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Why I quit - lack of class identity
The reason I quit this game is because I felt it was to easy to switch between roles, or classes, it leaves you without a character identity like "mage" or "swordsman" especially between those two. I didn't think that would be a problem but it turns out the whole game feels flat to me without that RPG element.
I think some ways to solve this might be to put limits on how much you can carry around, and also some time limits to changing armor and weapons. And to have a more set up "path" for different careers, so that you kind of get a career identity.
For instance if you chose to go the wizard path, you'd have to hold accountable by an npc mage council or something. Mostly everyone can use melee weapons.
I would have made the mage career more of a main group support career, so that in an alliance you'd have alot of melee'ers and and a few wizards doing complex and vulnerable spellcastings with powerful result when finally unleashed. To get more player variety.
Just a few thoughts. i don't play anymore, since I don't think it will happen, at least not for a long time yet.
Other than that I enjoyed the game alot, really interesting to experince FFA and player looting.
Comments
Sorry, but if you haven't noticed by now, the whole point of Darkfall is that there are no classes. If it's not what you like, you don't have to play. I personally HATE classes. It leads me to making alts and that just gets BORING. With no classes I can have 1 character that does everthing I want. Idk just my opinion on this.
You do realize there are specializations in the game now which limit your abilities elsewhere, but enforce your strength with your chosen path. Also, your role is easily defined in DF by the gear you wear, ie; player in metal armor has high magic encumberance and as such casts very slowly, with little effect, and has lowered damage with ranged. Yeah, any character can do anything it wants, and can (with an extreme amount of time) master everything. However, there are definitely roles if you choose to take them in DF.
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Sorry, but if you haven't noticed by now, the whole point of Darkfall is that there are no classes. If it's not what you like, you don't have to play. I personally HATE classes. It leads me to making alts and that just gets BORING. With no classes I can have 1 character that does everthing I want. Idk just my opinion on this.
Aaaaannnnnddd you completely missed the point.
What he's saying is that everyone is carbon copies of one another, instead of making builds to excel to specialize in one area, most if not all of the player base is one of maybe two different builds.
The specializations introduced are a good first step; but they need some major retooling.
"LULZ I'm a mage killer I deal 40% damage more to mages... UNTIL they swap out their weapon.... OH AND I give up MP and several schools of magic for this!"
Sorry, but if you haven't noticed by now, the whole point of Darkfall is that there are no classes. If it's not what you like, you don't have to play. I personally HATE classes. It leads me to making alts and that just gets BORING. With no classes I can have 1 character that does everthing I want. Idk just my opinion on this.
Aaaaannnnnddd you completely missed the point.
What he's saying is that everyone is carbon copies of one another, instead of making builds to excel to specialize in one area, most if not all of the player base is one of maybe two different builds.
The specializations introduced are a good first step; but they need some major retooling.
"LULZ I'm a mage killer I deal 40% damage more to mages... UNTIL they swap out their weapon.... OH AND I give up MP and several schools of magic for this!"
I don't know. Sounds a bit more realistic to me if I could be a mage in my little robe casting spells and decide to put on my heavy armor, take out a sword or something, and let out some hurting on someone.
Hmm im not too fond on everyon being able to swap out their mage for a tank on the fly. I like to play a mage, i like the nukes, i like the cc and i love the kiting/easy death. I dont enjoy tanking or melee too much in mmorps, although in some games it can be fun.
Will i be leveling up my character in a way that isnt appealing just so im not gimped? You know the typical sandbox build of everything maxed?
So i can expect to get a few mage skill thrown at me, only to be charged by a guy now in plate and with an axe or whatever?
Seems like its going to mean a lot of time skilling skills just to be good and not to have fun.
Im still waiting on a free trial, since a lot of shadyness went down during development and i cant seem to find a review that isnt highly polarized ( this game is the best game vs this game sucks ass reviews)
Please tell me they have some sort of skill cap, so mabey i could be a mage, with possibly a tank buff or a few ranger cc's, but not be able to swap out full classes on the fly....
I completely agree with the OP. It doesn't bother me enough to ruin the experience for me, but the freedom should be maintained while still allowing for more specific specializations to happen.
Skill degradation is desperately needed.
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i belive what made you quit (and my restrain to buy it) is EXACLTY the core of this game, no classes, "everybody is a full plate mage with bow and spear" its just NOT our game
Thats why we should keep our eyes in Mortal Online if he has this diferent class aproach, i do like to fill a role, i dont like crafting, neither a big fan of magic so i always choose the "path" of the warrior, so in darkfall u MUST master those 3 paths (magic, ranged, melee) or you will be in desvantage against others.
do not worry, lets wait another 10 years for a game
now: GW2 (11 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
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Sorry, but if you haven't noticed by now, the whole point of Darkfall is that there are no classes. If it's not what you like, you don't have to play. I personally HATE classes. It leads me to making alts and that just gets BORING. With no classes I can have 1 character that does everthing I want. Idk just my opinion on this.
+1 same for me.
After playing mmos for years, this is what attracts me to Darkfall.
The classes is also one of the reasons why I can't stand mmos anymore.
I.ex: in Aoc and Lotro I am a melee fighter. After playing the same thing for 50 levels, Why The F* can't I take out my bow to change my play style for a little while?
To me, Darkfall is a real next gen game. It is still lacking in PVE world content and world life. But I think it is way above the rest.
(and no, I am not playing Darkfall, waiting for the pve to get there to subscribe).
There are significant advantages and disadvantages on what you wear. A player with lighter armor will cause greater damage with magery and regenerate faster. OTOH, a melee type player would likely be in plate or some thing close.
There is a timer when one equips or removes armor and one must be standing still and can only equip one item at a time. This was a recent change in the last expansion, so changing armor on the fly is dead and buried.
There are specializations that offer benefits and drawbacks. One can upgrade Melee, Archery, and/or Magery, and each upgrade has a downside in one of the other three basic roles; as in all games, that being some type of role as a Mage, Melee or Archer.
There are approximately ten (10) schools of magery each with many spells; approximately eight (8) melee type weapons each with special attacks one can train at various skill levels, and Archery which also has special skills and such one can train at various skill levels.
If you are unable to find a role in Darkfall, the fault is your own for not learning the game. One can be a pure caster, pure melee, or pure archer. Most players dabble a bit in each but specialize and gear up for one. The choice is the players resulting directly from how they decide to play the game, and not what button they pressed at character creation.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
This sounds much more RPG to me than the static forced classes.
I can't see why anyone would have a problem with this.
Just like to point out that they have made more specializations this last xpack and they have also said there will be much more in the one coming up.
Darkfall has gone this route over skill caps. Is it better, worse? I have no idea, but it is a work in progress and I am excited to see what they do. We should be seeing more people going full mage, more going melee and more going archer, rather then a big mix. In fact before launch DF did have classes of sorts, I guess they were specialization and specs of sorts that when you went fully one way you would get a title like Ranger and so on. Would not shock me to see something similar as their long term goal they are working on.
As for player roles, they are in game to an extent but like the game itself it is player choice on what role you will fill. Watch some raid videos and you will see clearly people taking roles from mages to archers to the guys up front doing melee and cavalry.
If you need a hard defined class, with hard defined skill sets and a defined group role, they DF may not be your game, it tries to let you dictate what you are, what you do and how you do it all.
I don't mind no classes and the new penalties are a huge step. But from the videos I've seen and the fact it looks to be in first person the game is obviously not for me.
Sorry, but if you haven't noticed by now, the whole point of Darkfall is that there are no classes. If it's not what you like, you don't have to play. I personally HATE classes. It leads me to making alts and that just gets BORING. With no classes I can have 1 character that does everthing I want. Idk just my opinion on this.
Aaaaannnnnddd you completely missed the point.
What he's saying is that everyone is carbon copies of one another, instead of making builds to excel to specialize in one area, most if not all of the player base is one of maybe two different builds.
The specializations introduced are a good first step; but they need some major retooling.
"LULZ I'm a mage killer I deal 40% damage more to mages... UNTIL they swap out their weapon.... OH AND I give up MP and several schools of magic for this!"
The main thing about this game is skill. Yes, everyone can be similar on paper, but because the game actually takes skill once people are even stat-wise, the better player wins... simple as that.
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Sorry, but if you haven't noticed by now, the whole point of Darkfall is that there are no classes. If it's not what you like, you don't have to play. I personally HATE classes. It leads me to making alts and that just gets BORING. With no classes I can have 1 character that does everthing I want. Idk just my opinion on this.
Aaaaannnnnddd you completely missed the point.
What he's saying is that everyone is carbon copies of one another, instead of making builds to excel to specialize in one area, most if not all of the player base is one of maybe two different builds.
The specializations introduced are a good first step; but they need some major retooling.
"LULZ I'm a mage killer I deal 40% damage more to mages... UNTIL they swap out their weapon.... OH AND I give up MP and several schools of magic for this!"
I don't know. Sounds a bit more realistic to me if I could be a mage in my little robe casting spells and decide to put on my heavy armor, take out a sword or something, and let out some hurting on someone.
Ah, the realism bit - the trump card of someone with no answers and no logic.
The main thing about this game is skill. Yes, everyone can be similar on paper, but because the game actually takes skill once people are even stat-wise, the better player wins... simple as that.
And how often does that happen, hm? After the requisite grind and circle jerking is completed, then it comes down to who has the best binds. Who can utilyze third party software the best in order to circumvent the game's ass backwards UI. Should the pair be well versed then maybe an even match can occur. Good luck getting a fresh population to this point after the just [i]lovely[/i] start this game had what with the cheating and the bloodwalling.
These Darkfall "pros" really get me though, they actually think they had some measure of skill because they can beat down a demographic that's even worse than the average pub FPS player.
well you really didnt play for very long because it seems you didnt notice that it takes minutes to change out mage armor for meelee armor, and archery armor is in the middle as far as class specced stuff ( while there is no speccing ranger healer mage meelee persay you can meelee in the heaviest armor unpenalized fully protected, you can only fully archer in med weight, cant cast in heaviest of med for jack shit and must be wearing only the lighest of armor for your magic to not be a joke) same with healing, too heavy on the armor and your casting is severly penalized. so while yes there are no clear cut classes, its like eve, you can learn to do everything at max, you just cant do it all at once!
I dont get this thread!
As if a class would have anything with identity to do?
You could continue that reason and say "all mages are the same in class based MMO".
The identity you will get from what you do ingame, defending citys, seeing the world, meeting people and so on.
All the theme park MMORPGs have twisted the minds of our youth, they seem to believe it is the right way and has always been so.
In game I'm a melee/archery char. I went mage hunter and indestructable, meaning I can't learn elemental magic. It was my choice and I could reverse it anytime I wanted. Some have the specializations some don't, unlike the standard theme park MMORPG I can't tell exactly what someone is and their level by looking at their gear, and that's fun.
But hey if we're gonna have classes why not ask AV to put levels in and xp from doing quests and we can all have a magic level sign floating above our heads to tell others exactly our ability. Also this combat is too hard, I want some alt tabbing and button mashing with an auto attack but PvP is limited to small zones with 90% of Agon being one big carebear love zone, I could go on but I think the OP gets the point?
We like it this way, it's fun. You can choose to be what you want and specialize as melee/archery or mage, if that isn't good enough well I pity you that you find freedom boring and prefer to be pigeon holed by force into certain classes with restricted abilities decided by some DEVs.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
nothing to fix because nothing is broken. DFO doesn't have enough unique abilities to warrant a skill cap for 1, secondly the game is more pvp focused than 90% of games on the market which means people need to be as close to identical as possible to keep everything fair. If you want the standard rock, paper, sisscors balance play a different game.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I totally agree with the OP. This is the only thing holding me back from trying Darkfall at this time.
Its like everyone is a clone. If this was supposed to mimic a "real" world rife with war, we wouldn't all be born with the same set of skills.
Genetics. Its just kind of weird that a brute warrior can also be a highly intelligent wizard. Or that its possible for anyone to be this at anytime. Seems more like a first person shooter, with rpg elements. (If this is exactly what they were going for, I apologize for not knowing.)
I actually like the sound of Mortal Onlines system better, but its questionable if that game will get off the ground successfully.
One of my favorite character systems was in Dungeons and Dragons Online. That kind of system, progressive skill based, without the class identity at the start is exactly the kind of system I would love in a Darkfall like game. Make it more detailed, less class oriented, and more physics focused.
Basically, not everyone gets better at something with practice. I suck at basketball and i've played at least once a week my entire life. I have short arms, small hands, and can't jump. In Darkfall everyone would be born Micheal Jordan clones, just lacking the practice to be a Basketball Pro.
Just seems lacking...
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
its not lacking, its just different. It focus on twitch skill more than most games out there. Sure, there are some balance issues, but a class based system aka hard cap is just as bad balance wise and forces you to be gimp when teh developers mess up.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
You mention everyone being a clone...to point out in a class based game that is the epitome of clones. If you are a mage....you are exactly like every single other mage around. Armor wise you will end up clones gettin same raid drops, skill wise the same, rotation wise the same...there is nothing at all to make you different except "talents" which throwing people a bone to stand out...but in reality does little and leads to min / maxing anyways.
At least in darkfall...you do not know what the person ahead of you is...you do not know what his skill rotation will, there are greater unknowns and variables in darkfall and it is far less clone like then a class based game because a class based game you are forced as everyone of a given class to be a certain way.
I tackle the question raised by the OP everytime I log into the game. And, at this point, I really doubt that anyone can broadly say: "You can be whatever you want!"
In theory, yes, you can. However, when reality rears its ugly face, things change. The world (and players) force you into some moulds, such as "Gotta use X into PVP, or you are gimped.", "You must have Fire Magic, otherwise you are useless to clans." Stuff like that.
One good example is Knifes and Greatmauls. Barely anyone use those. Why? Because they are "bad". If you don't push yourself into the optimal profile, you are just a nuisance and won't be accepted in many guilds. This is a very common subject of discussion in RA.
I heard this some times, already, when I said I wouldn't deal in magic: "LOL, then u suck." Ipsis literis, from at least 3 different people.
Specialization is a good and bad thing, at the same time. Good because it does provide an element of mystery regarding your enemy, but it shows a commitment from AV into perpetuating this mindset.
I'm still ok because I'm exploring and beefing up a bit. But when I go into the whole PVP thing, I expect several disappointments, however.
All the theme park MMORPGs have twisted the minds of our youth, they seem to believe it is the right way and has always been so.
There is no civil way to state this: you're a fucking retard.
What is the point of a skills system when everyone ends up the same? What is the point of specializations that do nothing to get players to focus on a specific roll? The skill system is supposed to promote variety and freedom - instead it perpetuates comformity. You need to have 50 in this and 75 in that to be competitive. You need to log 30 hours a day in order to stand a chance against that douche bag who poopsocked the limited shop at release and macro exploited his character up.
I remind you people that this is the MMORPG that was supposed to be "different" in this regard; and that you could "play it your way" and "be in the game from day one". I also remind you that EVE, actually has a proper skill system.
There really are no classes for there to be a "lack of class identity". If you have to define yourself with "mage, warrior etc" you can still do so, simply specialize in one area. Yes, in theory, one person can jump from one to the other on the fly. In practice however, with all the magic schools and types of weapons etc, it would take CONSIDERABLE time to max all of them. In the long run, if you want to be a mage, you still can be, just start going crazy with all the magic schools. If you want to be a warrior, become a master at arms and max out all the weapons. If anything Darkfall provides the ability to make custom classes, in that you can specialize in a particular weapon and particular school of magic, warrior that throws fireballs for example. Does that make the person who can call down a hail of every type of spell imagineable but couldn't swing a sword to save his life suddenly suffer crippling "class identity" because someone else can cast? Not really. All in all, everything is fine, though I do support their efforts to allow for more customization/specialization with the bonus/penalty system they've been putting in.
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