Head start is practically the launch. There were 400k~ people that preordered, and you can bet a majority of them (The smart people that got the game digitally) tried to log in and get ingame.
If you weren't a narrow-minded dipshit you'd realize they had to do this to prevent servers crashes for hours, if not days.
Where are all the intelligent and logical thinking people? I rarely find them on the internet anymore.
Logic and intelligence, hmm...try this: 1+1 = 2
NCSoft had a problem figure this out before launch.
400.000 = 400.000
That was also too hard.
When queues are 8 hours+ or so bad you aren't even placed in a queue, the servers pretty much are *crashed*.
They have too few servers up. THAT is logical thinking. Can I live with that? Yes, I guess they will fix this in some days, perhaps a week, np. There will.. however, be much harder to patch the besserwissers blinded by fanboism...
Here is what makes NCSoft retarded. 400k pre-orders. 10 initial servers to house those 400k pre-orders. Thats 40k people per server. They need atleast 4 times the amount of servers to consider the above scenario.
You're working on the assumption that there is data to support that the majority of people who preorder an MMO will log into the headstart. NCSoft has the numbers on how many will usually do that. Most devs do and, surprisingly, most MMOs either have massive lag or ques during the initial release.
Maybe... just maybe... they're working off data and you're working off... well... what the hell are you basing your contention on?
I am basing my contention that no mmo today can host 20k simultaneous people on 1 server, AION servers are probably designed for the common 4k per server. You should expect 60% of the people who pre-ordered to try and log in on day 1. Also I don't trust NCWest data on server loads. Have you ever tried to get anything through NCWest, its a mess.
I am basing the fact that they are retarded because they have been in this business so long, yet didn't know something so fundamental that there are going to be alot of people trying to log in on day one, or their servers cannot hold 40k simultaneous connections. C'mon you have to be dense to think that.
I also say they are dense because they should know what an mmo publishing business means. It means they give the players a playing experience at all times even if it means they have to merge later on.
I was able to log in very fast....but still the server I preselected was full. At that time 2 other server had Low population so I created a char there and played. Works for me, but ofc most of all I would like to be on my preselected server.
Originally posted by LynxJSA Originally posted by Cleffy Here is what makes NCSoft retarded. 400k pre-orders. 10 initial servers to house those 400k pre-orders. Thats 40k people per server. They need atleast 4 times the amount of servers to consider the above scenario.
You're working on the assumption that there is data to support that the majority of people who preorder an MMO will log into the headstart. NCSoft has the numbers on how many will usually do that. Most devs do and, surprisingly, most MMOs either have massive lag or ques during the initial release. Maybe... just maybe... they're working off data and you're working off... well... what the hell are you basing your contention on?
You think the majority of people that preorder an MMO would NOT log into the headstart?
Cleffy is probably working off the knowledge that in every previous headstart allowed to preorders, the majority of people logged into that headstart.
That is just a guess though.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I love how everyone assumes that they know just how many people can be handled per server, especially when they're spouting numbers from games that are running on older technologies, and without knowing anything about the hardware being used.
Head start is practically the launch. There were 400k~ people that preordered, and you can bet a majority of them (The smart people that got the game digitally) tried to log in and get ingame.
If you weren't a narrow-minded dipshit you'd realize they had to do this to prevent servers crashes for hours, if not days.
Where are all the intelligent and logical thinking people? I rarely find them on the internet anymore.
Logic and intelligence, hmm...try this: 1+1 = 2
NCSoft had a problem figure this out before launch.
400.000 = 400.000
That was also too hard.
When queues are 8 hours+ or so bad you aren't even placed in a queue, the servers pretty much are *crashed*.
They have too few servers up. THAT is logical thinking. Can I live with that? Yes, I guess they will fix this in some days, perhaps a week, np. There will.. however, be much harder to patch the besserwissers blinded by fanboism...
Its almost like theyre assuming that only 3/4 of those who pre-ordered will stay with the game past a month. Therefore, they're keeping the number of servers down and trying to pack each server with as many subscribers as possible. Otherwise, you end up with what happened to Warhammer Online. Adding additional servers at launch/pre-launch and then merging them a month later.
did you guys ever think theyre smarter than you?
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Head start is practically the launch. There were 400k~ people that preordered, and you can bet a majority of them (The smart people that got the game digitally) tried to log in and get ingame.
If you weren't a narrow-minded dipshit you'd realize they had to do this to prevent servers crashes for hours, if not days.
Where are all the intelligent and logical thinking people? I rarely find them on the internet anymore.
Logic and intelligence, hmm...try this: 1+1 = 2
NCSoft had a problem figure this out before launch.
400.000 = 400.000
That was also too hard.
When queues are 8 hours+ or so bad you aren't even placed in a queue, the servers pretty much are *crashed*.
They have too few servers up. THAT is logical thinking. Can I live with that? Yes, I guess they will fix this in some days, perhaps a week, np. There will.. however, be much harder to patch the besserwissers blinded by fanboism...
Its almost like theyre assuming that only 3/4 of those who pre-ordered will stay with the game past a month. Therefore, they're keeping the number of servers down and trying to pack each server with as many subscribers as possible. Otherwise, you end up with what happened to Warhammer Online. Adding additional servers at launch/pre-launch and then merging them a month later.
did you guys ever think theyre smarter than you?
Or did you think that the people whining are making the problem out to be far worse than it is?
I can log instantly into 3 servers that I have characters on already. I just got instantly into Marchutan, on which I had no characters. Another server has a 28 minute wait right now, and I haven't checked all of them. Worst wait right now is about 2.5 hours, but there are other servers for those who really want to play.
Weren't there 12 servers for EU and another 12 servers for NA?
Sort of, but still not enough also eu servers are split down to 5 english speaking, 4 german and 3 french, and to be honest even not all germans or french want to play there own language speaking servers some like to play english speaking to mix with a bigger crowd, but ncsoft have taken nothing into account not even the amount they have sold to server limits, i mean 5 english speaking eu servers in no where near enough and thats why they 7hr waits, sorry but for me its a total fail.........
*edit*
Usa sounds better, as said above no waiting for some servers, so like always its us in the eu getting shafted
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Weren't there 12 servers for EU and another 12 servers for NA?
Sort of, but still not enough also eu servers are split down to 5 english speaking, 4 german and 3 french, and to be honest even not all germans or french want to play there own language speaking servers some like to play english speaking to mix with a bigger crowd, but ncsoft have taken nothing into account not even the amount they have sold to server limits, i mean 5 english speaking eu servers in no where near enough and thats why they 7hr waits, sorry but for me its a total fail.........
That I don't know but I'm hoping to be able to join in one of the english europe servers tomorrow when the client finishes from downloading.
Queues are necessary, yes. Servers will always have limits. But everything has a limit... customer patience too. Queues are necessary and understandable but when a queue is longer than an hour the queue is just a way to tell the customer: sorry, you wont play.
Thousands of customers can use what they bought right now. Other thousands cant.
The most amazing thing for me is that this was predictable and they could had use maths to ensure enough server to deal with headstart. Yes, maybe after release it would had been a pain and the queues would had get worst but at headstart they could had manage so the queues where just a few minutes.
After almost 5 hours after launch (and this is launch because a head start is a launch for selected customers. In this case, preorder) the queues are still in some servers longer than 1 hour. There are servers with 2k or more people queued.
Call it as youa ll want, speak of the long term, say whatever you want. But the truth is that many people preorder this game and in the list of benefits for giving the money before it was included a head start which they are not enjoying. If a company can not provide the service they are selling, they should not sell it.
WAR's sin was opening too many servers and being too slowly in the merging of them after release (if they had been faster, the problem may not had exist). Aion's sin had been opening too few servers. Both were huge mistakes.
I still have no idea how a MMO company can do a succesful lunch (queue wise) but for sure NC soft did not a good job. As I said any queue longer than 1 hour (or whatever length of time you want to consider) is not a queue but a denial of service.
I repeat that all this is my opinion. I am sure there are many people that think that a queue with more than 3k (like in the original post of this thread) is ok but I think its a HUGE mistake.
Imho... Queues are necessary, yes. Servers will always have limits. But everything has a limit... customer patience too. Queues are necessary and understandable but when a queue is longer than an hour the queue is just a way to tell the customer: sorry, you wont play. Thousands of customers can use what they bought right now. The most amazing thing for me is that this was predictable and they could had use maths to ensure enough server to deal with headstart. Yes, maybe after release it would had been a pain and the queues would had get worst but at headstart they could had manage so the queues where just a few minutes. After almost 5 hours after launch (and this is launch because a head start is a launch for selected customers. In this case, preorder) the queues are still in some servers longer than 1 hour. There are servers with 2k or more people queued. Call it as youa ll want, speak of the long term, say whatever you want. But the truth is that many people preorder this game and in the list of benefits for giving the money before it was included a head start which they are not enjoying. If a company can not provide the service they are selling, they should not sell it. WAR's sin was opening too many servers and being too slowly in the merging of them after release (if they had been faster, the problem may not had exist). Aion's sin had been opening too few servers. Both were huge mistakes. I still have no idea how a MMO company can do a succesful lunch (queue wise) but for sure NC soft did not a good job. As I said any queue longer than 1 hour (or whatever length of time you want to consider) is not a queue but a denial of service. I repeat that all this is my opinion. I am sure there are many people that think that a queue with more than 3k (like in the original post of this thread) is ok but I think its a HUGE mistake.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
Imho... Queues are necessary, yes. Servers will always have limits. But everything has a limit... customer patience too. Queues are necessary and understandable but when a queue is longer than an hour the queue is just a way to tell the customer: sorry, you wont play. Thousands of customers can use what they bought right now. Other thousands cant. The most amazing thing for me is that this was predictable and they could had use maths to ensure enough server to deal with headstart. Yes, maybe after release it would had been a pain and the queues would had get worst but at headstart they could had manage so the queues where just a few minutes. After almost 5 hours after launch (and this is launch because a head start is a launch for selected customers. In this case, preorder) the queues are still in some servers longer than 1 hour. There are servers with 2k or more people queued. Call it as youa ll want, speak of the long term, say whatever you want. But the truth is that many people preorder this game and in the list of benefits for giving the money before it was included a head start which they are not enjoying. If a company can not provide the service they are selling, they should not sell it. WAR's sin was opening too many servers and being too slowly in the merging of them after release (if they had been faster, the problem may not had exist). Aion's sin had been opening too few servers. Both were huge mistakes. I still have no idea how a MMO company can do a succesful lunch (queue wise) but for sure NC soft did not a good job. As I said any queue longer than 1 hour (or whatever length of time you want to consider) is not a queue but a denial of service. I repeat that all this is my opinion. I am sure there are many people that think that a queue with more than 3k (like in the original post of this thread) is ok but I think its a HUGE mistake.
But the problem is that those 2k your saying want to enter X server only and don't bother checking other servers. In another thread madeux said that there are servers with no queues or some with 30min queue still those 2k want to enter in that particular server, see the problem?
That is not a response, that is spin. No matter how you spin it the record number of pre orders customers they have been bragging about are now a record of customers who bought access but are getting 6 hour queues. No matter how they try to spin it this is a big fail, and likely to get far worse before it gets any better.
But if I am wrong, NCsoft can change their advertising to say something like 'join record numbers of pre orders customers in waiting 5 or 6+ hours in queues'. Of course, they won't do that because if people knew they would so mishandle the launch they would not have preordered and not buy the game for launch plain and simple.
Hey AS, long time no see. ^^ I suspect its a compromise between the tech types and the bean counters. The tech types know exactly how many resources(hardware/bandwidth) are required for a given population. The bean counters look at that number and shudder, and howl to management about the quarterly report and investor panic. Balancing spike(early start and launch) loads is different than one is likely to see again(at least until an expansion or some such). Its not a decision for the faint hearted. If you have too few resources, you end up with lines 6-8 hours long(like Aion is seeing) If you use too many, you blow your profit model, and after the first two months may end up with entire realms with low populations(leading to merges and rumors that panic investors). NCsoft looks like they came down on the too few side at the moment. Only time will tell what the consequences will be.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
Oh the why they dont go to another server explanation? I hear that a lot in MMO launches too.
Well, imho, NC Soft and you don't understand MMO players then. It's not just create a toon in another server. Guilds and group of friends choose a server and create a toon in them. One single guy wont move alone... their friends are in that server. And the guild entire wont move because some of the members are queued for eternity because nothing ensure in the other server wont happen too.
And guilds are interlinked too and they decide to play in a server where known players are... even enemies coordinate their existance so we can kill each other.
I do guess lonewolves can quickly change servers (if they have no friends at all in there).
But actually NC Soft did try to understand the behaivour of their customers when they set servers with languages... or, officially, posted some servers where were some kind of players went to (WEST/EST, RP, etc).
They could had used the preselection to minimize this problem and I think they did (when they locked servers).... at least they tried... they failed, imho.
So that explanation on why they dont go to play in another server doesnt apply always because players behave in certain ways that prevent them to move to another server. I can't explain it better... you will have to have friends so you can understand/
I am not saying you are wrong... I am answering my opinion on why players cant and should NOT move to another server. Maybe is not NC Soft's fault of not knowing how a part of their customers behave... maybe it's the fault of bad customers... it's obviously OUR fault for having friends and wanting to play with them.
Its not a big deal, we all know the queues wont be a problem in some weeks... its just for the lunch. But still was a huge mistake from them... people are having problems to access the service they bought. Again this is all my opinion. And obviously there are some defenders for the company in question... so... each one believe whatever he/she wants and so we are all happy with our own opinions.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
Oh the why they dont go to another server explanation? I hear that a lot in MMO launches too.
Well, imho, NC Soft and you don't understand MMO players then. It's not just create a toon in another server. Guilds and group of friends choose a server and create a toon in them. One single guy wont move alone... their friends are in that server. And the guild entire wont move because some of the members are queued for eternity because nothing ensure in the other server wont happen too.
And guilds are interlinked too and they decide to play in a server where known players are... even enemies coordinate their existance so we can kill each other.
I do guess lonewolves can quickly change servers (if they have no friends at all in there).
But actually NC Soft did try to understand the behaivour of their customers when they set servers with languages... or, officially, posted some servers where were some kind of players went to (WEST/EST, RP, etc).
They could had used the preselection to minimize this problem and I think they did (when they locked servers).... at least they tried... they failed, imho.
So that explanation on why they dont go to play in another server doesnt apply always because players behave in certain ways that prevent them to move to another server. I can't explain it better... you will have to have friends so you can understand/
I am not saying you are wrong... I am answering my opinion on why players cant and should NOT move to another server. Maybe is not NC Soft's fault of not knowing how a part of their customers behave... maybe it's the fault of bad customers... it's obviously OUR fault for having friends and wanting to play with them.
Its not a big deal, we all know the queues wont be a problem in some weeks... its just for the lunch. But still was a huge mistake from them... people are having problems to access the service they bought. Again this is all my opinion. And obviously there are some defenders for the company in question... so... each one believe whatever he/she wants and so we are all happy with our own opinions.
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
Originally posted by Keeper2000Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Keeper2000
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
Are you accepting then there is a problem? And that long queues are a problem?
If you do, that is the first step to find a solution. I dont get paid to fix the problem in question. Denial the problem wont help.
Now the problem... I had checked several servers and ALL had queues... the lowest was 600 aprox. people queued. So if we will all discuss how to "fix" queues on MMO release, lets try to keep it factual and dont lie. You said there are servers with no queues... then in another thread you said there was one with half hour... decide.
Imho, right now there are servers with low queue but there are none with no queu in them.
Someone in this thread spoke about the trade off between resources and money (I think the person used the "bean counting" hehe). Can be that NC soft is lackign of resources?
I think the idea of cloning servers from Mythic was great... it did let network of people (guilds) to separate but... I think it was not well done... they did take too long to merge back servers when the queues started to dissapear (we all know the hsitory of that MMO).
Now, I am pretty sure if some of the people here posting got paid for working in a MMO company would spend the time necessary to think solutions. I dont believe in "there are no solutions for this problem".
When you said "Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to." do you mean customers that paid and cant use the service? I am sure they will be pissed. Dont take me wrong I am playing it. I think the game is good quality (maybe not the best MMO I ever played but, for example, its stable... good use of instance to do load balancing, lag is low considering the amount of people running all over, etc). But the queues are a mistake.
Can they open more Channels for example?
Can they clone server (a way of opening more Channels) and then merge in 2 weeks?
Can they buy better servers? Or the servers arent scalable in hardware? or wont make any difference?
Couldnt they locked the server more on the preselection?
Saying there are no solutions is problemic itself. Asking ME (one of the customers) for a solution is nice but I dont get paid for it. I have my opinions and I lack of information to find a solution. But I am sure again of one thing: customers bought something they are having problems to use.
Originally posted by Keeper2000Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by Keeper2000
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
Are you accepting then there is a problem? And that long queues are a problem?
If you do, that is the first step to find a solution. I dont get paid to fix the problem in question. Denial the problem wont help.
Now the problem... I had checked several servers and ALL had queues... the lowest was 600 aprox. people queued. So if we will all discuss how to "fix" queues on MMO release, lets try to keep it factual and dont lie. You said there are servers with no queues... then in another thread you said there was one with half hour... decide.
Imho, right now there are servers with low queue but there are none with no queu in them.
Someone in this thread spoke about the trade off between resources and money (I think the person used the "bean counting" hehe). Can be that NC soft is lackign of resources?
I think the idea of cloning servers from Mythic was great... it did let network of people (guilds) to separate but... I think it was not well done... they did take too long to merge back servers when the queues started to dissapear (we all know the hsitory of that MMO).
Now, I am pretty sure if some of the people here posting got paid for working in a MMO company would spend the time necessary to think solutions. I dont believe in "there are no solutions for this problem".
When you said "Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to." do you mean customers that paid and cant use the service? I am sure they will be pissed. Dont take me wrong I am playing it. I think the game is good quality (maybe not the best MMO I ever played but, for example, its stable... good use of instance to do load balancing, lag is low considering the amount of people running all over, etc). But the queues are a mistake.
Can they open more Channels for example?
Can they clone server (a way of opening more Channels) and then merge in 2 weeks?
Can they buy better servers? Or the servers arent scalable in hardware? or wont make any difference?
Couldnt they locked the server more on the preselection?
Saying there are no solutions is problemic itself. Asking ME (one of the customers) for a solution is nice but I dont get paid for it. I have my opinions and I lack of information to find a solution. But I am sure again of one thing: customers bought something they are having problems to use.
Every time I've checked I've been able to find a server open. I've never had to wait to log into a character that I have already created.
I just tried every server and they all had 2:58 to 3:12 queues.
I did that after I had my computer logged into my "pre-select" server for 2 hours and got dropped, now my server is down...
Just curious, Asmo or Ely? Everyone with queues is so pissed off right now its near impossible to get the answer to that question. Everyone I know who is logging Elyos has been pretty much low (<30 min) to no queue. I'm wondering if thats the same for everyone else.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I got this message for Ayase, and as you know, no launch can be perfect, however...as ayase says: I'm going to disagree with anyone who is saying that we've had a "bad launch". It's been fantastic. So many players logging in at once, and our servers are going strong. A separate matter is the one about queues. There are queues, yes, and the ones of the most popular servers are long. One of the easier decision any development team makes when developing a game is what user amount to optimize it for. Aion was designed to run good with low, medium or high amounts of players, but as with any game -- not too many at the same time. That doesn't make sense from any perspective. The game would then be designed to cater best to masses of people present only during sub-1% spike time spans of the game's live service, and during these initial rushes of players logging in the concurrency would skyrocket if we didn't put some type of limit on it. Our queues were implemented to nurture Aion's long-term health. We don't want to see a scenario where servers get beaten up, left shaking out of fear on the sidewalk, already during the first hour. We don't want to see a scenario where we put too many servers online resulting in a barren wastelands of empty worlds once the initial rush settles down. We're dynamic in the way we manage our servers, and we want to be open about this. If we see that queues are still long in a while, we'll look into opening up new servers; we'll look into tweaking maximum concurrency and maximum queue size limits. You will be able to log in - perhaps not right away - but the queues will settle down. I've played MMO's for a long time, just as many of you guys have, and I've witnessed queues before. I'm an Aion player just as you and I'm witnessing them now. I know how annoying it is to wait, but I've also come to understand the importance of the queues. They're there in the beginning to make sure that your server's got a large, healthy population mid- and long-term, and that's an investment I'm personally willing to make. (Source: http://www.aionsource.com/forum/1356447-post.html) So, please understand that Aion's launch is optimal, plz don't be mad, be patient and thankful.
having played WAR and been bounced off of 3 dead servers -- I can definitely appreciate this point.
Comments
Logic and intelligence, hmm...try this: 1+1 = 2
NCSoft had a problem figure this out before launch.
400.000 = 400.000
That was also too hard.
When queues are 8 hours+ or so bad you aren't even placed in a queue, the servers pretty much are *crashed*.
They have too few servers up. THAT is logical thinking. Can I live with that? Yes, I guess they will fix this in some days, perhaps a week, np. There will.. however, be much harder to patch the besserwissers blinded by fanboism...
You're working on the assumption that there is data to support that the majority of people who preorder an MMO will log into the headstart. NCSoft has the numbers on how many will usually do that. Most devs do and, surprisingly, most MMOs either have massive lag or ques during the initial release.
Maybe... just maybe... they're working off data and you're working off... well... what the hell are you basing your contention on?
I am basing my contention that no mmo today can host 20k simultaneous people on 1 server, AION servers are probably designed for the common 4k per server. You should expect 60% of the people who pre-ordered to try and log in on day 1. Also I don't trust NCWest data on server loads. Have you ever tried to get anything through NCWest, its a mess.
I am basing the fact that they are retarded because they have been in this business so long, yet didn't know something so fundamental that there are going to be alot of people trying to log in on day one, or their servers cannot hold 40k simultaneous connections. C'mon you have to be dense to think that.
I also say they are dense because they should know what an mmo publishing business means. It means they give the players a playing experience at all times even if it means they have to merge later on.
I was able to log in very fast....but still the server I preselected was full. At that time 2 other server had Low population so I created a char there and played. Works for me, but ofc most of all I would like to be on my preselected server.
Starter zones will relax over time. Now I don´t know, how it will work for the cities, when players of all levels meet there.
Weren't there 12 servers for EU and another 12 servers for NA?
You're working on the assumption that there is data to support that the majority of people who preorder an MMO will log into the headstart. NCSoft has the numbers on how many will usually do that. Most devs do and, surprisingly, most MMOs either have massive lag or ques during the initial release.
Maybe... just maybe... they're working off data and you're working off... well... what the hell are you basing your contention on?
You think the majority of people that preorder an MMO would NOT log into the headstart?
Cleffy is probably working off the knowledge that in every previous headstart allowed to preorders, the majority of people logged into that headstart.
That is just a guess though.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I love how everyone assumes that they know just how many people can be handled per server, especially when they're spouting numbers from games that are running on older technologies, and without knowing anything about the hardware being used.
The queues are there to make a "hourglass" effect, so ppl dont rush into the game in thousands at the same time, it doesnt mean the servers are full
Logic and intelligence, hmm...try this: 1+1 = 2
NCSoft had a problem figure this out before launch.
400.000 = 400.000
That was also too hard.
When queues are 8 hours+ or so bad you aren't even placed in a queue, the servers pretty much are *crashed*.
They have too few servers up. THAT is logical thinking. Can I live with that? Yes, I guess they will fix this in some days, perhaps a week, np. There will.. however, be much harder to patch the besserwissers blinded by fanboism...
Its almost like theyre assuming that only 3/4 of those who pre-ordered will stay with the game past a month. Therefore, they're keeping the number of servers down and trying to pack each server with as many subscribers as possible. Otherwise, you end up with what happened to Warhammer Online. Adding additional servers at launch/pre-launch and then merging them a month later.
did you guys ever think theyre smarter than you?
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Logic and intelligence, hmm...try this: 1+1 = 2
NCSoft had a problem figure this out before launch.
400.000 = 400.000
That was also too hard.
When queues are 8 hours+ or so bad you aren't even placed in a queue, the servers pretty much are *crashed*.
They have too few servers up. THAT is logical thinking. Can I live with that? Yes, I guess they will fix this in some days, perhaps a week, np. There will.. however, be much harder to patch the besserwissers blinded by fanboism...
Its almost like theyre assuming that only 3/4 of those who pre-ordered will stay with the game past a month. Therefore, they're keeping the number of servers down and trying to pack each server with as many subscribers as possible. Otherwise, you end up with what happened to Warhammer Online. Adding additional servers at launch/pre-launch and then merging them a month later.
did you guys ever think theyre smarter than you?
Or did you think that the people whining are making the problem out to be far worse than it is?
I can log instantly into 3 servers that I have characters on already. I just got instantly into Marchutan, on which I had no characters. Another server has a 28 minute wait right now, and I haven't checked all of them. Worst wait right now is about 2.5 hours, but there are other servers for those who really want to play.
Sort of, but still not enough also eu servers are split down to 5 english speaking, 4 german and 3 french, and to be honest even not all germans or french want to play there own language speaking servers some like to play english speaking to mix with a bigger crowd, but ncsoft have taken nothing into account not even the amount they have sold to server limits, i mean 5 english speaking eu servers in no where near enough and thats why they 7hr waits, sorry but for me its a total fail.........
*edit*
Usa sounds better, as said above no waiting for some servers, so like always its us in the eu getting shafted
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
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Sort of, but still not enough also eu servers are split down to 5 english speaking, 4 german and 3 french, and to be honest even not all germans or french want to play there own language speaking servers some like to play english speaking to mix with a bigger crowd, but ncsoft have taken nothing into account not even the amount they have sold to server limits, i mean 5 english speaking eu servers in no where near enough and thats why they 7hr waits, sorry but for me its a total fail.........
That I don't know but I'm hoping to be able to join in one of the english europe servers tomorrow when the client finishes from downloading.
Dear Cleffy,
That's an interesting fact that I was unaware of.
Signed,
EVE Online Player
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Imho...
Queues are necessary, yes. Servers will always have limits. But everything has a limit... customer patience too. Queues are necessary and understandable but when a queue is longer than an hour the queue is just a way to tell the customer: sorry, you wont play.
Thousands of customers can use what they bought right now. Other thousands cant.
The most amazing thing for me is that this was predictable and they could had use maths to ensure enough server to deal with headstart. Yes, maybe after release it would had been a pain and the queues would had get worst but at headstart they could had manage so the queues where just a few minutes.
After almost 5 hours after launch (and this is launch because a head start is a launch for selected customers. In this case, preorder) the queues are still in some servers longer than 1 hour. There are servers with 2k or more people queued.
Call it as youa ll want, speak of the long term, say whatever you want. But the truth is that many people preorder this game and in the list of benefits for giving the money before it was included a head start which they are not enjoying. If a company can not provide the service they are selling, they should not sell it.
WAR's sin was opening too many servers and being too slowly in the merging of them after release (if they had been faster, the problem may not had exist). Aion's sin had been opening too few servers. Both were huge mistakes.
I still have no idea how a MMO company can do a succesful lunch (queue wise) but for sure NC soft did not a good job. As I said any queue longer than 1 hour (or whatever length of time you want to consider) is not a queue but a denial of service.
I repeat that all this is my opinion. I am sure there are many people that think that a queue with more than 3k (like in the original post of this thread) is ok but I think its a HUGE mistake.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
But the problem is that those 2k your saying want to enter X server only and don't bother checking other servers. In another thread madeux said that there are servers with no queues or some with 30min queue still those 2k want to enter in that particular server, see the problem?
Hey AS, long time no see. ^^ I suspect its a compromise between the tech types and the bean counters. The tech types know exactly how many resources(hardware/bandwidth) are required for a given population. The bean counters look at that number and shudder, and howl to management about the quarterly report and investor panic. Balancing spike(early start and launch) loads is different than one is likely to see again(at least until an expansion or some such). Its not a decision for the faint hearted. If you have too few resources, you end up with lines 6-8 hours long(like Aion is seeing) If you use too many, you blow your profit model, and after the first two months may end up with entire realms with low populations(leading to merges and rumors that panic investors). NCsoft looks like they came down on the too few side at the moment. Only time will tell what the consequences will be.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
Oh the why they dont go to another server explanation? I hear that a lot in MMO launches too.
Well, imho, NC Soft and you don't understand MMO players then. It's not just create a toon in another server. Guilds and group of friends choose a server and create a toon in them. One single guy wont move alone... their friends are in that server. And the guild entire wont move because some of the members are queued for eternity because nothing ensure in the other server wont happen too.
And guilds are interlinked too and they decide to play in a server where known players are... even enemies coordinate their existance so we can kill each other.
I do guess lonewolves can quickly change servers (if they have no friends at all in there).
But actually NC Soft did try to understand the behaivour of their customers when they set servers with languages... or, officially, posted some servers where were some kind of players went to (WEST/EST, RP, etc).
They could had used the preselection to minimize this problem and I think they did (when they locked servers).... at least they tried... they failed, imho.
So that explanation on why they dont go to play in another server doesnt apply always because players behave in certain ways that prevent them to move to another server. I can't explain it better... you will have to have friends so you can understand/
I am not saying you are wrong... I am answering my opinion on why players cant and should NOT move to another server. Maybe is not NC Soft's fault of not knowing how a part of their customers behave... maybe it's the fault of bad customers... it's obviously OUR fault for having friends and wanting to play with them.
Its not a big deal, we all know the queues wont be a problem in some weeks... its just for the lunch. But still was a huge mistake from them... people are having problems to access the service they bought. Again this is all my opinion. And obviously there are some defenders for the company in question... so... each one believe whatever he/she wants and so we are all happy with our own opinions.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
Oh the why they dont go to another server explanation? I hear that a lot in MMO launches too.
Well, imho, NC Soft and you don't understand MMO players then. It's not just create a toon in another server. Guilds and group of friends choose a server and create a toon in them. One single guy wont move alone... their friends are in that server. And the guild entire wont move because some of the members are queued for eternity because nothing ensure in the other server wont happen too.
And guilds are interlinked too and they decide to play in a server where known players are... even enemies coordinate their existance so we can kill each other.
I do guess lonewolves can quickly change servers (if they have no friends at all in there).
But actually NC Soft did try to understand the behaivour of their customers when they set servers with languages... or, officially, posted some servers where were some kind of players went to (WEST/EST, RP, etc).
They could had used the preselection to minimize this problem and I think they did (when they locked servers).... at least they tried... they failed, imho.
So that explanation on why they dont go to play in another server doesnt apply always because players behave in certain ways that prevent them to move to another server. I can't explain it better... you will have to have friends so you can understand/
I am not saying you are wrong... I am answering my opinion on why players cant and should NOT move to another server. Maybe is not NC Soft's fault of not knowing how a part of their customers behave... maybe it's the fault of bad customers... it's obviously OUR fault for having friends and wanting to play with them.
Its not a big deal, we all know the queues wont be a problem in some weeks... its just for the lunch. But still was a huge mistake from them... people are having problems to access the service they bought. Again this is all my opinion. And obviously there are some defenders for the company in question... so... each one believe whatever he/she wants and so we are all happy with our own opinions.
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
Are you accepting then there is a problem? And that long queues are a problem?
If you do, that is the first step to find a solution. I dont get paid to fix the problem in question. Denial the problem wont help.
Now the problem... I had checked several servers and ALL had queues... the lowest was 600 aprox. people queued. So if we will all discuss how to "fix" queues on MMO release, lets try to keep it factual and dont lie. You said there are servers with no queues... then in another thread you said there was one with half hour... decide.
Imho, right now there are servers with low queue but there are none with no queu in them.
Someone in this thread spoke about the trade off between resources and money (I think the person used the "bean counting" hehe). Can be that NC soft is lackign of resources?
I think the idea of cloning servers from Mythic was great... it did let network of people (guilds) to separate but... I think it was not well done... they did take too long to merge back servers when the queues started to dissapear (we all know the hsitory of that MMO).
Now, I am pretty sure if some of the people here posting got paid for working in a MMO company would spend the time necessary to think solutions. I dont believe in "there are no solutions for this problem".
When you said "Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to." do you mean customers that paid and cant use the service? I am sure they will be pissed. Dont take me wrong I am playing it. I think the game is good quality (maybe not the best MMO I ever played but, for example, its stable... good use of instance to do load balancing, lag is low considering the amount of people running all over, etc). But the queues are a mistake.
Can they open more Channels for example?
Can they clone server (a way of opening more Channels) and then merge in 2 weeks?
Can they buy better servers? Or the servers arent scalable in hardware? or wont make any difference?
Couldnt they locked the server more on the preselection?
Saying there are no solutions is problemic itself. Asking ME (one of the customers) for a solution is nice but I dont get paid for it. I have my opinions and I lack of information to find a solution. But I am sure again of one thing: customers bought something they are having problems to use.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
Are you accepting then there is a problem? And that long queues are a problem?
If you do, that is the first step to find a solution. I dont get paid to fix the problem in question. Denial the problem wont help.
Now the problem... I had checked several servers and ALL had queues... the lowest was 600 aprox. people queued. So if we will all discuss how to "fix" queues on MMO release, lets try to keep it factual and dont lie. You said there are servers with no queues... then in another thread you said there was one with half hour... decide.
Imho, right now there are servers with low queue but there are none with no queu in them.
Someone in this thread spoke about the trade off between resources and money (I think the person used the "bean counting" hehe). Can be that NC soft is lackign of resources?
I think the idea of cloning servers from Mythic was great... it did let network of people (guilds) to separate but... I think it was not well done... they did take too long to merge back servers when the queues started to dissapear (we all know the hsitory of that MMO).
Now, I am pretty sure if some of the people here posting got paid for working in a MMO company would spend the time necessary to think solutions. I dont believe in "there are no solutions for this problem".
When you said "Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to." do you mean customers that paid and cant use the service? I am sure they will be pissed. Dont take me wrong I am playing it. I think the game is good quality (maybe not the best MMO I ever played but, for example, its stable... good use of instance to do load balancing, lag is low considering the amount of people running all over, etc). But the queues are a mistake.
Can they open more Channels for example?
Can they clone server (a way of opening more Channels) and then merge in 2 weeks?
Can they buy better servers? Or the servers arent scalable in hardware? or wont make any difference?
Couldnt they locked the server more on the preselection?
Saying there are no solutions is problemic itself. Asking ME (one of the customers) for a solution is nice but I dont get paid for it. I have my opinions and I lack of information to find a solution. But I am sure again of one thing: customers bought something they are having problems to use.
Every time I've checked I've been able to find a server open. I've never had to wait to log into a character that I have already created.
There is no problem. Just whiners.
But there are servers, right now, with no queue at all.... How is that NCSofts fault if everyone refuses to go to a less populated server?
What exactly would you like NCsoft to do? Magically create servers that can handle unlimited amounts of simultanious connections?
There are open servers out there. Aside from that, there's not a damn thing the company can do.
Some people are just determined to be upset, and they'll use whatever justification they have to.
Every time I've checked I've been able to find a server open. I've never had to wait to log into a character that I have already created.
There is no problem. Just whiners.
If there are no problems and just whiners, then you should not worry. All is fine. Nothing wrong here.
I just tried every server and they all had 2:58 to 3:12 queues.
I did that after I had my computer logged into my "pre-select" server for 2 hours and got dropped, now my server is down...
Just curious, Asmo or Ely? Everyone with queues is so pissed off right now its near impossible to get the answer to that question. Everyone I know who is logging Elyos has been pretty much low (<30 min) to no queue. I'm wondering if thats the same for everyone else.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
having played WAR and been bounced off of 3 dead servers -- I can definitely appreciate this point.