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Wow is easy for those who want casual, and hard for those who want challange.

24

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  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Gear is the only way to advance once you hit max level in WoW. If you don't get better gear (includes gems/enchants), you don't advance your character past where they are at max level. I don't know what version of WoW the people who are denying this are playing... or what they're smoking.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980
    Originally posted by uquipu

    Originally posted by Katilla

    Originally posted by Carl132p

    Originally posted by Kyleran


    True enough, but nothing but a pointless gear grinder for both groups no matter how you play it.
     

     

    perhaps pointless isn't the word here. It's not only NOT pointless (the point being to have a stronger character) but were also discussing video games. Nothing you do in EVE or I do in WoW has any real value beyond both of us enjoying our games.

     

    QFT but i am tired of seeing games put so much emphasis on the gear that you have.

     

    I can't think of a single MMO that's not a gear race from EvE to WoW, to WAR, to AoC, it's all about the gear.  Or in Eves case, ships. 

    There's this funny video floating around where the devs are talking about this huge new ship, the titan.  People are complaning to the devs because it's not a good value.  One dev says, look guys, it's a big giant floating penis, thats all it is.  An epeen.

     

     

    The issue is not that gear is used as an advancement mechanic that is the problem. It's that it's the only advancement mechanic once you hit 80.

    This might change once they add the "path of the titans" seemingly AA system in the next expansion, but that remains to be seen.

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578
    Originally posted by Ceridith


    Gear is the only way to advance once you hit max level in WoW. If you don't get better gear (includes gems/enchants), you don't advance your character past where they are at max level. I don't know what version of WoW the people who are denying this are playing... or what they're smoking.



     

    This

    It is the carrot that keeps people playing WoW. I do agree with the OP about the varying levels of difficulty though. The challenge is there for people who want it.

  • Ikrit91Ikrit91 Member Posts: 10
    Originally posted by Zorndorf

    Originally posted by Kyleran


    True enough, but nothing but a pointless gear grinder for both groups no matter how you play it.
     



     

    Nope as always, dead wrong again.

    You better your character stats, gear is one of the many ways to better your character and then you have achievements, talents settings, glyphs, enchantments, professions and obvious product enhancements, money makers , titles and prestigious mounts.

    Just like you want to "better" your fixed seat belt spaceship.

    But far better and far more varied gameplay in WOW without boring drills. In fact EVE is so boring they made OFF line advancement in the game without legs and landscapes.

     OP: Of course: look at those who did the ultimate achievements: a handful of guilds out of millions of players.

     

    you can't compare eve and wow, they are two completely different styles.

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by pojung

    Originally posted by RealmLords


    Where WoW lost me is the 'middle of the road' player gets lumped in with the easy-mode people.

    Aside from the fact that 'easy' and 'hard' is done using the exact same content, and that by default unless you are absolutely surrounded by bored, overgeared individuals, hard modes aren't entertained because it's the ... same exact content, but harder. So if I want to 'go harder', I'm still limited by my weakest link. And because hard modes are often mindless in nature, and gear is reset every damn patch, people (even the most endgame guilds) will resort to just doing normal because it really is pointless.

    Group dynamics allow for difficulty increases that solo mechanics will never be able to provide. By increasing a group's size (from a group to a small raid to a large raid...), you could appropriately scale content with keeping the incentive present.

     

    Now, however, all classes and their buffs are homogenized. And the only incentive anywhere in the game is gear, gear, gear- or perhaps your upteenth mount which doesn't do anything your first mount doesn't do. WoW isn't 'something for everyone' so much as it has become 'equal rations for everyone'. Where's the incentive for capitalism inside of a game that is communist regulated?



     

    Uh, wtf?   It's a multiplayer game, so yeah veterans are gonna get lumped in with newbies.  The split up just fine on their own so I'm not sure how anyone can have a problem with that -- unless they're looking for a singleplayer game?

    As for "exact same content", that's a matter of WOW being a game for everyone.  If you have the money to make 4 dungeons, it makes more sense to offer difficulty levels than to offer 2 easy dungeons and 2 hard dungeons (which basically cuts the amount of dungeons you can (or want to) run in half, regardless of your skill level.)

    Every game (MMO or not) does it this way because it's efficient content development.  You make one set of content then spend a lot less time providing different difficulty levels.  Doing things the other way (having totally unique content for each difficulty level) would be asinine.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by Ikrit91

    Originally posted by Zorndorf

    Originally posted by Kyleran


    True enough, but nothing but a pointless gear grinder for both groups no matter how you play it.
     

    Nope as always, dead wrong again.

    You better your character stats, gear is one of the many ways to better your character and then you have achievements, talents settings, glyphs, enchantments, professions and obvious product enhancements, money makers , titles and prestigious mounts.

    Just like you want to "better" your fixed seat belt spaceship.

    But far better and far more varied gameplay in WOW without boring drills. In fact EVE is so boring they made OFF line advancement in the game without legs and landscapes.

     OP: Of course: look at those who did the ultimate achievements: a handful of guilds out of millions of players.

     

    you can't compare eve and wow, they are two completely different styles.

     

    Actually on the subject of general character / avatar advancement elements, its perfectly acceptable to compare the games. 

    Eve has a real-time skill advancement skill trees (that don't require much player participation in order to advance other than to click on the next skill to begin leveling), with ships and replacement parts (both of which is "gear" in the traditional MMO sense) that can contribute to the avatars overall potency. 

    Wow has a skill trees, the potency of which is dependant on the characters levels (which ARE based on player participation i.e.  leveling up) in order to advance.  And just like Eve, it too has gear which contributes to the overall potency of the avatar.

    Now, if memory serves me correctly , both Eve and WoW both have short term personal and group buffs.  WoW also has enchantments and glyphs too.

    Can a player with less gear and less avatar advancement in BOTH games take down another with better gear and more advancement?  Yes. 

    Does skill contribute to the overall outcome?  Yes. 

    Therefore, at a basic level, is the dependancy on items similar between the two games?  Yes.

  • VengerVenger Member UncommonPosts: 1,309

    Agreed and terrible for those of us that would prefer character development over speed or raid gear grinding.

  • uquipuuquipu Member Posts: 1,516
    Originally posted by Tarka 


    Eve has a real-time skill advancement skill trees (that don't require player participation in order to advance), with ships (gear) that can contribute to the avatars overall potency. 
    Wow has a skill trees, the potency of which is dependant on the characters levels which in turn ARE based on player participation (leveling up) in order to advance.  And just like Eve, it too has gear which contributes to the overall potency of the avatar.
    Now, if memory serves me correct, both Eve and WoW both have personal and group buffs.  WoW also has enchantments and glyphs too.
    Can a player with less gear and less avatar advancement in BOTH games take down another with better gear and more advancement?  Yes.  Does skill contribute to the overall outcome?  Yes. 

     

    The difference between how characters are developed in WoW and Eve seems almost trivial to me. 

     

    Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  • morbiusvmorbiusv Member Posts: 86

    wow is not hard at all lol. You sir in thinking wow is difficult have shown your are among the mass amount of retards that play this horrid game. Also pvp has not been good in that game since before patch 1.10 now it's just easy graba dk pally and you hit the top spot no prob it's not even hard.

  • pojungpojung Member Posts: 810
    Originally posted by Axehilt


    Uh, wtf?   It's a multiplayer game, so yeah veterans are gonna get lumped in with newbies.  The split up just fine on their own so I'm not sure how anyone can have a problem with that -- unless they're looking for a singleplayer game?
    As for "exact same content", that's a matter of WOW being a game for everyone.  If you have the money to make 4 dungeons, it makes more sense to offer difficulty levels than to offer 2 easy dungeons and 2 hard dungeons (which basically cuts the amount of dungeons you can (or want to) run in half, regardless of your skill level.)
    Every game (MMO or not) does it this way because it's efficient content development.  You make one set of content then spend a lot less time providing different difficulty levels.  Doing things the other way (having totally unique content for each difficulty level) would be asinine.



     

    The clumping. If I'm middle of the road, I am not the asset that the hardcore need. I now fall into the next highest caste, which also happens to be the only other caste in the game: normal modes. I get screwed. I have let's say, the skill, the twitch, needed for hard modes, but not enough time invested to have any of the gear on par. I'm not welcome. I get to play around in the kiddie pool instead.

    Likewise, because gear is the only benefit to doing hardmodes, and gear gets reset so quick, what other point is there to doing the hardmode? What makes it worth the frustration? You need a *VIABLE* outcome. It's not gear due to the resets, and it's not content either, because, well, it's the same damn encounter.

    'Something for everyone' is something tailored to one's tastes and means. In present-day WoW, the two better be one and the same, with the means portion defined by Blizzard themselves, or you're SOL! You hit the nail on the head: economics. It takes less effort to produce 4x the same content then to actually provide a meaningful and diverse gaming experience. That's it. That's *all* it is.

     

    Let's compare WoW with itself- it's the only fair comparison. Let's go back to classic. When devs actually cared about their game.

    I had the desire to raid, but not the means? Hello 20mans. Something to *call my own*. It had variables involved, it was tailored to suit both my tastes and my means. Because my means (of time) are constant and I am not free to bash my head against a wall in 40mans for 20hrs a week, but my tastes become more involving, I also happen to have optional bosses. I have bosses that can be completed in different ways. I even have a boss that is more challenging than most 40man bosses (hello Hakkar) even in a 'weakened' state (after having downed all the 'priests' or w/e).

    Let's go to BC. I had the desire to raid, but not the means? Hell 10mans. Instance categories to call my own, unique. The bosses yielding rewards that were BiS in many cases even (just like in classic's 'mini-raids')! The content was different, so there was interest in doing it for the experience alone. As soon as I thirsted for more, I could try for a timed event. Hello! Layered meta-concepts inside of the same instance! LAYERED! This was genius! This also allowed, and welcomed a challenge for hardcores to 'slum'. 'You think you're so bad eh? Well farm this instance properly for a bear'. I can rattle off shotgun style the amount of B-listers that managed to tackle this 10man content faster and with less frustration than their A-lister counterparts.

    Presentday WoW... all the same content. No incentive there. Gear is entirely caste-based on the type of dungeon you're doing. No ability to exceed via my own means, my own tastes.

    What's special about eating my piece of bread when everyone is issued the same ration based on their hunger? I want some veggies (taste) but I'm limited by the means (design philosophy) of Blizzard. It's not something for everyone. It's communism. There's no benefit to excelling, wether external or internal.

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448

    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

  • LexiscatLexiscat Member Posts: 204
    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.

     

    Man, I can't remember the last time I did something as hard as Freya Hardmode, or Mimiron Hardmode.  Trial of the Grand Crusader with its Northrend beasts that don't wait for you to finish, or Valk Twins with orbs that hit you and those around you for 10k.

    Seriously, if these things are easy then you are very very good at games. Even with practiced raid groups these encounters take a lot of attention, quick reactions, and great decision making.

    Even with all that, wipes can and do happen a lot on these hardmode encounters.

    “Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty”

  • protienprotien Member Posts: 2

     

     

    If you want some challenge in WOW, try to get into a 25-man high-end instances. Very stressful.

  • TarkaTarka Member Posts: 1,662
    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.



    Which is the same as any MMO which allows for a PVE playstyle.  It's just not feasible for developers to create a system that auto generates new and compelling content "on the fly" in order to create diversity without imposing some restriction on limitations.  For one thing, the playerbase wouldn't accept the persistent downloading of content in order to create such diversity.   There's nothing wrong with pre-designed content.  It's how it is presented that matters.  However, it IS possible to generate content "on the fly" using existing elements.  Anarchy Online has been doing this for years. 

    Personally I don't mind an MMO which requires you to do multiple visits to dungeons, just so long as theres some diversity in which dungeons you can go to.  Which WoW has and a lot of other MMO's doesn't have.  And when you have a VERY limited amount of content which forces the player to persistently do again and again, THAT is the definition of a grind. 

  • EthianEthian Member Posts: 1,216

    I consider WoW way too easy. Its basically a quest grinder with a gear grinder at end-game. I perfer to work for my levels rather then flying thru quests to max level.

     

    I enjoyed WoW years back but for me now its a /fail

    "I play Tera for the gameplay"

  • HrothmundHrothmund Member Posts: 1,061
    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.

     

    Maybe if you are one of the players following the guides, not making them.

    The guilds that get world firsts and clear the instances under-geared are definitely skilled players.

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.



     

    have you played any of the new Heroic Raid Dungons?

  • HrothmundHrothmund Member Posts: 1,061
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.



     

    have you played any of the new Heroic Raid Dungons?

     

    I have to say facerolling through hard modes with ready-made guides and +5 ilvl to the designed ilvl requirements is not very hard. So most players doing hard modes get a different experience than the pioneering guilds.

  • iZakaroNiZakaroN Member UncommonPosts: 719
    Originally posted by Amstrup


    Do you agree ?? Wow is easy if you want to be a casusal gamer, and hard for those who want challange.
    Reason i made this thread was because i saw haters flaming wow for being kids game, and in general to easy, but the problem was that i found wow hard and challanging since i play on high end arena, i do the hardest of the hardest hardmodes in pve.
    Wow is easy if you want it to be
    Wow is hard if you want it to be
     
    Agree ?

     

    It depend what your understanding of hard is.

    In most old school MMO games I'm more casual than hardcore gamer till in WoW I was mostly likely a "pro" hardcore :)



    image


    Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
    ______\m/_____
    LordOfDarkDesire
  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Ethian


    I consider WoW way too easy. Its basically a quest grinder with a gear grinder at end-game. I perfer to work for my levels rather then flying thru quests to max level.
     
    I enjoyed WoW years back but for me now its a /fail



     

    Gear and Armor Tiers are the Lvls.

    The traditional lvls are just a long tutorial mode for handling your class at end game. it just so happens, that the player base got soo spread out over areas, that the old lvls became pointless, so Blizzard added things like the LFG tool, to teach players how to use their class in team PvE, and the new PvP jump, makes it easier for new players, and PvE oriented players, to try to become more skilled at PvP.

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Hrothmund

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.



     

    have you played any of the new Heroic Raid Dungons?

     

    I have to say facerolling through hard modes with ready-made guides and +5 ilvl to the designed ilvl requirements is not very hard. So most players doing hard modes get a different experience than the pioneering guilds.

    I can Roll my Face on the keyboard in any game. Doesnt mean you will get anywhere.

     

    Still you didnt answer the question

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819

  • AbrahmmAbrahmm Member Posts: 2,448
    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Hrothmund

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.



     

    have you played any of the new Heroic Raid Dungons?

     

    I have to say facerolling through hard modes with ready-made guides and +5 ilvl to the designed ilvl requirements is not very hard. So most players doing hard modes get a different experience than the pioneering guilds.

    I can Roll my Face on the keyboard in any game. Doesnt mean you will get anywhere.

     

    Still you didnt answer the question

    I haven't played since the release of WotLK, I just couldn't take it any more. The hardest part of any raid I did was getting the gear to complete it and finding enough people with an IQ over 50 to follow simple instructions. The latter was the more painful of the two.

    Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
    Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
    Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
    Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
    Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.

  • tro44_1tro44_1 Member Posts: 1,819
    Originally posted by Abrahmm

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Hrothmund

    Originally posted by tro44_1

    Originally posted by Abrahmm


    WoW isn't hard, WoW is time consuming. The difficulty is in having the patients to run the same instances over and over again in order to get the gear needed to move on to the next instance/raid and start over. The encounters themselves are not difficult, the only difficulty comes from not having enough gear to beat them. WoW is easy.



     

    have you played any of the new Heroic Raid Dungons?

     

    I have to say facerolling through hard modes with ready-made guides and +5 ilvl to the designed ilvl requirements is not very hard. So most players doing hard modes get a different experience than the pioneering guilds.

    I can Roll my Face on the keyboard in any game. Doesnt mean you will get anywhere.

     

    Still you didnt answer the question

    I haven't played since the release of WotLK, I just couldn't take it any more. The hardest part of any raid I did was getting the gear to complete it and finding enough people with an IQ over 50 to follow simple instructions. The latter was the more painful of the two.

    The how in the world can you say WoW isnt hard, if you never played the End Game?

     

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    There is no end game, more like a holding pattern game.

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