An UO remake... I completely agree on your #1. How the hell no one has copied it, and how the hell EA hasn't decently remade it (sure, there were several attempts, all canceled before release) baffles me. It's like they don't want the MMO genre to stray away from the Themepark and to go back to Sandbox, because that's what a decent UO remake would cause to the MMO genre.
Sometimes I wonder if developers are just afraid to remake UO and risk sullying its divine status. Have the courage to try it
I am in total agreement with you on that one and wait/hope for the day it happens. It's a UO thing. If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand. What more needs to be said.
2.) AC - another one I agree with.
AC and UO were/are my two most favorite MMO's of all time. For those saying AC already had a re-do. You obviously have played neither game to make such a statement. The only thing similar about AC1and AC2 was the name, and the setting/lore. Other than that, they were nothing alike, and I mean nothing. No two games could be at such opposite ends of the spectrum like AC1 and AC2 were.
3.) AO - would love to see this one as well.
The game was an absolute mess at release without a doubt, but eventually turned into a great game once Funcom got the issues worked out. Just a sidenote to the OP, Keepers and Shades were added with the Shadowlands expansion, much after the original came out. I'm sure you know that, but the article struck me as suggesting they've been there all along...yeah, slow night for me if that's all I can nit pick about, lol!
On a sidenote while I'm talking about Funcom. I am really looking forward to The Secret World. Funcom seems to have the vibe on the Post Apoc, CyberPunk, Sci-Fi genre.
Those are the 3 I'd like most to see redone modern style.
Honorable mention for me:
SWG - bring it back to where it was shortly after release, pre-holo-grind.....it all started going down hill after the whole holocron crap IMO. Before that was some of the best next gen sandbox gaming I have been a part of. The crafting to this day was the best I have ever seen in an MMO.
Realms of Torment - no really! Had that game been able to deliver what it had promised from the beginning it would have been an awesome game. I think it could be pulled off today by a decent developer. Leave anyone even remotely related to the development of the original far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far away from here and the new development though, lol.
As for the OP's other picks.
DAOC- For whatever reason I was never able to get into this game. I tried multiple times. The PvE character progression seemed boring to me after UO and AC1, and the PvP paled in comparison to AC's Darktide. Personal opinion of course.
CoH- never got into this game or even tried. It just didn't interest me. That being said, the game seems fairly young to be on this list IMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Anarchy Online has been getting facelift in the works since before AoC came out, but haven't seen much status of it in awhile. So no telling with those guys what's going on. they showed some video footage on their main website before, which looked really nice. But i think it would be much better if they just re-designed the game with a good physics engine, UI and overall graphics engine it would be awesome.
Ultima did have a new MMO coming out a long time ago, but the game got canned for whatever reason... It was being made with the latest Unreal engine etc... supposedly a little bit real time. Guess Tabula Rasa was more important lol.
All i know is i'm still waiting for the REAL Asheron's Call sequel.
Oh and don't forget that Asheron's Call is awesome also because it uses a Tinkering system on items in the game rather than a crafting system. So you can modified random items found in the game to make them better. I really think that system is way more fun than any modern crafting system.
Great list, especially agree about Asheron's Call. It has an amazing world which actually feels alive unlike the theme parks churned out these days. You could write several novels on everything that has happened in the AC world in the last decade, most MMORPGs feel so static and flat by comparison. It also has the most addictive loot system I've come across. To be honest if it wasn't for the fact that A) it looks so old now and it's empty of, you know, people - I'd still want to play it.
Yes AC2 failed but AC2 strayed alot from what made the original so unique so in the end not only couldn't compete with it's competitors but couldn't even compete with it's predecessor.
A true sequel/re-make/whatever would be brilliant and even my gamer friends who hate mmorpgs these days would likely sign up for it.
I’m actually somewhat shocked so see so many DAOC2 supporters. Mainly because it was such a niche game and it existed before the big MMO rush. Most people I talk to in WoW and WAR have only heard of it or tried it once. I think the big thing that also made it appealing was that it was 1.Indie at the time and 2. Didn’t cater to laziness. You remember the long waits for teleporting when you’d be forced to talk to strangers or lost in the housing district? Sure some people would think that is a waste of time...but in the scheme of things it made of kind of…appealing. I think the ability to set your own time tables as an indie company also helped Mythic.They didn't have to cater to laziness! They didn’t have to cater to all age groupss and market their game to “get rich quick” mentality. On the big business side you do. The more wide its appeal the more dumbed down it will get. Everything is instant gratifications which = more profit. I bounce between WoW, Age of Conan, WAR, and Lotro just trying to recapture a little bit of that nostalgia that made Dark Age so alternative. My list:
Shadowbane isn't on the list because it's already been remade. The remake is called Darkfall. As to the article well yes thats a pretty good list and some decent reasons for doing it. Job well done really.
Wrong. DF is nothing like SB --lightyears apart. Only simularity is open looting and even that is different in both. Try again.
as for SB, i have to really ask why people liked it? i didn't find it the least bit interesting and the concept of player-run cites seemed only good on paper and never worked in practice i've heard the horror stories from when the game started and how basically it basically turned into one guild controlling the server. thats besides the hacking that went on, it was almost as bad as darkfall.
What game did you play? Or should I say, did you play it or not since you contradict yourself here. Sb is nothing like Darkfall. That comparison shows me you have no clue. I have heard the loch ness monster exists so it must be true (insert eye-roll here).
Shadowbane was by far the best adrenaline rush I've ever had playing an MMO. And yes the player run cities worked well in the game. You built your nation from the ground up, made alliances and had to be vigilant for threats from your enemies, allies who could turn on you, and spies from within. The game had the best political intrigue of any MMO...it was never static. Something wild was always going on.
Yes it had bad problems from the dreaded SB.exe error to duping and other exploits were rampant, but the game is now runnning under new management and most of the old problems (finally) are history. The game is well past it's prime, but needs a sequel and should be represented.
good list. However, I'd rather play a DAoC 2 than a UO 2. I know it sounds blasphemistic (is that even a word lol?), but I could only ever get that "Keep Burning", "Tree-huggin hibbie slaughtering", "CC is OP!" rush from one game, DAoC. No other game has even come close. I'm more suprised that someone hasn't come out with another 3 realm pvp game. Everyone always seems to only do two...and as the list says, it just doesn't work out well.
Don't get my wrong, I loved UO. Perhaps a UO - DAoC mix, with the sandboxiness (another made up word lol) of UO with the 3 realm mass combat of DAoC...uh oh, I think I just wet my self!
That was a pretty decent list and I've tried most of those games. While I've never played UO, the amount of posts I hear from ex-UOers longing for a game to be a decent inheritor of their game makes me wonder why there hasn't been a UO2 yet.
However, with all of the MMORPGs out there now and out of all of them that I've tried, I don't think any remake will be any great success unless it offers something NEW! All of the games out there contain the exact same mechanics. Combat consists of pulling a mob, burning its health down, healing your group's health. Basically...that's it! And combat is 80% of what players do! How about walking down a dungeon with your group knowing that mobs maybe be waiting in the shadows ahead UNSEEN ready to ambush you?
Tradeskilling? It's usually crafting which consists of getting some ingredients, putting them in their slots, pushing a button and repeat ad nauseam. It's not actually "crafting" but merely just "producing" (Horizons may be different, idk).
Character customization = making your eyebrows longer?? lol Gimme a break! How about character customization like "Obesity: +5 str, +20 charge, -10 speed" and balloons your avatar's middle? Or "Claustrophobia: -5 to all skills in dungeons" that gives you extra customization points to spend on gaining other skills. How about a Read skill that lets you read signs in cities or read that scroll that your group found in the dungeon telling you about the poison pit in front of the next door?
I'm ranting now so I'll stop. My point is that no MMORPG will be a breakout game or WoW killer or anything more than a mediocre success until it BREAKS FREE of previous games instead of just REMAKING them.
“Bad launches are no longer tolerated?” Replace that with every launch is now a Beta but that’s what players have got used to.
To the last poster Bureaucrat’s are not politicians they are administrators. You could describe a politician as bureacratic but then you could describe a receptionst as bureacratic too.
next on my list would be EVE ONLINE this game has its little nitch ind is prety serious at the economy but its still old and lacking in many reguards its planets and systems are nice but procedurally generic there for the most part just scenery and have no play in the game no fighting to claim them, no ground battles or orbital bombardment and no planetary resources (the commodities are abstract creations) the universe is lager 5000 + 2500 systems now i think but there is no insintive to explore if anything its far too lethal to even try because they have HARD CORE FREE FOR ALL PVP which is a casual players NOMANS LAND My suggestion would be to update and improve the solar systems and add semi unique space objects overhaul their painfully stark misson system,, and limit PVP so casual players have more freedom EVE2 would probably exceed 1 million players in a month or so. the biggest reason im not playing EVE right now is that PVP is not how I want to enjoy eve and you cant excape it ieven in empire space they will "WARDEC" on non-combat corps which effectivly destroys them in short order. there has allready been a mass exodus from EVE into LIMBO and when STAR TREK ONLINE goes live if its half as good as players expect the current EVE population will drop by as much as 1/3 or more leaving the hard core PVP jerks to go play with themselves.
"its planets and systems are nice but procedurally generic" new overhaul in less then 2 months
[the planets are] "for the most part just scenery and have no play in the game no fighting to claim them" "no planetary resources" new planetary system comes in H2 2010 with territorial control and resources
"no ground battles or orbital bombardment" DUST 514 expected late 2010 early 2011
EVE doesn't need a v2, since its evolving faster then new sequel could be developed from scratch. It's getting new graphics every 12 months, new game aspects every 6 months.
What I want is UO2. I want, I Want, I WANT, I WNAT!
Nice list and while i haven't played UO or AC i did try AC2 for a bit but didn't like it much.
Currently i have 3 active accounts in anarchy online and one in everquest, compared to WoW or AoC no quest markers all over the place is very nice for a change, not sure a remake would work though, for me everquest is my first mmo and that makes it very special, AO i started playing back in mid 2001 then took a year long break, i play it on and off and enjoy it as it is.
I know that a lot of people may agree with you on a few of these but just like a bunch of the comments say here - What were you thinking by putting City of Heroes up there. I thought you made a list of games that were so great they should be remade to today's standards. CoH had some fun decent graphics but doesn't belong in that list at all. Definitely would of put UO as #1, the rest is a little blurry for me but honestly would of put Shadowbane in that list. Their character building system along with the skill tree system allowed you to create characters in a lot of different ways. I see a lot of systems that copied or tried to copy or make similar systems but fell far from it. You didn't mention everquest as one of them. There was everquest 2 but that was their attempt at making something new versus trying to keep the same formula and keep the hardcore epic feel and just updating it better graphics - if the systems were to be updated, i'd update them with very very small changes so that it doesn't lose the feel of the game. I've never played AC after reading what you wrote it made me want to try it atleast. Daoc - played it for a long time - i'd put it at about the end of the list or not at all considering there are others that are much better suited to be there (like I said shadowbane and everquest). Blizzard is working on Diablo 3 but they are changing a lot about the game that made diablo 2 so fun to play. That was more of an action game but came before a lot of others and played like an RPG and still to this day has tons of players still playing it - The character building system in that has always kept it fun and fresh even so many years later, would love to see that remade, revamped, redone graphically but not so much on the actual game system changes. Just my opinion.
Why bother with remakes? I loved AC when it first came out. Played it for years. I don't want to play it again. I played it already. I played M59 already. I played all (well, most of) these games already.
Come up with some new goddamn ideas and make them for fun before profit. That's what made these good in their day and what makes some of them persist where garbage like Warhammer and Conan crash and burn before their year anniversary comes along. Remakes are for uncreative d-bags and people who can't let go of their teddy bears.
That aside, it's not like bad launches aren't tolerated; hell, every game that comes out anymore has a trash launch and there is a legion of frothing supporters making excuses and justifications - where AC, one of the oldest games on this list right here, had a more or less flawless launch by comparison to damn near anything released in the last couple years.
after reading your cry fest about not understanding the crat lass in ao im left with nothing but confusion.
as an editor on this site, im just dumbfounded about your bits on anarchy online. you went normal wow laden mmo fanboy on us.
boo hoo. i dont like that they called one of the pet classes (and a damn good one at that) the same name as a politician.
wow dude, after reading your articles for years. you lost all credibility with me on that one.
mental note, take everything dana writes from now on with a grain of salt.
seriously.....
I didn't like Anarchy Online so I have no credibility? Seems a bit extreme.
I'll admit flat out that I played it a bit around Beta and launch, never got hooked, and never went back for any significant, non-professional amount of time.
The fact is, AO is one of the rare games out there where I had an organic experience that is actually vaguely representative of what real people do. I wasn't covering it, I had no professional responsibilities in it. I think I worked at IGN at the time, but not on AO in any way and I was probably 16/17 years old
So I picked it up out of my own interest and with minimal research based likely off banner ads or minimum amount of looking at fansites/official sites. If they don't like a game early or it disappoints them in some way (and yes, the Bureaucrat thing may be harsh, but it was what went through my brain at the time), they don't come back.
It's why there is limited value to improving a game over the years post launch, or even upgrading them entirely. You need a proper launch to get a lot of people to think about you a second time.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Why bother with remakes? I loved AC when it first came out. Played it for years. I don't want to play it again. I played it already. I played M59 already. I played all (well, most of) these games already. Come up with some new goddamn ideas and make them for fun before profit. That's what made these good in their day and what makes some of them persist where garbage like Warhammer and Conan crash and burn before their year anniversary comes along. Remakes are for uncreative d-bags and people who can't let go of their teddy bears. That aside, it's not like bad launches aren't tolerated; hell, every game that comes out anymore has a trash launch and there is a legion of frothing supporters making excuses and justifications - where AC, one of the oldest games on this list right here, had a more or less flawless launch by comparison to damn near anything released in the last couple years.
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Originally posted by Dana I didn't like Anarchy Online so I have no credibility? Seems a bit extreme. I'll admit flat out that I played it a bit around Beta and launch, never got hooked, and never went back for any significant, non-professional amount of time. The fact is, AO is one of the rare games out there where I had an organic experience that is actually vaguely representative of what real people do. I wasn't covering it, I had no professional responsibilities in it. I think I worked at IGN at the time, but not on AO in any way and I was probably 16/17 years old So I picked it up out of my own interest and with minimal research based likely off banner ads or minimum amount of looking at fansites/official sites. If they don't like a game early or it disappoints them in some way (and yes, the Bureaucrat thing may be harsh, but it was what went through my brain at the time), they don't come back. It's why there is limited value to improving a game over the years post launch, or even upgrading them entirely. You need a proper launch to get a lot of people to think about you a second time.
no, more like because you write the most biased, one sided, fluffed up articles to meet your own views and ignore all the rest. You state you worked at IGN? I sure hope it was in the mail room. As a professional in the Journalism field I'll say you are much more suited to letters to the editor writing then real articles. :P
Grouping in Old school mmo's: meeting someone at the bar and chatting, getting to know them before jumping into bed. Current mmo's grouping: tinder. swipe, hookup, hope you don't get herpes, never see them again.
Why bother with remakes? I loved AC when it first came out. Played it for years. I don't want to play it again. I played it already. I played M59 already. I played all (well, most of) these games already. Come up with some new goddamn ideas and make them for fun before profit. That's what made these good in their day and what makes some of them persist where garbage like Warhammer and Conan crash and burn before their year anniversary comes along. Remakes are for uncreative d-bags and people who can't let go of their teddy bears. That aside, it's not like bad launches aren't tolerated; hell, every game that comes out anymore has a trash launch and there is a legion of frothing supporters making excuses and justifications - where AC, one of the oldest games on this list right here, had a more or less flawless launch by comparison to damn near anything released in the last couple years.
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
Yup, its launch earned it its Nick name : Anarchy Offline!
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
For Those that wonder why an UO2 was never made since it seems from many fans that it would have been a hit.
The answer is that Origin systems did start the devellopment of UO2, but EA shut it down saying that they would rather concentrate on 1 MMORPG..and not split their customer base.
You can find some Preview videos of UO2 on Youtube as testimony of this:
Mortal Online draws quite a bit of inspiration from Ultima Online. Though I never played UO, I do like the feel of Mortal Online. So for anyone who hasn't read about MO but really liked UO, you might want to read up.
My Problem with MO is that it is First person...
While it may have the Sandbox element of UO, it does not have the RPG element of UO, just like Darkfall.
And UO was not only Sandbox, or only RPG as an MMO, it was a combination of both with agreat Lore that preceded it and the sence of Adventure. UO was a World not only a game.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
To any1 who said SB doesn't belong here. First of all, Shadowbane was the first player grave looting, player city building MMO. Player cities worked very well in practise. Shadowbane in its dying days was the best city siege game todate. I say this, because many changes were made to make the sieges more balanced & many people left Shadowbane very early on, before guards balance, siege spires , city grids & all that.
the horror stories you've heard are for the most part true, but there was also a lot of shifting. There was guilds that controlled a whole server through cheating, but that forced the other players to get better, come up with better builds, better strategies & for the most part that made for better gameplay. These guilds also didn't last for long most of the times.
here, we're not talking about hacking & cheating. We're talking about game concepts & Shadowbane was truly 1 of the best pvp game concepts out there & the character class/race diversity was something else. How many solid templates of a templar can you come up with in a game. How many different type of succesful group compositions? I myself came up with a few original templates of my own & i tell you, no better thrill than some1 calling you a gimp & you going out rolling him & his friends on your own with your new "gimpy" character.
Best politics game ever.
Bottom line, no other game has kept me on my toes like SB has. Smarts, skill & a cool head really counted. There's no other game a lvl 29 guy could kill some 10 or 20 lvls above him or a single guy defeat a whole group of people, or disrupt a whole guild, not through cheating.
Comments
Sometimes I wonder if developers are just afraid to remake UO and risk sullying its divine status. Have the courage to try it
Yes there should not be any fear there!
Actually they can use some of the best elements of the most successful Themepark game out there (WoW) and make the best Sandbox game there can be
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
My list:
1.) UO - no doubt.
I am in total agreement with you on that one and wait/hope for the day it happens. It's a UO thing. If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand. What more needs to be said.
2.) AC - another one I agree with.
AC and UO were/are my two most favorite MMO's of all time. For those saying AC already had a re-do. You obviously have played neither game to make such a statement. The only thing similar about AC1and AC2 was the name, and the setting/lore. Other than that, they were nothing alike, and I mean nothing. No two games could be at such opposite ends of the spectrum like AC1 and AC2 were.
3.) AO - would love to see this one as well.
The game was an absolute mess at release without a doubt, but eventually turned into a great game once Funcom got the issues worked out. Just a sidenote to the OP, Keepers and Shades were added with the Shadowlands expansion, much after the original came out. I'm sure you know that, but the article struck me as suggesting they've been there all along...yeah, slow night for me if that's all I can nit pick about, lol!
On a sidenote while I'm talking about Funcom. I am really looking forward to The Secret World. Funcom seems to have the vibe on the Post Apoc, CyberPunk, Sci-Fi genre.
Those are the 3 I'd like most to see redone modern style.
Honorable mention for me:
SWG - bring it back to where it was shortly after release, pre-holo-grind.....it all started going down hill after the whole holocron crap IMO. Before that was some of the best next gen sandbox gaming I have been a part of. The crafting to this day was the best I have ever seen in an MMO.
Realms of Torment - no really! Had that game been able to deliver what it had promised from the beginning it would have been an awesome game. I think it could be pulled off today by a decent developer. Leave anyone even remotely related to the development of the original far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far away from here and the new development though, lol.
As for the OP's other picks.
DAOC- For whatever reason I was never able to get into this game. I tried multiple times. The PvE character progression seemed boring to me after UO and AC1, and the PvP paled in comparison to AC's Darktide. Personal opinion of course.
CoH- never got into this game or even tried. It just didn't interest me. That being said, the game seems fairly young to be on this list IMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Anarchy Online has been getting facelift in the works since before AoC came out, but haven't seen much status of it in awhile. So no telling with those guys what's going on. they showed some video footage on their main website before, which looked really nice. But i think it would be much better if they just re-designed the game with a good physics engine, UI and overall graphics engine it would be awesome.
Ultima did have a new MMO coming out a long time ago, but the game got canned for whatever reason... It was being made with the latest Unreal engine etc... supposedly a little bit real time. Guess Tabula Rasa was more important lol.
All i know is i'm still waiting for the REAL Asheron's Call sequel.
Oh and don't forget that Asheron's Call is awesome also because it uses a Tinkering system on items in the game rather than a crafting system. So you can modified random items found in the game to make them better. I really think that system is way more fun than any modern crafting system.
Great list, especially agree about Asheron's Call. It has an amazing world which actually feels alive unlike the theme parks churned out these days. You could write several novels on everything that has happened in the AC world in the last decade, most MMORPGs feel so static and flat by comparison. It also has the most addictive loot system I've come across. To be honest if it wasn't for the fact that A) it looks so old now and
it's empty of, you know, people - I'd still want to play it.
Yes AC2 failed but AC2 strayed alot from what made the original so unique so in the end not only couldn't compete with it's competitors but couldn't even compete with it's predecessor.
A true sequel/re-make/whatever would be brilliant and even my gamer friends who hate mmorpgs these days would likely sign up for it.
I’m actually somewhat shocked so see so many DAOC2 supporters. Mainly because it was such a niche game and it existed before the big MMO rush. Most people I talk to in WoW and WAR have only heard of it or tried it once. I think the big thing that also made it appealing was that it was 1.Indie at the time and 2. Didn’t cater to laziness. You remember the long waits for teleporting when you’d be forced to talk to strangers or lost in the housing district? Sure some people would think that is a waste of time...but in the scheme of things it made of kind of…appealing. I think the ability to set your own time tables as an indie company also helped Mythic.They didn't have to cater to laziness! They didn’t have to cater to all age groupss and market their game to “get rich quick” mentality. On the big business side you do. The more wide its appeal the more dumbed down it will get. Everything is instant gratifications which = more profit. I bounce between WoW, Age of Conan, WAR, and Lotro just trying to recapture a little bit of that nostalgia that made Dark Age so alternative. My list:
1. UO
2. Daoc
3. SWG
4. AC
Wrong. DF is nothing like SB --lightyears apart. Only simularity is open looting and even that is different in both. Try again.
What game did you play? Or should I say, did you play it or not since you contradict yourself here. Sb is nothing like Darkfall. That comparison shows me you have no clue. I have heard the loch ness monster exists so it must be true (insert eye-roll here).
Shadowbane was by far the best adrenaline rush I've ever had playing an MMO. And yes the player run cities worked well in the game. You built your nation from the ground up, made alliances and had to be vigilant for threats from your enemies, allies who could turn on you, and spies from within. The game had the best political intrigue of any MMO...it was never static. Something wild was always going on.
Yes it had bad problems from the dreaded SB.exe error to duping and other exploits were rampant, but the game is now runnning under new management and most of the old problems (finally) are history. The game is well past it's prime, but needs a sequel and should be represented.
good list. However, I'd rather play a DAoC 2 than a UO 2. I know it sounds blasphemistic (is that even a word lol?), but I could only ever get that "Keep Burning", "Tree-huggin hibbie slaughtering", "CC is OP!" rush from one game, DAoC. No other game has even come close. I'm more suprised that someone hasn't come out with another 3 realm pvp game. Everyone always seems to only do two...and as the list says, it just doesn't work out well.
Don't get my wrong, I loved UO. Perhaps a UO - DAoC mix, with the sandboxiness (another made up word lol) of UO with the 3 realm mass combat of DAoC...uh oh, I think I just wet my self!
That was a pretty decent list and I've tried most of those games. While I've never played UO, the amount of posts I hear from ex-UOers longing for a game to be a decent inheritor of their game makes me wonder why there hasn't been a UO2 yet.
However, with all of the MMORPGs out there now and out of all of them that I've tried, I don't think any remake will be any great success unless it offers something NEW! All of the games out there contain the exact same mechanics. Combat consists of pulling a mob, burning its health down, healing your group's health. Basically...that's it! And combat is 80% of what players do! How about walking down a dungeon with your group knowing that mobs maybe be waiting in the shadows ahead UNSEEN ready to ambush you?
Tradeskilling? It's usually crafting which consists of getting some ingredients, putting them in their slots, pushing a button and repeat ad nauseam. It's not actually "crafting" but merely just "producing" (Horizons may be different, idk).
Character customization = making your eyebrows longer?? lol Gimme a break! How about character customization like "Obesity: +5 str, +20 charge, -10 speed" and balloons your avatar's middle? Or "Claustrophobia: -5 to all skills in dungeons" that gives you extra customization points to spend on gaining other skills. How about a Read skill that lets you read signs in cities or read that scroll that your group found in the dungeon telling you about the poison pit in front of the next door?
I'm ranting now so I'll stop. My point is that no MMORPG will be a breakout game or WoW killer or anything more than a mediocre success until it BREAKS FREE of previous games instead of just REMAKING them.
after reading your cry fest about not understanding the crat lass in ao im left with nothing but confusion.
as an editor on this site, im just dumbfounded about your bits on anarchy online. you went normal wow laden mmo fanboy on us.
boo hoo. i dont like that they called one of the pet classes (and a damn good one at that) the same name as a politician.
wow dude, after reading your articles for years. you lost all credibility with me on that one.
mental note, take everything dana writes from now on with a grain of salt.
seriously.....
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Couple of things:
“Bad launches are no longer tolerated?” Replace that with every launch is now a Beta but that’s what players have got used to.
To the last poster Bureaucrat’s are not politicians they are administrators. You could describe a politician as bureacratic but then you could describe a receptionst as bureacratic too.
My list:
1. AC
2. UO
3. DAOC
"its planets and systems are nice but procedurally generic" new overhaul in less then 2 months
[the planets are] "for the most part just scenery and have no play in the game no fighting to claim them" "no planetary resources" new planetary system comes in H2 2010 with territorial control and resources
"no ground battles or orbital bombardment" DUST 514 expected late 2010 early 2011
EVE doesn't need a v2, since its evolving faster then new sequel could be developed from scratch. It's getting new graphics every 12 months, new game aspects every 6 months.
What I want is UO2. I want, I Want, I WANT, I WNAT!
Nice list and while i haven't played UO or AC i did try AC2 for a bit but didn't like it much.
Currently i have 3 active accounts in anarchy online and one in everquest, compared to WoW or AoC no quest markers all over the place is very nice for a change, not sure a remake would work though, for me everquest is my first mmo and that makes it very special, AO i started playing back in mid 2001 then took a year long break, i play it on and off and enjoy it as it is.
I know that a lot of people may agree with you on a few of these but just like a bunch of the comments say here - What were you thinking by putting City of Heroes up there. I thought you made a list of games that were so great they should be remade to today's standards. CoH had some fun decent graphics but doesn't belong in that list at all. Definitely would of put UO as #1, the rest is a little blurry for me but honestly would of put Shadowbane in that list. Their character building system along with the skill tree system allowed you to create characters in a lot of different ways. I see a lot of systems that copied or tried to copy or make similar systems but fell far from it. You didn't mention everquest as one of them. There was everquest 2 but that was their attempt at making something new versus trying to keep the same formula and keep the hardcore epic feel and just updating it better graphics - if the systems were to be updated, i'd update them with very very small changes so that it doesn't lose the feel of the game. I've never played AC after reading what you wrote it made me want to try it atleast. Daoc - played it for a long time - i'd put it at about the end of the list or not at all considering there are others that are much better suited to be there (like I said shadowbane and everquest). Blizzard is working on Diablo 3 but they are changing a lot about the game that made diablo 2 so fun to play. That was more of an action game but came before a lot of others and played like an RPG and still to this day has tons of players still playing it - The character building system in that has always kept it fun and fresh even so many years later, would love to see that remade, revamped, redone graphically but not so much on the actual game system changes. Just my opinion.
Why bother with remakes? I loved AC when it first came out. Played it for years. I don't want to play it again. I played it already. I played M59 already. I played all (well, most of) these games already.
Come up with some new goddamn ideas and make them for fun before profit. That's what made these good in their day and what makes some of them persist where garbage like Warhammer and Conan crash and burn before their year anniversary comes along. Remakes are for uncreative d-bags and people who can't let go of their teddy bears.
That aside, it's not like bad launches aren't tolerated; hell, every game that comes out anymore has a trash launch and there is a legion of frothing supporters making excuses and justifications - where AC, one of the oldest games on this list right here, had a more or less flawless launch by comparison to damn near anything released in the last couple years.
I didn't like Anarchy Online so I have no credibility? Seems a bit extreme.
I'll admit flat out that I played it a bit around Beta and launch, never got hooked, and never went back for any significant, non-professional amount of time.
The fact is, AO is one of the rare games out there where I had an organic experience that is actually vaguely representative of what real people do. I wasn't covering it, I had no professional responsibilities in it. I think I worked at IGN at the time, but not on AO in any way and I was probably 16/17 years old
So I picked it up out of my own interest and with minimal research based likely off banner ads or minimum amount of looking at fansites/official sites. If they don't like a game early or it disappoints them in some way (and yes, the Bureaucrat thing may be harsh, but it was what went through my brain at the time), they don't come back.
It's why there is limited value to improving a game over the years post launch, or even upgrading them entirely. You need a proper launch to get a lot of people to think about you a second time.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
no, more like because you write the most biased, one sided, fluffed up articles to meet your own views and ignore all the rest. You state you worked at IGN? I sure hope it was in the mail room. As a professional in the Journalism field I'll say you are much more suited to letters to the editor writing then real articles. :P
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
Yup, its launch earned it its Nick name : Anarchy Offline!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
For Those that wonder why an UO2 was never made since it seems from many fans that it would have been a hit.
The answer is that Origin systems did start the devellopment of UO2, but EA shut it down saying that they would rather concentrate on 1 MMORPG..and not split their customer base.
You can find some Preview videos of UO2 on Youtube as testimony of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWumht6AuZo
There is also a Wikipedia article about it.
So yeah...nothing is impossible, I just hope the stars align for this one.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Like many, I agree with everything but CoH. I don't feel that it can draw again if it were remade.
I'd gladly play any of the other 4 though it they turned out the way you wrote them up. I'd probably end up playing a remake of DAOC the most though.
Mortal Online draws quite a bit of inspiration from Ultima Online.
Though I never played UO, I do like the feel of Mortal Online. So for anyone who hasn't read about MO but really liked UO, you might want to read up.
My Problem with MO is that it is First person...
While it may have the Sandbox element of UO, it does not have the RPG element of UO, just like Darkfall.
And UO was not only Sandbox, or only RPG as an MMO, it was a combination of both with agreat Lore that preceded it and the sence of Adventure. UO was a World not only a game.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
To any1 who said SB doesn't belong here. First of all, Shadowbane was the first player grave looting, player city building MMO. Player cities worked very well in practise. Shadowbane in its dying days was the best city siege game todate. I say this, because many changes were made to make the sieges more balanced & many people left Shadowbane very early on, before guards balance, siege spires , city grids & all that.
the horror stories you've heard are for the most part true, but there was also a lot of shifting. There was guilds that controlled a whole server through cheating, but that forced the other players to get better, come up with better builds, better strategies & for the most part that made for better gameplay. These guilds also didn't last for long most of the times.
here, we're not talking about hacking & cheating. We're talking about game concepts & Shadowbane was truly 1 of the best pvp game concepts out there & the character class/race diversity was something else. How many solid templates of a templar can you come up with in a game. How many different type of succesful group compositions? I myself came up with a few original templates of my own & i tell you, no better thrill than some1 calling you a gimp & you going out rolling him & his friends on your own with your new "gimpy" character.
Best politics game ever.
Bottom line, no other game has kept me on my toes like SB has. Smarts, skill & a cool head really counted. There's no other game a lvl 29 guy could kill some 10 or 20 lvls above him or a single guy defeat a whole group of people, or disrupt a whole guild, not through cheating.