You fail to factor in the rise of the internet. Theres simply more people online, it's unfair to compare numbers directly without taking total mmorpg users into account.
I never really understood the numbers for both L1 or L2, in each case the number of servers they had just did not reflect that huge number of subscribers. Well, the awnser is actually on mmogchart.com and pretty much explains what is causing thier numbers to be so inflated. Here's the quote from the site.
In previous versions of this report I did not include Lineage: The Blood Pledge in my graph. Why? Well, two main reasons. First, it completely dwarfed the other MMOGs, distorting the graph and making visual comparisons much more difficult. But more importantly, Lineage uses substantially different metrics for counting players. They may have close to 4 million players, but most of these players did not buy a box at the local software store and then pay a monthly subscription fee like traditional MMOGs. Instead, they play in PC baangs, Internet cybercafes in Korea that buy Lineage access from the company and then sell it at hourly rates to customers. This, combined with the unusual Korean dynamic of rapid deployment of broadband and the fact that imports of Japanese console platforms were restricted, made Lineage unusually popular. Lineages lack of success in the United States via the more traditional MMOG model only proves this out.
Originally posted by FaithRaven 2) Blizzard curently don't send anymore copies to stores because they want first to setup more servers. Right now if your in NA its very hard to find a WoW copy in a store.
Hmm. Well I was out running errands today and both Best Buy and Walmart had a shelf stocked full of copies of WoW. I never can seem to leave those stores without looking at the games.
Originally posted by Nahallac Originally posted by FaithRaven 2) Blizzard curently don't send anymore copies to stores because they want first to setup more servers. Right now if your in NA its very hard to find a WoW copy in a store.Hmm. Well I was out running errands today and both Best Buy and Walmart had a shelf stocked full of copies of WoW. I never can seem to leave those stores without looking at the games.Nahallac Silverwinds Alter Destiny Tunare - EQ
Friend of mine wanted to pick up a copy of the game early last week and ended up going to two walmarts, bestbuy and I think gamestop before he found a copy (it was the last one).
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik." http://www.lp.org Still waiting for my next mmorpg... A definition of 'munchkin', origin forgotten: "A player who, when told that the game will involve political intrigue in 15th-century Italy, insists on playing a Ninja." -isomeme
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
Originally posted by Pasomatt Lineage 2 has 1.5 million subscribers, and Lineage 1 has 2.3 million. So yeah, another million and a half and blizzard would have it.
Re-read the first post which went into detail about where the subscribers for WoW are at.
Now find out the same info for Lineage, and Lineage 2.
Lin and Lin2 are NOT worldwide successes. 2/3 of their total player base is from one country on the entire planet. Korea. Going further, half the population of Korea is in one city. Going still further, Korea leads the entire world when it comes to internet access for the masses. They have buildings called "PC Bangs" that allow anyone age 4 to 80 to get on the internet anytime, any day, 27/7. One does not have to own a PC, nor even buy the games. Many games are pre-loaded, and cracked, hacked, sooo wide open.
A nice example is how they are able to play Diablo2 on 300+ computers using just ONE copy of the game. "CD-Keys? What CD-Keys! We don't need no CD-Keys!". In Asia (notably China) copyrights are not recignized. It is a hacker's paradise.
The rest of Lin and Lin2's playerbase is from Asians who live in other countries of the world. Lin1 has f-a-i-l-e-d not once, but two times, when it was directly introduced to the "western" market aka USA and Europe.
There are over 8 million people living in NYC. If I made a MMORPG and it was a huge hit ONLY in NYC, with over 8 million playing it, but zero people anywhere else playing it, does that make it the most successful MMORPG in the world?
Last, the market in Korea is anti-non-Asian. Any non-Asian company is given a very hard time to compete. Like how Japanese rice farmers are supersuccessful. Is it because their rice is better? Or because their goverment makes it near impossible for rice from other countries to be sold in Japan?
Also non-Asian companies have also on purpose NOT targeted the Asian market. So a vacume exists because of the Aisans, and because of their competition.
I do support Korea, and other Aisan countires making their own MMORPGs. But to say they are more successful than MMORPGs that are marketed to ALL countries on the planet, that have playerbases in every major timezone - especially when Lin failed 2 times to directly enter the worldwide market, is inaccurate. There are many factors not brought up, which I am bringing up. (Heck I even got Sir Bruce to notice this and comment on it LOL!)
Originally posted by FaithRaven 2) Blizzard curently don't send anymore copies to stores because they want first to setup more servers. Right now if your in NA its very hard to find a WoW copy in a store. Hmm. Well I was out running errands today and both Best Buy and Walmart had a shelf stocked full of copies of WoW. I never can seem to leave those stores without looking at the games. Nahallac Silverwinds Alter Destiny Tunare - EQ
Friend of mine wanted to pick up a copy of the game early last week and ended up going to two walmarts, bestbuy and I think gamestop before he found a copy (it was the last one).
I guess it just depends where in the country you are. /shrug
Originally posted by Nahallac Originally posted by ValaraukOriginally posted by NahallacOriginally posted by FaithRaven 2) Blizzard curently don't send anymore copies to stores because they want first to setup more servers. Right now if your in NA its very hard to find a WoW copy in a store. Hmm. Well I was out running errands today and both Best Buy and Walmart had a shelf stocked full of copies of WoW. I never can seem to leave those stores without looking at the games. Nahallac SilverwindsAlter DestinyTunare - EQFriend of mine wanted to pick up a copy of the game early last week and ended up going to two walmarts, bestbuy and I think gamestop before he found a copy (it was the last one). I guess it just depends where in the country you are. /shrugNahallac Silverwinds Alter Destiny Tunare - EQ
Same here, can't be found. I talked to the local Game Stop and they said they get a few in every so often adn those are usually reserved. Walmart, forget it, they don't have it at all, ever. CompUSA, nope, nowhere to be found. Can't touch it in the West Virginia, Maryland, or Washington DC area that I have seen.
- Fadeus Hawkwood
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by _myko i couldnt care less how many people are playing WoW....number of subscribers is no measure of quality, just hype and marketing... it will be interesting to see the figures for actual subscriptions after 8 months
---sig--- currently training 'hoping for more sci-fi mmorpgs' to level 5
That's certainly true as the number of subscribers that a game has does not neccesarily reflect the game's quality.
Professional journalistic reviews/awards on the other hand do measure something in terms of quality...
Originally posted by Nahallac Well the city I'm in near central Texas doesn't seem to have a lack of copies lol.Nahallac Silverwinds Alter Destiny Tunare - EQ
No-one said the game is impossible to find. They said it's very difficult to find, and they're right.
Originally posted by kishe Blizzard games has never been as big hits in Asia as in western markets...Make MMO with anime anything and it's guaranteed to sell in korea...
Are you kidding me??? Starcraft is second only to Lineage in Korea. If Blizzard made a Starcraft MMORPG and realeased it in Asia it would definatly knock Lineage off the charts. But it would prolly have the same gameplay as every other Asian MMORPG cuz you know how inovative Blizzard is and NA would hate it. I can just imagin the whining, lol makes me laugh thinking of that travesty.
05.01.11 ? Why do you think Sony / SOE has insisted in blocking an asian server for EQ. The Taiwan server is nurfed (only EQ trilogy allowed [kunark & velous expansions]) ?Could it be EQ can not cut it in the asisn market for an asian parent company (Sony) to intentionally block asian access to it's product for FIVE years?! and only grudgingly allows three european (Ubisoft) servers. It is a fact Sony does NOT want asian subscribers for EQ nor EQ2. Lineage #s are for ingame characters, NOT unique individual subscribers. If EQ counted each and every char it stores expect it's #s would also inflate 5 to 20X. Consider they are trying to force EQ2 types to pay extra for just 4 more char slots (Lineage revenue model )
Originally posted by Lugnard Originally posted by _myko i couldnt care less how many people are playing WoW....number of subscribers is no measure of quality, just hype and marketing... it will be interesting to see the figures for actual subscriptions after 8 monthsThat's certainly true as the number of subscribers that a game has does not neccesarily reflect the game's quality. Professional journalistic reviews/awards on the other hand do measure something in terms of quality...
lol, if you believe that then there is no hope for you
btw, this isnt an anti-WoW rant or anything, its just that server population really doesnt matter, as long as the numbers are enough to keep the MMORPG you're playing alive. Plus its good fun winding up the fanbois
---sig--- currently training 'hoping for more sci-fi mmorpgs' to level 5
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
lol, if you believe that then there is no hope for you btw, this isnt an anti-WoW rant or anything, its just that server population really doesnt matter, as long as the numbers are enough to keep the MMORPG you're playing alive. Plus its good fun winding up the fanbois ---sig--- currently training 'hoping for more sci-fi mmorpgs' to level 5
So basically you believe all reviews are worthless? If that's the case then what's the point of having reviews? There has to be some form to rate games based on quality and reviews and awards are just one form in doing so.
Perhaps you might dislike WoW because the gameplay doesn't appeal to you but just because you don't like it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
There's a big difference between liking something and acknowledging something as good in terms of quality.
it always makes me laugh at how the same people always hate and doubt on Blizzard.. These were the same people saying how WOW was going to be a bust, and how Blizzard has never done a mmorpg before so they will fail. Now their making excuses like it'll die next year, or the year after taht, lol. Same haters, another day at mmorpg.com
What measures success is subscribers. Dont kid yourselves that the small 2000 subscription base mmorpg you play is really much of a 'success'. Dont act llike they all dont aim to achieve it. Thats the difference between WOW and the mmorpg's some people here love to champion as so great. Thats what it means~
PS just curious but what was the cost of Lineage1 to play back in the day? Was it equivalent to US mmorpg's like 9.95/month?
Originally posted by rohbshop PS just curious but what was the cost of Lineage1 to play back in the day? Was it equivalent to US mmorpg's like 9.95/month?
I could be wrong. But I remember hearing rough numbers of $20/month.
I don't know if this was myth, inability to translate the right amount of moolah. Or what. But I'm pretty sure it was known for being expensive in the east.
Death is not to fear; for it is not the end, but rather the beginning on the road to eternity.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Originally posted by bhug 05.01.11 ? Why do you think Sony / SOE has insisted in blocking an asian server for EQ. The Taiwan server is nurfed (only EQ trilogy allowed [kunark & velous expansions]) ?Could it be EQ can not cut it in the asisn market for an asian parent company (Sony) to intentionally block asian access to it's product for FIVE years?! and only grudgingly allows three european (Ubisoft) servers. It is a fact Sony does NOT want asian subscribers for EQ nor EQ2. Lineage #s are for ingame characters, NOT unique individual subscribers. If EQ counted each and every char it stores expect it's #s would also inflate 5 to 20X. Consider they are trying to force EQ2 types to pay extra for just 4 more char slots (Lineage revenue model )
originally posted by Lungard So basically you believe all reviews are worthless?
in a word, yes. Especially when it comes to MMO's, as different people have widely varying views. What's perfect for some people will be terrible to others.
There has to be some form to rate games based on quality
no, there doesnt. All they have to do is provide demos....and let the individual decide whether the game is good or not. This obsession with 'my game is the best' is what causes so many flames on this board, it really does not matter. Its the same as people who have never played x game before going on that game's forum and saying its naff. I dont care if the MMO i play is ranked no1., i care about whether i enjoy it or not. Far too many decent games have diluted their origins in the search for wider appeal....
---sig--- currently training 'hoping for more sci-fi mmorpgs' to level 5
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
Comments
You fail to factor in the rise of the internet.
Theres simply more people online, it's unfair to compare numbers directly without taking total mmorpg users into account.
KAos_nyrb
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
I never really understood the numbers for both L1 or L2, in each case the number of servers they had just did not reflect that huge number of subscribers. Well, the awnser is actually on mmogchart.com and pretty much explains what is causing thier numbers to be so inflated. Here's the quote from the site.
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
Friend of mine wanted to pick up a copy of the game early last week and ended up going to two walmarts, bestbuy and I think gamestop before he found a copy (it was the last one).
"Don't blame me, I voted for Badnarik."
http://www.lp.org
Still waiting for my next mmorpg...
A definition of 'munchkin', origin forgotten: "A player who, when told that the game will involve political intrigue in 15th-century Italy, insists on playing a Ninja." -isomeme
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
Re-read the first post which went into detail about where the subscribers for WoW are at.
Now find out the same info for Lineage, and Lineage 2.
Lin and Lin2 are NOT worldwide successes. 2/3 of their total player base is from one country on the entire planet. Korea. Going further, half the population of Korea is in one city. Going still further, Korea leads the entire world when it comes to internet access for the masses. They have buildings called "PC Bangs" that allow anyone age 4 to 80 to get on the internet anytime, any day, 27/7. One does not have to own a PC, nor even buy the games. Many games are pre-loaded, and cracked, hacked, sooo wide open.
A nice example is how they are able to play Diablo2 on 300+ computers using just ONE copy of the game. "CD-Keys? What CD-Keys! We don't need no CD-Keys!". In Asia (notably China) copyrights are not recignized. It is a hacker's paradise.
The rest of Lin and Lin2's playerbase is from Asians who live in other countries of the world. Lin1 has f-a-i-l-e-d not once, but two times, when it was directly introduced to the "western" market aka USA and Europe.
There are over 8 million people living in NYC. If I made a MMORPG and it was a huge hit ONLY in NYC, with over 8 million playing it, but zero people anywhere else playing it, does that make it the most successful MMORPG in the world?
Last, the market in Korea is anti-non-Asian. Any non-Asian company is given a very hard time to compete. Like how Japanese rice farmers are supersuccessful. Is it because their rice is better? Or because their goverment makes it near impossible for rice from other countries to be sold in Japan?
Also non-Asian companies have also on purpose NOT targeted the Asian market. So a vacume exists because of the Aisans, and because of their competition.
I do support Korea, and other Aisan countires making their own MMORPGs. But to say they are more successful than MMORPGs that are marketed to ALL countries on the planet, that have playerbases in every major timezone - especially when Lin failed 2 times to directly enter the worldwide market, is inaccurate. There are many factors not brought up, which I am bringing up. (Heck I even got Sir Bruce to notice this and comment on it LOL!)
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-EverQuest II:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EQ, Dungeon Siege, Diablo II, *UXO*:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
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It is not about "which MMORPG has the most subscribers."
It is about IF your favorite has enough subscribers to be making a true profit. If yes, then enjoy playing it.
All there is to it.
-Personal Website
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html
-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol
-EverQuest II:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EQ, Dungeon Siege, Diablo II, *UXO*:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
DAoC
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02
Straight Edge
Straight Edge
Friend of mine wanted to pick up a copy of the game early last week and ended up going to two walmarts, bestbuy and I think gamestop before he found a copy (it was the last one).
I guess it just depends where in the country you are. /shrug
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
Not to be racist here, But Koreans will Play ANYTHING < Cough lineage/ RO >
Same here, can't be found. I talked to the local Game Stop and they said they get a few in every so often adn those are usually reserved. Walmart, forget it, they don't have it at all, ever. CompUSA, nope, nowhere to be found. Can't touch it in the West Virginia, Maryland, or Washington DC area that I have seen.
- Fadeus Hawkwood
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
That's certainly true as the number of subscribers that a game has does not neccesarily reflect the game's quality.
Professional journalistic reviews/awards on the other hand do measure something in terms of quality...
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/awards.shtml
No-one said the game is impossible to find. They said it's very difficult to find, and they're right.
-------------------------------------------------------
[x]<--- Nail here for a new monitor.
Blizzard games has never been as big hits in Asia as in western markets...
Make MMO with anime anything and it's guaranteed to sell in korea...
Are you kidding me??? Starcraft is second only to Lineage in Korea. If Blizzard made a Starcraft MMORPG and realeased it in Asia it would definatly knock Lineage off the charts. But it would prolly have the same gameplay as every other Asian MMORPG cuz you know how inovative Blizzard is and NA would hate it. I can just imagin the whining, lol makes me laugh thinking of that travesty.
Korea have few TV posts that broadcast 24/7 Starcraft games. Every week in Korea are a lot of Starcraft competitions with a lot of $$$ as prizes.
Same with Warcraft III.
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
05.01.11
)
? Why do you think Sony / SOE has insisted in blocking an asian server for EQ. The Taiwan server is nurfed (only EQ trilogy allowed [kunark & velous expansions]) ?Could it be EQ can not cut it in the asisn market for an asian parent company (Sony) to intentionally block asian access to it's product for FIVE years?! and only grudgingly allows three european (Ubisoft) servers. It is a fact Sony does NOT want asian subscribers for EQ nor EQ2.
Lineage #s are for ingame characters, NOT unique individual subscribers. If EQ counted each and every char it stores expect it's #s would also inflate 5 to 20X. Consider they are trying to force EQ2 types to pay extra for just 4 more char slots (Lineage revenue model
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
Killer: 80%
Achiever: 60%
Explorer: 33%
Socializer: 26%
lol, if you believe that then there is no hope for you
btw, this isnt an anti-WoW rant or anything, its just that server population really doesnt matter, as long as the numbers are enough to keep the MMORPG you're playing alive. Plus its good fun winding up the fanbois
---sig---
currently training 'hoping for more sci-fi mmorpgs' to level 5
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...
So basically you believe all reviews are worthless? If that's the case then what's the point of having reviews? There has to be some form to rate games based on quality and reviews and awards are just one form in doing so.
Perhaps you might dislike WoW because the gameplay doesn't appeal to you but just because you don't like it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
There's a big difference between liking something and acknowledging something as good in terms of quality.
it always makes me laugh at how the same people always hate and doubt on Blizzard.. These were the same people saying how WOW was going to be a bust, and how Blizzard has never done a mmorpg before so they will fail. Now their making excuses like it'll die next year, or the year after taht, lol. Same haters, another day at mmorpg.com
What measures success is subscribers. Dont kid yourselves that the small 2000 subscription base mmorpg you play is really much of a 'success'. Dont act llike they all dont aim to achieve it. Thats the difference between WOW and the mmorpg's some people here love to champion as so great. Thats what it means~
PS just curious but what was the cost of Lineage1 to play back in the day? Was it equivalent to US mmorpg's like 9.95/month?
I could be wrong. But I remember hearing rough numbers of $20/month.
I don't know if this was myth, inability to translate the right amount of moolah. Or what. But I'm pretty sure it was known for being expensive in the east.
Death is not to fear; for it is not the end, but rather the beginning on the road to eternity.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
where did you get that info? lol
Maxxx - www.L2orphus.com Moderator
in a word, yes. Especially when it comes to MMO's, as different people have widely varying views. What's perfect for some people will be terrible to others.
no, there doesnt. All they have to do is provide demos....and let the individual decide whether the game is good or not. This obsession with 'my game is the best' is what causes so many flames on this board, it really does not matter. Its the same as people who have never played x game before going on that game's forum and saying its naff. I dont care if the MMO i play is ranked no1., i care about whether i enjoy it or not. Far too many decent games have diluted their origins in the search for wider appeal....
---sig---
currently training 'hoping for more sci-fi mmorpgs' to level 5
---sig---
PvE in general is pretty lame, if you think long and hard about it. You are spending your time beating a severely gimped AI that would lose to a well trained monkey. Best not to think too long and hard why you are wasting time playing games in general actually...