bingo!
Lesson number one, how NOT to write a MMO.
If you don't have skills or experience or some way to measure character development you don't have a MMO, all you have a fancy FPS game.
All I can say about this game is, remind everyone to avoid it like the plague!
There are other ways to measure character development without skills, experience or levels. Like wealth ( owning ships, factories, buildings, corporations, workers.. ), licences to operate for various jobs / in various sytems, reputation, etc..
This is a shame that you do not support indy developers who try to do something "different". Do not complain if within 5 years, all MMOs are WoW copies.
Infinity: The Quest for Earth, space-sim MMO with a seamless procedural galaxy.
join the forums over at infinity, they have a space combat server going...i havent checked it out for quite some time now, but once you get a chance to try PvP teams from the server you'll be eagerly waiting for its release.
What i know
I played EVE online for 4 years, its been a roller coster ride, watching the game advance and at the same time kill it self, to my opinion only. I ve been in mining corp in old days, but didnt last a week. PVP was the way and been in pvp/piracy with most small known entities and its best alliance. But it sad to say that eve has got to go, because frankly there is not much elitism left.
All the noobs can get into a vaga and solo, if there is a palce left to solo. the overcrowding is what has really driven me off eve.
About infinity:
IT represents everything i ever dreamed of from a space game, Twich play, Infinity basiclly. I know i can set course this way, and i ll be going this way forever knowing that its not pointless like you do in eve.
Try and fly towards a star in eve, Its just a background.
What i want:
I want the big ships to be slow, Nanophoon anyone? BS are huge, and are meant to turn slow, fighter are fast and therefor, go fast.
I hope that they dont ruin the game with cheap bombers that can chew on a BS class ship within seconds.
I plan on making it my full time game, of my gaming time when its out, So please don't make it hard to find something to do: e.i: searching hours for an agent to do missions./
Make pirating hard, and if you re a pirate you simply cant work for a lawful faction/corporation.
Industry, ship building, should be reasonably slow. Not tooooooooooooo slow, and not a 1 day job either to build a fraking bs.
The ability to put some of the turrets, ei rear turret on ai control, ala x3, to be able to set it up for any deffense system and such.
i though i should check out eve... so i did... now i understand why everybody hates it... it took me 2 weeks just to understand the basics... but it was quite fun after that:P but if you are the kind of person who hates things that takes time eve is ABSOLUTELY not for you... if you get friends it actually gets kinda fun... i wonder how infinity is compared.
Yeah it does take ages,
I have a 60mil sp cahr one ve, and it took me tiem since 2004 to reach that.
I mainly specialise, to the ships i fly i do the max damage for them.
other pilots with 40msp for isntance can fly all that i fly with lvl 4 to all, meaning he ll be 5 to 20% less effective in certain areas, up to 50% on some
so if you assume taht experience will make you elite in eve, well, you would be right by 20%
the other 80% that is is msot important aspect of that game is, cleverness wich counts to a good 20-40%
and the rest is TIME, wich earns you skills. Also money thru trade, industry, or even pirating (pvp) in general
EVE takes time, Its good when you paly it for a year kind of part time, doing the basic skills.
But after that youd better find ur self a nice big 0.0 corp to enjoy lots of fun fleet battles, ITs pretty complex enogh to make each battle feel different fromt he other, Unlike freelancer experience, EVE envolves lots of planning before a fight, or during.
If you re an alliance or corp leader, or an FC, you will feel like you are playing Total war in sapce, or Empire earth using real people, and moving them about aroudn the map.
ITs that fun. sorta, but all will get boring. EVE took ages to get boring for me, especially with the shit laods of POS warfare that has been going on.
So ATM i jsut look forward to infinity more than any game out there, I want to feel that iam really in space, cause i doubt my generation will catch on the space age in time to be of any use
Ok so ive been watchnig this for some time. Ive played eve for over 3 years, and to be quite honest, i think when this game and others (such as Star Trek Online) are released, EvE online will loose a good 50% of its player base if not more. Why? Let me explain my theory.....
As it goes, im the 'strategic' kind of player. I like to plan everything. Granted there are moments when you get jumped, but most of the time you can plan.
When EvE first started, what attracted me the most was the fact that alot of other players were of the same line of thought. There wernt many wars, save the big allainces at the time, 0.0 was pretty empty, any everybody either kept to themselves or worked together as a corp to produce and manufacture. You got the odd gripe about 'this is our system, get out', couple weeks and it was over.
Because of the more mature players at the time, most of the competition was to get what is known as a Tech 2 BPO and dominate the market. Or even monopolise it. That being said, those that had played EvE since the beginning had a nice foothold in the market and had control over it. After maybe a years worth of playing you could MAYBE think about starting a mass production line. If not then you were to be a mission runner, and/or PVP'r to go fight wars in low sec with the few that were out there. There was a bit more to it. but thats the general gist of it.
As EvE grew more people joined, new patches were released and new 'professions' were created. Alot of the older players started to focus on becoming scientists, explorers, manufacturers etc... on a whole new level.
However.... over the last year or so, EvE has taken a completly different turn to what i personally expected it to. My own ideas of EvE was that it would continue to balance on that fine edge that made it interesting and playable, but just a bit too 'in depth' for any..... lets say 'kids' to take interest. EvE thought different. It wanted to expand the player base, and thus 'attract' those 'kids' that would be completley destructive.
For the past year and a half (approx), alli have seen in the EvE universe is scores of imature kids just wanting to blow stuff up. Thats it. No intention to go and build up a highly regarded personal reputation, corp, or even allaince. If you mention 'mining' to anyone who has started playing in the past 2 years, they dont want to know. They log in and ask where the fight is. Not one mention of 'anyone need help mining, hauling, or carrying equipment to help build the corps current project of building a carrier (if that what they was doing).
Anyways i think you get the gist of todays player attitudes and how it has changed (in my opinion) for the worse.
But looking at it from another angle... is it their fault that mining is boring? I dont think so.
In fact, if you do (or ever do) play EvE, you will find that on the industry and manufacturing side of the game, it is almost impossible to compete against some of the older players. Market margins are so narrow that you could be lucky to make 100isk (EvE currency) selling your first frigate, which then has to be split between whoever helped mine for the resources to build it in the first place. To put the 100isk into perspective for those that dont play, it would be like building a real life car, say a porche for a total cost of $100'000 selling it, and only makking $100. In game, the 100isk would maybe get you a single round of faction ammo. Which would be totally non productive. The only way you could make it work is if you were to make batchesof the frigates, and sell them. But getting to that stage would require a good half years worth of playing just so you could mine enough materiels to build them. And once youve achieved that, if you was playing solo, youd probably be lucky to make 2 or 3 a week. Which would then have to compete against everyone elses 2 or 3 a week, and all of those people would be competeing against someone who could make 1000 a week at half the cost. And because of this, nobody wants to do it. Because it takes to long and the rewards are shocking after putting in all that hard work. So they go a fight. I would say the majority of players in EvE are pirates, or fighters, or somthing of the like. But they all sit by gates and kill those hard workers that want to give it a go, and steal their stuff. I know 17 people both real life and people i have met in game, that have quit EvE in the last 6 months because they are tired of trying to be productive but get randomly declared war on by a corporation who has no interest in industry, hasnt got the balls to goto the outer regions where the big boys(and girls) play war, but instead choose to declare war on unsuspecting industrial corps who cant fight in the slightest because they know that they will be easy pickings. In the past t was 'if you dont leave this system, we will war dec you' Either you left, or you stood your ground. Today its 'we are going to war dec you becuase we want to'. This means that although everyone pays the same subscription fee, those that wish to fight overide those that dont and wish to have a peaceful productive existance in EvE. Which personally i dont find vewry fair. Group of 4 miners suddenly gattin war dec''d by a 40 man Combat corp just dosent seem right.
What has any of this got to do with infinity?? Well as mentioned before by another poster, the game will be complicated and disorientating to anyone that hasnt played a space MMO before. But hopefully, where infinity will pick up brownie points will be how it handles the game play. Already we can see that the developpers have put intesive amounts of skill and work into what there is already, judging from the screen shot and the you tube vids. With infinity it would seem that you will have free reign of the entire universe. Unlike EvE as you can really only do things at places that you can warp to, such as planets, moons and station. Even the Asteroid belts for mining are labled so there is no need to go hunting for that ever elusive rare ore you need to finnish your Carrier project. Instead EvE put all the rare minerals in the more dangerous areas of space where only those that dominate the regions can collect it.
With Infinity i would pressume that exploration would be the key to finding the same resources, and once you find it you could happily harvest it by yourself unless another 'corporation' also found it. 'So Big Neon Sign' (no brainer) versus 'go look for it yourself' (need to put some thought into what your doing and work together, guns arnt the answer). Another thing with the resources in EvE is that they just dont run out. Hopefully Infinity will introduce a system where resources actually run out. Maybe respawn, but not as quick as in EvE which i think is somthing like a couple of weeks, which really dosent make any difference because there is so much of it availible. You can just fly to another system and find it without hunting around, you just know its gonna be there. There are not really that many systems that do not have Asteroid to be harvested, so the chances of it getting harder to find are next to none.
If resources did run out, as resources dwindle, the price of those resources goes up, which would make for a more realistic 'Market' compared to that of EvE, which i also think is another reason why playing the indusrty game in EvE is very hard.
Another aspect to EvE that I hope will be different in infinity is the ‘professions’. With most MMO’s, you select a profession when you build your character. Once you hit complete, its very hard to change, unless you delete him/her, and create a new one. I play, Anarchy online, WoW, Neocron, EvE Online, and a few others that I cant remember their names. But all except EvE allow you to choose a profession and then you have to stick to it. For example, my spy in Neocron would have a hard time changing to use the Psi skills as I didn’t put any attributs into it when I created it. Thus I am forced to stay a spy. My other character in Neocron is an engineer, and again, changing to combat orientated would be hard and long, but not as long as changing from engineer to Psi skills. With EvE online, if you choose to be an engineer, or scientist, you choose the repective attributs at character creation. BUT!!!! Those attributs you choose only come into effect when learning skills to use, with regards as to how long those skills take to learn. And to be quite honest, there isn’t really much difference in times at all, with the exception of the levels of skill. The point I am getting at is that it is relatively easy for a combatant to do a bit of industry on the side. However, for a pure industrialist to move to combat would require a good half year of training before maybe thinking about going 1 v 1 against another player. Basically there isn’t enough margin between the different professions in the sense that the skill training is out of proportion. Hopefully in Infinity, there will be said margin, and a group of industrialist would be a welcomed asset into a corporation and/or alliance instead of the comments such as ‘we need fighters, we don’t need industrialists because nearly all of us can build what we need anyway’. Another problem is skills. Once you reach level 5….thats it. They don’t go any higher.
Moving onto the combat within EvE. One thing that has not made me very happy is the fact that anyone can declare war on anyone for no reason at all. In EvE it costs money to declare a war. Now for a small corporation of say 3 members to get war dec’d by a 200 man corp would be the same price as a 200 v 200 man war. Now it stands to reason that most small corps are usually just starting out in EvE. So a small 3 man corp getting chased around space after day 14 of playing EvE by a 200 man corp is only going to force them to quit EvE after their 14 day trial. Why would they want to spend $20/month getting everything they will ever achieve destroyed by some kids who just want to blow stuff up?? I certainly wouldn’t. Id take my hard earned cash somewhere else. Its like going to the games arcade, putting $1 in the slot and getting 3 and a half minutes of fun before you die. Personally I would have liked to have been able to develop, maybe have the odd small skirmish, but be able to develop, so that when I felt ready to take on someone bigger, then I could. Not just have that decided for me and end up getting perma ganked by a 200 man corp of 4 year old players.
In conclusion:
With infinity, the work available for viewing so far , along with the videos etc… are looking good, and I hope that they will reflect the final product of the game itself.
What I would like to see for everyone that is intending on playing Infinity is for it to be more thought out and a lot fairer. If you choose a profession, it should be hard to change, if you are in a safe area, then it should be 100% safe. I would like to see warfare on a larger tactical scale instead of a 3 minute and its all over thing(a fleet of battleships maneuvering into position trying to give a full broadside to a opposing fleet). I would like to see a more realistic market that that which is presented in EvE, along with the resources and availability of such not as plentiful as in the EvE universe. I would like to see realistic sensor scanning and navigation instead of the continuous drop down menus and clicking like that in EvE. There is so much that Infinity could be than just another combat space sim. Skills that can be trained continuously (not just to level 5). Ideally I would like to see a combination of the games; Edge of Chaos, Battlecruiser Millenium, maybe some EvE, X3, and possibly some wing commander all rolled into one along with the already impressive infinity graphics that I have already mentioned before.
Anyways I have said my piece. I shall now remain silent for the rest of the century.
Thanks for reading it all if you did.
Da Spoon King
You missed the 'No' option from your poll.
Yeah sorry. I hit enter by mistake which posted it before i had a chance. Was gonna add it or remove it but cant
So heres another one.
Da Spoon King
Thanks Felix. I really have nothing better to do that point out things like that this evening
Oh, and a huge difference (imo) is that CCP haven't used free software to design a very unsecure website.
This is true enough, but would you invest heavily in somthing that was just a dream? I think that using the free software and seeing what they can do before maybe moving onto somthing a bit better is a good move. Infinity is in the Experimaental/Semi-development stage as i understand so probably a good idea for now. If they pickup some 'help' along the way then maybe things will change. Best to stay safe for now.
Da Spoon King
Sorry for the (very) late reply to this gem of a post
I bow to you, lord of the MMOs. You, who have mastered the past, present and future of game designing. The dasher of hopes for every stupid sandbox player out there. You're a giant among men, and a man among mice.
But seriously though, do you realy have that much of a need to be taken by the hand, put in a treadmill, and grind-grind-grind your way through games?
liked EvE up to the point where I started paying over 10million isk to replace a clone. And when you in a war, and when you have a computer that can not in anyway handle your ship blowing up, or any other ship blowing up for that matter. Doesn't help much.
Also playing the game "Just to mine" isn't really fun... its called a Job at that point. Now if I had started making real money selling the Isk maybe I would have stayed. But just when I was thinking about it, They started to crack down on that sort of thing.
Also I find this intresting, it will take you over a year in time just to be able to fly a dread. And that is without all the weapon skill needed to shoot from it. You can ack on at least another 2 months getting every skill required to use it and be "safe" with it.
I lost intrest in it mainly that honestly unless you had either a BPO of a popular cursier or got your hands on a useful Tech2 BPO your pretty much out of it, unless you have a really tight group of friends on there. Also from the mining presective. Anywhere in secure space you can pretty much forget about mining. All the fields there where gone. Also botters where rampent mining fields. I mean after awhile the funest thing to do was to screw with the bots.
If the combat engine is indicative of how combat and space travel is going to play out in this game (which it is likely pretty close to what it will be) then Infinity will be much more dynamic than EVE.
EVE is great at what it does and it is a good game. It's the sole surviving sandbox among all MMO games and a lot has to be said for that.
The engine is going to separate this game from EVE, though. It's all about the engine and optimizing every bit of memory and action. The end result, if this continues, is going to reflect that attention to detail.
I'm anticipating this game will be a solid MMO with a decent enough population of players. They reallly need to step up the development process to keep everyone motivated though.
It's my understanding that Infinity has basically one guy coding the whole thing, with some help. 3d models and such are contributed by the community (which is a great system, one must admit). But manpower, or the lack thereof, makes me doubt that this game will ever see the light of day. I would guess that it will end up as a demo project to sell the engine (which they have already done once, afaik).
Well I've followed him since he hit the boards and have seen what he's grown today. Since he is on his own he has stated that the game will come out when its done and that's fine with me as much as Iam antsy for something new on the market. The worst thing that could happen would be for some money bags to try and come in and then start dictating changes for expediting things to market before its ready.
I do feel he is may be to much of a perfectionist as with anything you can over tweak for miner gain. As he adds staff and starts sharing his vision he will have to realize that in order to see people enjoy his hardwork he will have to have people help and sometimes good is good enough. Do not doubt the man's quality try out the little site demo and anyone will be impressed.
I played EVE-Online for about six months, and what a big waste of time that was. Anyway, the thing that I find lacking in almost every SpaceMMO, is that you only have a ship to use. Why can't we get off our ships once and a while and do an Away mission, some planet/ground based exploration, even combat. It seems a waste of time for you to create your Toon, only to have it sit in the ship all the time. Demand that your toon can leave the ship and get some exercise once and a while. It will give you more options, and make the game better.
Infinity developers, if you are reading this, then please take this into consideration. Thank you.
Your lesson fails in many levels.
Wtf is infinity online?
Is it a sandbox? if not no thanks.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
is it like that game that didnt get out of beta...earth and beyond?
loved playing that
shame they pulled it
Looks like an intresting sand-box style indy game. I hope they are able to ship it; didn't see any company info on the site (jobs, locations, etc.) but it does look like an intresting concept and they seem to have an active page so it might make it through.
Actually there is no company (it's indy). It's a one man army
at least for the engine (I-Novae). There are also some other developers and many contributors that made other stuff as 3D models of ships, textures, music, sounds, etc.
Infinity