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The reason I won't be buying/subscribing to this game: Nobody wants to group.
Legato89
Member Posts: 297
This is one of the most antisocial MMOs Ive played since Champions Online. Hell, at least in CO there are pvp battlegrounds and raid endgames. Everyone can create anything, preventing any need to trade with others. I ask in /help or /regional for help with a group quest and just get told to come back to it in a few levels. What is the purpose of playing a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER RPG when you play it like a singe player game? People are always fighting over mobs and nodes, even in areas where its just me and 2 other guys. Anyway, thats my rant. I got a buddy key from someone, but Ill be keeping an eye on this game over the next few months to see if they do something about it.
Comments
I am assuming you are still on S1 (level 20 or less). Not much grouping goes on in the earlier towns, but there are group quests in Embry, Oilville and more. Most of these group quests are in quest chains, and not readily available. Grouping in FE makes things MUCH easier. But since much of S1 is fairly easy to begin with, there isn't a need for it.
Nearly everyone who I have talked to on S2 says that groups are a must for most of the dungeons lvl 20+.
I find many times posted problems with FE are often barely hidden desires never incorporated in the original design ie full pvp looting, FFA pvp.
In the case of your post you are 100% correct sir. It is one of a couple pretty big problems Icarus needs to really get fixed soon.
Other two are no item degradation and AP farming/Mob aggro fixes. Those are whole rants on thier own so I'll stick with the need to include forced grouping content for s1. By that I mean measure it so you can't go back 5 levels later and solo it.
Do it in a group or make it useless.
This game does have a lot of potential, and the graphics aren't even that bad (they need to fix shadows though) but the things that make me very weary are end game (and as much as you guys hate to admit it, every MMO needs an end game in one form or another) and grouping. Ive heard a lot of issues with the economy and how crafting coexists with it as well.
Honestly, theres no reason to force grouping. Forcing grouping is actually a very dumb idea. Grouping is a very viable option even in S1 (when you get tagged by two creatures, don't you wish there was someone there to get it off your ass?) people choose to either do it or not. Additionally, there isn't much of a point in actually grouping up for a quest when you get credit for helping someone else kill something. In some cases its much more convenient to just open fire and hang out with someone rather than formally group up.
Later on, if you choose to get into faction warfare, grouping will be essential to survival.
Really, the option is there, its if people want to take the time to make groups or join them that's the issue. If people don't want to group *shrug* thats the community. There really isn't a huge benefit one way or the other. I don't see this being a flaw in the game just because they aren't trying to pidgeonhole you into doing something.
@ Legato
I think most of the FE community is kind of worried about how the economy will pan out and are hoping that some sort of checks and balances will be added in. There have been quite a few discussions on the matter. As far as "end game" from what I understand it's primarily exploration and the faction wars/capturing towns and the like thus far. They plan on adding additonal sectors as well though and I've heard rumors their plan is to basically just keep adding areas on and trying to outpace people clumping at the cap with more content. If that will work out/happen, who knows.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
If you have a group quest but can't find anyone to help you, hang around the area the quest is at and wait for another player to come to the area. Chances are they will be on the same quest you're on, so send 'em an invite! This has worked for me on multiple occasions. I have sent blind-invites to people who were on the same quest I'm on, and they accept and we complete the mission.
Otherwise, if you can't find anyone to group with you, do what those in chat suggested: go do other quests and get higher level until you can solo it.
A lot of the grouping comes at later levels, for the PvP and higher level content.
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
I'm not sure if you're playing the same game as me. Grouping in FE isn't required at all, at any level. Sure, there are a couple of areas where you can group to get through things faster, but just about every group quest in the game can be soloed without much difficulty.
I'm nearing the end of S2 and I have yet to join a group. The OP is right; as of right now, the game is a huge solofest. They devs have stated that they have more group content planned, so keep an eye out for updates, OP.
When I say forced grouping I mean a group marked mob should be a group mob, not a I'll wait 5 levels to solo them mob.
Perfect example is gasoline quest line in spider hill, perfect opportunity for people to pub group but everyone just blows it off(even though we all need the gas) until late teens or early twenties and solo's it.
Not as bad for me as Alioth and I'm mid 20's now and had a few groups. Thing is grouping in FE is REALLY fun as hell. A totally unused rsource of enjoyment.
You've hit the nail on the head. I posted a pretty positive review of this game in one of the FE threads a month or so ago, but ultimately didn't maintain my subscription past the first month. It gave me a fantastic first impression, but after I realized I could solo everything I encountered, and that the community by-and-large wasn't interested in grouping it started going downhill. I can't say for sure if it's the way the game is designed or if it's the route MMO communities are headed nowadays anyway, but I really couldn't take it. Combine that with the "x marks the spot" solo quest mechanic telling you exactly where to go and what to do without any thought of your own, and you've got two things that I simply couldn't overcome.
That said, I love the setting and felt more immersed in FE than I've felt in any game in the last several years. I also love the classless design and craft-everything mentality the devs used. It's got a lot of strong points and if you tend to solo anyway, it may be the game for you. I just couldn't make it for the long haul. Maybe I'll give it a few months and try it out again. It is quite a fun game at times...
My sentiments exactly.
I thought people were exaggerating when I read about the "x marks the spot quests". It was very literal.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I'm not letting my sub run out, there is so much to love about the game the problems like not being group freindly aren't taking much joy. Icarus has also said they are including more grp content and they have been more then impressive with thier fixes.
Besides what are you going to go back too? Aion, WOW? No thanks, got more joy from this little indie then most games I've played the past few years.
The problem is, is that there seems to be no happy medium, and I'm not sure one even exists. Its either group content, which people complain about because not everyone is involved in a good guild and pugging can lead to some horrific nightmares, or its full solo play, which people complain about because well its an mmo and you want to play with other people.
For me I dont mind if there is no forced group content save for some instances or specific areas where you do need a group, as long as it isnt forced upon me as part of my leveling. For me the more important thing is how much the game nerfs my exp while in a group. I like playing with friends, and I am almost always playing the same MMO as my girlfriend, and thus we often are grouped playing together, so in games where group exp is nerfed heavily, it always poses a problem.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
My sentiments exactly.
I thought people were exaggerating when I read about the "x marks the spot quests". It was very literal.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the route developers are going nowadays. The first time I ever encountered this much "hand-holding" was in Warhammer Online. It really turned me off of that game as well (although it was merely one of a multitude of problems). I won't go as far as to say games are being "dumbed-down" because that's an over-simplification of the problem. They're just becoming more streamlined and more convenient, but also less fun (in my own little opinion, whatever it's worth). It wasn't all that long ago that quests in these games were optional activities that gave you a task to complete and sent you on your way. You had to find where to go and what to do on your own. This was fine, because quests weren't the main method of advancement. Killing monsters (often while grouped) was the only real way to level up.
Today, however, the "grind" is no longer acceptable to most players (for good reason, usually), so meaningless quests are thrown in to make you feel like leveling is more fun. The unfortunate thing, in my own little opinion, is that the new questlines that tell you where to go and what to do in an effort to prevent you from getting bored are infinitely more boring than a regular old dungeon crawl with a few like-minded adventurers. There are every bit as "grindy" as the traditional "grind", they just make you run around more and make your play experience more linear (as in everyone experiences roughly the same thing). And, while the quests aren't often required per se, they typically allow you to advance more quickly and present you with better items than a dungeon crawl at the same level. So in effect, you are encouraged to do them.
While I support the option to quest to your little heart's content, I absolutely implore any developers out there reading this to include alternate ways of advancement that encourage group participation and allow us to choose our own direction. And if you're going to let us quest... let us quest. I want to feel the excitement of figuring things out on my own and exploring along the way!
That's my take anyway. Thoughts?
While FE is a lot of things, hand holding and bad quests are two things it is not. Flame its faults but neither of these two faults are applicable. FE offers dungeons with no point other then to have fun, its often critisized because it throws your clone into its world with little or no preparation. Its had stellar reviews on its unusual quest lines. Your post is more applicable to general themeparks then this particular game. Please focus on its faults not other games.
You've got a fair point. My second paragraph really didn't pertain much to Fallen Earth, so I guess I derailed the thread a bit, but that's bound to happen. Apologies all around.
That said, I do have very serious issues with FE's questing system with regard to its "x-marks-the-spot" type gameplay, which has been taken to a whole new level. Yes, there is a lot to do beyond questing, and I've credited the game numerous times as such, but a red "blip" telling me exactly where to go at all times is frustrating beyond measure to me. It really did make it unplayable in my experience, but again, I think many people will like it as it makes things less frustrating. FE has a lot going for it, but I'll have to leave it alone for now.
Also, I don't think I'm "flaming" the game. Unless sincere criticism is a flame...
You've got a fair point. My second paragraph really didn't pertain much to Fallen Earth, so I guess I derailed the thread a bit, but that's bound to happen. Apologies all around.
That said, I do have very serious issues with FE's questing system with regard to its "x-marks-the-spot" type gameplay, which has been taken to a whole new level. Yes, there is a lot to do beyond questing, and I've credited the game numerous times as such, but a red "blip" telling me exactly where to go at all times is frustrating beyond measure to me. It really did make it unplayable in my experience, but again, I think many people will like it as it makes things less frustrating. FE has a lot going for it, but I'll have to leave it alone for now.
Also, I don't think I'm "flaming" the game. Unless sincere criticism is a flame...
No prob. All of us in the FE community love to debate FE's downfalls and faults to no end. Bring up faults not exactly a FE issue and suffer the pom-pom twiddleing fanboy attack. :P
Your critisisms are correct sir, outside of the stated paragragh. I'll also state without the longevity of rewarded grouping FE will suffer the ultimate fate of all MMO's recently released, we'll loose that EQ/UO magic.
I dunno about you but I made 2 groups for Prison runs pretty easy today. There is grouping going on all you have to do is make them yourself and not wait for some one else to do it for you.
I dunno.
It's Mad Max online and I like it solo, what can i tell you.
I've been playing MMORPGs for over a decade and I've had my share of socializing in online games.
I've been a guild leader and raid leader of one of the largest guilds in EQ for 3 years.
So you could say I know grouping heh.
One of the things I like about this game is that nothing is forced, not the PVE content nor the PVP.
Everything is optional and done for enjoyment of the game as a whole instead of being forced to group with people in order to finish an objective even when you dont feel like it.
Feature-wise this game is as good as it gets for me, I wouldn't change a thing.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
This.
I'm not saying it's the best game, I'm rather saying I am really lucky that someone made this game, as it has by far the most aspects that i just simply love. Freedom as mentioned above, crafting, the setting.... This is why I can ignore the occasional bugs, server issues, rubberbanding etc. Which. btw are less and less, thankfully
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I am one of those who like the "x-marks-the-spot" approach. In LotRO I regularly spent 30 mins trawling the area which the general description of where the quest object was before finding it. That annoyed me to a very large extent, and I ended up alt+tab'ing out to a database giving me the location after a little while. A feature disabeling the X would be better imho, then you guys who hate it can run around like blind chickens
hehe groups.... Ya, for S1 you don't really need one unless you are a crafter. I just follow people and shoot their mobs once and get kill credit. No one cares, and if they ask you just say you are a crafter. Most people have alts and understand. I really don't think this game is very anti-social. I talk all the time in region. I get help when I need it. Its not like WoW where in 2-3 minutes of looking you have a full group ready to do a quest. There just is not that many people.
SIGN!
One reason why i love this game! Why should anyone be forced to group to finish a quest, a dungeon or whatever?Why?
Yea thats reason why i realy cant stand this standard mmorgs anymore (wow war aion ect..) u HAVE to be in a big guild to survive..
If u whant group, there are for sure more than enough ppl who whant, most ppl will be in clans, playing with friends ect. they have the option, and im sure they will group up when for them it s greater fun, no need for a uber boss or a dungeon where u have to spend 7 hours to complete....who looks for this kind of "socialisation" they can get one of that thousands mmorg games out there who forces u to play in groups, to be able to finish a q/dungeon content even if u must play with the greatest idiots on this planet:))
I am one of those who like the "x-marks-the-spot" approach. In LotRO I regularly spent 30 mins trawling the area which the general description of where the quest object was before finding it. That annoyed me to a very large extent, and I ended up alt+tab'ing out to a database giving me the location after a little while. A feature disabeling the X would be better imho, then you guys who hate it can run around like blind chickens
I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.
I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.
Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.
I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.
I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.
Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.
I remember that quest; I still feel like a complete ass for subscribing to that game (back when it was P2P), but even more of one for actually completing it.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.
I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.
Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.
I remember that quest; I still feel like a complete ass for subscribing to that game (back when it was P2P), but even more of one for actually completing it.
Ha ha! I remember trying to get to the end before my subscription ran out. I never made it. Most of it wasnt even a game! Run to npc. Read story. Run to next npc. Read story. Run back to previous npc. Read story. Run to next npc. Read story. Ask myself why the hell I'm doing this shit. Fail to provide myself with an answer but carry on anyway like a complete spastik. Run to next npc.......
.....and there wasnt even any loot to find which is one of the addictive qualities that keep people playing these crappy MMO's. Well there sort of was but it was only visual fluff and had no stats. That was the developers attempt at being innovative......by removing loot grinding. Unfortunately addiction is the only appeal of MMOs so if you remove that then people find it hard to ignore how crap they are to play. They did however have a fairly good FPS style combat system which was far more fluid than what FE has to offer. Not neccessarily more interesting but it felt much nicer and more intuitive to use.
Oddly enough despite the fact that the game is mostly just reading a crappy story, its actually not much worse than any other MMO. God why are MMO's so fucking rubbish? lol
I am one of those who like the "x-marks-the-spot" approach. In LotRO I regularly spent 30 mins trawling the area which the general description of where the quest object was before finding it. That annoyed me to a very large extent, and I ended up alt+tab'ing out to a database giving me the location after a little while. A feature disabeling the X would be better imho, then you guys who hate it can run around like blind chickens
I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.
I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.
Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.
I can actually agree with you on this one, believe it or not. Quests should not be designed like the one you mentioned in TCoS. Finding eight random locations in a zone to complete the quest is absurd and poorly put together.
My issue really is less with the "x marks the spot" stuff (althought I really do despise it) as it is with the entire concept of quest-based advancement. Quests should be less common and far more meaningful. And they should require thought to complete. Collecting 8 dolls is not a thought-based quest and really shouldn't be in a game. I'd much rather go dungeon-crawling somewhere and come across an artifact or something. I could then find a language expert in a nearby town to translate the writing which would lead me somewhere else, etc. The real problem with questing these days is the "kill x mobs, gather y plants, etc. etc. etc. etc., then repeat at the next quest hub, yadda yadda yadda" drivel that we are bombarded with. In my mind, they don't disguise the grind they just make it more annoying because the developers decide where and how you should be grinding.
And don't even get me started on the little exclamation points above everyone's heads either....
(I've been on a bit of a rant-fest these last few days. Apologies all around, but it feels good to air my grievances!)