OMG the fanbois come out, lol....you know who you are.
This is a great list Jon. I agree with your assessment of Second Life. I've 'played' it as well, and I get it, but there really isn't enough structure to roleplay someone truly different. I thought I'd try to be a James Bond type character -- okay, got the suit, there are guns...well, nothing left to do, haha. I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but what I found out was so completely foreign that I was lost.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
I would like to point out that 90% of the Social MMO's are cybersex zones. They do so well because sex sells. In Second Life alone their own company reports that 85% of all Second Life business deal with the sex trade, the other remaining ones are logistical support for businesses to thrive. So in effect almost 100% of all Second Life businesses support the cybersex trade.
So while they dont have fighting, quests and combat...there is a lot of wrestling going on. :P
Cute line. But footnote this please? I've been active in SL for over four years now, and I doubt your numbers are accurate and I'm *SURE* they aren't from Linden Lab. Did a friend of a friend tell you this?
I make a decent (in both senses) income of about five figures in US$ a year from SL, and I know where a lot of Lindens move -- and non-sex merch and services are a much larger proportion of the economy than you posit.
The talk about SL and cybering reminds me of people who think that Amazon and Disney.com are the only things on the web. If you get a general population of *buyers*, then sex will be sold. I seem to remember someone singing, "The Internet is for porn." Virtual worlds are just a 3D web, in a way.
On the other hand, my partner and I have been commissioned to do a sculpture by the MacArthur Foundation to honor the opening of the International Justice Center in SL. My partner (aka Tuna Oddfellow) won a million linden dollars (~US$4000 if you translate it through PayPal) in a contest to determine the "Most Talented Avatar" in SL in 2007, and his avatar was on America's Got Talent twice that summer. I won a marketing competition in SL and got US$5000 for that. We've consulted or performed for CMP Publishing, Viximo, Hublot Luxury Watches, and a lot of other companies -- sometimes for four figures in US$ for an event.
I have friends who run educational programs in SL from Harvard University and other major institutions. There are people producing regular machinima video productions in business education and entertainment on a weekly basis. A friend of mine won a RL international human rights award for a machinima he did reporting on a "virtual Guantanamo" project in SL. My partner and my own Second Life wedding was reported in Business Week (including our wedding machinima on their web site!)
Trust me, that was the most surreal thing that's ever happened to me in a pretty surreal life...:)
And today, we've got our own RL company patenting perceptual and 3D production tech we discovered in SL (see http://oddfellowstudios.com)
Part of the game in SL is much the same as RL, only with distance and personal preconceptions erased. If you really want someone to tell you to kill ten rats, it ain't for you. If you want to augment your reality online (really, SL is sort of the opposite of an augmented reality game in a way), then this is a fascinating and diverse community, where you actions can stay fairly private, or totally transform your real life.
The article author is completely correct about one thing -- SL is the most pure roleplaying game on the web. Even if you are TRYING to "play yourself" the limitations of avatar communication (particularly since most of us don't use voice) mean that at best you play an abstraction of yourself.
As for it "not being a game," well, I sort of think of life as a game. Maybe because I'm a gamer? But as I told Tuna in 2007 when he won a million lindens from NBC -- "You know what this means, right? It means you just won Second Life..."
Great concept for an article. List should have included Darkfall Online for the following reasons that make it extremely different from the wow, or typical mmo mold. 1) Open PvP, non-faction based although some advantages for opting for the faction only play style. 2) Full Loot PvP, all inventory and items on paper-doll are dropped upon death. 3) First Person View, No Radar, No seeing behind or to the side unless you turn to look. 4) Player owned Cities and Hamlets that are built and can be sieged and taken, or lost. 5 ) Full Naval Ships and Combat 6) Non Class Based. One can be Melee, Archer, Mage or combo based upon play style. 7) Skills are gained by use, not be attaining levels. Non level based game. Really, list goes on and on. This is an open sandbox game the likes of which is only remotely similar to EvE, Shadowbane, or UO; certainly out of the mold, daring, and successful as well. -CC
I would like to point out that 90% of the Social MMO's are cybersex zones. They do so well because sex sells. In Second Life alone their own company reports that 85% of all Second Life business deal with the sex trade, the other remaining ones are logistical support for businesses to thrive. So in effect almost 100% of all Second Life businesses support the cybersex trade.
So while they dont have fighting, quests and combat...there is a lot of wrestling going on. :P
Cute line. But footnote this please? I've been active in SL for over four years now, and I doubt your numbers are accurate and I'm *SURE* they aren't from Linden Lab. Did a friend of a friend tell you this?
I make a decent (in both senses) income of about five figures in US$ a year from SL, and I know where a lot of Lindens move -- and non-sex merch and services are a much larger proportion of the economy than you posit.
The talk about SL and cybering reminds me of people who think that Amazon and Disney.com are the only things on the web. If you get a general population of *buyers*, then sex will be sold. I seem to remember someone singing, "The Internet is for porn." Virtual worlds are just a 3D web, in a way.
On the other hand, my partner and I have been commissioned to do a sculpture by the MacArthur Foundation to honor the opening of the International Justice Center in SL. My partner (aka Tuna Oddfellow) won a million linden dollars (~US$4000 if you translate it through PayPal) in a contest to determine the "Most Talented Avatar" in SL in 2007, and his avatar was on America's Got Talent twice that summer. I won a marketing competition in SL and got US$5000 for that. We've consulted or performed for CMP Publishing, Viximo, Hublot Luxury Watches, and a lot of other companies -- sometimes for four figures in US$ for an event.
I have friends who run educational programs in SL from Harvard University and other major institutions. There are people producing regular machinima video productions in business education and entertainment on a weekly basis. A friend of mine won a RL international human rights award for a machinima he did reporting on a "virtual Guantanamo" project in SL. My partner and my own Second Life wedding was reported in Business Week (including our wedding machinima on their web site!)
Trust me, that was the most surreal thing that's ever happened to me in a pretty surreal life...:)
And today, we've got our own RL company patenting perceptual and 3D production tech we discovered in SL (see http://oddfellowstudios.com)
Part of the game in SL is much the same as RL, only with distance and personal preconceptions erased. If you really want someone to tell you to kill ten rats, it ain't for you. If you want to augment your reality online (really, SL is sort of the opposite of an augmented reality game in a way), then this is a fascinating and diverse community, where you actions can stay fairly private, or totally transform your real life.
The article author is completely correct about one thing -- SL is the most pure roleplaying game on the web. Even if you are TRYING to "play yourself" the limitations of avatar communication (particularly since most of us don't use voice) mean that at best you play an abstraction of yourself.
As for it "not being a game," well, I sort of think of life as a game. Maybe because I'm a gamer? But as I told Tuna in 2007 when he won a million lindens from NBC -- "You know what this means, right? It means you just won Second Life..."
Our achievements are just all user created.
Yrs,
Shava Nerad
CEO
Oddfellow Studios, Inc.
Thanks for this insight into SL. I had read similar accounts when I joined a few years ago. It gets me excited about the IDEA behind Second Life, but I can't help but feel lost when I get in the game. The tutorial wasn't much help, and I've read a fair bit of things online. Maybe I'm just too conditioned by the current slew of MMOs out there, lol. That is entirely possible.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Great concept for an article. List should have included Darkfall Online for the following reasons that make it extremely different from the wow, or typical mmo mold. 1) Open PvP, non-faction based although some advantages for opting for the faction only play style. 2) Full Loot PvP, all inventory and items on paper-doll are dropped upon death. 3) First Person View, No Radar, No seeing behind or to the side unless you turn to look. 4) Player owned Cities and Hamlets that are built and can be sieged and taken, or lost. 5 ) Full Naval Ships and Combat 6) Non Class Based. One can be Melee, Archer, Mage or combo based upon play style. 7) Skills are gained by use, not be attaining levels. Non level based game. Really, list goes on and on. This is an open sandbox game the likes of which is only remotely similar to EvE, Shadowbane, or UO; certainly out of the mold, daring, and successful as well. -CC
/agreed
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
One individual does not represent "You Darkfall Fans", relax.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
One individual does not represent "You Darkfall Fans", relax.
Two, actually, and it's symptomatic of the larger DFO fanbase -- and no, I don't need to relax. But I know you are a DFO fan as well, so I understand your defensiveness.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
the list is for MMOs that really set apart from the "basic" MMO....DFO got no real innovative approch to the genre. its a kill whatever in fantasy settings game...and loads of MMOs got PvP.
dont know if DFO is a good or bad game, but find it wierd anyone would want it on this list of MMOs that really sets apart from the general way of building an MMO
I'm only responding again because you "find it wierd" DFO would be suggested.
Name another MMO now on the market where players create most of the content such as politics due to the following:
- Player built Cities and Hamlets that can be captured or lost with functionality of player created walls, cannons, skill trainers, boat yards, laser towers, and the list goes on.
-Player created Ships with sea warefare and fortresses at sea that can be captured and/or challenged for control.
-Open PvP where one can attack any one, not just the opposite faction.
-Death Penalty in PvP and PvE where all you have is left on corpse.
-Skill based, not level based.
-No class selection, as one can be any class or combo as player desires.
Is it just me or could you just describe DFO as Fantasy EVE?
Seriously though I find it funny that everything that the Darkfall guys say makes them different were all done by EVE already.
Current Game: Asssasins Creed 2(PS3, Gamer Tag: Happy_Hubby) Current MMO: World of Warcraft and World of Tanks Former Subscribed MMO: Star Trek Online, Aion, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve Online, DAoC, City of Heroes, Shattered Galaxy, 10six. Tried: Too many to list
Great concept for an article. List should have included Darkfall Online for the following reasons that make it extremely different from the wow, or typical mmo mold. 1) Open PvP, non-faction based although some advantages for opting for the faction only play style. other mmo's have non faction based PvP such as EvE.
2) Full Loot PvP, all inventory and items on paper-doll are dropped upon death. Done elsewhere too and the mmo i play goes even further than full loot.
3) First Person View, No Radar, No seeing behind or to the side unless you turn to look. Neocron Planetside Tabula Risa and any other FPS MMO'S does this as well
4) Player owned Cities and Hamlets that are built and can be sieged and taken, or lost. Other games have sieges where locations can be lost and eve not only does this but has an extensive player built set of station structures that can easilly be called a city such as P.O.S'S and Outposts.
5 ) Full Naval Ships and Combat many pirate MMO's out there with Naval fleet battles. and as far as i know the only naval ship in DFO are rafts
6) Non Class Based. One can be Melee, Archer, Mage or combo based upon play style. WoW nonclassed base is it? sounds just like EvE and certain other MMO's out there, also in eve you can be many classes with the same Avatar.
7) Skills are gained by use, not be attaining levels. Non level based game. Not sure if any other MMO has use based skills but EvE used to till [1 month later] it was shown just how awfull such a system is with macros [Example a player moves from one location to another to increase his moving skills sets up a macro to do this then goes to bed]. Also DFO isant completly non level based as you have skill levels.
Really, list goes on and on. This is an open sandbox game the likes of which is only remotely similar to EvE, Shadowbane, or UO; certainly out of the mold, daring, and successful a bit early to call it successfull? as well. -CC
/agreed
Why?
To start with DF online does not belong on this list as it is a list of games who's whole bases is NOT on the standard established MMO formula [ as in XP andor gear based gameplay with npc mobs and end game content]. Look at the games listed and you will see why they are there [seed for example had no combat at all npc or otherwise and was focussed largely on the social side of things]. So now you know why Darkfall is not mentioned [this also goes for EvE too]
I am not trying to 'bash you' or 'troll' you or DFO as i see it as EvE was when it was new, but you must learn that on a old forum like this you will get posters who see a nieve post like this and laugh a lot before commenting.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
There is one thing all these examples lacked, serious money. You can’t compare a game that tries to do something different with a triple A big spender as they never try anything radical.
No matter how much money you throw at a game players will always see it lacking in some way unless the designers are prepared to remix the old and look for something new.
Why? To start with DF online does not belong on this list as it is a list of games who's whole bases is NOT on the standard established MMO formula [ as in XP andor gear based gameplay with npc mobs and end game content]. Look at the games listed and you will see why they are there [seed for example had no combat at all npc or otherwise and was focussed largely on the social side of things]. So now you know why Darkfall is not mentioned [this also goes for EvE too]
I am not trying to 'bash you' or 'troll' you or DFO as i see it as EvE was when it was new, but you must learn that on a old forum like this you will get posters who see a nieve post like this and laugh a lot before commenting.
Eve has alot more social aspect than almost all other MMORPGs. If you dont know that then you havent taken part in 0.0 operations.
Just because it has combat should not disqualify it as doing things differently because it does ALOT of other things differently. Like completely skill based, raise skills when not online (without use of illegal macroing), true economy with very viable trade professions, empire building etc.
Eve is the most innovate MMORPG to date, that has survived the test of time. Does not make it perfect, far from, but it should be number 1 on that list.
Some people are forgetting that the article was about the 5 mmo's that daviate the most from the WoW clones, not the most succesful ones that did it slightly differently. DF/GW are both great games, but they're no match to CitiesXL when it comes down to differences between WoW.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
Originally posted by erandur Some people are forgetting that the article was about the 5 mmo's that daviate the most from the WoW clones, not the most succesful ones that did it slightly differently. DF/GW are both great games, but they're no match to CitiesXL when it comes down to differences between WoW.
I like Darkfall but it definitely should no be put on that list. EVE, on other hand, makes things totally different anf it's most 'different' game out here imho. The best in EVE mechanics is that it works. It's gaining subscribers years after release. Any other game is rising subscriptions 5 years after launch? Doubt it. Totally different AND successful.
Some people are forgetting that the article was about the 5 mmo's that daviate the most from the WoW clones, not the most succesful ones that did it slightly differently. DF/GW are both great games, but they're no match to CitiesXL when it comes down to differences between WoW.
And absolutely no game is a match for CitiesXL when it comes to corporate greed!
Some people are forgetting that the article was about the 5 mmo's that daviate the most from the WoW clones, not the most succesful ones that did it slightly differently. DF/GW are both great games, but they're no match to CitiesXL when it comes down to differences between WoW.
I like Darkfall but it definitely should no be put on that list. EVE, on other hand, makes things totally different anf it's most 'different' game out here imho. The best in EVE mechanics is that it works. It's gaining subscribers years after release. Any other game is rising subscriptions 5 years after launch? Doubt it. Totally different AND successful.
I've quit following MMO's, but WoW should do about the same atm.
BTW Xondar, what do you mean with corporate greed? I haven't played the game since early beta testing, and they always seemed good, honest people to me. What happened?
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
seriously, its just unprofessional. wow in china as far as i know is dead, blizzard doesn't release ANY numbers anymore because they know this. at most wow is 6million, but i personally dont think it is any more then 5mil
seriously, its just unprofessional. wow in china as far as i know is dead, blizzard doesn't release ANY numbers anymore because they know this. at most wow is 6million, but i personally dont think it is any more then 5mil
get with the times, PLEASE
Perhaps you should do some research first and then make bold statements imho.
WoW is back in commercial operation in China since late september 2009 after aprovel by the MoC. They are still trying to get WOTLK approved by MoC. And, the GAPP did not agree with the commercial relaunch, but so far the GAPP has not been able to stop operations.
There is a power struggle between MoC and GAPP ( 2 Chinese governemental organisations ) and WoW is inbetween, still it is up and running. So unless you have a link with new information, please get with the time.
On top of that Blizzard income from WoW is increasing, probably in part due to the much larger royalties they are getting from the new Chinese provider Netease compared to the old provider The9. And if income is increasing, then subs can't be dropping as dramatically as you try to claim.
It is clear that WoW subs are slowly stagnating, but saying that they dropped more than 6 million between now and June is wild speculation.
If you half the numbers of China and keep stagnating numbers worldwide in mind, you still come up with at least 9 million subs.
So back on track now
I think Ryzom and EVE definatly have a host of unique features, still I think the list was nice.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
There are way more games, who try to actually do it different. oh yes, many MMO's are different... they differ from kill 10 boars, kill 10 murlocs, kill 10 rats, kill 10 mutated rats, kill 10 waagh rats. Groundbreaking. This list is a really bad one. What the hell do Second Life, Puzzle Pirates and Seed in it? I am not even sure that CitiesXL belongs to this list. This list doesn't list MMOs, but browser games and sozial platforms. If you want to list something, which is different in the kind of Second Life, but you want to stay by "Games", then rather list Project Entropia. MMO's don't necessarily indicate games... an MMO isn't even a genre, it only requires a virtual world to be persistantly online and with thousands of people. What about Darkfall? What about Mortal Online (in beta)? What about Roma Victor? What about any other MMO still in development, like Renaissance? Well first of all he couldn't list them all but five evident examples, why would he have to list them all, the objective is for readers to think, and 5 original mmos do that task. Second of all i believe DFO and MO, albeit inviting some rethinking in times of utter cloning and accessible similar experiences, they simply reused UO concept. That list was made of titles that completely change the way a person thinks of a virtual world. This article was a waste of time, to be honest. Next time please do more research and think about it twice.
I thought the list was quite good, and disagree completely with people who think DFO, GW's or even my favorite game belong on the list, because they are all just variants of a common game design created a long time ago.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
OMG the fanbois come out, lol....you know who you are.
This is a great list Jon. I agree with your assessment of Second Life. I've 'played' it as well, and I get it, but there really isn't enough structure to roleplay someone truly different. I thought I'd try to be a James Bond type character -- okay, got the suit, there are guns...well, nothing left to do, haha. I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but what I found out was so completely foreign that I was lost.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Cute line. But footnote this please? I've been active in SL for over four years now, and I doubt your numbers are accurate and I'm *SURE* they aren't from Linden Lab. Did a friend of a friend tell you this?
A panel at SXSW/Interactive (http://playnoevil.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/326-Economics-of-Virtual-Sex-Metrics-from-Linden-Labs-Second-Life-MMO.html) put the number at 30% in 2006, and I doubt that's changed much.
I make a decent (in both senses) income of about five figures in US$ a year from SL, and I know where a lot of Lindens move -- and non-sex merch and services are a much larger proportion of the economy than you posit.
The talk about SL and cybering reminds me of people who think that Amazon and Disney.com are the only things on the web. If you get a general population of *buyers*, then sex will be sold. I seem to remember someone singing, "The Internet is for porn."
Virtual worlds are just a 3D web, in a way.
On the other hand, my partner and I have been commissioned to do a sculpture by the MacArthur Foundation to honor the opening of the International Justice Center in SL. My partner (aka Tuna Oddfellow) won a million linden dollars (~US$4000 if you translate it through PayPal) in a contest to determine the "Most Talented Avatar" in SL in 2007, and his avatar was on America's Got Talent twice that summer. I won a marketing competition in SL and got US$5000 for that. We've consulted or performed for CMP Publishing, Viximo, Hublot Luxury Watches, and a lot of other companies -- sometimes for four figures in US$ for an event.
I have friends who run educational programs in SL from Harvard University and other major institutions. There are people producing regular machinima video productions in business education and entertainment on a weekly basis. A friend of mine won a RL international human rights award for a machinima he did reporting on a "virtual Guantanamo" project in SL. My partner and my own Second Life wedding was reported in Business Week (including our wedding machinima on their web site!)
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2008/tc20080214_131079.htm
Trust me, that was the most surreal thing that's ever happened to me in a pretty surreal life...:)
And today, we've got our own RL company patenting perceptual and 3D production tech we discovered in SL (see http://oddfellowstudios.com)
Part of the game in SL is much the same as RL, only with distance and personal preconceptions erased. If you really want someone to tell you to kill ten rats, it ain't for you. If you want to augment your reality online (really, SL is sort of the opposite of an augmented reality game in a way), then this is a fascinating and diverse community, where you actions can stay fairly private, or totally transform your real life.
The article author is completely correct about one thing -- SL is the most pure roleplaying game on the web. Even if you are TRYING to "play yourself" the limitations of avatar communication (particularly since most of us don't use voice) mean that at best you play an abstraction of yourself.
As for it "not being a game," well, I sort of think of life as a game. Maybe because I'm a gamer? But as I told Tuna in 2007 when he won a million lindens from NBC -- "You know what this means, right? It means you just won Second Life..."
Our achievements are just all user created.
Yrs,
Shava Nerad
CEO
Oddfellow Studios, Inc.
/agreed
Cute line. But footnote this please? I've been active in SL for over four years now, and I doubt your numbers are accurate and I'm *SURE* they aren't from Linden Lab. Did a friend of a friend tell you this?
A panel at SXSW/Interactive (http://playnoevil.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/326-Economics-of-Virtual-Sex-Metrics-from-Linden-Labs-Second-Life-MMO.html) put the number at 30% in 2006, and I doubt that's changed much.
I make a decent (in both senses) income of about five figures in US$ a year from SL, and I know where a lot of Lindens move -- and non-sex merch and services are a much larger proportion of the economy than you posit.
The talk about SL and cybering reminds me of people who think that Amazon and Disney.com are the only things on the web. If you get a general population of *buyers*, then sex will be sold. I seem to remember someone singing, "The Internet is for porn."
Virtual worlds are just a 3D web, in a way.
On the other hand, my partner and I have been commissioned to do a sculpture by the MacArthur Foundation to honor the opening of the International Justice Center in SL. My partner (aka Tuna Oddfellow) won a million linden dollars (~US$4000 if you translate it through PayPal) in a contest to determine the "Most Talented Avatar" in SL in 2007, and his avatar was on America's Got Talent twice that summer. I won a marketing competition in SL and got US$5000 for that. We've consulted or performed for CMP Publishing, Viximo, Hublot Luxury Watches, and a lot of other companies -- sometimes for four figures in US$ for an event.
I have friends who run educational programs in SL from Harvard University and other major institutions. There are people producing regular machinima video productions in business education and entertainment on a weekly basis. A friend of mine won a RL international human rights award for a machinima he did reporting on a "virtual Guantanamo" project in SL. My partner and my own Second Life wedding was reported in Business Week (including our wedding machinima on their web site!)
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2008/tc20080214_131079.htm
Trust me, that was the most surreal thing that's ever happened to me in a pretty surreal life...:)
And today, we've got our own RL company patenting perceptual and 3D production tech we discovered in SL (see http://oddfellowstudios.com)
Part of the game in SL is much the same as RL, only with distance and personal preconceptions erased. If you really want someone to tell you to kill ten rats, it ain't for you. If you want to augment your reality online (really, SL is sort of the opposite of an augmented reality game in a way), then this is a fascinating and diverse community, where you actions can stay fairly private, or totally transform your real life.
The article author is completely correct about one thing -- SL is the most pure roleplaying game on the web. Even if you are TRYING to "play yourself" the limitations of avatar communication (particularly since most of us don't use voice) mean that at best you play an abstraction of yourself.
As for it "not being a game," well, I sort of think of life as a game. Maybe because I'm a gamer? But as I told Tuna in 2007 when he won a million lindens from NBC -- "You know what this means, right? It means you just won Second Life..."
Our achievements are just all user created.
Yrs,
Shava Nerad
CEO
Oddfellow Studios, Inc.
Thanks for this insight into SL. I had read similar accounts when I joined a few years ago. It gets me excited about the IDEA behind Second Life, but I can't help but feel lost when I get in the game. The tutorial wasn't much help, and I've read a fair bit of things online. Maybe I'm just too conditioned by the current slew of MMOs out there, lol. That is entirely possible.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
/agreed
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
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Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
One individual does not represent "You Darkfall Fans", relax.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Seriously. You Darkfall Fans are really overplaying your hand. I respect DFO for what it's trying to do, but if you think it exemplifies the avant garde in gaming like the titles Jon Wood suggested, you REALLY need to play more MMOs.
One individual does not represent "You Darkfall Fans", relax.
Two, actually, and it's symptomatic of the larger DFO fanbase -- and no, I don't need to relax. But I know you are a DFO fan as well, so I understand your defensiveness.
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Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
I'm only responding again because you "find it wierd" DFO would be suggested.
Name another MMO now on the market where players create most of the content such as politics due to the following:
- Player built Cities and Hamlets that can be captured or lost with functionality of player created walls, cannons, skill trainers, boat yards, laser towers, and the list goes on.
-Player created Ships with sea warefare and fortresses at sea that can be captured and/or challenged for control.
-Open PvP where one can attack any one, not just the opposite faction.
-Death Penalty in PvP and PvE where all you have is left on corpse.
-Skill based, not level based.
-No class selection, as one can be any class or combo as player desires.
Look forward to hearing your reply.
-CC
EVE.
Nuff said.
Ironic...I just made a thread listing tons of underrated MMOs that do it differently the day before this was done. :O
Check out the MUD I'm making!
*Chuckles*
Is it just me or could you just describe DFO as Fantasy EVE?
Seriously though I find it funny that everything that the Darkfall guys say makes them different were all done by EVE already.
Current Game: Asssasins Creed 2(PS3, Gamer Tag: Happy_Hubby)
Current MMO: World of Warcraft and World of Tanks
Former Subscribed MMO: Star Trek Online, Aion, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve Online, DAoC, City of Heroes, Shattered Galaxy, 10six.
Tried: Too many to list
/agreed
Why?
To start with DF online does not belong on this list as it is a list of games who's whole bases is NOT on the standard established MMO formula [ as in XP andor gear based gameplay with npc mobs and end game content]. Look at the games listed and you will see why they are there [seed for example had no combat at all npc or otherwise and was focussed largely on the social side of things]. So now you know why Darkfall is not mentioned [this also goes for EvE too]
I am not trying to 'bash you' or 'troll' you or DFO as i see it as EvE was when it was new, but you must learn that on a old forum like this you will get posters who see a nieve post like this and laugh a lot before commenting.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
There is one thing all these examples lacked, serious money. You can’t compare a game that tries to do something different with a triple A big spender as they never try anything radical.
No matter how much money you throw at a game players will always see it lacking in some way unless the designers are prepared to remix the old and look for something new.
Why does all weird games that either noone plays or hasnt heard of end up in these kind of articles?
Eve, which is a proper MMORPG, is certainly one that does things differently. Why is it not listed?
Puzzle pirates, wtf?
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Eve has alot more social aspect than almost all other MMORPGs. If you dont know that then you havent taken part in 0.0 operations.
Just because it has combat should not disqualify it as doing things differently because it does ALOT of other things differently. Like completely skill based, raise skills when not online (without use of illegal macroing), true economy with very viable trade professions, empire building etc.
Eve is the most innovate MMORPG to date, that has survived the test of time. Does not make it perfect, far from, but it should be number 1 on that list.
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Great article! Very cool to see some out of the ordinary games get exposure.
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
Some people are forgetting that the article was about the 5 mmo's that daviate the most from the WoW clones, not the most succesful ones that did it slightly differently. DF/GW are both great games, but they're no match to CitiesXL when it comes down to differences between WoW.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
I like Darkfall but it definitely should no be put on that list. EVE, on other hand, makes things totally different anf it's most 'different' game out here imho. The best in EVE mechanics is that it works. It's gaining subscribers years after release. Any other game is rising subscriptions 5 years after launch? Doubt it. Totally different AND successful.
And absolutely no game is a match for CitiesXL when it comes to corporate greed!
I like Darkfall but it definitely should no be put on that list. EVE, on other hand, makes things totally different anf it's most 'different' game out here imho. The best in EVE mechanics is that it works. It's gaining subscribers years after release. Any other game is rising subscriptions 5 years after launch? Doubt it. Totally different AND successful.
I've quit following MMO's, but WoW should do about the same atm.
BTW Xondar, what do you mean with corporate greed? I haven't played the game since early beta testing, and they always seemed good, honest people to me. What happened?
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
WHY DO PEOPLE STILL SAY WOW HAS 11 MILLION?!
seriously, its just unprofessional. wow in china as far as i know is dead, blizzard doesn't release ANY numbers anymore because they know this. at most wow is 6million, but i personally dont think it is any more then 5mil
get with the times, PLEASE
Perhaps you should do some research first and then make bold statements imho.
WoW is back in commercial operation in China since late september 2009 after aprovel by the MoC. They are still trying to get WOTLK approved by MoC. And, the GAPP did not agree with the commercial relaunch, but so far the GAPP has not been able to stop operations.
http://www.jlmpacificepoch.com/newsstories?id=156852_0_5_0_M
There is a power struggle between MoC and GAPP ( 2 Chinese governemental organisations ) and WoW is inbetween, still it is up and running. So unless you have a link with new information, please get with the time.
On top of that Blizzard income from WoW is increasing, probably in part due to the much larger royalties they are getting from the new Chinese provider Netease compared to the old provider The9. And if income is increasing, then subs can't be dropping as dramatically as you try to claim.
Last number with 11,6 million subs was from June, not THAT long ago Blizzard guinness world record
It is clear that WoW subs are slowly stagnating, but saying that they dropped more than 6 million between now and June is wild speculation.
If you half the numbers of China and keep stagnating numbers worldwide in mind, you still come up with at least 9 million subs.
So back on track now
I think Ryzom and EVE definatly have a host of unique features, still I think the list was nice.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
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Different doesnt always = Better
Perhaps you were 'Blizzarded'?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I thought the list was quite good, and disagree completely with people who think DFO, GW's or even my favorite game belong on the list, because they are all just variants of a common game design created a long time ago.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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