At least you have the time to spend a few hours on forums question82. Btw, your posts about "leet kiddies" sounds just as bad as theirs. Same attitude, opposite thoughts. Just on the other end of the spectrum.
I want to start off saying i canceled my FFXI account last year due too SE raping everything about the game to make it more casual..... as a black mage at lvl 68 i was forced to solo after the Tresures xpac and i do mean forced because everyone wanted to fight imp that res magic... and SE would NOT help the Black mages... sooo i was forced to pick up ninja and solo.... i noticed a change ... soon War/nin DrK/nin pld/nin solo had become the games main way to gain exp because certain classes where not aloud in the "Perfect" party and SE aloud this change shunning many of the great classes of the game because they dident lead to instant progression FFXI became the most unbalanced cry baby game yes a time sink still but nothing hard core the community feel apart right with each Xpac sense CoP FFXI is a crap and i have a bad feeling SE will have learned nothing from destroy a great game... they they will just give us another pile .....
sooo yes i do think this will target the casuals because they tried to draw in more casuals into FFXI
You're talking about two different things here, dumbing down a game and making a game more casual friendly. They're not one and the same. I'd like to see them make the game playable in 2-3 hour stints, but I still want the game challenging.
Majority of games post-WoW production have become more and more solo friendly and appealing to the non-gamer crowd and quite frankly my answer is no. If I wanted a WoW style game, there are so many other choices on the market that offer that style of gameplay but the ones that offer more in depth and meaningful grouping aspects are going the way of the dinosaur.
This is not to say that I want the game to be exactly like FFXI when it first release; major restraints on any form of soloing for a lot of classes and punishments for attempting to break the "standard" mold. I like the balance that is FFXI in current time, where meaningful grouping still exists and is still the most effecient and rewarded way to level, but it offers the ability to solo "somewhat" on the side and still make progress without being too harshly punished for wanting to do so.
I just never understand why people are so obsessed with trying to make every game similar to WoW, then in turn complain when it's too similar. Companies need to stop targetting this player base and stick to a design vision that fits their game, not mold it around another. If you want to take anything from Blizzard, take their level of polish (bug free/working content although that has been subjective in the past too) not their game design.
Majority of games post-WoW production have become more and more solo friendly and appealing to the non-gamer crowd and quite frankly my answer is no. If I wanted a WoW style game, there are so many other choices on the market that offer that style of gameplay but the ones that offer more in depth and meaningful grouping aspects are going the way of the dinosaur. This is not to say that I want the game to be exactly like FFXI when it first release; major restraints on any form of soloing for a lot of classes and punishments for attempting to break the "standard" mold. I like the balance that is FFXI in current time, where meaningful grouping still exists and is still the most effecient and rewarded way to level, but it offers the ability to solo "somewhat" on the side and still make progress without being too harshly punished for wanting to do so. I just never understand why people are so obsessed with trying to make every game similar to WoW, then in turn complain when it's too similar. Companies need to stop targetting this player base and stick to a design vision that fits their game, not mold it around another. If you want to take anything from Blizzard, take their level of polish (bug free/working content although that has been subjective in the past too) not their game design.
While WoW offered you a viable alternative to grouping, WoW was very group oriented. They offered the best game experience and loot to those that leveled up in the instance dungeons, which started at lvl 9 on the Horde side, and 16 on the Alliance side. After those initial levels, a variety of instances could be done to level up in a group from that point till 80. Then you have Heroics, 10 and 25 man raids. Just because a game offers a viable and easy solo option, doesn't mean the game was a solo game. In fact, people who choose to can level up by grouping.
I just never understand why people are so obsessed with trying to make every game similar to WoW, then in turn complain when it's too similar. Companies need to stop targetting this player base and stick to a design vision that fits their game, not mold it around another. If you want to take anything from Blizzard, take their level of polish (bug free/working content although that has been subjective in the past too) not their game design.
You know what's more annoying than people being obsessed with making every game similar to WoW? People who obsessively look reasons to claim any new game being made is a copy of WoW. The same people come up with bizarre attacks and justifications for why all new games are just like WoW, even when they blatantly aren't. "Those designers aren't sticking to a vision," "they only care about money," etc. etc. It's as tiresome as it is ridiculous.
From what I've seen the designers of FFXIV have a clear vision of what they want the game to be like. Just about the only thing "wow-like" is that they want the game to not punish people who don't have a lot of time in one sitting. That's just about it (beyond even more generic stuff). If you bothered to read what the developers say, it is clear they have a pretty good idea of what they want the game to be like. Instead of that though, a lot of people just seem to be looking for things to freak out about as well as the standard elitist attacks on casual gamers (which could also be considered attacks on busy gamers). People need to stop assuming their fear-based conclusions are true, looking for bits to support it, and ignoring everything to the contrary.
I would definitely like it if they made it a little more casual player friendly. I mean as players grow older and such they develop more and more responsibilities limiting the time they can devote to a game so by making a little bit more casual friendly may pull in more players in the long run. One problem I did have with FFXI was that if you didn't play for a month your character was deleted. I personally hated this feature because I like to jump around and play pretty much every new mmo that comes out to see how they play; now to delete a character that I work so hard on, only discourages me as a player/customer I only hope that when this comes out this will not be a feature in the game. Another problem I had with FFXI was the lack of quests in the game, there was only a handful of quests and most of the game revolved around grinding. Now before people get on me for QQing about grinding; I've grinded before in Everquest one of first MMOs, which the only way to level was to grind, but that was then and this is now. We've come a long way from those games and a little more side story couldn't hurt, I enjoy reading quest text and learning more about the world, but when a game only has grinding what's the point? Having an NPC ask you to kill some snakes or something because they need materials to make boots adds to the immersion a little; killing crawlers ten thousand times not so much. I'm not asking the dev's to dumb this game down to retard level like WoW, by adding in all these things to make you level up faster like rested exp, bonus exp weekends, recruit a friend, and all that nonsense, but maybe just make things a tad bit more casual player friendly.
I personally get sick of having to quest to level. That is right, in all games now it is forced. I would like questing to be optional. I preferred EQs styled instead. I believe we went backwards not forwards in this genre in a lot of respects. I don't need quest, I can adventure freely and make my own quest without an NPC telling me to do so. I want a game that quest give no xp just rewards so they become optional.
I prefer to hunt monster for their valuable goods or adventure into caverns and dungeons to see what is in there.
I tried FFXI. It seemed like it was tailored to people who spend all their free time on that game alone. I like MMOs, but i need something a little more exciting, a little faster, something I can play without having to devote my soul to it.
Then I tried WoW. It was a little more exciting, faster paced, and I could play a couple hours here and there a couple days a week and have fun. But after a few months it got repetative. The quests were, as stated by other people, the same 'go kill something and bring x number of whatever back'. I've been on and off that game over the last few years, but it's closer to what I'd want in an MMO than FFXI is.
I guess I may be too picky or impatient or whatever to play an MMO, but the thing is that I do enjoy the time i spend playing them enough to justify paying a subscription fee so long as it feels rewarding. I am a casual gamer, and I'd really like to see FFXIV hit that middle ground where people with tons of free time and people with only an hour or so to spare per day can all enjoy the game and not feel bored or overwhelmed. It's a difficult thing to produce that kind of game (obviously since there are hardly any at all) and I hope SE manages to pull it off.
Whatever this game ends up being, I'm looking forward to giving it a shot.
I just never understand why people are so obsessed with trying to make every game similar to WoW, then in turn complain when it's too similar. Companies need to stop targetting this player base and stick to a design vision that fits their game, not mold it around another. If you want to take anything from Blizzard, take their level of polish (bug free/working content although that has been subjective in the past too) not their game design.
You know what's more annoying than people being obsessed with making every game similar to WoW? People who obsessively look reasons to claim any new game being made is a copy of WoW. The same people come up with bizarre attacks and justifications for why all new games are just like WoW, even when they blatantly aren't. "Those designers aren't sticking to a vision," "they only care about money," etc. etc. It's as tiresome as it is ridiculous.
From what I've seen the designers of FFXIV have a clear vision of what they want the game to be like. Just about the only thing "wow-like" is that they want the game to not punish people who don't have a lot of time in one sitting. That's just about it (beyond even more generic stuff). If you bothered to read what the developers say, it is clear they have a pretty good idea of what they want the game to be like. Instead of that though, a lot of people just seem to be looking for things to freak out about as well as the standard elitist attacks on casual gamers (which could also be considered attacks on busy gamers). People need to stop assuming their fear-based conclusions are true, looking for bits to support it, and ignoring everything to the contrary.
Well, if you bothered to look at the trend since WoW came into the market, majority of games being produced are going down that similar path of easier gameplay/dumbed down content/solo friendly majority of the game etc etc. Instead of understanding my basis, you decied to stand on your soapbox and act as if I was assuming this was the case. I never said it "WAS" going to be a copy, but this very thread has the same game in the title (IE a comparison) asking if we, the potential playerbase, want it to be similar to WoW in terms of casual gameplay.
My response stands; if you want an MMO that you can solo all the way to end game without ever thinking or grouping once there are plenty of games out there for you. It's not that I am opposed to solo-friendly content or even something that can be done in short amounts of time as long as it does not detract from meaningful group style gameplay. I'm a lone wolf at heart in these types of games, but I absolutely love grouping in FFXI.
But then again, if you bothered to read my post you would see that I never once "attacked casual gamers" or even assumed that Square Enix was one of those companies targetting the flaky WoW playerbase.
Hell F***ING NO!. WoW being so casual friendly has ruined the mmorpg market. Honestly if its not simmlar to FF11 it'll lose my interest, I don't want YAWC (Yet another wow clone). I don't mind some casual content, but still have the quests and missions take alot of people, and also have solo exp be fairly low (but doable, maybe 4x lower than a party if not more) compared to a party.
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
TAABOTSC
Twice as awesome because of the semi colon
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
I hope that it is casual enough to be able to jump in for 20mins-1hour and still make progress. Nothing worse than being forced to play for minimum times all the time.
I also hope they shamelessly rip off all the awesome UI elements that blizzard have perfected. No reason to go backwards with the UI.
I think SE will surprise (and please) the majority of us with 14
In wow to really be top you have to raid hours on end, and be in a hardcore raiding guild who demands you be there at a certain time. I dont think wow has done much for casual gamers. If FFXIV is anything like FFXI i will personally be satisfied.
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
The only thing I really want in Final Fantasy XIV is to change the controls similar to WoW and other MMORPG. Like moving with WASD and jump with the spacebar instead of number pad. Numberpad is so complicating, that's what made me quit FFXI within the first week.
This is when you go to your local electronics store and buy a logitech dual action gamepad, its a replica of a ps2 controller for the pc. Problem solved. They are also cheap like 15-20 bucks, I've had one for years and it still works fine.
The only thing I really want in Final Fantasy XIV is to change the controls similar to WoW and other MMORPG. Like moving with WASD and jump with the spacebar instead of number pad. Numberpad is so complicating, that's what made me quit FFXI within the first week.
This is when you go to your local electronics store and buy a logitech dual action gamepad, its a replica of a ps2 controller for the pc. Problem solved. They are also cheap like 15-20 bucks, I've had one for years and it still works fine.
I got a PS2 to USB adapter and just use my dualshock 2...
Actually, currently I use my dualshock 3 over bluetooth. But that's me.
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
I am very concerned about this from the E3 Q&A: Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
From my persective FFXI was very rewarding because it was not dumbed down. So I guess I am asking:
FFXI was and is an amazing game. This is because of the complexity, not in spite of it.
The problem with coming out with new games is as we all wait for them to be developed, we can't help but wonder what they're going to be like. Are they going to be YAWC (hah!) like LOTRO, or something for the RPers like HJ (if it were actually going to be released) or something complex like FFXI.
I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and have noticed the influence of WOW on each of them. Except FFXI, since it was released before WOW. Here's the problem... You're a game developer, and you have 500,000 subscribers. You think you did pretty good for yourself. It's steadily dropping, as usual, but you did good. A good solid game and you're getting compensated very well for that hard work.
You look over and see WOW with thier millions of subscribers and now your 500k just doesn't seem like enough to keep you happy anymore. Now you want to take away some of those guys from WOW. How do you do that? Well you make YAWC (hah!), and now you can steal some of those players away! That's the way to do it!
Every single employee on every single game needs to have written on their cubicle or office wall the immortal words of Henry Ford. "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse". Listen to your customers, SE... Listen to your potential customers... But do what all good games, all good TV shows, and all good products in history have always done... Your own thing.
TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.
I am very concerned about this from the E3 Q&A: Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?
A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.
From my persective FFXI was very rewarding because it was not dumbed down. So I guess I am asking:
FFXI was and is an amazing game. This is because of the complexity, not in spite of it.
The problem with coming out with new games is as we all wait for them to be developed, we can't help but wonder what they're going to be like. Are they going to be YAWC (hah!) like LOTRO, or something for the RPers like HJ (if it were actually going to be released) or something complex like FFXI.
I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and have noticed the influence of WOW on each of them. Except FFXI, since it was released before WOW. Here's the problem... You're a game developer, and you have 500,000 subscribers. You think you did pretty good for yourself. It's steadily dropping, as usual, but you did good. A good solid game and you're getting compensated very well for that hard work.
You look over and see WOW with thier millions of subscribers and now your 500k just doesn't seem like enough to keep you happy anymore. Now you want to take away some of those guys from WOW. How do you do that? Well you make YAWC (hah!), and now you can steal some of those players away! That's the way to do it!
Every single employee on every single game needs to have written on their cubicle or office wall the immortal words of Henry Ford. "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse". Listen to your customers, SE... Listen to your potential customers... But do what all good games, all good TV shows, and all good products in history have always done... Your own thing.
TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.
Abbreviations done right ... for the most part.
I'll still throw out there than first off making up a abbreviation like that is retarded to begin with. Equally as retarded as calling game WoW clones to begin with. Some might warrant it. Others do not.
Question for you, Vale: Why do you consider LOTRO a wow clone? Not attacking you or anything; I'm just curious.
Is it because it is
1) in a 3d World
2) where you look from a 3rd person perpective on your character
3) you have levels
4) you have and icon/action bar to and you use your mouse to click abilities
5) you walk with WASD
6) You have quests
... I am trying to think of more similarities but I really can't.
And i do have to agree with how bad FFXIV will be if they add a whiny "omg my life is terrible and my wife left me be I got high and had a dream about you so you obviously love me since i'm the guy you never met before but you can't walk and you died and so I found my ex wife and got back with her and I had a serial killer in my head and omg my life is terrible" bitch-ass Matt Parkman ... One truly good episode so far this season ... the one he died. I don't even get a full episode of happiness before they bring his sorry ass back ...
Originally posted by ic0n67 Abbreviations done right ... for the most part. I'll still throw out there than first off making up a abbreviation like that is retarded to begin with. Equally as retarded as calling game WoW clones to begin with. Some might warrant it. Others do not. Question for you, Vale: Why do you consider LOTRO a wow clone? Not attacking you or anything; I'm just curious. Is it because it is 1) in a 3d World 2) where you look from a 3rd person perpective on your character 3) you have levels 4) you have and icon/action bar to and you use your mouse to click abilities 5) you walk with WASD 6) You have quests ... I am trying to think of more similarities but I really can't. And i do have to agree with how bad FFXIV will be if they add a whiny "omg my life is terrible and my wife left me be I got high and had a dream about you so you obviously love me since i'm the guy you never met before but you can't walk and you died and so I found my ex wife and got back with her and I had a serial killer in my head and omg my life is terrible" bitch-ass Matt Parkman ... One truly good episode so far this season ... the one he died. I don't even get a full episode of happiness before they bring his sorry ass back ... EDIT: thought of another one 7) Mining nodes
Have you ever played FFXI? THAT is not a WOW clone.
LOTRO is a WOW clone because of three main characteristics that I can think of off the top of my head.
1) Interface. It's not just the wasd (as I move with the keypad, anyway). It's the entire look and feel of the game. You have 5 bags for your inventory which pops up identically, the NPC buy/sell/repair screen is identical, the skill icons in skill bars are identical, the group HP bars, targeting, minimap with little buttons around the edges, on-screen xp bar, chat windows... the look and feel of the game is the exact same as WOW. I bet I could make a LOTRO interface that looks so good, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
2) NPC-based economy. You sell items specifically given to you for the purpose of selling to NPCs for gold. I think this is the crux of the problem with most WOW clones, and what FFXI specifically did right that other makers should copy IT for. You can have a stable, thriving, and fair game economy with just some hard work on the design stage. a Player based economy is far superior to an NPC based one.
3) Quest-based XP. If you want to level up in LOTRO and WOW, you have quests. You can get far more XP/hour by questing than you can by killing things, or really anything else you can do. WOW is designed that way and LOTRO copied it. This causes solo play to be far preferred to group play as you can level up faster and get far more loot for your efforts.
Now if all you've played is EQ2, WOW, and LOTRO, then ya... LOTRO seems like it's not a WOW clone. EQ2--WOW----LOTRO--------------------------------------------------------FFXI But if you add FFXI into your experience, it will quickly highlight the similarities.
TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.
Off topic: I cant stand Heros, its a straight rip off of X-men.
Everything's a ripoff of something. Very few original ideas exist. The first season of Heroes was very good. It's been limping along off the strength off that first season for years.
TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.
Off topic:
I cant stand Heros, its a straight rip off of X-men.
Everything's a ripoff of something. Very few original ideas exist. The first season of Heroes was very good. It's been limping along off the strength off that first season for years.
>.> hang on ... you know this and accept this and you still call LORTO a clone of WOW?
Long story short on Wednesday night I typed a nice long counter argument to your last post. Lost of example inside and outside the realm of gaming. Talked about industry standards and such . It was really amazing if I do say so myself. Took nearly 3 hours. I ended up accidently hitting a link and it erased everything I wrote... I basically cried myself to sleep that night.
Any yes ... I have played FFXI ... since NA launch ... I probably have played more longer and more often than you ... just saying. http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=19030
Comments
At least you have the time to spend a few hours on forums question82. Btw, your posts about "leet kiddies" sounds just as bad as theirs. Same attitude, opposite thoughts. Just on the other end of the spectrum.
I want to start off saying i canceled my FFXI account last year due too SE raping everything about the game to make it more casual..... as a black mage at lvl 68 i was forced to solo after the Tresures xpac and i do mean forced because everyone wanted to fight imp that res magic... and SE would NOT help the Black mages... sooo i was forced to pick up ninja and solo.... i noticed a change ... soon War/nin DrK/nin pld/nin solo had become the games main way to gain exp because certain classes where not aloud in the "Perfect" party and SE aloud this change shunning many of the great classes of the game because they dident lead to instant progression FFXI became the most unbalanced cry baby game yes a time sink still but nothing hard core the community feel apart right with each Xpac sense CoP FFXI is a crap and i have a bad feeling SE will have learned nothing from destroy a great game... they they will just give us another pile .....
sooo yes i do think this will target the casuals because they tried to draw in more casuals into FFXI
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
Anyone who said ''yes'' should just die!
IMO you have no idea about whats an FPS too. You should also ask others "whats an FPS" ?
FPS sands for (F)irst (P)erson (P)erspective and has nothing to do with a game is sandbox or not.
Credits to DarthRaiden
You're talking about two different things here, dumbing down a game and making a game more casual friendly. They're not one and the same. I'd like to see them make the game playable in 2-3 hour stints, but I still want the game challenging.
Majority of games post-WoW production have become more and more solo friendly and appealing to the non-gamer crowd and quite frankly my answer is no. If I wanted a WoW style game, there are so many other choices on the market that offer that style of gameplay but the ones that offer more in depth and meaningful grouping aspects are going the way of the dinosaur.
This is not to say that I want the game to be exactly like FFXI when it first release; major restraints on any form of soloing for a lot of classes and punishments for attempting to break the "standard" mold. I like the balance that is FFXI in current time, where meaningful grouping still exists and is still the most effecient and rewarded way to level, but it offers the ability to solo "somewhat" on the side and still make progress without being too harshly punished for wanting to do so.
I just never understand why people are so obsessed with trying to make every game similar to WoW, then in turn complain when it's too similar. Companies need to stop targetting this player base and stick to a design vision that fits their game, not mold it around another. If you want to take anything from Blizzard, take their level of polish (bug free/working content although that has been subjective in the past too) not their game design.
While WoW offered you a viable alternative to grouping, WoW was very group oriented. They offered the best game experience and loot to those that leveled up in the instance dungeons, which started at lvl 9 on the Horde side, and 16 on the Alliance side. After those initial levels, a variety of instances could be done to level up in a group from that point till 80. Then you have Heroics, 10 and 25 man raids. Just because a game offers a viable and easy solo option, doesn't mean the game was a solo game. In fact, people who choose to can level up by grouping.
You know what's more annoying than people being obsessed with making every game similar to WoW? People who obsessively look reasons to claim any new game being made is a copy of WoW. The same people come up with bizarre attacks and justifications for why all new games are just like WoW, even when they blatantly aren't. "Those designers aren't sticking to a vision," "they only care about money," etc. etc. It's as tiresome as it is ridiculous.
From what I've seen the designers of FFXIV have a clear vision of what they want the game to be like. Just about the only thing "wow-like" is that they want the game to not punish people who don't have a lot of time in one sitting. That's just about it (beyond even more generic stuff). If you bothered to read what the developers say, it is clear they have a pretty good idea of what they want the game to be like. Instead of that though, a lot of people just seem to be looking for things to freak out about as well as the standard elitist attacks on casual gamers (which could also be considered attacks on busy gamers). People need to stop assuming their fear-based conclusions are true, looking for bits to support it, and ignoring everything to the contrary.
I personally get sick of having to quest to level. That is right, in all games now it is forced. I would like questing to be optional. I preferred EQs styled instead. I believe we went backwards not forwards in this genre in a lot of respects. I don't need quest, I can adventure freely and make my own quest without an NPC telling me to do so. I want a game that quest give no xp just rewards so they become optional.
I prefer to hunt monster for their valuable goods or adventure into caverns and dungeons to see what is in there.
I tried FFXI. It seemed like it was tailored to people who spend all their free time on that game alone. I like MMOs, but i need something a little more exciting, a little faster, something I can play without having to devote my soul to it.
Then I tried WoW. It was a little more exciting, faster paced, and I could play a couple hours here and there a couple days a week and have fun. But after a few months it got repetative. The quests were, as stated by other people, the same 'go kill something and bring x number of whatever back'. I've been on and off that game over the last few years, but it's closer to what I'd want in an MMO than FFXI is.
I guess I may be too picky or impatient or whatever to play an MMO, but the thing is that I do enjoy the time i spend playing them enough to justify paying a subscription fee so long as it feels rewarding. I am a casual gamer, and I'd really like to see FFXIV hit that middle ground where people with tons of free time and people with only an hour or so to spare per day can all enjoy the game and not feel bored or overwhelmed. It's a difficult thing to produce that kind of game (obviously since there are hardly any at all) and I hope SE manages to pull it off.
Whatever this game ends up being, I'm looking forward to giving it a shot.
You know what's more annoying than people being obsessed with making every game similar to WoW? People who obsessively look reasons to claim any new game being made is a copy of WoW. The same people come up with bizarre attacks and justifications for why all new games are just like WoW, even when they blatantly aren't. "Those designers aren't sticking to a vision," "they only care about money," etc. etc. It's as tiresome as it is ridiculous.
From what I've seen the designers of FFXIV have a clear vision of what they want the game to be like. Just about the only thing "wow-like" is that they want the game to not punish people who don't have a lot of time in one sitting. That's just about it (beyond even more generic stuff). If you bothered to read what the developers say, it is clear they have a pretty good idea of what they want the game to be like. Instead of that though, a lot of people just seem to be looking for things to freak out about as well as the standard elitist attacks on casual gamers (which could also be considered attacks on busy gamers). People need to stop assuming their fear-based conclusions are true, looking for bits to support it, and ignoring everything to the contrary.
Well, if you bothered to look at the trend since WoW came into the market, majority of games being produced are going down that similar path of easier gameplay/dumbed down content/solo friendly majority of the game etc etc. Instead of understanding my basis, you decied to stand on your soapbox and act as if I was assuming this was the case. I never said it "WAS" going to be a copy, but this very thread has the same game in the title (IE a comparison) asking if we, the potential playerbase, want it to be similar to WoW in terms of casual gameplay.
My response stands; if you want an MMO that you can solo all the way to end game without ever thinking or grouping once there are plenty of games out there for you. It's not that I am opposed to solo-friendly content or even something that can be done in short amounts of time as long as it does not detract from meaningful group style gameplay. I'm a lone wolf at heart in these types of games, but I absolutely love grouping in FFXI.
But then again, if you bothered to read my post you would see that I never once "attacked casual gamers" or even assumed that Square Enix was one of those companies targetting the flaky WoW playerbase.
Hell F***ING NO!. WoW being so casual friendly has ruined the mmorpg market. Honestly if its not simmlar to FF11 it'll lose my interest, I don't want YAWC (Yet another wow clone). I don't mind some casual content, but still have the quests and missions take alot of people, and also have solo exp be fairly low (but doable, maybe 4x lower than a party if not more) compared to a party.
WWYMUAAFAPYJMU?TYDSLTWTPIWKOYUIMTIYW.IIUTSTATL;NAWLYD
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
WWYMUAAFAPYJMU?TYDSLTWTPIWKOYUIMTIYW.IIUTSTATL;NAWLYD
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
TAABOTSC
Twice as awesome because of the semi colon
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
I hope that it is casual enough to be able to jump in for 20mins-1hour and still make progress. Nothing worse than being forced to play for minimum times all the time.
I also hope they shamelessly rip off all the awesome UI elements that blizzard have perfected. No reason to go backwards with the UI.
I think SE will surprise (and please) the majority of us with 14
In wow to really be top you have to raid hours on end, and be in a hardcore raiding guild who demands you be there at a certain time. I dont think wow has done much for casual gamers. If FFXIV is anything like FFXI i will personally be satisfied.
WWYMUAAFAPYJMU?TYDSLTWTPIWKOYUIMTIYW.IIUTSTATL;NAWLYD
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
TAABOTSC
Twice as awesome because of the semi colon
I am so making a mule named Taabotsc in FFXIV
This is when you go to your local electronics store and buy a logitech dual action gamepad, its a replica of a ps2 controller for the pc. Problem solved. They are also cheap like 15-20 bucks, I've had one for years and it still works fine.
This is when you go to your local electronics store and buy a logitech dual action gamepad, its a replica of a ps2 controller for the pc. Problem solved. They are also cheap like 15-20 bucks, I've had one for years and it still works fine.
I got a PS2 to USB adapter and just use my dualshock 2...
Actually, currently I use my dualshock 3 over bluetooth. But that's me.
WWYMUAAFAPYJMU?TYDSLTWTPIWKOYUIMTIYW.IIUTSTATL;NAWLYD
(Why would you make up an abbreviation for a phrase you just made up? Typically you do something like this when the phrase is well known or you use it multiple times in your writing. It is used to save time and type less; not add words like you did. )
To be fair, I've seen YAWC before. Many times...
FFXI was and is an amazing game. This is because of the complexity, not in spite of it.
The problem with coming out with new games is as we all wait for them to be developed, we can't help but wonder what they're going to be like. Are they going to be YAWC (hah!) like LOTRO, or something for the RPers like HJ (if it were actually going to be released) or something complex like FFXI.
I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and have noticed the influence of WOW on each of them. Except FFXI, since it was released before WOW. Here's the problem... You're a game developer, and you have 500,000 subscribers. You think you did pretty good for yourself. It's steadily dropping, as usual, but you did good. A good solid game and you're getting compensated very well for that hard work.
You look over and see WOW with thier millions of subscribers and now your 500k just doesn't seem like enough to keep you happy anymore. Now you want to take away some of those guys from WOW. How do you do that? Well you make YAWC (hah!), and now you can steal some of those players away! That's the way to do it!
Every single employee on every single game needs to have written on their cubicle or office wall the immortal words of Henry Ford. "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse". Listen to your customers, SE... Listen to your potential customers... But do what all good games, all good TV shows, and all good products in history have always done... Your own thing.
TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.
FFXI was and is an amazing game. This is because of the complexity, not in spite of it.
The problem with coming out with new games is as we all wait for them to be developed, we can't help but wonder what they're going to be like. Are they going to be YAWC (hah!) like LOTRO, or something for the RPers like HJ (if it were actually going to be released) or something complex like FFXI.
I've been playing a lot of MMOs lately and have noticed the influence of WOW on each of them. Except FFXI, since it was released before WOW. Here's the problem... You're a game developer, and you have 500,000 subscribers. You think you did pretty good for yourself. It's steadily dropping, as usual, but you did good. A good solid game and you're getting compensated very well for that hard work.
You look over and see WOW with thier millions of subscribers and now your 500k just doesn't seem like enough to keep you happy anymore. Now you want to take away some of those guys from WOW. How do you do that? Well you make YAWC (hah!), and now you can steal some of those players away! That's the way to do it!
Every single employee on every single game needs to have written on their cubicle or office wall the immortal words of Henry Ford. "If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse". Listen to your customers, SE... Listen to your potential customers... But do what all good games, all good TV shows, and all good products in history have always done... Your own thing.
TV shows all go down hill when writers start listening to producers. Don't let what happened to Heroes happen to FF, SE. Do it right.
Abbreviations done right ... for the most part.
I'll still throw out there than first off making up a abbreviation like that is retarded to begin with. Equally as retarded as calling game WoW clones to begin with. Some might warrant it. Others do not.
Question for you, Vale: Why do you consider LOTRO a wow clone? Not attacking you or anything; I'm just curious.
Is it because it is
1) in a 3d World
2) where you look from a 3rd person perpective on your character
3) you have levels
4) you have and icon/action bar to and you use your mouse to click abilities
5) you walk with WASD
6) You have quests
... I am trying to think of more similarities but I really can't.
And i do have to agree with how bad FFXIV will be if they add a whiny "omg my life is terrible and my wife left me be I got high and had a dream about you so you obviously love me since i'm the guy you never met before but you can't walk and you died and so I found my ex wife and got back with her and I had a serial killer in my head and omg my life is terrible" bitch-ass Matt Parkman ... One truly good episode so far this season ... the one he died. I don't even get a full episode of happiness before they bring his sorry ass back ...
EDIT:
thought of another one
7) Mining nodes
Have you ever played FFXI? THAT is not a WOW clone.
LOTRO is a WOW clone because of three main characteristics that I can think of off the top of my head.
1) Interface. It's not just the wasd (as I move with the keypad, anyway). It's the entire look and feel of the game. You have 5 bags for your inventory which pops up identically, the NPC buy/sell/repair screen is identical, the skill icons in skill bars are identical, the group HP bars, targeting, minimap with little buttons around the edges, on-screen xp bar, chat windows... the look and feel of the game is the exact same as WOW. I bet I could make a LOTRO interface that looks so good, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
2) NPC-based economy. You sell items specifically given to you for the purpose of selling to NPCs for gold. I think this is the crux of the problem with most WOW clones, and what FFXI specifically did right that other makers should copy IT for. You can have a stable, thriving, and fair game economy with just some hard work on the design stage. a Player based economy is far superior to an NPC based one.
3) Quest-based XP. If you want to level up in LOTRO and WOW, you have quests. You can get far more XP/hour by questing than you can by killing things, or really anything else you can do. WOW is designed that way and LOTRO copied it. This causes solo play to be far preferred to group play as you can level up faster and get far more loot for your efforts.
Now if all you've played is EQ2, WOW, and LOTRO, then ya... LOTRO seems like it's not a WOW clone.
EQ2--WOW----LOTRO--------------------------------------------------------FFXI
But if you add FFXI into your experience, it will quickly highlight the similarities.
Off topic:
I cant stand Heros, its a straight rip off of X-men.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Off topic:
I cant stand Heros, its a straight rip off of X-men.
Everything's a ripoff of something. Very few original ideas exist. The first season of Heroes was very good. It's been limping along off the strength off that first season for years.
>.> hang on ... you know this and accept this and you still call LORTO a clone of WOW?
Long story short on Wednesday night I typed a nice long counter argument to your last post. Lost of example inside and outside the realm of gaming. Talked about industry standards and such . It was really amazing if I do say so myself. Took nearly 3 hours. I ended up accidently hitting a link and it erased everything I wrote... I basically cried myself to sleep that night.
Any yes ... I have played FFXI ... since NA launch ... I probably have played more longer and more often than you ... just saying. http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=19030