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Just a Small Rant!
Pangaea
Member Posts: 434
If you do not with to read a Rant about some thing I read and experienced lately that rubs me the wrong way, and or makes no sense; close this thread now.
Player cheating in MMOS. I am not talking about duplicating money, making imballanced weapons or anythign like that.
Lets say speed hacking, or exploiting bugs that will help him progress FASTER then Your character.
I just hate listening to WHINERS that say "I HAVE TO WORK HARD, AND HE GETS IT EASY" .
Let me ask you this.
Does another player in the game "power leveling" effect your GAME PLAY AT ALL. If all he is doing is ruining the game for himself (in your opinion) How does that effect your characters OWN PATH, or GOALS< or GAME PLAY?
I think the whiners in that situation are people who are too competative, and think that there is this RACE to the highest level and "so and so" is getting there faster and easier.
Who cares? Cause honestly. Him power leveling or NOT powerleveling is NOT going to hinder or advance your character any more then it is.
I understand if your character is directly effected by this. But in most cases it is just usless whining.
Another thing.
RP server. I am glad that there are RP servers. Anything to encourage the mmoRPg, to actually make use of that RP letters.
If you get INTO the game, and let yourself be obsorbed into the logic of the Fantasy World. (and yes Fantasy worlds should be bound by some logic, and thier own rules) You will feel like your character, act a certain way, Speak IN CHARACTER 98% of the time, and not talk about The election or your sister getting a new car 
Yet people bitch about how other steal kill.
Bitching about kill stealing is the least "Role Play" attitude you can have.
Your race is at war with ORCS, you are fighitng one, a fellow brother comes to aid, and you say "HEY MAN QUIT STEALING MY KILL" Umm. in a deperate war between races and cultures, this is totally OUT OF CHARACTER.
I think I spent too much time in actual ROLE PLAYING games to appreciate the other ARCADE Style of play that most MMO players have on here.
Ohh well.
Rant over.
Comments
point 1:
How about this: a guy makes money in his cellar and uses them to buy all sorts of goods. He do not hurt anybody (but the economy maybe) makes a lot of people happy as he gives them lot of money and never hurt a fly.
Would you be angry at this guy? Following your logic, nope, you won't as he is not affecting you at all.
Everythign affects you or your character. Maybe not directly but indirectly it will.
Let's take the example of the speedhacking you named, let's pretend the developer do nothing to stop it and is a relativly easy program to use. If this would be the case everybody would start using it and you, that plays by the non-enforced rules, are left out. Who wants a tank/healer/nuker that can go only 1/10 as fast as the rest of the group? No one.
Who wants the tank with the filmsy ruined leather armor instead of the tank with the shiny mithral plate that he bought thanks to the money of a cheat? no one.
So, yeah. Cheat affects me, even if there is no direct competition between me and "them", they will always affect me/the community/the game.
point 2:you have a point here, one on wich i do not have a easy counterpoint but human nature.
Human(oid) nature implies possession. Even of things that, by no means, are "yours". You are fighting the big bad ork king, it is a challenge but your group is doing ok so far, there comes charging this other group that blast away everything in sight, loot the coffins of the king and comes to you saying
"you do not have to thank me, dear sire, we saved you just for a sense of kinship and kindness, be more careful the next time, ok? we Royal guards cannot be always around looking after adventurers"
In P&P games, this almost never happens. It is used by GM as a tool for dramatic scenes (and to make you hate that upstart son of a ....), but still all the focus is on your party, your group.
In mmorpgs it would happen all the time. Your group is nobody special, is just one of the many. So people react badly when others intervene in "their" scene, in "their" moment of (imagined) glory.
But, seriously, in such a situation what would be the best course of actions? Well, i would answer in two ways: A) if the group is in evident need of help, then i would charge to the rescue,
if they are holding their own i would send a messenger or shout to them if they mind my intrusion. Why? well, i am ignorant of the facts. Maybe that ork they are not attacking is a polymorphed princess or a friend of theirs. Or maybe this is all part of a bigger plan and they have a very precise goal in mind. Charging mindlessy to the rescue might foil completely this organized plan and put in jeopardy lifes and resources that were about to be saved.
Have a nice day.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Or how bout this...
With that good guy who he/she haves he/she can help the n00b character when its stuck...
And the high level isnt the end fo the game... lets take axample AO: shadow lands...
When you are lvl 200 you got to do 20 lvls more in shadow land and after that you can kill with a big group a big dragon there... but yes, you speak true when the guy grows lvls and grows and grows its fun to lvl it up too... REAL PLAYERS DONT CHEAT.
another point to speedhacking and using bots to advance more quickly, as the second poster has valid points there is also another point. For most games have PvP to switch between. So I like PvP and don't want to miss it, but don't want to do it all time and mostly only in RP situation.
Let say you play the fair way and the other play with bot and get higher level way to fast then predicted you don't have any chance to beat him in the most games when the level difference is to high. A good example is AC2, the end game is kingdom v kingdom. But with all the high levels a starter character isn't of any use there, he will be dead before it starts so you are forced to powerlevel is you want to join in the defence of your kingdom.
And real good RP don't use spoilers and hope the extended ruleset for RP servers will be enforced and that the GM are more online then the other servers. It is realy hard to classify roleplay as roleplay or not. I can play a realy bastard and attack everything on sight, this also include killstealing. (PS: don't like that style, only as example) Or you hate some creatures more then others and go beserk, what is a possible setup. Once played a crazy fool in AC2 that didn't want to harm Shreth and walked up to them just to pat them on the head (mostly it went out the wrong way around
) All above are good roleplay examples, not the most wanted by the community I have to say, but valid. So the community has to react on a RP basis by putting in embargos to the player that playes that way. Normally XP isn't the thing for a good RP it is the fun to play in char. So if someone calls: 'HEY DUDE STOP STEALING MY MOB' should just be gone and move to a non RP server. What you can do is after the fight start aguing why he came to your help like saying: 'what did you think you where doing? I had everything under control.' Just play it out that you didn't like what he did, don't start shouting or whining that he has stolen your kill.
You will find me on a RP server where you can, and hope that the non RP will get banned or kicked out, but as stated above unwanted stuff can also be roleplayed and should be taken care of on a roleplay basis.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
But it doens't
not in this case.
NO speed hacking will ruin a economy, and no power leveling will effect your character directly or indirectly.. if he is in your group and he is leveling 3 times as fast.. then do what you would do with any other higher level character.. kick him out.
what is the difference between that and someone else that is 3 levels hiegher then you that wants in your group. ..weather he was in there before or not.
Hie speed of PRogression should never interfier with your progression.. EVER
Unless you want it too.
And your Speek hacking expample is weak. you are saying that everyone uses it but ME. That would mean everyone else is the norm and I would be considered GIMPED. In wich case it is ME VS the ENTIRE MMO. That is not accurate at all.
People use the power level speed hack tthat want to get frmo Point A to Point B as fast as possible.. How that has anythgin to do with you or your gaming experience is non exsistent.
And no matter how you word it....it all comes down to competition. You dont' think it is "FAIR"
Yoru like the people in lunch line complaining that the person in front of you took more food that he is supposed to. If the Food never runs out, how is he doing anyone harm? Is it because you didn't get as much food? or he is cheating?
It comes down to your character, playing in a world where YOU can control your descision and interactions.. you never have to deal with anyone you dont' want too and you don't have to cheat if your don't want too. if you play the game 1 year, and in that year 20% of the community cheats.. how is that effecting you.. You will always find someone that isn't, you will always find someone your level, you will always have options besides them.
good luck with you future speed hacking games, just the opinion of the most good players are that cheaters are lame, and they can destroy the game. Oh and if I may know what games you play with server and name you will be the first to make it on my ignore list.
And there is always influence on your char if there is a player driven economie, and these times the most MMORPGS has that. Nice try though to convince people to use speed hacks and make all games like just running bots and no people in it.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
Speed hacks, afk bots, even ebay all effect every player, when some individuals are able to exploit and earn vastly more game currency it skews the economy, a few players can outbid everyone else, and raises the cost of all items not sold by vendors.
They also cause problems with PvP as the others have posted, it seems many of the same people that like to hack and play PvP also like to harrass lower level players, again reducing anothers game experience.
Current'ly I don't even play WOW or any subscribed MMO.
So I am NOT a cheater. I just dont' think that Speed LEVELing will effect me.. and until you can tell me specifically how it can effect you I still wont buy it.. the comment "They are always lame" doens't cut it.
Again.. I exluded "dupping money" or anythgin that would effect MONITARY influence.
I am talking abotu 100% LEVELING
agian it does not effect you.
if SOMEONE getting to level 1-60 in 1 day effects you please tell me how.
-Damian-
-Mechanical Fury-
"No World For The Powerless"
Check out my music:
www.myspace.com/MechanicalFury
(Solo Project Industrial Dark DnB)
www.myspace.com/AbstractSerialKillers
(Experimental Side Project)
-Damian-
-Mechanical Fury-
"No World For The Powerless"
Check out my music:
www.myspace.com/MechanicalFury
(Solo Project Industrial Dark DnB)
www.myspace.com/AbstractSerialKillers
(Experimental Side Project)
It doesn't affect everyone at first. First it will affect a few people. That power-leveler or exploiter will show off his new high level char. Kill a whole bunch of newbies, slowing down their gameplay. The exploit will be thought to a few more people, they do the same. And until it's discovered and those @sses are banned, some people are affected, then they come to the forums and they are the ones complaining that they are having a hard time no thanks to exploiters.
And why do people come and complain in the forums? Cause there's no where else to get help. You can send tones of tickets to any CSRs in any MMORPG, they never care or only reply 24-48 hours later. And what's the best way to get the CSR's attention? Start a petition, get lots of people to support you and show to the company that they have to do something about the game.
Hey, what can I do? I work for a computer store, I know that if you can't offer a great service, people will come back whinning and b1tching nonstop at you until something is done. Let them rot and they will go to the news paper or shows on TV, say how bad your store is, and your reputation goes down.
I mean look at Star Wars Galaxies, you got tones of people in other forums, not just mmorpg.com asking if they should play SWG. If SOE offered an amazing service and better game, you wouldn't have dozens of people telling that newbie to stay away from SWG.
So far the speedhack has been taken care of, you don't see dozens or hundreds of people telling newbies to stay away from WoW because a few people managed to find 1 cheat. cause Blizzard fixed it quickly, they are smart, they've saved their reputation. I wish more companies were like this...
___________ ___ __ _ _ _
Stealth - Ambush - Hemorrhage - Sinister Strike x2 - Cold Blood - Eviscerate - Vanish - Preparation - Cold Blood - Ambush - ... you're dead! :P
Again.. I exluded "dupping money" or anythgin that would effect MONITARY influence.
I am talking abotu 100% LEVELING
agian it does not effect you.
if SOMEONE getting to level 1-60 in 1 day effects you please tell me how.
Well, people being able to easily reach high levels and get more money quickly will affect the game.
Bottingspeedhackingetc can n WILL ruin the economy, which DIRECTLY affects you. No matter wat game, as long as the economy is mostly player run (in which game is it not?).
Anything that gives a group of players an unfair advantage over the rest, however small it may be, will mean that they will be: higher lvl (able to hunt high lvl mobs for high lvl drops, most likely selling them to NPC becuz they have so many, which is pouring money into the economy which shouldnt be there, which causes INFLATION), higher crafts (same reasons as higher lvl), ability to huntcraftskilltrade 247 (same reasons as higher lvl).
If this is not fixed, the economy will be overrun by these players, n it will be almost average to either use hacks, or buy ingame money on ebay. If these things happen, it *WILL* affect you. N then youll be here, complaining abt how the 100k you saved up for ever n ever is no longer enuff to buy a lvl 10 sword.
[quote]Originally posted by TaskyZZ
Well, people being able to easily reach high levels and get more money quickly will affect the game.
[/b][/quote]
How?
More money quickly? To buy the more expensive stuff more quickly?
So you are saying that high level people killing low level people is effected by speed leveling?
Sounds like a MMO that allows PVP amonst any Level of people wich is a problem with the MMO.
How can you say Power Levelers are the only ones that PVP lower level people.
Give the game 3-4 monthes when there is ALOT of level 60s including the cheaters. and how can you determine wich ones were or weren't?
And
Trust me.. non cheaters PVP lower level guys all the time. Dont' stray off the topic. We are talking.. Power Leveling and how it affects you? NOT what they do once they get to level 60.. cause ANYONE can do that at level 60! naturally or not.
See.. They are not creating money that wasn't there?
Them getting it faster doens't make ir more then anyone else in teh game.
if it took me 2 monthes to get to level 60 and I accumilated a TOTAL of 10,000 gold (example)
And it took someone else 2 weeks to get to level 60 and accumilate a TOTAL of 10,000 gold.
How is that any different. The money is the same Per level, they can only spend it on what ever other level 60 people spend things on. And it scales on the way up.
How is that bringing more money into the economy that wasn't there before.
Lets jump ahead 2 years.
and you have a GAME that has majority of higher level than none. Dont' you think THAT would ruin the economy in your eyes?
If the game is level based.. it should be scaled and balanced as you go through the levels, no mater what.
You can't blame Pkers and high vs low with just cehaters.. lagit players do it everywhere else.
Have you ever played an MMORPG for a long period of time to high levels?
The economy changes as more and more players get to higher levels. If one guy can get money 3x as fast as you, then he has more money to throw at buying items. So, in turn, those items cost a lot more money because there are players willing to pay a higher price. This in turn makes it much more harder for you, the non-cheater, to get enough money to buy the item.
Do you not see this? It is a simple concept to understand.
This happens on servers where there is no cheating at all. so you can not blame inflation on power leveling.
Look at Everquest. and other games with jacked up economy. it had nothign to do with speed leveling.
Anyone with TIME on thier hands and any high level Game where most players are high level will force econemy jump.
so yes.. your point is rather weak.
its ok to sport about getting to a level within a group of friends/guildies etc, but I assure u if u want to achieve stuff on big scale u'll experience a lot of frustration
and we both know cheating will live on till the day that it goes down together with the whole gaming aspect (wich I dont see hapenning LOL, its been here for centuries, if not milleniums
)
All you're doing is making a case for people to condone leveling bugs/hacks.
If it were actually fun to play MMO's this wouldn't be a problem. The exploiter would be cheating him/herself of the experience.
However, in most current MMO's, the fun comes from achievements... as in achieving levels and loot. So of course, someone would be jealous/annoyed that the cheater is advancing unnaturally fast. It makes their own achievements look like nothing. If you were an average person working really really hard to earn money for a decent car... then one day you come across this flashy guy who's bragging about how he exploited some legal loophole to get himself a ferrari effortlessly, wouldn't you be annoyed at this person?
This is why i don't play current mmo's. They're nothing more than one big rat race. But at the same time, its unfair to those who play honestly, to have to see cheaters blow by with their exploits.
I WANT GUILDWARS
i think speedhacking should be allowed if the guy works hard making the speedhack himself
|-|-|Life Is What YOU Make It|-|-|
|-|-|Life Is What YOU Make It|-|-|
Actually I have never cheated in an MMO, and take my time to play a game, and I would never cheat.
But I dont' see a problem in people gaingign levels fast.
I am AGAINST.
Duping money,
Making items or armor that break balance in the game mechanics.
Things like that.
I don't mind if smoeone wants to play the game at level 40 .. so if he wants to skip level 1-29 why not.
he is paying his 50+15 a month to play a game.. if his friends are all level 60 and he is level 1.. why can't he boost himself to 60 jsut to enjoy the game he is FUNDING?
There you say something making items or armor that break balance in the game mechanics. A higher level will and can create better quality stuff and give it to his friends and the rest he will sell at a high price. I hear you comming now, what has that to do with powerleveling and speedhacks. Everyone at that level can do that even after getting there a lot later. So true, but those that speedhack will be there way ahead for you and will screw the market for the higher level items because they can. Then you come to that level and you will have it hard to get there, because equipement will cost a lot more then supposed to.
If the same goes, when there are no speed hacks the most will advance in the same time to the same level and there will be someone to contest against for the price and there will be noone that just screw up the prices because they won't sell anything because another players will sell you just the same product at lower price.
This makes it more so if the company doesn't interfere with speedhacks, it will become necessary for everyone to go and use it. Otherwise the economie will realy be screwed and there will be none new players that will stay for long. Wich means less newcommer, the speedhackers will be get bored soon and the leaving rate will be higher then the new income. Wich means a loss of playerbase and if the ball is running it isn't stopped that easy. As example look to AC2, most people are leaving in big numbers right now. When I played the game a few months ago there where 400 people online on the server at least in peaks it goes up to 600 (not much, but the game never had realy a big succes) and if I hear the numbers now they can just reach 200. And have to say the prices realy change with the number of high level crafters. The more that get there at the same time the more the market will be in balance.
And if you can't see that, then I suggest to go to your bank and ask there what inflation means and what can cause it.
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
"If all magic fails, rely on three feet of steel and a strong arm"
We tried. But obviously this topic starter is jus a kid who cant understand basic economics
Is it so hard to understand that money coming from NPCs is *APPEARING FROM NOWHERE*? So if someone is able to obtain large amounts of things (fish botters, speed hackers, etc), they will most likely, sell them to NPC so they can get back out there QUICKLY to repeat another run. This money is coming from NOWHERE, n it is now FLOODING the market. In return, the worth of a dollar goes DOWN, n prices of things go UP. *THIS* DIRECTLY AFFECTS YOU N EVERY OTHER LEGIT PERSON PLAYING THE GAME. Can I make it any simpler?
It has nth to do with jealousy, or someone "affecting my gameplay" by being high lvl than me. It has to do with ppl like this flooding the market n making prices of things that legit players need, go up, while we no longer have an adequate source of income, compaired to *not* legit players.