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On Better Grouping Dynamics
Drachasor
Member Posts: 2,678
Right now I think group dynamics in MMOs are typically pretty bad. Some games have the Holy Trinity, which essentially punishes players by forcing overspecialization so that there is a big benefit to grouping. Other games try to avoid that and some work ok and others fail terribly. Grouping in all cases though is seldom as cool, interesting , or dynamic as it is in books, comics, and other media. Some might think it is impossible to make a game with that ability, but I think it is actually an achievable goal.
What We See in Fiction
In media, we often have heroes help each other out or use their abilities together in a way that is more than the some of their parts. You might have something as simple as Gimli being tossed onto the bad guys in the LotR, or two heroes just bashing two enemies into each other. Or you might have something that seems more elaborate such as two heroes with ranged energy attacks combining their abilities into something greater than the sum of the parts or even multiple characters combining their attacks in some complicated fashion (honestly an example escapes me at the moment, but I think we are are all familiar with a team all acting in concert each attacking aiding the next).
How We Could See It In MMOs
However, we don't really have this in any MMO (FFXI comes the closest as far as I am aware with skill chains, though LotRO has something somewhat similar I believe).* We largely have buffs meant to simulate this, but buffs aren't fun or interesting gameplay; they are a lame and simplistic attempt to improve grouping (as is HT, imho, but that's neither here nor there). What I'd like to see is an MMO where you can actively combine skills together to form something greater than what each skill could do separately (or even just combine a skill with someone else acting to just enhance it). Maybe you have a dwarf warrior who is charging and his ally grabs and spins him around, turning a single-target attack into an area attack (possible with knockback or knockdown). Or a bigger character tosses the dwarf, dramatically increasing the damage from the charge attack. Or one wizard freeze's the enemy's weapon and the other engulfs it with fire, causing the weapon to shatter (potentially damaging all enemies nearby with an AoE as well). The system should have dozens of possible effects for combos and numerous ways to achieve those effects (in the above example, if you have a ninja with elemental abilities, then his fire or ice would do just as well as a wizard). This would add a lot of tactical depth to the game, where properly utilizing combos in response to the enemy would greatly enhance your fighting capability. It also has the nice side benefit of making "zerging" a completely idiotic thing to do, since actually working as a group and having some degree of tactics would be very heavily rewarded (plus, it would be pretty bloody awesome to play, imho).
Overcoming Problems
Now, there are some obstacles to this, but they are relatively easily handled. First, minor lag issues could disrupt comboing. IF you have to activate a grab during the second or so of a charge to get the whirlwind charge effect, then that's no trivial task (and makes lag a killer). This can be fixed by making combos something you "announce" to the group. Then another group member can click on a box or otherwise declare he'll be taking part in the combo with the person who proposed it. Once all the spots are filled, the combo is enacted with all participating characters (each one doing the role they signed up for). This makes lag a much smaller issue, while still encouraging people to be fast (you don't want to waste time with the box hanging there). The other big problem I see is that some groups are going to be MUCH better than other groups at utilizing such a system. This means that the same content might be impossible for one group but trivial for another with the same party setup and gear, because the latter group works so much better together. This is also fairly easily handled by letting players increase the difficulty of all quests, dungeons, raids, etc. If you are really, really good, then you up the difficulty to the max and you get better rewards for being so awesome. (Might as well figure out a way to make quests scalable with party size while you are at it here, so that grouping while leveling isn't something that is punished as it is in many MMOs). Overall I think that fixes the main potential problems I see.
Well, I'm not a game designer or anything, but I thought I'd share this idea with the community here just to see what everyone thought.
*Chrono Trigger for the SNES would be an excellent example of this in an RPG setting, though obviously not an MMO.
Comments
Hmm, bump. Maybe my posts are just too long. : (
Perhaps try subheadings, which makes longer posts seem shorter.
Your idea is strikingly similar to EQ2's attempt with Heroic Opportunities. Basically, someone would start a HO and certain skills of each class would be able to advance it. If the chain was completed, the HO would complete and it would be an effect. They have Heals, DDs, Buffs, Debuffs, etc.
Sadly, they had troubles getting the players to work with the system, so they ended up dumbing it down a bit, so the idea never really took off in the game too well.
Your version has the group pre-selecting to do a combo where as the HO must be done on the fly and quickly during combat, which is why they had problems with the system. I think the idea of both is great, and hope it is expanded on in the future to better effect, particularly to be more visual (grabbing and throwing a 'dorf for example) as you have described.
There are games with great group dynamics, yet people still don't group. Too many artificial restrictions that cause "waiting", plus negatives placed on grouping for balance, makes the whole process frustrating, regardless of how great the content or group dynamics are. They need to design the game where the playerbase can determine where and how to have grouping hubs you go to and immediately get invites. Xp bonus', missions you run for cash or itmes to barter, the higher the group size, the more cash or items to barter, loosen up on the level and other restrictions would help and are just generic examples.
Group dynamics are wasted when everyone solo's. No one wants to be a drag on others, or waste time steam rolling content for newbs. If the game doesnt provide other people at the exact same level, wanting the exact same content, all at the exact time, you get to wait, or solo since there is nothing else to do.
Or just make it like WOW.
Just saying, yur ideas are fine, but what will make me wait, to do the only thing I can do in game, to form a group and get them together? Thats the problem that needs solving. Just my opinion that it's not the poor group dynamics causing this problem. It's the "forced waiting" grouping causes now a days.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I think if developers would stop look at classes as role filler grouping would be easier and much more dynamic that it currently is. If you read a good story with a group of heros it reads more like a hack and slash game like a diablo then the standard rpg. Look at pnp d&d (excluding 4th ed) how many of its classes couldn't stand at the front line and take some hits if it needed to. Clerics, paladins and fighters wore plate, rangers, bards, and rogues were dexterous, barbarians had health and damage reduction, wizards and sorcerers had many spells that would allow them to stand toe to toe with enemies just like the rest.
Plus:
You need to minimize the greed factor. If everyone is trying to out roll everyone else for loot that is already scarce that doesn't foster bring random people together. So you either need to minimize gear or give each person their own loot table roll per kill or chest and make the rewards you get invisible.
Well a good bit of that is the Holy Trinity system, in my experience. It's not that hard to find people that like grouping. It becomes much harder to find (in WoW for example) 3 dps, 1 tank, and 1 healer (and no more or less of either).
The other half of the coin is that games have tended to do one of two things. Require that you group to level or making soloing the better options. As examples FFXI took the former route and WoW takes the latter. In the former a lot of people get annoyed because groups aren't easy to form, and so people quit -- not to imply FFXI didn't do well financially, but that WAS a major problem it had and from what I understand still hasn't entirely fixed despite easing up on how easy it is to form groups. WoW takes the latter where you get hit with an experience hit if you group with a friend for leveling. The quests in WoW don't scale with difficulty either, so you are left doing things that are easy and don't give as much experience and sometimes even take long (random drop quests). Neither one of those is good.
I think moving towards having all quests able to scale with group size and getting rid of harsh group requirements would get rid of these problems. The former means you can group to do anything, and the latter means it is easy to form groups. When there are not barriers to grouping, then people do it just fine because doing things with others is fun. If the scaling is dynamic with group size then you could even start soloing, help someone out with something and join up to continue your quests (this sometimes even happens in games like WoW despite the fact it is punished...so it would be even more popular if the game didn't punish groupers).
Well, the problems are a bit different. D&D has the advantage of scaling difficulty with group size (done manually by the DM) which doesn't exist in (any?) MMOs, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. It also helps that the group is made beforehand and everyone is there to play together, though sometimes people still run off by themselves (again though, since the content is balanced for the group size there can be limits to how much you can do on your own, depending on the DM and such). You also don't have to compete with the jones's in a D&D game, because you are the only people in the world. If your teamwork sucks or even if the game doesn't have much room for teamwork (though D&D does have a good bit of room), then it doesn't really matter.
MMOs can duplicate some of this stuff (scaling quests and the like with party size from 1 to whatever). The teamwork thing is a bit trickier, especially with the real time nature of MMOs. Greed can be a problem too, but I've never have noticed it being a major one (and I played WoW for a couple years). I think that's a bit more of an itemization issue and an issue of repetitive content (raids, which could stand to be a bit more randomized for variety's sake, probably). That said, loot tables should probably at the very least just try to produce loot for the classes/whatever present in the raid/party at the time. That one thing would help a lot, though other improvements could be made too.
1. Hmm, so toss in some titles for different sections or something? I'll edit the OP with that then.
2. I think LOTRO has something similar (though you need a particular class to activate the system apparently and it is only there for boss battles or something, never got to it in the short time I played). Buffs and stuff are ok, I admit, but I am glad you agree with me that more visual awesomeness would really be nice (and more visual stuff even make it more tactical too, which can emphasize the importance of positioning).
Anyhow, skill chain stuff can be fun, but it is definitely a beginning of going in the right direction -- one problem is that a little lag can screw up the timing, which sucks...at least that is how it was in FFXI. That's probably fixable though.
3. Well, I was actually thinking that in a raid setting (or even a group) you could have multiple ones going on at once. Maybe a warrior upfront starts one and some other people join in to knock the mobs down, while some casters in the back start a couple to make some nasty area attacks on those mobs who can't move. So it could get to be pretty complicated in large groups (which is where a lot of depth in teamwork would be added). Even a 5-man group could potentially have 2-man and 3-man combos going off together.
What about things like forming a line of people using shields in order to storm an objective to block the rain of arrows or an equal buff. Or bow and arrow users form lines together and time shots to get major area attacks. Each class can further group with their others of the same class to do higher level attacks, spells, defensive buffs, ect..but require coordination to do.
know what im saying?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Well, the problems are a bit different. D&D has the advantage of scaling difficulty with group size (done manually by the DM) which doesn't exist in (any?) MMOs, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. It also helps that the group is made beforehand and everyone is there to play together, though sometimes people still run off by themselves (again though, since the content is balanced for the group size there can be limits to how much you can do on your own, depending on the DM and such). You also don't have to compete with the jones's in a D&D game, because you are the only people in the world. If your teamwork sucks or even if the game doesn't have much room for teamwork (though D&D does have a good bit of room), then it doesn't really matter.
MMOs can duplicate some of this stuff (scaling quests and the like with party size from 1 to whatever). The teamwork thing is a bit trickier, especially with the real time nature of MMOs. Greed can be a problem too, but I've never have noticed it being a major one (and I played WoW for a couple years). I think that's a bit more of an itemization issue and an issue of repetitive content (raids, which could stand to be a bit more randomized for variety's sake, probably). That said, loot tables should probably at the very least just try to produce loot for the classes/whatever present in the raid/party at the time. That one thing would help a lot, though other improvements could be made too.
Scaling for a group won't fix the issue. The classes in mmos do not function like the classes in d&d or even anything remotely realistic.
Well, the problems are a bit different. D&D has the advantage of scaling difficulty with group size (done manually by the DM) which doesn't exist in (any?) MMOs, but that doesn't mean it couldn't. It also helps that the group is made beforehand and everyone is there to play together, though sometimes people still run off by themselves (again though, since the content is balanced for the group size there can be limits to how much you can do on your own, depending on the DM and such). You also don't have to compete with the jones's in a D&D game, because you are the only people in the world. If your teamwork sucks or even if the game doesn't have much room for teamwork (though D&D does have a good bit of room), then it doesn't really matter.
MMOs can duplicate some of this stuff (scaling quests and the like with party size from 1 to whatever). The teamwork thing is a bit trickier, especially with the real time nature of MMOs. Greed can be a problem too, but I've never have noticed it being a major one (and I played WoW for a couple years). I think that's a bit more of an itemization issue and an issue of repetitive content (raids, which could stand to be a bit more randomized for variety's sake, probably). That said, loot tables should probably at the very least just try to produce loot for the classes/whatever present in the raid/party at the time. That one thing would help a lot, though other improvements could be made too.
LotRO has actually just introduced this exact feature, allowing the new instances to scale to group size (from 1 - 12 players) and level.
As for ways to encourage teamwork... I was actually thinking about this last night. I think the answer is to make it impossible for groups to defeat group encounters without using teamwork. Sure it's punishing but unless you force players to do it, they simply won't do it, because MMO players hate change and would rather stick to what they know. FFXIV is supposedly doing away with the holy trinity setup, but I guarantee people will still try to tank/dps/heal etc.
Some ideas I had would be to firstly give players skills they actually can't use on their own (like summoning rituals in WoW but combat oriented and a bit more complex to use than just clicking a portal) and have these skills do a LOT more damage than regular skills, I mean like a 10x multiplier here. Then give enemy group encounters an equal modifier on their health. This would actually be a realistic change since the weak attacks you use on some puny solo monster probably won't do much at all to an elite target in reality.
Now also do away with tanking mechanics, and instead replace them with collision detection and skills that allow you to move the target about a bit. This way any character that can sutain a beating can manually intercept attacks directed at the flimsier party members. Combat will be more chaotic and a lot more active as a result of this.
Now the only way to kill elite monsters is to use group based skills and co-ordination.
A couple of group only skills to use as an example:
Essentially the tl;dr version of this mini essay is: make group encounters use tactics on par with what we see in raid encounters. BUT have them used actively by the players, as opposed to typical raids which are almost entirely reactive based on what the boss is doing.
Hmm, no idea why I wrote so much... I'm sure there's some flaws in it, hehe.
EDIT: Give group mobs the same 10x multiplier to xp and have each player receive 100% of it, no more xp divided by number of party members. Have the levelling curve based on group combat. This way grouping is guaranteed to be more efficient, MUCH more efficient, but soloing is still possible.
Well, ideally it would be combined by getting rid of the Holy Trinity. Really I was trying to propose in my OP a list of things that done together, would alleviate the problems. Scaling for Group Size would work a lot better then.
That was an incredibly great post, and I don't mean to only quote the part I had a problem with (but I am only quoting the part I had a problem with). You don't need to make groups level faster if you just make grouping fun and easy to do. In my experience in MMOs people like teaming up and working together, particularly on the fly. It is just that MMOs tend to make grouping a hassle (hard to get the right setup because group composition requirements are harsh) and if you do it in a "solo" are then most mobs become a joke and the game is less fun (and there's an experience hit). Fix these problems and add some more fun to grouping (such as group-only abilities like we both have said) and there will be grouping all over the place, especially if you add some cool mechanics you only get to use while grouping.
I'm enjoying this discussion, but just an observation.
- Most casual players don't really have a dependable group of friends, so they're usually at the mercy of whoever's available to group. So, a group might be heavy on healing and light on damage for example (say 2 priest-types and a warrior). Or 4 mages (all ranged magic, crap melee defense).
I dunno how much bearing party composition should have, but it's not insignificant. Well, carry on.
" In Defeat, Malice; In Victory, Revenge! "
Well, ideally it would be combined by getting rid of the Holy Trinity. Really I was trying to propose in my OP a list of things that done together, would alleviate the problems. Scaling for Group Size would work a lot better then.
That was my point. You can't even begin to fix grouping with the ways a lot of mmo gamers and developers look at classes. For grouping to work it must be easy. Having to find (Y class at X (+/-) 2 to 3 levels) *( 5 or 6) overly complicates the issue and makes grouping more of a pain in the ass then it is worth.
Scaling, which would have to be done in a instance, wouldn't be bad but there needs to be more group activities outside of instances that lock you in for a couple hours. I personally hated wow instances because I hated feeling like i was locked in until the end. I think boss mobs are another terrible idea that has been taken from single player rgps.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
There are a couple features that have been done in the past that I think could create a more group friendly world without forcing out the people that aren't into grouping.
WoW battle grounds idea could be taken and expanded on to create a easy way to group up. You que up wait for all spots to be filled and bam instant group. I think a larger group like WoW battle group sizes would be better that way if someone had to go in the middle it wouldn't completely stop the party from rolling.
Guildwars and now DDO henchmen idea would be a great way to make a world group oriented by allow anyone to play. The henchmen in guildwars were never a good as a living person (well usually) but they were always there if you were short on time, missing one person, or just didn't feel like dealing with anyone.
That was my point. You can't even begin to fix grouping with the ways a lot of mmo gamers and developers look at classes. For grouping to work it must be easy. Having to find (Y class at X (+/-) 2 to 3 levels) *( 5 or 6) overly complicates the issue and makes grouping more of a pain in the ass then it is worth.
Scaling, which would have to be done in a instance, wouldn't be bad but there needs to be more group activities outside of instances that lock you in for a couple hours. I personally hated wow instances because I hated feeling like i was locked in until the end. I think boss mobs are another terrible idea that has been taken from single player rgps.
I play with my wife and friends, Usually by level 20 or so, we're all at different levels, we cant even group together. we group, then go solo alot. But unless we all agree not to play without each other (which we've tried)it's too hard to stay near each other to do the content at the times we need/want to do it. The sidekick thing in COH helped, but it still wasnt as fun being artificially made stronger..hard to explain why. I guess you feel less heroic.
Yes, this is another big issues that I always run into. I'm the slow leveler. I don't like rushing though everything just to get that next level. I think they should do away with the single class level system. I remember when I started play UO way back when. I would go out hunting with friends that had several gm skills under their belts but I could still go out and hunt with them without taking away from them.
Warhammers public quests were pretty good too. Hard to tell if they were a solution the way they implemented them though. Lotro skirmishes are a good step too. But both artificial. the skirmishes difficulty level can be scaled, but if scaled to help lowr level member, it's too easy, scaled for the higher lev member, it's too hard. But its content that everyone in the group wants to do. thats a start.
For pve though, you cant just take anyone who joins, and games already offer open group displays that you can just click join. But 8 mages get wiped without a tank and healer in pve. You need so many players, so many of certain classes, even gear and how you spec'd you char matters sometimes. To group now, you not only have to enjoy or not mind grouping, but you have to be a salesmen of sorts to get groups going yourself.
Maybe if they just gave you more inventory space for every person in your group? Or would solo only peops not like that either?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I think that ideally it wouldn't matter what your composition was, if you have a full party with the appropriate gear and level (with allowances for a sidekick system or the like perhaps), then you can do group content as well as another group. Where party composition should matter is tactics. If you are all ranged for instance, then you have to focus and abilities and movement to keep guys away from you (occasionally taking damage before knocking a guy down or pushing him back or the like). This ideal might not be fully achievable, but I think it is something to strive for.
That was my point. You can't even begin to fix grouping with the ways a lot of mmo gamers and developers look at classes. For grouping to work it must be easy. Having to find (Y class at X (+/-) 2 to 3 levels) *( 5 or 6) overly complicates the issue and makes grouping more of a pain in the ass then it is worth.
Scaling, which would have to be done in a instance, wouldn't be bad but there needs to be more group activities outside of instances that lock you in for a couple hours. I personally hated wow instances because I hated feeling like i was locked in until the end. I think boss mobs are another terrible idea that has been taken from single player rgps.
I play with my wife and friends, Usually by level 20 or so, we're all at different levels, we cant even group together. we group, then go solo alot. But unless we all agree not to play without each other (which we've tried)it's too hard to stay near each other to do the content at the times we need/want to do it. The sidekick thing in COH helped, but it still wasnt as fun being artificially made stronger..hard to explain why. I guess you feel less heroic. Not to mention, you have to do all that content agian later when you're at the correct level.
Well, if spawning is dynamic (and by that, I mean monsters are generally not out there wandering on their own, instead they spawn in respose to players being around and despawn when players leave), then you can have scaling outside of instance content. This could handle a lot of problems, but might be a bit tricky to implement (more open spaces might be needed to deal with crowding issues). Monsters would spawn in groups designed to challenge the group near them, and perhaps even tougher groups would spawn now and then for that extra bit of a challenge that you might not want every battle. You could even manually configure how tough you want things to be so the dynamic spawns are harder. It could even work to alleviate the need for a big side-kicking system if some weaker mobs get spawned with strong ones.
Potentially even mega-mobs might spawn that can't get taken out by anyone but require multiple people/groups in the are to team up to take it out. (Warhammer-like zone quests might work well here when such things pop up). Heavy hitters go after the big bad and weaker players have weaker mobs to handle (who might tend to go after people of the appropriate level). Zones could have a much broader level range than you currently see with this point, though there are extremes where this wouldn't work without a side-kicking system (enemy area attacks and such) or abilities that stronger characters can use to automatically protect their weaker friend.
The Combos in EQ2 didn't work very well. As mentioned, it was hard to coordinate them, so players didn't use them.
It worked like this. Someone had to start off a combo, and each class had a combo. So let's say the Tank starts off the combo. Then a symbol flashes for each class, in a certain order.
So maybe a healer symbol would flash. The Healer now has to click on a specific ability, BEFORE anyone else does something else, like attack the mob, buff, etc.
If the Healer clicked his specific ability, then the Nuke symbol would flash, and now the Nuke has to click on a specific ability BEFORE anyone else does something. If someone else attacks the mob before the Nuke does his thing, the chain is broken, you have to start again.
But if the whole chain went off, then you get a big bang, with a cool effect that does a lot of damage.
But you could wipe a party easy trying to get it right.
Sounds painful. That sort of thing and lag is why I believe a better interface solves the problem. Someone basically says "let's do THIS group move" then that move pops up with a number of open slots. People select which slot they want (which ones they can choose is based on their abilities of course), and when they are all filled the move is executed. That makes them much easier to execute, but the key thing would be to have a lot of choices as to what to do, so that picking the right one would make a big difference.
Sounds painful. That sort of thing and lag is why I believe a better interface solves the problem. Someone basically says "let's do THIS group move" then that move pops up with a number of open slots. People select which slot they want (which ones they can choose is based on their abilities of course), and when they are all filled the move is executed. That makes them much easier to execute, but the key thing would be to have a lot of choices as to what to do, so that picking the right one would make a big difference.
Lotro does this, made it easier to pull off with a better interface, then nerfed it. then nerfed it more. They're still useful for heals and power(mana). the complex ones are great, but unless youre in a group that gets off on doing them, theyre kinda worthless cause you only pull them off when you dont really need them. Any sort of damage chain is worthless now. DOT people say are good, but theyre worthless now too. So making it easier, means making them less powerful too. restoring your depleted bars are their only real use.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Sounds painful. That sort of thing and lag is why I believe a better interface solves the problem. Someone basically says "let's do THIS group move" then that move pops up with a number of open slots. People select which slot they want (which ones they can choose is based on their abilities of course), and when they are all filled the move is executed. That makes them much easier to execute, but the key thing would be to have a lot of choices as to what to do, so that picking the right one would make a big difference.
Lotro does this, made it easier to pull off with a better interface, then nerfed it. then nerfed it more. They're still useful for heals and power(mana). the complex ones are great, but unless youre in a group that gets off on doing them, theyre kinda worthless cause you only pull them off when you dont really need them. Any sort of damage chain is worthless now. DOT people say are good, but theyre worthless now too. So making it easier, means making them less powerful too. restoring your depleted bars are their only real use.
That sounds ridiculous. Why did they keep nerfing them? Was it too unbalanced for some groups? I know LOTRO you needed a Burgler to start most of them (so I understood).
That was my point. You can't even begin to fix grouping with the ways a lot of mmo gamers and developers look at classes. For grouping to work it must be easy. Having to find (Y class at X (+/-) 2 to 3 levels) *( 5 or 6) overly complicates the issue and makes grouping more of a pain in the ass then it is worth.
Scaling, which would have to be done in a instance, wouldn't be bad but there needs to be more group activities outside of instances that lock you in for a couple hours. I personally hated wow instances because I hated feeling like i was locked in until the end. I think boss mobs are another terrible idea that has been taken from single player rgps.
I play with my wife and friends, Usually by level 20 or so, we're all at different levels, we cant even group together. we group, then go solo alot. But unless we all agree not to play without each other (which we've tried)it's too hard to stay near each other to do the content at the times we need/want to do it. The sidekick thing in COH helped, but it still wasnt as fun being artificially made stronger..hard to explain why. I guess you feel less heroic. Not to mention, you have to do all that content agian later when you're at the correct level.
Well, if spawning is dynamic (and by that, I mean monsters are generally not out there wandering on their own, instead they spawn in respose to players being around and despawn when players leave), then you can have scaling outside of instance content. This could handle a lot of problems, but might be a bit tricky to implement (more open spaces might be needed to deal with crowding issues). Monsters would spawn in groups designed to challenge the group near them, and perhaps even tougher groups would spawn now and then for that extra bit of a challenge that you might not want every battle. You could even manually configure how tough you want things to be so the dynamic spawns are harder. It could even work to alleviate the need for a big side-kicking system if some weaker mobs get spawned with strong ones.
Potentially even mega-mobs might spawn that can't get taken out by anyone but require multiple people/groups in the are to team up to take it out. (Warhammer-like zone quests might work well here when such things pop up). Heavy hitters go after the big bad and weaker players have weaker mobs to handle (who might tend to go after people of the appropriate level). Zones could have a much broader level range than you currently see with this point, though there are extremes where this wouldn't work without a side-kicking system (enemy area attacks and such) or abilities that stronger characters can use to automatically protect their weaker friend.
All that sounds fine, but we just want to play these games together. It's all these artificial restrictions,walls, rules,ect that are preventing that. Which is against the rules in our book. You dont keep friends from playing together. These restrictions are for the developerrs. And to make their content funner. And to solve problems they create. And to be able to extract data easier. Not for us really. Adding more would just pile on. I say remove them and start over. It's the rules of the game keeping us apart. Rules imposed for developer or players? Are we even playing to have fun, or to see if we can escape from the box we're placed in? Whenever we do...we get a new rule.
Ya, im being dramatic, but its getting rediculous.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.