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Is leveling only fun once?
Bastioni
Member Posts: 120
It's trange. I can only seem to reach the endgame in one MMO and then I get bored in each and every other one after a few days.
When my friends asked me to join a game, I couldn't even make it to level 10 before I got bored. Happened with Lotro, Aion, all of them..
I reached max level in Everquest, and since then I can't be bothered. So is it only possible to enjoy this once for most?
Comments
I dunno, I only have fun when I'm leveling. Everytime I hit max level I start getting bored.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
After quitting WoW at lvl 60 and prior to the expansion, every subsequent attempt at starting anew character has never got me past 20, boredom and familiarity with the quests puts me off.
Currently playing LOTRO and have one maxxed out character, my alts are all sub level 10.
So nope your not the only one
At some point I think almost everyone realizes how pointless progression is if you're doing it just for the sake of progressing.
When people wake up to that fact and the lure of another level or the next gear upgrade is no longer sufficient by itself to keep them going then the malaise sets in. Then it all comes down to the question, "Is this fun?" Unfortunately the answer is usually no.
I realized this a long time ago but I think I was predesposed to this attitude to begin with more than most people. But that's why I couldn't make it to max level in WoW at all. I just don't give a damn about what level I am or how much e-peen my kewl lewt gives me or what nifty title I could get. I don't care about that stuff and I'm not so deluded as to believe that anyone else playing a game is going to be impressed by any of it. So if I'm not having fun none of that progression stuff is going to keep me hooked.
/thread
It took me 5 mmos to realize, level grinding is not fun... anymore. Maybe at first. Not anymore. Mortal Online please come.
I enjoy leveling characters as long as the process provides me with challenges and let's me learn new things about the game and myself. So I quite enjoyed leveling all the different classes in WoW but could never level a class I already played before. Similarly I could never get into LotR because leveling a new character felt too much like leveling a similar class in WoW. In AoC I had great fun leveling my character to 30 and then I realized that I was no longer learning anything new and simply going through the same motions.
Yep, sometimes MMOS make you do some self reflection which is good. You need to know why you enjoy yourself in these games. You have an idea what makes you bored. Mindless repetitive missions. Kill rats and repeat. Craft 10 ding dongs until you craft premium ding dong, then repeat and so on. All these tasks are in every MMO. We do them because we wish to see more, see how new skills look like, see how our new gear looks like. Endgame gives you rare gear as a reward. Some games give you PvP experiences. What do you like? Exploration? Unlocking new skills? posting big numbers? Master PvP leaderboards? A fancy virutal house? Deep rich gaming lore? or a beautiful backdrop in which to chat with others?
Guess i kind of feel the same way, however there was a game i didnt mind re rolling, Hellgate:London. Maybe it was the FPS feature or the diffrent level builds, but i enjoyed it, Sure the game is dead and gone now, but, who knows.
Agreed. I suppose no one ever heard of "It's not the destination, it's the journey". I'm currently playing about 5 MMO's at the same time. My gear in any of them won't impress and I'll probably never see everything that they have to offer . . . I have a full-time job and don't have that much time. However, I've never been bored and have a blast each time I log in to whatever MMO I'll be playing that evening after work.
Yeah the majority of fun for me is leveling. I too get bored with "end game" content. In fact I have more fun leveling up the second and third time because I no what I'm doing and where I'm going and stuff. I also get to experience the game in a slightly different way by playing a new class.
no wayyy! i start to find other ways to level up
I feel the same way. The only difference is I enjoy end game PvP, so that keeps me going. If not for PvP in MMOs I doubt I could keep playing. FFXIV seems interesting since there are no levels. It's the only PvE (I'm assuming it will be mostly PvE) game I am interested in right now.
If you think of your fun as leveling than yes you suffer the risk of a total burnout of leveling in any MMO (or maybe even RPG).
If you think of levels as a mere consequence of your progress in the game, it not actually being the reason you keep playing it, then no, it won't be fun only once, you might even have lots of alt characters in that same game.
It's all a matter of how you view it, the wonders of the human mind.
I suggest you play some single-player RPGs to understand this, you don't really play them "to reach the maximum level", sometimes you only look at your level when you face a content that is too hard and you may need to do other things to get stronger before trying that content again.
I don't dislike leveling, but I do not care for leveling in a MMO where lack of content means that I will be doing the same repetative tasks from 1-cap.
I have toons that are max level and some that aren't. I agree with you that having to go through the same old grind over and over and over again is really annoying, I've just dropped characters entirely when they start to seem too similar to what I've already done. Maybe once I get all of the interesting classes maxed, I'll just stop playing and find another game, I don't know.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm the same way. I still play wow, not because of the endgame content they keep adding, but because there are 10 classes just distinct enough in motif and playstyle that going through all the same quests is still interesting for me. I think of myself as more of an explorer type of player. I love seeing new content, but I also enjoy approaching the same content from the different perspectives of each class. It's all about renewing the experience even if only by a small degree.
It's for those same reasons that I enjoy clearing a new raid instance the first couple times but quickly tire of it, no matter how much more challenging they might allow you to make it with the new "hard modes". To me, it's the same thing I've seen before, just with more frustration, and without any promise of new experiences as a reward.
But I digress: ultimately leveling is probably only going to be enjoyable more than once if you are the kind of person that gets their fun out of seeing things from new perspectives, and taking new approaches to the same challenges, where that means doing it as a new class, as part of a different faction, on a pvp server rather than pve, a new race, or even just with a group of friends instead of solo. If things like this don't provide you with enough novelty or variety to have fun, then that may just not be your playstyle. Then again, it may also be that so many games emulate eachother these days that finding these novel experiences is becoming more difficult.
I don't want to see the same things from new perspectives, I want to see new things. I want to do things that I didn't do the last time around, which is why I usually only play through the most different types of characters I can. Having various types of tanks, all of which want the same kinds of weapons, the same kinds of armor, the same leveling places, the same kinds of experiences... no thanks. But if I can do something different, where I'm after an entirely new set of gear, going to places I didn't go to last time, seeing things I never saw before, that's what will keep me interested.
Otherwise, it's too boring, too fast.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Leveling as it currently exists and has existed since the first days of D&D has never been fun for me.
This is because D&D, and therefore everything else that followed, started you off as a little wank with barely anything cool where one effing arrow could kill you.
A good example of this is the Lore Master class in LOTRO. This case actually refutes the argument that the first 10 levels that almost no one likes is to "train" you. Well LM suck until at least 16 and cannot even execute one of the their signature play style paths (nuker) until around level 35. Its a great class ofter that and leveling has been fine for me. But almost every LM who makes into the 40s and gets their legendary trait that makes them badass (sword and staff) tells all the lowbies the same thing, suffer through it. Its not fun, its painful but its worth it.
Sorry but that is not game design, that is just plain crap.
Why the hell do I have to suffer through this crap? I blame D&D. Or more correctly I blame hidebound RPG designers who cannot deviate from their formulas because at least in D&D it made some sense and you had a DM.
I don't want to see the same things from new perspectives, I want to see new things. I want to do things that I didn't do the last time around, which is why I usually only play through the most different types of characters I can. Having various types of tanks, all of which want the same kinds of weapons, the same kinds of armor, the same leveling places, the same kinds of experiences... no thanks. But if I can do something different, where I'm after an entirely new set of gear, going to places I didn't go to last time, seeing things I never saw before, that's what will keep me interested.
Otherwise, it's too boring, too fast.
Let me clarify: I do what's most different first when leveling again. I try to differentiate my experience as much as possible with each new character I create, so that things stay more novel. In WoW, this meant my first four characters were different archetypes: tank, healer, melee, ranged. WoW offers 3-4 zones to level in no matter what level you are too (before outland/northrend), so I kept to a different route each time when possible.
Of course, this becomes more stale the less different I can make it each time, and I'd really rather see new content all the time. I'm excited about SW:TOR for this reason; I've heard each class has it's own lengthy story arc (though I'm cynical, thinking it'll probably amount to an AoC style destiny quest). TBH, it depends on what intrigues me at the time too. I'll probably leave a character at 20 or so if I'm not interested in it atm. Just my way of extending the life of the game while I wait in vain for something new to roll along =/.
Agreed. I suppose no one ever heard of "It's not the destination, it's the journey". I'm currently playing about 5 MMO's at the same time. My gear in any of them won't impress and I'll probably never see everything that they have to offer . . . I have a full-time job and don't have that much time. However, I've never been bored and have a blast each time I log in to whatever MMO I'll be playing that evening after work.
I recently canceled all four of my active MMO subs, because I realized that the 'journey' is the exact same in all of them. The visuals are slightly different, but I've already done it multiple times and it just feels like a waste.
I'm looking at games like Mortal and other skill-based sandboxes as my only other MMO options. If they don't pan out, it'll be back to single player rpg's, private NWN servers, and novels.
When an MMO comes along that doesn't insult me with obvious carrot-on-a-stick mechanics, I may partake of the journey again.
I don't think there will be any consensus... I like leveling, but I also like endgame. Perhaps that makes me a sadist? But I like to learn about the land, etc., while leveling up, so I guess that helps make it seem less boring to me.
Ningen wa ningen da.
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http://twitter.com/Ciovala
A lot of the general problem with leveling is the quests, they just keep repeating over and over and over. It's only possible to do them so many times before you're exhausted with them.
I ran to max level in eq1, eq2, wow, daoc, and a few other games at one point or another... and generally I can stomach doing it once or twice in each game if the starting areas and questing areas are diverse enough, but after that.. meh.
I think the only true way to fix that problem is get rid of 95% of the quests in games, make a truly breathing interacting world and the problem goes away. Quests arise because of need in the game not because the dev put it there.
Players kill the wildlife in an area, goblins start raiding towns for food since their natural source is gone, merchants hire mercenaries (or players) to stop the goblins raids, players kill goblins, wildlife starts to recover having no natural predators, mercs get bored with nothing to do and take over city to make it their personal 'home', get in fights, players get hired to remove mercenaries from town, etc, etc... forever. Events need to happen and the world needs to evolve and interact.
Until that happens quests multi leveling in the same game will be a nightmare.
It's bad enough there are a limited number of 'types' of quests in mmmos... "fedex", "kill", etc... shrug.
I look forward to it becoming more of a breathing living world.
Shadus
Leveling is not fun more than once if most experience is derived from linear tasks and errands which is how many theme park games are designed. Once you have performed the task/errand, it is boring and repetitive to do it again.
In a MMOG where most experience is earned from hunting though, like a sandbox design would be based on, then you can keep it interesting and fresh by choosing different mobs. Also if you play a different class or use other skillsets then you are trying something new and a system which promotes hunting for experience gain is more suited for experimenting with different classes and skillsets.
I made a thread stating more or less the same. Levels 1-10 are the same in every freaking game that I can't be bothered to try any more MMORPG that use the same stupid model. I'm tired of starting off with no abilities, no access to any content except the "tutorial" area, and being put in this sadistic situation where I need to trudge through 2-4 hours of bullcrap before I even get my class's signature ability.
Yeah, at the risk of identifying myself as "that guy" I enjoyed the setup pre-cu SWG had. You have skill trees instead of levels, and the crafting/non-combat trees were right alongside the combat ones in importance. You could pretty much master any combo you wanted in a week or less, but that also meant you could change easily whenever you felt like it without having to reroll.
I won't say there were any amazing quests at the time, and the areas to explore were generally pretty bland, but players didn't feel pressured to just max out some combat profession asap. Most people I saw just kind of enjoyed themselves with whatever aspect of the game they liked most and the xp came with it over time. It was a pretty tight-knit community.
It had it's issues obviously, and that's all gone now, but I don't understand why most haven't tried a tweaked version of it instead of sticking with the same boring level system.
I also don't like the idea of a skill based system that lets you master everything given time. That makes me feel like I have to pay a year's worth of subscription fees to get the most out of the game. Console games don't work like that, neither should mmos. Let me have reallocatable skill points with a limit.
I'm never really bored when I'm playing my game. Sure DDO is revolved around repeating dungeons over and over again but playing with different people / making fun classes is really where the longevity of the game lies. There a lot of people that say DDO is boring but, they never got past level 6 i bet.