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Player Run Economy = Getting ripped off by Players 24/7?
PatchDay
Member Posts: 1,641
What are people thought's on player run economy?
Let's take a look at EVE Online which has one of the most advanced economies.
And like a real economy, over the years I have seen prices rise higher and higher for ships. I am now paying bout 55% more for tech 2 ships that I did previously. And recall- if you get this ship blown up you gotta go buy another. Ouch!
Where are people getting all this ingame money to buy this stuff????
IT's gotta be due to all these macros and cheats. I know in EVE, there is now a macro so advanced, it will farm everything for you and even hide your ship if another player might possibly attack.
I'm starting to think player run economy = GET SCREWED BY OTHER PLAYERS 24/7!
I guess for you WoW players the equivalent would be Auction House for rares. I dont know bout now but I remember pre-Battlegrounds we saw insane prices for tradeable rare Epics.
Really sucks that players can accumulate all this ingame money from hacks, cheats, farmers, etc. Ruins the game for other players indirectly and we dont even realize how bad we're all getting screwed over by cheaters
Comments
"Really sucks that players can accumulate all this ingame money from hacks, cheats, farmers, etc"
That's an assumption on your part, and it makes your entire thread poorly thought-out, not to mention just flat out wrong.
Straight up quit QQ'ing. If you get ripped off then that means your just not playing right... its not all from hacks and cheats, its either a huge amount of time invested or they just time manage better then you do. Maybe look at your game plan again before goin out and grinding uselss mobs for couple hours..all about strategy
Dragon1613 says:asdfasdfafsdfw111111123123123213
-server-Dragon1613 has died
Becoming more and more an issue. But it's not just cheats I think, farmers and the way you level are the real reason I think.
The more levels you gain, the slower it gets but the more power you have and the more money you make. Newbees can't pay for those items anymore, they buy gold, stimulate the gold sellers and more and more money comes into the system.
Result: Inflation
Solution of gamemakers:... Platsinks....to deflate the economy
Doesn't work, they can't control inflation anymore and everyone keeps buying gold and prices inflate to ridiculous heights. Deflate the economy too much and it dies. It's artificial and is destined to be screwed up.
.
Only real solution is stopping the insane inflation by making top players earn about the same as the low end players, which means putting them onto a level playing field, something MMO developers don't want, they want to keep you running in your little rat wheel of progression.
or...start new server for those who want to play on an even field...why punish those who earned their wealth? (assuming they didn't macro or cheat in any way)
Dragon1613 says:asdfasdfafsdfw111111123123123213
-server-Dragon1613 has died
Basically player run economy is like a real economy, supply and demand. If something is low on supply but high on demand you get a crazy price, but if someone is willing to pay that price then profit.
Darkfall for now.
Quit bashing games YOU don't like! Including WoW, you know you liked it before you got burned out.
http://live.xbox.com/member/Njai
Oh really? Macros have gotten more and more advanced for EVE. Do a goggle and watch the videos for this macro.... I wish I was wrong.
Oh really? Macros have gotten more and more advanced for EVE. Do a goggle and watch the videos for this macro.... I wish I was wrong.
Your wish came true
..listen, I dunno what happened to trigger you to do this QQ thread, but its obivous that you are using a desprete argument as a last resort to try to proove your point (such as blaming it on hackers and macroers since they MUST be cheating to be better then you.. and btw most of those videos are rigged so you go on their site and the keylog your ass)
Dragon1613 says:asdfasdfafsdfw111111123123123213
-server-Dragon1613 has died
Straight up quit QQ'ing. If you get ripped off then that means your just not playing right... its not all from hacks and cheats, its either a huge amount of time invested or they just time manage better then you do. Maybe look at your game plan again before goin out and grinding uselss mobs for couple hours..all about strategy
I cant compete with people running macros that farm ISK (ingame currency in EVE) 24/7. I just cant. There is no way. These macros have gotten so advanced they scan your video buffer and totally automate the game for you
They even pvp for you essentially or rather- automate evasion.
No human can compete with this. Not unless I become hella great at Trading overnight?
Oh really? Macros have gotten more and more advanced for EVE. Do a goggle and watch the videos for this macro.... I wish I was wrong.
Your wish came true
..listen, I dunno what happened to trigger you to do this QQ thread, but its obivous that you are using a desprete argument as a last resort to try to proove your point (such as blaming it on hackers and macroers since they MUST be cheating to be better then you.. and btw most of those videos are rigged so you go on their site and the keylog your ass)
No this is real the EVE Online community is in uproar. Other day we were talking to a cheater that uses this macro. He is making billions of ISK. Insane isk 24/7
Straight up quit QQ'ing. If you get ripped off then that means your just not playing right... its not all from hacks and cheats, its either a huge amount of time invested or they just time manage better then you do. Maybe look at your game plan again before goin out and grinding uselss mobs for couple hours..all about strategy
I cant compete with people running macros that farm ISK (ingame currency in EVE) 24/7. I just cant. There is no way. These macros have gotten so advanced they scan your video buffer and totally automate the game for you
They even pvp for you essentially or rather- automate evasion.
No human can compete with this. Not unless I become hella great at Trading overnight?
To assume that "No human can compete with this" is total ignorance. Heres a little history (maybe why I am fueled to answer to your post).. I used to play runescape ALOT when I was younger (back when you could trade anything for any price and the game wasnt ruined). Me and a few other guys where top in the whole game as to how to control the whole market. We decided inflations/drops/ popularity/etc.. of items. Its not impossible, your just not in the elite in EVE it would seem. There are no lifers out there (like me in the past) that are just GOOD and dedicated in what they do. Look in real life, there are billionairs, did they just macro and cheat all the way up? Most of them don't, you just gotta know what you do. Knowledge is power, do reasearch and you will be able to achieve as much as anyone els.
Dragon1613 says:asdfasdfafsdfw111111123123123213
-server-Dragon1613 has died
The rising T2-prices in EvE have nothing to do with the macros.
There was a bug, that got used to produce Ferrogel and other high-value POS-reactions without needing to fill the reactors actually with the base-materials.
This bug was used massively for about a whole year, before it got fixed by CCP.
This is the reason, why Tech 2 items went up in price this much during the last 6 month. The ressources needed to produce Tech 2 items just aren't available in masses anymore.
And tbh, I don't know what high prices you're talking about actually. Before invention got introduced, the prices were 3 times as high as they're now.
Vagabonds and other HACs were tagged at 300 Million back then and a 425mm Railgun II was 25 Million. Capacitor Recharger II was 20 Million, etc, etc....
Stop whining and learn to play the game. Making money is easy enough in EvE Online. Flying LvL 4 Missions in high-sec rewards you with 20 Million ISK per hour allready.
Inform yourself about the fact first in the EvE Online-forums and the regarding DEV-Blogs, before you start complaining on another forum about it.
Everything that is player run tends to become very unbalanced/unfair for the majority of casuals.
If they want to make games for this crowd they have to rethink player freedom.
Comunist design decisions is the only way to please casual players these days.
If you allow Capitalism they get slaughtered!
Regardless of hacks and cheats, it takes one smart guy or a group of smart people to destroy the economy for everyone else.
Why the heck are you blowing up your T2s anyway?
In any case, this is the time, I'd imagine, to slow down with the PvP crap and start mining or salvaging.
When prices are high, it's time to slow down and produce. When prices are low, that's when you pew pew.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
It sure is easy. To turn on the new macro which will totally automate everything for me. See, this why making point-and-click MMOs not such a great idea. They are way too easy to exploit with basic haxx
I'm flying around looking at people macroing all day long this is getting ridicilous. How can this not effect the economy????
Once a week I might lose a ship. I'm not immortal. I pvp all week long I gotta die sooner or later. I dont believe in ss+logging out like I see so many of these pvpers doing
unfortunately macros and cheaters and gold farmers exist in just about every mmo these days. but it is our fault as the consumer in some cases because I am sure most people wont admit it but they have bought gold or credits or isk at some point.
I have been saying this for years. Not for EvE, but in general of the MMO community. You get hit from all sides, You have the farmers that end up inflating prices to the point of, if you dont buy gold, you cant get the items you need during your leveling career and if you do buy gold, you just end up helping to inflate the prices even more. Player Run economies are just bad for game play. Everyone wants to equate it to the real world but its not the real world, its just a game and sadly people are even more greedy in game than they are in the real world.
Take crafters for instance. In every MMO that I have played (and that is a boat load of em) crafters always end up inflating their prices to much more than an adventurer can gain at an equal rate. In most cases it is usually about 5 times more than what an adventurer makes in a given hour. I have confronted many of these folks in game and their usual answer was, do you know how boring crafting is! So, they are not doing crafting because the enjoy it, they do it because they know that they can get rich from it (in game anway)!
Take for instance, EQ2. I watched a group corner the market on food and drink on my server. No matter how many food and drink makers their was on my server, when you went to buy some from the auction house, you almost always bought it at that groups prices. Anytime someone put up food and drink below what they charged, they always bought it all up and repushed it with their prices. I watched a real life friend who was involved in this get stinking rich in the game while the casual player suffered because of the inflated prices. Sadly, EvE has probably the best player run economy of all the games I have played and they are almost as bad as the rest.
I know most people will not agree with me on this but I have always felt player run economies ruin the game for me. Just look at COH! All they have are recipes and invention drops and the prices are through the roof. Common stuff on my server is going for outragous prices now and dont even get me started on a purple rare drop. I could never afford it unless I did buy money from a farmer.
The only true solution to this is developers have to put a stop to player run economies. If they want an auction house or they have crafting in the game, they have to set the high and lows for the items, not the players. If you want to be a crafter because you like doing that, great, you will still make a profit, you just wont get stinking rich by controling the market. Crafters and adventures should IMO, make about the same amount of money per hour no matter what. When a developer gets that right, you will see a very healthy game and one that will be around for a long time.
I think that if you don't wanna go farm the item yourself you kind of deserve to get ripped off in a player run economy. Like for WoW for example I need some trade skill items , now I have the skills necessary to go farm the items I want all by myself....but I am lazy and instead choose to buy the items from the auction from the guy that either Botted and got them or perhaps the player that legitamently went and farmed the items.
Buying from a botter or buying from a player is like buying vegetable from the store or getting them from a Fruit/vegetable stand on the side of the road. So should the stand owner's lose out because a store is able to make the product more readily available. So I guess what I am trying to say is "STOP QQ-ING AND L2FARM!" Lazy players are what makes player driven economies fail.
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Is that you Obama? I didnt know you played MMO's. Maybe you are Hugo Chavez if not Obama?
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Yeah and while they are at it can the Developer level my toon and gear him up for me too.....
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
I have to partially disagree with this. yes to a point you are right but you are forgetting the greed that people have. Let me give you an example. In Vanguard, when people first started making boats, they were going for 25 gold at the time and let me tell you, Unless you were playing the buy em up and resell stuff at high prices gig, you as an adventurer was not any where near 25 gold at the time that you could actually use boats. So I talked to several crafters and found out what every component they needed was and I went out to gather them myself. It took me several days to get every item I needed so that the crafter wouldnt have to do anything but hit combine several times (It took about 30 minutes of combining to make the ship). Well, just in those few days it took me to gather the stuff I needed, Prices for ships had sored to almost 80 gold. I couldn't even get a person to make the ship when I furnished all the items! By that time, and this was just a couple days mind you, they wouldnt even combine them for less than 40 gold. 40 gold!!!! It would take me over 2 weeks to make that as an adventurer at that time. So, again, its not lazy players that drive economies to fail, its the greedy sob's that feel their time is worth 5 times more than everyone elses.
Learn about inflation and basic economics, and then apply that knowledge with the variable that in a MMOG money is artificially manufactured from thin air (via spawns) and you will understand the economics of any MMOG better...including EVE.
Inflation in these games is absolutely guaranteed.
I have to partially disagree with this. yes to a point you are right but you are forgetting the greed that people have. Let me give you an example. In Vanguard, when people first started making boats, they were going for 25 gold at the time and let me tell you, Unless you were playing the buy em up and resell stuff at high prices gig, you as an adventurer was not any where near 25 gold at the time that you could actually use boats. So I talked to several crafters and found out what every component they needed was and I went out to gather them myself. It took me several days to get every item I needed so that the crafter wouldnt have to do anything but hit combine several times (It took about 30 minutes of combining to make the ship). Well, just in those few days it took me to gather the stuff I needed, Prices for ships had sored to almost 80 gold. I couldn't even get a person to make the ship when I furnished all the items! By that time, and this was just a couple days mind you, they wouldnt even combine them for less than 40 gold. 40 gold!!!! It would take me over 2 weeks to make that as an adventurer at that time. So, again, its not lazy players that drive economies to fail, its the greedy sob's that feel their time is worth 5 times more than everyone elses.
1 question.....what stopped you from creating your own.
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
I have to partially disagree with this. yes to a point you are right but you are forgetting the greed that people have. Let me give you an example. In Vanguard, when people first started making boats, they were going for 25 gold at the time and let me tell you, Unless you were playing the buy em up and resell stuff at high prices gig, you as an adventurer was not any where near 25 gold at the time that you could actually use boats. So I talked to several crafters and found out what every component they needed was and I went out to gather them myself. It took me several days to get every item I needed so that the crafter wouldnt have to do anything but hit combine several times (It took about 30 minutes of combining to make the ship). Well, just in those few days it took me to gather the stuff I needed, Prices for ships had sored to almost 80 gold. I couldn't even get a person to make the ship when I furnished all the items! By that time, and this was just a couple days mind you, they wouldnt even combine them for less than 40 gold. 40 gold!!!! It would take me over 2 weeks to make that as an adventurer at that time. So, again, its not lazy players that drive economies to fail, its the greedy sob's that feel their time is worth 5 times more than everyone elses.
Are you the loner type? If you were in a guild they would make it for you if you had the mats.
Now, not attacking you, just making a statement in general. People who dont join guilds or dont have in game friends have to accept that they must pay the rates set by crafters. Dont like it, aquire a friendly attitude towards others and join a guild. CHances are you will not have the problems with prices. I have never needed to go to an AH to get crafted items. I had guilds/kinship to turn to for these things. I gather the mats or help gather and I was given the items I wanted. Same thing goes for class drops or armor, get a guild group together and get it.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
once you hit lvl 3 or 4 missions, without a macro, you can make easily 20 mil in 2 hours. I do. Never used a macro. Have a miner toon and a combat toon (BS specialized) i can run 1 level 4 every other day, since i pvp the other day. I fly cheap t2 fitted t1 ships (usually bc's or lower till i get more capita). I now have 700mil isk in 6 months. I can afford a whole lotta goodies, but i am being frugal yet having fun at the same time.
i play 2-3 hours a night, since i have a family to take care of.
My indy alt mostly mines to produce my ships, and does trade routes to bring a little more income in.
Play smart, never fly what you can't afford to lose, and you will make money. (all without macros)