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This is how endgame looks like without cash shop as a "free game"
bananajoe
Member Posts: 82
I found an interesting thread which tells the problems you will get if you just want to play this as a "free" mmorpg without investing any money into their ingame shop. Yes it is possible to play this game without money and lot of the people around will tell you this, but most dont know how the game looks like if you go this route. I only can advice to think about the class you choose if you dont want to invest any cash, some classes are heavily dependant on good gear. As a beginner you should know how long it would take to gain the same equipment like someone just buy from the cash shop.
I also did add some hints for gameplay to to this thread that beginners get important informations which you often dont read at the beginning.
This article describes some interesting aspects about the current state:
forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php
* Clean end-game gear costs $266.70US minimum
* Investment equals ~2 years playing a subscription-based game
* Farming enough daily tokens would take 165 days
* Some suggestions to lower cost without impacting Frogster's bottom line too much.
* 14 items to be upgraded with six desirable stats each.
* 1 weapon to be upgraded to Tier 8 using vendor-available fusion stones*
* 15 items to be refined to +6
* PvE server (no seals required)
* Original gear is "clean" of undesirable stats.
* Stats are obtained from looted items, no buying stats with diamonds.
* The items enchanted are the only ones the player will ever equip, he already has and/or will not upgrade to any epic gear from end-game instances.
* 6 Purified Fusion stones will be required for each item to obtain 6 desirable stats. (purified stones 2$ each)
* 6 stones x 14 slots = 84 purified stones. 55 diamonds per stone = 4620 diamonds.
* 8 arcane transmuter changes per item = 182 charges = 3360 daily tokens = 34 days of dailies OR 546 diamonds.
* Attaining Tier 8 requires 729 Fusion Stones, when buying random stones this equates to 1,093,500 gold.
* Combining all of said fusion stones uses 364 arcane transmuter charges, 10,920 daily tokens, 110 days of dailies or 1092 diamonds.
* With the shady practice of not documenting the effects of upgrade jewels, we are only left to guess as to their effectiveness. Based on purely subjective evidence of forum posts I'm making a conservative estimate of on average 20 jewels to reach +6. I will reduce this to 19 as it is practical to use vendor jewels to +1.
* 19 jewels x 15 slots = 285 jewels = 855 diamonds.
* Purified Fusion Stones: 4620 diamonds
* Arcane transmuter charges: 1638 diamonds**
* Refining jewels: 855 diamonds
* Total: 7113 diamonds
Another point to think about....:
Cost you can expect to pay in "real money": $266.70US, or around 2 years of subscribing to a P2P game.
Note this gears you for one function of one class. As a Knight/Rogue I can imagine wanting 3 sets:
Knight Tanking
Knight DPS/PvP
Rogue DPS
Extra bank/backpack space, permanent mounts, Exp/TP furniture, Transport Runes, Golden Hammers, Skill Books ... all of this must be paid.
Some more tricks n tipps about the game you dont read everywhere
Another personal hint about Diamonds:
Diamonds are the inofficial ingame currency for items not gold anymore i.e. buying items from other players. If you buy diamonds and you want to use it in the auction house for items and not for the ingame shop, you have to wait for 30 days at the moment and there is no notice about that. I heard they want to change this soon probably, but just that you know before you buy them.
If you love PvP and want to join PvP servers:
Be aware that if you get pk´ed that you could loose any hard earned random item you have equipped or in your backpack...it is also possible that higher lvl players with full equipped item shop gear milk other players due to the drop chance - lvl difference doesnt matter. The difference between pimped cash shop gear and normal one is significant. There are additional costs for seals on pvp servers which you dont need on the pve servers. Since there is not much endgame content, ganking/pking will happen of course so be prepared if you choose such a server, quality pvp doesnt exist except duels but you can find duels also on pve servers. PvP servers offer just ganking in comparison to the pve servers, nothing more. If you want to be a successfull pk ´er dont even think running around without full pimped out gear.
If you kill a "bad" player it counts aswell as PK with the common penalties and drop chances !
Best class for PK is probably a combo with one stealth class, since the more pk rep you gain the more people will hunt you of course. It is common that PK players prefer weaker players.
some rules which may sound funny but are unfortuantely reality...
- never do pvp with your main character otherwise you cant quest anymore due to penalties
- If you dont want to loose equipment: pvp nacked...alternative is only full pimped char with item shop gear, same counts for inventory
- If you want to start pvp on a pvp server, just start talking to any npc and maybe seconds later someone will stabb your back. Alternative, you look for an opponent which seems weaker and is not prepared for your attack.
There are no factions, RvR or Battlegrounds on any server.
Guild vs Guild:
There are some options which you should know.
- it is possible that opponents invite players from other guilds
- it is possible to leave the guild to avoid the war
- it is possible to hide in your house to avoid the war
- you can declare war on a guild even if the guild is in war already (which is an exploit currently)
- if you take part in a guild war the opponent can attack you without warnings
- if your guild just make one kill and logout you win the guild war
- when someones declares war on your guild and all your guild members logout, the other guild looses 200k due to 0:0 result.
.....well you see there are some issues here - thats about guild wars in this game currently.
Character- Skill Development:
You get talent points (TP) which you can invest into skills for each of your two classes. On average you can easily max 4 skills up to lvl 50, this seems first quiete nice but you have to know things about that.
- you dont have to plan how you skill your character for the endgame, but of course you should choose important ones first during lvl up.
- there are no individual skill distribution i.e. crowd control vs damage, you can be both depends which is your class combo.
- after you reached lvl 50 some kind of grindfest starts since you still can get talent points, which means the more you grind after you reached max lvl the more skills you can obtain. In other words, they did implement quests so you level up fast but the talent point grind is still a part of the game like known from other f2p/asian games. In other words the grind starts at endgame and not before, dont forget that you have to lvl up 2 classes in one character aswell collecting talent points for their individual skills later on. The arguement that this game is grindfree is not correct.
Stats distribution:
There is one major important stat in this game: Stamina - which benefits every class. You will find magic classes with almost similar hp like tanks, there are magic class combos out there with more than 10k+ hp.
Stats are influenced a lot by items, up to 60-70% later on, so dont expect that you get most stats+ just by leveling up, basic character stats doesnt mean that much.
Notes:
* Making a pure T8 weapon would cost $1,503.36 in Purified Fusion Stones alone.
** Discount this if you are willing to spent 165 days farming dailies...
Comments
I'd like to note that a t7 weapon takes 364 charges/fusion stones (and t3 items) A t8 takes 364x3 +3. And your figures didn't take into account that some stats will make a t4 mana stone with a purified fusion stone (even using a t3 item) so you would need several blank mana stones in order to transmute one of those stats onto gear. This means more Transmutor charges and more Purified stones. Also, to be competitive on the PvP server (where stuff can drop), you need to spend so much more.
That entire summary assumes you're buying everything with diamonds bought with real money. We all know that's not necessary, especailly since diamonds are available on the AH for gold and items you sell on the AH can be listed for diamonds. Not to mention the fact that they now offer many of the upgrade items for tokens as well.
So yeah, people should take this info with a grain of salt.
Well at least for the items to protect your gear which you dont want to loose.
There is just one important point, if you play on PvE servers you wont have such a big competition problem and most points i expirienced or read are about pvp servers.
You can get to lvl 50 without investing a cent into the shop system, you can see the whole game content and all dungeons without investing a dime. Yes, i think it is fair like you mentioned but its a bit different if you think about endgame on a pvp server.
There is just one important point, if you play on PvE servers you wont have such a big competition problem and most points i expirienced or read are about pvp servers.
You can get to lvl 50 without investing a cent into the shop system, you can see the whole game content and all dungeons without investing a dime. Yes, i think it is fair like you mentioned but its a bit different if you think about endgame on a pvp server.
I can definitely understand the PvP competition driving people to spend lots on the cash shop, but that was their choice. Personally I don't think the PvP in RoM is implemented very well so to me it's not worth it. To each his own though.
I'd agree, but it takes a max level, highly geared mage ~4 hours to make 1 million (when not selling mods/gear from places that need cash gear to farm anyway). That is 14 hours for 3.5 million. So 14 hours of grinding to make 100 diamonds (at the rate of 35,000 per diamond on the pvp server). Assume $5.50/hour after-tax wage at a fast food restaurant. 14 hours gives $82.50. So 2k diamonds out-of-game work, in the same time as 100 diamond in-game. The current diamond verification system makes it much more difficult to sell things for diamonds; I would say it occurs about 85-90% less now on the pvp server.
And the OP included that it takes over 100 days for enough to make just the 'standard' endgame weapon from tokens alone.
Well at least for the items to protect your gear which you dont want to loose.
Actually there is a mechanism so a player can use costume pieces in order to have no items at all drop even though the system was designed to only protect eight. Those players can then spend much more money to give them virtually as much defense and health as any in-game gear. I know a high cs rogue and a high cs priest that have as much hp as a moderate-high cs tank (tank is using modded in-game pieces). So, in order to be competitive, it takes a fair amount of money spent on pvp. I'm a warrior in chain armor and can fall to a priest if they put enough money into their gear.
I agree that pvp in RoM is very poorly implemented, and the servers/game engine can barely handle 20 people fighting in one spot. I would recommend the PvE servers for anyone who might want to join RoM.
Side Note: Don't post dissent on the RoM forums, you will get posts/topics deleted and get ban warnings, which result in a ban if the "warning tool" the gm's have set up to streamline the process is used on you too often. And the GM's don't appreciate refined wit or sarcasm.
Well at least for the items to protect your gear which you dont want to loose.
Actually there is a mechanism so a player can use costume pieces in order to have no items at all drop even though the system was designed to only protect eight. Those players can then spend much more money to give them virtually as much defense and health as any in-game gear. I know a high cs rogue and a high cs priest that have as much hp as a moderate-high cs tank (tank is using modded in-game pieces). So, in order to be competitive, it takes a fair amount of money spent on pvp. I'm a warrior in chain armor and can fall to a priest if they put enough money into their gear.
I agree that pvp in RoM is very poorly implemented, and the servers/game engine can barely handle 20 people fighting in one spot. I would recommend the PvE servers for anyone who might want to join RoM.
Side Note: Don't post dissent on the RoM forums, you will get posts/topics deleted and get ban warnings, which result in a ban if the "warning tool" the gm's have set up to streamline the process is used on you too often. And the GM's don't appreciate refined wit or sarcasm.
The official forums are full of complains no worry - well not just whining always. People who play on a pvp server notice a lot more how the game is broken in some important parts. But hey it is still fun and i dont count this game as a blockbuster with monthly fees and of course not everything has to be true what you read in forums some of the infos i did post included, but you read em and the answers.
As a rebuttal:
http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=13925
hes done all the math for you.
to upgrade your gear from farming dailies will take you 6 months.
thats for 1 set of gear.
if you want to play both classes, you need 2 sets of gear.
thats a year of farming dailies.
or you could spend around 550$ and get it now.
then if they raise the level cap you have to do it all over again.
bottom line = without spending money you cannot keep up at end game.
1 year of farming for what someone gets instantly for spending real money is not reasonable.
I'm sorry, but I've only been playing for 3 months and all of my gear is maxed. I haven't spent more than $50 on my current gear in total.
The problem with these unrealistic calculations is that you're assuming that you never get any good drops -- drops that you can sell for diamonds (yes, it's still possible!), or, in the worst case, trade for other stats on pures. Similarly, you can easily farm charges to make weapon T7/T8s; it takes about a day of grinding at most. I mean, if you have the money to buy charges straight off the CS, then the more power to you, but it's a huge waste of money when there's a much easier alternative.
Although I will agree that it is a bit more difficult now with the diamond wait fiasco, it was extremely easy to accumulate a ton of diamonds just a month ago. Getting 3-4 Endurance Vs off of Windwild per day was a normal occurrence (using ancient treasure keys, which, coincidentally, you buy by using income from previous Endurance V sales). MA stats -- clean Illumine Vs, Mind Vs, etcetera routinely sold for 200-500 diamonds; dirties for 80-120.
Zarth
Artemis - Notorious
Tankless & Mageless Kalin Two-man Full Run:
http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=14785
Last edited by akwok; Yesterday at 02:38 PM.
~Ripper
Agreed. People shoudl also realize that since about 1 in 7 players actually pays in these F2P games, the money they will rake in from those players is bound to be higher than a year ofmonthly subs.
None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Funny thing is that all you need for endgame, especially for magic classes, is a t7 2h weapon and pimped gear with stamina. All those armor stats dont work since skill damage hits like you would be nacked. And the most wired bug i noticed are healing rogues which are more powerfull than priests...
35,000 gold per diamond? On my server they are about 8,000. I don't know what economy this guys is basing his numbers on but I sure haven't seen anything like it.
Agreed. People shoudl also realize that since about 1 in 7 players actually pays in these F2P games, the money they will rake in from those players is bound to be higher than a year ofmonthly subs.
None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.
Not trying to argue with you LynxJSA, but where did you get those numbers from," since about 1 in 7 players pays in these F2P games," are they just off the top of your head, or do you have a source or link?
It's ok if it was just off of the top of your head sort of fact, I was just wondering.
Agreed. People shoudl also realize that since about 1 in 7 players actually pays in these F2P games, the money they will rake in from those players is bound to be higher than a year ofmonthly subs.
None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.
Not trying to argue with you LynxJSA, but where did you get those numbers from," since about 1 in 7 players pays in these F2P games," are they just off the top of your head, or do you have a source or link?
It's ok if it was just off of the top of your head sort of fact, I was just wondering.
I think it was Bob Ferrari of Sanrio Digital that I got it from. It was brought up in a recent conference on business in gaming that about 15% of the playerbase in an F2P MMO monetizes the game.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Agreed. People shoudl also realize that since about 1 in 7 players actually pays in these F2P games, the money they will rake in from those players is bound to be higher than a year ofmonthly subs.
None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.
Not trying to argue with you LynxJSA, but where did you get those numbers from," since about 1 in 7 players pays in these F2P games," are they just off the top of your head, or do you have a source or link?
It's ok if it was just off of the top of your head sort of fact, I was just wondering.
I think it was Bob Ferrari of Sanrio Digital that I got it from. It was brought up in a recent conference on business in gaming that about 15% of the playerbase in an F2P MMO monetizes the game.
You wouldn't have a link would you, sounds intresting, wouldn't mind having a read it, cheer's.
I don't believe anyone has done a transcript of the conference. BUT....
Since you were interested in more information I went poking around the intarwebz for you and found this:
"Where the free-to-play model will encounter difficulty in outperforming WoW is in monetizing individual users efficiently. WoW earns money off of each subscribed player, while a player in a free-to-play game frequently doesn't need to spend money to advance. Right now 50% of all players who engage in online games play only free games, but the free-to-play space is still only generating 15% of the industry's overall revenue. That's because only 5 to 15% of all free-to-play gamers actually opt to spend any money per month on premium virtual goods or currency. Cai estimates that the minority who do opt to spend on a game spend, on average, between $10 to $30 per month."
Source: Article @ Virtual Goods News site
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
thanks bananajoe fo posting this, after reading your post and all the arguments posted against you, I've determined it's not worth it. thanks for saving me time. Peace!
Thank you for posting this. I cancelled my download on time
Eaglix
I'm not sure how you worked that out. I thought the OP's argument was successfully countered. He either chose to ignore the diamonds you get in game or didn't know what he was talking about. Just another anti-f2p game exaggeration if you ask me. Most people play these games without spending much money, and you can enjoy the games to a fair degree without spending anything.
What is countered, if you want to compete it takes insane long times if you dont exploit the whole game system especially on a pvp server. But the pvp system is so harsh to newcomers or to f2p gamers that most will quit and change to pve servers cause they just get farmed from pkers.
There are some tricks which players use to be competetive in less time and without investing money, but you need still lots of time and a good pc system.
You just farm phirius tokens with twinks and you use your twinks for transmutor charges. For t6 you need 36twinks around, each twink has 10 charges if i remember correct. And if you have loads of twinks you can farm probably 5000 phirius tokens a day for upgrade jewels..you just send the item from one character to the next and upgrade your stuff. They run 5-6 accounts on one pc and start botting daily quest items each day for their 40+ twinks. This is how hardcore players beat the game without investing money, except those who really pay for it but if you are a regular player with one account it would take forever if you dont invest money or trick the system.
But honestly, this is just too time consuming and not my playstyle, i did quit anway since there is not much pvp endgame left and class balance/bugs issues are just too much, the pvp server i was on for example is quiete empty already and the pimped players just dont find any opponents except ganking everyone since they are all in guilds. Red players dont drop anything with the help of the item shop protection and they just farm such who dont have that, dont bother to do pvp without pimped gear the power difference is just insane and they 1-3 shot you. If you like only PvE there seems to be no problems, except you need probably pimped gear for the most difficult high end dungeons to get a spot in any raid/party and for guild wars.
I dont want to stop people from trying out the game the intention of the thread is just to give infos what you can expect as a f2p gamer without investing money, just do your own expirience maybe you love it who knows.
To me this is more of an issue with the weak state of PvP in RoM than how costly it is for end-game. Personally I get my PvP fix elsewhere as historically MMORPG PvP isn't done very well (the code tries to level the playing field between the skilled and the non-skilled too much IMO).
Back on topic... sure it takes a very long time to max out your character if you don't want to spend an insane amount of cash to do it overnight... and that's exactly how it should be. If you want to be "done" with the game in a matter of weeks, then by all means open your wallet and voila, instant maxed-out-done-with-the-game character. Is that the point though? To max out as fast as humanly possible? If that's what you think, then I believe you've missed what an MMORPG is all about. I'm personally thankful that it does take a long time so I'm not stuck with nothing more to shoot for other than rerolling and starting the process all over.
One reason that it takes so long is that you need to be in a group of decently CS'd players to get your gear. You can farm MA with a group wearing mostly unmodded armor and decent weapons, but Cyclops calls for tanks and healers with some good mods. A cyclops run without modded gear can go over about as well as an Abby run at level 22: possible but slow and painful.
Well, the devs wants to get money, as the devs of any game. Im am not surprised that it takes long time if you actually play it without buying stuff.
The time calculations do sound a bit to high, with some good drops you should be able to get the gear for half the price in cceptable time. But still, don't expect to be good and think that it will be cheaper than in a P2P game.
One reason that it takes so long is that you need to be in a group of decently CS'd players to get your gear. You can farm MA with a group wearing mostly unmodded armor and decent weapons, but Cyclops calls for tanks and healers with some good mods. A cyclops run without modded gear can go over about as well as an Abby run at level 22: possible but slow and painful.
So you mod your AH/quest gear to start farming MA, then mod the MA gear to start farming Cyclops. Sounds like the same normal progression you have in any other MMORPG to me. Sure it takes awhile to do that, but I remember having to farm Kara in WoW for weeks before we had the gear to move on to Gruul, and then doing Gruul for several more weeks before moving on to the other 25-mans. I don't see any difference between this and a P2P.
Agreed. People shoudl also realize that since about 1 in 7 players actually pays in these F2P games, the money they will rake in from those players is bound to be higher than a year ofmonthly subs.
None of this should come as a surprise to anyone.
Pretty much sums it up.