Second of all, God forbid that a new game NOT be like the sequel. Do you read sequels to books, or see sequels to movies and expect them to be the exact same? No, you don't. You want something different. So why do you want a game that's the same? Think before posting. Something not really common on message boards. UGH.
Pretty much the dumbest thing said on this thread so far. A PERSISTANT world MMO is nothing like a movie or a book, which have endings, and are then continued at a later point. While the content of an MMO certainly needs to stay updated, (I never said I didn't like the new direction in story in the xpacs) the game mechanics do not need to be overhauled with every expansion. That notion is ludacris.
Think before posting. Something not really common on message boards. UGH.
You totally missed my point. I didn't say they were exactly like movies. I was simply suggesting that a change in pace is good (or bad) for a game. Especially for an MMO.
You complain about the changes ahead, but once again, you haven't even played the game, and yet, you still try to defend your point about these stat removals make the game "dumbed down." How can you possibly say that if you haven't experienced what the game is like with these new innovations? When someone gives you a book for a present, are you offended because they think you're stupid? I mean, they're pretty much saying you should read this, and become informed because you're too stupid right now. Right?
My point is, you're assuming (assume = making an ASS of U and ME) that the game will suck based of information you haven't seen in action yet. Speculating is fun, don't get me wrong, but what you're saying is ridiculous because there's no way you can even judge the game based off information like that.
I can't tell if you're trolling me, or really this dumb. The expansion isn't a present that the giftee recieves without knowing the first thing about it.
There is NO speculation going on. The things I have a problem with were officially released by Blizzard. They are not rumors.
Right... so you know exactly how the game will play and feel with this new information, even though you haven't seen it in action? is that what you're saying?
After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.
Some of the highlights: "Talent trees should be more fun." - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon? Why do you assume that making a talent tree more fun means making it easier to understand, even that isn't dumbing it down, just making things clearer. "More fun" could just refer to making a certain effect gained by a talent gorier or or giving that effect a smoother animation. I actually lol'd at the fact that Blizzard basically said, "Let's make talents more fun" and you attack them, "Fun!? Oh god no, jesus christ I don't want 'fun'" "Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.
"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. Unnecessary, as in not needed as in there is no point in having them. Also, again with "make all core stats more appealing" and again you reprimand Blizzard for this. Do you hate all joy or just MMOs? "Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.
Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. No matter how much Blizz changes WoW, it will always provide an advantage to players that read up and play the game more, its natural. The players will always have more experiences in game and will learn from them, they'll experience things that Blizz cant add into the game. I want my game back, and you should too.
Second of all, God forbid that a new game NOT be like the sequel. Do you read sequels to books, or see sequels to movies and expect them to be the exact same? No, you don't. You want something different. So why do you want a game that's the same? Think before posting. Something not really common on message boards. UGH.
Pretty much the dumbest thing said on this thread so far. A PERSISTANT world MMO is nothing like a movie or a book, which have endings, and are then continued at a later point. While the content of an MMO certainly needs to stay updated, (I never said I didn't like the new direction in story in the xpacs) the game mechanics do not need to be overhauled with every expansion. That notion is ludacris.
Think before posting. Something not really common on message boards. UGH.
You totally missed my point. I didn't say they were exactly like movies. I was simply suggesting that a change in pace is good (or bad) for a game. Especially for an MMO.
You complain about the changes ahead, but once again, you haven't even played the game, and yet, you still try to defend your point about these stat removals make the game "dumbed down." How can you possibly say that if you haven't experienced what the game is like with these new innovations? When someone gives you a book for a present, are you offended because they think you're stupid? I mean, they're pretty much saying you should read this, and become informed because you're too stupid right now. Right?
My point is, you're assuming (assume = making an ASS of U and ME) that the game will suck based of information you haven't seen in action yet. Speculating is fun, don't get me wrong, but what you're saying is ridiculous because there's no way you can even judge the game based off information like that.
I can't tell if you're trolling me, or really this dumb. The expansion isn't a present that the giftee recieves without knowing the first thing about it.
There is NO speculation going on. The things I have a problem with were officially released by Blizzard. They are not rumors.
Right... so you know exactly how the game will play and feel with this new information, even though you haven't seen it in action? is that what you're saying?
Of course. I've been playing the game since launch. Neither of the 2 xpacs changed the game so much that it was unrecognizable. I knew the badge system in BC would make the game more carebear, and it did. I know the dumbing-down of this game will be the last straw for me.
After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.
Some of the highlights: "Talent trees should be more fun." - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon? Why do you assume that making a talent tree more fun means making it easier to understand, even that isn't dumbing it down, just making things clearer. "More fun" could just refer to making a certain effect gained by a talent gorier or or giving that effect a smoother animation. I actually lol'd at the fact that Blizzard basically said, "Let's make talents more fun" and you attack them, "Fun!? Oh god no, jesus christ I don't want 'fun'" I don't think he is attacking them for making it more "fun". I believe he is pissed because "fun" is not a justifiable word for what they are doing. And I'm not sure what you mean by making it more "clearer" as if there was a problem understanding the trees. "Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.
"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. Unnecessary, as in not needed as in there is no point in having them. Also, again with "make all core stats more appealing" and again you reprimand Blizzard for this. Do you hate all joy or just MMOs? I see a lot of people saying they was unnecessary? How exactly? Let's not be the common parrot and repeat what we was told. Give reasons. Mp5, understandable. Spirits only cause was regen, and mp5 had that in common. Now attack power was a strait foward damage increase. where as agility served more then one cause, Armor, crit, AttP, dodge and so on. Same goes for intellect. They was not unnecessary. It gave the game flavor and choice. Now blizz is driving you guys down a one way road and you guys are to blinded to see this. "Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.
Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. No matter how much Blizz changes WoW, it will always provide an advantage to players that read up and play the game more, its natural. The players will always have more experiences in game and will learn from them, they'll experience things that Blizz cant add into the game. I believe if people followed what you said and just learned how everything worked, half the shit that was confusing or what you call "unnecessary" would still be around. I want my game back, and you should too.
Of course. I've been playing the game since launch. Neither of the 2 xpacs changed the game so much that it was unrecognizable. I knew the badge system in BC would make the game more carebear, and it did. I know the dumbing-down of this game will be the last straw for me.
You forgot to mention rated BGs.
In before Arena was cluttered, unnecessary, redundant, hard, and complicated.
Blizzard have always been trying to make WoW more accessible and spend way too much time listening to the whingers on forums. However like some of the responses on here have already said...people don't play games to do maths.. games should be enjoyable not something where you're obsessively scrunching numbers.
Tbh though, whinge as much as you want about the changes, I think pvpers got hit the worst a long time ago with this game.. blizzard have pretty much made it possible for anyone to enjoy success in pvp. Look at all the changes they made.. hunters were too dumb to learn to feign death + frost trap so they made them usable in combat.. still they were too dumb to know how to kite so they gave them a move which made them jump back x amount of yards. Rogues were too dumb to learn how to close the distance against ranged classes without sprint so they gave them shadowstep.. I could go on.
Still, I wonder why blizzard are trying to make the game more accessible? The game peaked before TBC hit or at least i'm assuming so as lets be honest, other than arenas, there hasn't really been much new in the way of progression.. it's the same old warm of farcraft. So the majority of the WoW fanbase are used to the old difficulty... are they trying to get even more new people to play it? Sorry but most adults would run a mile at the thought of playing a game filled with people who can't even string a sentance of English together and they'd run an extra thousand miles the moment they realised a lot of these people aren't doing it because they're 10-16, they're doing it because they think it's cool.. adults included.
After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.
Some of the highlights: "Talent trees should be more fun." - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?
"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.
"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought.
"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.
Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held.
I want my game back, and you should too.
This is mostly Ghostcrawler's work. Do remember his comments about affliction warlocks? If so then none of this should be a surprise for you.
After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.
Some of the highlights: "Talent trees should be more fun." - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?
"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.
"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought.
"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.
Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held.
I want my game back, and you should too.
I just want people like you to go away. Game's fine.
Ultima Online vet here. Been playing since 1999 all the way up until 2008, now I play off and on.
I love World of Warcraft. It's not for newbies only, it's a legitimate game. A lot of veterans in the MMO world play WoW. For many of reasons too. Maybe because they like the art style, maybe their friends all play, maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game.
I enjoy it because it's a very well polished game with some of the best art direction and musical scores. The game caters to me, to someone that loved the harsh world of Sosaria with some of the most difficult learning curves in all MMO's.
/played-mmorpgs
Total time played:9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
Ultima Online vet here. Been playing since 1999 all the way up until 2008, now I play off and on.
I love World of Warcraft. It's not for newbies only, it's a legitimate game. A lot of veterans in the MMO world play WoW. For many of reasons too. Maybe because they like the art style, maybe their friends all play, maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game.
I enjoy it because it's a very well polished game with some of the best art direction and musical scores. The game caters to me, to someone that loved the harsh world of Sosaria with some of the most difficult learning curves in all MMO's.
This is good to see. Yes I agree highly with you saying " maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game." Having college eating up most of my life now days, its hard to get back to where i was back in the day. But don't you miss the feeling of downing a boss that brought half of group to its knees, after failed attempts for weeks? Having a guild, so well organized it felt like you knew them for years? I mean the game has come to PuGing anything and everything, I mean there is a reason its called a PuG. You can pretty much solo and come out where an end game raider is(or its coming closer to that).
I guess one big thing that brings a tear to my eye now days is seeing everyone riding "Winterspring Sabers". When i finished getting the rep for that damn mount, i think i slept better that night than i ever had in my life. And now the rep is so easy to get that everyone and their grandma could get one. True, that at a higher level its easy to kill the lower level mobs and do the quest quicker, but my point is, they need more challenges like how this one was before TBC. (dont even get me started on getting Grand Marshall/Warlord, though i never had it, there is a reason why).
Ultima Online vet here. Been playing since 1999 all the way up until 2008, now I play off and on.
I love World of Warcraft. It's not for newbies only, it's a legitimate game. A lot of veterans in the MMO world play WoW. For many of reasons too. Maybe because they like the art style, maybe their friends all play, maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game.
I enjoy it because it's a very well polished game with some of the best art direction and musical scores. The game caters to me, to someone that loved the harsh world of Sosaria with some of the most difficult learning curves in all MMO's.
This is good to see. Yes I agree highly with you saying " maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game." Having college eating up most of my life now days, its hard to get back to where i was back in the day. But don't you miss the feeling of downing a boss that brought half of group to its knees, after failed attempts for weeks? Having a guild, so well organized it felt like you knew them for years? I mean the game has come to PuGing anything and everything, I mean there is a reason its called a PuG. You can pretty much solo and come out where an end game raider is(or its coming closer to that).
I guess one big thing that brings a tear to my eye now days is seeing everyone riding "Winterspring Sabers". When i finished getting the rep for that damn mount, i think i slept better that night than i ever had in my life. And now the rep is so easy to get that everyone and their grandma could get one. True, that at a higher level its easy to kill the lower level mobs and do the quest quicker, but my point is, they need more challenges like how this one was before TBC. (dont even get me started on getting Grand Marshall/Warlord, though i never had it, there is a reason why).
You bring some very nice points to this. Yes, I will say with all my gamer heart that I do miss the days that things were more of a challenge. So much so that I still play Ultima Online now and then. No game, to me, will replace how you felt when you defeated another player in a gank, or the feel of the everyday tension when you are out on your own trying to make money (and not trying to get killed). The guilds that I was involved with in Ultima were something else too. I have yet to see a guild so organized and so much about the 'family' in any other game today. It was more about friendship and less about loot (UO didn't have much loot in the day). Yes, I miss this very much.
I will agree with you that WoW is basically handing out everything to its players. When you work so hard for something then 1-2 years later its easy to get. That is just annoying, but it is how it is now. Every game is ending up to cater more to the casual crowd, more than just WoW. You've seen all the MMO's out there these days, none of them have the depth of a real MMO. Hell even the Nintendo Wii shows what sells a game/console. Companies found the sweet spot, so to speak, and are taking advantage of it. But I digress. Blizzard is catering to the masses with WoW, there is no doubt about that. But they still have so much love their game, which is why I believe it does so well along side of it's simplicity. Yes I miss the hard days, but at the same time I welcome the easy days too. Not because I want things so easily, but because I've accepted and realize to keep the gaming business going strong we needed this to happen to grow. And like I said before, life doesn't allow me to go back and play UO like I used too. I like how I can log in, do a couple of quests / PVP / dailies then log out.
I will always miss what MMO's used to be, but I've moved on and accepted what they are.
/played-mmorpgs
Total time played:9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
This is possibly one of "the" most retarded threads I have ever seen.
I've been playing MMOs since UO was in Beta. UO, SWG at the begining... everything. I've bought or demo'd or beta'd or trial'd every MMO on the market...
WoW is still my game. I spent months of my life raiding Molten Core and such in Vanilla, Karazahn later and BT... Naxx, Maly, Ulduar...
I'm about as "old school" of a MMO gamer and as "old school" of a WoW raider as you can get.
And the new changes in Cataclysm have me extremely excited.
Sure, it was kind of fun to have to balance about a dozen stats as a Warrior Tank... but gettinng rid of defense and making block an actually worthwhile mitigation stat have me really excited.
The idea behind the new talent Mastery system is great too. Allowing for more fun and interesting talent choices rather then "having" to pick up all the +5% nonsense.
Throw in the Path of the Titans progression through archaeology,Wargen and Goblins.. some new class/race combos and of course the remake of all original 1-60 content and I'm SOO excited for Cataclysm.
Unfortunately between WotLK announcement and release was 15 months... hope we don't have to wait till winter/spring 2010 for WoW:C
After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.
Some of the highlights: "Talent trees should be more fun." - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon? I don't get the problem. Fun doesn't necessarily mean less complex.
"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial. It makes perfect sense that you should get more advancement for making complex items than components.
"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought. Let's see:
Spell Power/Attack Power
Armor Penetration
Crit Rating
Haste Rating
Hit Rating
Weapon Skill
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Block
Resilience
Armor Rating
[x] Resistance That's 6 different stats that basically determine how much damage you do, and 7 different stats that determine how much damage you take. Total overkill, and only interesting for people who like to reverse engineer the math of the game and spend more time outside the game than in it.
"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money. People don't play video games so they can sit there with a calculator or reading tons of websites trying to figure out how to play the game.
Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held. Theorycrafting and led-by-the nose mods and guides is exactly what's wrong with WoW to begin with. Nothing about the game rewards the ability to think on the fly. It's all about sitting around outside the game with a spreadsheet and a script, and then hitting button x when the mod tells you to. If you wanna do math problems, work for an insurance company.
I want my game back, and you should too. Wrong. They aren't doing enough. I'd rather they take all the numbers out of the game, randomize the encounters, and make players feel their way through it rather than calculating their way through it.
I agree with this too.
The red says it all and singlecell is pwned. If you think vanilla WoW was hard how the frak did you manage to play through BC and WotLK? The number of stats and crap we have to juggle these days to min/max is absurd. No way, compared to Vanilla WoW, todays WoW is way more complex! And yes it does take sitting around with a caculator to try to squeeze out as much as you can with speccing and gear. I hate it. That is one aspect of this game I truly hate is the way you have to have this spec and this gear in order to be effective in game and it sucks. Don't tell me Vanilla WoW was easier...because it was a walk in the park compared to what we have today.
Obviouslly, none of you experienced WoW 1.0 raiding in all its glory. Like so many fail players these days that love the dumbing down of the game, you were the bitter ones who couldn't raid when it required skill. I hate the direction of the game, and so does my whole guild and everyone on my 10 man teams. I haven't talked to anyone who hasn't lol'd or groaned at the notes becuase the people I play with are...ya know...good.
I enjoy comments like these that boast how much skill it takes to accomplish something in an MMO, especially in a game like WoW which has always been one of the most forgiving MMOs out there. Do not confuse skill with time and experience, which is all that it takes to do ANYTHING in an MMO. Please, get off of the ego-trip -- these games do not take skill... a third grader armed with the same knowledge can do anything that you can.
After reading through the expansion notes, it is clear that Blizzard believes the vast majority of their subscribers are below the age of 12, or below the average IQ threshold. The game used to be challenging, but has been slowly becoming simpler and easier since BC. With 3.2, the game took a huge step in this direction, but I could never have expected Blizz to dumb the game down as much as they are proposing to do in the new xpac.
Some of the highlights: "Talent trees should be more fun." - More fun? So a well thought out spec will no longer be neccessary to maximizing the potential of your toon?
"Multi-gains will be added, while you level up your trade skills, rare items will give you more points as you skill up." - Crafting was always a joke, now it is even more superficial.
"We want to remove all unnecessary stats, make all existing stats understandable, and make all "core" stats more appealing." - Code for "You are too dumb to understand some basic math, so we will remove the mystery of itemization." This is what is going to force me not to buy the xpac. Theorycrafting is out the window, and itemizing no longer takes any thought.
"Armor Penetration: This ability is too confusing and "mathy." This sums it all up for me. We, as wow players, are too dumb to play this game anymore. They must dumb it down for us to understand it. They are insulting us, destroying our game, and most of us will still stand in line at midnight to give them money.
Gone is the challenge WoW 1.0 offered. Gone is the rivalry between the Alliance and Horde. Gone is any skill requirement. Gone is the ability to gain an advantage over other players because you put in the time to theorycraft and research. Long-gone is the epic feeling the game once held.
I want my game back, and you should too.
I'm not a WoW fanboi, in fact I've grown to hate it. But what you say is a load of bull. Simpler and easier since BC?? I want my game back too, not what it is now a big game of who is in the top percentile in a spreadsheet. Something is very very wrong with a game when you need a spreadsheet (even the spreadsheets have become more complex) to calculate max dps for a particular combination of items and gems.
Most players want better items, but trying to differentiate between 2 very similar items became a meta-game. I don't believe many enjoyed that aspect. Especially if you play a hybrid character AND the number of permutation is going to increase exponentiallly now that there are 2 new races and more class/race combinations.
Has anyone been to sites such as elitejerks/pvpers etc and seen the amount of theorycrafting involved, which can change with a minor patch. The amount of analysing is too much and I don't care what type of player you are, this is way way too much. I think that even the most die-hard min/maxing theorycrafting nerd will applaud this.
Originally posted by MaeEye I will agree with you that WoW is basically handing out everything to its players. When you work so hard for something then 1-2 years later its easy to get. That is just annoying, but it is how it is now. Every game is ending up to cater more to the casual crowd, more than just WoW.
I blame society:)
There is too much emphasis on possessions so people get wired to think of their achievements in terms of what they own and how much it is worth. People seem to have forgotten to appreciate an achievement for what it is, an acknowledgement that you did something difficult.
One regret I have about my days raiding in vanilla WoW is that I never defeated Nefarion in BWL. By the time my guild got to him, we were too burned out on raiding and the expansion was a month away. I could care less about the loot he dropped but I never got the feeling of achievement for beating that fight. When we first beat Onyxia and Ragnaros it was a great feeling. When we started farming those bosses and I got my loot from them the feeling was one of tedium. The gear grind actually diminished my achievement of beating these fights since farming an encounter will trivialize it.
Right now I would really like to beat Ulduur and I could care less whether I get gear from it or not. In fact being able to get gear from other sources is very freeing since I can view the encounters as challenges rather than as a gear grind. It is very liberating to not have to define my in-game 'triumphs' by pieces of game code.
The number of stats and crap we have to juggle these days to min/max is absurd
Wrong, you just fall into the average player that doesn't know wtf they are doing.
DPS Physical Required Stats
Crit Rating
Hit Rating
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice Stats (these stats often come on pieces of gear without even focusing on it)
Haste
Armor Pen
DPS Physical PvP Stats
Resilience
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor Pen
Dodge
Armor
Apparently the only complex part of physical dps is PvP. Even then half the stats are listed under personal choice, even then only some of those are viable dependant on what class you play.
DPS Caster Required Stats
Crit Rating
Spell Power
Hit Rating
DPS Caster Personal Choice Stats
Haste
DPS Caster PvP Stats
Spell Power
Spell Pen
Resilience
DPS Caster Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor
Warrior Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Block
Druid Tank Stats
Armor
Defense (easy as hell to even deal with as a druid)
Dodge
Death Knight Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Paladin Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
(Block is less viable due to Holy Shield)
Warriors seem to have it worse when it comes to tanking. And as far as tanking goes. Hit is viable but you don't need much so it's not even worth listing.
Weapon skill was listed for what reason? If you're weapon skill is not maxed for your current weapon then that should be one of your top priorities when hitting 80.
Resistances use to be the main thing in vanilla. Listing it here is pointless considering most fights which require any resistances anymore only takes maybe one piece of gear with the current element you are against because of Totems/Auras/Buffs.
Mp5 removal was the only smart move. It's only cause was mana regen. Where spirit has the exact same effect with health regen, as if health regen ever mattered.
As far as stats go (agi, str, stam etc) most of that comes with gear dependant on what class you play(look at Tier sets).
Nothing was complicated. Most of you guys that seem to like these changes don't even play WoW currently. Apparently blizzard has targeted lazy crybabys that want everything handed to them without little to no work. So basically brain dead zombies is the current target.
The number of stats and crap we have to juggle these days to min/max is absurd
Wrong, you just fall into the average player that doesn't know wtf they are doing.
DPS Physical Required Stats
Crit Rating
Hit Rating
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice Stats (these stats often come on pieces of gear without even focusing on it)
Haste
Armor Pen
DPS Physical PvP Stats
Resilience
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor Pen
Dodge
Armor
Apparently the only complex part of physical dps is PvP. Even then half the stats are listed under personal choice, even then only some of those are viable dependant on what class you play.
DPS Caster Required Stats
Crit Rating
Spell Power
Hit Rating
DPS Caster Personal Choice Stats
Haste
DPS Caster PvP Stats
Spell Power
Spell Pen
Resilience
DPS Caster Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor
Warrior Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Block
Druid Tank Stats
Armor
Defense (easy as hell to even deal with as a druid)
Dodge
Death Knight Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Paladin Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
(Block is less viable due to Holy Shield)
Warriors seem to have it worse when it comes to tanking. And as far as tanking goes. Hit is viable but you don't need much so it's not even worth listing.
Weapon skill was listed for what reason? If you're weapon skill is not maxed for your current weapon then that should be one of your top priorities when hitting 80.
Resistances use to be the main thing in vanilla. Listing it here is pointless considering most fights which require any resistances anymore only takes maybe one piece of gear with the current element you are against because of Totems/Auras/Buffs.
Mp5 removal was the only smart move. It's only cause was mana regen. Where spirit has the exact same effect with health regen, as if health regen ever mattered.
As far as stats go (agi, str, stam etc) most of that comes with gear dependant on what class you play(look at Tier sets).
Nothing was complicated. Most of you guys that seem to like these changes don't even play WoW currently. Apparently blizzard has targeted lazy crybabys that want everything handed to them without little to no work. So basically brain dead zombies is the current target.
Thank you for making my and others point so obvious. LOL!
Why don't they get rid of everything but stamina and resilience? Aren't those 2 stats the most important?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Thank you for making my and others point so obvious. LOL!
That you are lazy? And the thing you do best is cry (
No...that you think it is easy after looking at your list of different stats and stat sets and what works best for what and where. Look at all the combos and you're not even taking into consideration gear, potions, buffs and what not are you. No I did not think so. You're average gamer isn't going to want to whip out their handy dandy caculator to figure out all that BS. So yeah...you put it all up there for everyone to see that it is complicated. It may not seem like it to you, but to your average gamer...that looks like a lot of work.
No...that you think it is easy after looking at your list of different stats and stat sets and what works best for what and where. Look at all the combos and you're not even taking into consideration gear, potions, buffs and what not are you. No I did not think so. You're average gamer isn't going to want to whip out their handy dandy caculator to figure out all that BS. So yeah...you put it all up there for everyone to see that it is complicated. It may not seem like it to you, but to your average gamer...that looks like a lot of work.
First off. Gear is so simply laid out anymore it's not even a problem picking and choosing whats best for you. Most of the tier sets are now on the right track with stats that are viable to you. Potions only ever serve as a stat you have lack of such as hit, or a strait damage increas, AttP, SP. Not sure what that has to do with it, but umm ok.
I'm a pretty average gamer. I start a game, enjoy what it has to offer, I enjoy some competition and just conversing with the community. Not once have I had to break out a calculator. When It comes to MMOs studying your class is pretty much a given, unless you really wanna figure out how your class works on your own. The only non average gamer I have seen on this board is Zorndorf, that guy would still play WoW if it knocked up his sister and burned down his home.
It's not a lot of work. Half of those stats are so class dependent it's not even funny. WoW has taken some good and bad turns. I agree with the ones that make sense, Mp5 removal as a start. But this, no, this is just silly.
Edit: And just to top it off, when you listed potions,buffs. If anything that makes stat collection much more simple. Look at buffs that help, from racials, to class auras. This game is nothing but simple. People just look at it, fail to read and say "that's a lot of stuff must be complicated"
Comments
Pretty much the dumbest thing said on this thread so far. A PERSISTANT world MMO is nothing like a movie or a book, which have endings, and are then continued at a later point. While the content of an MMO certainly needs to stay updated, (I never said I didn't like the new direction in story in the xpacs) the game mechanics do not need to be overhauled with every expansion. That notion is ludacris.
Think before posting. Something not really common on message boards. UGH.
You totally missed my point. I didn't say they were exactly like movies. I was simply suggesting that a change in pace is good (or bad) for a game. Especially for an MMO.
You complain about the changes ahead, but once again, you haven't even played the game, and yet, you still try to defend your point about these stat removals make the game "dumbed down." How can you possibly say that if you haven't experienced what the game is like with these new innovations? When someone gives you a book for a present, are you offended because they think you're stupid? I mean, they're pretty much saying you should read this, and become informed because you're too stupid right now. Right?
My point is, you're assuming (assume = making an ASS of U and ME) that the game will suck based of information you haven't seen in action yet. Speculating is fun, don't get me wrong, but what you're saying is ridiculous because there's no way you can even judge the game based off information like that.
I can't tell if you're trolling me, or really this dumb. The expansion isn't a present that the giftee recieves without knowing the first thing about it.
There is NO speculation going on. The things I have a problem with were officially released by Blizzard. They are not rumors.
Right... so you know exactly how the game will play and feel with this new information, even though you haven't seen it in action? is that what you're saying?
"...these forums are like soap operas"-Nihce
Pretty much the dumbest thing said on this thread so far. A PERSISTANT world MMO is nothing like a movie or a book, which have endings, and are then continued at a later point. While the content of an MMO certainly needs to stay updated, (I never said I didn't like the new direction in story in the xpacs) the game mechanics do not need to be overhauled with every expansion. That notion is ludacris.
Think before posting. Something not really common on message boards. UGH.
You totally missed my point. I didn't say they were exactly like movies. I was simply suggesting that a change in pace is good (or bad) for a game. Especially for an MMO.
You complain about the changes ahead, but once again, you haven't even played the game, and yet, you still try to defend your point about these stat removals make the game "dumbed down." How can you possibly say that if you haven't experienced what the game is like with these new innovations? When someone gives you a book for a present, are you offended because they think you're stupid? I mean, they're pretty much saying you should read this, and become informed because you're too stupid right now. Right?
My point is, you're assuming (assume = making an ASS of U and ME) that the game will suck based of information you haven't seen in action yet. Speculating is fun, don't get me wrong, but what you're saying is ridiculous because there's no way you can even judge the game based off information like that.
I can't tell if you're trolling me, or really this dumb. The expansion isn't a present that the giftee recieves without knowing the first thing about it.
There is NO speculation going on. The things I have a problem with were officially released by Blizzard. They are not rumors.
Right... so you know exactly how the game will play and feel with this new information, even though you haven't seen it in action? is that what you're saying?
Of course. I've been playing the game since launch. Neither of the 2 xpacs changed the game so much that it was unrecognizable. I knew the badge system in BC would make the game more carebear, and it did. I know the dumbing-down of this game will be the last straw for me.
You forgot to mention rated BGs.
In before Arena was cluttered, unnecessary, redundant, hard, and complicated.
Blizzard have always been trying to make WoW more accessible and spend way too much time listening to the whingers on forums. However like some of the responses on here have already said...people don't play games to do maths.. games should be enjoyable not something where you're obsessively scrunching numbers.
Tbh though, whinge as much as you want about the changes, I think pvpers got hit the worst a long time ago with this game.. blizzard have pretty much made it possible for anyone to enjoy success in pvp. Look at all the changes they made.. hunters were too dumb to learn to feign death + frost trap so they made them usable in combat.. still they were too dumb to know how to kite so they gave them a move which made them jump back x amount of yards. Rogues were too dumb to learn how to close the distance against ranged classes without sprint so they gave them shadowstep.. I could go on.
Still, I wonder why blizzard are trying to make the game more accessible? The game peaked before TBC hit or at least i'm assuming so as lets be honest, other than arenas, there hasn't really been much new in the way of progression.. it's the same old warm of farcraft. So the majority of the WoW fanbase are used to the old difficulty... are they trying to get even more new people to play it? Sorry but most adults would run a mile at the thought of playing a game filled with people who can't even string a sentance of English together and they'd run an extra thousand miles the moment they realised a lot of these people aren't doing it because they're 10-16, they're doing it because they think it's cool.. adults included.
This is mostly Ghostcrawler's work. Do remember his comments about affliction warlocks? If so then none of this should be a surprise for you.
I just want people like you to go away. Game's fine.
Insightful comment. No wonder Blizz thinks they have to lower the required IQ to play the game.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Ultima Online vet here. Been playing since 1999 all the way up until 2008, now I play off and on.
I love World of Warcraft. It's not for newbies only, it's a legitimate game. A lot of veterans in the MMO world play WoW. For many of reasons too. Maybe because they like the art style, maybe their friends all play, maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game.
I enjoy it because it's a very well polished game with some of the best art direction and musical scores. The game caters to me, to someone that loved the harsh world of Sosaria with some of the most difficult learning curves in all MMO's.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
This is good to see. Yes I agree highly with you saying " maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game." Having college eating up most of my life now days, its hard to get back to where i was back in the day. But don't you miss the feeling of downing a boss that brought half of group to its knees, after failed attempts for weeks? Having a guild, so well organized it felt like you knew them for years? I mean the game has come to PuGing anything and everything, I mean there is a reason its called a PuG. You can pretty much solo and come out where an end game raider is(or its coming closer to that).
I guess one big thing that brings a tear to my eye now days is seeing everyone riding "Winterspring Sabers". When i finished getting the rep for that damn mount, i think i slept better that night than i ever had in my life. And now the rep is so easy to get that everyone and their grandma could get one. True, that at a higher level its easy to kill the lower level mobs and do the quest quicker, but my point is, they need more challenges like how this one was before TBC. (dont even get me started on getting Grand Marshall/Warlord, though i never had it, there is a reason why).
This is good to see. Yes I agree highly with you saying " maybe they don't have time like they used to for a game." Having college eating up most of my life now days, its hard to get back to where i was back in the day. But don't you miss the feeling of downing a boss that brought half of group to its knees, after failed attempts for weeks? Having a guild, so well organized it felt like you knew them for years? I mean the game has come to PuGing anything and everything, I mean there is a reason its called a PuG. You can pretty much solo and come out where an end game raider is(or its coming closer to that).
I guess one big thing that brings a tear to my eye now days is seeing everyone riding "Winterspring Sabers". When i finished getting the rep for that damn mount, i think i slept better that night than i ever had in my life. And now the rep is so easy to get that everyone and their grandma could get one. True, that at a higher level its easy to kill the lower level mobs and do the quest quicker, but my point is, they need more challenges like how this one was before TBC. (dont even get me started on getting Grand Marshall/Warlord, though i never had it, there is a reason why).
You bring some very nice points to this. Yes, I will say with all my gamer heart that I do miss the days that things were more of a challenge. So much so that I still play Ultima Online now and then. No game, to me, will replace how you felt when you defeated another player in a gank, or the feel of the everyday tension when you are out on your own trying to make money (and not trying to get killed). The guilds that I was involved with in Ultima were something else too. I have yet to see a guild so organized and so much about the 'family' in any other game today. It was more about friendship and less about loot (UO didn't have much loot in the day). Yes, I miss this very much.
I will agree with you that WoW is basically handing out everything to its players. When you work so hard for something then 1-2 years later its easy to get. That is just annoying, but it is how it is now. Every game is ending up to cater more to the casual crowd, more than just WoW. You've seen all the MMO's out there these days, none of them have the depth of a real MMO. Hell even the Nintendo Wii shows what sells a game/console. Companies found the sweet spot, so to speak, and are taking advantage of it. But I digress. Blizzard is catering to the masses with WoW, there is no doubt about that. But they still have so much love their game, which is why I believe it does so well along side of it's simplicity. Yes I miss the hard days, but at the same time I welcome the easy days too. Not because I want things so easily, but because I've accepted and realize to keep the gaming business going strong we needed this to happen to grow. And like I said before, life doesn't allow me to go back and play UO like I used too. I like how I can log in, do a couple of quests / PVP / dailies then log out.
I will always miss what MMO's used to be, but I've moved on and accepted what they are.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
This is possibly one of "the" most retarded threads I have ever seen.
I've been playing MMOs since UO was in Beta. UO, SWG at the begining... everything. I've bought or demo'd or beta'd or trial'd every MMO on the market...
WoW is still my game. I spent months of my life raiding Molten Core and such in Vanilla, Karazahn later and BT... Naxx, Maly, Ulduar...
I'm about as "old school" of a MMO gamer and as "old school" of a WoW raider as you can get.
And the new changes in Cataclysm have me extremely excited.
Sure, it was kind of fun to have to balance about a dozen stats as a Warrior Tank... but gettinng rid of defense and making block an actually worthwhile mitigation stat have me really excited.
The idea behind the new talent Mastery system is great too. Allowing for more fun and interesting talent choices rather then "having" to pick up all the +5% nonsense.
Throw in the Path of the Titans progression through archaeology,Wargen and Goblins.. some new class/race combos and of course the remake of all original 1-60 content and I'm SOO excited for Cataclysm.
Unfortunately between WotLK announcement and release was 15 months... hope we don't have to wait till winter/spring 2010 for WoW:C
Your opinion is immaterial.
I agree with this too.
The red says it all and singlecell is pwned. If you think vanilla WoW was hard how the frak did you manage to play through BC and WotLK? The number of stats and crap we have to juggle these days to min/max is absurd. No way, compared to Vanilla WoW, todays WoW is way more complex! And yes it does take sitting around with a caculator to try to squeeze out as much as you can with speccing and gear. I hate it. That is one aspect of this game I truly hate is the way you have to have this spec and this gear in order to be effective in game and it sucks. Don't tell me Vanilla WoW was easier...because it was a walk in the park compared to what we have today.
I enjoy comments like these that boast how much skill it takes to accomplish something in an MMO, especially in a game like WoW which has always been one of the most forgiving MMOs out there. Do not confuse skill with time and experience, which is all that it takes to do ANYTHING in an MMO. Please, get off of the ego-trip -- these games do not take skill... a third grader armed with the same knowledge can do anything that you can.
I'm not a WoW fanboi, in fact I've grown to hate it. But what you say is a load of bull. Simpler and easier since BC?? I want my game back too, not what it is now a big game of who is in the top percentile in a spreadsheet. Something is very very wrong with a game when you need a spreadsheet (even the spreadsheets have become more complex) to calculate max dps for a particular combination of items and gems.
Most players want better items, but trying to differentiate between 2 very similar items became a meta-game. I don't believe many enjoyed that aspect. Especially if you play a hybrid character AND the number of permutation is going to increase exponentiallly now that there are 2 new races and more class/race combinations.
Has anyone been to sites such as elitejerks/pvpers etc and seen the amount of theorycrafting involved, which can change with a minor patch. The amount of analysing is too much and I don't care what type of player you are, this is way way too much. I think that even the most die-hard min/maxing theorycrafting nerd will applaud this.
I blame society:)
There is too much emphasis on possessions so people get wired to think of their achievements in terms of what they own and how much it is worth. People seem to have forgotten to appreciate an achievement for what it is, an acknowledgement that you did something difficult.
One regret I have about my days raiding in vanilla WoW is that I never defeated Nefarion in BWL. By the time my guild got to him, we were too burned out on raiding and the expansion was a month away. I could care less about the loot he dropped but I never got the feeling of achievement for beating that fight. When we first beat Onyxia and Ragnaros it was a great feeling. When we started farming those bosses and I got my loot from them the feeling was one of tedium. The gear grind actually diminished my achievement of beating these fights since farming an encounter will trivialize it.
Right now I would really like to beat Ulduur and I could care less whether I get gear from it or not. In fact being able to get gear from other sources is very freeing since I can view the encounters as challenges rather than as a gear grind. It is very liberating to not have to define my in-game 'triumphs' by pieces of game code.
Wrong, you just fall into the average player that doesn't know wtf they are doing.
DPS Physical Required Stats
Crit Rating
Hit Rating
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice Stats (these stats often come on pieces of gear without even focusing on it)
Haste
Armor Pen
DPS Physical PvP Stats
Resilience
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor Pen
Dodge
Armor
Apparently the only complex part of physical dps is PvP. Even then half the stats are listed under personal choice, even then only some of those are viable dependant on what class you play.
DPS Caster Required Stats
Crit Rating
Spell Power
Hit Rating
DPS Caster Personal Choice Stats
Haste
DPS Caster PvP Stats
Spell Power
Spell Pen
Resilience
DPS Caster Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor
Warrior Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Block
Druid Tank Stats
Armor
Defense (easy as hell to even deal with as a druid)
Dodge
Death Knight Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Paladin Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
(Block is less viable due to Holy Shield)
Warriors seem to have it worse when it comes to tanking. And as far as tanking goes. Hit is viable but you don't need much so it's not even worth listing.
Weapon skill was listed for what reason? If you're weapon skill is not maxed for your current weapon then that should be one of your top priorities when hitting 80.
Resistances use to be the main thing in vanilla. Listing it here is pointless considering most fights which require any resistances anymore only takes maybe one piece of gear with the current element you are against because of Totems/Auras/Buffs.
Mp5 removal was the only smart move. It's only cause was mana regen. Where spirit has the exact same effect with health regen, as if health regen ever mattered.
As far as stats go (agi, str, stam etc) most of that comes with gear dependant on what class you play(look at Tier sets).
Nothing was complicated. Most of you guys that seem to like these changes don't even play WoW currently. Apparently blizzard has targeted lazy crybabys that want everything handed to them without little to no work. So basically brain dead zombies is the current target.
Wrong, you just fall into the average player that doesn't know wtf they are doing.
DPS Physical Required Stats
Crit Rating
Hit Rating
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice Stats (these stats often come on pieces of gear without even focusing on it)
Haste
Armor Pen
DPS Physical PvP Stats
Resilience
Attack Power
DPS Physical Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor Pen
Dodge
Armor
Apparently the only complex part of physical dps is PvP. Even then half the stats are listed under personal choice, even then only some of those are viable dependant on what class you play.
DPS Caster Required Stats
Crit Rating
Spell Power
Hit Rating
DPS Caster Personal Choice Stats
Haste
DPS Caster PvP Stats
Spell Power
Spell Pen
Resilience
DPS Caster Personal Choice PvP Stats
Hit Rating
Crit Rating
Haste
Armor
Warrior Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Block
Druid Tank Stats
Armor
Defense (easy as hell to even deal with as a druid)
Dodge
Death Knight Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
Paladin Tank Stats
Armor
Defense
Dodge
Parry
(Block is less viable due to Holy Shield)
Warriors seem to have it worse when it comes to tanking. And as far as tanking goes. Hit is viable but you don't need much so it's not even worth listing.
Weapon skill was listed for what reason? If you're weapon skill is not maxed for your current weapon then that should be one of your top priorities when hitting 80.
Resistances use to be the main thing in vanilla. Listing it here is pointless considering most fights which require any resistances anymore only takes maybe one piece of gear with the current element you are against because of Totems/Auras/Buffs.
Mp5 removal was the only smart move. It's only cause was mana regen. Where spirit has the exact same effect with health regen, as if health regen ever mattered.
As far as stats go (agi, str, stam etc) most of that comes with gear dependant on what class you play(look at Tier sets).
Nothing was complicated. Most of you guys that seem to like these changes don't even play WoW currently. Apparently blizzard has targeted lazy crybabys that want everything handed to them without little to no work. So basically brain dead zombies is the current target.
Thank you for making my and others point so obvious. LOL!
That you are lazy? And the thing you do best is cry
(
Why don't they get rid of everything but stamina and resilience? Aren't those 2 stats the most important?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
That you are lazy? And the thing you do best is cry
(
No...that you think it is easy after looking at your list of different stats and stat sets and what works best for what and where. Look at all the combos and you're not even taking into consideration gear, potions, buffs and what not are you. No I did not think so. You're average gamer isn't going to want to whip out their handy dandy caculator to figure out all that BS. So yeah...you put it all up there for everyone to see that it is complicated. It may not seem like it to you, but to your average gamer...that looks like a lot of work.
First off. Gear is so simply laid out anymore it's not even a problem picking and choosing whats best for you. Most of the tier sets are now on the right track with stats that are viable to you. Potions only ever serve as a stat you have lack of such as hit, or a strait damage increas, AttP, SP. Not sure what that has to do with it, but umm ok.
I'm a pretty average gamer. I start a game, enjoy what it has to offer, I enjoy some competition and just conversing with the community. Not once have I had to break out a calculator. When It comes to MMOs studying your class is pretty much a given, unless you really wanna figure out how your class works on your own. The only non average gamer I have seen on this board is Zorndorf, that guy would still play WoW if it knocked up his sister and burned down his home.
It's not a lot of work. Half of those stats are so class dependent it's not even funny. WoW has taken some good and bad turns. I agree with the ones that make sense, Mp5 removal as a start. But this, no, this is just silly.
Edit: And just to top it off, when you listed potions,buffs. If anything that makes stat collection much more simple. Look at buffs that help, from racials, to class auras. This game is nothing but simple. People just look at it, fail to read and say "that's a lot of stuff must be complicated"