Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
How is the pvp system in this game?
havok527
Member Posts: 80
I played this game when it first came out, and I remember the PVP system being terribly unbalanced since rogues could easily infiltrate the castles and kill people with relative ease. How has the PVP system changed over the past few years?
Comments
There is no way to really answer your question. Thing have changed, but to write of years worth of changes is not constructive. All I can say is that assassins have been taken out of RvR for the most part. There is little worry about being killed in a keep. Here are the reasons why:
1. Mastery of Stealth. Archers can now see assassins and see then at a good distance. I have had it happen beyond /face range before. This means unless you are really good, or suicidal, you avoid the large groups of players that are involved in sieges.
2. They now have assassin NPC guards on keeps. NPC can now see you and go after you. This provides a level of protection for when archers aren't around.
Assassins are involved in two types or warfare now. First, the camp well traveled spots like bridges and docks. A presence node can do a lot to prevent assassins from being in those areas. The second type of warfare is assassin vs assassin. Pretty much every assassin runs around with a buffbot.
So, because of casters and primarily archers complaining that the die, they have relegated assassins to a minimal role in RvR.
1. Wow, someone really knows how to exaggerate! Archers detecting stealthed assassins from beyond 2100 range? I don't think so!
Mastery of Stealth 5 does not give an archer that sort of stealth detection (not to mention that most archers will never see the Realm Rank 4+ needed to have that single RA alone, let alone other RAs that would allow such an archer to detect the assassin, and then kill it without getting shredded. As far as Stealth Lore from Shades of Mist Cloak, it's been years since I had it, but I sincerely do not believe it gives anyone that range of stealth detection.
2. Assassin NPC guards are placed on hookpoints, so until someone actually puts one there, there are none. So unless you're trying to sneak into a fully defended keep like an idiot, you're completely capable of getting inside without being detected. And another thing, even if there were NPCs guarding against stealthers, the NPCs are not usually that hard to kill, and can always be killed by 2 or more stealthers working together. Learning when you should and should not be trying to sneak into a keep is an important part of being an assassin (to include being a minstrel, that can stealth and climb walls into keeps).
========================================
Assassins are not intended to take on groups of people, which I highly suspect is the case in the above quoted post, especially if they are not grouped themselves, and especially if they do not know how to use the skills and tools given to them. I have only played my assassin in NF one time, because he was untemplated, but I had no problem getting inside a defended Mid keep, killing the NPC that jumped me, and then finding a target (a shaman), and eliminating it. It's all about choice of target, spec, using the right tools for the task, (and of course, getting out before the bad guys know you're there, or before they can do anything about it).
Just like playing a ranger, patience is a virtue that all assassins should have. Watch the enemy. Find the guy that's not getting spammed with group heals, and take him out. Change weapons, dump poison. Snare the target when they try to run. Garrote with snare poison if you have to. They aren't going to resist both movement speed debuffs. And when the bad guy hits the ground, Vanish and get out of there.
If for some reason, the target gets out of range and turns to blast you, break out that item you (better) carry for just such ocassions, you know the one, the 1500 range instant nuke. Take one hit to break your snare/root and then instant nuke the bad guy. Sprint up on him, snare him and go for the kill. (I used a Funereal Bracer on Hib side to pwn a R10Lx smite cleric with my R5Lx animist. I didn't even have shrooms up or use (let alone, have) Mastery of Concentration. After his 400 million or so battles, I'm sure Castertroy has forgotten all about that fight in Midgard's Passage of Conflict entrance, but I never will. I whooped his ass. LOL)
Wow ppl still play this game?
Assassination is all about patience. When you primary damage is an attack from stealth, you only get one chance. What I am talking about is pre- MOS, assassins had a role in keep sieges. You went inside to scout. If there was a caster causing problems, you went behind enemy lines. You stalked your prey, killed them, and quickly ran off before getting caught. I loved being inside on keep defense. I would watch the casters underneath, drop down, PA, then climb up to safety.
With archers having MOS, it is not like that at all. You get anywhere near a keep siege and you are dead. The closest you might get is camping a bridge near the keep. Usually you end up camping a bridge at the near keep people teleport to. Given all the OP shit they have given archers over the years, assassins have no role in RvR. Instead, they sit on the outside killing those trying to get to RvR. Probably the only decision they made worse has not fixing bolts.
The real power is archers. There is little chance of killing a competent archer in NF. They can see you and send and arrow poping you out of stealth. By the time you hit your sprint key, you will have a dozen arrows sticking out of your corpse.
yup, they still play uo and eq1 as well
yup, they still play uo and eq1 as well
I think it's funny how people think old MMOs just die lol.
UO, EQ1, AC1, AO, DAoC all still have core fans that keep those games going.
Hell even games like the terrible SWG still has core fans that support the game enough for it to live on.
Imo if a game has the ability to keep one healthy server it should stay open.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Ok, now I know you haven't played the game in excess of 7 years, because Mastery of Stealth has been in the game (at the very least) that long, as proven by the fact that It's in the patch notes going back to April 30th, 2002.
And just to make things crystal clear, here is the information for every stealth-related ability in the game:
Mastery of Stealth 1: 10% / 50 units
Mastery of Stealth 2: 20% / 100 units
Mastery of Stealth 3: 30% / 200 units
Mastery of Stealth 4: 40% / 325 units
Mastery of Stealth 5: 50% / 475 units
Stealth Lore a la Shades of Mist: +35 Stealth
Vampiiric Stealth Lore a la Vampiiric Awareness (13 Vampiric Embrace skill, lasts 1 minute): 250 units
Vampiiric Stealth Lore a la Vampiiric Sight (28 Vampiric Embrace skill, lasts 1 minute): 325 units
Vampiiric Stealth Lore a la Vampiiric Senses (38 Vampiric Embrace skill, lasts 1 minute): 450 units
So what does all that mean? That means, at the very best, a ranger has +50% movement speed bonus and lowers other stealther's detection range by 475 units. Mastery of Stealth provides no bonus to stealth detection at all, according to that linked article, so there goes your whole argument that archers detect you light years away, and that assassins can't get anywhere near a keep without being seen by an archer.
But for the record, how far is 475 units? Here's a screenshot taken inside the tutorial to show exactly how far 475 units is:
<-About that far->
So just give it a rest. Mastery of Stealth doesn't have anything to do with your assassin being detected far away.
yup, they still play uo and eq1 as well
I think it's funny how people think old MMOs just die lol.
UO, EQ1, AC1, AO, DAoC all still have core fans that keep those games going.
Hell even games like the terrible SWG still has core fans that support the game enough for it to live on.
Imo if a game has the ability to keep one healthy server it should stay open.
Yep DAOC is fine and yes people still play they are merging the servers into one big one. Plenty of action around!
I actually began this game during the second week of release, so that would have been around the 20th or so of Oct 2001.
What you linked to in 2002 is a different Mastery of Stealth. Prior to June 2004 when New Frontiers launched, there was a different RA system in place. Mastery of Stealth only increased the movement speed while stealthed. You can tell the difference by that patch note. In 2002 they made it 3 levels. The current has 5 levels. Level 5 grants a 25% bonus and adds 625 units.
This is what is really important. Archers do not have a class ability to see hidden, only assassins. When archers take the RA mastery of stealth, it now grants then the ability to see characters that are stealthed. When it comes to assassin classes, it is mostly used for speed because mastery of stealth does not increase the detection radius between assassins.
Before I continue, I should correct something. Archers cannot shoot an assassin that is stealthed at greater than /face range. However, before the archery changes went through where they equalized the distances between the classes, Scouts with ToA bonuses, could shoot a visible target at face range and then because of the target's movement or stepping back, the scout would be out of /face range.
Anyway, returning to the stealth issue. Before NF, archers were not an issue because only assassins could see other assassins. Here is why seeing matters. Even if the assassin sees the Archer at a range greater than than the archer can see the assassin - this is of minimal benefit.
The assassin cannot approach the archer stealthed because at a certain point the archer will see the assassin and be able to shoot his bow. Even the worst archers can move to avoid a PA. This means the assassin has to drop stealth and sprint to the archer and melee the target. At this point, you would probably be better off playing a vamp.
Even if you think it is legitimate for a class that is defined by attacking from stealth to have to drop stealth and sprint to kill an archer, there are huge problems with doing this during a keep siege. There are many archers around. If you try to get behind the enemy lines, you will be seen by one of them. Even if you can avoid them, you cannot really attack an archer and get away. You need to drop stealth and melee. Without the PA chain, combat takes so long that there is little change to kill the archer and escape.
ToA also added brittle guards. This has made it more difficult for an assassin to kill casters as well.
In OF, there was a type of balance. Archers killed casters. Casters killed tanks/healers, and Assassins killed Archers. Tanks were needed for rams on the doors and healers were needed to keep the tanks alive. That does not exist anymore and MoS given to assassins is a huge reason why.
Wow, you really are dense, and you really don't pay much attention.
Right there, movement speed bonus, click that. I linked directly to the latest, most up to date information about Mastery of Stealth directly off the Camelot Herald. And I double-checked that against the often-updated CharPlan program's information, so I've got 2 sources telling me that you are incorrect in your unproven understanding of how Mastery of Stealth works. Not to mention, the link directly from the game creator's telling me that you are completely wrong.So now you're trying to talk about "Detect Hidden", an assassin's stealth detection ability. (I don't know what the hell that has to do with assassins being detected by archers.) All I can think is that you're clearly so screwed up and misinformed about how DAoC works, you're trying to change the subject.
And if an archer (or anyone, for that matter) "moves to avoid PA", they certainly are not "the worst" (player of that class), are they? I would say "the worst" is your assassin's composite stealth since you are being seen so incredibly easy. So again, your logic is so flawed in so many places now, I don't know why I even bother trying to enlighten you.
"Drop stealth and sprint" ... I totally ROFL'd my ass off on that one. Archers DO NOT detect assassins or other archers that far away. Period. Stop trying to say they do, especially because you have no proof to counter what the game developers have told everyone about the classes' abilities.
But I've probably figured out why you're being seen so easily. I'd bet you're running around in a full set of Bright Rose and/or Lime Green leather dye, with matching weapon lusters, that you thought was so "kewl".
So like I mentioned before, you need to get a group, son. You most definitely do not know how to play an assassin solo. I have been playing DAoC since October 2001 myself, and I have never had the problems that you are having.
Here is my proof that they had 625 units:
www.camelotherald.com/realmabilities/ra.php
That lists the RA. Now, the patch note you just linked - not the only one from 2002, does show that the RA chart needs to be updated. Regardless, do you really think an assassin can walk up to an archer that can see an assassin at 475 units away and be able to PA the archer? Even if you do not think that is not enough time to target the assassin with a bow and have it discharge, there is no way the assassin can get a PA off. PA is positional and it is going to be very easy to move so that the style fails and only does normal weapon damage. Getting off a successful PA requires you not to be scene by the other person so that you can line everything up. There are ways. My favorite is to jump down from a keep wall or tower in front of the player. Unless the person is looking up, this negates any benefit of detection. But, simply walking up, does not work.
As for a group, how the fuck is that going to help? Yes there are stealth groups that run around each with their own buffbot. So I can choose to go run with them and hunt other assassin groups. But assassins do not really get much benefit from a normal group during many (not all) situations. A keep siege where you are going to be far from your group, then your group can't help you.
You're right. Assassins don't have to be in their target's face to PA, and archers do not have to face their target to shoot, so there is no way that an assassin can PA an archer.
...
This conversation is over.
Honestly, you can punch holes in every system in every game.. lord knows DAOC has had it's share of flaws and still has many.
Taken on the whole though, The DAOC RvR system is, in my opinion, far and away the single best PvP system of any mmo, ever.
Mythic crapped in their own food bowl by mutilating the RvR system in WAR.
After a multifaceted experience of the DAOC RvR system I think most players would come to agree that it's the most immersive, most dynamic and most exciting PvP experience in MMO gaming.
It's had it's up and downs through various iterations, but it has never been less than they best PvP I have personally ever seen. EQ, EQ2, WoW, SB, AO, WW2OL (second best PVP imo), WAR, AoC, EVE (third best PVP), DF, SWG and more.. Nothing has ever impressed me as much.
Yea its a damn good pvp / rvr system.
Just remove the SH%U/T con bassed, buffs, and give all buffs a recast like 20 min. Remove basline stunes, and anything els that " hold " the enemy needs to take like 10 sec base to cast. Last remove the stealh from the game, but keep the " Assiasin and Archers ". And a few other things.
And the game will be perfect. No more BB and double payment to myhtic.
... more or less ;P
Its not that the games die, they just get really sick or infected by changes that are supposed to improve the experience, but just make it worse.
This game at release, without any expansions or anything was the best mmo ever. I still love the game for what it is, but can't play anymore because of changes to gameplay, sieging, frontiers, ect.
Also, Planetside is the 2nd best pvp behind DAOC. Well, WAS.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/darksider
Steam =D
I don't use xfire anymore.
I