Yes indeed welcome to the great asian invasion. I think Vanguard is the last of its kind, welcome to the wide world of Asian Mmorpgs. Even EQ2 has an Asian character model and WoW is very Asian looking in color and cartoony style.
You see, I don't want a world that's coverd in mobs. I get that from LOTRO and it's just plain garbage. It's ok to travel and not be attacked or have to do anything other than travel. The world IS huge. I'm talking space. And I like space. I have had so much fun just seeing something in the distance and going there. If there's something to do there great. If it's just a tower that I can go up and look around then great. having a huge world just covered in mobs is as bad as a small world covered in mobs. worse in fact. There is an ineffable feeling of getting on your (virtual) horse and just riding. Having to stop every 10 seconds to fight a mob or having to contend with being thrown from the horse sort of negates the reason to have a mount. In fact it makes it worse. Now I can rush to the next mob faster. Sorry but I'll take my open world feeling with Vangaurd and take my encounters when they come. And as someone said there are place to go. What about that tower that has cyclopses withing the walls at the base. Saw that went there and was destroyed. that was fun. Or the tomb I saw on top of a mountain. Or that monastery that I flew to in the distance. Once came upon an area with yeti and stayed to do some fun quests. Or the islands in the distance that had lizard people who would sacrifice themselves. I even discovered a cave filled with spiders that led to some unknown (to me) quests. remember, music isn't just notes. It's also the silence between those notes.
Hey Sovrath,
I hear what you are saying, it fits that old "romantic" or classical notion of what MMO's should be like.
However VG has a few problems that really prevent it from being that.
1) It's totally static. Yes you can fly around and gallop around and the first time it is a expansive and somewhat refreshing however nothing changes. I mean nothing has changed at all. There is no dynamic element to VG whatso ever. The game lacks "life", it never feels alive at all. Even the NPC's just stand there for the mostpart.
2) It's confused. Crafting for example. There was a serious shortage of crafters last year when I played. So much that even buying arrows became an issue. Why? Because of loot. On top of it, loot that for the mostpart bound and was slightly better then crafted items. Now thats fine for a game like LotR or WoW but VG has one of the, if not THE most elaborate crafting of any game. So it undoes itself there. Dipolmacy...the forgotten sphere. Possiblly one of the better ideas not tied to an item shop these days. It could have been built on but it has been abandon.
3) Raids...SOE's tried and true lazy way out of everything. Rather then make a dynamic world all they did was throw in a huge time sink of a raid that is on a difficulty level designed to frustrate.
4) lacks any real purpose. You can build a ship, right? But why? It doesn't take you anywhere special, you can teleport everywhere now. You can't fight in it, you can't "adventure" in it...you can fish in it. Not a big motivator. You can build a house but again...why? No one looks at them, you can't do anything with them but decorate them. The original proposal was that you would be able to run shops and things out of them...that got bumped. The content, although some of it is "ok" the vast majority is "kill 10 rats" and recycle.
5) Factional system has no impact. What does it do? Stops you from getting a mount? Weee...maybe some NPC's attack you? It's only a point grinder system, typical of SOE's lazy way out of things. Look at SWG and EQ2, they did the same damn things in both of those games. Point collection systems. EQ2, collect 10 seashells and get a nice little prize, SWG, collect 8 Jabba boogers and you get a shiny object...or Ewok chocolate or something stupid like that...
VG was a missed opportunity IMHO. Just like so many other MMO's. SOE put the usual cookie cutter conventions in it a let it ride. They have done MORE to stagnate MMO's then anyone else in the genre.
See you in AION
Hey torak, glad you are going to be trying Aion! I'm sure I'll see you there.
I can't dispute what you say because in some ways they are very true. But for my puproses they are completely non issues.
1, I agree the game lacks life. I'm not sure if that is because they went with the old eq model or "what?" but there is a serenity to the whole thing. As I'm there just to explore, that doesn't really mean anything for me. However, players who are looking for a certain level of energy might not find it in Vanguard. That is true. Same thing with pick up groups or population.
I use it as my own personal playground.
2, I don't do crafting and I don't do diplomacy. However, the gear I've found on the auction house works fine and I have had no complaints. I can actually sell some of the gear that I find and usually do. I sell it for lower cost but it moves quicker and I have a little extra money in my pocket because of it.
3, I'll probably never raid in Vanguard and for the most part I've never been a huge fan of raiding outside of the social aspect or to say we've done it. Remember raiding in Lineage 2? some boss mob with a label of boss mob, everyone gathering around it and then the tank starts the raid. Not good at all. quite boring in my opinion. so I've yet to really experience a raid that would make me want to raid outside of just "doing it".
4, Not interested in ships or housing. I like the idea that one could run a shop out of a house but as we both know that might be a pain in the neck. one of the changes they've made to Vangaurd actually makes it playable for me and that's the porting. I get the idea of having a huge world and having to travel by boat or horse but the world of vanguard is so large that would essentially make the game unplayable. I don't mind porting to hubs and then traveling from there. Heck, I was able to find a leveling spot because of it. Otherwise it would have taken me, probably over a week or more just to find this spot. I don't find that compelling gameplay though it is realistic.
I don't pay attention to the factional stuff. So I haven't seen any real impact. Which of course might highlight its failure.
Essentially Vanguard is for me. Why? Becase it's a huge world that I can explore at my own pace and have some adventures. For players who are looking for an extremely dynamic world where pick up groups are the norm and the cities are crowded like stormreach, well, this is not for them.
Vanguard is a niche game and due to its failures and thus due to the decisions that rose from those failures will remain a niche game.
Honestly, had the game had a glowing launch I still don't think it would have been a success. It's basically a game that will have a hard and fast devoted playerbase. Albeit a small one. And one that plays for their own reasons.
I use it as my relaxing, secondary game. or tertiary even because I do have a lotro account.
However, Aion is more to my taste despite some flaws, and that will be my main game. But as I've said, I believe in supporting a game like vanguard because the more people who support it the more that devs might eventually consider making another game like it.
Essentially, I'm voting with my wallet.
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One of the main problems with Vanguard is the performance of the game , I am sure alot of people have played and just got tired of the lag and particularly the freeze problems. I have had a character run one way and all of a sudden I am running the complete oppisite. Yes this has gotten better since launch which was a lag nightmare but not good enough for a pay game.
Yes indeed welcome to the great asian invasion. I think Vanguard is the last of its kind, welcome to the wide world of Asian Mmorpgs. Even EQ2 has an Asian character model and WoW is very Asian looking in color and cartoony style.
Actually I rather like that style. I've yet to see a western game capture that epic feeling that eastern games have. Sure, they are over the top but I find that a lot more compelling than the prevalent brown that most western games seem to have.
I get that the eastern devs love the look of their games. They are excited about it. It's extreme but it shows a level of energy that is refreshing.
When I launched eq2 for the first time all I could think of was "ugh".
But that's a discussion for another thread I'm sure.
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VG is without question the largest mmo world currently in existence. Now if they'd only get rid of the silly-ass bind on equip nonsense in favor of a real player economy, I'd re-subscribe.
They did get rid of the majority of BoE quite some time ago The market right now is very hot with enhancement items as many of the new weapons, gear etc. have a number of different customizable slots. Good days to be buying and selling.
I concur that Vanguard is a niche game and that relatively speaking it has a low population overall. But it only has 3 PvE servers and anyone of those servers feels alive and bustling. Vanguard offers a number of things no other MMO does as mentioned in the previous threads. As such, it will continue to be the best PvE MMO available for players that enjoy what it offers. Aion, WoW, AoC, WAR, <insert standard MMO here>, etc. will compete against each other, but Vanguard will enjoy being the only MMO available that caters to the EQ1 type crowd.
The downside to being a niche game is that SoE will never pour a ton of money into it because the potential market is much smaller than the standard MMO. The dev team is small, but dedicated and they just managed to push another new dungeon out this week. At least for me, I can't keep pace with the new content.
It seems kind of likely, but it would be a shame if did, imo.
I agree. Not trolling, I have played the game, but something about it just didn't hold my interest. But it does seem to be the MMO sony doesn't care much for. It could be a great game if they would put more development on it...and perhaps a bit more advertizing. But as it is SOE pushes EQ and SWG more than anything...
SoE pushes SWG?? Yeah, pushes it right off a cliff!
EQ1 and 2 get real content and expansions. SWG gets pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts on their chests, fairy wings for players to wear and soon zombies.
If thats the kind of attention that SoE pushes on SWG then Id rather have them completely ignore it.
The only games SoE really cares about are EQ1/EQ2. All the other games are just little stupid red-haired step children in their minds.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
It seems kind of likely, but it would be a shame if did, imo.
I agree. Not trolling, I have played the game, but something about it just didn't hold my interest. But it does seem to be the MMO sony doesn't care much for. It could be a great game if they would put more development on it...and perhaps a bit more advertizing. But as it is SOE pushes EQ and SWG more than anything...
SoE pushes SWG?? Yeah, pushes it right off a cliff!
EQ1 and 2 get real content and expansions. SWG gets pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts on their chests, fairy wings for players to wear and soon zombies.
If thats the kind of attention that SoE pushes on SWG then Id rather have them completely ignore it.
The only games SoE really cares about are EQ1/EQ2. All the other games are just little stupid red-haired step children in their minds.
or gingers.
and we know we have to be careful about them.
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How are eastern games defined as more "Epic" ... I don't see it. The contrast that I see, is one looks more realistic "western" and "eastern" looks cartoony, like a cross between pokemon and Dead or Alive- what's epic about that?
Anyway, as a mmorpg gamer ... if sony shuts down another game, should be a clear sign not to invest time or energy into another one of their products. I mean why pay all this money to play one of their games and then if the going gets tough ... they 'll shut it down. Some how judging by their past decisions they haven't thought about this.
Hey torak, glad you are going to be trying Aion! I'm sure I'll see you there. I can't dispute what you say because in some ways they are very true. But for my puproses they are completely non issues. 1, I agree the game lacks life. I'm not sure if that is because they went with the old eq model or "what?" but there is a serenity to the whole thing. As I'm there just to explore, that doesn't really mean anything for me. However, players who are looking for a certain level of energy might not find it in Vanguard. That is true. Same thing with pick up groups or population. I use it as my own personal playground. 2, I don't do crafting and I don't do diplomacy. However, the gear I've found on the auction house works fine and I have had no complaints. I can actually sell some of the gear that I find and usually do. I sell it for lower cost but it moves quicker and I have a little extra money in my pocket because of it. 3, I'll probably never raid in Vanguard and for the most part I've never been a huge fan of raiding outside of the social aspect or to say we've done it. Remember raiding in Lineage 2? some boss mob with a label of boss mob, everyone gathering around it and then the tank starts the raid. Not good at all. quite boring in my opinion. so I've yet to really experience a raid that would make me want to raid outside of just "doing it". 4, Not interested in ships or housing. I like the idea that one could run a shop out of a house but as we both know that might be a pain in the neck. one of the changes they've made to Vangaurd actually makes it playable for me and that's the porting. I get the idea of having a huge world and having to travel by boat or horse but the world of vanguard is so large that would essentially make the game unplayable. I don't mind porting to hubs and then traveling from there. Heck, I was able to find a leveling spot because of it. Otherwise it would have taken me, probably over a week or more just to find this spot. I don't find that compelling gameplay though it is realistic. I don't pay attention to the factional stuff. So I haven't seen any real impact. Which of course might highlight its failure. Essentially Vanguard is for me. Why? Becase it's a huge world that I can explore at my own pace and have some adventures. For players who are looking for an extremely dynamic world where pick up groups are the norm and the cities are crowded like stormreach, well, this is not for them. Vanguard is a niche game and due to its failures and thus due to the decisions that rose from those failures will remain a niche game. Honestly, had the game had a glowing launch I still don't think it would have been a success. It's basically a game that will have a hard and fast devoted playerbase. Albeit a small one. And one that plays for their own reasons. I use it as my relaxing, secondary game. or tertiary even because I do have a lotro account. However, Aion is more to my taste despite some flaws, and that will be my main game. But as I've said, I believe in supporting a game like vanguard because the more people who support it the more that devs might eventually consider making another game like it. Essentially, I'm voting with my wallet.
That's cool, if works for you, it works
Yeah I remember the L2 raids, it wasn't the raids themselves that it was about though, it was the fights that resulted during the raid lol. Some of the newer stuff isn't so simplistic but yeah, they were nothing to brag about....until some wiseguy took a swing at you or a guildie. L2 was never about the content, it was about the politics of the haves and have not's and control of the castles and resources, raid bosses were a resources hence something to fight over.
Which made all the difference
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed my time with VG (look at my blog here, I did some player interviews last year) but it lost it's edge with me mainly because of
static and non-dynamic reasons
Performance. I can run just about anything made for PC on high settings...except for VG...The best I was ever able to do with a decent framerate was med and even that was hit or miss at times.
Populations...no one to play with. I went from L2 castle sieges on Teon with hundreds of players to the solitude of VG...that was the roughest part, you didn't run into all that many people at all. The biggest group of people I ever saw in 5 or 6 months was maybe a little over a dozen maybe 20 or so. (and that was hell on the frame rates)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by veritas_X VG is without question the largest mmo world currently in existence. Now if they'd only get rid of the silly-ass bind on equip nonsense in favor of a real player economy, I'd re-subscribe.
There are plenty of games with larger game areas than Vanguard. SWG for one, WW2online and just a guess, but I bet everquest has more real estate with the 500 expansions it has seen. I'm sure there are more, but vanguards world is still rather big.
What makes the vanguard world larger than life is a few things. The viewing distance alone gives a great feeling to the world. Seeing a long way increases the feeling of the worlds size, where other games use fogs and things like that to limit view distances. Also there is very little wasted space in any given chunk. The artificial barriers in other games eay up a huge amount of game space. Imagine how much playable space would be lost if every chunk had some unpassable unaccessable mountain range surrounding its borders.
It is true there are some areas that are just devoid of anything. Some from due to early release and some due to estimating housing needs, but it is one of the better worlds to run around in. In my opinion it is the greatest strength of the game by a wide margin.
I bet the actual landmass of the game (excluding the water areas) is similar to most mmos, but it is utilized and presented in a much more effecient design. Something I think more games would profit from if adapted properly.
Sovrath, How are eastern games defined as more "Epic" ... I don't see it. The contrast that I see, is one looks more realistic "western" and "eastern" looks cartoony, like a cross between pokemon and Dead or Alive- what's epic about that? Anyway, as a mmorpg gamer ... if sony shuts down another game, should be a clear sign not to invest time or energy into another one of their products. I mean why pay all this money to play one of their games and then if the going gets tough ... they 'll shut it down. Some how judging by their past decisions they haven't thought about this. My only regret is I really like this game.
Well, that's a very good question. And it deserves a really good answer. Unfortunately I don't have one for you.
me saying that they look more epic was a very simplistic way of saying what perhaps several paragraphs would do better at.
One could go with the whole realistic vs cartoony, but in some ways one could say wow is cartoony and that is the most financially successful western game around.
I like to look at the differences in art design as stylized vs realism.
So getting back to question, I am NOT saying that stylized games are more "epic" looking than realistic games. But what I am saying is that due to all the attention to the characters and game worlds of many eastern games, I get the feeling that the artists just had fun and loved creating what they were creating. In that, if you wanted a bad ass sword, they gave you one that redefined what a bad ass sword really was. times 10.
the monsters are highly detailed or just whacked in some cases, the armor is decorated with all sorts of filigree, everything is created with the idea that this is your hero. And not just a hero but a HERO!
I get that they love their over the top creations and that there is a general excitement over their worlds. At least visually.
Now, since an epic is a story that is told in a high language and it also means heroic, the level of detail, of bombast, to me suggest that this highly detailed, over the top visual langauge is suggestive of something that is trully "epic".
they have defined, visually, what heroic is and they love enhancing that definitiion.
However, with many western games, I don't get that the artists or animators are as much in love with their creations so much as they are interested in making them real.
but as we know, in any story, saying that you caught a fish that was 6 inches is not as exciting as catchign one that is 24 inches. Having a one on one fight where you lose because you accidentally stepped off of a wall is not as exciting as being surrounded by an army and your little band picking off more than they but you losing because of attritiion.
epic stories are meant to be exciting and elevated. And visually I personally get that from eastern games more than western games.
You see, even though there is the drive for realism in many western games, I think something is lost in the translation. It's as if they took a book and decided to be so faithful to it that you get ALL the exposition and every little side story at the expense of turning it into a great movie.
so am I saying that realistic games can't be epic? No. Being over the top in their way makes a lot of sense, espeically with what we've seen of their cultural output.
However, the western games that I've played seem to forget that grand feel, that visual excitement that can really draw one in. If I'm going to swing a sword in a western game it's going to be slower than one in an eastern game. So then I want to feel the weight of the sword, I want to feel that it has reverberation on my opponent as well as me.
I've been playign a lot of oblvion and have a combat mod that makes the combat more realistic. I've had severl fights that truly felt like fights. They were long, the sound of metal on metal was such that I could feel it. Two opponents slugging it out. At one point I paused the game because I was just so taken with what I was experiencing. Me hitting their shield and recoiling because of the blow. Movingaround for a better access to the side and making a solid contact.
I don't get that visceral feeling in mmo games. regardless of the real time component of oblivion. Add to that that it all seems just a bit too bland.
It's as if a composer was asked to write a piece of music (or song for that matter) and got so caught up in the process and the clever usage of compositional elements that they forgot that music needs to also be listened to. It has to be "good" not just put together well.
There is a lack of the epic in western games. Or many western games. I don't feel that the artists and animators are truly in love with their creations, truly feel the excitement that they are supposed to generate.
And that is why this is a bad answer. Because it is personal opinion and therefore my answer.
not great but there it is.
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I decided not to make Vanguard my main game precisely because it seems to lack SoE's support. I'd rather not put hundreds of hours into something only to have it all magically disappear.
I decided not to make Vanguard my main game precisely because it seems to lack SoE's support. I'd rather not put hundreds of hours into something only to have it all magically disappear.
Great game though.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
Would be a shame. This game has some of the greatest gfx I've ever seen. But I guess this proves that most people don't care about gfx when it comes to gaming. For me, gfx are the most important thing and thats why I'm shallow
I decided not to make Vanguard my main game precisely because it seems to lack SoE's support. I'd rather not put hundreds of hours into something only to have it all magically disappear.
Great game though.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
They shut down ONE game so far.....so not much of a history, now NCSoft has a ruthless history of shutting games down. As far as the RMT, well everyone's doing it lol...and it's gonna get worse from here on.
I decided not to make Vanguard my main game precisely because it seems to lack SoE's support. I'd rather not put hundreds of hours into something only to have it all magically disappear.
Great game though.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
They shut down ONE game so far.....so not much of a history, now NCSoft has a ruthless history of shutting games down. As far as the RMT, well everyone's doing it lol...and it's gonna get worse from here on.
We lost that fight as a community years ago.
Maybe it's not the fear of the game being shut down that turned me away, but the lack of support. It seems like the game is the red-headed child that lives under the stairs. Does SoE even acknowledge that Vanguard exists? :S
If anything SOE should shut down the EQ2 as it was total crap of a game, and move the entire developement team to Vanguard... But I guess thats just my humble (truthful) opinion... Vanguard has so much potential...
You see, I don't want a world that's coverd in mobs. I get that from LOTRO and it's just plain garbage. It's ok to travel and not be attacked or have to do anything other than travel. The world IS huge. I'm talking space. And I like space. I have had so much fun just seeing something in the distance and going there. If there's something to do there great. If it's just a tower that I can go up and look around then great. having a huge world just covered in mobs is as bad as a small world covered in mobs. worse in fact. There is an ineffable feeling of getting on your (virtual) horse and just riding. Having to stop every 10 seconds to fight a mob or having to contend with being thrown from the horse sort of negates the reason to have a mount. In fact it makes it worse. Now I can rush to the next mob faster. Sorry but I'll take my open world feeling with Vangaurd and take my encounters when they come. And as someone said there are place to go. What about that tower that has cyclopses withing the walls at the base. Saw that went there and was destroyed. that was fun. Or the tomb I saw on top of a mountain. Or that monastery that I flew to in the distance. Once came upon an area with yeti and stayed to do some fun quests. Or the islands in the distance that had lizard people who would sacrifice themselves. I even discovered a cave filled with spiders that led to some unknown (to me) quests. remember, music isn't just notes. It's also the silence between those notes.
Hey Sovrath,
I hear what you are saying, it fits that old "romantic" or classical notion of what MMO's should be like.
However VG has a few problems that really prevent it from being that.
1) It's totally static. Yes you can fly around and gallop around and the first time it is a expansive and somewhat refreshing however nothing changes. I mean nothing has changed at all. There is no dynamic element to VG whatso ever. The game lacks "life", it never feels alive at all. Even the NPC's just stand there for the mostpart.
2) It's confused. Crafting for example. There was a serious shortage of crafters last year when I played. So much that even buying arrows became an issue. Why? Because of loot. On top of it, loot that for the mostpart bound and was slightly better then crafted items. Now thats fine for a game like LotR or WoW but VG has one of the, if not THE most elaborate crafting of any game. So it undoes itself there. Dipolmacy...the forgotten sphere. Possiblly one of the better ideas not tied to an item shop these days. It could have been built on but it has been abandon.
3) Raids...SOE's tried and true lazy way out of everything. Rather then make a dynamic world all they did was throw in a huge time sink of a raid that is on a difficulty level designed to frustrate.
4) lacks any real purpose. You can build a ship, right? But why? It doesn't take you anywhere special, you can teleport everywhere now. You can't fight in it, you can't "adventure" in it...you can fish in it. Not a big motivator. You can build a house but again...why? No one looks at them, you can't do anything with them but decorate them. The original proposal was that you would be able to run shops and things out of them...that got bumped. The content, although some of it is "ok" the vast majority is "kill 10 rats" and recycle.
5) Factional system has no impact. What does it do? Stops you from getting a mount? Weee...maybe some NPC's attack you? It's only a point grinder system, typical of SOE's lazy way out of things. Look at SWG and EQ2, they did the same damn things in both of those games. Point collection systems. EQ2, collect 10 seashells and get a nice little prize, SWG, collect 8 Jabba boogers and you get a shiny object...or Ewok chocolate or something stupid like that...
6) oh, and the class system is not customizable which really hurts it. (unless they changed that recently)
VG was a missed opportunity IMHO. Just like so many other MMO's. SOE put the usual cookie cutter conventions in it a let it ride. They have done MORE to stagnate MMO's then anyone else in the genre.
See you in AION
1) Its dynamic in that you can alter the city buffs in a town via diplomacy. That a heck of a lot more impact that a player can have on their environment than I have seen in any other game PvE only)
2) I am surprised you had problems finding arrows. They just removed the ability from rangers to sell arrows.. because they where flooding the market. I would say that crafted items are about equal to drops. Even in lvl 50+ you can craft heroic items now that are are equal to the drops.
3) Raids are part of the end game and is the reason many people play the game becuas they enjoy the complexity and coordination it takes to beat the raid bosses. ... as it is in many other games.
4) Yup ships are pretty useless. They do make it easier to get around, especailly in Kojani. Most people get houses becuase they can keep chests for more storage. I have two houses with 5 chest in each, and they are mostly full with crafting supplies. This was ONE of the main reason people accuired houses in SWG. Both these items are important for people who wish to role play.
Yes there are kill the 10 rat quests, but there are also some very good quest sequals that are interesting and do have a purpose. I would be interested in you naming a hgame where the quests where more meaningful.
5) I really wish they had not changed the factional system, at one time it did have meaning, for the RP factor and especailly for Team PvP. Oh well..
6) Most of the classes are customizable. There are different paths you can take; like 3 different kinds of shaman, or 2 different kinds of rangers, or ? different kinds of monks, etc. They are planning on introducing Alternate Advancement.
Well, I will give you that up to the first two main areas, the world does seem linear. This is of course a shame. However, this game is NOT a grindfest.
more so because of the 1.5 content.
Believe me, I've played a grindfest and Aion is not it. As a matter of fact, I haven't experienced anything in Aion that was worse than vanguard. And I don't consider Vanguard a grind.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I decided not to make Vanguard my main game precisely because it seems to lack SoE's support. I'd rather not put hundreds of hours into something only to have it all magically disappear.
Great game though.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
They shut down ONE game so far.....so not much of a history, now NCSoft has a ruthless history of shutting games down. As far as the RMT, well everyone's doing it lol...and it's gonna get worse from here on.
We lost that fight as a community years ago.
Well they do have a history of abandoning games and leaving them without updates and development support for far longer than they should go. EQ-mac, EQOA, Plantetside, Matrix, etc.
It is better than seeing a game shut down, but it is still a shitty thing to do to customers who are paying an ongoing subscription fee.
havent people realized by now that SoE doesnt support its games mostly due to the fact that they cant allow a game to be doing better then its flagship series everquest? i mean lets face it, vanguard is leaps and bounds above EQ2.
You see, I don't want a world that's coverd in mobs. I get that from LOTRO and it's just plain garbage.
It's ok to travel and not be attacked or have to do anything other than travel.
The world IS huge. I'm talking space. And I like space. I have had so much fun just seeing something in the distance and going there. If there's something to do there great. If it's just a tower that I can go up and look around then great.
having a huge world just covered in mobs is as bad as a small world covered in mobs. worse in fact.
There is an ineffable feeling of getting on your (virtual) horse and just riding. Having to stop every 20 seconds to fight a mob or having to contend with being thrown from the horse sort of negates the reason to have a mount. In fact it makes it worse. Now I can rush to the next mob faster.
Sorry but I'll take my open world feeling with Vangaurd and take my encounters when they come.
Agreed.
The reason most games, unlike VG, have mobs spaced six inches apart is because a lot of players have very short attention spans. If there isn't something for them to kill every time they turn around, they get bored and quit.
VG is without question the largest mmo world currently in existence. Now if they'd only get rid of the silly-ass bind on equip nonsense in favor of a real player economy, I'd re-subscribe.
I agree with you 100% equipment bind and to beat a dead horse I've been dreaming of 3d UO *original* system MMO for years.
but I know better ... games like that will never be made and even if they did, it would be nerfed to hell because all the cry babies want instant gratification vs. challenge.
I'll just continue to play VG until sony screws me I guess. better than wasting money on the "elite" mmorgs that I hate.
Comments
Yes indeed welcome to the great asian invasion. I think Vanguard is the last of its kind, welcome to the wide world of Asian Mmorpgs. Even EQ2 has an Asian character model and WoW is very Asian looking in color and cartoony style.
Hey Sovrath,
I hear what you are saying, it fits that old "romantic" or classical notion of what MMO's should be like.
However VG has a few problems that really prevent it from being that.
1) It's totally static. Yes you can fly around and gallop around and the first time it is a expansive and somewhat refreshing however nothing changes. I mean nothing has changed at all. There is no dynamic element to VG whatso ever. The game lacks "life", it never feels alive at all. Even the NPC's just stand there for the mostpart.
2) It's confused. Crafting for example. There was a serious shortage of crafters last year when I played. So much that even buying arrows became an issue. Why? Because of loot. On top of it, loot that for the mostpart bound and was slightly better then crafted items. Now thats fine for a game like LotR or WoW but VG has one of the, if not THE most elaborate crafting of any game. So it undoes itself there. Dipolmacy...the forgotten sphere. Possiblly one of the better ideas not tied to an item shop these days. It could have been built on but it has been abandon.
3) Raids...SOE's tried and true lazy way out of everything. Rather then make a dynamic world all they did was throw in a huge time sink of a raid that is on a difficulty level designed to frustrate.
4) lacks any real purpose. You can build a ship, right? But why? It doesn't take you anywhere special, you can teleport everywhere now. You can't fight in it, you can't "adventure" in it...you can fish in it. Not a big motivator. You can build a house but again...why? No one looks at them, you can't do anything with them but decorate them. The original proposal was that you would be able to run shops and things out of them...that got bumped. The content, although some of it is "ok" the vast majority is "kill 10 rats" and recycle.
5) Factional system has no impact. What does it do? Stops you from getting a mount? Weee...maybe some NPC's attack you? It's only a point grinder system, typical of SOE's lazy way out of things. Look at SWG and EQ2, they did the same damn things in both of those games. Point collection systems. EQ2, collect 10 seashells and get a nice little prize, SWG, collect 8 Jabba boogers and you get a shiny object...or Ewok chocolate or something stupid like that...
VG was a missed opportunity IMHO. Just like so many other MMO's. SOE put the usual cookie cutter conventions in it a let it ride. They have done MORE to stagnate MMO's then anyone else in the genre.
See you in AION
Hey torak, glad you are going to be trying Aion! I'm sure I'll see you there.
I can't dispute what you say because in some ways they are very true. But for my puproses they are completely non issues.
1, I agree the game lacks life. I'm not sure if that is because they went with the old eq model or "what?" but there is a serenity to the whole thing. As I'm there just to explore, that doesn't really mean anything for me. However, players who are looking for a certain level of energy might not find it in Vanguard. That is true. Same thing with pick up groups or population.
I use it as my own personal playground.
2, I don't do crafting and I don't do diplomacy. However, the gear I've found on the auction house works fine and I have had no complaints. I can actually sell some of the gear that I find and usually do. I sell it for lower cost but it moves quicker and I have a little extra money in my pocket because of it.
3, I'll probably never raid in Vanguard and for the most part I've never been a huge fan of raiding outside of the social aspect or to say we've done it. Remember raiding in Lineage 2? some boss mob with a label of boss mob, everyone gathering around it and then the tank starts the raid. Not good at all. quite boring in my opinion. so I've yet to really experience a raid that would make me want to raid outside of just "doing it".
4, Not interested in ships or housing. I like the idea that one could run a shop out of a house but as we both know that might be a pain in the neck. one of the changes they've made to Vangaurd actually makes it playable for me and that's the porting. I get the idea of having a huge world and having to travel by boat or horse but the world of vanguard is so large that would essentially make the game unplayable. I don't mind porting to hubs and then traveling from there. Heck, I was able to find a leveling spot because of it. Otherwise it would have taken me, probably over a week or more just to find this spot. I don't find that compelling gameplay though it is realistic.
I don't pay attention to the factional stuff. So I haven't seen any real impact. Which of course might highlight its failure.
Essentially Vanguard is for me. Why? Becase it's a huge world that I can explore at my own pace and have some adventures. For players who are looking for an extremely dynamic world where pick up groups are the norm and the cities are crowded like stormreach, well, this is not for them.
Vanguard is a niche game and due to its failures and thus due to the decisions that rose from those failures will remain a niche game.
Honestly, had the game had a glowing launch I still don't think it would have been a success. It's basically a game that will have a hard and fast devoted playerbase. Albeit a small one. And one that plays for their own reasons.
I use it as my relaxing, secondary game. or tertiary even because I do have a lotro account.
However, Aion is more to my taste despite some flaws, and that will be my main game. But as I've said, I believe in supporting a game like vanguard because the more people who support it the more that devs might eventually consider making another game like it.
Essentially, I'm voting with my wallet.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
One of the main problems with Vanguard is the performance of the game , I am sure alot of people have played and just got tired of the lag and particularly the freeze problems. I have had a character run one way and all of a sudden I am running the complete oppisite. Yes this has gotten better since launch which was a lag nightmare but not good enough for a pay game.
Yes indeed welcome to the great asian invasion. I think Vanguard is the last of its kind, welcome to the wide world of Asian Mmorpgs. Even EQ2 has an Asian character model and WoW is very Asian looking in color and cartoony style.
Actually I rather like that style. I've yet to see a western game capture that epic feeling that eastern games have. Sure, they are over the top but I find that a lot more compelling than the prevalent brown that most western games seem to have.
I get that the eastern devs love the look of their games. They are excited about it. It's extreme but it shows a level of energy that is refreshing.
When I launched eq2 for the first time all I could think of was "ugh".
But that's a discussion for another thread I'm sure.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They did get rid of the majority of BoE quite some time ago
The market right now is very hot with enhancement items as many of the new weapons, gear etc. have a number of different customizable slots. Good days to be buying and selling.
I concur that Vanguard is a niche game and that relatively speaking it has a low population overall. But it only has 3 PvE servers and anyone of those servers feels alive and bustling. Vanguard offers a number of things no other MMO does as mentioned in the previous threads. As such, it will continue to be the best PvE MMO available for players that enjoy what it offers. Aion, WoW, AoC, WAR, <insert standard MMO here>, etc. will compete against each other, but Vanguard will enjoy being the only MMO available that caters to the EQ1 type crowd.
The downside to being a niche game is that SoE will never pour a ton of money into it because the potential market is much smaller than the standard MMO. The dev team is small, but dedicated and they just managed to push another new dungeon out this week. At least for me, I can't keep pace with the new content.
I agree. Not trolling, I have played the game, but something about it just didn't hold my interest. But it does seem to be the MMO sony doesn't care much for. It could be a great game if they would put more development on it...and perhaps a bit more advertizing. But as it is SOE pushes EQ and SWG more than anything...
SoE pushes SWG?? Yeah, pushes it right off a cliff!
EQ1 and 2 get real content and expansions. SWG gets pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts on their chests, fairy wings for players to wear and soon zombies.
If thats the kind of attention that SoE pushes on SWG then Id rather have them completely ignore it.
The only games SoE really cares about are EQ1/EQ2. All the other games are just little stupid red-haired step children in their minds.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
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ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I agree. Not trolling, I have played the game, but something about it just didn't hold my interest. But it does seem to be the MMO sony doesn't care much for. It could be a great game if they would put more development on it...and perhaps a bit more advertizing. But as it is SOE pushes EQ and SWG more than anything...
SoE pushes SWG?? Yeah, pushes it right off a cliff!
EQ1 and 2 get real content and expansions. SWG gets pink flying Ewoks with purple hearts on their chests, fairy wings for players to wear and soon zombies.
If thats the kind of attention that SoE pushes on SWG then Id rather have them completely ignore it.
The only games SoE really cares about are EQ1/EQ2. All the other games are just little stupid red-haired step children in their minds.
or gingers.
and we know we have to be careful about them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sovrath,
How are eastern games defined as more "Epic" ... I don't see it. The contrast that I see, is one looks more realistic "western" and "eastern" looks cartoony, like a cross between pokemon and Dead or Alive- what's epic about that?
Anyway, as a mmorpg gamer ... if sony shuts down another game, should be a clear sign not to invest time or energy into another one of their products. I mean why pay all this money to play one of their games and then if the going gets tough ... they 'll shut it down. Some how judging by their past decisions they haven't thought about this.
My only regret is I really like this game.
That's cool, if works for you, it works
Yeah I remember the L2 raids, it wasn't the raids themselves that it was about though, it was the fights that resulted during the raid lol. Some of the newer stuff isn't so simplistic but yeah, they were nothing to brag about....until some wiseguy took a swing at you or a guildie. L2 was never about the content, it was about the politics of the haves and have not's and control of the castles and resources, raid bosses were a resources hence something to fight over.
Which made all the difference
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed my time with VG (look at my blog here, I did some player interviews last year) but it lost it's edge with me mainly because of
All games come to an end once the cost to maintain exceeds subscribers interest in paying for them.
No telling if VG has reached that point yet, but its end is probably sooner than some other titles SOE manages like EQ2.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are plenty of games with larger game areas than Vanguard. SWG for one, WW2online and just a guess, but I bet everquest has more real estate with the 500 expansions it has seen. I'm sure there are more, but vanguards world is still rather big.
What makes the vanguard world larger than life is a few things. The viewing distance alone gives a great feeling to the world. Seeing a long way increases the feeling of the worlds size, where other games use fogs and things like that to limit view distances. Also there is very little wasted space in any given chunk. The artificial barriers in other games eay up a huge amount of game space. Imagine how much playable space would be lost if every chunk had some unpassable unaccessable mountain range surrounding its borders.
It is true there are some areas that are just devoid of anything. Some from due to early release and some due to estimating housing needs, but it is one of the better worlds to run around in. In my opinion it is the greatest strength of the game by a wide margin.
I bet the actual landmass of the game (excluding the water areas) is similar to most mmos, but it is utilized and presented in a much more effecient design. Something I think more games would profit from if adapted properly.
Well, that's a very good question. And it deserves a really good answer. Unfortunately I don't have one for you.
me saying that they look more epic was a very simplistic way of saying what perhaps several paragraphs would do better at.
One could go with the whole realistic vs cartoony, but in some ways one could say wow is cartoony and that is the most financially successful western game around.
I like to look at the differences in art design as stylized vs realism.
So getting back to question, I am NOT saying that stylized games are more "epic" looking than realistic games. But what I am saying is that due to all the attention to the characters and game worlds of many eastern games, I get the feeling that the artists just had fun and loved creating what they were creating. In that, if you wanted a bad ass sword, they gave you one that redefined what a bad ass sword really was. times 10.
the monsters are highly detailed or just whacked in some cases, the armor is decorated with all sorts of filigree, everything is created with the idea that this is your hero. And not just a hero but a HERO!
I get that they love their over the top creations and that there is a general excitement over their worlds. At least visually.
Now, since an epic is a story that is told in a high language and it also means heroic, the level of detail, of bombast, to me suggest that this highly detailed, over the top visual langauge is suggestive of something that is trully "epic".
they have defined, visually, what heroic is and they love enhancing that definitiion.
However, with many western games, I don't get that the artists or animators are as much in love with their creations so much as they are interested in making them real.
but as we know, in any story, saying that you caught a fish that was 6 inches is not as exciting as catchign one that is 24 inches. Having a one on one fight where you lose because you accidentally stepped off of a wall is not as exciting as being surrounded by an army and your little band picking off more than they but you losing because of attritiion.
epic stories are meant to be exciting and elevated. And visually I personally get that from eastern games more than western games.
You see, even though there is the drive for realism in many western games, I think something is lost in the translation. It's as if they took a book and decided to be so faithful to it that you get ALL the exposition and every little side story at the expense of turning it into a great movie.
so am I saying that realistic games can't be epic? No. Being over the top in their way makes a lot of sense, espeically with what we've seen of their cultural output.
However, the western games that I've played seem to forget that grand feel, that visual excitement that can really draw one in. If I'm going to swing a sword in a western game it's going to be slower than one in an eastern game. So then I want to feel the weight of the sword, I want to feel that it has reverberation on my opponent as well as me.
I've been playign a lot of oblvion and have a combat mod that makes the combat more realistic. I've had severl fights that truly felt like fights. They were long, the sound of metal on metal was such that I could feel it. Two opponents slugging it out. At one point I paused the game because I was just so taken with what I was experiencing. Me hitting their shield and recoiling because of the blow. Movingaround for a better access to the side and making a solid contact.
I don't get that visceral feeling in mmo games. regardless of the real time component of oblivion. Add to that that it all seems just a bit too bland.
It's as if a composer was asked to write a piece of music (or song for that matter) and got so caught up in the process and the clever usage of compositional elements that they forgot that music needs to also be listened to. It has to be "good" not just put together well.
There is a lack of the epic in western games. Or many western games. I don't feel that the artists and animators are truly in love with their creations, truly feel the excitement that they are supposed to generate.
And that is why this is a bad answer. Because it is personal opinion and therefore my answer.
not great but there it is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hey that's my line from work lol
Hey that's my line from work lol
LOL! I bet the love you there!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I decided not to make Vanguard my main game precisely because it seems to lack SoE's support. I'd rather not put hundreds of hours into something only to have it all magically disappear.
Great game though.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
Would be a shame. This game has some of the greatest gfx I've ever seen. But I guess this proves that most people don't care about gfx when it comes to gaming. For me, gfx are the most important thing and thats why I'm shallow
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
They shut down ONE game so far.....so not much of a history, now NCSoft has a ruthless history of shutting games down. As far as the RMT, well everyone's doing it lol...and it's gonna get worse from here on.
We lost that fight as a community years ago.
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
They shut down ONE game so far.....so not much of a history, now NCSoft has a ruthless history of shutting games down. As far as the RMT, well everyone's doing it lol...and it's gonna get worse from here on.
We lost that fight as a community years ago.
Maybe it's not the fear of the game being shut down that turned me away, but the lack of support. It seems like the game is the red-headed child that lives under the stairs. Does SoE even acknowledge that Vanguard exists? :S
If anything SOE should shut down the EQ2 as it was total crap of a game, and move the entire developement team to Vanguard... But I guess thats just my humble (truthful) opinion... Vanguard has so much potential...
Hey Sovrath,
I hear what you are saying, it fits that old "romantic" or classical notion of what MMO's should be like.
However VG has a few problems that really prevent it from being that.
1) It's totally static. Yes you can fly around and gallop around and the first time it is a expansive and somewhat refreshing however nothing changes. I mean nothing has changed at all. There is no dynamic element to VG whatso ever. The game lacks "life", it never feels alive at all. Even the NPC's just stand there for the mostpart.
2) It's confused. Crafting for example. There was a serious shortage of crafters last year when I played. So much that even buying arrows became an issue. Why? Because of loot. On top of it, loot that for the mostpart bound and was slightly better then crafted items. Now thats fine for a game like LotR or WoW but VG has one of the, if not THE most elaborate crafting of any game. So it undoes itself there. Dipolmacy...the forgotten sphere. Possiblly one of the better ideas not tied to an item shop these days. It could have been built on but it has been abandon.
3) Raids...SOE's tried and true lazy way out of everything. Rather then make a dynamic world all they did was throw in a huge time sink of a raid that is on a difficulty level designed to frustrate.
4) lacks any real purpose. You can build a ship, right? But why? It doesn't take you anywhere special, you can teleport everywhere now. You can't fight in it, you can't "adventure" in it...you can fish in it. Not a big motivator. You can build a house but again...why? No one looks at them, you can't do anything with them but decorate them. The original proposal was that you would be able to run shops and things out of them...that got bumped. The content, although some of it is "ok" the vast majority is "kill 10 rats" and recycle.
5) Factional system has no impact. What does it do? Stops you from getting a mount? Weee...maybe some NPC's attack you? It's only a point grinder system, typical of SOE's lazy way out of things. Look at SWG and EQ2, they did the same damn things in both of those games. Point collection systems. EQ2, collect 10 seashells and get a nice little prize, SWG, collect 8 Jabba boogers and you get a shiny object...or Ewok chocolate or something stupid like that...
6) oh, and the class system is not customizable which really hurts it. (unless they changed that recently)
VG was a missed opportunity IMHO. Just like so many other MMO's. SOE put the usual cookie cutter conventions in it a let it ride. They have done MORE to stagnate MMO's then anyone else in the genre.
See you in AION
1) Its dynamic in that you can alter the city buffs in a town via diplomacy. That a heck of a lot more impact that a player can have on their environment than I have seen in any other game PvE only)
2) I am surprised you had problems finding arrows. They just removed the ability from rangers to sell arrows.. because they where flooding the market. I would say that crafted items are about equal to drops. Even in lvl 50+ you can craft heroic items now that are are equal to the drops.
3) Raids are part of the end game and is the reason many people play the game becuas they enjoy the complexity and coordination it takes to beat the raid bosses. ... as it is in many other games.
4) Yup ships are pretty useless. They do make it easier to get around, especailly in Kojani. Most people get houses becuase they can keep chests for more storage. I have two houses with 5 chest in each, and they are mostly full with crafting supplies. This was ONE of the main reason people accuired houses in SWG. Both these items are important for people who wish to role play.
Yes there are kill the 10 rat quests, but there are also some very good quest sequals that are interesting and do have a purpose. I would be interested in you naming a hgame where the quests where more meaningful.
5) I really wish they had not changed the factional system, at one time it did have meaning, for the RP factor and especailly for Team PvP. Oh well..
6) Most of the classes are customizable. There are different paths you can take; like 3 different kinds of shaman, or 2 different kinds of rangers, or ? different kinds of monks, etc. They are planning on introducing Alternate Advancement.
Good luck with that Linear Asian Grindfest.
Well, I will give you that up to the first two main areas, the world does seem linear. This is of course a shame. However, this game is NOT a grindfest.
more so because of the 1.5 content.
Believe me, I've played a grindfest and Aion is not it. As a matter of fact, I haven't experienced anything in Aion that was worse than vanguard. And I don't consider Vanguard a grind.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This is an important consideration before starting a character on any older MMOG especially with a company such as SOE that has a history of shutting down less profitable games and a willingness to corrupt all their products because of greed, with various form of RMT to the detriment of gameplay.
They shut down ONE game so far.....so not much of a history, now NCSoft has a ruthless history of shutting games down. As far as the RMT, well everyone's doing it lol...and it's gonna get worse from here on.
We lost that fight as a community years ago.
Well they do have a history of abandoning games and leaving them without updates and development support for far longer than they should go. EQ-mac, EQOA, Plantetside, Matrix, etc.
It is better than seeing a game shut down, but it is still a shitty thing to do to customers who are paying an ongoing subscription fee.
/rolls eyes
havent people realized by now that SoE doesnt support its games mostly due to the fact that they cant allow a game to be doing better then its flagship series everquest? i mean lets face it, vanguard is leaps and bounds above EQ2.
You see, I don't want a world that's coverd in mobs. I get that from LOTRO and it's just plain garbage.
It's ok to travel and not be attacked or have to do anything other than travel.
The world IS huge. I'm talking space. And I like space. I have had so much fun just seeing something in the distance and going there. If there's something to do there great. If it's just a tower that I can go up and look around then great.
having a huge world just covered in mobs is as bad as a small world covered in mobs. worse in fact.
There is an ineffable feeling of getting on your (virtual) horse and just riding. Having to stop every 20 seconds to fight a mob or having to contend with being thrown from the horse sort of negates the reason to have a mount. In fact it makes it worse. Now I can rush to the next mob faster.
Sorry but I'll take my open world feeling with Vangaurd and take my encounters when they come.
Agreed.
The reason most games, unlike VG, have mobs spaced six inches apart is because a lot of players have very short attention spans. If there isn't something for them to kill every time they turn around, they get bored and quit.
VG is without question the largest mmo world currently in existence. Now if they'd only get rid of the silly-ass bind on equip nonsense in favor of a real player economy, I'd re-subscribe.
I agree with you 100% equipment bind and to beat a dead horse I've been dreaming of 3d UO *original* system MMO for years.
but I know better ... games like that will never be made and even if they did, it would be nerfed to hell because all the cry babies want instant gratification vs. challenge.
I'll just continue to play VG until sony screws me I guess. better than wasting money on the "elite" mmorgs that I hate.