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WoW Clone!
Golarum
Member Posts: 151
So you read the title and really wanted to know what it was about...
I have been playing MMOs since the release of Meridian 59 in 1996, I'm not very old, I just started playing at a young age hehehe! Then I got to Everquest, DAoC, AC and many others.
I played EVERY mmorpg that was ever released in NA or global. Either F2P or P2P. Yes I played them ALL.
I do not post a lot, but for years I've been following news and posts, I read a lot of player comments on forums and the stupidest comments I have ever read and that has become a kind of a trend to post on the forums is the :"This is a WoW clone" post.
Today I saw another post like that as a reply to an article about the Chronicles of Spellborn, I am not defending that article by the way because I did not like that game, it just kind of made me wanna come here and explain to everyone something.
Now the first question I have is this: If you clone a clone, are you a clone of the original product or a clone of the clone of the original product? lol
Blizzard did not bring a single original product to the industry, don't get me wrong, I love their games, except for WoW of course. Diablo was a copy of Ultima VIII and warcraft was a copy of Dune II. What blizzard does is take games that had a certain impact and copy them with a different setting and hype them like crazy and sell them. In a business point of view that is really great, they do not offer the best product, they do not spend millions on developping something original, but they sell like crazy.
It's like apple with the Ipod, Creative makes the best mp3 players on the market by far, they completely surpass any Ipod in terms of quality, but do not sell as much as the Ipod because of all the publicity and hype that Apple spends money on. And the customer is stupid, he believes anything the TV tells him.
Now back to my original post, the comment that ignorant players keep posting about every game being a WoW clone is completely stupid and makes no sense, since WoW itself is an EQ (Everquest) clone. Some people say Everquest is a clone of other games that came before it, but it's not and I'll tell you why.
Everquest was the FIRST game to introduce the real mmorpg experience, with thousands upon thousands of players playing on different servers, a complete 3D game, the questing system it had, the raids, the guilds, etc. The way that mmorpgs are today, all are derived from the original EQ. I am sorry UO fans, UO was a good game, but it's got nothing to do with the mmorpg model we know today.
Actually the only WoW clone on the market today is Runes of Magic, that is a real WoW clone. Nothing else is. They are all games inspired by Everquest. Even though I think that, you will never see me go on every forum and post that every game is an EQ clone, because it's just plain stupid.
I know that there will be a lot of trolls replying here, I know that some people wll just hate on me, but I don't care, I wanted to express my point of view and give all the fanboys and fangirls the facts about the origin of mmorpgs as we see them today (I'm not talking about old school MUDs, it's the model we are playing today).
Comments
I agree. Well put.
I am not saying that I know the context that each and every person speaks in, when calling MMORPG's a WoW Clone, but I think that many are speaking in the context of how so many games are following suit with what they feel is the 'dumbing down' of the MMO Genre, and catering to casual gamers, and are not necessarily speaking of game mechanics when calling a game a WoW clone.
Let's face it EQ wasn't for casual gamers it required a lot of time and effort, but with WoW just about anyone can jump in and basically quest their way to end game. And many other MMORPG's seem to be following suit, as there tend to be more casual gamers now-a-days than there are the old hardcore gamers.. Just my opinion.
Good post OP.
We could call every First Person Shooter a clone of which ever one was first or first to be popular. But instead people just call it a genre. Because that's what it is.
And don't even get me started and this misuse of sandbox and themepark around here.
As an offender of using the term WoW clone I will explain to you what it means.
It has nothing to do with end game content, and everything to do with the mindless, boring way people level in those games. A WOW clone is shallow where the leveling process is merely there to annoy instead of entertain.
To call WoW an EQ clone(as it was back in '99-'04) clearly demonstrates you have no clue what the term WoW clone means. It doesn't mean a fanstasy game that has levels and gear. It means a game that has boring quest, requires no grouping, and can basically be played to max level by a 6 year old. EQ/UO/DAoC were not those types of games.
/agree - nicely said.
The whole 'clone' discussions and usage in reviews are nauseating...its like calling all cars a Ford because they have a steering wheel, engine, tires, etc. Enough of the 'C' word, a little more work is required for a proper review of a game rather than calling that Honda a Ford...c'mon.
Awesome response, you win the big prize for creativity.
@ Emeraq
I understand and somewhat agree with what you're saying, but let's face it, most of the people call a game a wow clone before even knowing what the game is. There's an article released about a release of a game, we have no screenshots, no storyline, no features, we know nothing and some people start calling it a WoW clone. And these are mainly the people I'm talking about.
@ Greenchaos
Unfortunately, people pick up words from here and there without knowing what they mean and use them randomly in sentences. A while ago there was an article about the most misused words in the mmorpg world, it was an interesting article.
@ Brostyn
Taken from wiki: "A video game clone is a video game or game series which is very similar to or heavily inspired by a previous popular game or game series. Some video game genres are founded by such archetypal games that all subsequent similar games are thought of as derivatives."
When I said WoW and most games with the mmorpg standards of today are EQ clones, I am talking about the general concept of the game, the idea of having a 3D game where you create your own character, customize him, level him, gear him, join groups, join a guild, raid, advance the game content, etc. That is what I actually meant in my post. Not about the quality of the game, believe me, EQ is very close to my heart when it comes to gaming and I would never say WoW and EQ are the of the same quality. NEVER.
And I also stated at the end of my post that you don't see me going around and saying games are EQ clones, I just said that if you insist on calling a game a clone, then call it an EQ clone and not a WoW clone.
Allinan, nice response and I agree with you
But first gas powered car as we see it today and not the old steam engine cars was first created by Gottlieb Daimler and Karl Benz. So the car we know as Mercedes is technically the first car not ford
Ford was the first to mass produce cars.
I stand corrected, we all drive Merceds clones
And all three of those games are still up and running by the way. Just wanted to add my 6 year old 2 cents...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
And all three of those games are still up and running by the way. Just wanted to add my 6 year old 2 cents...
Yes they are and they still have a pretty decent player base too.
I use the term "WoW Clone" quite freely, and I really don't think people who oppose the term understand what is really meant by it.
By their very nature, MMORPGs are all relatively the same. The class/skill based, monster grind, tradeskilling, broker playing routine is comonplace in every MMORPG, hence that's what makes it a genre.
When you get down to it, Unreal Tournament is no different than Quake and Call of Duty is no different from Medal of Honor as they all take place in relatively the same sort of world and all inolve shooting people, yet they are fundamentally different games, and they are such not by the features which they share, but by the way they approach their shared features. EQ has quests just as WoW has quests, yet WoW plays significantly different than EQ because progress in the game is largely structured by completion of quests unlike EQ where the majority of the game was a grind until players did the quest for the epic weapon. In EQ, it would sometimes take months to get as little as five levels once a player got to the higher levels, but that time was lessened significantly in WoW.
WoW "did" innovate, but not in the way that most people think it did. I get sick of hearing game reviewers review WoW as if it were the first game to ever come up with the very concepts which are staples of the genre, because it wasn't. The innovation of WoW comes in just how Blizzard refined standard MMORPG elements to appeal to just about anyone, gamer or no and not just former MUD players, role players, or D&D fanatics.
When I use the word WoW clone, I don't mean that it is a clone in terms of what makes up the core aspects of MMORPGs, but how the quest structure (ie go here for 5 quests then get sent here) is set up, how many MMORPGs these days set up their UI and map system to almost mirror WoW down to the tiniest detail (looking at you LoTRO). So many MMORPGs these days are almost no different than WoW with only a skin applied over the world. Sure, some of the classes are different and the locations are vastly different, but the game is laid out in almost the exact same fashion.
MMORPGs released prior to WoW other than EQ, did follow a similar formula, but they all were famous for their own thing. The big three of the day EQ, DAoC, and UO were all pretty fundamentally different experiences, with the only similarities lying in just how a character progresses. Even though UO was skill based, players still had to kill them repeatedly for loot and XP, tradeskills had to be grinded through to max, and players still grouped up to alleviate the grind. The difference was each game had a bit of its own hook. EQ had the highest amount of players, arguably the most difficult gameplay, and a world still unrivaled in sheer size. DAoC had some of the best PVP yet seen in an MMORPG, and UO was pretty much a "go anywhere, do anything" experience that wasn't quite as structured as UO and EQ.
Developers saw WoW's success and instead of trying to come up with new ideas to refresh the genre, they follow WoW's formula almost to the letter in hopes of attracting some of that playerbase. It's honestly almost to the point of where the features of WoW have become integrated into the genre itself, as if the game isn't even an MMO unless it is designed to emulate Warcraft in every way possible.
I thin the OP is right. the term WoW clone is used waaaaay too much. Sure people use it rightly to describe the "dumbing down" of a genre, but way too many people use it to explain interface, controls, and the base mechanics of quests and applying a "turn base" board game into a video game.
Alot of people just don't like the mmo genre at all but they just think its games copying blizzard.
Just coin the term "clone" for anything and everything replicated in games and then reused in others. Really it boils down to, 'who cares'. Literally people who want constant Indy titles & completely new ideas for things vastly more complex than know and/or for well defined standards, need to get over it.
If people enjoy it and you copy it, as long as you cant be sued on it...really it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. Those who are not happy because its not "innovative" would be just as pissed if the game's innovation wasn't to expectation; and those who loved the old, will either love it again as its reused or hate that its not 100% the same. And the 1% that would love the new innovation, wont be enough to keep you making games or paying salaries.
EQ is a great game, but really why spend years of development and money if really you are just cloning concepts? The real reason is they arent (as much as you think), no matter how much you think they are - and tis because good concepts have been done AND reuse...really at the end of the day is NOT a bad thing. Gaming is a business world full of gamers with far too high of expectations. Enjoy the good, flame the bad, but get over it if you've seen it before...really, we all know - just like it or hate it, like the last time you saw it.
In truth - I wish there were more remakes and direct clones of the good: revamped graphic engines and a tid bit expanse on content. Less risk, less cost, and most likely good returns. And in the end, people will still misuse the term clone...and all that matters is if the game is fun for you - bottom line
And all three of those games are still up and running by the way. Just wanted to add my 6 year old 2 cents...
Well i hate to break it to you but WOW is 99% a EQ clone,all they did different is add more XP, easier rewards for the weak gamer that only likes quests.WOW also introduced the cheapest form of game design known to developers and that is tons of easily accessed INSTANCES.
Eq was more a traditional MMORPG with all the elements,UO and DAOC are not the same type of games at all,especially DAOC witch is a PVP based game.Eq is full of LORE and quest lines,again all of that WOW copied.I mean look at how WOW came about,former EQ players,they did not even know what they wanted to do with their game,hence why they did little to no creativity.They rehashed the whole WARCRAFT image with EQ mechanics,easy to implement because they were 100% familar with both.As far as EQ/DAOC and UO go,they are barely surviving,not games i would recommend for any new gamer.
An ACTUAL WOW clone would be a game that copies it in high reward meaningless quests,and tons of instances and lots of mounts.ROM is actually a game i feel the devs 100% were influenced by WOW ,i am sure they were WOW players.That game tried to implement FFXI's sub class system but on a large fail,and also tries to implement EQ's quest lines ,that it does quite well,it even copies a few of EQ's quest names,but for the most part it is a WOW influenced game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As it says in the wiki deffinition, clone is inspired by a previous popular game, which is WoW and not EQ. WoW brought millions of players to the genre and not EQ, WoW was the first MMO to most of today's MMO player. Most of them doesn't even know that other MMO exist or existed.
It's like Coke, it's not Coke, it's Cola, but people goes to restaurant and order a Coke and the waitress says: We only have Pepsi, Oh ok, say thing. But it's not, yes it is a soft drink, dark color, bubble and sweet, but it doesn't taste the same at all. But people keep calling it a Coke.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
I know a lot of developers try and imitate Blizzard's success. I wish they would take to heart the aspect that Blizzard does better than any other developer. They polish their product. So when Blizzard releases a game you know that at least will be playable and there will be a minimum of bugs. I know WoW had problems at launch (understandable), but at least they fixed the problems quickly. Starcraft is the most balanced RTS when there are three unique races. Diablo II was fantastic because of the drops. That game was made for mules.
The thing is if you want to beat WoW you nead a game that is different and yet draws you in as quickly. And it must be very polished.
Actually both you and I know that Meridian had those things too, even if it was a lot less polished. EQ did borrow things too, that is what game devs do.
There are a few games that really copies Wow in as many ways as possible. Runes of magic and WAR have a lot in common with Wow, and possibly Aion.
Most games are have more in common with EQ and Lineage then Wow so calling everything Wow clones isn't right but most of the players have not been here for so long time and MMOs do have a lot in common, few games tries to be different.
Hopefully are that changing but you are right, Wow clone is used too much.
As it says in the wiki deffinition, clone is inspired by a previous popular game, which is WoW and not EQ. WoW brought millions of players to the genre and not EQ, WoW was the first MMO to most of today's MMO player. Most of them doesn't even know that other MMO exist or existed.
It's like Coke, it's not Coke, it's Cola, but people goes to restaurant and order a Coke and the waitress says: We only have Pepsi, Oh ok, say thing. But it's not, yes it is a soft drink, dark color, bubble and sweet, but it doesn't taste the same at all. But people keep calling it a Coke.
LOL at that comment, EQ is not a popular mmo? Were you born yesterday or something? Man, you are funny!
Yes WoW brought a lot of people to the genre, but that doesn't change the fact that WoW copied EQ. And by the way, when it says heavily inspired by a previous popular game it means it was heavily inspired by a previous game, the fact that WoW has more players doesn't change the fact that it copied and copies most games out there.
Just in the last expansion, it copied WAR with it's achievement system. And LOTRO with it's DK starting at level 50 or whatever.
One more thing, if someone starts a new company called Golarum Cola and it becomes bigger than Coca and Pepsi put togther, does it mean that they invented the beverage? Man your logic makes no sense.
And by the way, the reason everyone says coke instead of cola is because is because Coca Cola is the first company to have made cola, it's the inventor of the beverage. So people have always said coke. Not because it's bigger, actually pepsi and coca cola are almost on par.
That is true, EQ got inspired by a lot of things in Meridian 59 and many other games before it, they even got inspired by UO's skill system.
What I meant was that EQ was the first to have the complete model we keep seeing these days. But I see your point and it's completely legitimate and true.
"I am sorry UO fans, UO was a good game, but it's got nothing to do with the mmorpg model we know today."
roflmao
It has 'nothing' to do with the current MMORPG model because a good 90 to 95% of the MMORPG community wants a carebear game. If WoW had full loot it would have been dead in a year.
Then you have a game that requires a decent amount of skill and timing in PvP. Something the general public cannot put up with. What weapon to use? Posoin it? Use healing pots? Bow? There were not ANY +1000 damage and no super weapons like WoW has. You can have LESS skill than someone else and with skills you can actually beat them. WoW is an item and level driven PvP... yawn!
Finally... the player base is lazy. They don't want to have to research what side skills to get to support melee or magery. They want a 'level' that ups all the right skills and then choose a skill on a skill tree. Level and choose a skill. Level and choose a skill...
If you asked a WoW player to wander through the woods to chop trees, then stand in town and make bows and sell them to a vendor they would quit before 1 night was over.
EQ was a GOOD game. I played it but it has NOTHING on Ultima Online. There was and is nothing to lose in any other PvP game. No game creates the fast heart rate when a group reds roll into a dungeon and you are about to lose everything you are carrying... then sulking back to your corpse to see if MAYBE they left something for you.
Oh yeah... and requiring a carebear MMORPG player to buy and carry regs for their spells? And when they run out they can't cast it? Man oh Man! Then they die because they forgot to buy more Black Pearl so they can't recall to time! Can you imagine?
UO FTW
Old Skool Ultima Online Junky
Bring back the OLD UO so I can play again
I know that WoW is a carebear game and I that about it and I hate many other things, but we are not here to discuss the merits of every game.
My post was about the excessive use of the WoW clone comment. That every game is a WoW clone, and then I stated some facts to back up my point.
I played UO for a while, and what I hated about that game was that it required no skills, the person who boted or who spent the most time just grinding skills was the one who will win. Also it had such a poor anti hack system that half the population were hackers. And that is what killed it for me. The game itself had a good concept. But it very poorly implemented.
I know that will probably turn into a UO vs EQ war, man I miss the good old days lol. But I will stop commenting on UO vs EQ. You said your opinion on the matter and I responded to it. We can always start another post comparing EQ and UO
But for everything you said about WoW, I agree with it fully.
{ Mod Edit: Language.} WoW fan boys compare every game to WoW, and I mean EVERYTHING, even with games that came out before WoW, these newer generation gamers need to stick with console gaming.
This is a useful topic which will bring us closer to an understanding of the MMORPG genre.
It will change whether people call things WOW clones.
(Well honestly the thread really doesn't deserve quite that much sarcasm, but I do wonder what the OP hopes to accomplish here. Even if everyone reading it agrees with them and realizes how silly it is, what will those 100 people have gained?)
That and well...WOW's ridiculous success guarantees it's the bar to which future games are compared.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As it says in the wiki deffinition, clone is inspired by a previous popular game, which is WoW and not EQ. WoW brought millions of players to the genre and not EQ, WoW was the first MMO to most of today's MMO player. Most of them doesn't even know that other MMO exist or existed.
It's like Coke, it's not Coke, it's Cola, but people goes to restaurant and order a Coke and the waitress says: We only have Pepsi, Oh ok, say thing. But it's not, yes it is a soft drink, dark color, bubble and sweet, but it doesn't taste the same at all. But people keep calling it a Coke.
LOL at that comment, EQ is not a popular mmo? Were you born yesterday or something? Man, you are funny!
Yes WoW brought a lot of people to the genre, but that doesn't change the fact that WoW copied EQ. And by the way, when it says heavily inspired by a previous popular game it means it was heavily inspired by a previous game, the fact that WoW has more players doesn't change the fact that it copied and copies most games out there.
Just in the last expansion, it copied WAR with it's achievement system. And LOTRO with it's DK starting at level 50 or whatever.
One more thing, if someone starts a new company called Golarum Cola and it becomes bigger than Coca and Pepsi put togther, does it mean that they invented the beverage? Man your logic makes no sense.
And by the way, the reason everyone says coke instead of cola is because is because Coca Cola is the first company to have made cola, it's the inventor of the beverage. So people have always said coke. Not because it's bigger, actually pepsi and coca cola are almost on par.
You have to read my post again, I never said EQ wasn't popular nor that WoW didn't copie anything, your putting words I didn't write. WoW is alot more popular than EQ that is a fact you can't denied. People use WoW clone as expression because they don't know anything else, they never played anything else. To explain to you how it works, Ex: LoTRO comes out, the question is, what's the previous popular game? That's right, WoW and not EQ.
As for copied stuff, do you think that everything you said WoW copied from others made these other games company saints? Everyone steals from everyone. WAR stole their acheviement system from Xbox 360 who stole from a hockey game (don't remember which one). AoC stole the lvl 50 from WoW and LoTRO, WoW stole the setting from Warhammer which they stole it from D&D PnP which they stole from Tolkien who stole from (Middle-Earth where he was born), didn't but influence from Anglo-Saxon literature.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!