I'm getting the feeling that the MMORPG genre is slowly dying out, what I mean by this is, WoW is ruled by trollers and hardly anyone plays the lesser known MMO's like Lord of the Rings, Warhammer and Aion. I really don't know where the MMORPG genre is heading from here, is it going to continue in a strong pace with other games on the market that use the Counter-Strike format of multiplayer or is it going to flat out disappear one day because I'm getting the feeling most people prefer to head snipe people with with a team of random people all the time for 5-10 minutes rather than spend an hour or 2 in a dungeon for some massive boss.
If the MMORPG is going down the shitter then I must be wasting my time playing these games rather than hoping to find people I could call as friends.
You must've just joined us. I'm guessing you started with wow? Well let me clear some stuff up for you.
1. Wow has always had those trollers, there were just so many players that you rarely saw them.
2. Tons of people play the "lesser known MMO's" its not wow status but imo thats a good thing,
3. I can guarantee that MMO's aren't a dying genre it may be in a slump but thats how it goes ups and downs. Wow brought the biggest peak in the mmo genre and now since its on a fall, (and if any of you fanboys wanna argue it. Bring it i've been playing wow since beta.) It is bringing the genre down a lil bit.
oh and whats with the last part your wasting time?? are you having fun? thats kinda the point of playing a video game. And if its between that and finding friends go find a friend.
Excluding WoWs Population,,,
the number of people playing other MMORPGs havnt increased since the days of UO--->EQ ??? (Remember not including WoW)
the number of people playing other MMORPGs havnt increased since the days of UO--->EQ ??? (Remember not including WoW)
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
the number of people playing other MMORPGs havnt increased since the days of UO--->EQ ??? (Remember not including WoW)
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
Not at all. That's a perfectly poignant, and to the point post. Read the subject of the thread again. Altairzq is perfectly on topic.
MMORPGs, as a type of game, are doing fine - look at all the new ones coming out. In that context, they're doing fine.
As far as for those who play MMOs for the sense of community - which, at least for a time, was a core element of the genre (mostly pre-WoW) - then, yes, it's definitely dying... if not already dead.
Altairzq offers a different answer depending on the individual's perspective. It's not that hard to figure out, really.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
the number of people playing other MMORPGs havnt increased since the days of UO--->EQ ??? (Remember not including WoW)
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
the number of people playing other MMORPGs havnt increased since the days of UO--->EQ ??? (Remember not including WoW)
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
So how can you all say the genre is Dieing?
Don't lump me in with the doomsayer crowd, please.
I personally think that the genre is thriving.
People are just being melodramatic because their preferences have become niche, and the genre is evolving in a different direction than they would like.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
No its not dying. It is however in a stagnant loop of bad games and clones of on form or another. Also it is starting to slowly go to a single player game with some multiplayer vs a true MMO design. The indie companies are the only ones pushing any conventional designs at this point. We do have some titles coming down the pipe that will hopefully provide a true MMO title such as World of Darkness and FF. I cant see CCP going the casual gamer route when they have had much success with the EVE model and SE I dont think will shift to far left either. Yes getting past the never ending piles of crap is difficult but there is some really decent possibilities on the horizon.
I completely agree. There seems to be stagnation/clones so when you try a new game, even though it may be marketed as new and different, you get the feeling shortly after playing, I've been down this game path before.
If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
I've always wanted to point this out to people, but you sir, have done it for me.
Thank you.
Playing: World Of Warcraft Resting From: Nothing Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC Waiting For: SWTOR, APB Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
No its not dying. It is however in a stagnant loop of bad games and clones of on form or another. Also it is starting to slowly go to a single player game with some multiplayer vs a true MMO design. The indie companies are the only ones pushing any conventional designs at this point. We do have some titles coming down the pipe that will hopefully provide a true MMO title such as World of Darkness and FF. I cant see CCP going the casual gamer route when they have had much success with the EVE model and SE I dont think will shift to far left either. Yes getting past the never ending piles of crap is difficult but there is some really decent possibilities on the horizon.
I completely agree. There seems to be stagnation/clones so when you try a new game, even though it may be marketed as new and different, you get the feeling shortly after playing, I've been down this game path before.
off course you get that feeling, much like watching an action film, love story, listening to jazz or rock, why? They all follow a theme and have things in common.
If I play a new RTS is it a totally new refreshing experience? No.
when you are sleeping,it doesnt mean that you are dying. and theres plenty of nigthmares out there.
ICWUTUDIDTHAR
Playing: World Of Warcraft Resting From: Nothing Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC Waiting For: SWTOR, APB Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
The number of people playing MMOs has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying the genre, in terms of "creating something different" - as in, something original - is stagnating.
But, to illustrate my point... let's take just a handful, prior to WoW.
We had:
Asheron's Call - stood apart from other MMOs due to its unique lore, unique setting, had its own style, look/feel, gameplay mechanics, races, wide-open character development, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Anarchy Online - Stood apart from other MMOs as one of the earliest Sci-Fi MMOs, completely unique setting, introduced "instancing" via its mission kiosks, massive world, deep and complex character customization different from other MMOs at the time, had its own look/feel and style. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
FFXI - a MMO that, arguably, stands apart from most MMOs in almost every way conceivable; massive world, deep storyline, unique look and feel, main/support job system. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Ryzom - stands apart from other MMOs in having entirely unique lore, flora, fauna, setting... very involved skill system (stanzas/custom skills/spells), deep crafting system, living world, etc. etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Eve Online - Definitely its own creature in the MMO genre that stood apart from any of the other MMOs listed here in a number of ways. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Shadowbane - stood apart from other MMOs in having a very different character development system, wide-open PvP, its own look/feel, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
... shall I continue? There's plenty more. And, mind you, what your personal opinion is on whether or not any of those games were "good" is irrelevant to the point I'm making...
That point being, every one of those MMOs I've listed, and several more, all were their own unique experiences. You didn't go from AC1 to AO and feel like you were playing the same game in a different skin. You don't go from Ryzom to FFXI and feel like you're playing the same MMO in a different skin. You didn't play Shadowbane and feel like you were playing Eve in a different skin. Each had/has their own approach or twist on the genre. Each game's developer introduced their own style and "philosophy" to how the game could be played. Each was its own unique experience.
Prior to WoW blowing the genre wide-open, companies tried to create something new and different to offer that players couldn't find in competing titles. That bred more diversity and creativity in the game designs and kept ideas fresh and interesting, even if not particularly successful. Shadowbane, for example, had some fantastic ideas behind it, its character development is among the most complex I've seen in terms of options... It's poor execution, and an obnoxious and relentlessly belligerent community that killed SB.
Once WoW came along, all that creativity started going out the window. Now, you play any number of MMOs out now, and you can feel the direct influence of WoW on most any one of them (except for the ones derived from Lineage 1/2). Not saying that makes them all "bad games", but certainly, the degree of originality and willingness to create something new and different has slowed. Developers are "playing it safe" now by not going off too much in any given direction. And in that way, yes, MMORPGs, in my opinion, are stagnating.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
Who said I was bored? I'm playing my selection of MMOs and enjoying them enough. The genre, as a whole, I feel is stagnating as I'm not seeing as much creativity or originality out of MMOs post-WoW as I did prior.
Here's an idea: How about you respond to what I *do* say instead of what I don't. Deal?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
The number of people playing MMOs has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying the genre, in terms of "creating something different" - as in, something original - is stagnating.
But, to illustrate my point... let's take just a handful, prior to WoW.
We had:
Asheron's Call - stood apart from other MMOs due to its unique lore, unique setting, had its own style, look/feel, gameplay mechanics, races, wide-open character development, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Anarchy Online - Stood apart from other MMOs as one of the earliest Sci-Fi MMOs, completely unique setting, introduced "instancing" via its mission kiosks, massive world, deep and complex character customization different from other MMOs at the time, had its own look/feel and style. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
FFXI - a MMO that, arguably, stands apart from most MMOs in almost every way conceivable; massive world, deep storyline, unique look and feel, main/support job system. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Ryzom - stands apart from other MMOs in having entirely unique lore, flora, fauna, setting... very involved skill system (stanzas/custom skills/spells), deep crafting system, living world, etc. etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Eve Online - Definitely its own creature in the MMO genre that stood apart from any of the other MMOs listed here in a number of ways. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Shadowbane - stood apart from other MMOs in having a very different character development system, wide-open PvP, its own look/feel, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
... shall I continue? There's plenty more. And, mind you, what your personal opinion is on whether or not any of those games were "good" is irrelevant to the point I'm making...
That point being, every one of those MMOs I've listed, and several more, all were their own unique experiences. You didn't go from AC1 to AO and feel like you were playing the same game in a different skin. You don't go from Ryzom to FFXI and feel like you're playing the same MMO in a different skin. You didn't play Shadowbane and feel like you were playing Eve in a different skin. Each had/has their own approach or twist on the genre. Each game's developer introduced their own style and "philosophy" to how the game could be played. Each was its own unique experience.
Prior to WoW blowing the genre wide-open, companies tried to create something new and different to offer that players couldn't find in competing titles. That bred more diversity and creativity in the game designs and kept ideas fresh and interesting, even if not particularly successful. Shadowbane, for example, had some fantastic ideas behind it, its character development is among the most complex I've seen in terms of options... It's poor execution, and an obnoxious and relentlessly belligerent community that killed SB.
Once WoW came along, all that creativity started going out the window. Now, you play any number of MMOs out now, and you can feel the direct influence of WoW on most any one of them (except for the ones derived from Lineage 1/2). Not saying that makes them all "bad games", but certainly, the degree of originality and willingness to create something new and different has slowed. Developers are "playing it safe" now by not going off too much in any given direction. And in that way, yes, MMORPGs, in my opinion, are stagnating.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
Who said I was bored? I'm playing my selection of MMOs and enjoying them enough. The genre, as a whole, I feel is stagnating as I'm not seeing as much creativity or originality out of MMOs post-WoW as I did prior.
Here's an idea: How about you respond to what I *do* say instead of what I don't. Deal?
The genre died the day the games stopped to be fun.
I'll counter this argument with: we are in the infancy of MMOs. There is much, much more to come. I think MMOs will follow the same path the movie industry did from 1900 to 2010.
If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
WoW to Darkfall??
WoW to Mortal Online??
Both good examples of two developers who are still doing something different; and it's great we still have those companies around.
By and large, though, the genre has been stuck on emulating two key MMOs for several years now: WoW for Western style MMOs, and Lineage 2 for the Eastern style. For every example of a developer who's currently doing something different, there are many more who aren't. Thus, why I feel the genre is stagnating.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I just believe the old style wow clone is overdone they have no new surprises and twitch style MMO's will be the way forward. I am bored of the same old solo quests or group quests that take ages to find someone on the same section to do with. How many MMO's out there have fully customizable equipment not just the typical Staff +2 with a glow on it?
I am hoping these new sandbox style MMO's turn the genre around and make these games more community driven. Questing in general needs to change running round trying to find an NPC isn't fun to be told by that NPC go to another NPC for a reward. Instead of these pointless quests they should look at new ways, ways that impact guild/community growth. For example hand in non trade material item to guild box for a reward that allows part of creating a building that only a low level can loot. Things like this would put an end to "Sorry you need to be level 30 to join our guild" and make community growth efforts more worthwhile.
The old style themepark MMO is dying but some companies are becoming more innovative and trying to break away from the WOW clone era.
There is one game not listed on MMORPG in development that is definitely different maybe its not listed because its more action/shooter than the typical MMO? It''s going to be a F2P and is a good example of an MMO being evolved into different play style than the typical yet still covers different classes, stats, PVP and PVE its called Valkyrie Sky.
The genre, as a whole, I feel is stagnating as I'm not seeing as much creativity or originality out of MMOs post-WoW as I did prior.
I doubt there's any MMO player who doesn't want creativity, originality and innovation in the MMO genre. But there's gotta be a realistic viewpoint on our expectations.
I don't want to belittle the achievements of the early MMOs, but it wasn't exactly difficult for them to be innovative, was it? .. they were the pioneers of the genre. They had the advantage of being completely free of expectation and of preconception.
Now it's 10+ years later, and a standard has been set. You'll not see massive innovation from the AAA developers purely on the basis that their MMO can't be permitted to fail. There's just too much money involved for them to be willing to take a complete risk, attempt to redefine the genre and possibly fail. A high profile, high budget failure could conceivably tank their whole company.
Innovation in the AAAs will be gradual, fed mainly by successful mechanics in indie games. "Let's see if it works" has been replaced by "It worked in <insert game> so we'll incorporate it in ours".
We can see that in modern WoW, there has been considerable innovation in the past 5 years.
Battlegrounds, Arenas, Achievements, Cross-Server, Phasing, Vehicular Combat, Open PvP Zones. Blizzard didn't invent 'em, of course .. they absorbed them from other games. Players have a ton more choices, variety and freedom (especially at end-game) than they used to.
That can only be a good thing.
I hope that the next evolution of the genre will be to retain all of that variety while incorporating it into a responsive and "living" world, (i.e. a Sandbox) with a much better underlying "story".
Optimistic, perhaps .. but ya gotta live the dream.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
after WoW became so successful, MMOs were almost like a modern day gold rush...
It seemed like everyone wanted in on the action, both devs and players alike. All these crap games started coming out, i mean i had never seen so many MMOs on the market, but most were crap...i mean it's still happening that way.
Then you had all these non-MMO type gamers jumping in and playing, pretty much destroying the community.
If another big hit doesn't come soon, then the genre will slip...but I think it will be for the better, because it wont die...but maybe these trolls and gankers and crappy devs will drift away and the MMO will kinda return to how it was...
The thing is...these are Massively Multiplayer games...they were built around communities and grouping and now so many devs are going with the more "solo friendly" MMO....that defeats the purpose of being an MMO...
Dont cater to the Soloist
PLAYING: NOTHING!!! PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
A few months ago, i thought MMOs were dying, though for me personally, not as a whole.
Folks say nothing will capture the excitement of your first MMO, well technically, NWN on AOL was first, but I consider UO my first "true love". In '97 it was so raw, exciting, on the edge of your seat gameplay. It was, and what i consider a persistant "world"..
Anyhow, a few months ago, I began to play Darkfall, and it has changed my mind on the genre'. Its great that a gaming company will take a chance, and try and break this mold that MMOs feel the need to use. In my opinion, its even better that its an indie company.
Is the game perfect, nope, but what game is?
I think that as developers try and take chances with games like Darkfall and EvE, and find some success, and games like WAR /AOC et al. don't meet expectations, you'll get a bit more variety..
The genre, as a whole, I feel is stagnating as I'm not seeing as much creativity or originality out of MMOs post-WoW as I did prior.
I doubt there's any MMO player who doesn't want creativity, originality and innovation in the MMO genre. But there's gotta be a realistic viewpoint on our expectations.
I don't want to belittle the achievements of the early MMOs, but it wasn't exactly difficult for them to be innovative, was it? .. they were the pioneers of the genre. They had the advantage of being completely free of expectation and of preconception.
Now it's 10+ years later, and a standard has been set. You'll not see massive innovation from the AAA developers purely on the basis that their MMO can't be permitted to fail. There's just too much money involved for them to be willing to take a complete risk, attempt to redefine the genre and possibly fail. A high profile, high budget failure could conceivably tank their whole company.
Innovation in the AAAs will be gradual, fed mainly by successful mechanics in indie games. "Let's see if it works" has been replaced by "It worked in <insert game> so we'll incorporate it in ours".
We can see that in modern WoW, there has been considerable innovation in the past 5 years.
Battlegrounds, Arenas, Achievements, Cross-Server, Phasing, Vehicular Combat, Open PvP Zones. Blizzard didn't invent 'em, of course .. they absorbed them from other games. Players have a ton more choices, variety and freedom (especially at end-game) than they used to.
That can only be a good thing.
I hope that the next evolution of the genre will be to retain all of that variety while incorporating it into a responsive and "living" world, (i.e. a Sandbox) with a much better underlying "story".
Optimistic, perhaps .. but ya gotta live the dream.
This this & this.............
Yeah mike, all the games you listed were good, at their time. As shown above we have, if anything, seen more innovation and creativity since wow than before. Just because you have unrealistic expectations in regards to the speed of the evolution of the genre does not make it stagnant.
I'm getting the feeling that the MMORPG genre is slowly dying out, what I mean by this is, WoW is ruled by trollers and hardly anyone plays the lesser known MMO's like Lord of the Rings, Warhammer and Aion. I really don't know where the MMORPG genre is heading from here, is it going to continue in a strong pace with other games on the market that use the Counter-Strike format of multiplayer or is it going to flat out disappear one day because I'm getting the feeling most people prefer to head snipe people with with a team of random people all the time for 5-10 minutes rather than spend an hour or 2 in a dungeon for some massive boss.
If the MMORPG is going down the shitter then I must be wasting my time playing these games rather than hoping to find people I could call as friends.
Seems to be the opposite to me. The amount of mmorpgs out now a days is just silly. Granted not all of them are doing very well but this isn't surprising considering how many there are and least in my opinion the level of quality some companies are putting into these products is severely lacking now a days.
I will say the community as a whole has gone to shit, but that's just my opinion. A lot of people seem to just look out for themselves any more and aren't into helping others in the least unless they're "forced". Which is always fun when you get those types if you're in a pug or god forbid they're in your guild, because even when they are grouped to complete something they usually don't look out for other group members and tend to be loot whores with drops.
About the only decent community I've seen in any of the next gen mmorpgs is LotR. Even that game has it's cliques to a degree but compared to most others games it's very friendly least on the servers I've played on.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Comments
You must've just joined us. I'm guessing you started with wow? Well let me clear some stuff up for you.
1. Wow has always had those trollers, there were just so many players that you rarely saw them.
2. Tons of people play the "lesser known MMO's" its not wow status but imo thats a good thing,
3. I can guarantee that MMO's aren't a dying genre it may be in a slump but thats how it goes ups and downs. Wow brought the biggest peak in the mmo genre and now since its on a fall, (and if any of you fanboys wanna argue it. Bring it i've been playing wow since beta.) It is bringing the genre down a lil bit.
oh and whats with the last part your wasting time?? are you having fun? thats kinda the point of playing a video game. And if its between that and finding friends go find a friend.
Excluding WoWs Population,,,
the number of people playing other MMORPGs havnt increased since the days of UO--->EQ ??? (Remember not including WoW)
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
agree the past has passed
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
Not at all. That's a perfectly poignant, and to the point post. Read the subject of the thread again. Altairzq is perfectly on topic.
MMORPGs, as a type of game, are doing fine - look at all the new ones coming out. In that context, they're doing fine.
As far as for those who play MMOs for the sense of community - which, at least for a time, was a core element of the genre (mostly pre-WoW) - then, yes, it's definitely dying... if not already dead.
Altairzq offers a different answer depending on the individual's perspective. It's not that hard to figure out, really.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
So how can you all say the genre is Dieing?
Of course it's increased.
At peak, UO had 250k subs. EQ topped out at a bit over 400k.
Even being generous and discounting crossovers/mutiple accounts, that's only 650k people, and is waaaay less than are currently playing MMOs. Even when you take WoW out of the equation.
Not that you should take WoW out of the equation, though. I started playing back in the UO days and I'm a WoW player now. Not all of us look back on "the old days" with nostalgia.
So how can you all say the genre is Dieing?
Don't lump me in with the doomsayer crowd, please.
I personally think that the genre is thriving.
People are just being melodramatic because their preferences have become niche, and the genre is evolving in a different direction than they would like.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I completely agree. There seems to be stagnation/clones so when you try a new game, even though it may be marketed as new and different, you get the feeling shortly after playing, I've been down this game path before.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
I've always wanted to point this out to people, but you sir, have done it for me.
Thank you.
Playing: World Of Warcraft
Resting From: Nothing
Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC
Waiting For: SWTOR, APB
Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
I completely agree. There seems to be stagnation/clones so when you try a new game, even though it may be marketed as new and different, you get the feeling shortly after playing, I've been down this game path before.
off course you get that feeling, much like watching an action film, love story, listening to jazz or rock, why? They all follow a theme and have things in common.
If I play a new RTS is it a totally new refreshing experience? No.
The genre died the day the games stopped to be fun.
when you are sleeping,it doesnt mean that you are dying.
and theres plenty of nigthmares out there.
Generation P
ICWUTUDIDTHAR
Playing: World Of Warcraft
Resting From: Nothing
Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC
Waiting For: SWTOR, APB
Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
The number of people playing MMOs has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying the genre, in terms of "creating something different" - as in, something original - is stagnating.
But, to illustrate my point... let's take just a handful, prior to WoW.
We had:
Asheron's Call - stood apart from other MMOs due to its unique lore, unique setting, had its own style, look/feel, gameplay mechanics, races, wide-open character development, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Anarchy Online - Stood apart from other MMOs as one of the earliest Sci-Fi MMOs, completely unique setting, introduced "instancing" via its mission kiosks, massive world, deep and complex character customization different from other MMOs at the time, had its own look/feel and style. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
FFXI - a MMO that, arguably, stands apart from most MMOs in almost every way conceivable; massive world, deep storyline, unique look and feel, main/support job system. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Ryzom - stands apart from other MMOs in having entirely unique lore, flora, fauna, setting... very involved skill system (stanzas/custom skills/spells), deep crafting system, living world, etc. etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Eve Online - Definitely its own creature in the MMO genre that stood apart from any of the other MMOs listed here in a number of ways. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Shadowbane - stood apart from other MMOs in having a very different character development system, wide-open PvP, its own look/feel, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
... shall I continue? There's plenty more. And, mind you, what your personal opinion is on whether or not any of those games were "good" is irrelevant to the point I'm making...
That point being, every one of those MMOs I've listed, and several more, all were their own unique experiences. You didn't go from AC1 to AO and feel like you were playing the same game in a different skin. You don't go from Ryzom to FFXI and feel like you're playing the same MMO in a different skin. You didn't play Shadowbane and feel like you were playing Eve in a different skin. Each had/has their own approach or twist on the genre. Each game's developer introduced their own style and "philosophy" to how the game could be played. Each was its own unique experience.
Prior to WoW blowing the genre wide-open, companies tried to create something new and different to offer that players couldn't find in competing titles. That bred more diversity and creativity in the game designs and kept ideas fresh and interesting, even if not particularly successful. Shadowbane, for example, had some fantastic ideas behind it, its character development is among the most complex I've seen in terms of options... It's poor execution, and an obnoxious and relentlessly belligerent community that killed SB.
Once WoW came along, all that creativity started going out the window. Now, you play any number of MMOs out now, and you can feel the direct influence of WoW on most any one of them (except for the ones derived from Lineage 1/2). Not saying that makes them all "bad games", but certainly, the degree of originality and willingness to create something new and different has slowed. Developers are "playing it safe" now by not going off too much in any given direction. And in that way, yes, MMORPGs, in my opinion, are stagnating.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
Who said I was bored? I'm playing my selection of MMOs and enjoying them enough. The genre, as a whole, I feel is stagnating as I'm not seeing as much creativity or originality out of MMOs post-WoW as I did prior.
Here's an idea: How about you respond to what I *do* say instead of what I don't. Deal?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
So you want something different and old school? Stagnating? Genre mate, how many innovations can there be, given realistic budgets, technology and target audience? You can look at any genre and proclaim it's stagnating because they all follow a certain theme, surely? There are more people playing MMORPGS now than at any point in history, the number of games listed here show that.
The number of people playing MMOs has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying the genre, in terms of "creating something different" - as in, something original - is stagnating.
But, to illustrate my point... let's take just a handful, prior to WoW.
We had:
Asheron's Call - stood apart from other MMOs due to its unique lore, unique setting, had its own style, look/feel, gameplay mechanics, races, wide-open character development, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Anarchy Online - Stood apart from other MMOs as one of the earliest Sci-Fi MMOs, completely unique setting, introduced "instancing" via its mission kiosks, massive world, deep and complex character customization different from other MMOs at the time, had its own look/feel and style. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
FFXI - a MMO that, arguably, stands apart from most MMOs in almost every way conceivable; massive world, deep storyline, unique look and feel, main/support job system. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Ryzom - stands apart from other MMOs in having entirely unique lore, flora, fauna, setting... very involved skill system (stanzas/custom skills/spells), deep crafting system, living world, etc. etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Eve Online - Definitely its own creature in the MMO genre that stood apart from any of the other MMOs listed here in a number of ways. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
Shadowbane - stood apart from other MMOs in having a very different character development system, wide-open PvP, its own look/feel, etc. Didn't play like any other MMO at the time.
... shall I continue? There's plenty more. And, mind you, what your personal opinion is on whether or not any of those games were "good" is irrelevant to the point I'm making...
That point being, every one of those MMOs I've listed, and several more, all were their own unique experiences. You didn't go from AC1 to AO and feel like you were playing the same game in a different skin. You don't go from Ryzom to FFXI and feel like you're playing the same MMO in a different skin. You didn't play Shadowbane and feel like you were playing Eve in a different skin. Each had/has their own approach or twist on the genre. Each game's developer introduced their own style and "philosophy" to how the game could be played. Each was its own unique experience.
Prior to WoW blowing the genre wide-open, companies tried to create something new and different to offer that players couldn't find in competing titles. That bred more diversity and creativity in the game designs and kept ideas fresh and interesting, even if not particularly successful. Shadowbane, for example, had some fantastic ideas behind it, its character development is among the most complex I've seen in terms of options... It's poor execution, and an obnoxious and relentlessly belligerent community that killed SB.
Once WoW came along, all that creativity started going out the window. Now, you play any number of MMOs out now, and you can feel the direct influence of WoW on most any one of them (except for the ones derived from Lineage 1/2). Not saying that makes them all "bad games", but certainly, the degree of originality and willingness to create something new and different has slowed. Developers are "playing it safe" now by not going off too much in any given direction. And in that way, yes, MMORPGs, in my opinion, are stagnating.
Again, just because you are bored of the genre for now doesn't mean that it is failing to deliver, stagnant or dying. As for competing with wow? Sure they do, why do people forget that games are part of an industry that intends to make money.
Who said I was bored? I'm playing my selection of MMOs and enjoying them enough. The genre, as a whole, I feel is stagnating as I'm not seeing as much creativity or originality out of MMOs post-WoW as I did prior.
Here's an idea: How about you respond to what I *do* say instead of what I don't. Deal?
WoW to Darkfall??
WoW to Mortal Online??
I'll counter this argument with: we are in the infancy of MMOs. There is much, much more to come. I think MMOs will follow the same path the movie industry did from 1900 to 2010.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
uhmm pointless post. Unless it was directed at a game if not, your on a tangent in the middle of nowhere.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't say they're "dying", so much as stagnating. With the exception of a few companies here and there are who are looking to create something different and/or more "old-school", most MMO developers are falling all over themselves trying to compete in WoW's market... namely the "casual gamer" crowd. That's where the big money is, so that's what they're all clamoring for, the result being fewer and fewer interesting titles, and more and more derivatives.
WoW to Darkfall??
WoW to Mortal Online??
Both good examples of two developers who are still doing something different; and it's great we still have those companies around.
By and large, though, the genre has been stuck on emulating two key MMOs for several years now: WoW for Western style MMOs, and Lineage 2 for the Eastern style. For every example of a developer who's currently doing something different, there are many more who aren't. Thus, why I feel the genre is stagnating.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I just believe the old style wow clone is overdone they have no new surprises and twitch style MMO's will be the way forward. I am bored of the same old solo quests or group quests that take ages to find someone on the same section to do with. How many MMO's out there have fully customizable equipment not just the typical Staff +2 with a glow on it?
I am hoping these new sandbox style MMO's turn the genre around and make these games more community driven. Questing in general needs to change running round trying to find an NPC isn't fun to be told by that NPC go to another NPC for a reward. Instead of these pointless quests they should look at new ways, ways that impact guild/community growth. For example hand in non trade material item to guild box for a reward that allows part of creating a building that only a low level can loot. Things like this would put an end to "Sorry you need to be level 30 to join our guild" and make community growth efforts more worthwhile.
The old style themepark MMO is dying but some companies are becoming more innovative and trying to break away from the WOW clone era.
There is one game not listed on MMORPG in development that is definitely different maybe its not listed because its more action/shooter than the typical MMO? It''s going to be a F2P and is a good example of an MMO being evolved into different play style than the typical yet still covers different classes, stats, PVP and PVE its called Valkyrie Sky.
I doubt there's any MMO player who doesn't want creativity, originality and innovation in the MMO genre. But there's gotta be a realistic viewpoint on our expectations.
I don't want to belittle the achievements of the early MMOs, but it wasn't exactly difficult for them to be innovative, was it? .. they were the pioneers of the genre. They had the advantage of being completely free of expectation and of preconception.
Now it's 10+ years later, and a standard has been set. You'll not see massive innovation from the AAA developers purely on the basis that their MMO can't be permitted to fail. There's just too much money involved for them to be willing to take a complete risk, attempt to redefine the genre and possibly fail. A high profile, high budget failure could conceivably tank their whole company.
Innovation in the AAAs will be gradual, fed mainly by successful mechanics in indie games. "Let's see if it works" has been replaced by "It worked in <insert game> so we'll incorporate it in ours".
We can see that in modern WoW, there has been considerable innovation in the past 5 years.
Battlegrounds, Arenas, Achievements, Cross-Server, Phasing, Vehicular Combat, Open PvP Zones. Blizzard didn't invent 'em, of course .. they absorbed them from other games. Players have a ton more choices, variety and freedom (especially at end-game) than they used to.
That can only be a good thing.
I hope that the next evolution of the genre will be to retain all of that variety while incorporating it into a responsive and "living" world, (i.e. a Sandbox) with a much better underlying "story".
Optimistic, perhaps .. but ya gotta live the dream.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It's not dying...
after WoW became so successful, MMOs were almost like a modern day gold rush...
It seemed like everyone wanted in on the action, both devs and players alike. All these crap games started coming out, i mean i had never seen so many MMOs on the market, but most were crap...i mean it's still happening that way.
Then you had all these non-MMO type gamers jumping in and playing, pretty much destroying the community.
If another big hit doesn't come soon, then the genre will slip...but I think it will be for the better, because it wont die...but maybe these trolls and gankers and crappy devs will drift away and the MMO will kinda return to how it was...
The thing is...these are Massively Multiplayer games...they were built around communities and grouping and now so many devs are going with the more "solo friendly" MMO....that defeats the purpose of being an MMO...
Dont cater to the Soloist
PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
WAITING FOR: Dust 514
A few months ago, i thought MMOs were dying, though for me personally, not as a whole.
Folks say nothing will capture the excitement of your first MMO, well technically, NWN on AOL was first, but I consider UO my first "true love". In '97 it was so raw, exciting, on the edge of your seat gameplay. It was, and what i consider a persistant "world"..
Anyhow, a few months ago, I began to play Darkfall, and it has changed my mind on the genre'. Its great that a gaming company will take a chance, and try and break this mold that MMOs feel the need to use. In my opinion, its even better that its an indie company.
Is the game perfect, nope, but what game is?
I think that as developers try and take chances with games like Darkfall and EvE, and find some success, and games like WAR /AOC et al. don't meet expectations, you'll get a bit more variety..
At least I hope so..
I doubt there's any MMO player who doesn't want creativity, originality and innovation in the MMO genre. But there's gotta be a realistic viewpoint on our expectations.
I don't want to belittle the achievements of the early MMOs, but it wasn't exactly difficult for them to be innovative, was it? .. they were the pioneers of the genre. They had the advantage of being completely free of expectation and of preconception.
Now it's 10+ years later, and a standard has been set. You'll not see massive innovation from the AAA developers purely on the basis that their MMO can't be permitted to fail. There's just too much money involved for them to be willing to take a complete risk, attempt to redefine the genre and possibly fail. A high profile, high budget failure could conceivably tank their whole company.
Innovation in the AAAs will be gradual, fed mainly by successful mechanics in indie games. "Let's see if it works" has been replaced by "It worked in <insert game> so we'll incorporate it in ours".
We can see that in modern WoW, there has been considerable innovation in the past 5 years.
Battlegrounds, Arenas, Achievements, Cross-Server, Phasing, Vehicular Combat, Open PvP Zones. Blizzard didn't invent 'em, of course .. they absorbed them from other games. Players have a ton more choices, variety and freedom (especially at end-game) than they used to.
That can only be a good thing.
I hope that the next evolution of the genre will be to retain all of that variety while incorporating it into a responsive and "living" world, (i.e. a Sandbox) with a much better underlying "story".
Optimistic, perhaps .. but ya gotta live the dream.
This this & this.............
Yeah mike, all the games you listed were good, at their time. As shown above we have, if anything, seen more innovation and creativity since wow than before. Just because you have unrealistic expectations in regards to the speed of the evolution of the genre does not make it stagnant.
Seems to be the opposite to me. The amount of mmorpgs out now a days is just silly. Granted not all of them are doing very well but this isn't surprising considering how many there are and least in my opinion the level of quality some companies are putting into these products is severely lacking now a days.
I will say the community as a whole has gone to shit, but that's just my opinion. A lot of people seem to just look out for themselves any more and aren't into helping others in the least unless they're "forced". Which is always fun when you get those types if you're in a pug or god forbid they're in your guild, because even when they are grouped to complete something they usually don't look out for other group members and tend to be loot whores with drops.
About the only decent community I've seen in any of the next gen mmorpgs is LotR. Even that game has it's cliques to a degree but compared to most others games it's very friendly least on the servers I've played on.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
No it is not if your looking for a a game that proves it play fallen earth if u liked everqueat old pvp servers or uo or pre ngu galaxies.
So, a minor indie game with serious issues, or three ancient games. That's your proof MMORPGs aren't dying?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2