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Mature MMORPGs
melmoth1
Member Posts: 762
Just some reflections and worries about previous and especially future games that use the vague buzzword Mature to sell their games. For me there is a serious mismatch between what I want this buzzword to mean and what it usually means in practice.
MATURE
I understand when something is rated R or 18 or has some Parent Advisory or Explicit Content label written on it. This usually means there will be swearing, graphic violence, gore or strong sexual references or content. Such labels tell me very little about how grown up or 'mature' the actual content will be.
Now I feel that some games market the word Mature when what they really mean is Explicit Content. However, 'mature' according to the Oxford dictionary, and my understanding of it, means - in its cultural rather than biological sense - 'an advanced stage of mental and emotional development'. So, for example, I would consider say the comic book Punisher Max deserving of both an Explicit Content label and a sales tag that recommended itself to a 'mature' audience because Punisher Max - those who have read the series will understand - is relatively mature against the more juvenile standards of most comic books and graphic novels. 'Watchmen' or Grant Morrison's 'Doom Patrol' would be other more easily defensible examples of what I expect from a Mature sales tag.
What about games? Is Age of Conan 'Mature'? Big breasts and sexual references, and lots of blood for sure. But never mature. How about Dragon Age by Bioware? Again, cheesy sexual encounters, references to rape within a juvenile male revenge fantasy context and violence and blood. Nothing I saw in Dragon Age was Mature as I understand it. In fact, both those games - enjoyable as they may be - are decidedly juvenile in their mindest and content.
Ah, but Dragon Age has narrative complexity with choices that affect other characters and the game world so that, surely, IS relatively mature, right? I call BS on that. The reams and reams of derivative B-movie dialogue with bad boy choices and good boy choices and in-between choices are hardly complex choices and offer only marginally more narrative complexity than those old Steve Jackson fighting fantasy books. For me, this does not bode well for the new Star Wars mmorpg.
Examples of single player games that are Mature? I would say the Civilisation games and - in terms of narrative and storytelling - the Silent Hill games 1 and 2. You can probably think of more. MMORPGs? EVE online perhaps? I can think of no others.
So I worry that Mature may be losing its meaning. When I see the adjective mature banded about these days I tend to think, 'Oh dear, a euphemism for tits, popcorn violence and nerd-rage revenge fantasies'.
I don't see any Mature mmorpgs on the horizon. Please enlighten me if I am wrong because I want to be wrong here, I really do.
Regards
Melmoth
Edit.spelling
Comments
Good post man. Now that I think about it you're right haha. The last time I played a true mature game was.. Mahjong
One thing is for certain, you won't see it in Australia.
I have to concur with your post. Personally, I play a game so long as it's "fun"... regardless of the maturity level it's supposed to be aimed at. But you are right. More often than not it's used as a marketing tool. DOA:XBV and Fable for examples.
MMORPG-wise? Maybe someone will do something like Shadowbane+Darkfall and make it one of the bloodiest, graphic, kind of games of all time... but no mainstream publisher would put its ass on the line for it, and with economic times no one will risk the gamble.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
MMORPG on the horizon... perhaps The Secret World? Kinda far on the horizon, though, but still, only one I can think of that could be rather mature.
Yeh secret world, earthrise and citadel of sorcerry are really the only games i can think of and their not even released.
EVE and Fallen Earth are really the only 2 MMO games that fit your description.
The problem is that companies seem to like to overlook the fact that the average gamer is a 28 - 35yr old male, and that figure has been around for at least since the PS1 and N64 were kings. They try to make games strictly to cross the boundaries and often seem to label the games with the M and throw in a few boobs or curse words to try and market it to the younger crowds instead of what they should be.
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Yea, I agree. Chances are you're attracting 40+ year-old perverts and hyper violent pre-adolescents by adding boobs and gore to games. But what I'm wondering is: Is a mature game even possible? Think about it, there's a difference between a mature community and a mature game.
This statement is false.
That's the point OP is making.
First let me say that when the devs say Mature at least in terms of the marketing ploy I do believe they are referring to the ESRB rating of M for mature which simply means "you" the player should be "mature" i.e. of an adult mind set in order to play this game. To sum that up its no different than saying rated R, the next step above that is AO adults only which is avoided since if that rating is assumed then few stores will sale it in fact it wasn't long ago that most stores would not sale rated M or "Mature" games.
Now to your point wanting a "mature" game as in IP is of a mature tone all I can do is say "?" its a game the level of maturity really depends on your state of mind and interpretation of the content if all you see in AoC is large breast then your interpretation will not allow you to consume the IP as a "mature" world but rather as a "perverse" world nothing wrong that we live in a mature world for the most part any way so most look for an escape from that and game is not the only one virtually every book, move, song and play ever done has perverted some aspect of reality to make it more appealing, entertaining, etc. said perversion is imply to provide distraction from reality (usually any way) only in porn by the more traditional since being a media which appeals to the baser desires do we see media that does not. Nothing against porn either its just as valid to appeal to the base as it is the higher mind.
My point is the game is only as mature as the consumer perceive it to be, using AoC as an example (for note the original IP this title was based on was designed to be perverse) if you chose to look beyond the low level stimuli (thous big tits) and use your "imagination" you can find a deep rich world to explore then again if you chose to focus on the low level stimuli (titties) then you most likely be imagining sum thing quite different that a deep rich world (well it might be deep)
Dragon Age same thing, depending on what you focus on and what your mined chooses to trace out for you; you may or may not find the story deep and mature or corny and horny. Me personally I try to consume the story as wholly as possible forgiving imperfections and rough aspects (sluggish animation, some what corny lines) by filling in the blanks with my own imagination novel idea but generally the consumption of fiction calls for the use of your imagination, the story is nothing more than what you chose to get out of it. The skill of the developer is in giving me as much stimuli as needed to see enough of there vision to immerse my self in it and to suspend my disbelief, obviously if chose to resist I do know its fake I do see the imperfections I do see what you are talking about but if I chose to stop looking for the negative and enjoy my $60 investment as it was intended.
I can find many a "mature" story and many a perverse story in fact within the same game over more than one play through I will find both; might play Dragon Age once as an epic noble story of hard chose and gray virtues (the point of the story I think) and then again I might throw in the Natural Bodies MOD (allows fully nude models both genders all races) and have every one run around in pink boots and that's it (there are Mods for that) both may be amusing and in the end that's all that matters. If your looking for a game or well any other form of media to make you consume the story in a given way then I do believe you are sol, if your seeing nothing but corny love cuts and large tits perhaps you need a bottle of jerkins and some alone time (meant to be sarcastic not a kick at you personally)
I'd love to see a mature game, in the sense of intended for a rational, intelligent adult audience. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, most people when they talk about "mature" or "adult" are really talking about games that appeal to an oversexed teenage mindset. I want to play a game with people who can actually communicate in written English, are not out telling dirty jokes, don't want to dress up their characters in chain-mail bikinis, etc. In other words, people who can be adults and just play the game.
No, it'll never happen, the MMO market is made almost exclusively for the immature crowd.
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Fallen Earth aims at a pretty mature audience and seems to be successful at that. Most younger players are quickly put off by the graphics and the gameplay in general.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
You are 100% correct in my opinion, however until the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) 'matures' and realizes this, nothing will change. Their oversimplified rating system boils down to Mature = Boobs and/or blood usually.
And because the ESRB says its so, publishers have no choice but to accept the rating they are given.
edit: And you can pretty much thank all the over protective mothers in the U.S. for that.
I noticed that as well. I've found the players and the overall in-game chat much more mature than a lot of other MMOs.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Uhm, it still beats no choices whatsoever. But blood and boobs make nothing mature, that is true.
I dunno if Civ is actually so mature, yes you build an empire kids do build imaginary empires all the time. Gaming just isn't that mature, mature stuff is usually the boring stuff we do every day like go to work and pay taxes. Spending time in an imaginary world sure isn't. Focusing on your own life and what is around you is being mature.
But I don't see why you always should be so dang mature, people with their imagination intact are a lot more fun to be around and have less problems with stress than more "mature" people.
And here is a pointless wiki quote just because i can: Maturity is a psychological term used to indicate that a person responds to the circumstances or environment in an appropriate and adaptive manner. This response is generally learned rather than instinctual, and is not determined by one's age. Maturity also encompasses being aware of the correct time and place to behave and knowing when to act with appropriate emotion for the situation.
Psychologist B.W. Roberts explains that in an explicit model of personality, one's personality must be viewed from both the perspective of the actor and the perspective of the observer. Therefore, one's maturity is not measured solely on introspection, but by how others view one's maturity as well, in a feedback loop. By this definition, how an individual feels about himself is no more legitimate than how others feel about him, and so it is important that this individual gains a certain level of maturity as he grows older to earn the respect of others.
However, maturity need not reflect one's actions in a social situation among well-known peers, as in these situations there is no need to establish a sense of maturity as once maturity is established, it by no means has to be a norm. Furthermore, one need not establish maturity on how others view their personality, because a casual observer cannot totally judge someone he or she does not know on a personal level.
Maturity is something of personal character, or how one acts in stressful or difficult situations, because then a person's true ability to react to a situation can be seen. Fake social interactions are often misjudged as many people rely on outward appearance to mask inner strengths/weaknesses so as to present a simpler version of oneself to the world.
Additional ways to judge if a person is mature include rational thinking and logical explanation in solving a problem, and the art of reasoning while debating.
Great post! Mature games are few and far between. Even fewer when it comes to MMOG's. Fallen Earth and Eve may be the most mature ones yet, but there is a lot of room for improvement in those games as well.
It seems like all the devs are going for the primary demographic which does require an immature game. Its ironic that the more mature, niche games are generally successful where the immature ones have a high failure rate, but when they are a hit, they hit big (WoW).
One thing to take into account is how, currently, games are vilified as the source of all evil, violence, sex, etc.
If you take the movie Watchmen, it's a lot more graphic than many games. But censure is currently fixed on games. A few years back it was manga-focused. A few decades before that it was reading. A few centuries ago it was theatre (accused of fostering prostitution...).
So, labelling a game as mature is one way to avoid censure: "we are clearly saying this is for adult, don't come running to us about how it perverts children, as children shouldn't even know it exists, if parents actually did their job instead of plonking the kid in front of a screen to get some quiet".
Politics are mature. Tits aren't.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
how funny would it be if an mmo implemented a rape feature
They have that game already.
Its web based and I guarantee you can't get any more mature than this.
http://seniors-site.com/index/
World of Warcrafts fits what you want. Many of the people I ran into on my server, can be ArsHoles and grumpy just like old adults normally be. Cant get more Mature then that.
ALso the Graphic may not be the best, but did that stop people from playing Mortal Combat(which started the ESRB rating), or Warcraft 1-3, or Starcraft, or Warhammer 40k/RTS?
Also Fantasy weapons appel to me because of the size of gear.
Good post. I certainly agree when it comes to single-player games - they say "Mature" when they mean "Explicit Content". It's my belief that you should be "mature" before you are allowed to experience this content anyways, which is why they use it as a label. No one likes a young kid giggling because he saw nipples when he was playing a "Mature" game his irresponsible parents bought for him. As for MMORPGs, however, I think the community determines whether an MMO is mature or not. That's a no-brainer, right? The way you describe it, you want the actual gameplay and mechanics of the MMO to be "mature"; that is, you want them to make you think, to appear complex and well thought-out, and to be relatively realistic. This is all well and good, but I would call a game like LotRO mature, and it's very similar to WoW, which has none of the aforementioned qualities. Why? The community.
So, if we're listing mature MMOs based on the community and the gameplay mechanics, I say EVE, LotRO, and perhaps Fallen Earth, though I haven't played that yet (but it has been mentioned). Typically, sandbox games draw more "mature" audiences, but one only has to look at Darkfall (a quasi-sandbox) to see that there are indeed exceptions.
Well, it's not just the community, though that's important.
The decision to have an open chat or on the contrary a protected chat determines if it's 13+ or 13- . Just look as all the "kid" MMOs like Club Penguin, they are designed for kids, with simpler interfaces, almost no combat, lots of privacy-securing features, etc.
The biggest target audience in videogames is the one who buys into the cheap dialogue, sexual artwork references, and simplistic gameplay. It has always been like that. TV is very similar.
Labeling something mature is subjective and a waste of time. It is about personal preference, or mood. For example, sometimes I am in the mood to watch a dumb action movie. I know it has horrible dialogue, but I may have just worked 14 hours and do not want my head to process more than just explosions. Perhaps I have the day off and have some free time to kill, so I decide to read a historical book or watch a documentary.
If I had to classify a game as being 'mature,' it would offer an overly complicated learning curve and challenge. I don't see gore/tits as being relevant.
Personally I think you discredited your entire post with comic book comparisons, which seem to circle the exact audience which you were pinpointing.
Just be happy you don't live in Australia. Their censors are bat-shit insane.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."