Originally posted by RamenThief7 NiteWolf: Well of course FF XIV shouldn't be 100% like FF XI. There were problems with the game after all. What I mean is that FF XIV has to be game where a FF XI player would play FF XIV and say "this is fun and seems like an improved and polished version of FF XI with new game mechanics to boot." It doesn't to be exactly like FF XI, but it should provide a fun experience for those that enjoyed FF XI and for people who are new to it (and enjoy similar aspects). To everyone in general: WSI Mike does sort of hit the hammer on this point. There should parts where it is possible to solo, but it wouldn't be as advantegous as doing it in a group. For example, the blacksmith role. By yourself, you could craft a sword (I'm just making this example up since I have no idea how this will work). But, if you had a friend or two helping you out, you could craft that sword much quicker (and in turn you help your friends out or give them equal shares of the profit if you decide to sell the sword). This makes soloing a wee bit easier and more convenient, but group play is in the end more of the stronger aspect.
well that is the question, isn't it? does SE want to create a game that most FF XI players would want to play? by doing that they'll cut themselves off a big portion of a solid subscription base since with the time-commitment needed for the games it would be highly unlikely ppl would be playing both. And they don't have to worry too much about ppl getting so disappointed in or annoyed about XIV to not play XI anymore since, as was mentioned multiple times over multiple threads, there's no game of that type out there.
about balancing the solo/group thing, it sure is a tricky matter as WSI mentioned. however forced grouping is never ever a good idea if you want to get the casual player in your game (which is a declared goal of SE). A very simple solution was used in Guild Wars, namely henchmen. you always need a group since soloing is mostly impossible, but if you can't find enough ppl or don't feel like searching, you can get npcs who travel with you. you won't manage the most difficult areas with them, but you get far enough in the story if you want. And you still have to do learn how to properly interact with your group. a system like that would be one option to have both solo and group play and a necessity to know what you're doing.
Sorry for the large quote. But I felt it was relevant.
My personal belief is that after watching how successful Blizzard Entertainment has been with World of Warcraft, Square Enix cannot close their eyes at the fact that if you make your game much more available for players of all types, it will bring in more revenue and create a larger playerbase. So, I absolutely think that SE will focus on a much wider playerbase this time around.
I very much doubt that they will try to cater to the small FFXI audience, since then they wont reach out to too many players outside of Japan. Fact.
Forced grouping is something I've enjoyed a lot in EverQuest and Lineage 2, but back then I had no full-time job. I spent a lot of my time in the games and enjoyed it a great deal. Nowadays though, things has changed. The MMO scene has changed. And SE won't be there and present us with something ancient, they too want to be up-to-par with this era of MMO's. So we will see a more casual-focused game, in WoW you still group quite a bit, but it's different then the grind in FFXI and L2 for instance.
This is definitly a wait and see situation. Speculation is fun at times but can also be harmful to ones health. I should know because I have a fraking head cold!!
Any game that offers a place to congregate and chat will generate a community. Forced cooperation on the other hand is a big turn off for a lot of people. If they want this game to do better in the west than it's predecessor did, they're going to have to really take that to heart. Otherwise, they'll just end up cannibalizing their current player base and will never increase their market share.
Not so fast Vrazule. You're forgetting something, FF XI was a hardcore group game. The players of that fanbase grew up on forced cooperation, yet 500k subscriptions for 8 straight years shows that the concept can sell.
FF XIV would be wise to stay group-oriented and only offer solo play as a little better, but ultimately you're looking for a party during those times.
Wow does not have forced group cooperation and it has 10m subscriptions. I think SE wants to change what they are doing.
Any game that offers a place to congregate and chat will generate a community. Forced cooperation on the other hand is a big turn off for a lot of people. If they want this game to do better in the west than it's predecessor did, they're going to have to really take that to heart. Otherwise, they'll just end up cannibalizing their current player base and will never increase their market share.
Not so fast Vrazule. You're forgetting something, FF XI was a hardcore group game. The players of that fanbase grew up on forced cooperation, yet 500k subscriptions for 8 straight years shows that the concept can sell.
FF XIV would be wise to stay group-oriented and only offer solo play as a little better, but ultimately you're looking for a party during those times.
Wow does not have forced group cooperation and it has 10m subscriptions. I think SE wants to change what they are doing.
Oh dear, I really don't want to go over this all over again.
WOW is an abomination of nature. There is no way that anyone can repeat what WOW did. Forced group cooperation lead to an excellent community. SE has stated they will make the game more casual, though exactly how much more casual is the question.
Please, read this whole thread again. A couple of people here have illustrated well on my point here.
The problem with the whole "appeal to a new crowd" logic is this: a lot of the people who didn't get involved with FFXI aren't the least bit interested in FFXIV. All they see is "another Asian grinder", even though that may not even be the case. So the crowd that SE might be trying to reach by making it different from FFXI could very well not even bother trying it and the effort is wasted. Meanwhile, the people who loved FFXI could very well try out FFXIV and get turned off because they are expecting the same type game. So it's possible they wind up appealing to neither crowd. That happened with EQ2 (the people that didn't like EQ had no interest in it, and people who did like EQ were turned off by it), and Warhammer as well. I'm not saying that will definitely happen to FFXIV, but it is something to consider.
Lieoney, I suggest you take this post into mind. Sixpax proves an excellent point here.
Any game that offers a place to congregate and chat will generate a community. Forced cooperation on the other hand is a big turn off for a lot of people. If they want this game to do better in the west than it's predecessor did, they're going to have to really take that to heart. Otherwise, they'll just end up cannibalizing their current player base and will never increase their market share.
Not so fast Vrazule. You're forgetting something, FF XI was a hardcore group game. The players of that fanbase grew up on forced cooperation, yet 500k subscriptions for 8 straight years shows that the concept can sell.
FF XIV would be wise to stay group-oriented and only offer solo play as a little better, but ultimately you're looking for a party during those times.
Really? How wise would it be to spend $$ to put out a new game with the same forced group concept as a game that doesn't break 500k in subs? A little better solo makes the difference and brings all the subs??? LOL...
How wise would it be to step out on a limb and take a risk by making it to solo friendly, aleinating your main fanbase when you know you have a formula that is a success and will give you 500k subs over the next 5-8 years? Thats one hell of a profit.
Personally I would want to take the guranteed route. You keep your fans happy and maybe can get some new ones who never got into ffxi due to when it came out. Maybe push that number to 600k. Another reason to stick with your fans is the majority of solo'ers will hop on the next games bandwagon and leave ffxiv. while you have done and pissed of your fans and they either left ffxiv or a few went back to ffxi. That leaves FFXIV in a BAD spot. The solo crowd is a hard crowd to keep playing one game for years. . Only WoW has managed to keep the solo'ers/casual, maybe LOTRO, idk i have not followed that game.
I believe WoW community's is suspect. The overall environment in that game is of hostility and e-peen mentality. Sure, there are a few good people in the game but not enough to lend a sense of a community that actually exhibit empathy. WoW is the antithesis of empathy. My opinion, of course.
Ramen, I like how passionate you are about things. However, I'm sure even you realize that there won't be close to as much forced grouping in FFXIV as it was in FFXI, since SE would want to keep both games running at the same time and cater to different playerbases. Then again, I'm not SE, so we'll just have to wait and see
Ramen, I like how passionate you are about things. However, I'm sure even you realize that there won't be close to as much forced grouping in FFXIV as it was in FFXI, since SE would want to keep both games running at the same time and cater to different playerbases. Then again, I'm not SE, so we'll just have to wait and see
Heh heh, I always considered myself thorough, but passionate does have a nice ring to it.
Of course I do not expect FF XIV to be 100% hardcore group play-based. SE has announced it will be more casual than FF XI. However, by reading previous posts that I posted for lieoney to read, one could agree that if FF XIV doesn't retain a good amount of hardcore group aspects, then SE is walking a very dangerous and risky business line. I'm just very afraid that SE will create an overly casual and "solo the whole thing" game which would still not appeal to casuals (many friends of mine that are casuals have stated that they see FF XIV as nothing more than another "asian grinder" like Sixpax put it) but would be so different and non-hardcore group aspected that the original FF XI crowd will reject it. I like SE, I don't like them failing, but SE has a chance of repeating EQ2 all over again.
Of course, we'll just have to wait a few days more if I remember correctly to finally get some more info about FF XIV (Gamescon anyone?).
If soloing is going to bring immature and insolent players into the FFXIV playerbase, it would bring unwanted business to the groupie players. Perhaps there is no perfect world and we would have to put up with some of these situations? As one progresses, soloing should be increasingly difficult. This leads to the solo crowd not wanting to solo anymore at the later stages of the game and blend into the grouping community. The easier way to get past the beginning levels, soloing, would prompt both soloists and even some group players to consider not seeking a party. Maybe this is the "solo-friendly" plans that SE wanted the game to be about? It's not at the level of hardcore grouping FFXI has, but adding some solo content would not be as killer to the community as some of us suggest here.
It's to early to say but, the soloing players and grouping players may be able to coexist. Soloing players wouldn't be LFG; party leaders looking for members can avoid contact with them.
I think as much as SE has stated they wont be closing FF11 servers(why would they this is easy money), they still want to make this new game appeal to the FF11 players. They could play both (SE has stated this time and again).
I think SE must want their old playerbase to move to the new game, they did use the same races(maybe they were lazy but I doubt it). I think they trust they can attract all the old FF11 players and a great deal of new FF fans and MMo fans and that some will "stick". After 9 years of MMO experience I bet SE knows if they can get a game that will make a few million "stick" for the long haul, they will produce a lot more reliable income then a game that has a constant turnover.
I do think SE wants old time FF11 fans to play FF14 so that they have a good playerbase in the game, as playerbase is important. With a large and knowledgable playerbase in FF14 it will be easier to get others to "stick" with a slightly more difficult or time intensive game. Also FF11 is getting old, I think SE wants its players playing the nw falshy pretty game, that will attract a players friends in, and that will be on the seventh generation consoles that so many have.
So here is to hoping that SE wants to appeal to FF11 players, and that they will take the spirit of FF11 and create a better game in F14.
Well im sure there will be XI fans that will prefer to play Xi, the gameplay of XIV sounds pretty different. The jobs wont be there that they fell in love with, well not quite anyway. Not to mention theres quite a bit that's still unknown about XIV. Although im sure theres alot more that are enticed about what they have heard about XIV. The "Solo" aspect sounds like something that will probably be popular here in the States just cause our society promote individualism everyone likes to do things their way and so more casual gamers may actually want to try XIV. However to think you can solo throughout the whole game is naive, this is an mmo after all. They have already stated that there will be quest that require a group to complete.
I personally like the idea of solo because I wont be waiting around LFG just to get some levels. Whether Im waiting for friends to come online or my buds just dont have the same schedule
Comments
well that is the question, isn't it? does SE want to create a game that most FF XI players would want to play? by doing that they'll cut themselves off a big portion of a solid subscription base since with the time-commitment needed for the games it would be highly unlikely ppl would be playing both. And they don't have to worry too much about ppl getting so disappointed in or annoyed about XIV to not play XI anymore since, as was mentioned multiple times over multiple threads, there's no game of that type out there.
about balancing the solo/group thing, it sure is a tricky matter as WSI mentioned. however forced grouping is never ever a good idea if you want to get the casual player in your game (which is a declared goal of SE). A very simple solution was used in Guild Wars, namely henchmen. you always need a group since soloing is mostly impossible, but if you can't find enough ppl or don't feel like searching, you can get npcs who travel with you. you won't manage the most difficult areas with them, but you get far enough in the story if you want. And you still have to do learn how to properly interact with your group. a system like that would be one option to have both solo and group play and a necessity to know what you're doing.
Sorry for the large quote. But I felt it was relevant.
My personal belief is that after watching how successful Blizzard Entertainment has been with World of Warcraft, Square Enix cannot close their eyes at the fact that if you make your game much more available for players of all types, it will bring in more revenue and create a larger playerbase. So, I absolutely think that SE will focus on a much wider playerbase this time around.
I very much doubt that they will try to cater to the small FFXI audience, since then they wont reach out to too many players outside of Japan. Fact.
Forced grouping is something I've enjoyed a lot in EverQuest and Lineage 2, but back then I had no full-time job. I spent a lot of my time in the games and enjoyed it a great deal. Nowadays though, things has changed. The MMO scene has changed. And SE won't be there and present us with something ancient, they too want to be up-to-par with this era of MMO's. So we will see a more casual-focused game, in WoW you still group quite a bit, but it's different then the grind in FFXI and L2 for instance.
FFXIVCore.com - Final Fantasy XIV Fansite.
FFXIVCore.com on Facebook, Twitter, Square Enix Members, YouTube & RSS
This is definitly a wait and see situation. Speculation is fun at times but can also be harmful to ones health. I should know because I have a fraking head cold!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Final Fantasy XIV Core - Final Fantasy XIV Fansite
FFXIVCore.com on Twitter
FFXIVCore.com on Facebook
Not so fast Vrazule. You're forgetting something, FF XI was a hardcore group game. The players of that fanbase grew up on forced cooperation, yet 500k subscriptions for 8 straight years shows that the concept can sell.
FF XIV would be wise to stay group-oriented and only offer solo play as a little better, but ultimately you're looking for a party during those times.
Wow does not have forced group cooperation and it has 10m subscriptions. I think SE wants to change what they are doing.
Not so fast Vrazule. You're forgetting something, FF XI was a hardcore group game. The players of that fanbase grew up on forced cooperation, yet 500k subscriptions for 8 straight years shows that the concept can sell.
FF XIV would be wise to stay group-oriented and only offer solo play as a little better, but ultimately you're looking for a party during those times.
Wow does not have forced group cooperation and it has 10m subscriptions. I think SE wants to change what they are doing.
Oh dear, I really don't want to go over this all over again.
WOW is an abomination of nature. There is no way that anyone can repeat what WOW did. Forced group cooperation lead to an excellent community. SE has stated they will make the game more casual, though exactly how much more casual is the question.
Please, read this whole thread again. A couple of people here have illustrated well on my point here.
Lieoney, I suggest you take this post into mind. Sixpax proves an excellent point here.
Not so fast Vrazule. You're forgetting something, FF XI was a hardcore group game. The players of that fanbase grew up on forced cooperation, yet 500k subscriptions for 8 straight years shows that the concept can sell.
FF XIV would be wise to stay group-oriented and only offer solo play as a little better, but ultimately you're looking for a party during those times.
Really? How wise would it be to spend $$ to put out a new game with the same forced group concept as a game that doesn't break 500k in subs? A little better solo makes the difference and brings all the subs??? LOL...
How wise would it be to step out on a limb and take a risk by making it to solo friendly, aleinating your main fanbase when you know you have a formula that is a success and will give you 500k subs over the next 5-8 years? Thats one hell of a profit.
Personally I would want to take the guranteed route. You keep your fans happy and maybe can get some new ones who never got into ffxi due to when it came out. Maybe push that number to 600k. Another reason to stick with your fans is the majority of solo'ers will hop on the next games bandwagon and leave ffxiv. while you have done and pissed of your fans and they either left ffxiv or a few went back to ffxi. That leaves FFXIV in a BAD spot. The solo crowd is a hard crowd to keep playing one game for years. . Only WoW has managed to keep the solo'ers/casual, maybe LOTRO, idk i have not followed that game.
Lieoney, this is another post to consider.
I believe WoW community's is suspect. The overall environment in that game is of hostility and e-peen mentality. Sure, there are a few good people in the game but not enough to lend a sense of a community that actually exhibit empathy. WoW is the antithesis of empathy. My opinion, of course.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Final Fantasy XIV Core - Final Fantasy XIV Fansite
FFXIVCore.com on Twitter
FFXIVCore.com on Facebook
Ramen, I like how passionate you are about things. However, I'm sure even you realize that there won't be close to as much forced grouping in FFXIV as it was in FFXI, since SE would want to keep both games running at the same time and cater to different playerbases. Then again, I'm not SE, so we'll just have to wait and see
FFXIVCore.com - Final Fantasy XIV Fansite.
FFXIVCore.com on Facebook, Twitter, Square Enix Members, YouTube & RSS
Heh heh, I always considered myself thorough, but passionate does have a nice ring to it.
Of course I do not expect FF XIV to be 100% hardcore group play-based. SE has announced it will be more casual than FF XI. However, by reading previous posts that I posted for lieoney to read, one could agree that if FF XIV doesn't retain a good amount of hardcore group aspects, then SE is walking a very dangerous and risky business line. I'm just very afraid that SE will create an overly casual and "solo the whole thing" game which would still not appeal to casuals (many friends of mine that are casuals have stated that they see FF XIV as nothing more than another "asian grinder" like Sixpax put it) but would be so different and non-hardcore group aspected that the original FF XI crowd will reject it. I like SE, I don't like them failing, but SE has a chance of repeating EQ2 all over again.
Of course, we'll just have to wait a few days more if I remember correctly to finally get some more info about FF XIV (Gamescon anyone?).
If soloing is going to bring immature and insolent players into the FFXIV playerbase, it would bring unwanted business to the groupie players. Perhaps there is no perfect world and we would have to put up with some of these situations? As one progresses, soloing should be increasingly difficult. This leads to the solo crowd not wanting to solo anymore at the later stages of the game and blend into the grouping community. The easier way to get past the beginning levels, soloing, would prompt both soloists and even some group players to consider not seeking a party. Maybe this is the "solo-friendly" plans that SE wanted the game to be about? It's not at the level of hardcore grouping FFXI has, but adding some solo content would not be as killer to the community as some of us suggest here.
It's to early to say but, the soloing players and grouping players may be able to coexist. Soloing players wouldn't be LFG; party leaders looking for members can avoid contact with them.
lol @ when the beastmasters got phatty nerfs because they kept MPKing folks and gilsellers.
that was a beautiful solo class and just a few people ruined it for everyone. gg
I think as much as SE has stated they wont be closing FF11 servers(why would they this is easy money), they still want to make this new game appeal to the FF11 players. They could play both (SE has stated this time and again).
I think SE must want their old playerbase to move to the new game, they did use the same races(maybe they were lazy but I doubt it). I think they trust they can attract all the old FF11 players and a great deal of new FF fans and MMo fans and that some will "stick". After 9 years of MMO experience I bet SE knows if they can get a game that will make a few million "stick" for the long haul, they will produce a lot more reliable income then a game that has a constant turnover.
I do think SE wants old time FF11 fans to play FF14 so that they have a good playerbase in the game, as playerbase is important. With a large and knowledgable playerbase in FF14 it will be easier to get others to "stick" with a slightly more difficult or time intensive game. Also FF11 is getting old, I think SE wants its players playing the nw falshy pretty game, that will attract a players friends in, and that will be on the seventh generation consoles that so many have.
So here is to hoping that SE wants to appeal to FF11 players, and that they will take the spirit of FF11 and create a better game in F14.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Well im sure there will be XI fans that will prefer to play Xi, the gameplay of XIV sounds pretty different. The jobs wont be there that they fell in love with, well not quite anyway. Not to mention theres quite a bit that's still unknown about XIV. Although im sure theres alot more that are enticed about what they have heard about XIV. The "Solo" aspect sounds like something that will probably be popular here in the States just cause our society promote individualism everyone likes to do things their way and so more casual gamers may actually want to try XIV. However to think you can solo throughout the whole game is naive, this is an mmo after all. They have already stated that there will be quest that require a group to complete.
I personally like the idea of solo because I wont be waiting around LFG just to get some levels. Whether Im waiting for friends to come online or my buds just dont have the same schedule
yay necro post.
I didn't read the entire thread, but the majority of us are Hardcore players that want a community/group based game.
If SE makes ff14 solo friendly, people will play for a few months and go back to WoW. Not too smart of a decision.