Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

General: The List: Five Things We Want from MMOGs

24

Comments

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by eludajae


    You know as I read these 5 things, I realized that Bioware has pretty much handed us all 5 even the less hype, the hype for The Old Republic isnt coming from Bioware or EA, they are rather close lipped about it, and release only small bites on their website, but its the fans that are giving the hype to ToR. So if you want a MMO that has the possibility of satisfying your 5 things we want...ToR is probably the closest thing their seems to be.

    TOR is an mmo?

    It has, from the moment they first announced it, always come across as a single-player game with online elements. Every article I read confirms that view for me.

    There's nothing objectively wrong with that and I'm sure they'll make lots of money. I enjoyed the KOTOR games more than any other offline game I've played in recent years. But TOR isn't shaping up to be to something that qualifies as an mmo for me and I doubt I'll play it.

  • eludajaeeludajae Member Posts: 27

    Its an MMO lol like I said they don't do the hype others do.

     

    http://www.swtor.com/

    have a look before we get into this discussion. Its NOT a single player game.

  • SaelerilSaeleril Member UncommonPosts: 7

    I love the list you came up with for us.  I wish the developers would do more at release to show the communities that supported them they really care about a product.  Many companies today are delivering the product, but not delivering the services behind the product.  This is something I feel a lot of companies have lost in the world today.

    Successful launches mean nothing without successful support systems after launch.  I've watched a great many games fail on that fact alone (the most recent being Aion.  (NCSoft's) Aion had their launch and everyone expected more from the devs.  Here it is 3 months after release and they are just now addressing the matters at hand.  Is it really wrong for people paying to have such expectations?  Everyone used to complain about SoE's customer service, then WoW came along and people were like, "Customer Service, holy crap".  Now people buy the games expecting customer service only to be told it isn't in place yet. lol

    The community from my perspective needs more attention than just doin the "Beta Dance" with the developers.  Granted, we can't have it all, but I believe we should have something better than what we have been receiving of late.

     

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Great article. Pretty much spot on. I definitely wanna see..

    1. Less instancing and more open worlds.

    2. More sci-fi, post apocalyptic and  horror mmos. I'll always like fantasy but it is time for something different.

    30
  • lthmong1lthmong1 Member Posts: 18

    And i think, Good Graphics should be part of the five at least or the 6th.

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member UncommonPosts: 3,133

    Murphy! Long time man, good to see you're still neck deep in MMO's. Can't believe you've given in to the dark side and starting writing for Jon, lol!

    Back on topic, I'd have agree with most of your list with the exception of number 1. Maybe I'm just set in my ways but a monthly fee generates an expectation of a certain quality level. Admittedly it is a level that from my view and that of others isn't being met at current for a variety of reasons.

     

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Chavez y Chavez

  • green13green13 Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by eludajae


    Its an MMO lol like I said they don't do the hype others do.
     
    http://www.swtor.com/
    have a look before we get into this discussion. Its NOT a single player game.

    I posed that question facetiously.

    I've been following its development since it was just a rumour.

    I'm fully aware it's an mmo, but it's focus is so heavily single-player that it doesn't qualify as an mmo for me personally.

    I love Star Wars and I really enjoyed the KOTOR games, but TOR doesn't interest me.

  • godommorpggodommorpg Member UncommonPosts: 5

    well, i dont agree that dungeon and dragons online gone free to play as they said cos to play the full game u need cash itens, its mandatory.

    like happened in sword of the new world (at lvl 100 u need a veteran cash scroll to continue), taikodom (area restricted) and many many  other games u need some cash "licenses" to enjoy the full game. im not talking about power itens or something to boost or "something like that "ur stats, im talking about permissions. if u dont have some of those cash itens u are restricted at some areas only. far worse than the overpowered cash itens that are common on F2P games... cos when u saw it u fell cheated and start to hate the game. a bad market move in my opinion.

  • GeekDadManGeekDadMan Member UncommonPosts: 121

    Nice post. I definitely have similar feelings to those put on this list.

  • kzaskekzaske Member UncommonPosts: 518

    I agree with most of the items on this list.  The only one I have a little trouble with is #5.  My problem with that one is I think that fifteen dollars a month is too much.  I understand that MMOs need to make money, but for the service most of them offer, ten dollars a month is much more reasonable.

  • InnossInnoss Member Posts: 105

    More pay shops and free to play MMOS are definatly NOT... NOT... NOT what the genre needs more of. Theres absolutly hundreds of those already and the OP needs to get off the corporate tit.

  • wootinwootin Member Posts: 259

    #1. More ways to pay.  I'll go for the ability to pay more to play without microtransactions.

    15.00 doesn't buy what it used to, so if the price for a quality gaming experience must go up, oh well. 5 bucks more a month means I need what, 2 more customers for my paper route? I'll deal.

  • Ngeldu5tNgeldu5t Member UncommonPosts: 608
    Originally posted by Terranah


    More open world games, without zones and instancing.
     
    Skill based games as opposed to level based.
     
    Cheaper subscription costs, after all we are in a recession.
     
    More games that have 1 giant server as opposed to many servers, if possible.
     
    More tools for roleplayers, like better character creation, ability to modify characters after creation, ability to wear vanity clothing while getting stats from other gear, dressing rooms, housing with lots of furnishing options, pets, emotes that allow two avatars to actually touch (Matrix Online did it first), etc.

    Agreed 200%

    Build a world don`t limit your creativity in just making a game.

     

     

    In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...

  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,034

    I don't necessarily disagree that these things are desirable, but I'm not so sure they would be my top 5. My own list would look more like:

    1. Innovation: More or less what was said in the article on this point.
    2. Better Fantasy: I don't deny that there are too many fantasy MMOs in proportion to anything else, but I don't think anyone has yet done it 'right,' so to speak. Not that there is any single correct way to do fantasy—there are multiple, yet none of those that I'm interested in have really been explored. So, I can't say that I want more fantasy MMOs, but I sure as Hell want better ones. Less Azeroth, Norrath, Eberron and Toril; more Arda, Aerynth, Ashan and Thedas—make of that what you will.
    3. Better Science-fiction: I love EVE. CCP's attention to detail, realism, depth, complexity and science is somewhat rare in science-fiction and unprecedented in MMOs, and I'm a fanboy for it. Yet I want more. I've always been most interested in science-fiction that extrapolates possible futures based on currently available data. Whether it's an arid hellscape courtesy of global warming or nuclear war, or a nanotechnologically-produced geektopia or nerdvana, I want more likely scenarios than, 'Progress grinds to a near-halt in its present state and it takes us 300+ years to get technologies that are in labs right now,' or, 'Technology is "soulless" and you have to choose between it and your humanity.' Either way, stop with this getting-on-spaceships-with-deathrays-and-venturing-into-deep-space. If we colonize the galaxy, it's just not happening that way. Anyone familiar with the directions of emergent technologies will tell you this.

    4. Graphics: Yeah, I know, graphics don't matter, MMOs need to have crappy graphics, and I'm a horrible, shallow person for caring about their improvement at all. Bite me. I fully understand why this genre lags behind the others, yet the present breadth of the gap seems ridiculous. Sure, there are some that give a damn, yet for every EVE or Age of Conan, there's a dozen World of WarCrafts, none of which are as successful as the former two. Gee, maybe being a graphical Luddite isn't the key.
    5. Audio: From music scores to voice-acting to sound effects. Let's go. Precious few developers seem to consider this any sort of priority. The rest overlook it as easily as the players who can't quite pin down that 'something' the game they like is missing.

     

    Favorites: EQEVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • Xondar123Xondar123 Member CommonPosts: 2,543
    Originally posted by marcuslm


    Great list, I agree with all of them.
     
    I ESPECIALLY agree with #5. I am so tired of the sub model. Sub models cater to those who can play hours everyday. They completely leave out those who are casual players, those who play in spurts, or those who split their time between multiple games simply because they like variety. I don't want to feel like I have to play a game all of the time to get my money's worth. I do wish that the quality of non-sub games would come up. I think Allods online and DDO could be helping to raise the bar on what we expect from a  F2P.

    Yeah, instead of penalizing people who don't spend time playing a game, they should penalize people who don't have money to throw at the game.

    How much does going to see a movie in the theater cost? $9-$10? That's for roughly two hours of entertainment. With a $15 monthly subscription people can play anytime they want for as long as they want. Even the most casual player will be able to dredge up enough time in a month to blow away the entertainment value of a single movie.

    What's a realistic alternative to paying a monthly subscription that doesn't penalize people who aren't willing to spend a lot of money?

  • As it turns out, the "Free-2-Play" model is wide open for a wide variety of abuses:

    1) once you reach a certain level the grind becomes unbearable and you're forced to use the cash shop to alleviate the pain...or start a new character.

     

    2) PvP is really only viable for cash shop users (unless you like to lose)...I'm really good at PvP and, on top of that, if I'm using the CS to generate vast amounts of in-game cash and super +'ed items, Free player's don't stand a chance against me. Period. For CS users who do want to get involved in PvP you better be ready to out-spend me 'cause if you don't I'll hand you one humiliating defeat after another. I've known people who have spent $10,000+ in CS...in less than a years time! Crazy!

     

    3) Some CS consumable items are on a fairly short timer and if you hit a lag-spike and crash...well, you're just SOL as far as the company is concerned.

     

    There are plenty of really bad things about the Free-2-Play scam...I'll take a good Pay-2-Play game over a F2P game any day of the week!

     

    Now, about innovation: there isn't any! I have never played a MMOG that was innovative or had (worthwhile) innovative elements in it. All MMOGs are basically the same...the only difference is the artwork. Here are a few of the innovations I want to see...

     

    1) I want to be able to talk through my character, in a convincing way. If I'm playing a 7' tall 400lb. orc I want to look and sound like it when I communicate with others in-game. An in-line voice synthesizer could accomplish that...but no one in the industry is attempting it because it would require an investment of time and money to integrate it into a MMOG.

     

    2) I want the NPC's in MMOGs to talk and really communicate with me in a convincing way...this would constitute a significant investment and so we won't be seeing it any time soon.

     

    3) I want a MMOG that helps me to stay physically fit while I'm playing it...the MMOGs we have today can only damage your health, and your social life for that matter.

     

    4) I WANT A VIRTUAL REALITY MMOG...it's totally doable right now (might cost a pretty penny to buy the equipment, but...) but it's nowhere on any companies roadmap. To tough for a little 100-man team to accomplish...but a 500-man team could do it! ;)

     

    What it all boils down to is this...money. It's the money-men behind the scenes who totally control the products that are available to us. It's the $@%* bankers F#&kin' us over again!

     

     

     

  • ThefivemagikThefivemagik Member Posts: 13

     

     

    Very good list, i agree with most of the points to be honest, especially the "Hype-Factor". Heres my oppinion. In 2009, people were drooling over gameplay visuals, screenshots and promises for the game known as Aion. I'm not saying it's an awfull game, but i certainly didn't meet our standards after months of boiling up. Aion would have been a more sucessfull game if the company didn't make us wan't it so much. With an average release and alot of advertising, Aion could have been a better game. Instead of the multiple, magical combat videos, intense flying and an unbelievable world. It's drowned out in comparison to the weak gameplay.

     

    This is similiar to Age of Conan and the siege gameplay videos. I believe Conan is a very good game at this point, one of the best P2P however at the time nothing lived up to the standards of what we were being shows. Like Warhammer online, awfull launch with countless bugs, but slowly growing. All of the games listed could have been more stable and successfull if we didn't expect too much!

    And that is what is slightly annoying. We the gamers watch the videos and the screenshots of what game companies produce. Hey, it's what we are suppose to do after all. But ofcourse, on release we are dissapointed after months of viewing these to be exposed to a game with a lack of innovation.

     

    Waiting for the next big thing.

  • willybachwillybach Member Posts: 39

    How far are we off procedurally created contect? By that I mean, a world, vast and with quests, story lines both minor and major all generated continually by an internal system - I'd love to see something like this eventually. For me this would solve so many of the problems with end game content. Of course, the Devs can also continue to add content, providing the auto-storyline generator with additional options - but essentially a game with potentially far longer playability. Players would also have to keep their ears to the ground, waiting for the next big storyarch to spontaneously emerge - after all the first players to the scene would get first picking of any awards, loot, fame etc....

    A true Sandbox...not completely PvP orientated...

    Also enough with killing 1023423 rabbits, 45533232 wolves and 44546322 tortoises, surely there must be a more engaging/morally appealing way to level.... or at least more realistic grazing patterns (25 rabbits don't just sit there chomping on carrots whilst a small army of people waltz by) ... why can't hunting down and killing one elusive enemy provide the same xp as killing 50 brainless sprites ...? More challenging, more rewarding...

    Also.....we're all still waiting for the first BIG space sim/mmorpg..... I might jump on the Eve wagon when Ambulation hits but a 2001: A Space odyssey + Alien + a whole lot of imagination ONLINE would be a dream come true for me... Star Trek looks like it won't be what I'm looking for, even though I love the show.

     

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,273

    We don’t need other ways to pay; MMO companies do as they think this will yield more profit. But I think this is a fallacy which will only be proven when new western MMO’s are released as F2P and fail to deliver the goods. MMO companies will have to get their fingers burnt before they realise that F2P is not a MMO Eldorado.

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    giev reason to play oh mighty mmorpg god.

    i dont want to play a teleporter anymore

    if i kill someone im a teleporter

    if i murder someone im a teleporter

    if i heal someone im preventing him to teleport

    if i speak im a speaking teleporter

    if i die ,i teleport

    if i follow the "story" i wont propably teleport much,but i do lots of teleporting to others.

    if i dont follow the "story" i will teleport much,but others wont teleport much.

     

     

     

     

     

    Generation P

  • Yoottos'HorgYoottos'Horg Member UncommonPosts: 297

    I think it was a good article. All five points were valid and I don't necessarily think the order was important. As with most everyone else on this thread, I have some dreams of my own.

     

    What do I want in 2010?

     

    I want one world! Is that the only thing? Well, no, but it's certainly a start. EvE has it (except for the load between gates and stations), WoW has this (except for instances) but I want the whole damned thing to be open. I can tolerate some instances because I believe they are necessary for those people who enjoy raiding and the like, but the game as a whole should not be focused on instances. The world in which we all interact should not simply be a large chat room for us to jook-and-jive, to sell our goods or to dance around with half naked avatars. It should be the place we LIVE in and the instance is simply something we visit.

     

    I want a truly bare world! This doesn't mean I want a baren and empty world; what fun would that be? I simply want a world where the playes are given the tools to build it. When the "settlers" arrive on the world they only have the clothes on their back, the knowledge in their heads and the will to live. It could be a hostile world filled with creatures and a semi-intelligent NPC race with a few select towns (I'm talking two or three). Everything else will be open for the player to create! Individuals can build houses and communities can build towns. People can be elected to run towns, NPCs can be hired to protect it, people can band together to destroy it. Think SWG cities but with NPC security forces (you must pay the upkeep on them), and the possibility for people to band together to wipe it out (think Darkfall). People could create central hubs of commerce and community and people can choose to tear it down. It would be a true empire building MMO but it would also satisfy the crafters (who build the blueprints) and entertain the PvP'ers (who can tear your world down).

     

    I want history! There wil be limited history when the game first launches because the world is bare. But as time progresses, as people band together, as communities are built and destroyed, there will be a rich history created from people who actually played the game! If there is a large PvP battle which takes place on an open field, I want the development team to erect a monument so that people who come afterwards can learn of what happened there. If a city is built and flourishes for several years, only to be destroyed by greed, war and political intrigue then I want the developers to create ruins in the place where the once mighty city existed. The Developers would ensure the world continues but that relics of the past exist to remind us of what once was.

     

    I just want to developers to step out of the limelight and place us (the players) right smack dab in the middle of it! Create the tools for us to create the world for them. I'm tired of playing in a pre-fabricated world. I want to play in one that we the players created together and helped tear apart together. In many ways EvE has this but it's still not quite there. The lore existed for us, the universe was already well established.

     

    Let us paint the canvas for you. You need only create the frame for the world to exist and we will do the rest...and pay you for it!!!

  • ManarixManarix Member UncommonPosts: 98

    Well, 10 dollar or 15 dollar, for me the amount doesn't matter. A few beers in the pub more or less really. IF, and that is a big if, the game is worth it, i will pay whatever it takes.

    The last game that made me feel like "paying whatever it takes' was DAOC tho, 5 years ago...sigh.

    Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained.
    Played: almost all MMO pre 2007

  • LochdarLochdar Member Posts: 30
    Originally posted by godommorpg


    well, i dont agree that dungeon and dragons online gone free to play as they said cos to play the full game u need cash itens, its mandatory.
    like happened in sword of the new world (at lvl 100 u need a veteran cash scroll to continue), taikodom (area restricted) and many many  other games u need some cash "licenses" to enjoy the full game. im not talking about power itens or something to boost or "something like that "ur stats, im talking about permissions. if u dont have some of those cash itens u are restricted at some areas only. far worse than the overpowered cash itens that are common on F2P games... cos when u saw it u fell cheated and start to hate the game. a bad market move in my opinion.

    Without going into an argument about what constitutes a "full game" I would say you are misstaken in saying that you need to pay to play DDO. It is for example possible to get everything in the game without paying, but that would probably require 24/7 playing the game. Now getting to max level without paying on the other hand is very much possible but will take alot of questgrinding and determination (up to the point that anyone who can hold a job would rather pay a small amount).

    Lost and depressed, where are the good MMOs at?

  • DeathWolf2uDeathWolf2u Member Posts: 291

    Good job William Murphy I agree with your list although #5 there is really no new way to pay. It is either free with item mall or monthly sub. not sure how that can be any different. Methods for paying cover it all as well from paypal to credit card to buying prepaid game cards in the store there is no new way of paying really.

     

    If you are like me then you are buying a new game once per month or maybe more. If you have a mmorpg that you play and they want $15.00 a month that is still cheaper than $49 or $59 a month for a new game.

     

    However, as long as the devs are releasing new content that makes it worth $15 a month then it's a great deal.

    If they release small fixes once a month then no it's not worth $15 a month considering you already paid $49 or $59 for the main game.

     

    Anyway great topic and list good job.

  • Lizard_SFLizard_SF Member Posts: 348
    Originally posted by poopypants



    What it all boils down to is this...money. It's the money-men behind the scenes who totally control the products that are available to us. It's the $@%* bankers F#&kin' us over again!
     
     
     

     

    Well, not entirely. It's YOUR WILLINGNESS TO PAY that drives what the "money-men behind the scenes" sign off on.

    Will you pay 100.00 a month?

    Will 250K->500K other people?

    Will they do so for years on end?

    PROVE to a group of investors the answer to all three is "yes", and you'll see games built which justify that cost. As it is, there's a pretty good reason to believe that 15-20 month is the most you'll ever get from the majority of players, and those willing to pay more don't constitute a large enough group that developing costly features is worth it.

    To pick one example of many, a lot of what people want, assuming we don't invent HAL anytime soon (we're more thamn 8 years past schedule, dammit!), requires a real live person playing the NPCs and running the world -- basically, a DM as in tabletop games. Let's assume that such a DM could handle 6 players on a "live" quest which lasted 2-3 hours. Let's further assume, just to keep things reasonable, you can have one such "live" quest per player (not character) per week. Perhaps there's a queueing system, or something. A barely-succesful game has 300K active players, but let's pick 500K as any game smaller than that could never hope to do it.

    You're going to need someone with good communication skills, someone with a lot of patience, someone well trained in the tools and UI. You'll need someone you can really trust to not toss gold/items to his buddies -- this has been a problem in every game from UO to EVE. Based on salaries in CA, where most MMO companies exist, this is a scraping-the-bottom minimum salary of 15.00 hour, and, honestly, it should be 20.00, and that is a starvation wage in Silicon Valley. Seriously.

    So, 20/hour, and an eight hour work day. If we figure 1/5 of the active player base takes advantage of the 'live quest' system on any given week, thats 100K players a week, times 3 hours per player, or 300,000 hours of "GM Time". Obviously, there are shifts, but any employee can only be legally required to wotk 40 hours/week. 300K divided by 40 means you'd need SEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED employees to do this. Assuming cost of an employee is roughly 1.5 times their salary (this is lowballing it, a lot), that's an expense of... lemme see... 175 or so hours/month, times 30... 5200/month per employee, time 7500... 39,000,000.00. Divide by 500K players, and that's 78.00 per player. Just to support this feature.

    You can play with these numbers up or down a lot, but if you start seriously limiting player access to a feature, you have to seriously cut down how much you can expect someone to pay. If there's one random "livequest" per week and six random players, out of 500K, get to experience it, it won't cost you much, but you'll have 499,994 pissed off players -- which WILL cost you a lot. Everyone plonks down the same amount of money; everyone expects equal access to all parts of the game. (This opens up the idea of tiered play, where there's 100/month club who gets live DMs and everyone else doesn't, but you have to be sure there's enough to sustain the feature. And I'm not even talking of the extra coders, maintenance, debugging, etc, adding all this code to an MMO would involve.)

Sign In or Register to comment.