It is up to you how to level up your character in Darkfall and what kind of "class" or rather playstyle you are going to chose. It is YOU who decide to play another role. Nothing stops your from being a pure mage, a paladin, an assasin or a knight to the end of your DF sub. In fact I can create almost perfect copies of classes from games like Morrowind or Oblivion. What's wrong in that you can easily change your role ? As long you have skills, equipment and and money to support new role you can change your character and start to play the game in completly different way. For me it is convenience.
what would make that system better is skill level degrade based on non-use which I would bet my pay check is going to come within 12 months but be related to specialization skills that are comming.
I predict that all the skills we currently have will become "base skills". 2 years from now the rate to get base skills will be extreemly fast compared to what it is now. Specializations will be more specific to your area of intrest and will degrade on non-use.
Why do I predict this? Becuase its basically exactly what happend to EQ2 over the span of 4 years. Level 20 was at one time insanity to get, now you get it in almost a weekend.
Well I would mind that if the grind would be much much lower. However this system have one annoying disadvantage: you have to remember to use your skills if you want to keep them.
I would have thought that players would regularly use those skills that fit their playstyle, rather than remembering to use X skill Y amount of times a day. As much as I keep telling myself I have to use archery more, I keep running in and slapping people about with a greatsword, I just can't help myself!
Yeah I know, I'm gimping myself. On the plus side though, i have a massive chopper that I get to wave about every day.
Well I would mind that if the grind would be much much lower. However this system have one annoying disadvantage: you have to remember to use your skills if you want to keep them.
I would have thought that players would regularly use those skills that fit their playstyle, rather than remembering to use X skill Y amount of times a day. As much as I keep telling myself I have to use archery more, I keep running in and slapping people about with a greatsword, I just can't help myself!
Yeah I know, I'm gimping myself. On the plus side though, i have a massive chopper that I get to wave about every day.
Aww I got stabbed with your witty sarcasm straight through my heart.
We both know that I meant by it, there are useful skills which are situational and you don't use them often. Or maybe...we don't know ?
Aww I got stabbed with your witty sarcasm straight through my heart. We both know that I meant by it, there are useful skills which are situational and you don't use them often. Or maybe...we don't know ?
Well yeah but the intention of the game I think is to help change that mentality although i do not think darrkfall has gotten to that level yet.
here is a classic example.
I went to go kill some HawkRavens (whatever they are called) and despite my 75 archery I realized how fantastic it would be to have some magic becuase of the splash affect given the walls. At that time I really wanted to go work on my magic.
However, the correct answer should be the following
I decided to go on a raven hunt and instead of finding some random player for an increased party count I wanted to find a mage with some specific spells.
Above i think is what the goal of DF is although I think at the moment its not there.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I may be a retard but even a retard like myself can smell a QQ post coming a mile away Seriously you get rolled by some uber player and complain the skill system sucks? Against that uber pvper you need 80 - 100 in any pvp skill and atleast 50 in mastery to compete with him, then you need to be good at twitch combat. Either that or find some friends and go and roll him like a bitch, though I'll go out on a limb here and guess you had great difficulty making friends whilst in DFO?
SOOO you have nothing of value to add at all? Okay then, bye.
I don't like how ther seems to be a lack of trade offs in Darkfall. It baffels how someone in heavy armor can move just as easily as someone in no armor (it also bugs me that things turn on a dime and climb steep slopes with no speed penalty).
Could say "It was an up hill battle" and that would mean it was tough! instead of a camera adjustment.
What? How did you get this from what I wrote?
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
This game is scouts vs knives on a huge ass map. That's all it is. Same weapons. Same bunny hopping. Same strats for everybody. Scouts vs Knives was fun for 10 minutes in CS:S, but it's not fun in an MMORPG setting. What makes FPS games fun is that someone might be using a machine gun, while you're sniping them with a sniper rifle from afar. The various aspects to consider and to know what your advantages are and what theirs are and to try to trick them into moving to a position where you have the advantage.
All I'll say to this post is that, "classes" isn't the answer to the "everyone's a clone" problem. "Class-less" isn't the answer either. I'm not sure there really is one.
Why? Because I see the same exact behavior in every single MMO I play. People start playing and they immediately look for that "optimal build"... which skills to take, which gear to use, etc. I don't think it matters *how* the developers make the game, it's the *players* who are going to look for that perfect build template... or find a small variety of them.. and then that becomes how people play.
It's a genre-wide issue and, while poorly thought-out game mechanics are very likely to blame in some cases, in most cases - in my experience - it's the players restricting themselves.
I've seen it in sandbox MMOs, like Ryzom where even with all the freedom to develop a character exactly as you want... there are builds people gravitate toward.
I've seen it to a degree in Eve, but not as much. Typically the first question someone is asked when they want to know what the best build is, is "What kind of play style do you want?" or "What do you want to focus on?". Based on their answer, they'll get a few different possible suggestions. I think the reason it works a bit better in Eve than in most MMOs (again, in my experience), is because even while you can train - theoretically - *everything* in the game, and have a bazillion skill points to toss around... You can only use a limited amount of those skill points at a time. When you're flying a frigate with a specific load-out for a specific task, it doesn't matter what other skills you've trained - you're only using one specific subset of them at that point for that ship with that load out. You have to get back to a station to swap out your build, or change ships. So.. there's a limitation to it. You can do everything... but not at the same time, swapping out "on the fly" (which I realize is an ironic figure of speech, given Eve's gameplay).
I've seen it in so-called theme-park MMOs, where people begin their "careers" with "What's the best class in the game?" or "What's the best build for 'X' class?". There can be 20 classes to choose from, and the one they're told might not even be one they would enjoy... but as long as it's "the best class" by current standards, that's the one they'll play. And that changes as the developers attempt to continually balance the game... "nerfing" this... "buffing" that. What's considered "the best" today, will be considered "lolgimped" tomorrow and you'll see a large shift toward the new "best class"... until the "balancing hammer" strikes again.
To a degree, very, very few people in MMOs, in my experience, are true "explorers" in terms of experimenting and testing out different builds, learning the nuances and such to see what a particular skill-set, or a particular class or character build-out will do. They let others do the "footwork", then simply look up the latest "how to play" guide online, and that becomes their template.... Then they proceed to tell anyone not following it that they're "gimped", even having no real understanding of the game mechanics them self. I've always found it ironic when "template of the month" players tell those who actually learn by playing and digging and experimenting to "learn how to play".
It's been a fun pastime of mine in MMOs that I do know very well (like FFXI) to do that when people start getting all on their high-horse about how I'm "playing my job wrong", or have it geared incorrectly. I ask them why... explain to me, in terms of my specific racial abilities, and the specifics of my current job, how I'm playing it wrong. What should I improve on?". It's funny how often they can't answer. Why? Because they have no idea how the game mechanics work... They only know what some guide on some website says to use, and I'm not using it, so I must be "playing wrong". While I find exposing the lemming-like mentality of people like that entertaining, I also find it sad how often I run into it.
So... does this "everyone's the same" behavior happen in DF? I'm absolutely certain it does, and I've seen the same discussions as well.. "make sure you do "A" and "B" and "C", get "X, Y and Z" to at least 75 , or you'll be gimped". People mention wanting to try a specific build; something that they - gasp - would personally enjoy playing - and they're told not to because it would suck. They're told to follow a specific build, use specific skills and specific gear... Yes, I have witnessed this, and no, I'm not bashing Darkfall. It's the same in every single MMO I've played.
I think this picture sums it up perfectly and keep it handy for exactly these topics (I've used it many times in FFXI discussions):
In case the text is too small to read for some, it says,
"When People Are Free To Do As They Please, They Usually Imitate Each Other"
I've found that to be dead on in every MMO I've played, for the majority of people playing them. People clamor and complain and beg for a game with "more choices"... but then gravitate to the same handful of "optimal builds" that, interestingly, seem to either resemble standard classes, or a "jack of all trades" build, because they want to be able to do everything.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
All I'll say to this post is that, "classes" isn't the answer to the "everyone's a clone" problem. "Class-less" isn't the answer either. I'm not sure there really is one.
The answer is a skill cap, or some form of skill degradation. That would be the " ez " solution. The other more complicated solution would be to add in other game mechanics that influence how people build their characters. AV has already done one this a bit by tweaking armor and mob resistances.
For instance if you chose to go the wizard path, you'd have to hold accountable by an npc mage council or something. Mostly everyone can use melee weapons.
While for the most part I agree with class identities serving an important purpose I do have a small bone of contention with this.
I mean, try telling Gandalf that he can't use a sword. Or Elric. Or even Herald-Mage Vanyel.
I would be happy with a class system that restricted the mages ability with melee weapons, while still allowing some diversity and proficiency.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
All I'll say to this post is that, "classes" isn't the answer to the "everyone's a clone" problem. "Class-less" isn't the answer either. I'm not sure there really is one.
The answer is a skill cap, or some form of skill degradation. That would be the " ez " solution. The other more complicated solution would be to add in other game mechanics that influence how people build their characters. AV has already done one this a bit by tweaking armor and mob resistances.
The one thing I liked about Eve was that I could train my skills to be a miner, a frigate pilot, or a battleship pilot, but just because I could fly that battleship, didn't mean I could nessacerily fly a frigate better. I liked how I could be many diffrent things, but only one at a time. I like how darkfall is starting to implement give and take specializations, because it doesn't force someone to have to retrain, but just ditch the specializations. I think it would be cool if they had different varibles on arnor and stuff, besides protection. Like maybe increased 1h-sword damage at the expense of fire magic or something. Or maybe not even have a penalty for somethings.
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Comments
what would make that system better is skill level degrade based on non-use which I would bet my pay check is going to come within 12 months but be related to specialization skills that are comming.
I predict that all the skills we currently have will become "base skills". 2 years from now the rate to get base skills will be extreemly fast compared to what it is now. Specializations will be more specific to your area of intrest and will degrade on non-use.
Why do I predict this? Becuase its basically exactly what happend to EQ2 over the span of 4 years. Level 20 was at one time insanity to get, now you get it in almost a weekend.
Well I would mind that if the grind would be much much lower. However this system have one annoying disadvantage: you have to remember to use your skills if you want to keep them.
I would have thought that players would regularly use those skills that fit their playstyle, rather than remembering to use X skill Y amount of times a day. As much as I keep telling myself I have to use archery more, I keep running in and slapping people about with a greatsword, I just can't help myself!
Yeah I know, I'm gimping myself. On the plus side though, i have a massive chopper that I get to wave about every day.
Well I would mind that if the grind would be much much lower. However this system have one annoying disadvantage: you have to remember to use your skills if you want to keep them.
I would have thought that players would regularly use those skills that fit their playstyle, rather than remembering to use X skill Y amount of times a day. As much as I keep telling myself I have to use archery more, I keep running in and slapping people about with a greatsword, I just can't help myself!
Yeah I know, I'm gimping myself. On the plus side though, i have a massive chopper that I get to wave about every day.
Aww I got stabbed with your witty sarcasm straight through my heart.
We both know that I meant by it, there are useful skills which are situational and you don't use them often. Or maybe...we don't know ?
Well yeah but the intention of the game I think is to help change that mentality although i do not think darrkfall has gotten to that level yet.
here is a classic example.
I went to go kill some HawkRavens (whatever they are called) and despite my 75 archery I realized how fantastic it would be to have some magic becuase of the splash affect given the walls. At that time I really wanted to go work on my magic.
However, the correct answer should be the following
I decided to go on a raven hunt and instead of finding some random player for an increased party count I wanted to find a mage with some specific spells.
Above i think is what the goal of DF is although I think at the moment its not there.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
it is gripe for some darkfall players. something they tried to fix with expansion but didn't do a very good job to be honest.
My blog:
SOOO you have nothing of value to add at all? Okay then, bye.
Could say "It was an up hill battle" and that would mean it was tough! instead of a camera adjustment.
What? How did you get this from what I wrote?
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
This game is scouts vs knives on a huge ass map. That's all it is. Same weapons. Same bunny hopping. Same strats for everybody. Scouts vs Knives was fun for 10 minutes in CS:S, but it's not fun in an MMORPG setting. What makes FPS games fun is that someone might be using a machine gun, while you're sniping them with a sniper rifle from afar. The various aspects to consider and to know what your advantages are and what theirs are and to try to trick them into moving to a position where you have the advantage.
All I'll say to this post is that, "classes" isn't the answer to the "everyone's a clone" problem. "Class-less" isn't the answer either. I'm not sure there really is one.
Why? Because I see the same exact behavior in every single MMO I play. People start playing and they immediately look for that "optimal build"... which skills to take, which gear to use, etc. I don't think it matters *how* the developers make the game, it's the *players* who are going to look for that perfect build template... or find a small variety of them.. and then that becomes how people play.
It's a genre-wide issue and, while poorly thought-out game mechanics are very likely to blame in some cases, in most cases - in my experience - it's the players restricting themselves.
I've seen it in sandbox MMOs, like Ryzom where even with all the freedom to develop a character exactly as you want... there are builds people gravitate toward.
I've seen it to a degree in Eve, but not as much. Typically the first question someone is asked when they want to know what the best build is, is "What kind of play style do you want?" or "What do you want to focus on?". Based on their answer, they'll get a few different possible suggestions. I think the reason it works a bit better in Eve than in most MMOs (again, in my experience), is because even while you can train - theoretically - *everything* in the game, and have a bazillion skill points to toss around... You can only use a limited amount of those skill points at a time. When you're flying a frigate with a specific load-out for a specific task, it doesn't matter what other skills you've trained - you're only using one specific subset of them at that point for that ship with that load out. You have to get back to a station to swap out your build, or change ships. So.. there's a limitation to it. You can do everything... but not at the same time, swapping out "on the fly" (which I realize is an ironic figure of speech, given Eve's gameplay).
I've seen it in so-called theme-park MMOs, where people begin their "careers" with "What's the best class in the game?" or "What's the best build for 'X' class?". There can be 20 classes to choose from, and the one they're told might not even be one they would enjoy... but as long as it's "the best class" by current standards, that's the one they'll play. And that changes as the developers attempt to continually balance the game... "nerfing" this... "buffing" that. What's considered "the best" today, will be considered "lolgimped" tomorrow and you'll see a large shift toward the new "best class"... until the "balancing hammer" strikes again.
To a degree, very, very few people in MMOs, in my experience, are true "explorers" in terms of experimenting and testing out different builds, learning the nuances and such to see what a particular skill-set, or a particular class or character build-out will do. They let others do the "footwork", then simply look up the latest "how to play" guide online, and that becomes their template.... Then they proceed to tell anyone not following it that they're "gimped", even having no real understanding of the game mechanics them self. I've always found it ironic when "template of the month" players tell those who actually learn by playing and digging and experimenting to "learn how to play".
It's been a fun pastime of mine in MMOs that I do know very well (like FFXI) to do that when people start getting all on their high-horse about how I'm "playing my job wrong", or have it geared incorrectly. I ask them why... explain to me, in terms of my specific racial abilities, and the specifics of my current job, how I'm playing it wrong. What should I improve on?". It's funny how often they can't answer. Why? Because they have no idea how the game mechanics work... They only know what some guide on some website says to use, and I'm not using it, so I must be "playing wrong". While I find exposing the lemming-like mentality of people like that entertaining, I also find it sad how often I run into it.
So... does this "everyone's the same" behavior happen in DF? I'm absolutely certain it does, and I've seen the same discussions as well.. "make sure you do "A" and "B" and "C", get "X, Y and Z" to at least 75 , or you'll be gimped". People mention wanting to try a specific build; something that they - gasp - would personally enjoy playing - and they're told not to because it would suck. They're told to follow a specific build, use specific skills and specific gear... Yes, I have witnessed this, and no, I'm not bashing Darkfall. It's the same in every single MMO I've played.
I think this picture sums it up perfectly and keep it handy for exactly these topics (I've used it many times in FFXI discussions):
In case the text is too small to read for some, it says,
"When People Are Free To Do As They Please, They Usually Imitate Each Other"
I've found that to be dead on in every MMO I've played, for the majority of people playing them. People clamor and complain and beg for a game with "more choices"... but then gravitate to the same handful of "optimal builds" that, interestingly, seem to either resemble standard classes, or a "jack of all trades" build, because they want to be able to do everything.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The answer is a skill cap, or some form of skill degradation. That would be the " ez " solution. The other more complicated solution would be to add in other game mechanics that influence how people build their characters. AV has already done one this a bit by tweaking armor and mob resistances.
While for the most part I agree with class identities serving an important purpose I do have a small bone of contention with this.
I mean, try telling Gandalf that he can't use a sword. Or Elric. Or even Herald-Mage Vanyel.
I would be happy with a class system that restricted the mages ability with melee weapons, while still allowing some diversity and proficiency.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
The answer is a skill cap, or some form of skill degradation. That would be the " ez " solution. The other more complicated solution would be to add in other game mechanics that influence how people build their characters. AV has already done one this a bit by tweaking armor and mob resistances.
The one thing I liked about Eve was that I could train my skills to be a miner, a frigate pilot, or a battleship pilot, but just because I could fly that battleship, didn't mean I could nessacerily fly a frigate better. I liked how I could be many diffrent things, but only one at a time. I like how darkfall is starting to implement give and take specializations, because it doesn't force someone to have to retrain, but just ditch the specializations. I think it would be cool if they had different varibles on arnor and stuff, besides protection. Like maybe increased 1h-sword damage at the expense of fire magic or something. Or maybe not even have a penalty for somethings.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions