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Archery still has a role after magic.
trashburnin
Member Posts: 223
Some people think archery is useless after you start getting magic but this is not true. At long distances archery can be very useful to soften up targets without burning through a bunch of reagents. When an enemy is a far distance away, it seems very viable to lob arrows at them as they approach. Arrows aren't so easily dodged at long distances as magic is. It is also the cheapest projectile and the fastest combat skill to train. granted archery becomes more situational use after you get magic just like melee does but it is still very useful, especially for killing difficult mobs as reagents are very expensive.
There are a lot of misconceptions about Darkfall from people who do not fully understand the game and why things are the way they are. It is not so easily apparent what the Darkfall Devs had in mind when designing certain aspects of the game, such as why it takes such a long time to craft arrows or why you can't loot a entire corpse instantly, what at first on the surface looks like bad game design, is actually intended and quite brilliant design. [Mod Edit] You will not really understand the nature of Darkfall untill you try it for yourself for a good lenght of time. In the end it may be that Darkfall is too harsh of an environment for you and in that case Darkfall wasn't for you. As for myself and many others, Darkfall is the greatest pvp mmorpg i've played since Ultima Online.
[Mod Edit]
Comments
the censorship on these forums is sickening to me.
Strange that so many left the game after playing it, victim of the "you don't understand the game!"
Stop blaming the players. People left because they found the game lacking. If it works for you, great. But people don't leave good games in droves. There are real reasons why people left DFO, whether you acknowledge them or not.
Oh look, its you... Do you lurk on these forums 24/7 or something? it appears that you must have a very enriching life to love arguing against a game you don't even play as much as you do.
yes people do leave good games in droves when they are niche games and most people are just on a WoW vacation when they see a new mmorpg comming out. Darkfall takes much more player skill than the vast majority of games and many people simply cannot hang or handle the risk vs reward ruleset. I can't get any of my RL friends to play, at least for them, they admit that the game moves a little too fast for them and others admit that the full loot rules are too antagonizing for them rather than blaming the game itself. It is much easier to blame the game than to blame yourself, that is one of the things I learned when trying to master some RTS titles.
yes darkfall had some problems at release as does every game, I'll admit it was pretty harsh and I can understand why so many would leave but things have changed quite a bit since then. It just a shame so many have that bad impression of Darkfall and won't give it a second try even after all the changes. Darkfall is shaping up nicely and there are people who still hate on it based on what was only present in the beta.
Oh look, its you... Do you lurk on these forums 24/7 or something? it appears that you must have a very enriching life to love arguing against a game you don't even play as much as you do.
yes people do leave good games in droves when they are niche games and most people are just on a WoW vacation when they see a new mmorpg comming out. Darkfall takes much more player skill than the vast majority of games and many people simply cannot hang or handle the risk vs reward ruleset. I can't get any of my RL friends to play, at least for them, they admit that the game moves a little too fast for them and others admit that the full loot rules are too antagonizing for them rather than blaming the game itself. It is much easier to blame the game than to blame yourself, that is one of the things I learned when trying to master some RTS titles.
yes darkfall had some problems at release as does every game, I'll admit it was pretty harsh and I can understand why so many would leave but things have changed quite a bit since then. It just a shame so many have that bad impression of Darkfall and won't give it a second try even after all the changes. Darkfall is shaping up nicely and there are people who still hate on it based on what was only present in the beta.
For some that left the game, it wasn't necessarily the shape of the game at launch that drove them away... it was Aventurine. So, there are a number of players that will not be coming back until that aspect of the game changes as well.
Like it or not, some MMO players feel that there are enough MMO choices out that they don't have to suffer though what they consider to be bad customer service. For some, it's not a big deal... for others it is.
Just mentioning that there is another aspect to why some players left DarkFall... and it had very little to do with the game itself.
I decided to make an archer in DF after playing a little I started leveling up my melee for those OH shit situations when you just cant get away.
It's worked out well, im by no means an awesome hardcore pvper but I hold my own and have a great time when I play and that's all that matters to me.
People that say it isn't viable make no sense, I've killed a good amount of players with FPS skills and archery alone and even in melee im ok. I have no need for high magic skills with my character.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Alot of the people in my old clan, left the game for the same reason I did initially. Alot of players felt slighted, for not being able to transfer to NA. They made it sound hassle free. No problem... sure you can transfer when the time comes. Then without any warning, and at the last minute said..... oh btw, you'll have to buy the client again to start on NA. Or you can wait months for a undetermined transfer fee. Nowhere, did they ever let on, in the slightest, thier plans.
I took a 1.5 month break myself. Then resubbed. I had to get over my initial reaction, which was "Hell No".
I still wouldn't put it past them, if they charge half the purchase price, up to the full price, just for a transfer.
They claimed that they had no choice, and since a different company would be running the NA server, a repurchase was needed. After many people researched, they found that it was just AV with a slightly different name, trying to bank on the same product twice. This does not sit at all well, with many people.
That's is one of the major reasons for the mass exodus, from DFO. Claim it's not true and troll/fanboi all you want, but many left for this reason.
money issues is one of the dumbest reasons to quit. For the number of hours of, and level of enjoyment that can be gleaned from the game, $50 and $13 a month is nothing. I spend at least 20$ everytime I go to a bar. WoW charges you 30$ to change your race and 25 to transfer server, thats 55$ if the friend you want to play with is the opposing faction. If you didn't have to buy the NA client, a NA server woudln't exist, this isn't a megacorporation like blizz with loads of money to throw around, really we should feel fortunate we have an NA server at all so soon. They didn't have a choice, it is true, and without customers buying the client again, the NA publisher must have not been willing to do it. People act as if AV had planned this all along when the truth could very well be that the players knew what was going to happen just shortly after AV themselves did. There are so many moronic assumptions about the Devs and the game its ridiculous.
money issues is one of the dumbest reasons to quit. For the number of hours of, and level of enjoyment that can be gleaned from the game, $50 and $13 a month is nothing. I spend at least 20$ everytime I go to a bar. WoW charges you 30$ to change your race and 25 to transfer server, thats 55$ if the friend you want to play with is the opposing faction. If you didn't have to buy the NA client, a NA server woudln't exist, this isn't a megacorporation like blizz with loads of money to throw around, really we should feel fortunate we have an NA server at all so soon. They didn't have a choice, it is true, and without customers buying the client again, the NA publisher must have not been willing to do it. People act as if AV had planned this all along when the truth could very well be that the players knew what was going to happen just shortly after AV themselves did. There are so many moronic assumptions about the Devs and the game its ridiculous.
You do realize that the NA publisher of DarkFall is Aventurine... right?
For the vast majority that left for the reasons detailed above, it had very little to do with the actual money itself. It was the idea of giving that money to a company who behaved in the manner that Aventurine did. In other words... ethics.
For some business ethics is no big deal and they don't let it bother them. For others, it is a big deal. Just like there is a sizeable group of players who won't be buying any games from SoE, or EA, or Funcom, or Turbine, etc. Well, the newest member of that group is Aventurine.
Some players felt they were screwed over by Aventurine. They responded by not giving any further money to Aventurine. Whether you agree with that response or not. Nobody can deny that a noticeable amount of players chose that course of action.
Exactly this. For some, this is a lame reason (anyone remember SEANMCD?), but for people who pay their own bills and know the value of money, this is a deal-breaker. In fact, if a friend hadn't bought the game in the first place, I would never have played DFO. I simply could not trust my CC information to that primitive "e-commerce" site. A friend boldly did, so I got to play it.
And I wasn't the only one. Of my whole gaming group, only 1 actually bought the game after they saw the e-commerce and the state of the product Aventurine was selling. Even after playing it, only a handful decided they wanted to give it a real shot. The rest was simply turned down by the game from the get-go. I guess these gaming veterans were not hardcore enough.
Since then, I have rationalized all this. I'll dismiss that as "new company screwing up" and not as foul play. What keeps me away from DFO now is simply the game itself.
Exactly this.
the NA publisher is Aventurine? OH REALLY?!
http://www.neoseeker.com/Companies/profiles/audiovisual_enterprises/
http://www.neoseeker.com/Games/Products/PC/darkfall_online/
gee, I thought it was audiovidisal enterprises, I guess its a conspiracy by the evil Aventurine right? They spend 8 years developing a game all to scam you out of your money.
I know you regular Darkfall haters like to make stuff up but this one is easily disprovable. Where are you getting that information from? encylopedia dramatica? (LOL)
xyzyax you should have tried to play it safe like strixmaxima and said something that couldn't be proven when making stuff up about why Darkfall failed. Darkfall failed because all of strixmaximas friends didn't get the game.
Seriously, you guys post in every single Darkfall thread with your two cents about why Darkfall is a bad game or why Darkfall has is failing/failed. You obviously have an unhealthy agenda against the game and thus lack credibility due to your obvious bias. Darkfall is not for you, fine, move on, we don't need to hear your anti-darkfal broken record player anymore. Darkfall is fine for the thousands of people who play it and if people are too afraid to buy the game for some silly reason, well thats a very small minority of people who probably wouldn't last long in Darkfall anyway. I pity them really.
We are talking about Archerys role, not why you think Darkfall has failed/failing btw, try to stay on topic if you want to add your two-cents.
And just who exactly are you to tell someone how to post on an open forum?
Just another user. So, chill.
Just wanted to pop in and say...
This thread is a fantastic study of how no matter what reason you give to a rabid fan of DF, they will always spin it into something else.
"I was turned off by the unethical way AV has handled the game and was not willing to give them my money" gets turned into "money was an issue for you"
"The game isn't what AV claimed it would be, for months prior to release. I'm not interested in what they delivered" is spun into "You were expecting another WoW-like themepark and can't handle a real hardcore MMO"
"The game simply doesnt' appeal to me" is spun into "the game is too difficult for you so you're afraid to play it".
Just about any complaint about AV or Tasos is inevitably spun into "bashing" or "hating" or "trolling" Darkfall. You can even say something like "I like the ideas behind Darkfall. The problem is I really do not like Aventurine's business ethics; I don't trust them. And, I don't trust a word Tasos says". Invariably, a rabid fan will respond with "If you hate Darkfall so much why don't you go play your kiddie themepark game like WoW since your'e obviously too much of a carebear to play a hardcore MMO like Darkfall"
I have to wonder sometimes, "Who the hell are they talking to? What conversation are they having?"
I mean... trashburnin... Are you seriously *so* closed-minded that you can't fathom the idea that people might - gasp - simply not *like* the game? Or, that people might like the game but don't trust AV or Tasos enough to give them their money?
Yes or No question, so please answer it directly:
Is everything so black and white in your world that everything breaks down into:
A) People who like Darkfall, or...
I have a very difficult time believing you really have such a narrow world-view. But if you do... take the blinders off, guy.
There's a whole big world out there with millions of people with almost as many reasons why they may or may not decide to buy, play, watch, read, eat, drink or listen to something. And every one of their reasons is just as valid and just as real as yours.
As an aside... I know the Publisher for Europe is Audio Visual. Hadn't AV themselves noted that they needed to find a different Publisher for the US and that was the hold up? I remember there were some lively threads discussing how they made a big deal about having to work things out with a new US publisher, but then never announced who it was... Can someone fill in the details for me here?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Exactly this.
the NA publisher is Aventurine? OH REALLY?!
http://www.neoseeker.com/Companies/profiles/audiovisual_enterprises/
http://www.neoseeker.com/Games/Products/PC/darkfall_online/
gee, I thought it was audiovidisal enterprises, I guess its a conspiracy by the evil Aventurine right? They spend 8 years developing a game all to scam you out of your money.
I know you regular Darkfall haters like to make stuff up but this one is easily disprovable. Where are you getting that information from? encylopedia dramatica? (LOL)
xyzyax you should have tried to play it safe like strixmaxima and said something that couldn't be proven when making stuff up about why Darkfall failed. Darkfall failed because all of strixmaximas friends didn't get the game.
Seriously, you guys post in every single Darkfall thread with your two cents about why Darkfall is a bad game or why Darkfall has is failing/failed. You obviously have an unhealthy agenda against the game and thus lack credibility due to your obvious bias. Darkfall is not for you, fine, move on, we don't need to hear your anti-darkfal broken record player anymore. Darkfall is fine for the thousands of people who play it and if people are too afraid to buy the game for some silly reason, well thats a very small minority of people who probably wouldn't last long in Darkfall anyway. I pity them really.
We are talking about Archerys role, not why you think Darkfall has failed/failing btw, try to stay on topic if you want to add your two-cents.
Here ya go. I like how they acted like the had to find a publisher. Their plans go as far back as 2008, they just didn't inform us. Sure AV and AVE aren't the same, but they are under the same umbrella. "Audio Visual Enterprises SA is a leading home entertainment company located in Athens, Greece. Audio Visual is a group of companies which encompasses a large range in the field of entertainment"
Read for yourself, from 2008! (you knew when we knew.) Riiiiight.
http://df.warcry.com/news/view/87899-Darkfall-European-Release-Date-Announced
Audiovisual Enterprises, was onboard this project before release, and published the EU launch.
Here is more from March 2009 stating that AudioVisual was the publisher from the EU launch. And also the NA launch. You will have paid them twice for the game, to play on NA server.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1553541/darkfall_online_review.html
(my appologies to the OP, one person derailed your tread, and thats all it takes for the fanbois to decide they need to defend thier game, like its thier little sister. And so, the back and forth began.)
The problem with melee and archery currently is that its a disadvantage to magic in most cases. This is due to the fact that the combat balance between aspects of the game is not finished yet, but also due to the fact that magic as a combat entity has alot more "value" then any other entity currently.
it isn't that archery is worthless its that it has less value, and thus becomes a secondary skill. Of course its all situation, as the value of archery and melee is much higher in smaller scale fights. In large scale fights they are reduced far to much however.
Exactly this.
the NA publisher is Aventurine? OH REALLY?!
http://www.neoseeker.com/Companies/profiles/audiovisual_enterprises/
http://www.neoseeker.com/Games/Products/PC/darkfall_online/
gee, I thought it was audiovidisal enterprises, I guess its a conspiracy by the evil Aventurine right? They spend 8 years developing a game all to scam you out of your money.
I know you regular Darkfall haters like to make stuff up but this one is easily disprovable. Where are you getting that information from? encylopedia dramatica? (LOL)
xyzyax you should have tried to play it safe like strixmaxima and said something that couldn't be proven when making stuff up about why Darkfall failed. Darkfall failed because all of strixmaximas friends didn't get the game.
Seriously, you guys post in every single Darkfall thread with your two cents about why Darkfall is a bad game or why Darkfall has is failing/failed. You obviously have an unhealthy agenda against the game and thus lack credibility due to your obvious bias. Darkfall is not for you, fine, move on, we don't need to hear your anti-darkfal broken record player anymore. Darkfall is fine for the thousands of people who play it and if people are too afraid to buy the game for some silly reason, well thats a very small minority of people who probably wouldn't last long in Darkfall anyway. I pity them really.
We are talking about Archerys role, not why you think Darkfall has failed/failing btw, try to stay on topic if you want to add your two-cents.
Yeah, really.
"NA Publisher
Who is the NA publisher?
The publishing of Darkfall in N. America and in Europe is managed by Aventurine SA with support from and through several partners. The commercial rights to the two territories belong to two different business interests. For all intended purposes Aventurine is self-publishing in N. America with partner and external investor support. The commercial rights to Darkfall for Europe belong to Audio Visual Enterprises which is not involved with the N. American release.
Most game companies using the subscription model, separate their territories especially when infrastructure isn't shared, but in most cases even when it is shared and especially when there are separate business and legal issues involved. In Darkfall's case, a N. American server may not have been possible otherwise. Publishing an MMORPG of this size in a territory such as N. America is a very expensive proposition."
[Full Article]
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Thanks for saving me the trouble, Respit.
Not that it'll make any difference for him.
Thats not a problem it is balanced towards skill requirements and regents costs. The guys who can burn the biggest holes gone through more effort to collect their skills, time wise and cost wise. Plus it remains still expensive to make use of the skills and having you carry the expensive reagetnts with you makes it risky.
Expensiver then melee and archery to gain, expensiv and risky to use should get more reward.
Thous using higher level magic nukes you should nbe able to make bigger holes. Balanced.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Thats not a problem it is balanced towards skill requirements and regents costs. The guys who can burn the biggest holes gone through more effort to collect their skills, time wise and cost wise. Plus it remains still expensive to make use of the skills and having you carry the expensive reagetnts with you makes it risky.
Expensiver then melee and archery to gain, expensiv and risky to use should get more reward.
Thous using higher level magic nukes you should nbe able to make bigger holes. Balanced.
Your ideas are inherently flawed and will only lead to the demise of the game.
First, cost is meaningless in reguards to balance, either cost in terms of time it takes to obtain, or cost relating to items/gear or other things. Saying that its balanced because it takes time to gain something, is a short sighted excuse, which actually creates game inbalance, because the player with more time gains a direct advantage related to combat. A player who has more time should have indirect advantages, ie more resources, better gear, able to recover from loss easier, and things that give him a moderated advantage, but not enough to be unbalancing. however that player should not recieve a direct advantage in terms of raw combat power and damage output simply because that person is willing to invest more time into a game. It has to be a moderated advantage, and the fact that EU and NA both to date have had unmoderated advantages for gamers with lots of time has a direct impact on the health of the game. Many people jumped ship due to the grind simply because they were not willing to keep up with the pace required to maintain a reasonably competitive playing field.
In reguards to resource cost, the only way to balance this is in terms of realitive value to what the player is carrying, not what he has used. If a player is running around with 200 of each reagent, full set of bone armor, mount, potions , food etc hes still well below what it would cost to run around in a set of full plate for a melee intensive charecter by far. Archery isnt much better but more comparable to magic, a high level transmuted bow will run you into thousands of gold just to create one.
Stating that magic is balanced beacuse its time consuming or requires a higher level of investment in terms of resources, while providing a great disparity in actual "value" in combat only means that most everyone will be mages as we are seeing now. Previously only the gamer who invested countless hours could obtain multiple magic schools and max intensity in a reasonable time frame. This led to the arms race mentality in which most players where frankly worthless due to the inability to deal damage on a comparable scale. With the patch i believe its been balanced so that time is less of a factor, but still will give those who chose to invest time more reward,but not nearly unlimited reward as was seen pre-patch or back in april & may on the EU server.
Ultimately this problem occured because AV is frankly had to much of a spread in damage output between new players and developed players. having 900% potential increase in damage is never a good thing, and only leads to major issues. There should have been advantages for being a developed charecter, but they should not have been as great as they are.
Aedn, you are talking to Darth. Hence, what you just so well articulated was wasted on him. It's like Stephen Hawking trying to explaining why Black holes aren't really black to a 2 year old. www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/Title,21283,en.html
Great post though. I know many people will appreciate it. Just not those who really need to.