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Mages badly nerfed... discuss
Ravenswing
Member Posts: 23
It's my understanding (from reading the WoW forums) that Mages have been badly nerfed from the various betas through to retail. To the point, now, where almost any class can out compete a mage in any combat situation.
I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of those assembled here.
Comments
OK BEFORE this was what was wrong:
1. Mages could transport instantly ANYWHERE, this eliminated travelling times by 5-10mins. So they could port back to the auction house instantly.
2. They can make their own food, so therefore replenishing their hp/mana for 10 seconds of downtime
3. They are one of the highest DPS classes anywhere
4. They are the only class i know of which has crowd control spells... Frost nova (freezes the enemy), Polymorph(for 20 odd seconds one enemy is a sheep and wont attack u... very good in instances).
5. They can solo very well... only problem is they need to expend nearly all their mana on one enemy, still they have many crowd control spells to make running away an option.
Basically only problem with mage is that they have minimal health so in duels find it hard if they get hit melee.
I really find it annoying people whining about a certain class being gimped. Perhaps they should try playing a Warrior who generally is one of the most gimped classes out there.
ANd ya shaman is overpowered, paladin is maybe slightly overpowered.
But just to remind you:
mage:
-Can teleport instantly
- Can make its own food
- Can do ALOT of damage
- Has crowd control spells
- Has minimal HP
Thats all.... you want maximum hps as well now then?
At one point Mages where THE best class to lvl with. At least now with the reagent requirememnts they cant be zipping all over the place without some penalty. later on the travelling time thing is one of the larger downtimes for most characters.
PVE mages rule.
PVP shamans beat mages ALL the time, Hunters can too. Warriors DIe to mages, Paladins can beat mages too, Rogues have a little harder time, Druids usually die.
The thing with mages is... it requires Tactics and intellect to play them well in pvp. it doesn't require intellect or tactics to play PVE. When they people whining about them start pvping they dont use the right skills.
Let me give you this as an example: I was level 31 rogue, and a lvl 24 mage was basically Stopping me from killing him while slowly but surely taking away my hitpoints. (of course he did have a lvl 25 pala with him but nonetheless). Basically he was using frost nova, polymorph and the mage teleport spell to basically get out of my way.
I suppose there always be somebody wanting a class to be better :P.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
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http://www.clanlaw.tk
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Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."
My mage has no problems at all, in fact, I am quite pleased with his ability to deal out A LOT of damage. In my groups, the tank hits it once or twice before I have it dead. You get spells for crowd control as well. I don't see them as underrpowered, unless you mean that they can't take hits at all. From my experiences in most games, the mage/wizard/sage classes never can take hits.
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Fuego
Level 18 Gnomish Mage
Silvermoon server
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Fuego
Level 21 Gnomish Mage
Casador
Level 19 Night Elf Hunter
Silvermoon server
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uh - omg I've seen mages solo'n all over the place what are you talkin bout?!?! This ain't EQ where they are on a constant nerf trip...
Mentat
27 Orc Hunter skinner/miner
I hate general "Buff MY class" posts... But when its taken completly from fantasy and dellusion, then its really bad.
Wins "Most stupid"
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Okay, I wish to award the prise for "People Least Likely to Read a Post Properly" to most of those who have replied so far. Most, not all.
I'd have thought the "I understand that" would have tipped you off, but apparently not. I'm in the UK. I'd have had to order the game online from the US to play it, and I haven't. I'm therefore not "asking for my class to be buffed" or any similar idea, and if I was, I wouldn't be doing it hear because you lot aren't going to get mages buffed up, are you?
Point is, I like playing mages. I like the look of WoW. I like the systems as far as I've been able to research them. I really quite liked the idea of playing the game. Then I read that mages are underpowered and that the community consists of overhormonal teenagers. So, I come to this place and ask about the mages, because a second viewpoint is always useful. So far, it would seem that the view here is that mages aren't underpowered, but several of the responses indicate that the community does consist of overhormonal teenagers (even when their chronological age exceeds 30).
Let's try to be more specific. The complaint I read was that mages suck in group situations and at higher levels. The damage rate tails off above level 20 to the point where combat classes can deal out at least as much damage as a mage, probably more. Since mages suffer from recharge time and the problems of mana drain, they can get off one, maybe two damage spells while the rest of the party is carving through the monsters like butter. This makes the mages feel pretty useless since everyone then has to wait about while the drink lots of water before the next monster can be pulled in.
Yes, mages have crowd control spells, but just imagine how much fun you'd have if about the only thing you could do was turn the odd target into a sheep.
Finally, the way the magic resistance system works (I'm vague on this), at higher levels you end up being unable to actually affect anything because they just resist the spells. I think this means that if the difference in levels between caster and target is greater than one or two, the target will resist 90% of the time, but that wasn't well explained since this was on the Blizzard forums and they were obviously talking to other players (you can't post there unless you are a player AFAIK).
Thanks to those giving intelligent replies. Please provide more of the same.
NO....
Mages are not nerfed. they are balanced well in my opinion. The people who have chosen to play a mage have basially chosen damage output over general survivability. The best thing to do as a mage is to be an herbalist/alchemist and make potions that will prolong your life in a situation where you are pitted against melee types.
As for being overpowered I dont really think so. As a rogue I have abilities that will keep a mage from casting (kick) so if I can get the drop on them (stealth) they wont live long.
"When You Earnestly Believe You Can Compensate For A Lack Of Skill By Doubling Your Efforts, There's No End To What You Can't Do."
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
As far as the end game and higher levels go, I have no idea. You could be right. I know that some mobs will resist a certain type of magic, but be less resistant to another. Well, this is my experience so far. All I know is that this is the ONLY game where I have actually played the "mage" class and actually liked it. So if you really dig the class, I am sure you will love it. It's not only mages that sit and drink water, it is the priests too. Yes, the priest is more "vital" , but since you summon the majority of the mana juice he/she drinks you are an asset as well. Also, adds in WoW are quite often, so crowd control is essential. All in all from my experience mages are as useful to groups as any other class. I can't say much on PvP since I play on a normal server. I hope that if you decide to play a mage, that you have as much fun as I am having. Good luck to you .
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Fuego
Level 18 Gnomish Mage
Silvermoon server
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Fuego
Level 21 Gnomish Mage
Casador
Level 19 Night Elf Hunter
Silvermoon server
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Doesn't mana shield absorb melee damage? Does it not absorb kicks? I am just curious.
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Fuego
Level 18 Gnomish Mage
Silvermoon server
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Fuego
Level 21 Gnomish Mage
Casador
Level 19 Night Elf Hunter
Silvermoon server
____________________________
Just chiming in.
From what i read a month or so ago, many complained about MAGES being nerfed when their talents, which only they and warriors had at the time, so that mages could be on par with all the other classes without talents, which led many to believe that they indeed were nerfed and are sub-par due to an imbalancing issue caused in beta.
I honestly do not know if this is, or is not true, but it would be interesting to see.
If all damage gets absorbed by a shield, the spell break should still continue.
Cheers,
Nash
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Geez... how fair is it for a freaking mage to FREEZE you still, then start shooting tones of magic at you and watch you die, unable to move cause you're frozen to the ground?
I'm a priest, I PVPed my friend mage just to see. Damn loser froze me, then started firing every second these blasts as I watch my Health go down. I could do nothing. Every spell I casted ended up being delayed to the point they got interupted and I just die.
Not very fair. And I don't have any shield magics to protect myself against Mage's magic... I can kill a warrior with my eyes closed thanks to all my Melee Protective spells... but magic? Hell no.
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Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
If you think it's unfair a mage can freeze you're priest, then it's also unfair you're priest can cast meele protection spells against warriors.
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"Flamers, beware! when you leave this earth, there is a very special place reserved for you down below with romantic bonefires scourching you bones!"
"I have no prejudices, I hate everyone equally regardless of race or religion"
"Been there, done that!"
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"Flamers, beware! when you leave this earth, there is a very special place reserved for you down below with romantic bonefires scourching you bones!"
"I have no prejudices, I hate everyone equally regardless of race or religion"
"Been there, done that!"
PaganChild,
Thanks, you've restored my faith in the under-25s. Constructive discussion.
More please, particularly from higher level mages who may have more experience of group play above level 20.
Thanks!
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Fuego
Level 18 Gnomish Mage
Silvermoon server
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Fuego
Level 21 Gnomish Mage
Casador
Level 19 Night Elf Hunter
Silvermoon server
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Johnark, you must have been a couple lvl's below him. Our frost nova will only last 8 seconds at MAX, and they rarely stay frozen. I can only get one fireball off when I have some caught in frost nova. Then it breaks and they are after me stunning me, w/e and I am no longer able to cast.
Why do people get so upset about teleportation? Thats one of the unique features of the mage. I am lvl 36 mage in game and I have yet to use my teleportation because I am not wasting 9s when I have a hearthstone. If I want to teleport I hearthstone then take the tram/gryffon. I would be willing to sacrice 5 mins for 9s. I dont see why people get so upset that we can move around easily.
Right now the only thing that upsets me is the mobs 3 lvl's above me. Every1 can solo 3lvl's above them, but I have the hardest time because of resists. I do not know if mages are nerfed, but in beta they were much stronger, and they have taken a beating by the nerf stick, for better or worse I do not know, but I still love my mage
I too have noticed that if a mob is a few levels higher, they resist me like crazy, yet my pally friend can solo lvl 18 mobs at lvl 14. I guess that is because they can heal and stun. Don't get me wrong, I love the mage class, but I have noticed the resists are there. It's the resists that will get me slaughtered every time. That is why I never try to solo any mobs that are more than 2 levels above me. Maybe I am not doing something right, but it just seems that I die when I do try to take a mob 3 or more levels above me.
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Fuego
Level 18 Gnomish Mage
Silvermoon server
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Fuego
Level 21 Gnomish Mage
Casador
Level 19 Night Elf Hunter
Silvermoon server
____________________________
j-monster, you don't say what level you are, however, I'd point out that you survived repeated frost novas and all the mage could throw at you and then killed him in one blow. If you honestly believe that that makes mages well balanced against rogues, you have an odd concept of balance.
That said, assuming I have the money when the game finally goes retail in the UK, I'm probably going to pick up a copy and try it out. And I will play a mage, almost certainly human. The result of this could be to turn me off MMORPGs for life as rumour has it that all the 13-year-old l337 merchants play humans and night elves. However, I'll join an RP server and hope that WoW turns out to be a good game.
Thanks for the help to those who gave help, and any more comments will be appreciated provided they actually impart information.
i was a lvl 31 rogue and a lvl 20 mage had enough 'tactics' and skill to keep away from me ... period.
For 5 minutes it was trying to blast me... i had too much hps BUT my rogue using all my skills couldn't get near.
Basically theres bad mage player and good mage players. In PVP with tactics nobody can touch them
I mean christ lvl 20 mage va lvl 31 rogue and i couldnt actually catch up to it to hit it once. (alright i stunned it once but it managed to stay alive somehow).
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
j-monster, Below is the text of your post...
"there not nerfed. I was fighting one with my lvl 22 rogue and he kept using frost nova on be and beating me up with his spells and crap and ic ouldent even get near. So im just like bitch! so i used Vanish got out of his frost nova thing he had no idea what happend because i or anyone else had never used vanish on him before. So i got behind him ambushed gouge sinister strike Evic ..dead. Mages are really well balanced in my opinoin."
I agree, I misread, you did say what level you were. You didn't say what level he was. You certainly didn't say what level difference there was. Which presumably means you didn't read your own post. Though perhaps the problem is that you can't read your own post; on re-reading it, I know I had trouble working it out. The reason I thought you took him out in one hit is that your english is sufficiently bad that I didn't realise "ambushed gouge sinster strike Evic" was multiple attacks. Kindly remember that I haven't played the game, I'm trying to find out about it. I don't know all the special moves available to a Rogue, and I don't know how they can be combined, if at all. Since your reaction to ignorance of something I have no means of knowing is to be rude in bad english, perhaps you can understand why the prospect of playing a Blizzard MMO is something I'm approaching carefully? No, you probably don't.
j-monster, Below is the text of your post...
"there not nerfed. I was fighting one with my lvl 22 rogue and he kept using frost nova on be and beating me up with his spells and crap and ic ouldent even get near. So im just like bitch! so i used Vanish got out of his frost nova thing he had no idea what happend because i or anyone else had never used vanish on him before. So i got behind him ambushed gouge sinister strike Evic ..dead. Mages are really well balanced in my opinoin."
I agree, I misread, you did say what level you were. You didn't say what level he was. You certainly didn't say what level difference there was. Which presumably means you didn't read your own post. Though perhaps the problem is that you can't read your own post; on re-reading it, I know I had trouble working it out. The reason I thought you took him out in one hit is that your english is sufficiently bad that I didn't realise "ambushed gouge sinster strike Evic" was multiple attacks. Kindly remember that I haven't played the game, I'm trying to find out about it. I don't know all the special moves available to a Rogue, and I don't know how they can be combined, if at all. Since your reaction to ignorance of something I have no means of knowing is to be rude in bad english, perhaps you can understand why the prospect of playing a Blizzard MMO is something I'm approaching carefully? No, you probably don't.
Once again your reading skills leave something to be desired. Look at my second post i clearly pointed out he was 2 levels below me. But since your either a.) a flat out idiot or b.) dyslexic i suppose you dident read that either. As for proper english this is an online forum not a term paper get over it. also Dont bitch at me because you dont know what a rogues moves are. It wasent just directed at you (my first post that is) it was a general statement saying that it takes some strategy to kill a mage. Honestly ill say it again READ before you made an ass out of yourself. oh and P.S dont take that condisending tone with me you Quasi-intelligentl toad.
Using your second post to justify your first post, doesn't help, mate. You didn't provide the information you say you did, get over it. And insults are the last resort of people with no debating skills.
I see this thread has stalled, so, bye, j-monster, it wasn't nice meeting you.