Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why I won't play this game...
sonicsix
Member UncommonPosts: 66
There have been numerous overly hyped games fail and fail hard because they are primarily PvP based or have forced PvP. Just because a vocal minority on some forums claim to want PvP doesn't mean the silent majority wants it as well. WoW is so successful because it is entertaining, easy to play and there is massive PvE content and you never have to PvP unless you want to.
I was downloading TCoS and reading the FAQ at the same time and got to a point where it stated that mining areas (gathering areas for items used in tradeskills) were free-for-all PvP areas even on PvE servers. I immediately stopped the download and uninstalled the downloader. I play games casually and at my own pace, a lesiure activity I do for entertainment and fun. I do not play to compete with anyone or to be better than anyone. Uninvited PvP encounters (ganking) are not fun and should NEVER be forced in a game unless on a dedicated PvP server.
Just think how many other people feel as I do but will never post it on a forum anywhere...
Comments
I agree with you. I was thinking about giving this game a try but with PVP in mining areas it will be a waste of time for me. This reminds me of another game. Shadowbane. It was a great game until you reached lvl 10. At lvl 10 all areas were free for all PVP and level 50 characters would scout out all the lvl 10 areas and sit and wait for the lvl 10-30 groups to kills mobs. When the lvl 50 group thought the low level group had enough loot they would rush in and in one Aoe spell all the low levels would be dead. It was very hard to reach the upper levels in that game but if you were persistent and died a lot you could eventually get there. PVP games should have designated areas or (as Shadowbane proposed but never implemented) a level limit penalty. For example if a level 50 character kills a lvl 10 character there would be no exp and no loot. But with Chronicles this would not work because I do not beleive there are levels. Oh well thanks for the post and saving me time and money.
The PvE servers have very few PvP areas, and even then, these are full PvE areas as well. You cant just expect it to be terrible. PvP is a part of any MMO, and if you want to prevent yourself from getting ganked, then head for the PvE server. Dont just dismiss a game because you THINK it'll be bad.
I doubt you'll find a game that doesnt have aspects of the PvP, and therefore problems with it. I think this game evaluates this problem well, where it doesnt completely dismiss PvP, it does prevent it in most of the zones (on a PvE server).
So, do please reconsider this game. Try it to the point where you would actually need to go to those zones. Then see how bad/good it is.
I would not judge a game until I played it even if it has a little pvp in it. Shadowbane was not hard it was about alliances. I got to 75 which is max lvl in it in about 1 week. You had to join a group of good people and play together. It was not about soloing even tho you could do that if you wanted to. I have not played this game but I am thinking about giving it a try. There are usually ways to get around things as well. Could you possibly buy the materials from another player that likes to pvp? This is my suggestion and a way not to pvp to do tradeskills. If you can't buy materials off of other players then I see what you mean.
Honestly, I am not a fan of PvP either. Don't get me wrong, it can be fun, but from the developer's point of view, it saves the extra effort to pay too much attention to PvE. Sad, but true.
I tried TCoS for a tiny bit. Being into the 3D VFX industry myself (artist and writer), I thought of giving it a try. My first impression was one word: "Lost".
From my personal experience, a successful game will try to place the player into the climate of its story line as well as give a decent tutorial regarding the controls, spells bar management and so on. At least a properly escalating complexity could do the trick.
So, I went through the tutorial and then I disembarked on a world I had no idea about. On my 24'' screen I needed a microscope to read the quest text and the map did not offer me any significant aid as to where I'm supposed to turn my attention.
The action bar was confusing as of its structure and required some research (through trial and error). I did notice someone "red" lvl 15 sitting around the area of lvl 3-5 people, but I stayed far away since I had no idea if it was a player or a mob.
Perhaps this game would capture my interest further down the line, but as many story writers would say: "if it is not captivating within the first 5 pages and it fails to introduce you to the main direction of the plot within 10 pages, then it's a no go".
It's combat system, interesting as it is, one must be a spider-hand in order to combine effective moving, targetting and attacking at the same time.
Beautiful effort, but it leans toward the hard-core player as my first experience was more of a research project than a game.
Everything in life is based on one word: Respect.
I truly hope that you live in a sheltered spot in the world. Some things take some effort and they dont hold your hand. This game is different and actually takes effort and has a learning curve. It is not baby food but has some solids. Hey I can understand people not wanting to put forth some effort to learn something that is different from the norm, no problem here with that.But just to let you know, most of the great discoveries of the world have taken many years and great effort>>you usually get nothing when you expend nothing.
You even say that if i dont just love a book in the first 5 pages and you dont know about the main plot in 10 its a no go. (must be romance writers you refer here to cause no self respecting literary great would ever say such a thing) I really need say no more.
i play the game for roughly 4month now on mornexus, a german pve server
so far im having a blast with the storyline (wich i considder very well written).
in total i had around 5 pvp fights in that 4month, 1 in such a mining area (green district) and 4 in an arena (mosh pit)
it may be because of the not so high population but i found in general that the crowd on a pve server is much more ganker free then on a pvp server.
since its free for 14days id say try it anyways. if you fall in love with the story and art like myselve a small pvp match once a month may be well worth the sacrifice, if you dislike the game for its story you dont have to subscribe anyway.
atm the european servers may be a bit less populated then the acclaim servers and you might as well have no pvp at all if you choose the international pve server (great community btw)
all in all i think tcos is far from beeing that hardcore pvp centered game (like darkfall) you might envision
if your bored, visit my blog at:
http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
I am a big fan of open pvp. I always roll on the pvp server if there is one. Open pvp adds multiple layers of experience to the game. Even just normal questing gets that extra edge if you have to avoid being trounced or have to initiate combat to get that rare spawn!
That being said, I fully respect your idea not to play the game... but why come all the way to the forums to tell us about it?
Now I haven't tried Chronicles of Spellborn and don't know if I will but sometimes, just sometimes, companies make a game they want to make. And sometimes that game they want to make involves PvP. They don't care about the people who don't like that type of game because they didn't make it for them. They made it for the people who think like they do, and no company is ever obligated to make the game you want to play.
What I do find most amusing is not the people who demand PvP be in everything but in fact those people that freak out if PvP is in anything. You said the key word in your text, it's a game. If you take a game so seriously that if you get killed by another player, instead of a creature, and your day is ruined you have some issues. How do you handle the real world if someone gets a promotion over you or makes more money then you or gets the girl(guy) instead of you? If you can't handle a meaningless pixel death then I don't see how you can handle the real world.
Now to be fair I do generally like PvP, but i like PvE as well. The thing is even if I'm in a PvE mode, if someone were to come up and kill my character I wouldn't care because it's a game and that character is not real and is meaningless. I just don't get the omg the world is ending because another player hit me mentality. I can at least understand the people who don't want to be in a game and get killed by a player AND LOOTED (even though I prefer looting) since that can affect the rest of your gameplay, but the omg I died and it had no consequences even in the ficticious world so I'm angry thought process is just silly.
I am playing on the NON pvp server and loving the game immensly, Why dont you play on the NON pvp server, you are missing a fun game with a different combat system. There is a non pvp server just in case you didnt know.
playing eq2 and two worlds
@ OP
If you like tradingskills/crafting, you should stay away from Spellborn. The crafting in Spellborn are created for people who normally doesnt care about crafting. Or let me put it this way, it is created for everybody to enjoy except people who like to craft! Idiotic design beyond belief.
IF you dont need to craft in your MMO and can totally ignore that part of Spellborn, it can be a good game. I personally used it to quell my PvP needs (I naturally quit after the EU disaster, called a launch) , but can just as easily be a game you solely play for PvE. The quests are very well written and can be quite comical, which I think is very important
I would give it a go...
@ Souvlaki
You said you embarked on a world you had no idea about. As a writer, didnt you read Spellborn's background story and lore from the webpage? Its seems like a natural thing to do when trying to embark on a new world, and something that would interrest a writer?
Well, you're mssing out on a great gaming experience.
I have been playing for more than a month now and have yet to be ganked in the PvP areas on the PvE server. Most people just go about thier own business. Like you, they joined the PvE server for similar reasons and have no intention of going toe-to-toe with other players in these areas.
If you are not provoking other players, you guild is not calling war and you generally stay out of the House politics, you are safe for the most part. There will be that element that will attack unprovoked but I've not seen it. Again, I've not been ganked, at all, in more than a month. That could change at some point, I'm sure. I do pass plenty of people on a daily basis while flagged and they just do their own thing not looking for a fight. Of course, if your guild is provoking other guilds, things can get hectic. Keeping your nose clean is easy though and people tend to respect that on the PvE server.
I truly hope that you live in a sheltered spot in the world. Some things take some effort and they dont hold your hand. This game is different and actually takes effort and has a learning curve. It is not baby food but has some solids. Hey I can understand people not wanting to put forth some effort to learn something that is different from the norm, no problem here with that.But just to let you know, most of the great discoveries of the world have taken many years and great effort>>you usually get nothing when you expend nothing.
You even say that if i dont just love a book in the first 5 pages and you dont know about the main plot in 10 its a no go. (must be romance writers you refer here to cause no self respecting literary great would ever say such a thing) I really need say no more.
I actually fail to understand your hostility as I thought my words were incapable of igniting anything like it. But since you selected a different approach, let me put things in a more blunt perspective. I'm a working person and I do have a life. If I was a beta tester, I'd see things differently, but I'm a VFX professional for almost two decades and I do write from time to time participating in development projects. This means that I place my free time carefully. Investing countless hours in order to realize that I don't enjoy something half way through, I consider it a failure and an irresponsible missmanagement of my time.
The casual working gamer, which happens to be a significant portion of the market out there, does NOT have the luxury of extensive gaming sessions. Any form of recreation must be captivating or at least promising. And this brings me to your comment.
There is a vast difference between the "DIRECTION of the main plot" (where it's headed) and the "main plot ITSELF". The above reference with the page numbers is the ultimatum that is given in the production industry regarding ALL stories that are to undergo development. I merely used it as a metaphor and an actual phrase that was spoken in a briefing room more than once.
Reading is one thing. Understanding is another.
The computer users compromised back in the 80's. Today, things are demanding and people are careful where they spend their time and money on. There is no blank check on anything.
On the other side:
AoC was able to capture my interest long enough to continue until the problems became overwhelming at some point. EVE captured me also. Mass Effect (on the simple RPG side) was incredible. I'm sorry, but TCoS as intriguing as it sounded, it didn't do it for me.
I'm all in for new things. They just have to be worth my time, which is something I realize soon enough. And I invested far too long in this response.
Everything in life is based on one word: Respect.
A very interesting question!
Would anyone need to study world's history in order to grow up and live?
As a casual gamer and creator I am looking for that spark in the very beginning that will urge me to learn more. And it was my fault that I did not clarify it earlier. I don't write books. I work with screenplays (film format) and dual-column scripts (other audio-visual applications).
In this case, it's the game that will make me head for the detailed lore, not the other way around. For example, if I send an entire lore to the dev team and ask of them to read it in order to look at a project package based on it (let's say a series), they will think I'm nuts!
Then again, it's probable that I'm affected by my work more than I'd care to admit. If I had 3-4 months free (and paid), I'd see things from an entirely different perspective. But that would be a perfect world, wouldn't it?
Everything in life is based on one word: Respect.
I spend days of play time in the Green District trying to get my favourite armour pieces. In all that time i was ganked once. It was the first and last time that happened to me in 5 months. I think you are over reacting.
--
Delanor
I typically hate PvP in MMOG's. I think the reason is more the type of people attracted to PvP than anything else. Under the right circumstances I could see myself enjoying it, but I'd be real picky about the kind of environment that would appeal to me.
I could definitely see myself enjoying the kind of PvP system in TCoS. For one, on a PvE server you'd have to try pretty hard to find a fight even if you wanted to so its not forced on you. PvP can be avoided entirely. For two, the combat style in TCoS is paced just about right and has enough skill and strategy involved that it could be much more enjoyable than those scenario PvP games. For three, house versus house battles could add enough meaning to PvP that you won't feel like its just another meaningless scenario minigame.
But seriously, don't worry about PvP in TCoS if you don't like PvP. Its not forced on you at all.
I truly hope that you live in a sheltered spot in the world. Some things take some effort and they dont hold your hand. This game is different and actually takes effort and has a learning curve. It is not baby food but has some solids. Hey I can understand people not wanting to put forth some effort to learn something that is different from the norm, no problem here with that.But just to let you know, most of the great discoveries of the world have taken many years and great effort>>you usually get nothing when you expend nothing.
You even say that if i dont just love a book in the first 5 pages and you dont know about the main plot in 10 its a no go. (must be romance writers you refer here to cause no self respecting literary great would ever say such a thing) I really need say no more.
I actually fail to understand your hostility as I thought my words were incapable of igniting anything like it. But since you selected a different approach, let me put things in a more blunt perspective. I'm a working person and I do have a life. If I was a beta tester, I'd see things differently, but I'm a VFX professional for almost two decades and I do write from time to time participating in development projects. This means that I place my free time carefully. Investing countless hours in order to realize that I don't enjoy something half way through, I consider it a failure and an irresponsible missmanagement of my time.
The casual working gamer, which happens to be a significant portion of the market out there, does NOT have the luxury of extensive gaming sessions. Any form of recreation must be captivating or at least promising. And this brings me to your comment.
There is a vast difference between the "DIRECTION of the main plot" (where it's headed) and the "main plot ITSELF". The above reference with the page numbers is the ultimatum that is given in the production industry regarding ALL stories that are to undergo development. I merely used it as a metaphor and an actual phrase that was spoken in a briefing room more than once.
Reading is one thing. Understanding is another.
The computer users compromised back in the 80's. Today, things are demanding and people are careful where they spend their time and money on. There is no blank check on anything.
On the other side:
AoC was able to capture my interest long enough to continue until the problems became overwhelming at some point. EVE captured me also. Mass Effect (on the simple RPG side) was incredible. I'm sorry, but TCoS as intriguing as it sounded, it didn't do it for me.
I'm all in for new things. They just have to be worth my time, which is something I realize soon enough. And I invested far too long in this response.
There is a book called "The art of Reading a Book" by Mortimer J. Adler. I would suggest you pick up a copy and give it a go. I stand by my statements, bigwig book producers or not,. An immature reader or immature gamer makes decision in 5 mins about anything.Both reader and gamer really do have a conversation with author and game dev. I am only thankful that the great artist of the past did not have the book executives of the day . As I said in an earlier post this game is like a fine wine to be savored not chugged.The complexity and flavor improves on your palate. What a waste to do anything but savor it.
I did for a time read books for a producer. They were in binding without any artwork or printing style. No money or anything except ideas were exchanged, it was just for my opinion. He asked me for my opinion and, I promise he did not want me to read 10 pages and give him mine. My statements are not combative only pointed because they are accurate.
I can name 1 MMO that has no PvP at all and that is Lord of the Rings Online, It was left out not because of the fans but because Tolkien Inc said not to put it in. I agree that PvP should be in MMO's its just that the success of a MMO is dependent on its Player base and if a majority of the Player base does not like PvP then the Dev's should make some servers where PvP is only able with a command or an in game item. In the first MMO I played Asheron's Call if you wanted to PvP on non-PvP servers you had to go thru a series of areas then into a dungeon to use an Altar to become PvPer. Im not saying all games should do this but it doesnt hurt to have something like this on PvE servers.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I used to play games casually at my own pace too.
Then I got to the end of City of Heroes and found nothing there.
An online game without true conflict is a pretty boring one in the long run. I think a PvP end game is required for there to be any lasting meaning to one's time investment. Either that, or some kind of meaningful activity -- but it's hard to beat the meaningfulness impact of player on player conflict.
A very interesting question!
Would anyone need to study world's history in order to grow up and live?
As a casual gamer and creator I am looking for that spark in the very beginning that will urge me to learn more. And it was my fault that I did not clarify it earlier. I don't write books. I work with screenplays (film format) and dual-column scripts (other audio-visual applications).
In this case, it's the game that will make me head for the detailed lore, not the other way around. For example, if I send an entire lore to the dev team and ask of them to read it in order to look at a project package based on it (let's say a series), they will think I'm nuts!
Then again, it's probable that I'm affected by my work more than I'd care to admit. If I had 3-4 months free (and paid), I'd see things from an entirely different perspective. But that would be a perfect world, wouldn't it?
what projects have you worked on? indie games?
So you didnt even try the game at all? Thats pretty weird......an extreme over-reaction to PvP at its worst. If you had overcome your "horrific life-altering fear" of conflict and competition you would have found that TCoS is actually a very straightforward story driven PvE themepark game and involves almost no player conflict at all. As other posters have mentioned, the PvP areas are not a dominant feature of the game and I have never been ganked in any of them. I have only had 1 PvP fight when a fellow player attacked me for a laugh. He broke off the fight after damaging me a little bit but I felt honour-bound to fight to the death.....so I did......and I died......and it didnt matter at all because there is zero penalty from dieing in PvP and I respawned a few minutes walk away. If you are scared of that then you have serious issues. People are too busy running around doing PvE quests in this game to bother fighting each other.
PvP has been introduced into TCoS because players can ally themselves with each of the 5 High Houses. You cant really have competition and conflict between the High Houses if the players cant choose to wage war with each other. Also PvP works very well in this game because unlike most other mmos player skill plays a heavy roll in the combat.....so a high level player isnt neccessarily gonna beat a low level one automatically. I have seen players more then 10 levels lower than others holding their own in a fight.
You're irrational fear of PvP is based on badly implemented versions of it in other mmos in the past that were never designed for it. If you had any level of imagination you would realise that in some games PvP can work very well. This is the internet afterall and as games get better and people learn from the mistakes of the past, we will start seeing more scope for decent well thought out PvP systems.......so you had better get used to it......or be prepared to miss out on a lot of good games.
I HATE pvp and am a very casual player and have never done it in this game.
It is optional and DEFINITLY not required.
It is a shame that you did what you did, because you would have found that TCoS is a VERY casual friendly mmo with a great PvE solo/ group game that you probably would have enjoyed.
Sometimes knee jerk reactions are not the right ones
So you didnt even try the game at all? Thats pretty weird......an extreme over-reaction to PvP at its worst. If you had overcome your "horrific life-altering fear" of conflict and competition you would have found that TCoS is actually a very straightforward story driven PvE themepark game and involves almost no player conflict at all. As other posters have mentioned, the PvP areas are not a dominant feature of the game and I have never been ganked in any of them. I have only had 1 PvP fight when a fellow player attacked me for a laugh. He broke off the fight after damaging me a little bit but I felt honour-bound to fight to the death.....so I did......and I died......and it didnt matter at all because there is zero penalty from dieing in PvP and I respawned a few minutes walk away. If you are scared of that then you have serious issues. People are too busy running around doing PvE quests in this game to bother fighting each other.
PvP has been introduced into TCoS because players can ally themselves with each of the 5 High Houses. You cant really have competition and conflict between the High Houses if the players cant choose to wage war with each other. Also PvP works very well in this game because unlike most other mmos player skill plays a heavy roll in the combat.....so a high level player isnt neccessarily gonna beat a low level one automatically. I have seen players more then 10 levels lower than others holding their own in a fight.
You're irrational fear of PvP is based on badly implemented versions of it in other mmos in the past that were never designed for it. If you had any level of imagination you would realise that in some games PvP can work very well. This is the internet afterall and as games get better and people learn from the mistakes of the past, we will start seeing more scope for decent well thought out PvP systems.......so you had better get used to it......or be prepared to miss out on a lot of good games.
/hugs Neon for this post, forgiving him for his earlier (wrong!) one about music tastes!
I'm sure there will be others who agree with you, but hopefully they may actually try the game first before jumping to such conclusions.
Point well made, especially the CoH part. I sadly sank more than enough time into that game only to find myself flying around paragon City alone for an hour, and then logging off.
With that being said...
A general question, what became of the OP point? Is there or is there not still this aspect to the game? I have it half downloaded, and planned on finishing it up today on my lunch break... but is this forced open world PvP stuff still in it?
You can say "blah blah don't judge blah blah" but I've been playing these types of games since EQ, as I'm sure many people here have. And I know what I like. You just have to say PvP, and I don't want to try it. Period. PvP attracts hateful and malicious players. PvPers don't sit behind the computer going "Awesome, great fight!" There is no honor, fun, or healthy competition, it's all anger and desperation, which is mostly the fault of the devs because of the absurd rewards they grant to people who kill the most. But there are people that gravitate towards this mindset, and if they're going to be hiding in the bushes, 30 levels higher than me, while I try to mine in TCoS, then forget it, I'll be deleting it for sure.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.