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It's time Craig...it's time. :(

It's time to go Craig.

It was a recently,” Blog Post," that really confirmed this fact to me.

Aoc board discussion: forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

Craig Morrison's Blog: usuallyfine.blogspot.com/2009/10/community-communicationbetween-rock-and.html

 

 

While exchanging forum PMs with a player last week we had an exchange I found very telling and interesting in terms of the challenges developers face when communicating with players. I had been commenting on some threads relating to the balance between PVE and PVP game play and additions and that both were valid. The player had told me 'You can't possibly tell me what I like or dislike most' and I replied explaining that I wasn't trying to do that at all, that I was just pointing out that there were different play styles out there and that we, as an MMO developer, had to try and balance the needs of many different play styles. (much in the way I have discussed it here before) to which he then replied - 'That's exactly the same thing no matter how you word it. You are still telling me I am wrong in my opinion.'

Now that is something I will never do. Someone's facts can be misinformed, incorrect and false, someone’s opinion is theirs to hold as they please...however the comment highlighted something that I have seen more and more over recent years and that is the way in which online communities seems to really zero in on absolutes.

It seems that it isn't ok to disagree anymore. If you don't share an opinion then you are wrong. We seem to be living in an age where people want to categorise things as black and white, right and wrong, you and me, that two different sides of an argument couldn't possibly share common ground.

Perhaps it is indicative of the type of partisan opinion divisions we see in our society, media and politics in many places in the world these days. It seems that for many it is the norm that if you don't agree with someone the best tactic is to attack them, insult them or perhaps question their genetic lineage. (and it's not like the internet needed another excuse for that kind of behaviour in the first place)

Personally I find it a great shame. In making games like ours there is no real 'right and wrong'. Different players have different tastes and as long as we are aiming to cater for several different playstyles with any given title we will have that balance to strike constantly, and that means that one side or the other won't always get their way, or be the priority for any given update to the game.

Rather than take it constructively however and accept that the game is home to many different gameplay preferences, there are many that seem to think the best way to argue for their opinion is to detract from the other opinion rather then to support their own, and whenever their particular interest isn't the focus to complain about the others being pointless because they don't personally share that preference.

This leads to you getting locked in a cycle of negative feedback. Trust me, the developers are keenly interested in actually getting good feedback on how to improve the area of the game you enjoy most. Feedback like that is important and a vital part of the development process, we are very interested on hearing your opinions about the parts of the game you use the most and have the most knowledge about.

Developers honestly aren't that interested in hearing you complain about a part of the game you already admit you don't take part in or that the latest update isn't solely focused on your preferences. They are even less interested in hearing you say that 'the developers don't care about us!' when they have just spend three of the last six months working hard on updates for your preferences, it's just not in the current update, and we both know that it will come around again and be a focus of a future update. Exaggerating and being aggressive might be the 'in thing' on the internet but it is honestly counter productive in this context.

If you speak to players about what they would most like to see from developers it is almost inevitably 'more communication' and that is something I strongly believe in. However much of the will and motivation for doing so can be drained by the behaviour like that described above. In many ways if the developer feels that they 'just can't win' on any given topic they are less likely to interact. They feel that way because rather than wanting to engage on the topics that can be discussed or when they want to ask questions they can find themselves on the defensive about things that shouldn't even need defending.

Acknowledging that there are different preferences out there, and they are all mostly valid, and some are even equal in importance to your own personal preferences is a great way to start. It really, honestly, genuinely, truthfully is ok to have a different opinion. We won't always agree, one side won't always be right, and the other won't always be wrong. Hell, we won't always make the right call as developers either, but we will always be making the calls with the best intentions of improving the game. The ability to discuss things constructively with the community helps us make the right call more often, so the more constructive people are, the better it is all around.

Developers genuinely do usually appreciate it when they can interact with people on a constructive and rational basis and creating the environment for that is in your hands far more than you maybe think it is!

You are always entitled to your opinion, and to share it, but doing so constructively will always lead to better debate. Actual debate about the merits, pros and cons of any system, feature or piece of content is far, far more valuable for us to read than any amount of bickering about who is 'right or wrong'.

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This is the sound of a defeated man. (By angry customers)

This is the sound of someone who can't make a decision.

This is the sound of a bunch of developers at the end of their rope.

It's time Craig...it's time.

It's defensive in nature, but I what find it lacking is the insight and attitude that AoC needs in this, "time of reckoning" that FC faces. Trust me guys...the person who is capable of turning AoC's position around...doesn't speak like this, because he wouldn't think along these lines. He would have more have a “Can-DO,” approach, he would also have an plan with everything prioritized. Craig does not.

It's been over one year since he became GD, and the company is currently getting hammered...and Craig decides to say” cool it guys" to his customers....that is what he has to say?....really? CRAIG should know what they do well. CRAIG should know what needs to be fixed. I have never got the sense that AoC's community was ever being cryptic about siege fixes, gear, and class balance...etc. This Blog entry shows exactly how out of touch Morrison is. He obviously doesn't have a Leadership bone in his body.

BTW Craig: 

It isnt the angry legions of people that demoralized your developers, it's the shit results from the poor directions that has lead to your, "cycle of negetive feedback.". Your devs are just reading YOUR report card. Sorry if they weren't gentle enough, or that they didn't praise your devlopers...boo hoo! That is the result of the game sucking-what did you expect...someone to send you flowers Sunshine?

You fans want AoC to turn around? Demand Craig Morrision's resignation immediately...it will be the quickest thing you can do to turn AoC around in the shortest amount of time. No doubt in my mind. Either Craig is holding FC back…or FC is holding Craig Morrison back--either way it’s time for a change.

Is been well over a year. He introduced the “murder system” which failed at worst, and is useless at best. Things are still broken from launch. Sieges have degraded in their quality. Classes are just as imbalanced as they were prior to his presence. The population has decreased. His performance level has been unacceptable and unfruitful. Patch 1.05 has been a car wreck…the faster you lose Craig….the better off AoC will be.

.....and where in the world is the CEO--and why is Morrison still there?

I can predict that the expansion will be an absolute DIASTER if FC doesn't lose Morrison ASAP! He hasn't yield any results and has hurt the game way more than he has helped it. Whether you are an ex player, a fan or a critic...i think we can agree...it's time for some new blood..

 

 

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Comments

  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775

    Seems to me like his critizisms hit a nerve in Blackwell, seeing as this is *exactly* how he argues.

    He is right, everybody else is wrong. He doesn't like it, therefore noone in their right mind can like it.

    CM has a number of valid points, as these forums tend to end up in "Yes men" and "No men", both sides being equally unproductive and retrenched, and both failing equally to provide decent feedback. I also agree with CM that it is something that has started permeating society, as we move from the (European) consensus oriented argumentation to (Anglo) confrontational argumentation.

  • VultureSkullVultureSkull Member UncommonPosts: 1,774

    I hold the opposite opinion to you, Mr Blackwell.

    I think Craig is the best thing that has happened to AoC and will continue to steer the game as he has done since joining, to more and greater success.

     

    I think to much eye service is being paid to the player in games anyway, so long as a game is heading in the general direction of what the mass of the players wants then that should suffice. It remains true that all games cannot appeal to all people. Or all aspects of a massive game can appeal to all it subscribers.

    The easist way as a player to show this is to vote with you wallet. If the game is so terrible then it will fail, if it is not then it will appeal to a niche group, or is it immensely successful then it will be called WoW!

     

  • FrobnerFrobner Member Posts: 649

    There is just one fact that ppl need to know.

    AOC launched half finished. 

    There you go - all of the problems can be related to that.  Be that half finished game - broken sieges - class unbalance - lacking features more than year after launch.

    The fact is that after a MMO releases - the changes that could be very drastic to improve basic systems and overall game, will have to be released very slowly.  YOu can not throw things out that turns the game on its head since that leads to ppl beeing angry and unhappy.   After all - THOSE are the custimors. 

    Basicly - the day that AOC launched was the day that ppl should have realsed what the future would bring.  AOC has still done something that no onther MMO has done so far - TOTALLY change basic RPG system - but the results are causing more unbalance - more unforsene problems - and quite abit of unhappy custimors that think other features should have gotten more attention.  And that is a valid argument - no matter what the CM says.

    But if ppl have spent their last year playing AOC then they have to realse its their own fault.  Most of us knew what was coming - and how much of a problem it would be to fix the huge issues that this game had in every single apartment.  DOnt blame the CM for you own stupidity.  

  • yodablazeyodablaze Member Posts: 234

    Blackwell99, at first I thought your comments were a bit hasty but after FULLY reading that blog, I can fully understand where you are coming from.

    I am a game developer and an avid gamer (I am NOT related to AoC in any way). I understand the frustrations of completing a game to your paying customer's satisfaction and then having to do updates, get hammered by your fans when your hard work is less than satisfactory etc. The very problem with this all, is that as a developer, you HAVE to listen to your customer's requests and respect them, not complain about it, even in a blog.

    Having fans and dealing with undermining trolls are very different. Fans obviously have an interest in your product and want to see it do better. That blog gave me chills and I never want to look upon it again as it was a little too "revealing."

    As far as those who have played and supported AoC, I would hope that some of you could extend a little patience when dealing with the slow progress with AoC. I also hope that there can be a little understanding for the hard work developers put into their games, even when they aren't doing the best job, they are people with real lives and real issues. This does not excuse Craig for his rather scorn opinions of his fans, it just reveals something here. You can help build the game or help destroy it.

    Hastily firing a lead developer and assuming there is someone better for the job can often open doors for a lesser experience individual that would do away with AoC for sure. Such decisions aren't as easy as you think. We all know that AoC has serious issues and those of us who played the game and liked it should agree that there are very good points about the game that can not be ignored.

    You can continue to add fuel to the fire until AoC's dev team blows themselves to oblivion, or rally some supportive words for the team and suggestions in a more productive manner as they seem stressed out as it is. I fear for the future of AoC and if fans want to see the game survive, the best thing to do is leave the devs alone. Back off from the game and see if they survive the cold season. You can offer some suggestions more constructively as it seems that a lot of developers are NOT avid gamers. If your words will just come out in anger and disgust, just leave the game for a while. You can come back when you start seeing some of the changes you want. I've been through this same mess with other games clan members and I have left and then come back to. As a developer, I empathize from the player's perspective but it's a lot harder to swallow from the devs perspective as you have a lot more at stake obviously.

     

  • AceundorAceundor Member Posts: 482

     I have no idea how Blackwell arrives at the conclusion that he does, it just proves CMs point that the community is black or white, I read it like a constructive open post from the GM where he discusses the game community in general. 

     

    Well, what really liked from the discussion was this entry by CM :

    Hopefully I don't come across as too defensive, and we are working hard on the content. I think the fundamentals of the challenges we now face are a little different and bring with them some different elements in the communication.

    You see, up until recently everyone was almost universally in agreement as to what needed addressed with the game most importantly. First everyone agreed on performance needing to improve and the memory leaks crushed, done. Then people agreed that the PVP of the game needed some basic direction, we addressed that. Then they agreed the content gaps needed addressed, hence Ymir's pass and new quests etc, then they almost all agreed we needed to do something we the RPG system, and that was done.

    Which leads us to now. Now that those basics have been addressed and we are in a more stable position people start to have different opinions about what is required. Some want more raids, some want more PVP systems, some want more group content, some want more solo content, some want more loot...and all of those concerns are completely valid, and all are acknowledged. What we can't do though is address them all at once, which means the new challenge is in communicating that in an environment where people are slightly more impatient and want more. It is ok to want more, but we do have to point out that things still need to be prioritised and that your favorite thing might not be 'next' but it will come.

     

    This means that all the launch problems (yes the game was launched half finished), have been adressed. Now its the standard "nerf rock, paper or sissor" discussion and "add more content im bored". Of course there are as many solutions that there are players to this. 

    Originally posted by BishopB:

    Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?

  • CrashloopCrashloop Member Posts: 885
    Originally posted by Blackwell99


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    This is the sound of a defeated man. (By angry customers)
    This is the sound of someone who can't make a decision.
    This is the sound of a bunch of developers at the end of their rope.
    It's time Craig...it's time.
    Oh really, didn't know that you were able to tell how people feel by reading just a blog, awesome, your now the first person in the world who can accurately tell how people are from a psychologial point of view! (sarcasm off)
    His blog was a refreshing read, finally a developer who dares fight back at the endless amounts of customers who thinks they are right. What he says is 100% spot on true, today if someone don't like a thing and others do, both parts are wrong according to the other part. Just look at these forums where people like yourself, and others keep posting things about a game you don't play. If someone says the opposite they always seem to be wrong, proof of this mentality is all over these forums too. If someone posts a post about how he like AoC, then at times he have been told by others here that "well I guess you don't want quality then" Comments like this happens more and more often. The fun part is that majority of the people here are just discussing their PERSONAL point of view, yet they defend their personal point of view with almost religious fanatism.

     
    It's defensive in nature, but I what find it lacking is the insight and attitude that AoC needs in this, "time of reckoning" that FC faces. Trust me guys...the person who is capable of turning AoC's position around...doesn't speak like this, because he wouldn't think along these lines. He would have more have a “Can-DO,” approach, he would also have an plan with everything prioritized. Craig does not.
    It's been over one year since he became GD, and the company is currently getting hammered...and Craig decides to say” cool it guys" to his customers....that is what he has to say?....really? CRAIG should know what they do well. CRAIG should know what needs to be fixed. I have never got the sense that AoC's community was ever being cryptic about siege fixes, gear, and class balance...etc. This Blog entry shows exactly how out of touch Morrison is. He obviously doesn't have a Leadership bone in his body.
    Craig is in my opinion spot on, todays forums are spammed with too much negativity, too much criticsm that isn't constructive, I'm all for people voicing their opinions and sharing their experience with a product. But when majority of negative posters are unable to stay constructive or actually try to help a company improve then these posters can imo go jump in lava for all I care. I remember when I started with MMO's in 2003 and the SWG forums. they were constructive, of course CU changed a bit of the behavior and NGE totally raped the behaviour for a time.


    Craig is one of the better things that could have happened to AoC. Gaute had good ideas, but he lacked the ability to push them through and stick with the idea and make it work. The long developement of AoC is to be blamed alot of Gaute who at times changed the entire core in the game with aboput 6 months time between. This was because he wasn't totally hapy with the result and wanted sometyhing better. This is a god thing to do, but not when it happens over and over. Craig had to take over AoC at the time when the game was dying, it was ridden with bug, lack of content and non working content. Today we see a game that have been improved a lot, it is by standards a polished game today compared to what it was at launch.
    We can argue that Craig should know what's needs to be fixed, but it is not his job to knowall that must be fixed. It's his job to make sure the game is fixed however, but to fix a game you first have to know the problems users have with the game. What craig feels is the best fix might not sit well with the players hence to fix a game you need the feedback from players who actually play the game daily and feels the issues closest. Developers work with the game daily, but they are most of the times not the ones who experiences the issues.
    BTW Craig: 
    It isnt the angry legions of people that demoralized your developers, it's the shit results from the poor directions that has lead to your, "cycle of negetive feedback.". Your devs are just reading YOUR report card. Sorry if they weren't gentle enough, or that they didn't praise your devlopers...boo hoo! That is the result of the game sucking-what did you expect...someone to send you flowers Sunshine?
    You fans want AoC to turn around? Demand Craig Morrision's resignation immediately...it will be the quickest thing you can do to turn AoC around in the shortest amount of time. No doubt in my mind. Either Craig is holding FC back…or FC is holding Craig Morrison back--either way it’s time for a change.
    And how would it turnaround the game that Craig leaves now? Changing game director isn't something that is done with the snap of a finger. Gaute wasn't replaced in september with just a day notice for Craig, Craig knew this most likely in June/july as the communications from Gaute seems to decrease at that time. What AoC is to develop in it's own pace and make content that is good. Everyone wants content fast, that is understandable. However a fast developement of content and quality might noty go hand in hand, unless you  can have several development teams working on different patches.
    Is been well over a year. He introduced the “murder system” which failed at worst, and is useless at best. Things are still broken from launch. Sieges have degraded in their quality. Classes are just as imbalanced as they were prior to his presence. The population has decreased. His performance level has been unacceptable and unfruitful. Patch 1.05 has been a car wreck…the faster you lose Craig….the better off AoC will be.
    Class balance is miles better then what it was, Patch 1.5 was a good patch, but it did not bring new content to the game. It was the last patch so to speak that fixed the remaining bits of all that was broken. Sieges are still fubar, that is true. The fact you think class balance is still as bad as it was tells me you either are full of assumptions and bs as certain other user who blocked me when I proved him wrong or that you simply haven't played the game for a long time. Craigs performance so far has been basicly fixing the game, the future patches will bring new content to the game and that is what will show if he can deliver quality or not.
    .....and where in the world is the CEO--and why is Morrison still there?
    I can predict that the expansion will be an absolute DIASTER if FC doesn't lose Morrison ASAP! He hasn't yield any results and has hurt the game way more than he has helped it. Whether you are an ex player, a fan or a critic...i think we can agree...it's time for some new blood..
    You can predict all you want, and new blood now would be bad as the work Craig and developers have done after he took over has been good, Yes the population has still kept falling, but that was not possible to avoid. That much was known when Gaute said they had 414K subscribers in August 2008, all players back then knew the truth deep inside that this number would fall a lot. A lot of the issues AoC had drove people away in masses and as we all know today games seldom gets a second chance. Lots of people tested the veteran comeback etc. Yet I wasn't expecting them to stick around because the game was still the same old, just in a polished state rather then buggy one. And when there isn't any new content etc most of these won't bother. I read a statistic some time ago that most companies when doing win back thinks that around 10-20% of the people who tries the veteran comeback deal will stick with the game. the rate of people whos tick with a game when they try it again is actually not big.
     Edited some words. :P
     
     

     

     

    Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
    On my radar: TSW, MO
    MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
    MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom

  • Greek_MattGreek_Matt Member Posts: 354

     Well, I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one who reads Morrison's text and sees a reasonable, sensible and well written argument. Sure it's not "I Have A Dream" but it's certainly not indicative of any kind of failure, weakness or whatever.

    Guess OP is just reading in what he wants to see...

  • CrashloopCrashloop Member Posts: 885
    Originally posted by Frobner


    There is just one fact that ppl need to know.
    AOC launched half finished. 
    This is 100% spot on. AoC was launched unfinished. No one can disagree here
    There you go - all of the problems can be related to that.  Be that half finished game - broken sieges - class unbalance - lacking features more than year after launch.
    The fact is that after a MMO releases - the changes that could be very drastic to improve basic systems and overall game, will have to be released very slowly.  YOu can not throw things out that turns the game on its head since that leads to ppl beeing angry and unhappy.   After all - THOSE are the custimors. 
    Again I agree 100%, after the release of a game you cannot change the game too fast and too drastic. If you want to have an eaxample of what can happen look at Star Wars Galaxies. CU arrived more or less unannounced. we all knew there would be a patch that changed the gameplay a bit, but not to the amount it did. Then suddenly we downloaded this new patch called NGE... Unannounced and a total change of the gameplay and the way the game worked. The histroy of SWG I think is well known among most of the MMO players even today.
    Basicly - the day that AOC launched was the day that ppl should have realsed what the future would bring.  AOC has still done something that no onther MMO has done so far - TOTALLY change basic RPG system - but the results are causing more unbalance - more unforsene problems - and quite abit of unhappy custimors that think other features should have gotten more attention.  And that is a valid argument - no matter what the CM says.
    I disagree to the point you say about rpg system making the game more unbalanced. The changes done to classe was a much needed thing as the balance before patch 1.5 was horrible. The balance today is not too nad, still some classes are better then other 1vs1 but that is always the case with class based games it seems like. Players will always feel that their preferred issues should be fixed first. When they were working on fixing class balance people wanted them to add more PvE, now that they work on PvE people the PvP players want more PvP content. It's impossible for a company to satisfy everyone at once. it simply isn't possible as everyone seems to want different things to be fixed first. The only thing they can do is make a list and prioritize the different things to fix first.
    But if ppl have spent their last year playing AOC then they have to realse its their own fault.  Most of us knew what was coming - and how much of a problem it would be to fix the huge issues that this game had in every single apartment.  DOnt blame the CM for you own stupidity.  
    I never thought I would see you write this, but you are 100% correct here. When I decided to stick with the game back in september 2008 I did know it would be abumpy ride. Stuff would take time to fix etc.

     

    Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
    On my radar: TSW, MO
    MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
    MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom

  • rutaqrutaq Member UncommonPosts: 428

    As a paying customer that plays Age of Conan, Craig's response was fine.

     The game has had some HUGE improvements since launch and is a much better game for it.  Sure I'd like to see more frequent updates and I can get impatient when they tease us with cool new things that take over 6 months to work through the test/dev cycle but I have to give them credit for the hard it took to get us where we are now.

    But the game is on the right course and I am happy that Craig took over and is being honest about not being able to add everything that everyone wants rather than promising everything and delivering nothing.  He was very straight forward and explained their development cycle and acknowledged the myriad of wants and concerns.  I don't see why he needs to have an unrealistic attitude that they can do everything for everyone by tomorrow. I think that the OP is being unrealsitic, heck look at some of the industry success story MMOs, they struggle with the very same complaints of being divided between, PvP, PvE, RP, Raids, etc....

     

    It is funny that in the MMO community people can be obsessed about games they don't like.  Like stalkers, they are stilll haunted by Age of Conan and I hope someday they will find peace and move on.   Age of Conan doesn't even remember them, she has new friends and new people to play with. The break up was awful but she moved on and even has a new Director.  She and Craig are happy together, I hope that maybe someday they can find that special game and settle down and level up a family of 80's.   :P

     

     

     

  • ThillianThillian Member UncommonPosts: 3,156

    I very much agree with the Craig's post. He was very exact about the main point of the post, so I don't understand OP's attempt to disqualify Craig for his opinion. I think even these boards here could pretty accurately serve as a proof for his statement. If you claim your opinion which is out of the box, the majority for some reason feel offended and try to insult your competency.

    REALITY CHECK

  • FuerchtegottFuerchtegott Member Posts: 79

    Blackwell is a very cunning gamer indeed.

    I think he is using reverse psychology here by quoting a rather honest, understandable, insightful and pedagogical blog by CM and adding supposedly his own outrageous views to it.

    This way, we all tend towards a more favorable position towards CM and AoC. I see where you go with this, my friend ;)

  • TheNinjaboyTheNinjaboy Member Posts: 243
    Originally posted by VultureSkull


    I hold the opposite opinion to you, Mr Blackwell.
    I think Craig is the best thing that has happened to AoC and will continue to steer the game as he has done since joining, to more and greater success.
     
     

     

    The vast majority of the base would agree with you VultureSkull.

    Craig has worked wonders on this game since Gaute got it way off track from launch until fall of last year.

     

    Considering what Craig had to work with when he first got the helm he's actually worked near miracles getting it to where it's at today.

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Thillian


    I very much agree with the Craig's post. He was very exact about the main point of the post, so I don't understand OP's attempt to disqualify Craig for his opinion. I think even these boards here could pretty accurately serve as a proof for his statement. If you claim your opinion which is out of the box, the majority for some reason feel offended and try to insult your competency.

    Could it be feelings of guilt, hmm? Almost as though he is pointing right at them and their actions? LOL.

    In seriousness, it does not surprise me one bit CM would say something along those lines at this point. People have to realize what they want is not always the best idea, or even doable. They also have to take into account what should be a priority and what should not be. Sometimes people also have to realize a game is simply not for them and move on. You should not expect them to change core game mechanics or their engine itself during live service. It boggles me I still see AOC brought up as much as I do and by so many. All with the same complaint: Instances!

    At some point Craig has to speak his mind and remind people he is not superman.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • LordBonezyLordBonezy Member Posts: 254

    Craig Morrison is resigned to live with AOC being a niche game, with the possibility of an expansion performing better. AOC, a game that has sold over 1.2+ million copies to date, having less than 100k active subscribers and slow but steadily attriting subscriber base in a dynamic and rapidly expanding market. 

    His blogging post is more a whine about his inability to lead the development team of 100 paid programmers, designers, artists, mixers, and whatever, to effectively communicate with the player base. Without that effective communication there can be no clear understanding of what the community values and what they need, and why they need particular improvements and new content in areas.  Without understanding of what they have, where they are at, what they need to get in the game and where they need to go, they are just taking stabs in the dark. Funcom and the AOC dev team is and never has been very good at development, or understanding the faults of their design, they are also very slow at improving. Add to that their reputation of being a terrible company nobody wants to support at this point really their only angle is that they deliver the best online MMO exprience. However they simply don't do that. 

    Craig baffled at times by the players and former players of which there are more than 1 million who have decided to part with the game or have a negative opinion of it, because of their implementation or lack thereof. Its also interesting that he doesn't understand why people think he's dense or stupid or an asshole because he can't understand why AOC isn't succeeding. They simply are not communicating effectively with their playerbase.

    Sieges, which were advertised as a hallmark, trademark, flagship feature, which at one time were reported to be battles of 300vs300 and were scaled down to 48vs48 and today crash about 2/3 of the time. Problem is today is 18 months removed from the launch of the game and they still are not fixed. Things have to work and work flawlessly in order for an exprience to be considered a success. These are critically important to AOCs survival, they have to work. They also need to kick ass and be meaningful. Player confidence in the ability of FC to fix critical or major issues of the game is pretty low, and that is constantly reinforced by the pace of development. Yeah we get that you guys can't shit the code out but seriously you want the community to be happy expecting 3 major updates a year? If not, why are you giving players updates at that pace?

    Their implementation strategy has been to update slow, and what they consider to be the "right" direction. Its very clear to me, very clear to tens of thousands of others who have been sitting on the fence waiting for a company to buy out FC or their CEO to remove CM and slot a leader with MANAGEMENT SKILLS into the role of game director, and it was clear to the hundred thousand or so of us who tried the free trial and quit immediately after, i.e. did not re-sub because so many of the same things that were lame were still lame in the game.

    VERY CLEAR THAT AOC NEEDS NEW LEADERSHIP AND NEW DIRECTIONS CRAIG!

    From the first week the Official forums have been around and the game live, the guild banks have had 50 slots, and every day of every week since launch for about 550+ days there remain 550 slots. It isn't that the players aren't telling you guys what they want, it is that you are slow to deliver and when we do get things asked for they aren't exactly what we had in mind, i.e. snow mammoth.

  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,188
    Originally posted by Greek_Matt


     Well, I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one who reads Morrison's text and sees a reasonable, sensible and well written argument. Sure it's not "I Have A Dream" but it's certainly not indicative of any kind of failure, weakness or whatever.
    Guess OP is just reading in what he wants to see...



     

    Majortiy of people have no issues with it. I am guessing that Blackwell decided to do his official forum grind to find something perceived back just to cross post here (I have no idea on agenda or why). Well it looks to have backfired. Even the topic title is extreme which is telling.

    The blog is wrote fine and puts across points in a logical fashion, something which the thoughts of a 'couple' of people can't seem to respond in kind back with. Notice how many time uses word 'constructive' in the whole blog. To be constructive you have I think to have reasonable approach first, this thread is not it.

    "Acknowledging that there are different preferences out there, and they are all mostly valid, and some are even equal in importance to your own personal preferences is a great way to start. It really, honestly, genuinely, truthfully is ok to have a different opinion. We won't always agree, one side won't always be right, and the other won't always be wrong. Hell, we won't always make the right call as developers either, but we will always be making the calls with the best intentions of improving the game. The ability to discuss things constructively with the community helps us make the right call more often, so the more constructive people are, the better it is all around.

    Developers genuinely do usually appreciate it when they can interact with people on a constructive and rational basis and creating the environment for that is in your hands far more than you maybe think it is!

    You are always entitled to your opinion, and to share it, but doing so constructively will always lead to better debate. Actual debate about the merits, pros and cons of any system, feature or piece of content is far, far more valuable for us to read than any amount of bickering about who is 'right or wrong'."

     



  • BarteauxBarteaux Member Posts: 483
    Originally posted by TheNinjaboy

    Originally posted by VultureSkull


    I hold the opposite opinion to you, Mr Blackwell.
    I think Craig is the best thing that has happened to AoC and will continue to steer the game as he has done since joining, to more and greater success.
     
     

     

    The vast majority of the base would agree with you VultureSkull.

    Craig has worked wonders on this game since Gaute got it way off track from launch until fall of last year.

     

    Considering what Craig had to work with when he first got the helm he's actually worked near miracles getting it to where it's at today.

     

     

    I have to agree, Morrison has taken this game in the right direction and also come a long way. Unless you prefer cartoonish games there's no better mmo out atm, at least in my opinion. Which leads me to my next point. No matter how good the game gets in someones view, others will still not like it.

    "nerf rock, paper is working as intended."

    - Scissors.


    Head Chop

  • godzilr1godzilr1 Member UncommonPosts: 550

    i agree with CM.  OP only seems to support CM's position by stating more absolutes and demands showing that he is a black/white guy.   unfortunately it seesm that is the way the internet is going, god bless the anonymous inexpensive tube connection.

  • Blackwell99Blackwell99 Member Posts: 352

     Well everyone can tell me how sweet he is. How delicious. You didn't need to though, I could gather that from his Blog-lol.

    But what you can't tell me is any reasonable contribution he has made to forward AoC's customer base. Because at the end of the day....that is what counts.

    Yes its Black or White

    Of course there was going to be the ol' Aoc had a lot of problems at launch.....

    and all the remarks that are stuffed full of ambiguity.

    You guys may buy into the whole, "it isn't black or white" argument...but I think it is VERY Black or White.

    Are sieges broke or do they work?

    Are subs increasing or decreasing?

    Are classes balanced or imbalanced?

    …you see Black or White.

    Best question:

    Is AoC better before Morrison or after? (be honest: Remember sieges were more playable prior to 1.05)

    These questions have clear answers. Don't let Craig suck you into this whole philosophical mind-set, of "its a mixed-bag." Because it's not.. There are some very clear answers.

    You see a lot of you are looking at this post in an incorrect way. It  isn’t about a “Nice-Guy” contest. It’s about “who-can-get-the-job-done” contest. Im sorry if you find this cold and nasty….but that’s how businesses work.



    Im sure Craig is a very nice guy, but you don't turn-games-around by being a "nice guy.'



    BOTTOMLINE: He hasn't made any contribution to the further the AoC brand. In fact, he has hurt the game with his ever-growing list of  failed ideas. Over a year is a VERY LONGTIME in MMOs. He can't show any positive results without a ridiculous amount of grasping.

    It's time for him to go. Lets get a guy in there with an action plan. Someone who can make things happen.. Someone who won’t embarrass an already embarrassed company with Emo blogs about how it hurts the development team’s feelings when they read negative remarks.

    Instead… how about a guy who writes, “here’s the problem…and here’s how we fix it….and here’s when it will be fixed,” that’s what you want in a GD.

    If  Craig is such a nice guy-he can have Famine's job  : )

  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775
    Originally posted by Blackwell99

     Yes its Black or White Like most things in life.. No. Not at all. When you start getting closer to 30 you'll see this.

    Of course there was going to be the ol' Aoc had a lot of problems at launch.....

    and all the remarks that are stuffed full of ambiguity. What ambiguity? Most people see the flaws and the positive aspects. It's called a balanced opinion.

    You guys may buy into the whole, "it isn't black or white" argument...but I think it is VERY Black or White. I have no doubt. I was sure the world was black and white. Then i turned 15...

    Are sieges broke or do they work? Mage free sieges run twice weekly on my servers. I guess gray.

    Are subs increasing or decreasing? Compared to..?

    Are classes balanced or imbalanced? PvE or PvP? 1v1 or 2v2 or 6v6 or 24v24? Healer vs dps, dps vs healer, tank vs dps.. etc..?

    …you see Black or White. Again. No. Just no.

    Best question:

    Is AoC better before Morrison or after? (be honest: Remember sieges were more playable prior to 1.05) CM came in beore 1.5. Are things better now than a year ago? Yes. Definately. Unless you have serious issues this is apparent. *All* games ar better after a year.

    These questions have clear answers. Don't let Craig suck you into this whole philosophical mind-set, of "its a mixed-bag." Because it's not.. There are some very clear answers. He is making a judgement based on his opinion based on his experience. As he explaines in his post, opinions are not facts. So no, wrong again.

    You see a lot of you are looking at this post in an incorrect way. It  isn’t about a “Nice-Guy” contest. It’s about “who-can-get-the-job-done” contest. Im sorry if you find this cold and nasty….but that’s how businesses work. Define "the job" and "get the job done" I am sure you have many, many years eperience as a game director and can therefore give him some valuable insight.



    Im sure Craig is a very nice guy, but you don't turn-games-around by being a "nice guy.'



    BOTTOMLINE: He hasn't made any contribution to the further the AoC brand. In fact, he has hurt the game with his ever-growing list of  failed ideas. Over a year is a VERY LONGTIME in MMOs. He can't show any positive results without a ridiculous amount of grasping. In essence: The game failed to be a WoW killer and it failed to please you, therefore everyone involved with the game is a failure? Damn, you EMO kids should learn "up the street, not across the road"..

    It's time for him to go. Lets get a guy in there with an action plan. Someone who can make things happen.. Someone who won’t embarrass an already embarrassed company with Emo blogs about how it hurts the development team’s feelings when they read negative remarks. It's not an Emo blog, it's an assessment based on many years experience. And blogs are only a FWIW.

    Instead… how about a guy who writes, “here’s the problem…and here’s how we fix it….and here’s when it will be fixed,” that’s what you want in a GD. That's what YOU, Blackwell,  want in a GD. I want a guy that's best for the game. Personally, I think CM is doing a very good job. Here is where we differ: That is my OPINION, and I don't claim it to be a fact, mostly because I have no experience as a GD. I would never write something as stupid as "that's what you want in a GD", and I accept that people disagree with me if they have more experience in the field.

    Seriously, your posts in this thread shows the level of your maturity.



     

  • SabradinSabradin Member Posts: 772
    Originally posted by Blackwell99


     Well everyone can tell me how sweet he is. How delicious. You didn't need to though, I could gather that from his Blog-lol.
    But what you can't tell me is any reasonable contribution he has made to forward AoC's customer base. Because at the end of the day....that is what counts.
    Yes its Black or White
    Of course there was going to be the ol' Aoc had a lot of problems at launch.....

    and all the remarks that are stuffed full of ambiguity.
    You guys may buy into the whole, "it isn't black or white" argument...but I think it is VERY Black or White.
    Are sieges broke or do they work?

    Are subs increasing or decreasing?

    Are classes balanced or imbalanced?
    …you see Black or White.
    Best question:
    Is AoC better before Morrison or after? (be honest: Remember sieges were more playable prior to 1.05)
    These questions have clear answers. Don't let Craig suck you into this whole philosophical mind-set, of "its a mixed-bag." Because it's not.. There are some very clear answers.
    You see a lot of you are looking at this post in an incorrect way. It  isn’t about a “Nice-Guy” contest. It’s about “who-can-get-the-job-done” contest. Im sorry if you find this cold and nasty….but that’s how businesses work.



    Im sure Craig is a very nice guy, but you don't turn-games-around by being a "nice guy.'


    BOTTOMLINE: He hasn't made any contribution to the further the AoC brand. In fact, he has hurt the game with his ever-growing list of  failed ideas. Over a year is a VERY LONGTIME in MMOs. He can't show any positive results without a ridiculous amount of grasping.
    It's time for him to go. Lets get a guy in there with an action plan. Someone who can make things happen.. Someone who won’t embarrass an already embarrassed company with Emo blogs about how it hurts the development team’s feelings when they read negative remarks.
    Instead… how about a guy who writes, “here’s the problem…and here’s how we fix it….and here’s when it will be fixed,” that’s what you want in a GD.
    If  Craig is such a nice guy-he can have Famine's job  : )



     

    Yeah I don't remember all but I think he was noted for communicating with the fan base often.

    Thats the CEO's fault.  They wanted someone to communicate apologetically with the fan base for obvious reasons (lying to them for months, taking their money and investors money, etc etc) instead of the ideal leader which you recognize.

    IMO they should have gotten somebody better and given EE's job to Craig.

    I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.

    Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.

  • VespersVespers Member Posts: 246


    Originally posted by VultureSkull
    I hold the opposite opinion to you, Mr Blackwell.
    I think Craig is the best thing that has happened to AoC and will continue to steer the game as he has done since joining, to more and greater success.
     
    I think to much eye service is being paid to the player in games anyway, so long as a game is heading in the general direction of what the mass of the players wants then that should suffice. It remains true that all games cannot appeal to all people. Or all aspects of a massive game can appeal to all it subscribers.
    The easist way as a player to show this is to vote with you wallet. If the game is so terrible then it will fail, if it is not then it will appeal to a niche group, or is it immensely successful then it will be called WoW!
     

    I agree and disagree with this.
    Yes, Craig has taken a game that was half developed at release over a year and a half ago and has gotten it to a point that it should have been for it's initial release. In that aspect, Craig has done what he was hired to do.

    However, Craig has not succeded in steering AOC to any success at all. In the MMO world, gaming companies measure success by the number of subs each game has. The subscriber rate has been at a continuous decline ever since the game's release.
    It doesnt matter if Mr Avery or Mr VultureSkull think AOC is a success and it doesnt matter if Mr Blackwell thinks AOC is a failure. It just matters what Funcom thinks of the game. If they think of it as a failure then they will cut funding/development and may even close it down. If they think it is a success then FC will allow AOC to remain open and continue to support the advancement of the game.

    MMORPGs are a business and if the AOC subscriber rate continues to decline then Funcom will, at best, put it on Life Support, like AO currently is.

    The last sentence from VultureSkull is 100% true. People will stop paying for a game that they no longer like to play or we will start to see new people adding their subscription fees along with the players who currently subscribe to the game.

  • AercusAercus Member UncommonPosts: 775
    Originally posted by Sabradin


    I said all along I think the socialism in the country was hurting the company... and last week I read that they just opened a place in Quebec to help the company deal with taxes? Nailed it.



     

    You have absolutely no clue what so ever, do you? There is a large difference between socialism and a social democracy.

     

  • LordBonezyLordBonezy Member Posts: 254

    The game is on a downward spiral. It is not stable or stablizing it is in a steady and slow decline. Each new MMO culls off a group of 2-5% of the player base and each month that passes about 1-2%.

    As for a finished game? Ha, 50 slot guild bank, same as day 1, content lacking at 80, broken sieges, DX10 in beta, hmmmm need a few more, guild renown system reputed  to have the same depth as the K:D ratio counter for PVP and the murder system which does anything but prevent ganking in the game.

    Yea they fixed the massive memory leaks, shit that should have never made it past beta, or in FC's case paid beta, but they had that accomplished a 3-6 months after launch, since then they've made cosmetic changes to their program but of substance there has been very little which appeals to player and gameplay if it was ever out of style has finally become the "in thing" to have in your game again. Depth and replayabiity are dependent on game play and mechanics which work and support the game as a whole rather than the slop we have in PVP and in inventory and in trade, economics, and the continous decline of server after server.

    Nope I predicted Doom at the instance of the free trials, and yea doom is coming for AOC. Won't be long now, X-mas push is coming soon but its already too late.

  • Blackwell99Blackwell99 Member Posts: 352
    Originally posted by Vespers


     

    Originally posted by VultureSkull

    I hold the opposite opinion to you, Mr Blackwell.

    I think Craig is the best thing that has happened to AoC and will continue to steer the game as he has done since joining, to more and greater success.

     

    I think to much eye service is being paid to the player in games anyway, so long as a game is heading in the general direction of what the mass of the players wants then that should suffice. It remains true that all games cannot appeal to all people. Or all aspects of a massive game can appeal to all it subscribers.

    The easist way as a player to show this is to vote with you wallet. If the game is so terrible then it will fail, if it is not then it will appeal to a niche group, or is it immensely successful then it will be called WoW!

     

     



    It doesnt matter if Mr Avery or Mr VultureSkull think AOC is a success and it doesnt matter if Mr Blackwell thinks AOC is a failure. It just matters what Funcom thinks of the game.



     It's like they say..."the numbers don't lie."

    Funcom can say that, "they feel good about the game," and "their player base has leveled out," but if we knew that there was actually only 18,000 active players...it really doesn't matter what Funcom thinks. The truth is the game would have failed on many levels at that point. The former CFO stated last year (before he resigned), "That at 100,000 subscribers that AoC would be considered unsuccessful." We know it's less (and has been less for a very longtime)...how much less...well that's a different story.

    They can say they think the game is doing well...but in the darkest corners of Norwegian office space, I can guarantee you that there are 5 or 6 Funcom executives telling one another how dire the situation has become.

    Hard for Funcom to think well of their game when that happens...but they'll tell us that everything is SUPER DUPER! So what they tell us about how they "feel" about their game, and what they REALLY think are totally different worlds.

     In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Craig was on the "receiving-end "of one of those meetings which may have inspired his blog entry; titled: "Please Be Gentle With Our Delicate Feelings When Sending Us Hate Mail."

     

  • MagusMagnusMagusMagnus Member Posts: 8

    When people start complaining about their job, it's time they look for a new one. I promise you, your boss starts looking at other people to fill your spot the first time you open your mouth about being unhappy. better hope you find a new gig before he finds a cheaper, qualified person with a better attitude.

    His complaints about feedback makes me /facepalm, they ignored all the feedback they got about volunteer forum staff not doing a proper job. The paid forum managers let the FU go back to wow type fans run amok on their boards and banned / censored anyone with honest critiques. And now they realize their forums are just asshatz making noise?? how the F did they not see that coming.

    The game has a few pockets of nice mature experienced MMO players, you'll never catch them frequenting the official board. The community staff really did a deplorable job at cultivating a forum environment. No one with half a brain bothers posting on it.

    Even worse, the lack of coherent feedback complaint makes it obvious that none of the development team actually play the product regularly. If they did they wouldn't need the forums to dictate direction of the development cycle.

    His whole blog rant is massive failure no matter how he tries to explain it away.

    why is your signal to noise ratio so horrible? better look to yourselves funcom, you control every single word on your board ...

This discussion has been closed.