I throughly enjoy games with skillchains and this type of group turn-based play. FFXI, LOTRO.. any kind. For me, there is just something about that part of teamwork that makes the grouping more satisfying.
I'm currently playing Champions Online and the "group play", isn't really group at all. It's really kind of scary to see how people are getting trained in MMOs that have never seen real group play.
The way the game is designed, everyone is a Hero. So people literally try and take that approach when grouped. You see one munitions person dropping minimines that blow everything to smithereens, one ice guy mowing stuff down and one dual swords guy making diced mobs. It's basically a race to see who can kill every mob first and fastest. There is no talking/chat, it's just kill this, then run over there and kill that. It reminds me of a school of piranha that just run around and eat anything that falls into the water. It's really six people playing individually in a group. I'm not saying the game isn't fun; I'm actually enjoying a lot of the diversity of characters. Fun making them and fun building them out, but I don't like the fact that yet another game released and the group play is lacking because a game doesn't foster it or the people chose not to participate in a communal way.
In games like FFXI, you had to make the SCs. If you didn't, you'd run out of mana and your groups would die unless you had a crackerjack RDM. You might get another mob. You might get bosses enraged. Teamwork was key on just about every mob from start to max. LOTRO was color coded, so people had to know who was going to hit what color in what order or you'd miss the group heal buff everyone needed because they were all down to 100 hps. Games like that make much better fun for me as you actually have to pay attention. You cannot watch television and play FFXI. You miss the SC, you drive your teammates nuts.
There isn't anything I've had gamewise that compares to hitting a Flare or Firaga Magic Burst or a E-bow Sidewider on a mob after a SC when your group was about to get wiped that saves the day. Or being a RDM and slipping in a couple of Magic Burst nukes to help out in between doing the other 1001 things you did during a fight. Nothing yet that I've seen since I stopped playing FFXI. Closest was LOTRO. This kind of turn based play is addictive.
I don't like how new MMOs want to give everyone that opportunity to be the "hero" by just pounding keys till the letters wear off. It just breeds that me-me attitude. I prefer my games communistic instead of capitalistic where everyone has a part/role and they do it.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Lets examine the facts.
1. I questioned the assumptions of the community about the combat system.
2. CDCosta started shouting and implied people (presumably including me) were being stupid.
3. I made a mildly smart aleck remark about how the community self image of being more mature than all the rest was not being born out.
4. CDCosta accused me of posting hate in every post I make (which is not at all true) and implied I should leave.
5. You supported his behavior.
Im not going to accuse anyone of being immature because I dont think anyone is anything. People are in constant flux and what they seem to be one minute is not what they are. But I think that if you all like the ideal of a mature community then it might be valuable to consider what that ideal means and requires.
Originally posted by svann Originally posted by Rajen Originally posted by svann Originally posted by CDCosta Originally posted by svann Originally posted by CDCosta Watch the Gameplay footage people.
Let's not be stupid about this.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely? All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Lets examine the facts. 1. I questioned the assumptions of the community about the combat system. 2. CDCosta started shouting and implied people (presumably including me) were being stupid. 3. I made a mildly smart aleck remark about how the community self image of being more mature than all the rest was not being born out. 4. CDCosta accused me of posting hate in every post I make (which is not at all true) and implied I should leave. 5. You supported his behavior. Im not going to accuse anyone of being immature because I dont think anyone is anything. People are in constant flux and what they seem to be one minute is not what they are. But I think that if you all like the ideal of a mature community then it might be valuable to consider what that ideal means and requires.
Regardless of what someone else said, it you want to be taken seriously in your "debate", that in yellow doesn't belong here if you are talking about the community.
Your posts generally go along the lines of "If only FFXIV would put THIS or THAT in the game, then it would generated X amount of more accounts and be a great game. Why don't they and the FF community see this?"
This despite the fact that you have been told over and over again at nauseum that the FF community does not want that ridiculous stuff in the game and we like it the way it is and only want MORE of the same. Going into any diehard community and telling them their game is meh, but needs major changes doesn't really work well, especially if it isn't true or they don't want it. If the game had been doing badly in history, then you may have had some points, but it's success pretty shows your changes aren't really necessary for the game to be good.
I believe (I could be wrong) but you were the same poster who was arguing about having PvP in this game more prominently as part of your "adventure" and people kept telling you "Thanks, but NO thanks on the mass PvP, we like story" yet you persisted.
People will only read your posts for so long until they see it as trolling because you aren't listening. You are kind of like "Gee, I know you guys like chocolate, but you should put some peanut butter on it and it'll taste REALLY good, and everyone will think it's great too and want to eat it as well!" The problem is most of the FFXI community doesn't like, want, or is allergic to the brand of peanut butter you keep trying to sell here.
Isn't there some other game you could send your "improvements" and helpful suggestions to? You know, like Warhammer, Age of Conan, Mortal Online, Champions Online or something else? I'm sure they could use your pointers to help their sagging subscription bases. FF MMOs are just fine as is.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Lets examine the facts.
1. I questioned the assumptions of the community about the combat system.
2. CDCosta started shouting and implied people (presumably including me) were being stupid.
3. I made a mildly smart aleck remark about how the community self image of being more mature than all the rest was not being born out.
4. CDCosta accused me of posting hate in every post I make (which is not at all true) and implied I should leave.
5. You supported his behavior.
Im not going to accuse anyone of being immature because I dont think anyone is anything. People are in constant flux and what they seem to be one minute is not what they are. But I think that if you all like the ideal of a mature community then it might be valuable to consider what that ideal means and requires.
Regardless of what someone else said, it you want to be taken seriously in your "debate", that in yellow doesn't belong here if you are talking about the community.
Your posts generally go along the lines of "If only FFXIV would put THIS or THAT in the game, then it would generated X amount of more accounts and be a great game. Why don't they and the FF community see this?"
Well like I said, you must be confusing me with someone else. I never said X would generate more accounts. Thats not an arguement I am likely to make, ever. I also never weighed in on pvp. Im personally against it, but if its there im ok with it I guess. I think I have mostly been in controversy in two positions.
1. That jumping is not a bad thing. The majority is against me on this, I get it. That opinion is far from unanimous and I dont see that it means that I should not speak my opinion on it in any case. You think only the majority should have an opinion? The thread I started on kiting was actually intended to speak to the jumping issue so it doesnt count as a separate point.
2. What turn based means. People like to presume that when the devs said ff14 would be turn based that means it will be like ff11. I dont see it. In the first place I dont think the devs ever described ff11 as turn based. I could be wrong, I am new to the community. But I asked the question and no one came back and said "yea they did. ff11 has always been described as turn based". If it wasnt called turn based then the fact that they are calling ff14 turn based does not necessarily imply that it is like ff11. In fact, I believe the devs stated ff14 combat system would be unlike any other mmo. Since ff11 is an mmo that implies ff14 will be different than ff11, doesnt it? And I dont think that video is conclusive. Im also not saying that turn based would be a bad thing, or that the ff11 system is bad. Just that people are jumping to a conclusion that is not justified. (theres that bad word jumping again, haha)
3. ok, three positions. My crack about the maturity may have been smart alecky, but seems to be spot on nevertheless. A mature community does not have to shout down the other side, resort to calling them stupid, or make false accusations.
And people always wondered why the JP always had nazi "JP onry" parties....
They didn't want to play with western gamers who: did not listen, pull too fast, pull too much agro, only play for 30 minutes right after getting to camp, miss skillchains, did not even know what a skill chain was, miss MB's, didn't even know what a MB was, overnuked pulling agro and dying, sucked at healing, didn't know when to drop a heal bomb, didn't know their role in a group party, had no respect, did not know what respect was, did not have humility or humbleness, thought they were a badass even though they were a huge noob.....etc... the list goes on an on...
If you proved yourself to them, and if they like you, they would have no problem inviting you back time after time, for more exp parties.
@ popinjay: nice posts. And people always wondered why the JP always had nazi "JP onry" parties.... They didn't want to play with western gamers who: did not listen, pull too fast, pull too much agro, only play for 30 minutes right after getting to camp, miss skillchains, did not even know what a skill chain was, miss MB's, didn't even know what a MB was, overnuked pulling agro and dying, sucked at healing, didn't know when to drop a heal bomb, didn't know their role in a group party, had no respect, did not know what respect was, did not have humility or humbleness, thought they were a badass even though they were a huge noob.....etc... the list goes on an on... If you proved yourself to them, and if they like you, they would have no problem inviting you back time after time, for more exp parties.
That is true I've partied with plenty of JP's and got reinvites from the same people. It also goes both ways though. I've grouped with some sucky jp's that did the same thing above so its a person's nature not culture. You have you a hole Americans, Europians, Japanese, and whatever country players. Then you have your cool people from each culture that listens, plays well with others, and so on.
At first grouping with Japanese parties was hard as a player. But when they put in the translator text it made it much easier.
At launch the Japanese didn't want much to do with Westerners and for good reason. A lot of Westerners were coming off of games like Diablo, Tribe, Unreal Tournament, DAOC and "I'll pwn your face!" games. The Japanese did everything for group, as is their culture. Americans came in rather pushy and demanded that Japanese "speak English" and all other sorts of silly things on a Japanese game. Japanese also were more into Beastmasters and it took awhile for Westerners to understand how good a character they were.
When I had a day to burn on a Saturday, some of the best exp I ever had was with the Japanese. They talked very little (no one used Vent then) except for emotes like ") >.< and stuff like that. But when it came down to grouping, you could guarantee it was like a well oiled machine with few people trying to be a "hero". You also knew you were going to be grouping for hours... not just 1 hour and "Hey guys, I gotta go and do homework my Mom said. Take care!" The first real session I ever had gaming was with a Japanese group that was so good, I didn't want to log off. It was about 6 hours straight with a few breaks but mainly just cranking out levels.
A lot of Americans were so ignorant, they used to confuse Japanese players with Chinese goldfarmers routinely and it was embarrassing. They'd see characters and being ignorant, think "Chinese" and then start with the insults about "playing their own game", which again used to make me laugh at the stupidity of the statement, but also cringe as a person who routinely partied with Japanese.
I have a feeling that now that FF isn't really a secret and they are trying to make the game more "solo friendly", we are going to see a lot more of those morons in FFXIV unfortunately. Before you could shut those guys out and you knew they'd quit when no one would group with them because their reputation was ruined, and in a heavy group grind game like that it was death. If this is so solo friendly that they can now just max any class to level easily for the "jumping/pvp" crowd, I don't see good things.
But you must understand, it gets irratating when a bunch of people tell you why its called 'turn-based', and you ignore it and keep arguing...
when the developers already said: "The combat will be similar to that of FFXI" and we have actual, in-game footage of the combat.
It's hard for me to understand why there is still an arguement over what 'turnbased' means. It's pretty clear if you watch the footage. It just seemed like you were purposely trying to make negative arguements about the game, and that makes me think you don't like the game and are trolling.
My thoughts are pretty clear, as everyone has backed me up.
So please accept the fact that it is 'turnbased' and that it will be similar to that of FFXI, and that there is indeed gameplay footage out there and no need for this thread.
Sorry Svann, I would have been on the fence about you being a troll or not but then I remembered you wrote this in a previous thread about jumping:
"You guys keep saying how the FF playerbase is so mature but yet you think that if there is jumping it will be abused. Sounds like what you really think is that FF playerbase is just as immature as wow's."
Sorry Svann, I would have been on the fence about you being a troll or not but then I remembered you wrote this in a previous thread about jumping: "You guys keep saying how the FF playerbase is so mature but yet you think that if there is jumping it will be abused. Sounds like what you really think is that FF playerbase is just as immature as wow's." www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/forums/thread/249934/page/7 So on more than one occasion you have made comments about the FF community being immature. I don't know why you have a chip on your soldier against the FF playerbase/community but to be honest, I really don't care. But yes, you certainly appear to be a troll.
I dont have anything against the FF community. I do think that when people say "we are better than wow community" it is a bit obnoxious. From what I see mmo communities are pretty much the same everywhere you go. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. If you would like to prove me wrong, dont be accepting/supporting of immature behaviors in the community. Stuff like shouting down people with alternate opinions for instance, and trying to imply that there is no room for any opinions except the majority opinions from the FF11 community - which is a completely different game btw. And applying labels (stupid, troll) in an attempt to shut people up. If it helps, Im sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess I did try to tweek your feathers in an attempt to make you think and that was technically dishonest. Im not perfect. I wouldnt think Im a troll though.
Turn based is ok for console games but i dont think i would be up for it in an MMO that is 3-D. I dont think that the idea is so bad for a browser game but thats about it.
But you must understand, it gets irratating when a bunch of people tell you why its called 'turn-based', and you ignore it and keep arguing...
when the developers already said: "The combat will be similar to that of FFXI" and we have actual, in-game footage of the combat.
Oh, well why didnt you say so before? If devs said that it would be like FF11 then that answers the question for sure. The last I read from devs they said that it would be unlike any other mmo, which I assumed also meant unlike FF11. Do you have a link to confirm that the devs said this?
Sorry Svann, I would have been on the fence about you being a troll or not but then I remembered you wrote this in a previous thread about jumping: "You guys keep saying how the FF playerbase is so mature but yet you think that if there is jumping it will be abused. Sounds like what you really think is that FF playerbase is just as immature as wow's." www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/forums/thread/249934/page/7 So on more than one occasion you have made comments about the FF community being immature. I don't know why you have a chip on your soldier against the FF playerbase/community but to be honest, I really don't care. But yes, you certainly appear to be a troll.
I dont have anything against the FF community. I do think that when people say "we are better than wow community" it is a bit obnoxious. From what I see mmo communities are pretty much the same everywhere you go. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. If you would like to prove me wrong, dont be accepting/supporting of immature behaviors in the community. Stuff like shouting down people with alternate opinions for instance, and trying to imply that there is no room for any opinions except the majority opinions from the FF11 community - which is a completely different game btw. And applying labels (stupid, troll) in an attempt to shut people up. If it helps, Im sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess I did try to tweek your feathers in an attempt to make you think and that was technically dishonest. Im not perfect. I wouldnt think Im a troll though.
Did you consider that people may feel your posts are the ones that are immature? And when people don't accept/support your posts (as you suggested above) you say you are shouted down...
There is a difference between having a different opinion and acting trollish. I am sorry you do not see the difference.
Example 1:
When you feel one person insulted you and you correct them or state your case, that is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
When you feel one person insulted you and you say "I see how immature the FF community is", that is trollish
Example 2:
Saying "I would like jumping in the game" and explaining why is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
Saying "I guess the FF community is immature if they can't have jumping in the game" is trollish
As much as you may want to believe it, nobody is calling you a troll for having a different opinion. They are calling you a troll for the way you choose to carry yourself.
Sorry Svann, I would have been on the fence about you being a troll or not but then I remembered you wrote this in a previous thread about jumping: "You guys keep saying how the FF playerbase is so mature but yet you think that if there is jumping it will be abused. Sounds like what you really think is that FF playerbase is just as immature as wow's." www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/forums/thread/249934/page/7 So on more than one occasion you have made comments about the FF community being immature. I don't know why you have a chip on your soldier against the FF playerbase/community but to be honest, I really don't care. But yes, you certainly appear to be a troll.
I dont have anything against the FF community. I do think that when people say "we are better than wow community" it is a bit obnoxious. From what I see mmo communities are pretty much the same everywhere you go. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. If you would like to prove me wrong, dont be accepting/supporting of immature behaviors in the community. Stuff like shouting down people with alternate opinions for instance, and trying to imply that there is no room for any opinions except the majority opinions from the FF11 community - which is a completely different game btw. And applying labels (stupid, troll) in an attempt to shut people up. If it helps, Im sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess I did try to tweek your feathers in an attempt to make you think and that was technically dishonest. Im not perfect. I wouldnt think Im a troll though.
Did you consider that people may feel your posts are the ones that are immature? And when people don't accept/support your posts (as you suggested above) you say you are shouted down...
There is a difference between having a different opinion and acting trollish. I am sorry you do not see the difference.
Example 1:
When you feel one person insulted you and you correct them or state your case, that is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
When you feel one person insulted you and you say "I see how immature the FF community is", that is trollish
Example 2:
Saying "I would like jumping in the game" and explaining why is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
Saying "I guess the FF community is immature if they can't have jumping in the game" is trollish
As much as you may want to believe it, nobody is calling you a troll for having a different opinion. They are calling you a troll for the way you choose to carry yourself.
I honestly hope this helps you in the future.
Example 1: Ok, your right. I should not have tarred a community based on 1 or even 2 posters. Apologies to all.
Example 2: Thats not what I said. I didnt say FF was immature. I said that if people think the community will abuse jumping then THEY must think the community is immature. I accept that its a debatable point. But I did not say what you think I said.
Here's your sources, so everyone can see what they mean by 'Turn-based' and we can end this thread.
Source 1: Peeler Interview (Where this freaken question got started, it says it in the same article)
"It will be a number set like most MMOS, but there are some key differences. The game is going to have an attack bar similar to other final fantasy games."
Source 2: E3 Interview - Komoto & Tanaka
"we believe that the combat system in FF14 will be different then that of FF11, that it will be closer to that 'real time' battle"
Source 3: I didn't find the source but the quote was something along the lines of:
"The timing between attacks will be similar to that of FFXI"
Here's your sources, so everyone can see what they mean by 'Turn-based' and we can end this thread.
Source 1: Peeler Interview (Where this freaken question got started, it says it in the same article) "It will be a number set like most MMOS, but there are some key differences. The game is going to have an attack bar similar to other final fantasy games." Source 2: E3 Interview - Komoto & Tanaka "we believe that the combat system in FF14 will be different then that of FF11, that it will be closer to that 'real time' battle" Source 3: I didn't find the source but the quote was something along the lines of: "The timing between attacks will be similar to that of FFXI"
Thanks for the info. That supports my earlier hunch.
Based on this, I'm pretty sure they will be using a system similar to the ATB system that started in FFIV and has been in most FF games since. So no, stalling your attack will not help you as someone previously suggested. The enemy will be able to attack every time their ATB bar is full whether you attacked or not.
And yes, there is even a wikipedia article that discusses the ATB system:
"Hiroyuki Ito introduced the "Active Time Battle System" in Final Fantasy IV,[1] where the time-keeping system does not stop.[8]"
"On the battle screen, each character has an ATB meter that gradually fills, and the player is allowed to issue a command to that character once the meter is full.[9] The fact that enemies can attack or be attacked at any time is credited with injecting urgency and excitement into the combat system.[8] This remained the norm until Final Fantasy X implemented a Conditional Turn-Based system, which slowed gameplay while making it important for the right characters to square off against the right monsters."
The article also states that FFXI used a real time system with the auto attack feature but my understanding is they may be taking the auto-attack system out of FFXIV and just leaving the ATB system like most of the classic FF games had. I, for one, am really looking forward to a FF MMO that resembles the days of old... okay, I'll stop now... I'm getting too nostalgic.
Edit: Oh, and for the record, I think it will be similar to the version where you can stall your attack and keep your bar full until you issue an attack (as opposed to queing attacks that automatically go off when your bar fills). When you select your attack/ability, the bar will empty and begin to refill again. I admit this may make for a bit more slow paced fighting but I am ready for something new in an MMO and this could also lead to more strategy being involved.
I also think that some classes' bars will fill faster than others and/or a stat will add to how fast the bar fills up. Classic FF spells like "Haste" or "Slow" should also effect how fast or slow the bar fills up.
Comments
Lol turn based, I could just imagine getting hit down to 1hp and then just playing the waiting game untill you win by forfeit
Watch the Gameplay footage people.
Let's not be stupid about this.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
I throughly enjoy games with skillchains and this type of group turn-based play. FFXI, LOTRO.. any kind. For me, there is just something about that part of teamwork that makes the grouping more satisfying.
I'm currently playing Champions Online and the "group play", isn't really group at all. It's really kind of scary to see how people are getting trained in MMOs that have never seen real group play.
The way the game is designed, everyone is a Hero. So people literally try and take that approach when grouped. You see one munitions person dropping minimines that blow everything to smithereens, one ice guy mowing stuff down and one dual swords guy making diced mobs. It's basically a race to see who can kill every mob first and fastest. There is no talking/chat, it's just kill this, then run over there and kill that. It reminds me of a school of piranha that just run around and eat anything that falls into the water. It's really six people playing individually in a group. I'm not saying the game isn't fun; I'm actually enjoying a lot of the diversity of characters. Fun making them and fun building them out, but I don't like the fact that yet another game released and the group play is lacking because a game doesn't foster it or the people chose not to participate in a communal way.
In games like FFXI, you had to make the SCs. If you didn't, you'd run out of mana and your groups would die unless you had a crackerjack RDM. You might get another mob. You might get bosses enraged. Teamwork was key on just about every mob from start to max. LOTRO was color coded, so people had to know who was going to hit what color in what order or you'd miss the group heal buff everyone needed because they were all down to 100 hps. Games like that make much better fun for me as you actually have to pay attention. You cannot watch television and play FFXI. You miss the SC, you drive your teammates nuts.
There isn't anything I've had gamewise that compares to hitting a Flare or Firaga Magic Burst or a E-bow Sidewider on a mob after a SC when your group was about to get wiped that saves the day. Or being a RDM and slipping in a couple of Magic Burst nukes to help out in between doing the other 1001 things you did during a fight. Nothing yet that I've seen since I stopped playing FFXI. Closest was LOTRO. This kind of turn based play is addictive.
I don't like how new MMOs want to give everyone that opportunity to be the "hero" by just pounding keys till the letters wear off. It just breeds that me-me attitude. I prefer my games communistic instead of capitalistic where everyone has a part/role and they do it.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Lets examine the facts.
1. I questioned the assumptions of the community about the combat system.
2. CDCosta started shouting and implied people (presumably including me) were being stupid.
3. I made a mildly smart aleck remark about how the community self image of being more mature than all the rest was not being born out.
4. CDCosta accused me of posting hate in every post I make (which is not at all true) and implied I should leave.
5. You supported his behavior.
Im not going to accuse anyone of being immature because I dont think anyone is anything. People are in constant flux and what they seem to be one minute is not what they are. But I think that if you all like the ideal of a mature community then it might be valuable to consider what that ideal means and requires.
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Lets examine the facts.
1. I questioned the assumptions of the community about the combat system.
2. CDCosta started shouting and implied people (presumably including me) were being stupid.
3. I made a mildly smart aleck remark about how the community self image of being more mature than all the rest was not being born out.
4. CDCosta accused me of posting hate in every post I make (which is not at all true) and implied I should leave.
5. You supported his behavior.
Im not going to accuse anyone of being immature because I dont think anyone is anything. People are in constant flux and what they seem to be one minute is not what they are. But I think that if you all like the ideal of a mature community then it might be valuable to consider what that ideal means and requires.
Regardless of what someone else said, it you want to be taken seriously in your "debate", that in yellow doesn't belong here if you are talking about the community.
Your posts generally go along the lines of "If only FFXIV would put THIS or THAT in the game, then it would generated X amount of more accounts and be a great game. Why don't they and the FF community see this?"
This despite the fact that you have been told over and over again at nauseum that the FF community does not want that ridiculous stuff in the game and we like it the way it is and only want MORE of the same. Going into any diehard community and telling them their game is meh, but needs major changes doesn't really work well, especially if it isn't true or they don't want it. If the game had been doing badly in history, then you may have had some points, but it's success pretty shows your changes aren't really necessary for the game to be good.
I believe (I could be wrong) but you were the same poster who was arguing about having PvP in this game more prominently as part of your "adventure" and people kept telling you "Thanks, but NO thanks on the mass PvP, we like story" yet you persisted.
People will only read your posts for so long until they see it as trolling because you aren't listening. You are kind of like "Gee, I know you guys like chocolate, but you should put some peanut butter on it and it'll taste REALLY good, and everyone will think it's great too and want to eat it as well!" The problem is most of the FFXI community doesn't like, want, or is allergic to the brand of peanut butter you keep trying to sell here.
Isn't there some other game you could send your "improvements" and helpful suggestions to? You know, like Warhammer, Age of Conan, Mortal Online, Champions Online or something else? I'm sure they could use your pointers to help their sagging subscription bases. FF MMOs are just fine as is.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Nice mature community you have here in FF. Ayup. Nothing like it.
How many times do we have to say the same thing nicely?
All your posts are hating on FF14, I assume you don't like it, so why keep posting on our forums?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never hated on anything. I have had some debates about what is meant and what would be good for the game, but have never even said anything against things that are confirmed in the game, and never said anything hating. Before you go accusing someone of hating maybe you should look in your own heart and think about why you would be so quick to condemn without facts.
The reason you are getting a rise out of people is because you made a sarcastic personal attack on the people that play the game, it shouldn't surprise you that someone said something about it to you. Yes, it doesn't look like you said something 'out right' but that isn't fooling anyone, and you know it. So basically, if you aren't aware of it yet, you are a troll my friend
Lets examine the facts.
1. I questioned the assumptions of the community about the combat system.
2. CDCosta started shouting and implied people (presumably including me) were being stupid.
3. I made a mildly smart aleck remark about how the community self image of being more mature than all the rest was not being born out.
4. CDCosta accused me of posting hate in every post I make (which is not at all true) and implied I should leave.
5. You supported his behavior.
Im not going to accuse anyone of being immature because I dont think anyone is anything. People are in constant flux and what they seem to be one minute is not what they are. But I think that if you all like the ideal of a mature community then it might be valuable to consider what that ideal means and requires.
Regardless of what someone else said, it you want to be taken seriously in your "debate", that in yellow doesn't belong here if you are talking about the community.
Your posts generally go along the lines of "If only FFXIV would put THIS or THAT in the game, then it would generated X amount of more accounts and be a great game. Why don't they and the FF community see this?"
Well like I said, you must be confusing me with someone else. I never said X would generate more accounts. Thats not an arguement I am likely to make, ever. I also never weighed in on pvp. Im personally against it, but if its there im ok with it I guess. I think I have mostly been in controversy in two positions.
1. That jumping is not a bad thing. The majority is against me on this, I get it. That opinion is far from unanimous and I dont see that it means that I should not speak my opinion on it in any case. You think only the majority should have an opinion? The thread I started on kiting was actually intended to speak to the jumping issue so it doesnt count as a separate point.
2. What turn based means. People like to presume that when the devs said ff14 would be turn based that means it will be like ff11. I dont see it. In the first place I dont think the devs ever described ff11 as turn based. I could be wrong, I am new to the community. But I asked the question and no one came back and said "yea they did. ff11 has always been described as turn based". If it wasnt called turn based then the fact that they are calling ff14 turn based does not necessarily imply that it is like ff11. In fact, I believe the devs stated ff14 combat system would be unlike any other mmo. Since ff11 is an mmo that implies ff14 will be different than ff11, doesnt it? And I dont think that video is conclusive. Im also not saying that turn based would be a bad thing, or that the ff11 system is bad. Just that people are jumping to a conclusion that is not justified. (theres that bad word jumping again, haha)
3. ok, three positions. My crack about the maturity may have been smart alecky, but seems to be spot on nevertheless. A mature community does not have to shout down the other side, resort to calling them stupid, or make false accusations.
@ popinjay: nice posts.
And people always wondered why the JP always had nazi "JP onry" parties....
They didn't want to play with western gamers who: did not listen, pull too fast, pull too much agro, only play for 30 minutes right after getting to camp, miss skillchains, did not even know what a skill chain was, miss MB's, didn't even know what a MB was, overnuked pulling agro and dying, sucked at healing, didn't know when to drop a heal bomb, didn't know their role in a group party, had no respect, did not know what respect was, did not have humility or humbleness, thought they were a badass even though they were a huge noob.....etc... the list goes on an on...
If you proved yourself to them, and if they like you, they would have no problem inviting you back time after time, for more exp parties.
That is true I've partied with plenty of JP's and got reinvites from the same people. It also goes both ways though. I've grouped with some sucky jp's that did the same thing above so its a person's nature not culture. You have you a hole Americans, Europians, Japanese, and whatever country players. Then you have your cool people from each culture that listens, plays well with others, and so on.
At first grouping with Japanese parties was hard as a player. But when they put in the translator text it made it much easier.
At launch the Japanese didn't want much to do with Westerners and for good reason. A lot of Westerners were coming off of games like Diablo, Tribe, Unreal Tournament, DAOC and "I'll pwn your face!" games. The Japanese did everything for group, as is their culture. Americans came in rather pushy and demanded that Japanese "speak English" and all other sorts of silly things on a Japanese game. Japanese also were more into Beastmasters and it took awhile for Westerners to understand how good a character they were.
When I had a day to burn on a Saturday, some of the best exp I ever had was with the Japanese. They talked very little (no one used Vent then) except for emotes like ") >.<
and stuff like that. But when it came down to grouping, you could guarantee it was like a well oiled machine with few people trying to be a "hero". You also knew you were going to be grouping for hours... not just 1 hour and "Hey guys, I gotta go and do homework my Mom said. Take care!" The first real session I ever had gaming was with a Japanese group that was so good, I didn't want to log off. It was about 6 hours straight with a few breaks but mainly just cranking out levels.
A lot of Americans were so ignorant, they used to confuse Japanese players with Chinese goldfarmers routinely and it was embarrassing. They'd see characters and being ignorant, think "Chinese" and then start with the insults about "playing their own game", which again used to make me laugh at the stupidity of the statement, but also cringe as a person who routinely partied with Japanese.
I have a feeling that now that FF isn't really a secret and they are trying to make the game more "solo friendly", we are going to see a lot more of those morons in FFXIV unfortunately. Before you could shut those guys out and you knew they'd quit when no one would group with them because their reputation was ruined, and in a heavy group grind game like that it was death. If this is so solo friendly that they can now just max any class to level easily for the "jumping/pvp" crowd, I don't see good things.
"TO MICHAEL!"
@ Svann
I apologize for calling you stupid.
But you must understand, it gets irratating when a bunch of people tell you why its called 'turn-based', and you ignore it and keep arguing...
when the developers already said: "The combat will be similar to that of FFXI" and we have actual, in-game footage of the combat.
It's hard for me to understand why there is still an arguement over what 'turnbased' means. It's pretty clear if you watch the footage. It just seemed like you were purposely trying to make negative arguements about the game, and that makes me think you don't like the game and are trolling.
My thoughts are pretty clear, as everyone has backed me up.
So please accept the fact that it is 'turnbased' and that it will be similar to that of FFXI, and that there is indeed gameplay footage out there and no need for this thread.
Sorry Svann, I would have been on the fence about you being a troll or not but then I remembered you wrote this in a previous thread about jumping:
"You guys keep saying how the FF playerbase is so mature but yet you think that if there is jumping it will be abused. Sounds like what you really think is that FF playerbase is just as immature as wow's."
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/forums/thread/249934/page/7
So on more than one occasion you have made comments about the FF community being immature.
I don't know why you have a chip on your soldier against the FF playerbase/community but to be honest, I really don't care.
But yes, you certainly appear to be a troll.
I dont have anything against the FF community. I do think that when people say "we are better than wow community" it is a bit obnoxious. From what I see mmo communities are pretty much the same everywhere you go. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. If you would like to prove me wrong, dont be accepting/supporting of immature behaviors in the community. Stuff like shouting down people with alternate opinions for instance, and trying to imply that there is no room for any opinions except the majority opinions from the FF11 community - which is a completely different game btw. And applying labels (stupid, troll) in an attempt to shut people up. If it helps, Im sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess I did try to tweek your feathers in an attempt to make you think and that was technically dishonest. Im not perfect. I wouldnt think Im a troll though.
Turn based is ok for console games but i dont think i would be up for it in an MMO that is 3-D. I dont think that the idea is so bad for a browser game but thats about it.
Oh, well why didnt you say so before? If devs said that it would be like FF11 then that answers the question for sure. The last I read from devs they said that it would be unlike any other mmo, which I assumed also meant unlike FF11. Do you have a link to confirm that the devs said this?
I dont have anything against the FF community. I do think that when people say "we are better than wow community" it is a bit obnoxious. From what I see mmo communities are pretty much the same everywhere you go. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. If you would like to prove me wrong, dont be accepting/supporting of immature behaviors in the community. Stuff like shouting down people with alternate opinions for instance, and trying to imply that there is no room for any opinions except the majority opinions from the FF11 community - which is a completely different game btw. And applying labels (stupid, troll) in an attempt to shut people up. If it helps, Im sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess I did try to tweek your feathers in an attempt to make you think and that was technically dishonest. Im not perfect. I wouldnt think Im a troll though.
Did you consider that people may feel your posts are the ones that are immature? And when people don't accept/support your posts (as you suggested above) you say you are shouted down...
There is a difference between having a different opinion and acting trollish. I am sorry you do not see the difference.
Example 1:
When you feel one person insulted you and you correct them or state your case, that is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
When you feel one person insulted you and you say "I see how immature the FF community is", that is trollish
Example 2:
Saying "I would like jumping in the game" and explaining why is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
Saying "I guess the FF community is immature if they can't have jumping in the game" is trollish
As much as you may want to believe it, nobody is calling you a troll for having a different opinion. They are calling you a troll for the way you choose to carry yourself.
I honestly hope this helps you in the future.
I dont have anything against the FF community. I do think that when people say "we are better than wow community" it is a bit obnoxious. From what I see mmo communities are pretty much the same everywhere you go. I could be wrong, but I dont think so. If you would like to prove me wrong, dont be accepting/supporting of immature behaviors in the community. Stuff like shouting down people with alternate opinions for instance, and trying to imply that there is no room for any opinions except the majority opinions from the FF11 community - which is a completely different game btw. And applying labels (stupid, troll) in an attempt to shut people up. If it helps, Im sorry if I hurt your feelings. I guess I did try to tweek your feathers in an attempt to make you think and that was technically dishonest. Im not perfect. I wouldnt think Im a troll though.
Did you consider that people may feel your posts are the ones that are immature? And when people don't accept/support your posts (as you suggested above) you say you are shouted down...
There is a difference between having a different opinion and acting trollish. I am sorry you do not see the difference.
Example 1:
When you feel one person insulted you and you correct them or state your case, that is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
When you feel one person insulted you and you say "I see how immature the FF community is", that is trollish
Example 2:
Saying "I would like jumping in the game" and explaining why is a difference of opinion and is totally fine.
Saying "I guess the FF community is immature if they can't have jumping in the game" is trollish
As much as you may want to believe it, nobody is calling you a troll for having a different opinion. They are calling you a troll for the way you choose to carry yourself.
I honestly hope this helps you in the future.
Example 1: Ok, your right. I should not have tarred a community based on 1 or even 2 posters. Apologies to all.
Example 2: Thats not what I said. I didnt say FF was immature. I said that if people think the community will abuse jumping then THEY must think the community is immature. I accept that its a debatable point. But I did not say what you think I said.
Here's your sources, so everyone can see what they mean by 'Turn-based' and we can end this thread.
Source 1: Peeler Interview (Where this freaken question got started, it says it in the same article)
"It will be a number set like most MMOS, but there are some key differences. The game is going to have an attack bar similar to other final fantasy games."
Source 2: E3 Interview - Komoto & Tanaka
"we believe that the combat system in FF14 will be different then that of FF11, that it will be closer to that 'real time' battle"
Source 3: I didn't find the source but the quote was something along the lines of:
"The timing between attacks will be similar to that of FFXI"
Thanks for the info. That supports my earlier hunch.
Based on this, I'm pretty sure they will be using a system similar to the ATB system that started in FFIV and has been in most FF games since. So no, stalling your attack will not help you as someone previously suggested. The enemy will be able to attack every time their ATB bar is full whether you attacked or not.
And yes, there is even a wikipedia article that discusses the ATB system:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Time_Battle#Parties_and_battles
"Hiroyuki Ito introduced the "Active Time Battle System" in Final Fantasy IV,[1] where the time-keeping system does not stop.[8]"
"On the battle screen, each character has an ATB meter that gradually fills, and the player is allowed to issue a command to that character once the meter is full.[9] The fact that enemies can attack or be attacked at any time is credited with injecting urgency and excitement into the combat system.[8] This remained the norm until Final Fantasy X implemented a Conditional Turn-Based system, which slowed gameplay while making it important for the right characters to square off against the right monsters."
The article also states that FFXI used a real time system with the auto attack feature but my understanding is they may be taking the auto-attack system out of FFXIV and just leaving the ATB system like most of the classic FF games had. I, for one, am really looking forward to a FF MMO that resembles the days of old... okay, I'll stop now... I'm getting too nostalgic.
Edit: Oh, and for the record, I think it will be similar to the version where you can stall your attack and keep your bar full until you issue an attack (as opposed to queing attacks that automatically go off when your bar fills). When you select your attack/ability, the bar will empty and begin to refill again. I admit this may make for a bit more slow paced fighting but I am ready for something new in an MMO and this could also lead to more strategy being involved.
I also think that some classes' bars will fill faster than others and/or a stat will add to how fast the bar fills up. Classic FF spells like "Haste" or "Slow" should also effect how fast or slow the bar fills up.
This is all speculation of course.