Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Ruyn Originally posted by StrixMaxima Sigh, always the same old tired arguments. I find it extremely sad that the supporters of DFO cannot see/accept the game's limitations and shortcomings (because they are many). They do not detract from it in a sense that it's not fun. It is a different flavor of gum. It is as if accepting/identifying flaws means the game is a failure, which is far from reality. And, really, "carebear" is a 90s term. Be more creative, because there are no hardcore games out there. Using this kind of language creates only noise in the communication. Raise above it.
Well the thing is MMO's of late have been "dumbed down" into oblivion and it has left a huge emotional disconnect. This game reconnects you and provides you with one hellova emotional experience. I am playing DF right now and I can tell you that so far it has less variety then that game you hate so much it gives you mini-heart-attacks when you hear its name (im not gonna name it for that reason). DF may be dumbed down, but its still fun to play so fa. I haven't encountered any PKs yet so I dont know how PvP works yet. I am just doing the goblins over and over. It seems that there is nothing else but goblins around... and foxes/deer who do not fight back.
You know there are many more mobs than goblins, right? Venture further out than the range of the guard towers and you'll find them. Travel to another area with a guard tower and along the way you might come across mobs like bears, trolls, skeletons, kobolds, winged snakes, hivekins, zombies, orks, etc. Not to mention other players.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
No, MMORPGs have not been dumbed down, nor was it ever a good genre. It's just that people are beginning to wake up. Once you strip away the grind; you're left with a shallow shell of a game in which there's barely anything to do. The purists who still cling to this notion that MMORPGs have turned CAREBEAR and SIMPLISTIC simply don't want to see this truth.
They want to waste their lives grinding away at tedious and meaingless tasks.
They want a hard coded number advantage to feed the illusion that they're good at the game they play.
They want that sense of accomplishment back that WoW so horribly stripped away from them. When you sink hours upon hours, months upon months getting a few pixels; you can lord over all those who didn't have the time to get this object, laying waste to them all while spouting stilted one liners such as
Learn 2 play, noob.
lol get some skill.
Put in your time.
Darkfall presented itself as something different. Something that didn't consider a "kill 10 rats" quest as content. A game where progression mattered, but didn't grant an insurmountable advantage. A game that you can approach in your own way and still be successful. It doesn't do any of these things.
Side step the issue all you like, but at the end of the day; the game claims to be something it's not. Nobody cares that you twinked out your RL newbie friend to go participate in a big battle - he's still at a very big disadvantage. About the only thing in your original post that made any sense would canoneer role.
The funniest thing about this game is it's fanbase, and how it reacts to criticism.
Mostly the contradictions and the endless, predictable loops all of the debates seem to have.
New guy: The stat grind sucks, I thought the game wasn't supposed to be like this.
Veteran: WELL ITS NOT THAT BAD I MEAN WOW HAS A LEVEL GRIND TOO. WOW SUCKS THOUGH SINCE IT HAS DUMBED DOWN AND KILLED MMORPGS.
New guy: Well, Im going to make a mage, can I get some.
Veteran: NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS THIS AND THIS, OH YOU NEED 75 in 2h BUT FIRST YOU GOTTA MAKE 10,000 arrows and use them all ON GOBLINS TO BE PVP VIABLE. OH ITS NOT THAT BAD ITLL ONLY TAKE 1 - 2 MONTHS to doing this NON STOP UNTIL YOU CAN MAYBE DO SOME DAMAGE TO SOMEONE.
New guy: But the page says...
Veteran: WELL WOW BUILDS YOU HAVE TO USE SO WHY IS IT BAD HERE?!!
New guy: Ok I'll do all that, but this game sure is boring and I get killed a lot.
Veteran: NO ITS NOT BORING FUCK U CAREBEAR. Join a GOOD CLAN AND BANK EVERY 10 GOLD YOU GET.
New guy: Ok, I joined a clan with some new friends I found in game, but we keep getting killed in town. Joining a clan with new players is actually...
Thats it. An open-ended, skill-based, player-driven ecosystem environment where I actually have to play the game to progress; I'm cancelling.
This is the sound of something going over someone's head.
No, I'm serious. Who wants to play a sandboxy game that removes the artificial restrictions of game-play code that has hampered breadth and depth of player-driven and influenced game-play? Where is that PvE class-restricted game now? *looking*
Originally posted by LogothX New guy: The stat grind sucks, I thought the game wasn't supposed to be like this. Veteran: WELL ITS NOT THAT BAD I MEAN WOW HAS A LEVEL GRIND TOO. WOW SUCKS THOUGH SINCE IT HAS DUMBED DOWN AND KILLED MMORPGS. New guy: Well, Im going to make a mage, can I get some. Veteran: NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS THIS AND THIS, OH YOU NEED 75 in 2h BUT FIRST YOU GOTTA MAKE 10,000 arrows and use them all ON GOBLINS TO BE PVP VIABLE. OH ITS NOT THAT BAD ITLL ONLY TAKE 1 - 2 MONTHS to doing this NON STOP UNTIL YOU CAN MAYBE DO SOME DAMAGE TO SOMEONE. New guy: But the page says... Veteran: WELL WOW BUILDS YOU HAVE TO USE SO WHY IS IT BAD HERE?!! New guy: Ok I'll do all that, but this game sure is boring and I get killed a lot. Veteran: NO ITS NOT BORING FUCK U CAREBEAR. Join a GOOD CLAN AND BANK EVERY 10 GOLD YOU GET. New guy: Ok, I joined a clan with some new friends I found in game, but we keep getting killed in town. Joining a clan with new players is actually... Veteran : NO ITS NOT SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Nice frankenstein you got there. Masterful attempt at painting an entire fanbase based on the disjointed, exaggerated responses of a few.
And you wonder why the fans of the game get pissy...
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
New guy: The stat grind sucks, I thought the game wasn't supposed to be like this.
Veteran: WELL ITS NOT THAT BAD I MEAN WOW HAS A LEVEL GRIND TOO. WOW SUCKS THOUGH SINCE IT HAS DUMBED DOWN AND KILLED MMORPGS.
New guy: Well, Im going to make a mage, can I get some.
Veteran: NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS THIS AND THIS, OH YOU NEED 75 in 2h BUT FIRST YOU GOTTA MAKE 10,000 arrows and use them all ON GOBLINS TO BE PVP VIABLE. OH ITS NOT THAT BAD ITLL ONLY TAKE 1 - 2 MONTHS to doing this NON STOP UNTIL YOU CAN MAYBE DO SOME DAMAGE TO SOMEONE.
New guy: But the page says...
Veteran: WELL WOW BUILDS YOU HAVE TO USE SO WHY IS IT BAD HERE?!!
New guy: Ok I'll do all that, but this game sure is boring and I get killed a lot.
Veteran: NO ITS NOT BORING FUCK U CAREBEAR. Join a GOOD CLAN AND BANK EVERY 10 GOLD YOU GET.
New guy: Ok, I joined a clan with some new friends I found in game, but we keep getting killed in town. Joining a clan with new players is actually...
Veteran : NO ITS NOT SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Nice frankenstein you got there. Masterful attempt at painting an entire fanbase based on the disjointed, exaggerated responses of a few.
And you wonder why the fans of the game get pissy...
"Few" you say. Most of the responses can pretty much be boiled down into what I described; sans the caps lock... Most of the time.
You people had no problem with this game when it was being described during the "Tasos' wonderful vision!" phase of development; why do you have a problem with people suggesting things that would actually bring it in line with the hype?
The players who are expressing disappointment with the game are the people who took the home page's and fan word of mouth at face value.
Do I need to dig up that lovely list from launch in which a "disgruntled player" describes the innaccuracies of the feature least in detail?
Nobody cares that you twinked out your RL newbie friend to go participate in a big battle - he's still at a very big disadvantage. About the only thing in your original post that made any sense would canoneer role.
This is the only part from this post that resembles to have any connection to what I wrote. And the only visible argument in it is that statements like "You can ride and fight on a mount from the first day" or "you can explore the map" or "you can harvest from any node" make absolutely no sense to you.
Nobody cares that you twinked out your RL newbie friend to go participate in a big battle - he's still at a very big disadvantage. About the only thing in your original post that made any sense would canoneer role.
This is the only part from this post that resembles to have any connection to what I wrote. And the only visible argument in it is that statements like "You can ride and fight on a mount from the first day" or "you can explore the map" or "you can harvest from any node" make absolutely no sense to you.
...
Right...
The post was more directed at the tsunami of stupid that followed your post, and the typical responses one gets when saying anything bad about the game.
Keep in mind that while the things you described are technically possible; they are both unlikely and highly impractical (Except that ONE role). The average new player isn't going to be invited into VAMP or NEMESIS on his first day. The average new player won't even get to LOOK at any of the actual GAME part of the game until he performs to requisite grinding - and proves himself to the small circle jerk. Amazingly enough - you note this in your post; but the fact remains that you misunderstand what people are complaining about.
knock yourself out....dig out that list from almost a year ago, and some major content patches later to make yourself feel better so i can rofl.
16 hours of your life wasted on Darkfall. How does it feel?
Keep in mind that while the things you described are technically possible; they are both unlikely and highly impractical (Except that ONE role). The average new player isn't going to be invited into VAMP or NEMESIS on his first day. The average new player won't even get to LOOK at any of the actual GAME part of the game until he performs to requisite grinding - and proves himself to the small circle jerk. Amazingly enough - you note this in your post; but the fact remains that you misunderstand what people are complaining about.
So the second part of this paragraph, is you telling me about the first part of this paragraph in which you are telling me about the things I already said?
Interesting.
And, btw, you are wrong, participating in different sizes of PVP and PVE battles, exploring, harvesting from nodes, riding mounts, or playing as a scout are stuff you will most probably do from the first day if you join a semi-decent clan that is not run by douche-bags. And I have no actual numbers but my guess is that at least half of Darkfall players join a clan that falls within this criteria very soon after joining the game. If your clan did not include you in such events when you first joined and instead ordered you to grind then it was a bad clan and definitely not the standard.
Originally posted by LogothX New guy: The stat grind sucks, I thought the game wasn't supposed to be like this. Veteran: WELL ITS NOT THAT BAD I MEAN WOW HAS A LEVEL GRIND TOO. WOW SUCKS THOUGH SINCE IT HAS DUMBED DOWN AND KILLED MMORPGS. New guy: Well, Im going to make a mage, can I get some. Veteran: NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS THIS AND THIS, OH YOU NEED 75 in 2h BUT FIRST YOU GOTTA MAKE 10,000 arrows and use them all ON GOBLINS TO BE PVP VIABLE. OH ITS NOT THAT BAD ITLL ONLY TAKE 1 - 2 MONTHS to doing this NON STOP UNTIL YOU CAN MAYBE DO SOME DAMAGE TO SOMEONE. New guy: But the page says... Veteran: WELL WOW BUILDS YOU HAVE TO USE SO WHY IS IT BAD HERE?!! New guy: Ok I'll do all that, but this game sure is boring and I get killed a lot. Veteran: NO ITS NOT BORING FUCK U CAREBEAR. Join a GOOD CLAN AND BANK EVERY 10 GOLD YOU GET. New guy: Ok, I joined a clan with some new friends I found in game, but we keep getting killed in town. Joining a clan with new players is actually... Veteran : NO ITS NOT SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Nice frankenstein you got there. Masterful attempt at painting an entire fanbase based on the disjointed, exaggerated responses of a few. And you wonder why the fans of the game get pissy...
"Few" you say. Most of the responses can pretty much be boiled down into what I described; sans the caps lock... Most of the time. You people had no problem with this game when it was being described during the "Tasos' wonderful vision!" phase of development; why do you have a problem with people suggesting things that would actually bring it in line with the hype? The players who are expressing disappointment with the game are the people who took the home page's and fan word of mouth at face value. Do I need to dig up that lovely list from launch in which a "disgruntled player" describes the innaccuracies of the feature least in detail?
"You people". You clearly have no idea what I've been posting or that I'm a newer player that doesn't give a shit what Tasos' grand visions were. You're really quite quick to lump everyone into neat and tidy groups you can label and hate on.
I don't care what you dig up about the game's pre-launch feature list. The game as it stands now is fun, even for a newb. I'm proof of that.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
"You people". You clearly have no idea what I've been posting or that I'm a newer player that doesn't give a shit what Tasos' grand visions were. You're really quite quick to lump everyone into neat and tidy groups you can label and hate on.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not.
The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not.
I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
Furthermore, the new player is not informed of how irrelevant they are on the battlefield.
While I'm on the subject of scaling, Tasos himself (in recent and in past interviews) and Darkfall fans have noted that seniority in the game does not grant invulnerablily. Yet again, I must respectfully say "bullshit".
Earlier this week outside of New Flayed Elf, the Ork capital of Agon, it was business as usual. New players tinkering away at their crafts in their newbie area. Harvesting, doing title quests and just playing the game when suddenly a veteran player attacks. His poorly rendered spell thundering through the immediate area. Me, three newbies and one of what I assume to be mid level player watched this guy decimate a new player with ease as he attempted to escape. From the security of our tower areas, we all started firing mana missles and arrows at the guy. I myself remember having my level 30ish mana missle hit the guy for 7 damage. At one point the guy even stood there and took the hits just to mock us.
Was the above uncommon, you say? The above happened numerous times during the week last week in the Ork area. I've had a naked Dwarf appear out of thin air and start pounding me with a hammer; and I couldn't even RUN from him because he simply ran faster than I did. Is this getting through yet? The majority of the selling points of Darkfall online are pitiful half truths.
I don't care what you dig up about the game's pre-launch feature list. The game as it stands now is fun, even for a newb. I'm proof of that.
YOU enjoy it for the time being; and I'm just estatic for you. But this isn't about something as subjective and abstract as "fun". It's about the truth.
I'm curious. Have you played the game?
As the last scenario pointed out I do own the game, I've owned it for two weeks actually.
My initial impressions were much the same as yours; I liked it - but as a small time passed I came to the realization that this is just shallow, tedious gameplay masked and hidden behind a gargatuan grind: or in other words - business as usual in the MMORPG scene.
Originally posted by LogothX I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not.The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not.I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.I'm not sure that I'd paint it as intentionally deceiving anyone so much as others are reading into it. You're right that the vast majority of brand spanking new players will NOT participate in a siege or naval battle. I sure didn't. But it's possible. The potential is there. You're not restricted from doing so. I believe that's what some of the more level-headed are trying to get across.
Furthermore, the new player is not informed of how irrelevant they are on the battlefield.Does it really matter? Would that detract from the fun on day 1? I've had tons of fun in sieges and city defense. I HAVE contributed by healing players and mounts and adding to steady stream of arrows pummeling attackers. Attackers can't tell my arrow won't do that much damage to them. If they see it coming, they dodge. If enough spells and arrows are coming at them, they retreat. This is in a siege or city defense scenario. Small skirmishes and 1v1 are a different matter.While I'm on the subject of scaling, Tasos himself (in recent and in past interviews) and Darkfall fans have noted that seniority in the game does not grant invulnerablily. Yet again, I must respectfully say "bullshit".Earlier this week outside of New Flayed Elf, the Ork capital of Agon, it was business as usual. New players tinkering away at their crafts in their newbie area. Harvesting, doing title quests and just playing the game when suddenly a veteran player attacks. His poorly rendered spell thundering through the immediate area. Me, three newbies and one of what I assume to be mid level player watched this guy decimate a new player with ease as he attempted to escape. From the security of our tower areas, we all started firing mana missles and arrows at the guy. I myself remember having my level 30ish mana missle hit the guy for 7 damage. At one point the guy even stood there and took the hits just to mock us.Was the above uncommon, you say? The above happened numerous times during the week last week in the Ork area. I've had a naked Dwarf appear out of thin air and start pounding me with a hammer; and I couldn't even RUN from him because he simply ran faster than I did. Is this getting through yet? The majority of the selling points of Darkfall online are pitiful half truths.I know it's not uncommon. You're preaching to the choir. I had it happen to me tonight. The red just stood there and let me plink at him with my arrows, also in ork lands.I've never said the game can't be improved or that it's this amazing, perfect utopia that was painted early on or even everything the Web site says. But none of that has stopped me and other newbs like me in my clan from having fun. I've accepted I'm going to get rolled if I try to tangle with an advanced player. It doesn't stop me from making my own fun in the game.YOU enjoy it for the time being; and I'm just estatic for you. But this isn't about something as subjective and abstract as "fun". It's about the truth.
Truth meaning "your experience with the game"? Because you seem convinced the game can't be enjoyed by newbs. That seems pretty subjective to me. The game CAN be played from day 1, but you're not going to be anywhere near as strong as more advanced players. Nor should you be. Macroers and hackers are another deal though. They should be banned.As the last scenario pointed out I do own the game, I've owned it for two weeks actually.My initial impressions were much the same as yours; I liked it - but as a small time passed I came to the realization that this is just shallow, tedious gameplay masked and hidden behind a gargatuan grind: or in other words - business as usual in the MMORPG scene.Garbage in - Garbage out.The grind has been part of MMOs since they began. That said, the stat grind in DFO is nuts. Skills is fine in my opinion.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I'm not sure that I'd paint it as intentionally deceiving anyone so much as others are reading into it. You're right that the vast majority of brand spanking new players will NOT participate in a siege or naval battle. I sure didn't. But it's possible. The potential is there. You're not restricted from doing so. I believe that's what some of the more level-headed are trying to get across.
Of course it's not intentional, people are actually this stupid. People have friends invite them into the game, they act as a decoy in some zerg siege and they come here to boast about the experience and how great the game is.
Does it really matter? Would that detract from the fun on day 1? I've had tons of fun in sieges and city defense. I HAVE contributed by healing players and mounts and adding to steady stream of arrows pummeling attackers. Attackers can't tell my arrow won't do that much damage to them. If they see it coming, they dodge. If enough spells and arrows are coming at them, they retreat. This is in a siege or city defense scenario. Small skirmishes and 1v1 are a different matter.
I can't speak for everyone, but the majority of people who go into Darkfall are going to be at least somewhat attuned with how MMORPGs work. As such wouldn't take kindly to being cannon fodder on the field. After all the boasting about how they can contribute from day one, they would soon find themselves filling the role of picking up corpses and if they're lucky; manning a cannon... Should they even be lucky enough to go into the field of battle.
Healing other players isnt a skill you get that early I dont think, so I assume you mean ressurecting. Performing throw away roles is a far cry from the whole "4 newbies can take on a veteran" schtick we've heard so often.
I've never said the game can't be improved or that it's this amazing, perfect utopia that was painted early on or even everything the Web site says. But none of that has stopped me and other newbs like me in my clan from having fun. I've accepted I'm going to get rolled if I try to tangle with an advanced player. It doesn't stop me from making my own fun in the game.
This is irrelevant. I never questioned your enjoyment of the game; I questioned and imbecilic hardcore fanbase and their hyperbole. What do you want me to say here? "NO UR NOT HAVING FUN SCREW U"?
People who share my opinion were sold a game that was supposed to be a sandbox. In which there was more than one way to approach the game and have fun... But there are no choices.
Builds? There are very few viable variations. (Three? Or maybe two)
Economy? It's a chat window.
Advanced AI? If some basic procedures and having monsters spaz out and disobey the rules in the game than yes; advanced ai. (Examples being skeletons running and sidestepping at absurd speeds)and so on.
Truth meaning "your experience with the game"? Because you seem convinced the game can't be enjoyed by newbs. That seems pretty subjective to me. The game CAN be played from day 1, but you're not going to be anywhere near as strong as more advanced players. Nor should you be. Macroers and hackers are another deal though. They should be banned.
No. Not "my experience" the whole "This game has a giant ass stat grind watch out" truth. Incidentally, most if not all of the "advanced" players have macrod or exploited at one point. Even if they're not maxed. Whether it's a bugged mob, afk harvesting, or just plain being a dick with the declaration system. The game is full of holes and douche bags who take advantage of them; all while spouting "Learn to play". Why do I need to grind for 1 - 2 months to MAYBE but PROBABLY NOT stand a chance against unpunished cheaters?
There are some people who can enjoy this; this game's tiny playerbase is proof of that, but if the average player doesn't get to do a great deal of the things advertised; furthermore the other portion of things are activities they can partake in, but highly exagerrated (Mob AI, "Advanced trading" which is just a chat window, "Play it your way" being "Craft 10k arrorws and use them on goblins to be PVP viable")
The grind has been part of MMOs since they began. That said, the stat grind in DFO is nuts. Skills is fine in my opinion.
This game was marketed as being "different" in this regard. It's not.
I thought the following post needed to be pulled out of the thread talking about the video with Tasos in and be given its own thread. This post sums up what DF players mean when they say you can do everything from day 1
Let me shed some light as to what Darkfall players mean when they say you can do everything from the beginning. You can take part in any siege, or for that matter any small or large battle in the game from day 1. You will probably make little difference in the outcome and you might leave the battle 4-shot killed but there is no artificial barrier preventing you from joining it and seeing how it feels like.
You can do this in many other MMOs as well, under similar circumstances. I can roll a brand-new character on Saturday morning and be on a siege field Saturday afternoon helping to attack or defend it. You can ride a horse and use it in combat from day 1, no barriers there.
... assuming you can get one on day one. Easier said than done, unless you get a lot of help. You can take part in a naval battle from day one, you can actually steer ships and use cannons, and in that case you will prove more useful as a cannoneer since using a cannon is not associated with any skill or stat, so you are equally useful as a pro (although not nearly as durable). Same goes for warhulks.
Assuming you can join a clan on day one who already has said naval capabilities and want to bring you along. You can join any PVE raid with your clan from day 1. From average mobs, to tough ones to even the Krakens or the flying Fire Dragons. Also you will probably make little difference but much more significant difference than other MMOs.
You can do the same in many, many other MMOs on day one as well, with the same caveats. I'll pull some numbers out of my ass here, but I'm sure they are not too far from the truth: Let's say that a well equipped pro with good skills and stats deals 50 damage with his bow to the fire dragon. Then a noob with his crappy bow and low skills will deal around 10. It's still not much but these numbers are orders of magnitude closer to each other than other MMOs. It means that if 20 pros can take down a fire dragon then 100 noobs can achieve the same feat. (I know that the numbers are more complicated than that but the principle still applies). How many other MMOs can boast the same thing? In WoW for example, if 25 pros can take out the Lich King (or whatever mob) then how many 10 level noobs could do it? Probably not even 10000, even if you could put them in the same room which you can't because the raid bosses are instanced.
If the dragon hardly ever attacks them or, miraculously, misses.... or they all have some super damage mitigation. I was attacked by that dragon on my way across Agon and within 2 hits, I was nearly dead. Not gonna get much damage done if your "Day One Army" is dying that quickly. Anyway, moving on. In Darkfall you can explore 90% of Agons surface from day 1, and the rest 10% is there not because of instancing or other artificial restrictions, but because it is guarded by mobs that hit hard. Still if you are good at avoiding them, or somebody else is farming them/keeping them busy then you can explore 100% of the map. And I was referring to land, you can also explore the islands in the sea by swimming, although you'll have to avoid the sharks. Your job will be much easier if you get a raft (rafts are quite cheap, a couple of days work for a 1st week noob) although you will still have to avoid the Kraken.
Can do the same in most any other MMO I've played as well... with the same caveats, such as avoiding more powerful enemies and players who could cut the trip short. Also, for the above reasons you can make a perfectly good scout/spy for your clan. The ability to spot enemies and to hide well is not a character skill but a player skill, so no restrictions there either. Sure if you are discovered you will die easily, but scouts are not supposed to be meatshields anyway.
Again... can do this in many other MMOs. From a clan perspective you can be a diplomat or even a general commanding armies from day 1. There are no character skills associated with talking to, leading or misleading people, only player skills. Although being a 4-shot killable commander on a battlefield may prove a little impractical if you are not careful.
Errr... what? This example is ridiculous.
What you're basically describing is a player being able to lead a large number of other players in a MMO setting. There is no such "skills" in any MMO required to do that as you're dealing with *real people* at that point... not in-game characters. People follow a given leader because they want to... not because the leader's character has a high "charisma" stat or something.
Again... can do this in many other MMOs... it comes down to whether or not you're given the opportunity to command the players and they listen to you. You can also live in your house from day one, if someone gives you a house deed or if you are lucky enough to drop it from a chaos chest.
Again... that's a pretty darn big "if". You can also harvest from any harvesting node in the game if you find it and have the appropriate tool. No more "you need X skill points in Y skill to harvest this" crap.
Umm.... wrong. I've tried harvesting certain nodes in DF and was notified I was unable to; I forget the exact message. I had the right tool... the problem was that particular harvesting skill not being high enough. I'm probably forgetting some things, someone can add them later. My point is that in other games most of these things are either completely impossible or considered end-game and therefore artificially limited by your level or some other restriction. DISCLAIMER: I am not suggesting you will experience these things from the first day, just that there are no artificial limitations set in the game. And as a matter of fact, if you join a large active clan there are good odds you will get to see most of these within the first week. You should put "...in theory" at the end of all your examples, then. In which case, DF is no more "open" than most any other MMO I've played... the restrictions almost always come in the form of whether or not your character is powerful/skilled enough to pull of the task at hand and survive... not whether the game allows it or not.
This entire post is right up there with the best (or worst, depending on your perspective) of Tasos' hype.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, from your use of "In may MMOs I've played" I'm going to assume that you have played some great MMOs and (I hope) you are not referring to WoW and similar wannabes that have pretty much set the unofficial golden rule for the genre.
Also, about the harvesting part, there is a failure rate with every node that is dependent on skill level that is reduced when you skill up. But it's just that, a failure rate, in the long run it just means that it will take longer to harvest the node. Other things that come to mind that may have prevented you from harvesting are a depleted node, using the wrong tool or a tool that just broke, trying to harvest with 0 stamina, or failing to aim at the node carefully. Other than that I am aware of no other limitation on harvesting.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not. The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not. I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
You know guys, he has a point there. I mean, technically,there is nothing stopping u from going out and sieging something. But how realistic is that? As a day 3day noob, it takes me sometimes 5-10 hits to kill a goblin. I can't imagine myself killing a vet any time soon. People tend to throw that line around as a counter to WoW, but in WoW, you can technically go to ogrimmar as a level 1 alliance and "lay siege" to it. You won't do squat in that siege, but technically you did it. However, I don't hear Bliz boasting about the ability to siege from day 1, nor do I hear crazy WoW fanboys claiming the same.
If I do 5-10 dmg per hit as a noob, and vets get 30-40, then I would not call my presence at a siege as a participation. It was just that - a presence.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not. The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not. I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
You know guys, he has a point there. I mean, technically,there is nothing stopping u from going out and sieging something. But how realistic is that? As a day 3day noob, it takes me sometimes 5-10 hits to kill a goblin. I can't imagine myself killing a vet any time soon. People tend to throw that line around as a counter to WoW, but in WoW, you can technically go to ogrimmar as a level 1 alliance and "lay siege" to it. You won't do squat in that siege, but technically you did it. However, I don't hear Bliz boasting about the ability to siege from day 1, nor do I hear crazy WoW fanboys claiming the same.
If I do 5-10 dmg per hit as a noob, and vets get 30-40, then I would not call my presence at a siege as a participation. It was just that - a presence.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not.
The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not.
I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
You know guys, he has a point there. I mean, technically,there is nothing stopping u from going out and sieging something. But how realistic is that? As a day 3day noob, it takes me sometimes 5-10 hits to kill a goblin. I can't imagine myself killing a vet any time soon. People tend to throw that line around as a counter to WoW, but in WoW, you can technically go to ogrimmar as a level 1 alliance and "lay siege" to it. You won't do squat in that siege, but technically you did it. However, I don't hear Bliz boasting about the ability to siege from day 1, nor do I hear crazy WoW fanboys claiming the same.
If I do 5-10 dmg per hit as a noob, and vets get 30-40, then I would not call my presence at a siege as a participation. It was just that - a presence.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Beside all that you participate in Darkfall's epic™ sieges and combat and not in something that is lame.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Well, from your use of "In may MMOs I've played" I'm going to assume that you have played some great MMOs and (I hope) you are not referring to WoW and similar wannabes that have pretty much set the unofficial golden rule for the genre.
Also, about the harvesting part, there is a failure rate with every node that is dependent on skill level that is reduced when you skill up. But it's just that, a failure rate, in the long run it just means that it will take longer to harvest the node. Other things that come to mind that may have prevented you from harvesting are a depleted node, using the wrong tool or a tool that just broke, trying to harvest with 0 stamina, or failing to aim at the node carefully. Other than that I am aware of no other limitation on harvesting.
At one point, Wisdom affected harvesting success (I don't know if that's the case now) and certain races were better at harvesting from very beginning due to that. For example, I didn't do well harvesting as a Maharim, but I had much better success as an Alfar.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not. The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not. I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
You know guys, he has a point there. I mean, technically,there is nothing stopping u from going out and sieging something. But how realistic is that? As a day 3day noob, it takes me sometimes 5-10 hits to kill a goblin. I can't imagine myself killing a vet any time soon. People tend to throw that line around as a counter to WoW, but in WoW, you can technically go to ogrimmar as a level 1 alliance and "lay siege" to it. You won't do squat in that siege, but technically you did it. However, I don't hear Bliz boasting about the ability to siege from day 1, nor do I hear crazy WoW fanboys claiming the same.
If I do 5-10 dmg per hit as a noob, and vets get 30-40, then I would not call my presence at a siege as a participation. It was just that - a presence.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Thats true, but you are not answering the point he made. yes, compared to WoW, you have a good chance to survive in the encounter with a vet by hiding, sprinting, etc (in WoW your level 1 toon would have exactly zero chances surviving 1 on 1 with a maxed out toon), but you don't stand a chance to WIN that encounter. In PvP, the point IS winning, not escaping with your life intact. So you see, the way that I want, is less carebear then the way it is right now. I wan't my 3 day old to be able to fight and win against a 3 months old vet (assuming my personal skills are better then his).
Sure, his 3 months efforts should be rewarded by larger arsenal, more skills/spells, more mounts or whatever. But I do not wan't to have less chance of winning a 1 on 1 just because he joined 3 months earlier then I did. All the QQing from people against faster stat increase are the carebears who don't want their godmode taken away from them. I keep bringing Plantside example into this because thats exactly what they had and it worked! You could join PLanetside and kill all those level 25 chars with your level 1 char. You could PvP from not only day 1, but from minute 1. THAT is the true meaning of PvP! Right now, DF is not true PvP, its a PvP through PvE, not as much as WoW, but still too much.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not. The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not. I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
You know guys, he has a point there. I mean, technically,there is nothing stopping u from going out and sieging something. But how realistic is that? As a day 3day noob, it takes me sometimes 5-10 hits to kill a goblin. I can't imagine myself killing a vet any time soon. People tend to throw that line around as a counter to WoW, but in WoW, you can technically go to ogrimmar as a level 1 alliance and "lay siege" to it. You won't do squat in that siege, but technically you did it. However, I don't hear Bliz boasting about the ability to siege from day 1, nor do I hear crazy WoW fanboys claiming the same.
If I do 5-10 dmg per hit as a noob, and vets get 30-40, then I would not call my presence at a siege as a participation. It was just that - a presence.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Thats true, but you are not answering the point he made. yes, compared to WoW, you have a good chance to survive in the encounter with a vet by hiding, sprinting, etc (in WoW your level 1 toon would have exactly zero chances surviving 1 on 1 with a maxed out toon), but you don't stand a chance to WIN that encounter. In PvP, the point IS winning, not escaping with your life intact. So you see, the way that I want, is less carebear then the way it is right now. I wan't my 3 day old to be able to fight and win against a 3 months old vet (assuming my personal skills are better then his).
Sure, his 3 months efforts should be rewarded by larger arsenal, more skills/spells, more mounts or whatever. But I do not wan't to have less chance of winning a 1 on 1 just because he joined 3 months earlier then I did. All the QQing from people against faster stat increase are the carebears who don't want their godmode taken away from them. I keep bringing Plantside example into this because thats exactly what they had and it worked! You could join PLanetside and kill all those level 25 chars with your level 1 char. You could PvP from not only day 1, but from minute 1. THAT is the true meaning of PvP! Right now, DF is not true PvP, its a PvP through PvE, not as much as WoW, but still too much.
I have to repeat myself to you people. Darkfall is a sandbox rpg that has pvp. It is not an arena. It is not counterstrike. Change your mindset or you will never enjoy yourself.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not. The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not. I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
You know guys, he has a point there. I mean, technically,there is nothing stopping u from going out and sieging something. But how realistic is that? As a day 3day noob, it takes me sometimes 5-10 hits to kill a goblin. I can't imagine myself killing a vet any time soon. People tend to throw that line around as a counter to WoW, but in WoW, you can technically go to ogrimmar as a level 1 alliance and "lay siege" to it. You won't do squat in that siege, but technically you did it. However, I don't hear Bliz boasting about the ability to siege from day 1, nor do I hear crazy WoW fanboys claiming the same.
If I do 5-10 dmg per hit as a noob, and vets get 30-40, then I would not call my presence at a siege as a participation. It was just that - a presence.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Thats true, but you are not answering the point he made. yes, compared to WoW, you have a good chance to survive in the encounter with a vet by hiding, sprinting, etc (in WoW your level 1 toon would have exactly zero chances surviving 1 on 1 with a maxed out toon), but you don't stand a chance to WIN that encounter. In PvP, the point IS winning, not escaping with your life intact. So you see, the way that I want, is less carebear then the way it is right now. I wan't my 3 day old to be able to fight and win against a 3 months old vet (assuming my personal skills are better then his).
Sure, his 3 months efforts should be rewarded by larger arsenal, more skills/spells, more mounts or whatever. But I do not wan't to have less chance of winning a 1 on 1 just because he joined 3 months earlier then I did. All the QQing from people against faster stat increase are the carebears who don't want their godmode taken away from them. I keep bringing Plantside example into this because thats exactly what they had and it worked! You could join PLanetside and kill all those level 25 chars with your level 1 char. You could PvP from not only day 1, but from minute 1. THAT is the true meaning of PvP! Right now, DF is not true PvP, its a PvP through PvE, not as much as WoW, but still too much.
I have to repeat myself to you people. Darkfall is a sandbox rpg that has pvp. It is not an arena. It is not counterstrike. Change your mindset or you will never enjoy yourself.
Well, then DF is pretty weak in that department. Very few quests, and those are very generic. The starter city is barren of NPC activity. I do not see a lot of story in the game - I just poped in, got handed 2 quests to kill goblins and get their axes. There is no background, no lore. There is very little RPG in DF. I thought the main catch was the PvP. But now i am confused.
Comments
Darkfall = Bad MMO
Well the thing is MMO's of late have been "dumbed down" into oblivion and it has left a huge emotional disconnect. This game reconnects you and provides you with one hellova emotional experience.
I am playing DF right now and I can tell you that so far it has less variety then that game you hate so much it gives you mini-heart-attacks when you hear its name (im not gonna name it for that reason). DF may be dumbed down, but its still fun to play so fa. I haven't encountered any PKs yet so I dont know how PvP works yet. I am just doing the goblins over and over. It seems that there is nothing else but goblins around... and foxes/deer who do not fight back.
You know there are many more mobs than goblins, right? Venture further out than the range of the guard towers and you'll find them. Travel to another area with a guard tower and along the way you might come across mobs like bears, trolls, skeletons, kobolds, winged snakes, hivekins, zombies, orks, etc. Not to mention other players.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
MMOs have been "Dumbed down".
An intuitive, well made interface = Dumbed down
Lowered Grind = Dumbed down
Equal footing for characters = Dumbed down
No, MMORPGs have not been dumbed down, nor was it ever a good genre. It's just that people are beginning to wake up. Once you strip away the grind; you're left with a shallow shell of a game in which there's barely anything to do. The purists who still cling to this notion that MMORPGs have turned CAREBEAR and SIMPLISTIC simply don't want to see this truth.
They want to waste their lives grinding away at tedious and meaingless tasks.
They want a hard coded number advantage to feed the illusion that they're good at the game they play.
They want that sense of accomplishment back that WoW so horribly stripped away from them. When you sink hours upon hours, months upon months getting a few pixels; you can lord over all those who didn't have the time to get this object, laying waste to them all while spouting stilted one liners such as
Learn 2 play, noob.
lol get some skill.
Put in your time.
Darkfall presented itself as something different. Something that didn't consider a "kill 10 rats" quest as content. A game where progression mattered, but didn't grant an insurmountable advantage. A game that you can approach in your own way and still be successful. It doesn't do any of these things.
Side step the issue all you like, but at the end of the day; the game claims to be something it's not. Nobody cares that you twinked out your RL newbie friend to go participate in a big battle - he's still at a very big disadvantage. About the only thing in your original post that made any sense would canoneer role.
The funniest thing about this game is it's fanbase, and how it reacts to criticism.
Mostly the contradictions and the endless, predictable loops all of the debates seem to have.
New guy: The stat grind sucks, I thought the game wasn't supposed to be like this.
Veteran: WELL ITS NOT THAT BAD I MEAN WOW HAS A LEVEL GRIND TOO. WOW SUCKS THOUGH SINCE IT HAS DUMBED DOWN AND KILLED MMORPGS.
New guy: Well, Im going to make a mage, can I get some.
Veteran: NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS THIS AND THIS, OH YOU NEED 75 in 2h BUT FIRST YOU GOTTA MAKE 10,000 arrows and use them all ON GOBLINS TO BE PVP VIABLE. OH ITS NOT THAT BAD ITLL ONLY TAKE 1 - 2 MONTHS to doing this NON STOP UNTIL YOU CAN MAYBE DO SOME DAMAGE TO SOMEONE.
New guy: But the page says...
Veteran: WELL WOW BUILDS YOU HAVE TO USE SO WHY IS IT BAD HERE?!!
New guy: Ok I'll do all that, but this game sure is boring and I get killed a lot.
Veteran: NO ITS NOT BORING FUCK U CAREBEAR. Join a GOOD CLAN AND BANK EVERY 10 GOLD YOU GET.
New guy: Ok, I joined a clan with some new friends I found in game, but we keep getting killed in town. Joining a clan with new players is actually...
Veteran : NO ITS NOT SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Thats it. An open-ended, skill-based, player-driven ecosystem environment where I actually have to play the game to progress; I'm cancelling.
This is the sound of something going over someone's head.
This is the sound of something going over someone's head.
No, I'm serious. Who wants to play a sandboxy game that removes the artificial restrictions of game-play code that has hampered breadth and depth of player-driven and influenced game-play? Where is that PvE class-restricted game now? *looking*
Nice frankenstein you got there. Masterful attempt at painting an entire fanbase based on the disjointed, exaggerated responses of a few.
And you wonder why the fans of the game get pissy...
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Nice frankenstein you got there. Masterful attempt at painting an entire fanbase based on the disjointed, exaggerated responses of a few.
And you wonder why the fans of the game get pissy...
"Few" you say. Most of the responses can pretty much be boiled down into what I described; sans the caps lock... Most of the time.
You people had no problem with this game when it was being described during the "Tasos' wonderful vision!" phase of development; why do you have a problem with people suggesting things that would actually bring it in line with the hype?
The players who are expressing disappointment with the game are the people who took the home page's and fan word of mouth at face value.
Do I need to dig up that lovely list from launch in which a "disgruntled player" describes the innaccuracies of the feature least in detail?
This is the only part from this post that resembles to have any connection to what I wrote. And the only visible argument in it is that statements like "You can ride and fight on a mount from the first day" or "you can explore the map" or "you can harvest from any node" make absolutely no sense to you.
...
Right...
knock yourself out....dig out that list from almost a year ago, and some major content patches later to make yourself feel better so i can rofl.
This is the only part from this post that resembles to have any connection to what I wrote. And the only visible argument in it is that statements like "You can ride and fight on a mount from the first day" or "you can explore the map" or "you can harvest from any node" make absolutely no sense to you.
...
Right...
The post was more directed at the tsunami of stupid that followed your post, and the typical responses one gets when saying anything bad about the game.
Keep in mind that while the things you described are technically possible; they are both unlikely and highly impractical (Except that ONE role). The average new player isn't going to be invited into VAMP or NEMESIS on his first day. The average new player won't even get to LOOK at any of the actual GAME part of the game until he performs to requisite grinding - and proves himself to the small circle jerk. Amazingly enough - you note this in your post; but the fact remains that you misunderstand what people are complaining about.
knock yourself out....dig out that list from almost a year ago, and some major content patches later to make yourself feel better so i can rofl.
16 hours of your life wasted on Darkfall. How does it feel?
So the second part of this paragraph, is you telling me about the first part of this paragraph in which you are telling me about the things I already said?
Interesting.
And, btw, you are wrong, participating in different sizes of PVP and PVE battles, exploring, harvesting from nodes, riding mounts, or playing as a scout are stuff you will most probably do from the first day if you join a semi-decent clan that is not run by douche-bags. And I have no actual numbers but my guess is that at least half of Darkfall players join a clan that falls within this criteria very soon after joining the game. If your clan did not include you in such events when you first joined and instead ordered you to grind then it was a bad clan and definitely not the standard.
"You people". You clearly have no idea what I've been posting or that I'm a newer player that doesn't give a shit what Tasos' grand visions were. You're really quite quick to lump everyone into neat and tidy groups you can label and hate on.
I don't care what you dig up about the game's pre-launch feature list. The game as it stands now is fun, even for a newb. I'm proof of that.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
"You people". You clearly have no idea what I've been posting or that I'm a newer player that doesn't give a shit what Tasos' grand visions were. You're really quite quick to lump everyone into neat and tidy groups you can label and hate on.
I would have thought this would be clear by now, but I suppose not.
The people I'm addressing with the bulk of my post would be the hardcore playerbase who perpetuate the hyperbole that deceives the average onlooker into believing that Darkfall online is something that it's not.
I'll elaborate further with some examples - There are many people insinuating that Darkfall Online is a game that you can actually play from day one. That you can participate sieges and boat battles right from the start. What they neglect to mention is that as a new player; it is highly unlikely to be involved in any of these activities unless they have some prior connections. If said player has some prior connections they would know what they're getting into.
Furthermore, the new player is not informed of how irrelevant they are on the battlefield.
While I'm on the subject of scaling, Tasos himself (in recent and in past interviews) and Darkfall fans have noted that seniority in the game does not grant invulnerablily. Yet again, I must respectfully say "bullshit".
Earlier this week outside of New Flayed Elf, the Ork capital of Agon, it was business as usual. New players tinkering away at their crafts in their newbie area. Harvesting, doing title quests and just playing the game when suddenly a veteran player attacks. His poorly rendered spell thundering through the immediate area. Me, three newbies and one of what I assume to be mid level player watched this guy decimate a new player with ease as he attempted to escape. From the security of our tower areas, we all started firing mana missles and arrows at the guy. I myself remember having my level 30ish mana missle hit the guy for 7 damage. At one point the guy even stood there and took the hits just to mock us.
Was the above uncommon, you say? The above happened numerous times during the week last week in the Ork area. I've had a naked Dwarf appear out of thin air and start pounding me with a hammer; and I couldn't even RUN from him because he simply ran faster than I did. Is this getting through yet? The majority of the selling points of Darkfall online are pitiful half truths.
I don't care what you dig up about the game's pre-launch feature list. The game as it stands now is fun, even for a newb. I'm proof of that.
YOU enjoy it for the time being; and I'm just estatic for you. But this isn't about something as subjective and abstract as "fun". It's about the truth.
I'm curious. Have you played the game?
As the last scenario pointed out I do own the game, I've owned it for two weeks actually.
My initial impressions were much the same as yours; I liked it - but as a small time passed I came to the realization that this is just shallow, tedious gameplay masked and hidden behind a gargatuan grind: or in other words - business as usual in the MMORPG scene.
Garbage in - Garbage out.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I'm not sure that I'd paint it as intentionally deceiving anyone so much as others are reading into it. You're right that the vast majority of brand spanking new players will NOT participate in a siege or naval battle. I sure didn't. But it's possible. The potential is there. You're not restricted from doing so. I believe that's what some of the more level-headed are trying to get across.
Of course it's not intentional, people are actually this stupid. People have friends invite them into the game, they act as a decoy in some zerg siege and they come here to boast about the experience and how great the game is.
Does it really matter? Would that detract from the fun on day 1? I've had tons of fun in sieges and city defense. I HAVE contributed by healing players and mounts and adding to steady stream of arrows pummeling attackers. Attackers can't tell my arrow won't do that much damage to them. If they see it coming, they dodge. If enough spells and arrows are coming at them, they retreat. This is in a siege or city defense scenario. Small skirmishes and 1v1 are a different matter.
I can't speak for everyone, but the majority of people who go into Darkfall are going to be at least somewhat attuned with how MMORPGs work. As such wouldn't take kindly to being cannon fodder on the field. After all the boasting about how they can contribute from day one, they would soon find themselves filling the role of picking up corpses and if they're lucky; manning a cannon... Should they even be lucky enough to go into the field of battle.
Healing other players isnt a skill you get that early I dont think, so I assume you mean ressurecting. Performing throw away roles is a far cry from the whole "4 newbies can take on a veteran" schtick we've heard so often.
I've never said the game can't be improved or that it's this amazing, perfect utopia that was painted early on or even everything the Web site says. But none of that has stopped me and other newbs like me in my clan from having fun. I've accepted I'm going to get rolled if I try to tangle with an advanced player. It doesn't stop me from making my own fun in the game.
This is irrelevant. I never questioned your enjoyment of the game; I questioned and imbecilic hardcore fanbase and their hyperbole. What do you want me to say here? "NO UR NOT HAVING FUN SCREW U"?
People who share my opinion were sold a game that was supposed to be a sandbox. In which there was more than one way to approach the game and have fun... But there are no choices.
Builds? There are very few viable variations. (Three? Or maybe two)
Economy? It's a chat window.
Advanced AI? If some basic procedures and having monsters spaz out and disobey the rules in the game than yes; advanced ai. (Examples being skeletons running and sidestepping at absurd speeds)and so on.
Truth meaning "your experience with the game"? Because you seem convinced the game can't be enjoyed by newbs. That seems pretty subjective to me. The game CAN be played from day 1, but you're not going to be anywhere near as strong as more advanced players. Nor should you be. Macroers and hackers are another deal though. They should be banned.
No. Not "my experience" the whole "This game has a giant ass stat grind watch out" truth. Incidentally, most if not all of the "advanced" players have macrod or exploited at one point. Even if they're not maxed. Whether it's a bugged mob, afk harvesting, or just plain being a dick with the declaration system. The game is full of holes and douche bags who take advantage of them; all while spouting "Learn to play". Why do I need to grind for 1 - 2 months to MAYBE but PROBABLY NOT stand a chance against unpunished cheaters?
There are some people who can enjoy this; this game's tiny playerbase is proof of that, but if the average player doesn't get to do a great deal of the things advertised; furthermore the other portion of things are activities they can partake in, but highly exagerrated (Mob AI, "Advanced trading" which is just a chat window, "Play it your way" being "Craft 10k arrorws and use them on goblins to be PVP viable")
The grind has been part of MMOs since they began. That said, the stat grind in DFO is nuts. Skills is fine in my opinion.
This game was marketed as being "different" in this regard. It's not.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, from your use of "In may MMOs I've played" I'm going to assume that you have played some great MMOs and (I hope) you are not referring to WoW and similar wannabes that have pretty much set the unofficial golden rule for the genre.
Also, about the harvesting part, there is a failure rate with every node that is dependent on skill level that is reduced when you skill up. But it's just that, a failure rate, in the long run it just means that it will take longer to harvest the node. Other things that come to mind that may have prevented you from harvesting are a depleted node, using the wrong tool or a tool that just broke, trying to harvest with 0 stamina, or failing to aim at the node carefully. Other than that I am aware of no other limitation on harvesting.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Beside all that you participate in Darkfall's epic™ sieges and combat and not in something that is lame.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Well, from your use of "In may MMOs I've played" I'm going to assume that you have played some great MMOs and (I hope) you are not referring to WoW and similar wannabes that have pretty much set the unofficial golden rule for the genre.
Also, about the harvesting part, there is a failure rate with every node that is dependent on skill level that is reduced when you skill up. But it's just that, a failure rate, in the long run it just means that it will take longer to harvest the node. Other things that come to mind that may have prevented you from harvesting are a depleted node, using the wrong tool or a tool that just broke, trying to harvest with 0 stamina, or failing to aim at the node carefully. Other than that I am aware of no other limitation on harvesting.
At one point, Wisdom affected harvesting success (I don't know if that's the case now) and certain races were better at harvesting from very beginning due to that. For example, I didn't do well harvesting as a Maharim, but I had much better success as an Alfar.
~Ripper
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Thats true, but you are not answering the point he made. yes, compared to WoW, you have a good chance to survive in the encounter with a vet by hiding, sprinting, etc (in WoW your level 1 toon would have exactly zero chances surviving 1 on 1 with a maxed out toon), but you don't stand a chance to WIN that encounter. In PvP, the point IS winning, not escaping with your life intact. So you see, the way that I want, is less carebear then the way it is right now. I wan't my 3 day old to be able to fight and win against a 3 months old vet (assuming my personal skills are better then his).
Sure, his 3 months efforts should be rewarded by larger arsenal, more skills/spells, more mounts or whatever. But I do not wan't to have less chance of winning a 1 on 1 just because he joined 3 months earlier then I did. All the QQing from people against faster stat increase are the carebears who don't want their godmode taken away from them. I keep bringing Plantside example into this because thats exactly what they had and it worked! You could join PLanetside and kill all those level 25 chars with your level 1 char. You could PvP from not only day 1, but from minute 1. THAT is the true meaning of PvP! Right now, DF is not true PvP, its a PvP through PvE, not as much as WoW, but still too much.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Thats true, but you are not answering the point he made. yes, compared to WoW, you have a good chance to survive in the encounter with a vet by hiding, sprinting, etc (in WoW your level 1 toon would have exactly zero chances surviving 1 on 1 with a maxed out toon), but you don't stand a chance to WIN that encounter. In PvP, the point IS winning, not escaping with your life intact. So you see, the way that I want, is less carebear then the way it is right now. I wan't my 3 day old to be able to fight and win against a 3 months old vet (assuming my personal skills are better then his).
Sure, his 3 months efforts should be rewarded by larger arsenal, more skills/spells, more mounts or whatever. But I do not wan't to have less chance of winning a 1 on 1 just because he joined 3 months earlier then I did. All the QQing from people against faster stat increase are the carebears who don't want their godmode taken away from them. I keep bringing Plantside example into this because thats exactly what they had and it worked! You could join PLanetside and kill all those level 25 chars with your level 1 char. You could PvP from not only day 1, but from minute 1. THAT is the true meaning of PvP! Right now, DF is not true PvP, its a PvP through PvE, not as much as WoW, but still too much.
I have to repeat myself to you people. Darkfall is a sandbox rpg that has pvp. It is not an arena. It is not counterstrike. Change your mindset or you will never enjoy yourself.
The difference being that in Darkfall 5-10 damage is significantly more damage to a player with 300 hp compared to WoW where you will deal 0-1 damage to somebody with thousands of hp.
Plus in Darkfall it's much easier to survive, you can take cover, hide, evade or turtle up with your shield. And even without that, even a naked noob will not die by a direct hit from a strong player (damage caps), whereas in WoW, if someone targets you or you are caught within a single AOE blast you are good as dead.
And that's without mentioning other useful roles a noob can assume in a siege like handling siege weapons (hammers/cannons/{the grenade-thingies-whose-name-I-forget) as well as scouting which is much more viable and more important than most other games (due to lack of invisibility skill+incredible viewing disance).
Thats true, but you are not answering the point he made. yes, compared to WoW, you have a good chance to survive in the encounter with a vet by hiding, sprinting, etc (in WoW your level 1 toon would have exactly zero chances surviving 1 on 1 with a maxed out toon), but you don't stand a chance to WIN that encounter. In PvP, the point IS winning, not escaping with your life intact. So you see, the way that I want, is less carebear then the way it is right now. I wan't my 3 day old to be able to fight and win against a 3 months old vet (assuming my personal skills are better then his).
Sure, his 3 months efforts should be rewarded by larger arsenal, more skills/spells, more mounts or whatever. But I do not wan't to have less chance of winning a 1 on 1 just because he joined 3 months earlier then I did. All the QQing from people against faster stat increase are the carebears who don't want their godmode taken away from them. I keep bringing Plantside example into this because thats exactly what they had and it worked! You could join PLanetside and kill all those level 25 chars with your level 1 char. You could PvP from not only day 1, but from minute 1. THAT is the true meaning of PvP! Right now, DF is not true PvP, its a PvP through PvE, not as much as WoW, but still too much.
I have to repeat myself to you people. Darkfall is a sandbox rpg that has pvp. It is not an arena. It is not counterstrike. Change your mindset or you will never enjoy yourself.
Well, then DF is pretty weak in that department. Very few quests, and those are very generic. The starter city is barren of NPC activity. I do not see a lot of story in the game - I just poped in, got handed 2 quests to kill goblins and get their axes. There is no background, no lore. There is very little RPG in DF. I thought the main catch was the PvP. But now i am confused.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.