Then what do PVP'ers think of Carebears who demand instancing because they feel too threatened if another Carebear is around to take a swing at the same giant rat they are trying to kill? Something to think about. Thoughts?
PvP in most modern MMOs has less death penalties or none at all compared to PvE, something to think about.
Carebear = A term nerds use against others to feel better about themselves.
Seriously.
The name calling and stereotypes have gotten really pathetic. It seems a lot of you are actually beginning to believe your own propaganda.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Those that prefer to pve but like pvp also just not tossed at them while they pve and those just straight up afraid to pvp (we see a lot of those in Eve).
Those carebears are the inferior people we give a hardtime.
Being afraid of people in a videogame? That's pathetic shit.
If that's not bad enough they have the balls to try to get my favorite games changed to suit their pussy asses.
Two different types of carebear players. Those that prefer to pve but like pvp also just not tossed at them while they pve and those just straight up afraid to pvp (we see a lot of those in Eve). Those carebears are the inferior people we give a hardtime. Being afraid of people in a videogame? That's pathetic shit. If that's not bad enough they have the balls to try to get my favorite games changed to suit their pussy asses.
EVE is a horrible example as anyone without a corp to reoutfit a loss means spending a lot of personal time/money to stomach getting popped. It took me forever to save up and buy a Domi, and even with the new missions I could do in it, it would take a long-ass time to get another one if I lost it. Fear of PvP in EVE is easily explainable, why people fear it in a game like AoC is questionable. All that costs you is time.
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Two different types of carebear players. Those that prefer to pve but like pvp also just not tossed at them while they pve and those just straight up afraid to pvp (we see a lot of those in Eve). Those carebears are the inferior people we give a hardtime. Being afraid of people in a videogame? That's pathetic shit. If that's not bad enough they have the balls to try to get my favorite games changed to suit their pussy asses.
EVE is a horrible example as anyone without a corp to reoutfit a loss means spending a lot of personal time/money to stomach getting popped. It took me forever to save up and buy a Domi, and even with the new missions I could do in it, it would take a long-ass time to get another one if I lost it. Fear of PvP in EVE is easily explainable, why people fear it in a game like AoC is questionable. All that costs you is time.
Eve has ton's of guides to help with making isk. Also your domi was for mission running? you could easily have flown a cruiser or something and messed with pvp.
No need to lose something you can't afford to replace (On of eve survival rules btw).
You think My alt takes his 1+ billion isk Navy Domi out of empire? why? That would be dumb, doesnt mean im afraid. Some people wont even leave empire in a 20k isk frig lol.
Then they have the nerve to talk shit to the devs on forums.
What I'm trying to say is normal pvpers only give carebears shit that actually deserve it.
Thats a good point, BCs were easily bought at my means, but we all know you can't just road 0 sec to fight other loners efficiently. You gotta join a corp to really survive it, and I wasn't really prepared to do that during my run with it. I've lost destroyers and such to 1v1 PvP against a bigger ship, figured I really didn't want to lose anything bigger than that to the next one in the rung again.
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Thats a good point, BCs were easily bought at my means, but we all know you can't just road 0 sec to fight other loners efficiently. You gotta join a corp to really survive it, and I wasn't really prepared to do that during my run with it. I've lost destroyers and such to 1v1 PvP against a bigger ship, figured I really didn't want to lose anything bigger than that to the next one in the rung again.
That's true it took me a long ass time to train into a good ship that solo pvp's efficiently.
You can join FW and roam around with the new fleet finder mechanic though.
Join up even in a frig and learn about pvp mechanics with hundreds of other newbs in low sec.
It so much easier to get into pvp now, yet most people are afraid or uninformed of the features that are available to them.
Two different types of carebear players. Those that prefer to pve but like pvp also just not tossed at them while they pve and those just straight up afraid to pvp (we see a lot of those in Eve). Those carebears are the inferior people we give a hardtime. Being afraid of people in a videogame? That's pathetic shit. If that's not bad enough they have the balls to try to get my favorite games changed to suit their pussy asses.
EVE is a horrible example as anyone without a corp to reoutfit a loss means spending a lot of personal time/money to stomach getting popped. It took me forever to save up and buy a Domi, and even with the new missions I could do in it, it would take a long-ass time to get another one if I lost it. Fear of PvP in EVE is easily explainable, why people fear it in a game like AoC is questionable. All that costs you is time.
Eve has ton's of guides to help with making isk. Also your domi was for mission running? you could easily have flown a cruiser or something and messed with pvp.
No need to lose something you can't afford to replace (On of eve survival rules btw).
You think My alt takes his 1+ billion isk Navy Domi out of empire? why? That would be dumb, doesnt mean im afraid. Some people wont even leave empire in a 20k isk frig lol.
Then they have the nerve to talk shit to the devs on forums.
What I'm trying to say is normal pvpers only give carebears shit that actually deserve it.
I see (I don't play Eve) but if I understand it right then pvp in Eve equates to an ability to basically full loot everything from the other guy ? I can see why this may appeal to some and why some people may not be interested in this since they have invested time and effort in building their mains but then as you said, they can always take an alt out and fool around with it in pvp.
I guess in EQ and Lotro, pvp may not have the same level of interest, hence why I never saw the attraction in it. Killing someone for their camp even after they tell you that they've been there a couple days (in EQ) for the mob just seems pointless somehow. Plus I recall hearing stories from a friend who used to play Shadowbane saying that there were people who actually camp starting areas just so they can kill new subs who log in for their loot. I could never understand that.
The majority of animosity towards carebears isn't just in regards to PvP, its when people whine and complain that something is too difficult, and they demand the game be changed around them. I have nothing against PvEers, in fact I love PvE. But when you have PvErs crying for the game to be warped to accomodate them "add instancing! give me a safe zone, give me teleport pads!" that's being a carebear.
That's what I always thought being a Carebear meant. Didn't know that it was being used to apply to anyone who pve.
As a previous poster stated, I have a job too and dealing with co-workers on a daily basis who seem to do their damnest to stab me in my back, take credit for my work, lord it over me that they're 1 level up the ladder from me, and generally just being a pain in the ass does not exactly spur me on to want to deal with the same crap in pvp.
Besides, when I buy a game, I buy it for the content. As an analogy, I would like to think that I bought a car to drive to work, do my groceries, visit my family & friends, drive around etc, not just to buy a car so I can ram my neighbor in the ass with it when he isn't looking. Don't get me wrong, I used to pvp back in EQ days but just didn't see the thrill in it. Yup so I kill the other guy or he/she kills me and uhmm yup, ok, so now what ? Bragging rights I guess. At least with pve I can do a successful raid, use my dkp to get that brand new shiny new sword or something to not only show off but at least make me more useful in other encounters.
You kill each other over and over in EQ PVP? What server was this where you had people killing each other over and over, with exp loss, for no reason? Really?
On my PvP server, you don't fight people for no reason, like you said you did. You fight people to control PvE zones or prevent people from gaining certain gear/keys..
If you even played EQ PvP you wouldn't say it is just bragging rights. People didn't fight each other there for no.Unless you are talking about a blue server's arena.
A PvPer can also PvE, but a PvPer is a person who likes integrated PvP within their server or with their PvE content. A carebear is someone who just PvEs, and does not PvP at all. Want to see a carebear? WoW is a carebear game, no real PvP system to speak of.
Anyway, many people who are good at PvP are also good at PvE and enjoy both. They like having both PvP and PvE options open to them. That is because they think the mode of progression on a server should be through PvE content, but the PvE content can be used against other guilds/players on the server for their own advantage.
A carebear is someone who will just get more and more PvE gear for the sake of getting more PvE gear and will/does not use it against other players on the same server. They just want to PvE all day and not have anything fun/unpredictable happen.
I wander what gink thinks about PVEers? oO Most of your comment is just hardcore bias. No pvp in WoW? WoW has quite a large pvp system including many pvp servers and many hardcore gamers that enjoy it. Don't let your WoW hatred cloud your mind. Your definition of a carebear just shows that you think you're better then they are for some reason. You must be one of those hardcore nerds that measure your self esteem by how many nubs you can gank in a given period. Enjoy your "fun/unpredictable" game style choice.
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server.
WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW.
I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
EVE pvp is harsh, and can be very harsh if someone decides they do, in fact, want to destroy your pod.
For those who don't know much about EVE and consider it "full-loot pvp" or something, here's a few things and estimated costs:
If someone destroys your ship, you have lost:
-All items in the ship (jesus, 0ISK -> trillions of credits worth)
-All ammunition (probably 5,000 credits for low end, and 10,000,000's of credits at high battlecruiser end of things)
-All equipment, turrets, lasers, missile launchers, shield boosters, rigs (anywhere from 5,000 credits, say with one Miner I laser equipped, all the way up to billions of credits worth of launchers, lasers, and especially upgrades and rigs)
-The ship itself (20,000 credits all the way up to 1,000,000,000,000 credits, I think, for a huge ass mother f***er)
Once you die, you "escape" the blast of the ship inside a "pod" - this little thing can warp alright, and you'd best warp as fast as you can, because if you don't, and you get your pod killed, well:
-Any implants (stat boosters, stats like intelligence, charisma, perception, memory and that, help your skill training time get reduced) will be lost, these are usually tens of millions or billions each, depending on their quality
-You'll have to buy a new clone (which ranges from tens of thousands of credits all the way up to millions of credits)
And, god forbid, if you don't have a clone that has enough skill points in it (i.e. - you have trained 10,000,000 worth of skills, but have been lazy and haven't upgraded your clone to a better grade of clone, and only have a 9,000,000 skill point clone) you will lose skills that you've trained.
There's reason to be fearful of pvp, I think. Although, I only have about 600,000 skill points worth trained, so my clones are still dirt cheap, and I could go out and pvp, do some tackling (warp disrupting?, webifiers?) if I wanted to... I just wanna mine before I go out and die a whole bunch.
I still need a corp.
Also, happy birthday to me... I'ma go out and have fun now.
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server. WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW. I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server. WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW. I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
"Carebear" in MMO gaming is synonymous with a PVE player who favors helping and "caring" over ruthless PVP play. "Carebear" is also a contemptuous label many PVP players place upon the PVE crowd, thinking the latter must be wimps because they cannot handle the tension of player versus player dynamics.
While "Carebear" used to be a sort of insult, it is now more embraced as simply being a PVE player.
This is completely wrong. Carebear has nothing to do with PVE or PVP, a carebear is someone that wants low risk and effort in an MMO, regardless of PVP or PVE.
For instance a PVPr asking for safe zones in cities and lets say other spots in the wild, might be labelled as carebear by other PVPrs.
The majority of animosity towards carebears isn't just in regards to PvP, its when people whine and complain that something is too difficult, and they demand the game be changed around them. I have nothing against PvEers, in fact I love PvE. But when you have PvErs crying for the game to be warped to accomodate them "add instancing! give me a safe zone, give me teleport pads!" that's being a carebear.
I guess its totally ok for PvP'ers to whine and complain about warlocks face rolling them into the dirt, or whining about rogues being to OP. they all whine and they all cry. pvp and pve'ers alike. pve'ers whine about pve, pvp'ers whine about pvp. i see no difference.
no , when pvp'ers whine they call it "trying to balance the game properly" don'tchaknow :P
Or call that particualr class 'Broken' and needs to be nerfed, which then begins a flamewar of 'L2Play noob', 'GTFO' etc. etc.
then the game company nerfs a class beyond belief and they now suck then all of those people are bitching because that class can't do shit in pve anymore and everyone's pissed about it. Case and point would have to be Death Knights from wow. Sure yeah when they first came out i heard they were all extremely op but then blizzard nerfed them beyond anyone's hopes now they're back at being a good ol' face roll class. PvPers who whine about OP classes and class x needs to be nerfed since they beat them need to go die in a whole imo. Most of the time especially in big mmos, people will just killed by class x and they're class y. So they say class x sucks nerf them and buff class y. So then a couple thousand idiots agree and threads upon threads start up about it. Then there's a never ending nerf war.
This is how i believe that the whole "carebear" ish whimpish and "PvPers" are uber thing comes into horrible ideology. Both have their morons, both have their intellectuals. It's just it's not like any games out there has NO pvp except well lotro. And look at their game it's doing ok yeah but still not alot of people play it. With PvP and PvE in the same game you'll get pvpers saying class x is op so then devs nerf them then people will be like "oh thish class no sucks for pve waaaah" so they'll buff then some idiot pvper will be like NERF THEM. And it never ends.
My dream is that someday the voices of morons will never be heard on the internet.
The majority of animosity towards carebears isn't just in regards to PvP, its when people whine and complain that something is too difficult, and they demand the game be changed around them. I have nothing against PvEers, in fact I love PvE. But when you have PvErs crying for the game to be warped to accomodate them "add instancing! give me a safe zone, give me teleport pads!" that's being a carebear.
I guess its totally ok for PvP'ers to whine and complain about warlocks face rolling them into the dirt, or whining about rogues being to OP. they all whine and they all cry. pvp and pve'ers alike. pve'ers whine about pve, pvp'ers whine about pvp. i see no difference.
Very true. Pure and simple it comes down to the fact very few people like to lose. I've met very few players in either the "carebear" or "hard core" categories that didn't cry like a little girl over some delusional perception that even though game mechanics allowed someone else to kick your ass they still should have used their own moral restraint not to. With the pve oriented its the idea that even though they play in a game where world pvp is allowed they should somehow be above being a target. And in the pvp oriented it is usually they feel that they should somehow be exempt from being attacked and/or camped by someone much higher level than they are.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Carebear = A term nerds use against others to feel better about themselves.
Seriously.
The name calling and stereotypes have gotten really pathetic. It seems a lot of you are actually beginning to believe your own propaganda.
So does this mean, its OK to call someone a Carebear, because that would make that person a big ol' hypocrite=) You call someone a carebear YOU are the one who already passed into the world of pathetic, by the way.
Why not just say, someone who plays a different way then me and leave it at that? Nope. People have to just make their play style SUPERIOR, which is ALWAYS the case when people use the term carebear to denounce someone elses chosen style of play.
By the wya, I enjoy Pve and PvP in the same game, but I guess if its not FFA & full looting, that makes me a carebear=)
Originally posted by metalhead980 YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves. If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks. When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad. Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
Totally agree. Funny how those gankers have never wanted to admit that thier behavior is what brought about Trammel in UO.
Originally posted by metalhead980 YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves. If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks. When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad. Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
Totally agree. Funny how those gankers have never wanted to admit that thier behavior is what brought about Trammel in UO.
Actually there have been some good arguments that it was the arrival and success of EQ on the scene that prompted the creation of Trammel.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server. WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW. I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
QFT.
The only PVP I generally see in most games is the traditional hi-bies gank the lowbies stuff. Particularly in WoW, in the form of level capped rogues sneaking around the lvl 20 zones doing 1hk's and camping their graves.
It seems to be that the true definition of a carebear, from your average players perspective, is someone who complains about something that has no effect on said average player. Someone mentioned the nerfing of the Death Knight. One perspective would say that a bunch of carebears whined about the DK being OP, so Blizzard nerfed them. Another perspective is that a bunch of carebears are whining because the DK got nerfed.
IMO, a TRUE carebear is somebody that vents their world frustration in a video game, rather than, say, joining the military, volunteering for a cause they believe in, or training and fighting in the UFC.
Summary... the term "carebear" in video games is adolescent nonsense, as is the term "hardcore". We're talking about video games, here. "Hardcore" is to "gamer" as "athlete" is to "bowler".
I play PvP almost exclusively in every game I try. However, even I've been referred to as a "Carebear". I enjoy the risk and that "always looking over your shoulder" feel of an open world PvP environment. But, I am absolutely terrible at PvP fights even in the best conditions. I enjoy activites such as harvesting, tradeskilling, and the occasional fight. Regardless, the hard core folks still toss "carebear" in my direction because I'm not actively out looking for fights 24/7365 and will run from a fight where I am outnumbered.
In my opinion, "Carebear" is a term used by more hard core players of all play styles to ridicule people who don't take the game as seriously or invest as much time in a game as much as they do.
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server. WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW. I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
This post just exemplifies the need for the people who want Resource Competition to get their own term. So much ganking and one-sided slaughters happen in resource competition games that it's really not accurate to call it "PVP". Whereas in true PVP games, the game is about being more skilled than your opponent (through a combination of twitch and/or strategy/tactical skill.) True PVP games are things like FPSes, RTSes, DOTA-like games, or WOW BG/Arenas. Basically games where the gameplay is focused on actual PVP, rather than player fighting being much more rare and a lot less about skilled play.
For that matter, it's questionable to call normal PVP "bastardized" when it's been the norm throughout gaming history. You don't accumulate Queen factories by winning Chess games (which let you start each progressive game with more and more queens.) The game has stood the test of time because it's instanced (each chess board is a private arena) and skill is the only thing that determines victory.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server. WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW. I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
This post just exemplifies the need for the people who want Resource Competition to get their own term. So much ganking and one-sided slaughters happen in resource competition games that it's really not accurate to call it "PVP". Whereas in true PVP games, the game is about being more skilled than your opponent (through a combination of twitch and/or strategy/tactical skill.) True PVP games are things like FPSes, RTSes, DOTA-like games, or WOW BG/Arenas. Basically games where the gameplay is focused on actual PVP, rather than player fighting being much more rare and a lot less about skilled play.
For that matter, it's questionable to call normal PVP "bastardized" when it's been the norm throughout gaming history. You don't accumulate Queen factories by winning Chess games (which let you start each progressive game with more and more queens.) The game has stood the test of time because it's instanced (each chess board is a private arena) and skill is the only thing that determines victory.
I say that because Originally MMO pvp was about war, large scale open world pvp.
Problem was we also had the gank tards ruining it for the real pvpers in these games.
Fighting over resources, territory and open world pve encounters would have been just fine if people could be civil to bad thats too much to ask of this genres pvp community.
MMO devs have never been able to get large scale warfare right so now we have instances that make mmo pvp into this hybrid fps mini map pvp game.
I prefer the large scale wars imo, I would rather play CS or TF2 if i want even teams it just doesn't fit mmos right.
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PvP in most modern MMOs has less death penalties or none at all compared to PvE, something to think about.
Some people are making good points, everyone else is taking this as the moment to vent that PvPers are jocks and PvEers the chess club.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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Seriously.
The name calling and stereotypes have gotten really pathetic. It seems a lot of you are actually beginning to believe your own propaganda.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Two different types of carebear players.
Those that prefer to pve but like pvp also just not tossed at them while they pve and those just straight up afraid to pvp (we see a lot of those in Eve).
Those carebears are the inferior people we give a hardtime.
Being afraid of people in a videogame? That's pathetic shit.
If that's not bad enough they have the balls to try to get my favorite games changed to suit their pussy asses.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
EVE is a horrible example as anyone without a corp to reoutfit a loss means spending a lot of personal time/money to stomach getting popped. It took me forever to save up and buy a Domi, and even with the new missions I could do in it, it would take a long-ass time to get another one if I lost it. Fear of PvP in EVE is easily explainable, why people fear it in a game like AoC is questionable. All that costs you is time.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
EVE is a horrible example as anyone without a corp to reoutfit a loss means spending a lot of personal time/money to stomach getting popped. It took me forever to save up and buy a Domi, and even with the new missions I could do in it, it would take a long-ass time to get another one if I lost it. Fear of PvP in EVE is easily explainable, why people fear it in a game like AoC is questionable. All that costs you is time.
Eve has ton's of guides to help with making isk. Also your domi was for mission running? you could easily have flown a cruiser or something and messed with pvp.
No need to lose something you can't afford to replace (On of eve survival rules btw).
You think My alt takes his 1+ billion isk Navy Domi out of empire? why? That would be dumb, doesnt mean im afraid. Some people wont even leave empire in a 20k isk frig lol.
Then they have the nerve to talk shit to the devs on forums.
What I'm trying to say is normal pvpers only give carebears shit that actually deserve it.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Thats a good point, BCs were easily bought at my means, but we all know you can't just road 0 sec to fight other loners efficiently. You gotta join a corp to really survive it, and I wasn't really prepared to do that during my run with it. I've lost destroyers and such to 1v1 PvP against a bigger ship, figured I really didn't want to lose anything bigger than that to the next one in the rung again.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
That's true it took me a long ass time to train into a good ship that solo pvp's efficiently.
You can join FW and roam around with the new fleet finder mechanic though.
Join up even in a frig and learn about pvp mechanics with hundreds of other newbs in low sec.
It so much easier to get into pvp now, yet most people are afraid or uninformed of the features that are available to them.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Aha, I think should I return, FW will be the first thing I do.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
EVE is a horrible example as anyone without a corp to reoutfit a loss means spending a lot of personal time/money to stomach getting popped. It took me forever to save up and buy a Domi, and even with the new missions I could do in it, it would take a long-ass time to get another one if I lost it. Fear of PvP in EVE is easily explainable, why people fear it in a game like AoC is questionable. All that costs you is time.
Eve has ton's of guides to help with making isk. Also your domi was for mission running? you could easily have flown a cruiser or something and messed with pvp.
No need to lose something you can't afford to replace (On of eve survival rules btw).
You think My alt takes his 1+ billion isk Navy Domi out of empire? why? That would be dumb, doesnt mean im afraid. Some people wont even leave empire in a 20k isk frig lol.
Then they have the nerve to talk shit to the devs on forums.
What I'm trying to say is normal pvpers only give carebears shit that actually deserve it.
I see (I don't play Eve) but if I understand it right then pvp in Eve equates to an ability to basically full loot everything from the other guy ? I can see why this may appeal to some and why some people may not be interested in this since they have invested time and effort in building their mains but then as you said, they can always take an alt out and fool around with it in pvp.
I guess in EQ and Lotro, pvp may not have the same level of interest, hence why I never saw the attraction in it. Killing someone for their camp even after they tell you that they've been there a couple days (in EQ) for the mob just seems pointless somehow. Plus I recall hearing stories from a friend who used to play Shadowbane saying that there were people who actually camp starting areas just so they can kill new subs who log in for their loot. I could never understand that.
That's what I always thought being a Carebear meant. Didn't know that it was being used to apply to anyone who pve.
As a previous poster stated, I have a job too and dealing with co-workers on a daily basis who seem to do their damnest to stab me in my back, take credit for my work, lord it over me that they're 1 level up the ladder from me, and generally just being a pain in the ass does not exactly spur me on to want to deal with the same crap in pvp.
Besides, when I buy a game, I buy it for the content. As an analogy, I would like to think that I bought a car to drive to work, do my groceries, visit my family & friends, drive around etc, not just to buy a car so I can ram my neighbor in the ass with it when he isn't looking. Don't get me wrong, I used to pvp back in EQ days but just didn't see the thrill in it. Yup so I kill the other guy or he/she kills me and uhmm yup, ok, so now what ? Bragging rights I guess. At least with pve I can do a successful raid, use my dkp to get that brand new shiny new sword or something to not only show off but at least make me more useful in other encounters.
You kill each other over and over in EQ PVP? What server was this where you had people killing each other over and over, with exp loss, for no reason? Really?
On my PvP server, you don't fight people for no reason, like you said you did. You fight people to control PvE zones or prevent people from gaining certain gear/keys..
If you even played EQ PvP you wouldn't say it is just bragging rights. People didn't fight each other there for no.Unless you are talking about a blue server's arena.
A PvPer can also PvE, but a PvPer is a person who likes integrated PvP within their server or with their PvE content. A carebear is someone who just PvEs, and does not PvP at all. Want to see a carebear? WoW is a carebear game, no real PvP system to speak of.
Anyway, many people who are good at PvP are also good at PvE and enjoy both. They like having both PvP and PvE options open to them. That is because they think the mode of progression on a server should be through PvE content, but the PvE content can be used against other guilds/players on the server for their own advantage.
A carebear is someone who will just get more and more PvE gear for the sake of getting more PvE gear and will/does not use it against other players on the same server. They just want to PvE all day and not have anything fun/unpredictable happen.
I wander what gink thinks about PVEers? oO Most of your comment is just hardcore bias. No pvp in WoW? WoW has quite a large pvp system including many pvp servers and many hardcore gamers that enjoy it. Don't let your WoW hatred cloud your mind. Your definition of a carebear just shows that you think you're better then they are for some reason. You must be one of those hardcore nerds that measure your self esteem by how many nubs you can gank in a given period. Enjoy your "fun/unpredictable" game style choice.
I enjoy games that are challenging. WoW is not challenging. WoW PvP does not exist, it is something you do inside of protected instances that are not even on your own server.
WoWs PvP servers do not have any PvP. If you actually played one, you would realize they have no PvP. Why would anyone PvP when there is no reason to fight? When you kill someone and they come back in ghost form and jump you when you're fighting NPCs. There isn't even a death penalty in WoW. So PvP on WoWs PvP server is just a matter of who has more time, not who is better. That's why no one PvPs in WoW.
I don't care about "ganking nubs" I just prefer games where PvE and PvP are somehow integrated and PvP is on your own server. Some people like their MMORPGs like Diablo 2 though, just go into a new room every 5 minutes.
EVE pvp is harsh, and can be very harsh if someone decides they do, in fact, want to destroy your pod.
For those who don't know much about EVE and consider it "full-loot pvp" or something, here's a few things and estimated costs:
If someone destroys your ship, you have lost:
-All items in the ship (jesus, 0ISK -> trillions of credits worth)
-All ammunition (probably 5,000 credits for low end, and 10,000,000's of credits at high battlecruiser end of things)
-All equipment, turrets, lasers, missile launchers, shield boosters, rigs (anywhere from 5,000 credits, say with one Miner I laser equipped, all the way up to billions of credits worth of launchers, lasers, and especially upgrades and rigs)
-The ship itself (20,000 credits all the way up to 1,000,000,000,000 credits, I think, for a huge ass mother f***er)
Once you die, you "escape" the blast of the ship inside a "pod" - this little thing can warp alright, and you'd best warp as fast as you can, because if you don't, and you get your pod killed, well:
-Any implants (stat boosters, stats like intelligence, charisma, perception, memory and that, help your skill training time get reduced) will be lost, these are usually tens of millions or billions each, depending on their quality
-You'll have to buy a new clone (which ranges from tens of thousands of credits all the way up to millions of credits)
And, god forbid, if you don't have a clone that has enough skill points in it (i.e. - you have trained 10,000,000 worth of skills, but have been lazy and haven't upgraded your clone to a better grade of clone, and only have a 9,000,000 skill point clone) you will lose skills that you've trained.
There's reason to be fearful of pvp, I think. Although, I only have about 600,000 skill points worth trained, so my clones are still dirt cheap, and I could go out and pvp, do some tackling (warp disrupting?, webifiers?) if I wanted to... I just wanna mine before I go out and die a whole bunch.
I still need a corp.
Also, happy birthday to me... I'ma go out and have fun now.
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Idiots with low self-esteeem ruined pvp. Usually the same persons who ruin the servers they play on, or even worse; the game they play.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
"Carebear" in MMO gaming is synonymous with a PVE player who favors helping and "caring" over ruthless PVP play. "Carebear" is also a contemptuous label many PVP players place upon the PVE crowd, thinking the latter must be wimps because they cannot handle the tension of player versus player dynamics.
While "Carebear" used to be a sort of insult, it is now more embraced as simply being a PVE player.
This is completely wrong. Carebear has nothing to do with PVE or PVP, a carebear is someone that wants low risk and effort in an MMO, regardless of PVP or PVE.
For instance a PVPr asking for safe zones in cities and lets say other spots in the wild, might be labelled as carebear by other PVPrs.
I guess its totally ok for PvP'ers to whine and complain about warlocks face rolling them into the dirt, or whining about rogues being to OP. they all whine and they all cry. pvp and pve'ers alike. pve'ers whine about pve, pvp'ers whine about pvp. i see no difference.
no , when pvp'ers whine they call it "trying to balance the game properly" don'tchaknow :P
Or call that particualr class 'Broken' and needs to be nerfed, which then begins a flamewar of 'L2Play noob', 'GTFO' etc. etc.
then the game company nerfs a class beyond belief and they now suck then all of those people are bitching because that class can't do shit in pve anymore and everyone's pissed about it. Case and point would have to be Death Knights from wow. Sure yeah when they first came out i heard they were all extremely op but then blizzard nerfed them beyond anyone's hopes now they're back at being a good ol' face roll class. PvPers who whine about OP classes and class x needs to be nerfed since they beat them need to go die in a whole imo. Most of the time especially in big mmos, people will just killed by class x and they're class y. So they say class x sucks nerf them and buff class y. So then a couple thousand idiots agree and threads upon threads start up about it. Then there's a never ending nerf war.
This is how i believe that the whole "carebear" ish whimpish and "PvPers" are uber thing comes into horrible ideology. Both have their morons, both have their intellectuals. It's just it's not like any games out there has NO pvp except well lotro. And look at their game it's doing ok yeah but still not alot of people play it. With PvP and PvE in the same game you'll get pvpers saying class x is op so then devs nerf them then people will be like "oh thish class no sucks for pve waaaah" so they'll buff then some idiot pvper will be like NERF THEM. And it never ends.
My dream is that someday the voices of morons will never be heard on the internet.
I guess its totally ok for PvP'ers to whine and complain about warlocks face rolling them into the dirt, or whining about rogues being to OP. they all whine and they all cry. pvp and pve'ers alike. pve'ers whine about pve, pvp'ers whine about pvp. i see no difference.
Very true. Pure and simple it comes down to the fact very few people like to lose. I've met very few players in either the "carebear" or "hard core" categories that didn't cry like a little girl over some delusional perception that even though game mechanics allowed someone else to kick your ass they still should have used their own moral restraint not to. With the pve oriented its the idea that even though they play in a game where world pvp is allowed they should somehow be above being a target. And in the pvp oriented it is usually they feel that they should somehow be exempt from being attacked and/or camped by someone much higher level than they are.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Seriously.
The name calling and stereotypes have gotten really pathetic. It seems a lot of you are actually beginning to believe your own propaganda.
So does this mean, its OK to call someone a Carebear, because that would make that person a big ol' hypocrite=) You call someone a carebear YOU are the one who already passed into the world of pathetic, by the way.
Why not just say, someone who plays a different way then me and leave it at that? Nope. People have to just make their play style SUPERIOR, which is ALWAYS the case when people use the term carebear to denounce someone elses chosen style of play.
By the wya, I enjoy Pve and PvP in the same game, but I guess if its not FFA & full looting, that makes me a carebear=)
Totally agree. Funny how those gankers have never wanted to admit that thier behavior is what brought about Trammel in UO.
Totally agree. Funny how those gankers have never wanted to admit that thier behavior is what brought about Trammel in UO.
Actually there have been some good arguments that it was the arrival and success of EQ on the scene that prompted the creation of Trammel.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
QFT.
The only PVP I generally see in most games is the traditional hi-bies gank the lowbies stuff. Particularly in WoW, in the form of level capped rogues sneaking around the lvl 20 zones doing 1hk's and camping their graves.
It seems to be that the true definition of a carebear, from your average players perspective, is someone who complains about something that has no effect on said average player. Someone mentioned the nerfing of the Death Knight. One perspective would say that a bunch of carebears whined about the DK being OP, so Blizzard nerfed them. Another perspective is that a bunch of carebears are whining because the DK got nerfed.
IMO, a TRUE carebear is somebody that vents their world frustration in a video game, rather than, say, joining the military, volunteering for a cause they believe in, or training and fighting in the UFC.
Summary... the term "carebear" in video games is adolescent nonsense, as is the term "hardcore". We're talking about video games, here. "Hardcore" is to "gamer" as "athlete" is to "bowler".
I play PvP almost exclusively in every game I try. However, even I've been referred to as a "Carebear". I enjoy the risk and that "always looking over your shoulder" feel of an open world PvP environment. But, I am absolutely terrible at PvP fights even in the best conditions. I enjoy activites such as harvesting, tradeskilling, and the occasional fight. Regardless, the hard core folks still toss "carebear" in my direction because I'm not actively out looking for fights 24/7365 and will run from a fight where I am outnumbered.
In my opinion, "Carebear" is a term used by more hard core players of all play styles to ridicule people who don't take the game as seriously or invest as much time in a game as much as they do.
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
This post just exemplifies the need for the people who want Resource Competition to get their own term. So much ganking and one-sided slaughters happen in resource competition games that it's really not accurate to call it "PVP". Whereas in true PVP games, the game is about being more skilled than your opponent (through a combination of twitch and/or strategy/tactical skill.) True PVP games are things like FPSes, RTSes, DOTA-like games, or WOW BG/Arenas. Basically games where the gameplay is focused on actual PVP, rather than player fighting being much more rare and a lot less about skilled play.
For that matter, it's questionable to call normal PVP "bastardized" when it's been the norm throughout gaming history. You don't accumulate Queen factories by winning Chess games (which let you start each progressive game with more and more queens.) The game has stood the test of time because it's instanced (each chess board is a private arena) and skill is the only thing that determines victory.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You're basically saying that competitive PvP is not PvP at all. Think again buddy. In my mind, competitive PvP is the only challenging PvP out there.
YOu know Hardcore pvpers did this to themselves.
If you guys just chilled out and didn't gank people so hard in UO then we wouldn't have this bastardized version of "Fair" pvp you find in today's themeparks.
When I played UO I didn't gank everyone, I needed a reason. Most of you guys ganked hoping to get that guy/gal to uninstall. Proven by the shear number of players within a gank squad.
Well guess what, shitty, worthless arenas and pvp mini games are the future we look forward to due to your actions.
This post just exemplifies the need for the people who want Resource Competition to get their own term. So much ganking and one-sided slaughters happen in resource competition games that it's really not accurate to call it "PVP". Whereas in true PVP games, the game is about being more skilled than your opponent (through a combination of twitch and/or strategy/tactical skill.) True PVP games are things like FPSes, RTSes, DOTA-like games, or WOW BG/Arenas. Basically games where the gameplay is focused on actual PVP, rather than player fighting being much more rare and a lot less about skilled play.
For that matter, it's questionable to call normal PVP "bastardized" when it's been the norm throughout gaming history. You don't accumulate Queen factories by winning Chess games (which let you start each progressive game with more and more queens.) The game has stood the test of time because it's instanced (each chess board is a private arena) and skill is the only thing that determines victory.
I say that because Originally MMO pvp was about war, large scale open world pvp.
Problem was we also had the gank tards ruining it for the real pvpers in these games.
Fighting over resources, territory and open world pve encounters would have been just fine if people could be civil to bad thats too much to ask of this genres pvp community.
MMO devs have never been able to get large scale warfare right so now we have instances that make mmo pvp into this hybrid fps mini map pvp game.
I prefer the large scale wars imo, I would rather play CS or TF2 if i want even teams it just doesn't fit mmos right.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum