Originally posted by Josher If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group.
I guess that depended on you as a player... I was very social in classic EQ, no matter what class I played (though I mained a cleric). I fully understood that having an extended social network beyond the guild to find groups, rezzes, TPs, whatever was essential, and so I developed and maintained one. From this basic mutual need for others came in game and RL friendships, some of which are still very much alive even today (I stopped playing around '93).
Yes, you could limit yourself to your guild, but 'needed'? Nah, not at all. I always played in smallish family type guilds (tried raiding, didnt like that), so it was important for me to build a friends list to quickly build PUGs based around players I knew and trusted when others in my guild that had the classes I needed wernt online.
I was referring to the "forced" aspect of the game. Anyone could network socially and that isn't an experience just limited to EQ nor was it essential. It was just something enjoyable to do and if you did not raid there was plenty of pugs to join and play. I still have many real life friends from my everquest days that were not part of my raid group. Socializing is something that happens in every mmo in my opinion.
The more everquest became a raid focused game, the more it pitting social groups against each other. The forced competition of the game did not foster healthy community as it pitted guilds/raids against each other. In order for someone to enjoy a specific encounter it meant everyone else on the server had to go without it for the next 7 days. I don't think it really needs explaining how hatred and animosity grew amongst many raid groups. Helping a guild that was competiting against you was not something the game encouraged. The play nice policy is testament to that.
Originally posted by Josher If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group.
I guess that depended on you as a player... I was very social in classic EQ, no matter what class I played (though I mained a cleric). I fully understood that having an extended social network beyond the guild to find groups, rezzes, TPs, whatever was essential, and so I developed and maintained one. From this basic mutual need for others came in game and RL friendships, some of which are still very much alive even today (I stopped playing around '93).
Yes, you could limit yourself to your guild, but 'needed'? Nah, not at all. I always played in smallish family type guilds (tried raiding, didnt like that), so it was important for me to build a friends list to quickly build PUGs based around players I knew and trusted when others in my guild that had the classes I needed wernt online.
I was referring to the "forced" aspect of the game. Anyone could network socially and that isn't an experience just limited to EQ nor was it essential. It was just something enjoyable to do.
Actually, for me, as I have highlighted in red, it was essential to communicate outside of my guild if I wanted to play EQ the way I wanted (non raid, small guild, group based), and I wasnt alone.
In fact, up to raid, unless you were in a zerg guild, it was the only way. Most small guilds didnt have the resources to provide you with everything you needed all the time. Hence the essential extended network. Thats what gave EQ it's wider community. By the time we reached top level most of us knew each other at least by reputation, for better or worse.
You seem to have been a raider though, based on what you have posted, and maybe a member of a larger guild, so things would have been different for you, which means obviously your perspective on the game would have been different.
As for the raiding you describe, thats one of the reasons I didnt do it. All that nasty insular guild vs guild mentality was never my bag.
We could just drop the argument and say that EverQuest was great during the 1999-2001 era because of it's then unprecedented gameplay, 3D world, lack of angry teenagers on the net, and dominance over the MMO market.
Street fighter 4 is better than street fighter 2; but people who played the original game back then have fond memories of it.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
We could just drop the argument and say that EverQuest was great during the 1999-2001 era because of it's then unprecedented gameplay, 3D world, lack of angry teenagers on the net, and dominance over the MMO market. Street fighter 4 is better than street fighter 2; but people who played the original game back then have fond memories of it.
It's like your first gf was Angelina Jolie. And everybody tells you it's just the fond memories of the first love, and you keep saying no dammit she was really great.
. Thats what gave EQ it's wider community. By the time we reached top level most of us knew each other at least by reputation, for better or worse.
Very true. By the time i reached lvl 60 in kunark, it's not that i KNEW everyone personnally, but i had a good grasp of most of the guilds with members lvl 50+, knew the big names, grouped with a few of them.
In WOW there are so many people running around, so many guilds, and the gameplay forces you to chain quests to level, that i never found the time to really socialize like i did in EQ.
In fact socializing in WOW meant having a great group, and THEN we started having fun, and eventually creating bonds.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
Originally posted by vesavius Originally posted by spades07 EQ's gameplay=forced grouping+spawn camping mostly on auto-attack the whole time. Its classes offered very little variety
The classes of Everquest: Bard -mainly twisting instruments Beastlord Beserker Cleric -mainly healing Druid -not auto-attack based Enchanter -not auto-attack based Magician -not auto-attack based Monk Necromancer -not auto-attack based Paladin Ranger Rogue Shadow Knight Warrior Wizard -not auto-attack based And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
I would add a fourth.
The Realists. We understand WHY classic EQ worked and how it achieved it's longevity and community, and why other modern games have failed. This has nothing to do with nostalgia, it's just an observation of game design and mechanics.
You have to admit Everquest had flaws. It had an appeal to some of it's old game design for sure, but some of it was just pure masochistic. I played recently and you wouldn't believe what a simple thing like a regen out of combat has improved things. Sitting for 10 or so minutes to med up was silly.
Originally posted by vesavius Actually, for me, as I have highlighted in red, it was essential to communicate outside of my guild if I wanted to play EQ the way I wanted (non raid, small guild, group based), and I wasnt alone. In fact, up to raid, unless you were in a zerg guild, it was the only way. Most small guilds didnt have the resources to provide you with everything you needed all the time. Hence the essential extended network. Thats what gave EQ it's wider community. By the time we reached top level most of us knew each other at least by reputation, for better or worse. You seem to have been a raider though, based on what you have posted, and maybe a member of a larger guild, so things would have been different for you, which means obviously your perspective on the game would have been different. As for the raiding you describe, thats one of the reasons I didnt do it. All that nasty insular guild vs guild mentality was never my bag.
I do agree with much of what you are saying. In the early days the game was far more social than it was forced gameplay. Outside of needing a group to do anything in the game, people chose to create social norms. Gathering in east common tunnels to trade (on my server it was greater faydark, evils could run to their own bank if they wanted something). Things like that and social networking was helpful, but not forced.
My point though was that the social aspect of the game was not forced. From your own personal choices it was essential, but in no way was it forced. A player could run around just playing with random strangers and do just fine until it came to raids and that is where the social part of everquest broke down.
What I am trying to say is that as the game became more raid focused which started prior to expansions, it did start to cannibalize the community aspect of the game. It many not have eliminated it, but it certained put a major hurt on it. Not to mention that other game mechanics killed other social aspects of the game: plane of knowledge portals and the bazaar for example both killed important parts of the games social interdependancies and communication.
Yes I was in a big raiding guild for a good while. I was also in a very small guild also, so I've seen both sides of EQs forced play. It was just natural for the social groups to evolve into self sustaining groups as the game got more and more focused on raiding.
Originally posted by vesavius Actually, for me, as I have highlighted in red, it was essential to communicate outside of my guild if I wanted to play EQ the way I wanted (non raid, small guild, group based), and I wasnt alone. In fact, up to raid, unless you were in a zerg guild, it was the only way. Most small guilds didnt have the resources to provide you with everything you needed all the time. Hence the essential extended network. Thats what gave EQ it's wider community. By the time we reached top level most of us knew each other at least by reputation, for better or worse. You seem to have been a raider though, based on what you have posted, and maybe a member of a larger guild, so things would have been different for you, which means obviously your perspective on the game would have been different. As for the raiding you describe, thats one of the reasons I didnt do it. All that nasty insular guild vs guild mentality was never my bag.
I do agree with much of what you are saying. In the early days the game was far more social than it was forced gameplay. Outside of needing a group to do anything in the game, people chose to create social norms. Gathering in east common tunnels to trade (on my server it was greater faydark, evils could run to their own bank if they wanted something). Things like that and social networking was helpful, but not forced.
My point though was that the social aspect of the game was not forced. From your own personal choices it was essential, but in no way was it forced. A player could run around just playing with random strangers and do just fine until it came to raids and that is where the social part of everquest broke down.
What I am trying to say is that as the game became more raid focused which started prior to expansions, it did start to cannibalize the community aspect of the game. It many not have eliminated it, but it certained put a major hurt on it. Not to mention that other game mechanics killed other social aspects of the game: plane of knowledge portals and the bazaar for example both killed important parts of the games social interdependancies and communication.
Yes I was in a big raiding guild for a good while. I was also in a very small guild also, so I've seen both sides of EQs forced play. It was just natural for the social groups to evolve into self sustaining groups as the game got more and more focused on raiding.
Actually this post makes the most sense. I played EQ from 2000-2007. I was there in the high point of EQ and I also saw it's downfall. What this poster points out is exactly correct. From my standpoint (Average Raider, in an Average Higher leveled guild) on Prexus pre merge, the social networking was destoryed due to Zerg Raiding fights. Every week seemed to be a new fight amongst Zergers and those Zergers often controlled most of the economy in the game. When PoP hit suddenly the game became not a game of leveling (In the expansion I think they're may've been 5 zones to grp in) but it became a game of raiding and flagging.
When the Zerg communities fought everyone felt their anger. Soon standards were set to join groups, not to say it existed before, however the only way to find a grp was for a player to have a certain amount of HP/AA/And when mana counter was added Mana for pure casters. Plus sometimes (rare occasions) x guild wouldn't grp with x guild thus forcing certain players out. The social networking that was used for groups as we saw up till Luclin was replaced with Politics in PoP. Once SOE showed that they were only interested in a certain kind of gamer IE the Zerg raiders the game lost its luster. LDoN showed a lot of promise but then a couple of Zergers took advantage of the system, and a couple complained of it's ease, SOE brought the Nerf Hammer. After that I consider that to be the proverbial nail on the coffin.
The biggest example of this is the Progression servers. Those were a joke. Instead of players being forced to relive some of the older zones, and that was forced, Team EQ, who are now top raiders, decided that it should be a race rather a timed progression. Once Kunark was unlocked within the first month players knew that the old social networking/ nostialgia they'd long for was over.
Where does WoW tie into all of this, simple it doesn't. WoW imo is a joke of a MMO, it's a MMO on crack, more along the lines of a Action/Adventure game with numbers rather an RPG. But Blizzard took a lot of cues from EQ, what they did was just eliminate the downtime EQ offered and now you have RPG made easy.
But to close this out yes, EQ 1 was and still is (in my eyes) the greates MMO of all time. It was the first, it wasn't perfect but hell I loved that game. If a classic server were around I'd be there.
The biggest example of this is the Progression servers. Those were a joke. Instead of players being forced to relive some of the older zones, and that was forced, Team EQ, who are now top raiders, decided that it should be a race rather a timed progression. Once Kunark was unlocked within the first month players knew that the old social networking/ nostialgia they'd long for was over.
Its important to note that players spent a little over two years interacting with the gaming community, then with SOE to get a Progression Server. Sadly, one of the things that irritated me was that SOE said in a thread regarding the raider issues, that they didn't anticipate Raiders wanting to play on the Progression Server.
So what took players years of convincing was now being squandered by Raiders who completely trivialized the intent and nature of the progression server. Granted, I don't have an issue with how people play as long as its within the rules, but the progression servers spirit was for old timers to reminisce.
The Mayong server was established by virtue of Raiders who are the predominant subscribers to EQ now. There wasn't years of community dialog or the ability for none-sub veterans to cast a vote. I understand SOE wanted to hear from their 'paying' audience, but it really hits me in the gut to think of those years we spent working with the community to get a Progression server.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Here is why the original EQ has not been topped for over 10 years..
???? ROFLMAO
EQ was my first foray into MMOs so it does have fond memories for me. I remember spawning for the first time in Antonica and not having a clue what to do, how to chat and which were players and which were NPCs.
I even tried to run from Antonica to Freeport at level 4 to meet a friend there. Did not have a clue at that time that the map was discontinuous and not seamless.
But "not been topped in 10 years." that made me laugh at the absurdity.
Yep. Social interaction is what makes a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER Online Role-Playing Game great. Interesting that people seem to have forgotten the first two words in the name of the genre... I wonder when First Person Shooters will move away from first person and just become shooters? Meh... on the bright side, FFXI has much of the same features that made EQ great by rewarding social interaction. It's the closest there is that is still alive. Even they have recently introduced several changes that have made it possible to solo, but it is still HUGELY beneficial to group instead of solo, so solo is normally reserved for Beastmasters (the one solo class) and other players that are looking for a party and need something to do while waiting. Because SE did so well capturing the social aspect of MMORPGs, I have high hopes that FFXIV will do things even better... but we'll see. Until then, I will continue to morn the tragic loss of the once great Everquest, and it's long lost allies, MASSIVELY and MULTIPLAYER....
this. I was raised in EQ. So no wonder ffxi fit like a glove to me. Great communities, great people, a lot of fun.
We could just drop the argument and say that EverQuest was great during the 1999-2001 era because of it's then unprecedented gameplay, 3D world, lack of angry teenagers on the net, and dominance over the MMO market. Street fighter 4 is better than street fighter 2; but people who played the original game back then have fond memories of it.
heh, spent about 10 years growing up in Japan (3 seperate tours), and the original street fighter played in Tokyo arcades was some of the most incredible pvp action I have ever witnessed. You are face to face and can rub in some grins after a massive combo round of perfection.
I'm about to go play super mario bros original, I never did beat that game,..... jesus I'm still a noob! XD
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
The biggest benefit I saw as an EQ Classic Cleric after 35 was being aware of my surroundings. 3rd person view, swinging around the camera always looking for roaming mobs, trains or pops.
Anyone else miss Classic Unrest or Mistmoore? At first, I thought TRAIN! was like BOAT! "Wow they have a train in Unrest.. that's kinda odd..." *A festering hag has put her foot in your ass* LOADING... PLEASE WAIT.
Yup... those were the days.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Honestly, EQ has nothing on old school UO. That was a real MMO that revolved around it's community. Compared to UO, EQ is nothing but a grind.
Yeah, but EQ offered the chance to play a game without having someone "In Flam Grav" and "Vas Flam" your ass every 10 seconds. FUN... yes, but when I played all the other Ultimas I didn't have a person break into my room going Kato on me just because I wanted the thrill.
Ultima Online was a PvP game that had uniqueness, EQ it was mainly PvE and had uniqueness, as so did Asheron's Call. Didn't play Meridian 59 though, always wanted too. I know it's still around, but no... I'm not paying money to play it without a trial first.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Comparing UO and EQ are like comparing apples and oranges. EQ = PVE, UO = PVP.
Saying a game isn't the best because it doesn't have meaningful PVP? How does that really make any sense? What game are you saying REALLY has meaningful PvP? Maybe Diablo 2 on hardcore mode, where you die and lose everything - even your character. Even then, no one really gained anything from it. Only lost. WoW doesn't have meaningful PvP. UO had PvP that what.. let people loot your corpse and take all your shit? EQ had that too. Not on all servers, but there was one.
People complaining about the power difference between raiders and non-raiders... that doesn't make any sense. Are you from a communist country? More time invested should bring more gains in return. If you were able to manage to obtain the same equipment from not raiding, why would people need to raid? Sure, WoW has a lot of 5-man, 10-man, and 25-man instances you can run, and the gear gap isn't THAT insanely different. But whats the difference between old school EQ and WoW? Old school EQ had NO instancing. Until, I think, the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion there was absolutely zero. Not everyone could get the same gear rather quickly. Also, in EQ raids took exponentially longer than they did in WoW, and other games really.
EQ was a great game in it's time. Albeit the "hardships" of the game, it was really a masterpiece. Every "masochistic" part of the game only further encouraged exploration, team work, and social interaction. There are many times I remember having to ask in /ooc "how do I get to zone x" and quickly getting a /tell or /ooc response guiding me to where I need to go. Try doing that in WoW, you get a bunch of people saying "OMG LOL NOOB" or "GO CHECK THOTTBOT ROOOOFL". The overall community in MMO's anymore has just taken a step down from what EQ was. Even the community now is so withered away, which is one of the reasons I really don't like to play much anymore. Sure, you can find that good group of people that don't have much drama throughout various games and servers... but not like you could in EQ.
The MMO market is evolving.. and grandfather EQ is slowly stepping into the grave. It will be missed, but dearly remembered by anyone who truly got the opportunity to get into the game and play it in it's prime.
Here is why the original EQ has not been topped for over 10 years..
???? ROFLMAO
EQ was my first foray into MMOs so it does have fond memories for me. I remember spawning for the first time in Antonica and not having a clue what to do, how to chat and which were players and which were NPCs.
I even tried to run from Antonica to Freeport at level 4 to meet a friend there. Did not have a clue at that time that the map was discontinuous and not seamless.
But "not been topped in 10 years." that made me laugh at the absurdity.
Well laugh all you want, it hasn't been topped for more than 10 years.
Originally posted by altairzq Well laugh all you want, it hasn't been topped for more than 10 years.
Sure it has. It was topped 10 years ago. I remember it fondly. Installed EQ, my first real MMO (not counting the other proto-MMOs)... Settled down on my first character killed a few things, tried crafting, got into BB, died, lost all my stuff. Couldn't get anyone to help with anything at all much less going to get all my stuff back.
Uninstalled. Went out, bought Asheron's Call. Player it for the next several years because from day one I found a helpful and friendly community fostered by an in-game system; monarchies. T'think, AC's still around, just like EQ is. :P
I'm not discarding your OPINION here at all. I'm merely saying.. just because it wasn't what you liked, doesn't mean it wasn't the top MMO of all time.
P.S. I'm not saying Asherons call is bad... I actually loved it. Very helpful people, good community, and good gameplay. I just liked EQ more. That's all
Originally posted by heartless Honestly, EQ has nothing on old school UO. That was a real MMO that revolved around it's community. Compared to UO, EQ is nothing but a grind.
Comments
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group.
I guess that depended on you as a player... I was very social in classic EQ, no matter what class I played (though I mained a cleric). I fully understood that having an extended social network beyond the guild to find groups, rezzes, TPs, whatever was essential, and so I developed and maintained one. From this basic mutual need for others came in game and RL friendships, some of which are still very much alive even today (I stopped playing around '93).
Yes, you could limit yourself to your guild, but 'needed'? Nah, not at all. I always played in smallish family type guilds (tried raiding, didnt like that), so it was important for me to build a friends list to quickly build PUGs based around players I knew and trusted when others in my guild that had the classes I needed wernt online.
I was referring to the "forced" aspect of the game. Anyone could network socially and that isn't an experience just limited to EQ nor was it essential. It was just something enjoyable to do and if you did not raid there was plenty of pugs to join and play. I still have many real life friends from my everquest days that were not part of my raid group. Socializing is something that happens in every mmo in my opinion.
The more everquest became a raid focused game, the more it pitting social groups against each other. The forced competition of the game did not foster healthy community as it pitted guilds/raids against each other. In order for someone to enjoy a specific encounter it meant everyone else on the server had to go without it for the next 7 days. I don't think it really needs explaining how hatred and animosity grew amongst many raid groups. Helping a guild that was competiting against you was not something the game encouraged. The play nice policy is testament to that.
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
While EQ did force people to 'sit around and say hi' it did so only on a limited basis. The only people you needed to talk to was your guild or raid group.
I guess that depended on you as a player... I was very social in classic EQ, no matter what class I played (though I mained a cleric). I fully understood that having an extended social network beyond the guild to find groups, rezzes, TPs, whatever was essential, and so I developed and maintained one. From this basic mutual need for others came in game and RL friendships, some of which are still very much alive even today (I stopped playing around '93).
Yes, you could limit yourself to your guild, but 'needed'? Nah, not at all. I always played in smallish family type guilds (tried raiding, didnt like that), so it was important for me to build a friends list to quickly build PUGs based around players I knew and trusted when others in my guild that had the classes I needed wernt online.
I was referring to the "forced" aspect of the game. Anyone could network socially and that isn't an experience just limited to EQ nor was it essential. It was just something enjoyable to do.
Actually, for me, as I have highlighted in red, it was essential to communicate outside of my guild if I wanted to play EQ the way I wanted (non raid, small guild, group based), and I wasnt alone.
In fact, up to raid, unless you were in a zerg guild, it was the only way. Most small guilds didnt have the resources to provide you with everything you needed all the time. Hence the essential extended network. Thats what gave EQ it's wider community. By the time we reached top level most of us knew each other at least by reputation, for better or worse.
You seem to have been a raider though, based on what you have posted, and maybe a member of a larger guild, so things would have been different for you, which means obviously your perspective on the game would have been different.
As for the raiding you describe, thats one of the reasons I didnt do it. All that nasty insular guild vs guild mentality was never my bag.
We could just drop the argument and say that EverQuest was great during the 1999-2001 era because of it's then unprecedented gameplay, 3D world, lack of angry teenagers on the net, and dominance over the MMO market.
Street fighter 4 is better than street fighter 2; but people who played the original game back then have fond memories of it.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
It's like your first gf was Angelina Jolie. And everybody tells you it's just the fond memories of the first love, and you keep saying no dammit she was really great.
. Thats what gave EQ it's wider community. By the time we reached top level most of us knew each other at least by reputation, for better or worse.
Very true. By the time i reached lvl 60 in kunark, it's not that i KNEW everyone personnally, but i had a good grasp of most of the guilds with members lvl 50+, knew the big names, grouped with a few of them.
In WOW there are so many people running around, so many guilds, and the gameplay forces you to chain quests to level, that i never found the time to really socialize like i did in EQ.
In fact socializing in WOW meant having a great group, and THEN we started having fun, and eventually creating bonds.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
The classes of Everquest:
Bard -mainly twisting instruments
Beastlord
Beserker
Cleric -mainly healing
Druid -not auto-attack based
Enchanter -not auto-attack based
Magician -not auto-attack based
Monk
Necromancer -not auto-attack based
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Shadow Knight
Warrior
Wizard -not auto-attack based
And very little variety, you're having a laugh. Any valid point you make is defeated by your own WoW fanboism and your own distorted wormholed hate of Everquest.
There are three types of people in this thread- the nostalgics, the objectives and the WoW fanbois. With the WoW fanbois ignoring all the objective views who appreciate Everquest was flawed, but jump on the nostalgics for kicks and giggles. That to me is very much trolling.
I would add a fourth.
The Realists.
We understand WHY classic EQ worked and how it achieved it's longevity and community, and why other modern games have failed.
This has nothing to do with nostalgia, it's just an observation of game design and mechanics.
You have to admit Everquest had flaws. It had an appeal to some of it's old game design for sure, but some of it was just pure masochistic. I played recently and you wouldn't believe what a simple thing like a regen out of combat has improved things. Sitting for 10 or so minutes to med up was silly.
I do agree with much of what you are saying. In the early days the game was far more social than it was forced gameplay. Outside of needing a group to do anything in the game, people chose to create social norms. Gathering in east common tunnels to trade (on my server it was greater faydark, evils could run to their own bank if they wanted something). Things like that and social networking was helpful, but not forced.
My point though was that the social aspect of the game was not forced. From your own personal choices it was essential, but in no way was it forced. A player could run around just playing with random strangers and do just fine until it came to raids and that is where the social part of everquest broke down.
What I am trying to say is that as the game became more raid focused which started prior to expansions, it did start to cannibalize the community aspect of the game. It many not have eliminated it, but it certained put a major hurt on it. Not to mention that other game mechanics killed other social aspects of the game: plane of knowledge portals and the bazaar for example both killed important parts of the games social interdependancies and communication.
Yes I was in a big raiding guild for a good while. I was also in a very small guild also, so I've seen both sides of EQs forced play. It was just natural for the social groups to evolve into self sustaining groups as the game got more and more focused on raiding.
I do agree with much of what you are saying. In the early days the game was far more social than it was forced gameplay. Outside of needing a group to do anything in the game, people chose to create social norms. Gathering in east common tunnels to trade (on my server it was greater faydark, evils could run to their own bank if they wanted something). Things like that and social networking was helpful, but not forced.
My point though was that the social aspect of the game was not forced. From your own personal choices it was essential, but in no way was it forced. A player could run around just playing with random strangers and do just fine until it came to raids and that is where the social part of everquest broke down.
What I am trying to say is that as the game became more raid focused which started prior to expansions, it did start to cannibalize the community aspect of the game. It many not have eliminated it, but it certained put a major hurt on it. Not to mention that other game mechanics killed other social aspects of the game: plane of knowledge portals and the bazaar for example both killed important parts of the games social interdependancies and communication.
Yes I was in a big raiding guild for a good while. I was also in a very small guild also, so I've seen both sides of EQs forced play. It was just natural for the social groups to evolve into self sustaining groups as the game got more and more focused on raiding.
Actually this post makes the most sense. I played EQ from 2000-2007. I was there in the high point of EQ and I also saw it's downfall. What this poster points out is exactly correct. From my standpoint (Average Raider, in an Average Higher leveled guild) on Prexus pre merge, the social networking was destoryed due to Zerg Raiding fights. Every week seemed to be a new fight amongst Zergers and those Zergers often controlled most of the economy in the game. When PoP hit suddenly the game became not a game of leveling (In the expansion I think they're may've been 5 zones to grp in) but it became a game of raiding and flagging.
When the Zerg communities fought everyone felt their anger. Soon standards were set to join groups, not to say it existed before, however the only way to find a grp was for a player to have a certain amount of HP/AA/And when mana counter was added Mana for pure casters. Plus sometimes (rare occasions) x guild wouldn't grp with x guild thus forcing certain players out. The social networking that was used for groups as we saw up till Luclin was replaced with Politics in PoP. Once SOE showed that they were only interested in a certain kind of gamer IE the Zerg raiders the game lost its luster. LDoN showed a lot of promise but then a couple of Zergers took advantage of the system, and a couple complained of it's ease, SOE brought the Nerf Hammer. After that I consider that to be the proverbial nail on the coffin.
The biggest example of this is the Progression servers. Those were a joke. Instead of players being forced to relive some of the older zones, and that was forced, Team EQ, who are now top raiders, decided that it should be a race rather a timed progression. Once Kunark was unlocked within the first month players knew that the old social networking/ nostialgia they'd long for was over.
Where does WoW tie into all of this, simple it doesn't. WoW imo is a joke of a MMO, it's a MMO on crack, more along the lines of a Action/Adventure game with numbers rather an RPG. But Blizzard took a lot of cues from EQ, what they did was just eliminate the downtime EQ offered and now you have RPG made easy.
But to close this out yes, EQ 1 was and still is (in my eyes) the greates MMO of all time. It was the first, it wasn't perfect but hell I loved that game. If a classic server were around I'd be there.
Its important to note that players spent a little over two years interacting with the gaming community, then with SOE to get a Progression Server. Sadly, one of the things that irritated me was that SOE said in a thread regarding the raider issues, that they didn't anticipate Raiders wanting to play on the Progression Server.
So what took players years of convincing was now being squandered by Raiders who completely trivialized the intent and nature of the progression server. Granted, I don't have an issue with how people play as long as its within the rules, but the progression servers spirit was for old timers to reminisce.
The Mayong server was established by virtue of Raiders who are the predominant subscribers to EQ now. There wasn't years of community dialog or the ability for none-sub veterans to cast a vote. I understand SOE wanted to hear from their 'paying' audience, but it really hits me in the gut to think of those years we spent working with the community to get a Progression server.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
All i have to say, is that I feel sorry for anybody who didn't play EQ in its prime. You missed out on the best gaming days of your life.
???? ROFLMAO
EQ was my first foray into MMOs so it does have fond memories for me. I remember spawning for the first time in Antonica and not having a clue what to do, how to chat and which were players and which were NPCs.
I even tried to run from Antonica to Freeport at level 4 to meet a friend there. Did not have a clue at that time that the map was discontinuous and not seamless.
But "not been topped in 10 years." that made me laugh at the absurdity.
Iskar Monks were badass. nuff said.
this. I was raised in EQ. So no wonder ffxi fit like a glove to me. Great communities, great people, a lot of fun.
nice post draco.
Asherons call was better then eq imo.
pvp was hardcore on darktide.
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Honestly, EQ has nothing on old school UO. That was a real MMO that revolved around it's community. Compared to UO, EQ is nothing but a grind.
heh, spent about 10 years growing up in Japan (3 seperate tours), and the original street fighter played in Tokyo arcades was some of the most incredible pvp action I have ever witnessed. You are face to face and can rub in some grins after a massive combo round of perfection.
I'm about to go play super mario bros original, I never did beat that game,..... jesus I'm still a noob! XD
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
The biggest benefit I saw as an EQ Classic Cleric after 35 was being aware of my surroundings. 3rd person view, swinging around the camera always looking for roaming mobs, trains or pops.
Anyone else miss Classic Unrest or Mistmoore? At first, I thought TRAIN! was like BOAT! "Wow they have a train in Unrest.. that's kinda odd..." *A festering hag has put her foot in your ass* LOADING... PLEASE WAIT.
Yup... those were the days.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Yeah, but EQ offered the chance to play a game without having someone "In Flam Grav" and "Vas Flam" your ass every 10 seconds. FUN... yes, but when I played all the other Ultimas I didn't have a person break into my room going Kato on me just because I wanted the thrill.
Ultima Online was a PvP game that had uniqueness, EQ it was mainly PvE and had uniqueness, as so did Asheron's Call. Didn't play Meridian 59 though, always wanted too. I know it's still around, but no... I'm not paying money to play it without a trial first.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
If you never played EQ, gtfo.
Comparing UO and EQ are like comparing apples and oranges. EQ = PVE, UO = PVP.
Saying a game isn't the best because it doesn't have meaningful PVP? How does that really make any sense? What game are you saying REALLY has meaningful PvP? Maybe Diablo 2 on hardcore mode, where you die and lose everything - even your character. Even then, no one really gained anything from it. Only lost. WoW doesn't have meaningful PvP. UO had PvP that what.. let people loot your corpse and take all your shit? EQ had that too. Not on all servers, but there was one.
People complaining about the power difference between raiders and non-raiders... that doesn't make any sense. Are you from a communist country? More time invested should bring more gains in return. If you were able to manage to obtain the same equipment from not raiding, why would people need to raid? Sure, WoW has a lot of 5-man, 10-man, and 25-man instances you can run, and the gear gap isn't THAT insanely different. But whats the difference between old school EQ and WoW? Old school EQ had NO instancing. Until, I think, the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion there was absolutely zero. Not everyone could get the same gear rather quickly. Also, in EQ raids took exponentially longer than they did in WoW, and other games really.
EQ was a great game in it's time. Albeit the "hardships" of the game, it was really a masterpiece. Every "masochistic" part of the game only further encouraged exploration, team work, and social interaction. There are many times I remember having to ask in /ooc "how do I get to zone x" and quickly getting a /tell or /ooc response guiding me to where I need to go. Try doing that in WoW, you get a bunch of people saying "OMG LOL NOOB" or "GO CHECK THOTTBOT ROOOOFL". The overall community in MMO's anymore has just taken a step down from what EQ was. Even the community now is so withered away, which is one of the reasons I really don't like to play much anymore. Sure, you can find that good group of people that don't have much drama throughout various games and servers... but not like you could in EQ.
The MMO market is evolving.. and grandfather EQ is slowly stepping into the grave. It will be missed, but dearly remembered by anyone who truly got the opportunity to get into the game and play it in it's prime.
???? ROFLMAO
EQ was my first foray into MMOs so it does have fond memories for me. I remember spawning for the first time in Antonica and not having a clue what to do, how to chat and which were players and which were NPCs.
I even tried to run from Antonica to Freeport at level 4 to meet a friend there. Did not have a clue at that time that the map was discontinuous and not seamless.
But "not been topped in 10 years." that made me laugh at the absurdity.
Well laugh all you want, it hasn't been topped for more than 10 years.
Sure it has. It was topped 10 years ago. I remember it fondly. Installed EQ, my first real MMO (not counting the other proto-MMOs)... Settled down on my first character killed a few things, tried crafting, got into BB, died, lost all my stuff.
Couldn't get anyone to help with anything at all much less going to get all my stuff back.
Uninstalled. Went out, bought Asheron's Call. Player it for the next several years because from day one I found a helpful and friendly community fostered by an in-game system; monarchies. T'think, AC's still around, just like EQ is. :P
Not just another pretty color.
And that means it topped EQ overall, how? Oh, it doesn't? Weird... very weird..
And you acknowledge other people's opinions how? Oh, you don't. Typical, oh so typical.
Not just another pretty color.
I'm not discarding your OPINION here at all. I'm merely saying.. just because it wasn't what you liked, doesn't mean it wasn't the top MMO of all time.
P.S. I'm not saying Asherons call is bad... I actually loved it. Very helpful people, good community, and good gameplay. I just liked EQ more. That's all
Why did all the UO fans go to EQ then?