Well I am giving my opinion on the experiences I've had in China beta and in the NA beta we're playing now.
The ranger does have a good burst damage, but then the damage goes so low that you don't do enough damage to be able to kill your target, even a sorcerer. You will not kill a same level toon within the first 5 seconds, and if the fight lasts 10 seconds, then the sorcerer will have outdamaged the ranger. Because for example I will give just random numbers.
Range does 500dmg first 5 seconds, sorcerer does 400dmg. In the last 5 seconds the ranger will do 100dmg while the sorcerer will still do 400dmg. As I said these numbers are just given randomly as examples. So at the end of the fight the ranger would lose.
I do think that if played right, the assassin would kill these 2 classes, but if the get to CC him before he kills them, then the assassin is toast.
So I think that at the end of the day, it all goes down to how you play the class. And as some people stated, in this game you will not be doing much solo PvP.
As for why I think the ranger is the weakest, it's because out of the 3 it's got the lowest full fight damage ratio. Again random examples, in a 6 vs 6 fight of equal levels of players of same skills in a half hour fight. The DPS will go to Sorcerer, then assassin then ranger. Sorcerer over assassin just because sorcerer can change targets without having to move to the target, so assassin will be wasting time going fromt arget to target.
I made a asmodian Ranger during the 3rd CB, and got it to level 15, but it was a struggle. With having to buy arrows and seeds, I was/am eternally poor. However, I learned a few things later when I made a Elyos Sorcerer in CB 4... selling things on auction house is a GOOD thing, even the normal "white" items can sell for quite a bit more than merchants will pay for them (At least during these betas anyways). The sorcerer is FAR easier to solo however.
Now, this is only my impression of PvE sorc vs Ranger.... and I got the sorc to 23 and the ranger is stil stuck at 15.
I've heard the same things I've read here where the Ranger starts kicking more butt once you hit the mid 30's, etc, but wow, in the mean time, what a grind it would be to get there.
Well I am giving my opinion on the experiences I've had in China beta and in the NA beta we're playing now. The ranger does have a good burst damage, but then the damage goes so low that you don't do enough damage to be able to kill your target, even a sorcerer. You will not kill a same level toon within the first 5 seconds, and if the fight lasts 10 seconds, then the sorcerer will have outdamaged the ranger. Because for example I will give just random numbers. Range does 500dmg first 5 seconds, sorcerer does 400dmg. In the last 5 seconds the ranger will do 100dmg while the sorcerer will still do 400dmg. As I said these numbers are just given randomly as examples. So at the end of the fight the ranger would lose. I do think that if played right, the assassin would kill these 2 classes, but if the get to CC him before he kills them, then the assassin is toast. So I think that at the end of the day, it all goes down to how you play the class. And as some people stated, in this game you will not be doing much solo PvP. As for why I think the ranger is the weakest, it's because out of the 3 it's got the lowest full fight damage ratio. Again random examples, in a 6 vs 6 fight of equal levels of players of same skills in a half hour fight. The DPS will go to Sorcerer, then assassin then ranger. Sorcerer over assassin just because sorcerer can change targets without having to move to the target, so assassin will be wasting time going fromt arget to target. Peace
Is this from cap level experiance?
Also how much more range does the ranger have over the sorc?
If the Sorc out dpses the Ranger by THAT much and has superior cc... im afraid im going to have to ask what's the point in being a Ranger then? To my understanding the Ranger is also more fragile.
If the dps is not better than a Sorc and it has lower util and survivability... I don't see why to play one. Simply going off your example.
i've been playing a ranger on the beta, and its now almost level 30. honestly, its pretty hard to play. PVE kinda sucks cuz ur main advantage is kiting, and thats just survivability. not a lot of damage till the 20's... im pretty sure sorcs rape PVE. but during pvp, right now at level 30, i'd say its about even. whoever ambushes the other one will win.. actually i've been one hitted plenty of times by sorcs. well my armor sucks, but even with good armor 2 shots will kill me.. probably. if u want to solo gank early game, sorcs are probably better. its just pewpew dead. rangers, not so much. not enough dps to kill most classes. although i heard rangers get beastly late game, which is why im playing it. in the end, its up to u. PVE well and rape early game, or wait till u rape end game?
Your question about why play ranger if sorcerors are better is kind of off. I mean, why play sorcerors if rangers are better right? Some prefer different types of gameplay, not just what does more damage
ranger has the ability to hide, which is a HUGE ability in a pvp situation, a sorcerer does not, making him a live target, so if you play your ranger smart, majority of the time, you should be the one striking first, and thats the biggest advantage of pvp.
Tenken, Your question about why play ranger if sorcerors are better is kind of off. I mean, why play sorcerors if rangers are better right? Some prefer different types of gameplay, not just what does more damage
Not really Soup. If you paid attention I stated that Sorcs have higher surviv and cc. If ranger beats them in damage there's still a reason to play both.
If the Sorc is superior in all three areas I'd rather be the Sorc.
I enjoy being range dps, but if the ranger's burst damage is not sufficient it does not seem to do anything very well except for kiting. My main interest in the class was the frontal damage it could provide and the fact that it was range.
It's like saying why play a Templar if a Gladitor is just as tough, has more dps, and can aoe damage? (assuming this were true)
Obviously something is not right about the Sorc and Ranger stuff. That's why I was asking.
Oh, yeah the cc and survivability I agree.. just your question about why playing one class if the does more dps sounded odd. The rest of your post made sense.
I played in the 40s, so yeah I played some endgame PvP.
In terms of who is a better class, sorc is a much better class, whatever style you take. The game is new, and classes are not all balanced. Ranger is not that bad now, but if you would've tried it in Chinese beta, then you would've asked why even have it in the game
It's DPS was less than even most healer and tank classes.
But as it is now, the only reason anyone would play the ranger is that like one of the poster said, it's got hide which gives an advantage. Also you do not always play classes just because they're the strongest. You play what you like to play, personally, I will be playing the spiritmaster, which have a huge disadvantage in endgame PvP where a lot of people would have mastered flying. Because the pets do not fly, and a spiritmaster without it's pet is a dead spiritmaster. But I will still play it because I like playing caster pet classes.
The ranger right now is not worth playing, but do not forget that in all games there's always a weak class at release that end up being one of the strongest after they buff the class.
If you are going to mainly solo-PvP, go Ranger because they have stealth and can get the jump on people.
If you going to mainly do group PvP, go Sorcerer or Ranger, which ever one you find more fun.
A lot changes have been made to combat for v1.5, no one really knows yet how it's going to impact each class; so my best advice is just to play whatever class you find fun.
I would try them both to about 16-20. By that time you get a pretty good idea of how the class works and it only takes a few days to a week depending on how much you play.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
If you are going to mainly solo-PvP, go Ranger because they have stealth and can get the jump on people. If you going to mainly do group PvP, go Sorcerer or Ranger, which ever one you find more fun. A lot changes have been made to combat for v1.5, no one really knows yet how it's going to impact each class; so my best advice is just to play whatever class you find fun. I would try them both to about 16-20. By that time you get a pretty good idea of how the class works and it only takes a few days to a week depending on how much you play.
well, if you want stealth, wouldnt assasin be more effective...
whats the difference between assassin's stealth and ranger's stealth? isnt it the exact same thing? rangers are just as good as ambushing as assassins are... although they do less damage, they've got KB's, stuns, and slows and not to mention they're ranged, making it a lot easier to chase.. my ideal gank team would be one assassin and one ranger.
Well the stealth in this game is limited, you stealth for a limited amount of time and then the stealth vanishes and people can see you again. And the ability have a long cooldown.
If you stealth in front of the enemy and get close enough, he will see you, but if you're in the back, then he won't.
When I said that as a stealth class assassin is better than the ranger it's because of the DPS. Assassin's DPS is much higher than the ranger's, so that's why I would say Sin over ranger if you want to play a stealther. You can always play any of them as I said before, but me personally, I prefer the assassin.
And btw, in Aion, as an assassin, you do not play a hit and run strategy because you will die. Your objective is to bring down your enemy as fast as you can or you die. So it's hit hit hit hit kill or die when you sneak on people, they will try to CC you, stun, root, or whatever. So you better try and put all your arsenal out right there at that moment before they get too far from you. Because from range the sin sucks bad, yeah they can use bows, but they will only tickle with a bow.
So in conclusion, you can play both classes as stealther, it comes back to the golden rule, whatever interests you the most, play it. It is a game after all and it's about having fun.
sry but i only read few of the posts of this threat, but i will wrote my opinion and facts anyway.
Sorc is a amazing constant dps (im playing one at cn-AION), when i say constant i mean u know what damage i will make if i dont miss, cause sorc (at leat on 1.0 from china) cant critical. U will have a lot of skills to keep enemy in distance, cause if he get close u are in trouble.
In the end, if u use the correct sequence and u dont have miss's u know what is the result of ur attack.
Ranger, say it by a friend that play cn-AION whith me, u never know what damage u will make, cause the interval of damage is high and u live a lot from critical's, so it seams more luck base on this matter. in other hand, u will have a lot of instante skills, maybe it means more activity on fight, or at leat u can be the most anoying class to fight in pvp. Sorc is more stand stil to shoot, ranger is more running and shoot.
Sorc = use skills to keep target far
ranger= run to keep target far
Note: my experience is only until 30, my ranger friend is 32. Dont know if things are diferent in higher lvls.
I think it might be important to point out that Ranger is the only class (besides, perhaps, Assassins) that can see a toon in stealth mode. So as a Ranger (Assassin?) you should technically never be the victim of an unfortunate sneak attack.
How about this. Instead of playing the "most powerful" class, you try them all for a couple of levels and pick the one that is the most FUN to you? Stop worrying about " the best" it is a subjective term. Besides, every class will get changed/nerfed/15 Minutes of Fame eventually. If you want to play a game based on how good it can make you look then you are wasting your time, you will never be satisfied.
Couple of levels? Seriously?
It takes 2-5 hours just to get to level 10 and then you need to get to at least level 13, which is another 3-5 hours, just to figure out how the class might be designed to play. I say "might be designed", because for some classes, like ranger, you will not fully understand class dynamics until much later in the game. So, take these 5-10 hours and multiply it by 8. Some people just don't have that kind of time.
It takes less than an hour to read through the skill list of classes to get a feel for how they are. A much more easier way to see how they will be like.
Comments
Well I am giving my opinion on the experiences I've had in China beta and in the NA beta we're playing now.
The ranger does have a good burst damage, but then the damage goes so low that you don't do enough damage to be able to kill your target, even a sorcerer. You will not kill a same level toon within the first 5 seconds, and if the fight lasts 10 seconds, then the sorcerer will have outdamaged the ranger. Because for example I will give just random numbers.
Range does 500dmg first 5 seconds, sorcerer does 400dmg. In the last 5 seconds the ranger will do 100dmg while the sorcerer will still do 400dmg. As I said these numbers are just given randomly as examples. So at the end of the fight the ranger would lose.
I do think that if played right, the assassin would kill these 2 classes, but if the get to CC him before he kills them, then the assassin is toast.
So I think that at the end of the day, it all goes down to how you play the class. And as some people stated, in this game you will not be doing much solo PvP.
As for why I think the ranger is the weakest, it's because out of the 3 it's got the lowest full fight damage ratio. Again random examples, in a 6 vs 6 fight of equal levels of players of same skills in a half hour fight. The DPS will go to Sorcerer, then assassin then ranger. Sorcerer over assassin just because sorcerer can change targets without having to move to the target, so assassin will be wasting time going fromt arget to target.
Peace
thank you
thats what i was looking for
I made a asmodian Ranger during the 3rd CB, and got it to level 15, but it was a struggle. With having to buy arrows and seeds, I was/am eternally poor. However, I learned a few things later when I made a Elyos Sorcerer in CB 4... selling things on auction house is a GOOD thing, even the normal "white" items can sell for quite a bit more than merchants will pay for them (At least during these betas anyways). The sorcerer is FAR easier to solo however.
Now, this is only my impression of PvE sorc vs Ranger.... and I got the sorc to 23 and the ranger is stil stuck at 15.
I've heard the same things I've read here where the Ranger starts kicking more butt once you hit the mid 30's, etc, but wow, in the mean time, what a grind it would be to get there.
Is this from cap level experiance?
Also how much more range does the ranger have over the sorc?
If the Sorc out dpses the Ranger by THAT much and has superior cc... im afraid im going to have to ask what's the point in being a Ranger then? To my understanding the Ranger is also more fragile.
If the dps is not better than a Sorc and it has lower util and survivability... I don't see why to play one. Simply going off your example.
Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
http://aionfactions.homelinux.com
i've been playing a ranger on the beta, and its now almost level 30. honestly, its pretty hard to play. PVE kinda sucks cuz ur main advantage is kiting, and thats just survivability. not a lot of damage till the 20's... im pretty sure sorcs rape PVE. but during pvp, right now at level 30, i'd say its about even. whoever ambushes the other one will win.. actually i've been one hitted plenty of times by sorcs. well my armor sucks, but even with good armor 2 shots will kill me.. probably. if u want to solo gank early game, sorcs are probably better. its just pewpew dead. rangers, not so much. not enough dps to kill most classes. although i heard rangers get beastly late game, which is why im playing it. in the end, its up to u. PVE well and rape early game, or wait till u rape end game?
You like rape way too much.
Tenken,
Your question about why play ranger if sorcerors are better is kind of off. I mean, why play sorcerors if rangers are better right? Some prefer different types of gameplay, not just what does more damage
ranger has the ability to hide, which is a HUGE ability in a pvp situation, a sorcerer does not, making him a live target, so if you play your ranger smart, majority of the time, you should be the one striking first, and thats the biggest advantage of pvp.
Not really Soup. If you paid attention I stated that Sorcs have higher surviv and cc. If ranger beats them in damage there's still a reason to play both.
If the Sorc is superior in all three areas I'd rather be the Sorc.
I enjoy being range dps, but if the ranger's burst damage is not sufficient it does not seem to do anything very well except for kiting. My main interest in the class was the frontal damage it could provide and the fact that it was range.
It's like saying why play a Templar if a Gladitor is just as tough, has more dps, and can aoe damage? (assuming this were true)
Obviously something is not right about the Sorc and Ranger stuff. That's why I was asking.
Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
http://aionfactions.homelinux.com
Oh, yeah the cc and survivability I agree.. just your question about why playing one class if the does more dps sounded odd. The rest of your post made sense.
Sleep is a 6 second cast time. Easily interrupted. Sorc is the first target in group pvp. Having the ability to hide would really come in handy a lot.
I played in the 40s, so yeah I played some endgame PvP.
In terms of who is a better class, sorc is a much better class, whatever style you take. The game is new, and classes are not all balanced. Ranger is not that bad now, but if you would've tried it in Chinese beta, then you would've asked why even have it in the game
It's DPS was less than even most healer and tank classes.
But as it is now, the only reason anyone would play the ranger is that like one of the poster said, it's got hide which gives an advantage. Also you do not always play classes just because they're the strongest. You play what you like to play, personally, I will be playing the spiritmaster, which have a huge disadvantage in endgame PvP where a lot of people would have mastered flying. Because the pets do not fly, and a spiritmaster without it's pet is a dead spiritmaster. But I will still play it because I like playing caster pet classes.
The ranger right now is not worth playing, but do not forget that in all games there's always a weak class at release that end up being one of the strongest after they buff the class.
Peace
If you are going to mainly solo-PvP, go Ranger because they have stealth and can get the jump on people.
If you going to mainly do group PvP, go Sorcerer or Ranger, which ever one you find more fun.
A lot changes have been made to combat for v1.5, no one really knows yet how it's going to impact each class; so my best advice is just to play whatever class you find fun.
I would try them both to about 16-20. By that time you get a pretty good idea of how the class works and it only takes a few days to a week depending on how much you play.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
well, if you want stealth, wouldnt assasin be more effective...
Yes, if you want to play a stealthy type of play, stealth and ambush, then go assassin no doubt about it...
whats the difference between assassin's stealth and ranger's stealth? isnt it the exact same thing? rangers are just as good as ambushing as assassins are... although they do less damage, they've got KB's, stuns, and slows and not to mention they're ranged, making it a lot easier to chase.. my ideal gank team would be one assassin and one ranger.
Ok I got a question, its been stated that 1v1 assasins will most likely kill both sorcs and rangers.
Its also true that rangers and assasins have stealth.
So onto my questions, for starters is there some way of detecting stealth or detecting other stealthers as a stealther?
Are rangers and assasins really going to be fighting that much if assasins are a hit and run stealth class and rangers also having stealth?
Well the stealth in this game is limited, you stealth for a limited amount of time and then the stealth vanishes and people can see you again. And the ability have a long cooldown.
If you stealth in front of the enemy and get close enough, he will see you, but if you're in the back, then he won't.
When I said that as a stealth class assassin is better than the ranger it's because of the DPS. Assassin's DPS is much higher than the ranger's, so that's why I would say Sin over ranger if you want to play a stealther. You can always play any of them as I said before, but me personally, I prefer the assassin.
And btw, in Aion, as an assassin, you do not play a hit and run strategy because you will die. Your objective is to bring down your enemy as fast as you can or you die. So it's hit hit hit hit kill or die
when you sneak on people, they will try to CC you, stun, root, or whatever. So you better try and put all your arsenal out right there at that moment before they get too far from you. Because from range the sin sucks bad, yeah they can use bows, but they will only tickle with a bow.
So in conclusion, you can play both classes as stealther, it comes back to the golden rule, whatever interests you the most, play it. It is a game after all and it's about having fun.
I saw a youtube video of this and the ranger won easily.
sry but i only read few of the posts of this threat, but i will wrote my opinion and facts anyway.
Sorc is a amazing constant dps (im playing one at cn-AION), when i say constant i mean u know what damage i will make if i dont miss, cause sorc (at leat on 1.0 from china) cant critical. U will have a lot of skills to keep enemy in distance, cause if he get close u are in trouble.
In the end, if u use the correct sequence and u dont have miss's u know what is the result of ur attack.
Ranger, say it by a friend that play cn-AION whith me, u never know what damage u will make, cause the interval of damage is high and u live a lot from critical's, so it seams more luck base on this matter. in other hand, u will have a lot of instante skills, maybe it means more activity on fight, or at leat u can be the most anoying class to fight in pvp. Sorc is more stand stil to shoot, ranger is more running and shoot.
Sorc = use skills to keep target far
ranger= run to keep target far
Note: my experience is only until 30, my ranger friend is 32. Dont know if things are diferent in higher lvls.
Just to clear up a little bit about Ranger and Assassin stealth. It is not the same. Assassins get a higher level of stealth at level 34, Hide II.
Ranger Stealth:
Hide I: 40% move speed debuff, detectable by normal hide detection (most classes)
Assassin Stealth:
Hide II: 20% move speed debuff, detectable by advanced hide detection (sin and ranger only)
Shadow Walk: level 45 assassin stigma, puts you into hide II state for 5 minutes, 3 minute cooldown.
Wind Walk: level 31 assassin DP skill, puts you into hide II for 10-20 seconds, 30 minute cooldown, 3000 dp cost (usable in combat)
oh ok thanks.
One has a bow...
I think it might be important to point out that Ranger is the only class (besides, perhaps, Assassins) that can see a toon in stealth mode. So as a Ranger (Assassin?) you should technically never be the victim of an unfortunate sneak attack.
Couple of levels? Seriously?
It takes 2-5 hours just to get to level 10 and then you need to get to at least level 13, which is another 3-5 hours, just to figure out how the class might be designed to play. I say "might be designed", because for some classes, like ranger, you will not fully understand class dynamics until much later in the game. So, take these 5-10 hours and multiply it by 8. Some people just don't have that kind of time.
It takes less than an hour to read through the skill list of classes to get a feel for how they are. A much more easier way to see how they will be like.