as far as I knew GW didnt actually control any of the money decisions anymore anyways, the group of investors that came in with there money are now controlling how its spent, is this guy gonna come in, and say no you cant do that, and watch the investors leave ?
As far as I knew, they were only putting in a little at a time and controlling what was spent, if this guy comes in he wont have anything to spend, or control, as the investors literally only put in what they need and when they need it.
I have the feeling that even if they did bring this guy in, he would have little to no control over the money or how it would be spent.
It is within his power to lay everyone off and suspend development, so as not to incur any more liabilities until the court case is settled and the game's progress and viability is determined.
Or he could continue things as they are. While the inflow of capital is supposedly gated by the investors, I believe the court gives him sole right to spend that as he sees fit. This too could upset the cart, as the investors may decide they don't want to give up the control.
No matter what on that side, he could very well replace the entire executive management team (e.g., Jenson).
Many outcomes are possible, but we won't know which until this plays out some more.
well ten ton hammer have said what we have said as well, www.tentonhammer.com/node/74326 so seems pretty official to me now. How long until mmorpg.com staff report this officially.
as far as I knew GW didnt actually control any of the money decisions anymore anyways, the group of investors that came in with there money are now controlling how its spent, is this guy gonna come in, and say no you cant do that, and watch the investors leave ? As far as I knew, they were only putting in a little at a time and controlling what was spent, if this guy comes in he wont have anything to spend, or control, as the investors literally only put in what they need and when they need it. I have the feeling that even if they did bring this guy in, he would have little to no control over the money or how it would be spent.
Just because a group of investors gives you some money, does not mean get you get to do with it what you please or they please, especially if you have a garnishment or a judgment out against Whiting, CME, MMOGULS, etc. CME owes some serious cash to many.
Oddly, CME recently changed banks -- maybe in an effort for dodging payment on some of the old debts owed? Yeah, tell the courts we still bank with Wells Fargo, but have the investors deposit it somewhere else.
First off a CME share is worth less than 2cents and I doubt a stock certificate from Gary Whiting is going to settle this court case over $2.5 milllion! Secondly the lawsuit includes CME so it does very much effect CME, or what's left of that sad sorry company. Yellow, the blind wraith believer posts are getting old, everytime you post I see this in my mind,
That's it, that sums up every single post that Yellowperil has ever made in these forums. Yellow if you have any evidence that MMOGUL's and CME are seperate please post the links. I'll post mine first,
GARVICK PROPERTIES LLC - owned by Whiting and the company CME shareholders write a cheque to in order to purchase CME shares.
Cheyene Mountain Entertainment - Failed MMORPG company owned by Gary Whiting and does work for MMOGULs. Until recently was situated in the same building as MMOGULs.
MMOGULS inc - Whiting owned pyramid scheme that sells the product CME was making, also has paid CME to produce artwork for them.
The Now Corporation - Whiting company that is the ultimate owner of many Whiting companies including his many shell corporations.
Itz Your Mall inc - A Whiting company being run by Keith Deering who is also on the board of directors at CME. This company has a contract with both CME and MMOGULs. To sell SGW through itz your mall to MMOGULs.
If you either don't understand that or don't want to then you can hear it from the horses mouth,MMOGULS podcast with Gary Whiting - Gary Whiting states himself in no uncertain terms that his company CME will be selling SGW to customers of his company MMOGULs in an exclusive deal in order to perpetuate his pyramid scheme.
If you don't get it then you need your head testing, if you have evidence to the contrary then link it before you start off on the blind faith dogma of team Whiting,
Thankyou,
Agricola
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It would be interesting to see the full script of that document, I noticed quite a few pages were missing 10 on one side and ?? many on the other.
I am sure it will be interesting to see the outcome of the case, but in most cases that people are trying to extract something or get something, they always aim a lot higher on the payout. But as I read the cut down script I see quite a few things that are relevant to the case on both sides.
It seems from GW's point of view that MMOGULS has been tried once already to be taken away from him, I dont know the legal stuff, but just because you invested in something doesn't make you the owner of it. And I think this court case really is about taking MMOGULS away from GW, using references to what he has done in the other companies as reference to why he should not run it anymore. This does not mean he will lose his company, but he would not be the have the control of how money is used or spent anymore, I dont know if this could then be used to oust him, but the company is registered in his name and belongs to him.
As to getting anything out of CME, i cant see this being the case, from what I understood from the forum posts is that most of the accusations are aimed at him personally. Using reference to his other companies as he has property or stock that could be liquidated to pay back investors money owed. As this case is based on MMOGULS, someone could come in and take control of that, but as for someone coming in to take control of CME, when the case is primarily MMOGULS (that's what they invested there money in) I cant see why someone would come in and control CME, because of a dispute with MMOGULS.
As I see it saying someone is not good enough to run one company your invested in, doesnt give you any real say how he runs another company, all you can do anything about is the company you have invested in, and in this case this is MMOGULS. Correct me if I am wrong, but it doesnt seem possible to force control over 6-7 other companies or subsiduries of a company, when the argument is only against one company, even if this guy runs them all. But hey I know crap all about the US legal system so it would be nice if someone could explain how this could happen.
While it's not so easy to do, it can be done. See some new uploaded documents here. The first one is Robert McKell's reply to memorandum of points. Fromt here, you can follow the money and see that his investor deal is tied to both MMOGULS and CME. Because the two companies are tethered together for the success of MMOGULS, it is in the plaintiff’s best interest to control 1) the company the money goes into (Garvick), 2) the company that is producing the moneymaker (CME) and 3) the company that is going to make continued money thereafter (MMOGULS). The McKell’s were promised revenue from both CME & MMOGULS in addition to CME Stock.
Therefore, to protect his investment, he needs to protect all three companies.
On the tail end of that upload is the McKell response to the previously filed documents on the 9th? And the Whiting response to the McKell’s arguments.
I am going to update the other cases, once I find that thread. Of interest is the Ann Colson case, which is ripe with long torrid affairs, polygamy with up to 5 wives! And the final Judgment in the case. Stay tuned!
Interesting read, problem now seems to be that they need proof, not hearsay.
I see they also take into consideration that they are investors only, and have no signed documents of any control of the money.
I really don't see this going very far. If there is no proof for the court to see then the court case will fail, also other possible things may turn up that have a big impact on the court, Jenson is a big one, and if its proven that money wasnt released by him then GW could easily say the money that was diverted was for the health of the company and not fraud. Again I am sure this is all gonna be interesting, but if they are taking on whiting with just hearsay and no proof, I cant see them getting much out of the court case, using statements about how badly he runs other companies may just fall of deaf ears, I noticed they are trying to tie up both MMOGULS and CME in the court case, but again I think its gonna be hard to pull the court case off, to many blanks need to be filled in, and if there is no proof (physical) then its all just going to be hearsay. It doesnt matter if GW is guilty or not, without the proof no judge is going to listen to hearsay and pass judgement someone is guilty just from that.
What would be interesting is that if this goes badly for the prosecution, could the defence file against them in a counter sue or whatever.??????
But there is a big difference: for whatever reason, GW was outmaneuvered in Utah, and CME/MMOGULS have already been placed in receivership.
The uphill climb is now on GW, not the plaintiffs, to either get the Utah order blocked by AZ, or to appeal in Utah. Based on my understanding now of "full faith and credit", I think the first is very hard since I don't think he can argue the merits of the case in AZ. This is why he is trying to make a "fraud upon the court" argument, perhaps opening the door to arguing the facts.
What the receivership means for CME, assuming it is enforced, is as yet unknown. But it takes full control away from GW/Jenson/Hensley, for better or for worse.
Hmm, if AZ does get in the middle of this by blocking it, it may be headed for the Federal courts.
Something tells me that someone as wealthy as the plantiffs that can afford good lawyers aren't going to be filing frivolous lawsuits when they have no proof. I'm certain they've spoken with a good law firm before filing and asked them if there's enough for a successful prosecution.
Besides one of the points that will be made in court is no doubt the fact that Gary used money that was meant to pay MMOGULs members their cut of their downlines and used it to pay employees at CME. That's how he ended the first round of employees not being paid. Do the oplantiffs have proof? Well there are plenty of ex MMOGULs at Mondelis that would no doubt like to plunge the knife into Gary's back after he did the same to them. I know there are people there that know he mismanaged funds and if asked to testify in court they'll have to spill the beans or commit purgery. As the agreement they signed with Gary before leaving holds no water in court.
So is there proof? Yes there's plenty. Could the plantiffs be prosecuted for filing a frivolous lawsuit against Whiting? Well Whiting has to come out of this case smelling of roses first, then he has to prove there was nothing to the case which he can't do because he has grossly mismanaged every single company he has ever run!
Gary used MMOGULs money to support CME at the cost of MMOGULs customers not getting their profits promised by MMOGULs. So CME is tied up in this case, not that CME is worth a rat's backside anyway! But if Gary falls so do all of the crumby companies that he runs. Whiting loses this case and how exactly does he run MMOGULs? I don't see Gary paying what he owes to MMOGULs investors and customers, do you? So somethings gotta give. He loses control of MMOGULs and CME becomes even more of a mill stone around his neck. He has no way to support the hand full of losers working there right now, let alone develop, test and launch his shitty Stargate FPS which still hasn't been officialy announced. CME is dead weight anyhow, he just keeps the facade going because he's making a mint from MMOGULs. Once he either loses control of MMOGULs or it's just crippled by this lawsuit, CME becomes a pointless expense.
But yeah maybe in yellowperil world he wins everything and sues them for millions for filing a bologne lawsuit? ... NOT!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I think your optimisim is sorely misplaced. The issue here appear to be that a Utah court ALREADY ruled on this. So the first question (as I understand it) before the AZ court is NOT to decide the facts of the case... the Utah Court in theory was already supposed to have done that.... it's to decide whether there is grounds to set aside the Utah Court's ruling. Thanks to the "Full Faith and Credit" clause in the Constitution (I'm not a lawyer but I understand a little bit about how these things work)..... the AZ Courts job is NOT to decide whether the Utah Courts ruling was correct or not....but to decide on procedural grounds whether there was a valid reason that Utah should not have ruled on the case, in the first place.
For instance, if you live Maine and your sued by a business based in Connecticut but the person who sued you filed the suit in California and got that Court to issue a ruling.... you could (legitimately) ask a Maine Court to set aside the ruling on the grounds that California had no proper standing to decide the case in the first place. In this case, it sounds like GW is claiming that the plantiffs perpetrated fraud against the Utah Courts. If that's the case, the onus is on GW to prove not just that the plantiffs were wrong...but that they fabricated evidence to the Utah Court....and that the evidence was of sufficient weight that the Utah Court would have decided differently had it not been presented. IF GW can proove that... THEN the AZ Court could set aside the existing ruling.... and at that point, and only that point...the plantifs would get the opportunity to file suit against GW in AZ...and then the AZ Court could examine the facts of the case.
Note that although the suit is against GW..... since CME is a privately owned company...and GW (apparently) owns 51% or more of the stock in that company.... the Court definately can appoint a reciever to protect the plantiffs financial interest in that asset. The reciever can pretty much decide to do anything that the owner might be able to do.
Furthermore, this suit is only one of many of CME's and GW's legal troubles at the moment. The big question is whether CME can be forced into bankruptcy. If enough of it's creditors get claims against it....CME could be forced into bankruptcy (which IMO would probably be the best thing for most people in this situation.... including fans of the game). In that case the bankruptcy court would appoint a reciever who's priorties would be to pay-off the companies debts in the following order:
1) Any taxes owed (I've heard CME owe's alot)
2) Any back wages owed
3) Any debts owed to vendors
4) any debts owed to creditors/investors.
The appointed reciever would basicaly make a decision as to how best to achieve those goals.....which would basicaly boil down to either a) Closing up shop and liquidating any of CME's tangible assets OR b) Putting together some sort of structured plan to reduce the companies unneccesary overhead and start getting it profitable.
EITHER of those situations sound like they would be vastly preferable to the kinds of shenanigans and mayhem that has existed to date. At least there would be some documented level of responsibility and accountability.
Furthermore, some sort of final legal resolution of ALL these outstanding legal claims is about the ONLY chance CME would have to get much serious investment at this point. Most serious investors (at least savvy ones) RUN not walk from companies that have this level of outstanding legal issues. I'm absolutely shocked CME was able to get any additional investment under these circumstances.
As an investor, there is pretty much zero protection for any funds that you put in under these circumstances..... and if it does come down to bankruptcy....your pretty much the last one in line to get paid off.
Grumpy thanks for the heads up, I havent a clue to the US law system, but overall if someone steps in now and stops the current investors putting in money on the as needed basis, the court ruling someone to come in could actually harm this, so its not in the best interest of the investors (those that have put more money in than the amount that is being argued about).
My guess is that MMOGULS is all but taken over and will be a loss to GW, as to CME again the court may decide to leave things as they are with the current investors running the show, as they are literally about to put a product to market, which would generate some revenue stream, anyone coming in and stopping this would actually harm more people (other investors and such) just to get a small amount of money back from it.
Things change in time, what may have been valid in initial court case in Utah may not be applicable now. so its not just a simple case of saying YES we will do it, it could be more a case of money IS coming into CME, and a product IS about to be shipped, if you stop this then it is not in the best interests of the company and investors for a ruling to pull the plug (when it could be weeks from a product).
It could be they want this proceeding to go through before any revenue is generated by the SG product, because when this happens money will flood (possibly) into the coffers, and then plug all the problems up, and stop them taking over MMOGULS.
As to whether MMOGULS money went into CME, its assumed that the money from MMOGULS was intended for downline payments, in this case fraud, but if this money was earnings (salary to GW from MMOGULS) that was used in CME, then this claim is unfounded, again this is for the court to decide.
I am hopeful we get a game that we can play, no matter what the income is, but in the present situation I think anyone stepping into CME at the present time to wrestle control from GW (even though all money decisions are now out of his hands) would be possibly a bad move, and not in the best interest of the company and its investors. Again the money that they are owed isnt really that much in terms of how much has been sunk into CME. My guess would be they go after GARVICK, the company that owns 51% of the CME stock.
No matter how you look at it, the investors are in pretty bad shape under the current situation. With the amount of money rumored to already be sunk into the project...SGW would have to be a pretty big success to even recoup their investment.....and even that would take time.
I suspect that the reason why a person in Nedra's position would sue (outside of pure personal animosty toward how GW operated... which can always be a factor) would be to get control of the operation so they could safely pump enough money into it so they could recoup SOME of thier losses. Under the current situation, even though the investors can control what money goes into the operation....dolling out a dollar at a time.... the control they have over the company as a whole is very indirect, the owner is still the legal controling entity and can pretty much make whatever decisions they want. Specificly important for some-one in Nedra's position I would think would be control of the Books (i.e. the accounting for what money is coming in and recording how it's spent). That's got to be a big issue, given some of the past questions of financial discrepencies.
In the current case, I presume the recievers job would basicaly be to try to perserve things AS IS, to the extent possible....and really get control of the books and figure out (to the extent possible) what money really went where. The recievership in this case would likely be temporary...until there was some sort of final award...which I'm guessing Nedra presumes would be to her, giving her control.
Now, if it went to bankruptcy court, the recievership there would be an entirely different ball-game. The recieverships would be to try to get as much money as practicaly possible out of the company...and to control how that companies debts are repaid. The reciever there would basicaly weigh the companies REALISTIC likelihood for future proffits under a restructuring against the value of it's current assets if sold. They'd make a judgement call about which REALISTICALY was able to yield more cash. Note, that unlike some investors... they are not really much interested in throwing dice and seeing what happens...they are going to be looking to things that can be predicted with some concreteness. Usualy if it goes to bankruptcy, the investors are the big loosers, since they are the last in line to get paid. Unless a company really has very good tangible assets....and is just being horribly managed...investors try to avoid bankruptcy court. The people who's intrest it is to see things goto bankruptcy are 1) The Tax Collectors (they get paid first), 2) former employees (they are 2nd in line to get paid any wages owed them), 3) vendors (they get paid next if anything is left).
Comments
as far as I knew GW didnt actually control any of the money decisions anymore anyways, the group of investors that came in with there money are now controlling how its spent, is this guy gonna come in, and say no you cant do that, and watch the investors leave ?
As far as I knew, they were only putting in a little at a time and controlling what was spent, if this guy comes in he wont have anything to spend, or control, as the investors literally only put in what they need and when they need it.
I have the feeling that even if they did bring this guy in, he would have little to no control over the money or how it would be spent.
This gets back to what they want to do.
It is within his power to lay everyone off and suspend development, so as not to incur any more liabilities until the court case is settled and the game's progress and viability is determined.
Or he could continue things as they are. While the inflow of capital is supposedly gated by the investors, I believe the court gives him sole right to spend that as he sees fit. This too could upset the cart, as the investors may decide they don't want to give up the control.
No matter what on that side, he could very well replace the entire executive management team (e.g., Jenson).
Many outcomes are possible, but we won't know which until this plays out some more.
well ten ton hammer have said what we have said as well, www.tentonhammer.com/node/74326 so seems pretty official to me now. How long until mmorpg.com staff report this officially.
Just because a group of investors gives you some money, does not mean get you get to do with it what you please or they please, especially if you have a garnishment or a judgment out against Whiting, CME, MMOGULS, etc. CME owes some serious cash to many.
Oddly, CME recently changed banks -- maybe in an effort for dodging payment on some of the old debts owed? Yeah, tell the courts we still bank with Wells Fargo, but have the investors deposit it somewhere else.
First off a CME share is worth less than 2cents and I doubt a stock certificate from Gary Whiting is going to settle this court case over $2.5 milllion! Secondly the lawsuit includes CME so it does very much effect CME, or what's left of that sad sorry company. Yellow, the blind wraith believer posts are getting old, everytime you post I see this in my mind,
That's it, that sums up every single post that Yellowperil has ever made in these forums. Yellow if you have any evidence that MMOGUL's and CME are seperate please post the links. I'll post mine first,
GARVICK PROPERTIES LLC - owned by Whiting and the company CME shareholders write a cheque to in order to purchase CME shares.
Cheyene Mountain Entertainment - Failed MMORPG company owned by Gary Whiting and does work for MMOGULs. Until recently was situated in the same building as MMOGULs.
MMOGULS inc - Whiting owned pyramid scheme that sells the product CME was making, also has paid CME to produce artwork for them.
The Now Corporation - Whiting company that is the ultimate owner of many Whiting companies including his many shell corporations.
Itz Your Mall inc - A Whiting company being run by Keith Deering who is also on the board of directors at CME. This company has a contract with both CME and MMOGULs. To sell SGW through itz your mall to MMOGULs.
If you either don't understand that or don't want to then you can hear it from the horses mouth,MMOGULS podcast with Gary Whiting - Gary Whiting states himself in no uncertain terms that his company CME will be selling SGW to customers of his company MMOGULs in an exclusive deal in order to perpetuate his pyramid scheme.
If you don't get it then you need your head testing, if you have evidence to the contrary then link it before you start off on the blind faith dogma of team Whiting,
Thankyou,
Agricola
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
It would be interesting to see the full script of that document, I noticed quite a few pages were missing 10 on one side and ?? many on the other.
I am sure it will be interesting to see the outcome of the case, but in most cases that people are trying to extract something or get something, they always aim a lot higher on the payout. But as I read the cut down script I see quite a few things that are relevant to the case on both sides.
It seems from GW's point of view that MMOGULS has been tried once already to be taken away from him, I dont know the legal stuff, but just because you invested in something doesn't make you the owner of it. And I think this court case really is about taking MMOGULS away from GW, using references to what he has done in the other companies as reference to why he should not run it anymore. This does not mean he will lose his company, but he would not be the have the control of how money is used or spent anymore, I dont know if this could then be used to oust him, but the company is registered in his name and belongs to him.
As to getting anything out of CME, i cant see this being the case, from what I understood from the forum posts is that most of the accusations are aimed at him personally. Using reference to his other companies as he has property or stock that could be liquidated to pay back investors money owed. As this case is based on MMOGULS, someone could come in and take control of that, but as for someone coming in to take control of CME, when the case is primarily MMOGULS (that's what they invested there money in) I cant see why someone would come in and control CME, because of a dispute with MMOGULS.
As I see it saying someone is not good enough to run one company your invested in, doesnt give you any real say how he runs another company, all you can do anything about is the company you have invested in, and in this case this is MMOGULS. Correct me if I am wrong, but it doesnt seem possible to force control over 6-7 other companies or subsiduries of a company, when the argument is only against one company, even if this guy runs them all. But hey I know crap all about the US legal system so it would be nice if someone could explain how this could happen.
Yellowperil,
While it's not so easy to do, it can be done. See some new uploaded documents here. The first one is Robert McKell's reply to memorandum of points. Fromt here, you can follow the money and see that his investor deal is tied to both MMOGULS and CME. Because the two companies are tethered together for the success of MMOGULS, it is in the plaintiff’s best interest to control 1) the company the money goes into (Garvick), 2) the company that is producing the moneymaker (CME) and 3) the company that is going to make continued money thereafter (MMOGULS). The McKell’s were promised revenue from both CME & MMOGULS in addition to CME Stock.
Therefore, to protect his investment, he needs to protect all three companies.
On the tail end of that upload is the McKell response to the previously filed documents on the 9th? And the Whiting response to the McKell’s arguments.
I am going to update the other cases, once I find that thread. Of interest is the Ann Colson case, which is ripe with long torrid affairs, polygamy with up to 5 wives! And the final Judgment in the case. Stay tuned!
Interesting read, problem now seems to be that they need proof, not hearsay.
I see they also take into consideration that they are investors only, and have no signed documents of any control of the money.
I really don't see this going very far. If there is no proof for the court to see then the court case will fail, also other possible things may turn up that have a big impact on the court, Jenson is a big one, and if its proven that money wasnt released by him then GW could easily say the money that was diverted was for the health of the company and not fraud. Again I am sure this is all gonna be interesting, but if they are taking on whiting with just hearsay and no proof, I cant see them getting much out of the court case, using statements about how badly he runs other companies may just fall of deaf ears, I noticed they are trying to tie up both MMOGULS and CME in the court case, but again I think its gonna be hard to pull the court case off, to many blanks need to be filled in, and if there is no proof (physical) then its all just going to be hearsay. It doesnt matter if GW is guilty or not, without the proof no judge is going to listen to hearsay and pass judgement someone is guilty just from that.
What would be interesting is that if this goes badly for the prosecution, could the defence file against them in a counter sue or whatever.??????
If this case were like the others, I might agree.
But there is a big difference: for whatever reason, GW was outmaneuvered in Utah, and CME/MMOGULS have already been placed in receivership.
The uphill climb is now on GW, not the plaintiffs, to either get the Utah order blocked by AZ, or to appeal in Utah. Based on my understanding now of "full faith and credit", I think the first is very hard since I don't think he can argue the merits of the case in AZ. This is why he is trying to make a "fraud upon the court" argument, perhaps opening the door to arguing the facts.
What the receivership means for CME, assuming it is enforced, is as yet unknown. But it takes full control away from GW/Jenson/Hensley, for better or for worse.
Hmm, if AZ does get in the middle of this by blocking it, it may be headed for the Federal courts.
Something tells me that someone as wealthy as the plantiffs that can afford good lawyers aren't going to be filing frivolous lawsuits when they have no proof. I'm certain they've spoken with a good law firm before filing and asked them if there's enough for a successful prosecution.
Besides one of the points that will be made in court is no doubt the fact that Gary used money that was meant to pay MMOGULs members their cut of their downlines and used it to pay employees at CME. That's how he ended the first round of employees not being paid. Do the oplantiffs have proof? Well there are plenty of ex MMOGULs at Mondelis that would no doubt like to plunge the knife into Gary's back after he did the same to them. I know there are people there that know he mismanaged funds and if asked to testify in court they'll have to spill the beans or commit purgery. As the agreement they signed with Gary before leaving holds no water in court.
So is there proof? Yes there's plenty. Could the plantiffs be prosecuted for filing a frivolous lawsuit against Whiting? Well Whiting has to come out of this case smelling of roses first, then he has to prove there was nothing to the case which he can't do because he has grossly mismanaged every single company he has ever run!
Gary used MMOGULs money to support CME at the cost of MMOGULs customers not getting their profits promised by MMOGULs. So CME is tied up in this case, not that CME is worth a rat's backside anyway! But if Gary falls so do all of the crumby companies that he runs. Whiting loses this case and how exactly does he run MMOGULs? I don't see Gary paying what he owes to MMOGULs investors and customers, do you? So somethings gotta give. He loses control of MMOGULs and CME becomes even more of a mill stone around his neck. He has no way to support the hand full of losers working there right now, let alone develop, test and launch his shitty Stargate FPS which still hasn't been officialy announced. CME is dead weight anyhow, he just keeps the facade going because he's making a mint from MMOGULs. Once he either loses control of MMOGULs or it's just crippled by this lawsuit, CME becomes a pointless expense.
But yeah maybe in yellowperil world he wins everything and sues them for millions for filing a bologne lawsuit? ... NOT!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
YellowPeril,
I think your optimisim is sorely misplaced. The issue here appear to be that a Utah court ALREADY ruled on this. So the first question (as I understand it) before the AZ court is NOT to decide the facts of the case... the Utah Court in theory was already supposed to have done that.... it's to decide whether there is grounds to set aside the Utah Court's ruling. Thanks to the "Full Faith and Credit" clause in the Constitution (I'm not a lawyer but I understand a little bit about how these things work)..... the AZ Courts job is NOT to decide whether the Utah Courts ruling was correct or not....but to decide on procedural grounds whether there was a valid reason that Utah should not have ruled on the case, in the first place.
For instance, if you live Maine and your sued by a business based in Connecticut but the person who sued you filed the suit in California and got that Court to issue a ruling.... you could (legitimately) ask a Maine Court to set aside the ruling on the grounds that California had no proper standing to decide the case in the first place. In this case, it sounds like GW is claiming that the plantiffs perpetrated fraud against the Utah Courts. If that's the case, the onus is on GW to prove not just that the plantiffs were wrong...but that they fabricated evidence to the Utah Court....and that the evidence was of sufficient weight that the Utah Court would have decided differently had it not been presented. IF GW can proove that... THEN the AZ Court could set aside the existing ruling.... and at that point, and only that point...the plantifs would get the opportunity to file suit against GW in AZ...and then the AZ Court could examine the facts of the case.
Note that although the suit is against GW..... since CME is a privately owned company...and GW (apparently) owns 51% or more of the stock in that company.... the Court definately can appoint a reciever to protect the plantiffs financial interest in that asset. The reciever can pretty much decide to do anything that the owner might be able to do.
Furthermore, this suit is only one of many of CME's and GW's legal troubles at the moment. The big question is whether CME can be forced into bankruptcy. If enough of it's creditors get claims against it....CME could be forced into bankruptcy (which IMO would probably be the best thing for most people in this situation.... including fans of the game). In that case the bankruptcy court would appoint a reciever who's priorties would be to pay-off the companies debts in the following order:
1) Any taxes owed (I've heard CME owe's alot)
2) Any back wages owed
3) Any debts owed to vendors
4) any debts owed to creditors/investors.
The appointed reciever would basicaly make a decision as to how best to achieve those goals.....which would basicaly boil down to either a) Closing up shop and liquidating any of CME's tangible assets OR b) Putting together some sort of structured plan to reduce the companies unneccesary overhead and start getting it profitable.
EITHER of those situations sound like they would be vastly preferable to the kinds of shenanigans and mayhem that has existed to date. At least there would be some documented level of responsibility and accountability.
Furthermore, some sort of final legal resolution of ALL these outstanding legal claims is about the ONLY chance CME would have to get much serious investment at this point. Most serious investors (at least savvy ones) RUN not walk from companies that have this level of outstanding legal issues. I'm absolutely shocked CME was able to get any additional investment under these circumstances.
As an investor, there is pretty much zero protection for any funds that you put in under these circumstances..... and if it does come down to bankruptcy....your pretty much the last one in line to get paid off.
Grumpy thanks for the heads up, I havent a clue to the US law system, but overall if someone steps in now and stops the current investors putting in money on the as needed basis, the court ruling someone to come in could actually harm this, so its not in the best interest of the investors (those that have put more money in than the amount that is being argued about).
My guess is that MMOGULS is all but taken over and will be a loss to GW, as to CME again the court may decide to leave things as they are with the current investors running the show, as they are literally about to put a product to market, which would generate some revenue stream, anyone coming in and stopping this would actually harm more people (other investors and such) just to get a small amount of money back from it.
Things change in time, what may have been valid in initial court case in Utah may not be applicable now. so its not just a simple case of saying YES we will do it, it could be more a case of money IS coming into CME, and a product IS about to be shipped, if you stop this then it is not in the best interests of the company and investors for a ruling to pull the plug (when it could be weeks from a product).
It could be they want this proceeding to go through before any revenue is generated by the SG product, because when this happens money will flood (possibly) into the coffers, and then plug all the problems up, and stop them taking over MMOGULS.
As to whether MMOGULS money went into CME, its assumed that the money from MMOGULS was intended for downline payments, in this case fraud, but if this money was earnings (salary to GW from MMOGULS) that was used in CME, then this claim is unfounded, again this is for the court to decide.
I am hopeful we get a game that we can play, no matter what the income is, but in the present situation I think anyone stepping into CME at the present time to wrestle control from GW (even though all money decisions are now out of his hands) would be possibly a bad move, and not in the best interest of the company and its investors. Again the money that they are owed isnt really that much in terms of how much has been sunk into CME. My guess would be they go after GARVICK, the company that owns 51% of the CME stock.
Yellow,
No matter how you look at it, the investors are in pretty bad shape under the current situation. With the amount of money rumored to already be sunk into the project...SGW would have to be a pretty big success to even recoup their investment.....and even that would take time.
I suspect that the reason why a person in Nedra's position would sue (outside of pure personal animosty toward how GW operated... which can always be a factor) would be to get control of the operation so they could safely pump enough money into it so they could recoup SOME of thier losses. Under the current situation, even though the investors can control what money goes into the operation....dolling out a dollar at a time.... the control they have over the company as a whole is very indirect, the owner is still the legal controling entity and can pretty much make whatever decisions they want. Specificly important for some-one in Nedra's position I would think would be control of the Books (i.e. the accounting for what money is coming in and recording how it's spent). That's got to be a big issue, given some of the past questions of financial discrepencies.
In the current case, I presume the recievers job would basicaly be to try to perserve things AS IS, to the extent possible....and really get control of the books and figure out (to the extent possible) what money really went where. The recievership in this case would likely be temporary...until there was some sort of final award...which I'm guessing Nedra presumes would be to her, giving her control.
Now, if it went to bankruptcy court, the recievership there would be an entirely different ball-game. The recieverships would be to try to get as much money as practicaly possible out of the company...and to control how that companies debts are repaid. The reciever there would basicaly weigh the companies REALISTIC likelihood for future proffits under a restructuring against the value of it's current assets if sold. They'd make a judgement call about which REALISTICALY was able to yield more cash. Note, that unlike some investors... they are not really much interested in throwing dice and seeing what happens...they are going to be looking to things that can be predicted with some concreteness. Usualy if it goes to bankruptcy, the investors are the big loosers, since they are the last in line to get paid. Unless a company really has very good tangible assets....and is just being horribly managed...investors try to avoid bankruptcy court. The people who's intrest it is to see things goto bankruptcy are 1) The Tax Collectors (they get paid first), 2) former employees (they are 2nd in line to get paid any wages owed them), 3) vendors (they get paid next if anything is left).