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There is no 'grind'
There are already level 50s after the first month of the game, and thats 'a grind'?
People who have done 50 have said that 49-50 is about a 20 hour grind. You could do that in a day if you were dedicated enough, and thats for the FINAL LEVEL. Thats actually faster than DAoC classic which everyone commented on as being such an easy to level in game when it came out!
Whats wrong with you people? Even casuals should be able to hit the cap in a few months. This is an mmo! Its supposed to take time!
If anything i think people at the cap after just a month is much too fast. In my mind this game is just some little pvp game with fast easy leveling, so i cant fault it for that, but i come to forums and see people complaining that its too hard to level! I think mmo is the wrong genre for you guys.
Comments
"Dedicated" is not the word that comes to my mind when talking about playing 20 hours in a day...
You know if we only heard about a grind in Aion from a handful of people that would be one thing. You saying there is NO grind in Aion is like saying World of Warcraft is one of the hardest mmos out there! There is a grind in Aion .. been there for about 1 year now.
So you made a post about a FREE2PLAY look alike game saying there is no grind.. so..
DAoC isn't F2P. And the grind in Aion isn't as bad as the grind in F2P MMOs, which many people play on servers with higher xp rates to compensate. Same thing goes for all popular games.
Make games you want to play.
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The problem is you are listening to idiots. All you should have to do is see that there are already level 50s a month in, and your common sense and reason should tell you that if that is even mechanically possible in an mmo = no grind.
People whos only mmo experience is world of questgrindan online dont know what an mmo is, of course newbies who have played all the mmo failures to come out in the last few years (WAR etc) have no idea what an mmo is supposed to be, but look at those games, they are all failures!
A good mmo takes many months to hit the level cap, or has no cap and you just grind forever. Thats the sort of game that made mmos popular in the beginning, what made big name titles like EQ eventually come out because people saw profit in mmos.
look at the mmos that still have dedicated playerbases over a decade after their release. They don't let you get to the level cap in a month.
Fast level = a failure of an mmo. And anyone who likes fast leveling doesn't actually like MMOs, they just think they do.
Aion will probably fail, but only because they will cave in to the demands of the same people that jump from mmo to mmo and complain about everything anyway, you already see that with the quest exp increase in the next patch. Those people dont have the attention span to stick with a game for years even if they liked it, so why they would ruin the game to appeal to these ADHD kiddies is beyond me, this is the same thing that has caused every mmo released in recent years to fail, the whiners leave even if you appease them because they will always find something to complain about BECAUSE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY LIKE MMOS, BLIZZARD HAS JUST BRAINWASHED THEM INTO THINKING THEY DO!
The problem is you are listening to idiots. All you should have to do is see that there are already level 50s a month in, and your common sense and reason should tell you that if that is even mechanically possible in an mmo = no grind.
People whos only mmo experience is world of questgrindan online dont know what an mmo is, of course newbies who have played all the mmo failures to come out in the last few years (WAR etc) have no idea what an mmo is supposed to be, but look at those games, they are all failures!
A good mmo takes many months to hit the level cap, or has no cap and you just grind forever. Thats the sort of game that made mmos popular in the beginning, what made big name titles like EQ eventually come out because people saw profit in mmos.
look at the mmos that still have dedicated playerbases over a decade after their release. They don't let you get to the level cap in a month.
Fast level = a failure of an mmo. And anyone who likes fast leveling doesn't actually like MMOs, they just think they do.
Aion will probably fail, but only because they will cave in to the demands of the same people that jump from mmo to mmo and complain about everything anyway, you already see that with the quest exp increase in the next patch. Those people dont have the attention span to stick with a game for years even if they liked it, so why they would ruin the game to appeal to these ADHD kiddies is beyond me, this is the same thing that has caused every mmo released in recent years to fail, the whiners leave even if you appease them because they will always find something to complain about BECAUSE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY LIKE MMOS, BLIZZARD HAS JUST BRAINWASHED THEM INTO THINKING THEY DO!
You know... I can already predict your'e going to be bashed for that post. It's a harsh and pretty blunt point-of-view.... but I tend to agree with it.
I've expressed similar sentiments, though in other ways. People who came to the genre with WoW and believe that a MMO is *supposed* to be almost entirely soloable, is *supposed* to be all about the end-game, is *supposed* to lead you around by the hand with who gives quests, where to go, etc.. is *supposed* to have fast leveling and is *supposed* to have very minor, if any, death penalties have, in my opinion, completely missed out on what made MMOs attractive in the first place.
Though they believe they're putting up a strong argument, many don't realize that when they say "I want to have fun, and having to spend a lot of time and energy to progress to end game isn't fun", they're basically demonstrating that they have the post-WoW mindest because people who were drawn to MMOs before that - the ones who are still playing those games many years later and don't hop from one to another, to another, to another as quickly as they come out - approached them from an entirely different mindset. The players back then weren't concerned about "racing to end game as fast as possible", they were merely enjoying themselves as they played, doing whatever they were trying to do.
Something only seems to take too long when you're in a hurry, or expect to complete it in a pre-determined amount of time. When you're simply enjoying the ride, and not "watching the clock", so to say, it doesn't even occur to you how long it's taking to achieve "goal x", because you're having fun doing activity A, B or C along the way. It's an entirely different mindset.
Many players now place what, to me, is an unreasonable amount of importance on "how far people are ahead of them". The question, "is it too late to start playing this game because so many had a head-start and are already at end game?" is another example of the problem. They aren't looking to play the MMO, to enjoy the journey, they want to log in, create their character and be "caught up to everyone else" as soon as possible.... so much so that the fact they have to actually go through the game just like everyone before them is enough to dissuade them from playing. They want to jump to the last page of the book without reading more than a few pages, so to speak just so they can sit in the group discussing the end.
The older MMOs and, more specifically, those who play(ed) them are often mischaracterized as "having no lives, so they can spend 10 hours a day playing". However, that's not an entirely honest mindset. For starters, you could say the same about people who play the post-WoW MMOs where you can progress a lot faster... they're still logged in for 10 hours a day, they're just doing a lot more now than they would have before. Many who played the old EQ, or FFXI or UO, etc also had full time jobs and families and other responsibilities. They also couldn't play more than a couple hours a day, maybe a few days a week. The difference was that *they weren't in a hurry to get to end-game*, so it didnt' matter. As long as they enjoyed themselves for that 2 or 3 hours per session, then that's all that mattered.
I've tried to explain that before, and have almost always been flamed for it - particularly by the post-WoW players who insist that it's not a real MMO if it's not fast leveling and all about end-game. But... when you look at the difference in MMOs pre and post-WoW and then compare many of the players pre and post-WoW... it pretty much speaks for itself. The "post-WoW" players are, seemingly, ever-restless and trying to "win" their current MMO so they can move on to the next one... The more "pre-WoW" players are enjoying themselves and have no interest in leaving their current MMO, no matter how shiny or flashy the newer MMOs are.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Overall Aion is a great game and all, but unfortunately all the people who call it another "grind" game are in fact right in some way. The developers really did put too much focus on the whole leveling thing to be honest. I'm currently level 26 and need about 3.2 million XP to get to level 27. At 5000 to 10.000 XP per kill this is going insanely slow. I actually dare to say that I can level faster in Final Fantasy XI than in Aion! And yes, you read that right. I need to kill at least 320 mobs to level now, which is absolutely boring as hell. Group content also is practically non-existent until now. The focus of the game until where I am now is 90% solo. Only on two occasions I had to form a group to clear the mission/quest.
From level 20/25 and up there is of course all the PvP content, which focuses a little more on the grouping aspects. But still the game is far to solo oriented. This is not my personal opinion, this is fact. To me it feels like all the PvE content is some filler stuff before the real thing is about to start. Like they didn't dare to make the game all about PvP for some weird reason. Of course every game needs a story, but these boring quests add little to nothing to the whole lore package.
Aion has work to be done in gameplay terms, and not so little. I wont be subscribing for another month when my "free" 30-day period ends. It's a good game overall, but unfortunately I'm already getting bored for some reason. And this is mainly because I don't feel like I'm progressing within the game. Even though I have all the best armor and still 700.000 Kinah to spend. Maybe the PvP is really superb, but that's not the main reason why I want to play and MMO. PvE has to be good in the first place, and it just isn't. I noticed myself clicking away all the boring lore to just get it over with and complete the mission/quest for my XP bonus. And that bonus wasn't even worth it for the larger part.
So in the end I'm just playing to level, which is also pretty slow, and I can also do that in an offline game. If I play an MMO I need to feel immersed in the world and have lots of others players around me that could somehow make an impact on that. Aion simply can't provide that for me. RPG does not mean "level, level, level". It can be part of the package of course, but in Aion they put way too much focus on that aspect. I just don't see myself as some level 50 dude who gets online to play some instances and/or multi-player castle sieges. If I wanted that sort of thing I would play Guild Wars, which does it all better than Aion right now.
Edit: What I'm basically trying to say is that Aion is another MMO with predefined ultimate goals which are the very same for everyone who plays the game. And I am one of those people who don't like that sort of thing.
Wooof nice and very long post. And that remind me that blizzard as already stated that their next mmo will attract many more people in the mmo genre that otherwise would never have touch this genre, by making a mmo more open and with simplier accessibility....
i thought we would have a new discussion in the next few years and perhaps you have to say "before blizzard X project" the mmo crowd was like that and now....
Let's see what's next but i think it's more good old times remembrance than anything else.
(sorry for the grammar no native english...)
Aion does have a steep leveling curve by todays MMO standards and although that may work for NICHE players, the MASSES i.e. the majority of players that dont even read forums will not embrase that kind of gameplay.
I agree with Wootson on alot of points. The game needs more group content while leveling up. I also think the game needs PvP prior to 25.
The problem isnt that it takes a while to get to the level cap, its that its mostly a solo experience.
Sure feels like a grind to me. At level 34 I can hardly get myself to play anymore, same things over and over again. I think the quests in this game do a poor job at disguising the grind involved.
Like i have posted many times here. Am now lvl 36 play 2-3 hours a day and still 27/30 on quest log. I feel no grind at all. Game is fun . Lots of running around but hey its a MMO.
Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
Playing Rift
Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(
Well it might be because I've done so many of those repeatable quests that it has felt very much like a grind.
I agree. Hitting max cap in ONE MONTH after release is not a grind. People have gotten spoiled after release of WoW and think that everything that takes more time than WoW to hit cap, is a grind.
Lineage 2 took almost a full year to hit max cap, when it was released. Asherons Call the same, Everquest a little less but still several months. One month is NOTHING.
If it took one month for powergamers then it will take a couple of months for a somewhat dedicated player and maybe 3-4 for a casual player. That is not a particulary bad grind.
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people use the excuse that "oh the first group accounts hit 50". There are a ton of level 40s that i know personally that play maybe 3-4hours a day. Hell one dungeon run gets you basically half a level not including quests for it. Mobs also give you a ton of xp so when you do have to kill stuff for xp it doesn't take all that long.
The problem here is that different people have different ideas about what the term "grind" actually means. To some (like the OP) it means that reaching max level takes a really long time. Obviously by those standards Aion does not qualify. However others define "grind" to mean ultra-repetitive gameplay with no real variety in challenge or activities within the game, purely so you can reach another level and repeat your actions all over again. I haven't seen what high level gameplay is like in Aion, but certainly up until the mid-20s this game could not be more repetitive.
You enter a new area grab all the quests, kill a few dozen of each type of mob in the zone, turn in the quests for more xp, rinse, repeat. Or if you find that a little too fast-paced, you can always try crafting - queue up a hundred items then sit and watch the progress bar crawl along. After a while you'll get bored and go find something else to do. Then you'll realise that what you wanted to do was play a computer game, but that the computer game you wanted to play is preventing you from doing so while it's busy 'crafting'.
That is why some people are calling this a grind - no because of how long it takes to progress in this game, but because of how boring the process is.
I think its completly hilarious the people that talk like "What an MMO should be" when refering to grind or whatever you consider dificult.
People treat games like they make part of it or its their own property...then they speak about wow players, they are this and that.
After playing mmo's for LONG LONG years and tryed almost everything out there, I still find myself going back to wow sometimes and have a lot of fun.
So, let me speak about MMO players that happens to not like wow and bash it. They dont know what the word MMO means by saying "what an mmo should be"... MMO's dont need to be hard to be MMO's, dont need to have fast or slow lvling, dont need to be themepark or sandbox or whatever words you make everyday. Dont need to be fantasy or sci-fi or western, or vampires or whatever. MMO's can be anything!!! Now its up to you to decide what you like to play.
Also, before throwing rocks at other ppl, you better cover your roofs made of glass, because people will send some rocks back at you. I find so agressive and stupid any person that can't see behind his illusional perfect MMO world and understand that there are tastes for every kind. And if its generalized accusation about wow players to be easy mode, dumb or stupid, look yourself at a mirror and evaluate your words and see what you look like. HEY!! Your just sound like those or worse.
Now, my personal opinion about Aion, never played... but i want too. But before going to pay 50euros to someone, I prefer to wait a bit longer. Tho, I played Lineage 2 for a long time and I can imagine what can be like when people cry about a lot of grind and bots around. Also, I'm dont give a crap at any review in this site or any other.... cause tbh... probably those guys making the review, are most likely to be receiving something for it
)) And that smells terribad right from the start.
And imho, having a large variaty of quests to lvl up its allways positive. Since no one made grinding illegal, you can just do it or quest. But when grind is the main focus to lvl up cause lack of enough quests.... in this days of the 21 century, the idea i get is "lack of content". I can be terrible wrong, but having a LOT of quests was actually a step forward in MMO genre. Now its up to you, to do them or not.
See you all soon when some trial starts
)
Yes
In case you don't get what grind truly means i will explain it to you.
Granted that almost every MMO has a good degree of grinding in it, what makes a good MMORPG from a bad or average (Aion) MMORPG, is how the game masks the grind.
With Aion after level 20 there is no attempt to mask the grinding and the game become very tedious for a good number of people.
Of course is not everyione who gets bored to death with this type of grind, people like you still likes it, fair enough.
But the fact that you are able to reach lvl 50 in a month because you play 24 hours a day, doesn't make the game any less of a grinder.
It is an Asian MMO based purely on the Asian MMO model. The fact that it had a good viral launch in the west doesn't change that. Asian MMOs are about the grind....
By this time next year, the herd of MMO lemmings will have moved on.
Lol, you have forgotten the Jedi Hand wave "there is no grind... Aion is the perfect game".
Alas it works only on the weak minded, heh.
OP:
Tell you what...
It's not the time it takes, it's what you DO meanwhile that counts.
If I were to sit here pressing simply "1" for one hour, and hit level cap by doing so, I would call it a grind. Because the entertainment value was so low and the repetetive factor was so high.
So, grind, no matter if it takes a month or a year, still depends on what you actually do and how much fun it is. Agree?
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http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I think maybe people are getting grind and boring mixed up. Er wait.
As does "Hatorade" I'm told.
Basically this.
What may be a "grind" to someone may be really freaking fun to another. Aion has a grind, WoW has a grind, DAOC has a grind, it's which grind you like to participate in and have fun doing is what matters.
Basically this.
What may be a "grind" to someone may be really freaking fun to another. Aion has a grind, WoW has a grind, DAOC has a grind, it's which grind you like to participate in and have fun doing is what matters.
So are you saying that the time it takes to level is irrelevant?
It is a factor and since it is possible to reach the cap in one month the game cant be much of a grind. If you feel that 1 month is too much to reach the level cap then maybe you dont like the game to begin with and 1 week would be too much.
The point is that if it takes a dedicated player 1 month to hit the level cap then you can for sure say that leveling in this game isnt all that slow.
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