Originally posted by Copeland I stand by what i've said. You can debate it in a year when your playing some other game remembering your great time on WoW.
guess you dont follow mmorpg's too much, but 'the next great thing' hype before its released is just that - hype. WoW is out right now, people have their hands on it, playing it, and enjoying it, while its getting rave reviews. Naysay all you want, just like the naysayers before WOW was ever released that tried to act like it was going to be bust, kinda funny how quiet they are these days
I played UO for 3+ years, i played EQ for at least 2~, many others played those games for a long time as well, so not sure where your getting this 1 year~ figure from. In anycase, i dont even see any mmorpg's in development that are nearly as anticipated to the masses as EQ2 or WOW were, and lets be honest here, this is Blizzard who does games better than everyone else by far, even w/ their first foray into a new genre(WOW). I sure as hell trust them more than i do any other gaming company by far, let alone the no-names i've never heard of.
So please tell everyone what the next great thing will be on the horizon that will draw everyone away from WOW, personally i dont see one that is going to draw the masses like EQ2 or WOW were. Sure it could happen, but seeing how it took this long after UO and EQ1 to really bring back that magic in a mmorpg, i doubt it'll be anytiime soon, let alone a year~
Blizzard > everyone else, sorry if the truth hurts
It's just the game what you feel more for.. I've played over more then 4 years Redmoon and it's so addictive!.. Graphics I give it a 2.. but the Gameplay, community, sound, levelin, char.. It's just incredible good game.. I didn't played redmoon for over then 3 - 4 months but after that I had to play it cause it's just such good game ..
Well about WoW.. Hmm.. many of my friends play it or love to play it.. but I can't see just the possebilties in it.. It's just a standard mmorpg going for it's graphics etc.. Also because it's very well known because of Warcraft 3 .. that made players love it.. Well .. if Warcraft 3 and the rest didn't excisted the game would be poorer in the rankings then its now.. It would be something like Everquest 2..
Originally posted by Dahal It's just the game what you feel more for.. I've played over more then 4 years Redmoon and it's so addictive!.. Graphics I give it a 2.. but the Gameplay, community, sound, levelin, char.. It's just incredible good game.. I didn't played redmoon for over then 3 - 4 months but after that I had to play it cause it's just such good game .. Well about WoW.. Hmm.. many of my friends play it or love to play it.. but I can't see just the possebilties in it.. It's just a standard mmorpg going for it's graphics etc.. Also because it's very well known because of Warcraft 3 .. that made players love it.. Well .. if Warcraft 3 and the rest didn't excisted the game would be poorer in the rankings then its now.. It would be something like Everquest 2..
You will not shake us off, above or below..
fyi WOW and Warcraft 3 are totally different games. Warcraft 3 is an RTS, an RTS is nothing like an MMORPG, the only similarities are the backstories and they also carried over many of the same abilities, but added alot more for WOW. Regardless, the gameplays between an RTS and a MMORPG arent even comparable, so not sure how people can say this unless they've never played an RTS and MMORPG before. Lets just say you control units in a RTS and its more about strategy, you character build and control a character and go through a journey in a mmorpg, but thats why one is a strategy and the other is a online role playing game.
Also i dont think half the people playing WOW ever played Warcraft 3, personally i didnt care too much for it, i'd take StarCraft any day of the week instead. You should really try it before criticizing it, you might find you like it especially when your criticisms are way offbase.
I mean.. I guess much people have heard of Warcraft.. Warcraft is just some beginning of WoW.. WoW have finished it .. the storie you always followed.. but now you can do your own story.. and you shouldn't see a link between warcraft 3 rts but between the names .. storylines etc..
It's also true what you say about people see a new game test it, love it.. But then there would be samller group of people playing it.. My friends that play WoW have all played Warcraft 3... And thats y i see some kind of link between WoW and Warcraft 3.. Also a friend of mine checked WoW but he did not found the graphics great.. it's because he doesn't really know what Warcraft is etc..
EQ1? Are you kidding? Yeah - that game is classic and yeah, by now it has a very dedicated, hard-core fan base... But it's ancient. It's dying ... slowly ...
And as for those of you who say it's too easy ... you keep playing FFXI, etc. Just think of this post the next time you spend 10 hours looking for a group, or 10 hours in a group getting crap exp because one member of your party didn't think food was important.
I'm a proud convert. I was very skeptical ... but I just can't go back to the endless grind.
I think it has something to do with some of you having a "hardcore" mentality. You WANT it to take 75 days of playtime to level to the cap because that somehow makes you feel superior to those who have not yet dedicated a significant portion of their life to reaching the cap.
WoW easy? No. Standing in the same spot wacking the same mobs for hours on end is easy. I was a RDM in FFXI, which was a "hard" job... but save for the odd time when the shit hit the fan, I did the same thing endlessly... over and over ...
You folks are missing something -
TIME SINK != DIFFICULT
Kharma Trolls (Illidan) - The Official Allakhazam Posters Guild
------ Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE Currently - Bored.
The high end resolve around raiding exclusively and they are openly saying they will make it more and more with the time passing.
I am out. The nicest of jail is still...a jail!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
[quote]Lack of interesting classes, very shallow character customization, and pvp that is an after thought are the major turn offs for me.[/quote]
The game was designed around PvP.
What more do you want in terms of customization? There is a LOT of customizability in WoW... if you only played for two weeks, I doubt you got to see much of it.
Do you expect your character to be 100% unique from the moment you start the game??
Kharma Trolls (Illidan) - The Official Allakhazam Posters Guild
------ Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE Currently - Bored.
Funny enough I bought the 2 most popular gaming magazines in the UK and to be honest laughed.
One gave EQ2 94% and hinted they will give WoW lower,but their policy does not let them review a mmorpg until its launched in the UK.
The other gave WoW 95% and gave EQ2 74% and went into a very unprofessional ranting over EQ2 which nearly all their readers on the forum has commented on(both EQ2 and WoW fans at that).
Now why would 2 major magazine show such bias to 2 different game?Because this is the most major hype to hit the mmorpg world ever!
WoW has legion of warcraft fans in the whole RPG community and EQ is a cult mark in the smaller mmorpg community.Which kind of even reflects on the sales too.
This games sold as much as people knew the TRADEMARK.
I admit both are ok games but are any of them original?Not one bit.EQ2 might be technological leap but it and WoW are very unoriginal.
In 5 years ,I doubt I remember any of them like I did with UO,EQlive or DAoC that introduced originality into mmorpg.
The only achievement I can think of is the same achievement SWG made.That is bringing new people into the genre which is good.
Sorry i am playing EQ2 and i have pre ordered euro WoW and think they are ok games but certainly not near the best ever mmorpg i ever played .
Sadly,no real major leap mmorpg IMHO has come out since 2001 and I am fed up of those games.
Play WoW and EQ2 enjoy it but they are not the alpha and omega of mmorpg by any means.
If you still play EQlive,UO or DAoC and are not tired of them yet stick with them for now is my suggestion.
Originally posted by _Jord_ I do feel that hardcore MMO'ers wll feel a bit threatened though. I mean if you're like me and have spent 75+ DAYS of playtime to reach cap, it's hard to imagine dropping it and joining a game in which cap can be reached in 10 days of playtime.
Please name me all the MMORPGs in which you can reach the cap aka the highest level in 10 days playing time?
How many hours each day is your example playing? Some people play 1 hour a day so in 10 days will play 10 hours. Some play 10 hours a day, so in 10 days will play 100 hours.
I went and bought both EQ2 and WoW the first week. I found both limiting and had a poor community. I play MMO's for other players, not to play solo. If I wanted to play solo, I wouldn't pay $15/month to play with others. I felt I really wasted my money with both. Both were alright, but just didn't have any oomph. Hard to put a finger on I guess. I really enjoyed the mechanics of Shadowbane, but Ubisoft just let the game die a horrible death. Neither EQ2 or WoW is persistant. All the buildings and towns belong to the computer. Nothing for me or a guild to build. Christ, even SWG has that. EQ2 with all its looks and history still has a very clunky interface and those idiotic comments by NPC's - ugh. Cute the first dozen or so times. WoW is too cartoony and limiting. I can't even be a human hunter - huh? And Bliz added servers too fast. Many are dead most of the time. Cancelled both subscriptions before my 30 day free trial. I was ripped off. Now what do I do with useless CD's? Ebay them? Still looking for a game I can really get into.
Didn't hate WoW just not a game I like very much. Its done well, anyone who doesn't like the cartoony characters might not have liked the warcraft games, but thats okay too.
It just lacks something in my opinion, its put together well, but its just not fun to me.
4 years of subscriptions to pay for the game? Not even close. Blizzard said that just before Open Beta they spent ~10 million developing WoW, and paying for bandwidth, etc. We'll say another $1 million was spent during open beta and distribution, etc., so $11 million by release. That would take 220,000 boxes sold - they got that in the first day. So since a few hundred thousand people have already payed $15 for the second month, that would mean Blizzard is already making money.
I found this post to be a bit amusing as just how flawed people's thinking can be at times. You're assuming blizz get's the entire purchase price every time a copy of WoW sells. Well first off the vendor's doing the selling (gamestop, bestbuy, etc.) get a nice cut, then you have the production costs of making all those CD's, instruction manual, boxes etc. and whatever advertising they did for the launch. When you factor all that in and plus whatever I'm missing, they didn't make nearly $55 per copy as you assumed.
Now that the game is live they still need to pay for the massive bandwidth they use, purchase and upkeep on the 88 server clusters that are running and those servers need quite a few well paid people to keep them running. All the designers, GM staff, mods, etc. and hell, even the building that all these folks work in need to be taken care of. Oh, and I'm sure that some of that profit they may be making is being taken away by uncle sam.
Point is, at some point they'll start turning a nice profit but for now I'm certain they're still trying to make back all they spent on designing the game in the first place.
Just to re-preach what someone said on a different topic. P-2-P costs just the same as buying an expansion pack for a new game every 3 months.
e.g: The sims (not an mmorpg but o well) I drained 200+ dollars into that game. Now its a worthless peice of junk on my floor. For some reason paying a monthly fee is so much more unattractive then paying a 1-time fee. Its the same thing, except you have to look at it over a long period of time, similar to a budget. I guess that its easier for those balancing their own budget to realize that, then us kid's taking money out of our parents pockets.
On the Never Ending search for a satisfying mmorpg.
On the Never Ending search for a satisfying mmorpg.
Originally posted by kishe Wish and Dark & light will come out in 5 months...Both will have GIANT worlds...WoW's world is actually quite tiny even compared to current MMORPGs.
Dark & light, if done right will be the god of pvp mmorpgs and by what ive read Wish will actually readd RPG in the term MMORPG.
But then again, there will be those 400 thousand Diablo2/warcraft fans who wont be interested of real mmorpgs.
You know, I hear this same thing everytime a new mmoprg comes out...
* Hey, EQ sucks! But wait, SWG is comin, that will be the bomb, just wait!
* Oh, SWG is just crap, but nevermind, we will just play CoH!
* Hmm, CoH is boring and always the same grinding... EQ2 and WoW are coming, those will be really great!
* Wauw, EQ2 also just sucks and WoW is too easy, but no worries, Wish and D&L will be out soon!
One thing I have learned, is that a new thing will always get boring with the promise of something better. My advice, just play the game you like atm and if you get bored play another and come back after a while, or not.
But please, no more, "this sucks, but that will definitely be better, just wait and see!"
If WoW keeps your interest for more than a couple weeks...here, save yourself some monthly fees and play with this bouncy ball.
*ducks for cover*
im kidding! lol...
WoW is too simple for my tastes, too one dimensional. im waiting for Wish and DnL, personally. but hey if u like it great, im not bashing u for liking it...forgive my wiseassyness. but if some unkown company other than blizzard made this game, no one would give it a second look.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Originally posted by remyburke If WoW keeps your interest for more than a couple weeks...here, save yourself some monthly fees and play with this bouncy ball. *ducks for cover* im kidding! lol... WoW is too simple for my tastes, too one dimensional. im waiting for Wish and DnL, personally. but hey if u like it great, im not bashing u for liking it...forgive my wiseassyness. but if some unkown company other than blizzard made this game, no one would give it a second look.
So speculating on how things would be in a parallel dimension with 100% certainty proves your point? No. I don't think so.
Originally posted by Copeland I'm not arguing the sales i'm arguing the costs. Show me the link where blizzard says it only cost them 11 million dollars. i guarantee you it cost them well over 100 million to develop and produce WoW
Can you say Fanboy ? Can you say denial ? EQ is dead and thats not even debatable except by people in need of medication.
Oh and by the way, you are wayyyyy off on 100 million. I read on SOE's official site that they spent 20 million on EQ2 which they also bragged was a record for a mmorpg. So therefore WoW is definitely lesss than that figure. I seem to recall reading dev costs were around 10 million too. So doing some math, 500k units sold times $50 (not even counting collectors editions) = 25 million dollars. Seems to me WoW is doing quite well.
Take your elitist attitude back to EQ where it belongs. WoW is meant for the rest of us who dont spend 24/7 playing and the guild we are isnt our only friends in life.
Comments
guess you dont follow mmorpg's too much, but 'the next great thing' hype before its released is just that - hype. WoW is out right now, people have their hands on it, playing it, and enjoying it, while its getting rave reviews. Naysay all you want, just like the naysayers before WOW was ever released that tried to act like it was going to be bust, kinda funny how quiet they are these days
I played UO for 3+ years, i played EQ for at least 2~, many others played those games for a long time as well, so not sure where your getting this 1 year~ figure from. In anycase, i dont even see any mmorpg's in development that are nearly as anticipated to the masses as EQ2 or WOW were, and lets be honest here, this is Blizzard who does games better than everyone else by far, even w/ their first foray into a new genre(WOW). I sure as hell trust them more than i do any other gaming company by far, let alone the no-names i've never heard of.
So please tell everyone what the next great thing will be on the horizon that will draw everyone away from WOW, personally i dont see one that is going to draw the masses like EQ2 or WOW were. Sure it could happen, but seeing how it took this long after UO and EQ1 to really bring back that magic in a mmorpg, i doubt it'll be anytiime soon, let alone a year~
Blizzard > everyone else, sorry if the truth hurts
WoW-Why play anything else?
Erm because people like different things is why.
If I wanted to play the most popular mmorpg I be in lineage I guess .
It's just the game what you feel more for.. I've played over more then 4 years Redmoon and it's so addictive!.. Graphics I give it a 2.. but the Gameplay, community, sound, levelin, char.. It's just incredible good game.. I didn't played redmoon for over then 3 - 4 months but after that I had to play it cause it's just such good game
..
Well about WoW.. Hmm.. many of my friends play it or love to play it.. but I can't see just the possebilties in it.. It's just a standard mmorpg going for it's graphics etc.. Also because it's very well known because of Warcraft 3 .. that made players love it.. Well .. if Warcraft 3 and the rest didn't excisted the game would be poorer in the rankings then its now.. It would be something like Everquest 2..
You will not shake us off,
above or below..
You will not shake us off,
above or below..
fyi WOW and Warcraft 3 are totally different games. Warcraft 3 is an RTS, an RTS is nothing like an MMORPG, the only similarities are the backstories and they also carried over many of the same abilities, but added alot more for WOW. Regardless, the gameplays between an RTS and a MMORPG arent even comparable, so not sure how people can say this unless they've never played an RTS and MMORPG before. Lets just say you control units in a RTS and its more about strategy, you character build and control a character and go through a journey in a mmorpg, but thats why one is a strategy and the other is a online role playing game.
Also i dont think half the people playing WOW ever played Warcraft 3, personally i didnt care too much for it, i'd take StarCraft any day of the week instead. You should really try it before criticizing it, you might find you like it especially when your criticisms are way offbase.
I mean.. I guess much people have heard of Warcraft.. Warcraft is just some beginning of WoW.. WoW have finished it .. the storie you always followed.. but now you can do your own story.. and you shouldn't see a link between warcraft 3 rts but between the names .. storylines etc..
It's also true what you say about people see a new game test it, love it.. But then there would be samller group of people playing it.. My friends that play WoW have all played Warcraft 3... And thats y i see some kind of link between WoW and Warcraft 3.. Also a friend of mine checked WoW but he did not found the graphics great.. it's because he doesn't really know what Warcraft is etc..
You will not shake us off,
above or below..
You will not shake us off,
above or below..
LMAO!
I sure got all the flames I was looking for.
EQ1? Are you kidding? Yeah - that game is classic and yeah, by now it has a very dedicated, hard-core fan base... But it's ancient. It's dying ... slowly ...
And as for those of you who say it's too easy ... you keep playing FFXI, etc. Just think of this post the next time you spend 10 hours looking for a group, or 10 hours in a group getting crap exp because one member of your party didn't think food was important.
I'm a proud convert. I was very skeptical ... but I just can't go back to the endless grind.
I think it has something to do with some of you having a "hardcore" mentality. You WANT it to take 75 days of playtime to level to the cap because that somehow makes you feel superior to those who have not yet dedicated a significant portion of their life to reaching the cap.
WoW easy? No. Standing in the same spot wacking the same mobs for hours on end is easy. I was a RDM in FFXI, which was a "hard" job... but save for the odd time when the shit hit the fan, I did the same thing endlessly... over and over ...
You folks are missing something -
TIME SINK != DIFFICULT
Kharma Trolls (Illidan) - The Official Allakhazam Posters Guild
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
The high end resolve around raiding exclusively and they are openly saying they will make it more and more with the time passing.
I am out. The nicest of jail is still...a jail!
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I love WoW, but I know some people who hate it. Know others that refuse to leave EQ2 for it, just different strokes for different folks.
I think its near perfect, could use a little more polish, but it is really a solid MMO right out of the box.
Just as I thought, Jord was just troll, baiting on decent folks for his own amusement...Where is admins/mods?
I found it to be very boring after 2 weeks
its nothing new. What they have done is good , buts it the same old stuff.
Lack of interesting classes, very shallow character customization, and pvp that is an after thought are the major turn offs for me.
I LOVED the environments tho!
It aint just me either. A few weeks ago in my guild there were 15-20 people on most of the day, now theres like 3-4 lol
Why? Because in the end, its just more fed-ex type quests and auto-combat variant. End game raiding... yay.
[quote]Lack of interesting classes, very shallow character customization, and pvp that is an after thought are the major turn offs for me.[/quote]
The game was designed around PvP.
What more do you want in terms of customization? There is a LOT of customizability in WoW... if you only played for two weeks, I doubt you got to see much of it.
Do you expect your character to be 100% unique from the moment you start the game??
Kharma Trolls (Illidan) - The Official Allakhazam Posters Guild
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
I like D&D
I like D&D
Funny enough I bought the 2 most popular gaming magazines in the UK and to be honest laughed.
One gave EQ2 94% and hinted they will give WoW lower,but their policy does not let them review a mmorpg until its launched in the UK.
The other gave WoW 95% and gave EQ2 74% and went into a very unprofessional ranting over EQ2 which nearly all their readers on the forum has commented on(both EQ2 and WoW fans at that).
Now why would 2 major magazine show such bias to 2 different game?Because this is the most major hype to hit the mmorpg world ever!
WoW has legion of warcraft fans in the whole RPG community and EQ is a cult mark in the smaller mmorpg community.Which kind of even reflects on the sales too.
This games sold as much as people knew the TRADEMARK.
I admit both are ok games but are any of them original?Not one bit.EQ2 might be technological leap but it and WoW are very unoriginal.
In 5 years ,I doubt I remember any of them like I did with UO,EQlive or DAoC that introduced originality into mmorpg.
The only achievement I can think of is the same achievement SWG made.That is bringing new people into the genre which is good.
Sorry i am playing EQ2 and i have pre ordered euro WoW and think they are ok games but certainly not near the best ever mmorpg i ever played .
Sadly,no real major leap mmorpg IMHO has come out since 2001 and I am fed up of those games.
Play WoW and EQ2 enjoy it but they are not the alpha and omega of mmorpg by any means.
If you still play EQlive,UO or DAoC and are not tired of them yet stick with them for now is my suggestion.
-----------------------------------------
ummmm.......
-----------------------------------------
Please name me all the MMORPGs in which you can reach the cap aka the highest level in 10 days playing time?
How many hours each day is your example playing? Some people play 1 hour a day so in 10 days will play 10 hours. Some play 10 hours a day, so in 10 days will play 100 hours.
-Personal Website
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html
-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol
-EverQuest II:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EQ, Dungeon Siege, Diablo II, *UXO*:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
DAoC
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02
I went and bought both EQ2 and WoW the first week. I found both limiting and had a poor community. I play MMO's for other players, not to play solo. If I wanted to play solo, I wouldn't pay $15/month to play with others. I felt I really wasted my money with both. Both were alright, but just didn't have any oomph. Hard to put a finger on I guess. I really enjoyed the mechanics of Shadowbane, but Ubisoft just let the game die a horrible death. Neither EQ2 or WoW is persistant. All the buildings and towns belong to the computer. Nothing for me or a guild to build. Christ, even SWG has that. EQ2 with all its looks and history still has a very clunky interface and those idiotic comments by NPC's - ugh. Cute the first dozen or so times. WoW is too cartoony and limiting. I can't even be a human hunter - huh? And Bliz added servers too fast. Many are dead most of the time. Cancelled both subscriptions before my 30 day free trial. I was ripped off. Now what do I do with useless CD's? Ebay them? Still looking for a game I can really get into.
Didn't hate WoW just not a game I like very much. Its done well, anyone who doesn't like the cartoony characters might not have liked the warcraft games, but thats okay too.
It just lacks something in my opinion, its put together well, but its just not fun to me.
Now that the game is live they still need to pay for the massive bandwidth they use, purchase and upkeep on the 88 server clusters that are running and those servers need quite a few well paid people to keep them running. All the designers, GM staff, mods, etc. and hell, even the building that all these folks work in need to be taken care of. Oh, and I'm sure that some of that profit they may be making is being taken away by uncle sam.
Point is, at some point they'll start turning a nice profit but for now I'm certain they're still trying to make back all they spent on designing the game in the first place.
Just to re-preach what someone said on a different topic. P-2-P costs just the same as buying an expansion pack for a new game every 3 months.
e.g: The sims (not an mmorpg but o well) I drained 200+ dollars into that game. Now its a worthless peice of junk on my floor. For some reason paying a monthly fee is so much more unattractive then paying a 1-time fee. Its the same thing, except you have to look at it over a long period of time, similar to a budget. I guess that its easier for those balancing their own budget to realize that, then us kid's taking money out of our parents pockets.
On the Never Ending search for a satisfying mmorpg.
On the Never Ending search for a satisfying mmorpg.
You know, I hear this same thing everytime a new mmoprg comes out...
* Hey, EQ sucks! But wait, SWG is comin, that will be the bomb, just wait!
* Oh, SWG is just crap, but nevermind, we will just play CoH!
* Hmm, CoH is boring and always the same grinding... EQ2 and WoW are coming, those will be really great!
* Wauw, EQ2 also just sucks and WoW is too easy, but no worries, Wish and D&L will be out soon!
One thing I have learned, is that a new thing will always get boring with the promise of something better. My advice, just play the game you like atm and if you get bored play another and come back after a while, or not.
But please, no more, "this sucks, but that will definitely be better, just wait and see!"
deacis9, i agree completely.. but can anyone ever stop the "flamers"??
lol.
no.
----------
nogold.org....
If WoW keeps your interest for more than a couple weeks...here, save yourself some monthly fees and play with this bouncy ball.
*ducks for cover*
im kidding! lol...
WoW is too simple for my tastes, too one dimensional. im waiting for Wish and DnL, personally. but hey if u like it great, im not bashing u for liking it...forgive my wiseassyness.
but if some unkown company other than blizzard made this game, no one would give it a second look.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
So speculating on how things would be in a parallel dimension with 100% certainty proves your point? No. I don't think so.
Good try though.