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Is the MMo genre dying because of player expectations?
daylight01
Member Posts: 2,250
I really have to ask this.
When ever a new game gets released or comes into open beta it does not get looked on for what it is or what it can become,it is looked on compared to other games that maybe the player is used to and never care about how the game was 3 years ago or more on release.
I see quite a few people ask just as the game is about to be released "how is the end game",sorry but I find this crazy,maybe just the times we live in.
I remember when you did not care about end game or indeed how much loot we could get.I know things move on but has this genre maybe moved on to quickly and killed itself?
Really for a company to release an mmo that so many players want it would have to be 4 years in making and maybe 4 years in beta ...we all know that wont work but at the moment that seems to be what alot of players are asking for.
It does worry me that at some point the devs will just turn to mindless fps games as the mmo crowd are just so fickle and not worth the cash and time.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
Comments
clearly...it's the customer's fault.
That is a line of thinking I just can't get behind. There is certainly one game out there that demonstrates the genre is not dead. I think, more then anything, marketing has not caught up with the product. Part of having something to sell is the fact you need to manage expectations for that product. A lot of shops are still putting a lot of effort into hype, regardless of whether it matches up with the actual product in some cases, and burning out potential customers before there is even a chance to buy.
Now, hype aside, there is the fact that very few games seem to have a stable launch. I would think that your early adopters are likely to become the most invested in a game and, therefore, could be your best marketers. A bad launch alienates them off the bat. Why is a rocky launch something we should come to expect? While a company might correct those initial issues, the word of mouth tends to linger...
These problems are not specific to indie devs or big money shops, but they are two very prominent complaints that surface repeatedly. I suppose, if player expectations are that they are buying the product that was advertised and that it will work properly when they buy it, then absolutely, customer expectations are killing just about everything.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
d
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MMOs are just toddlers still.
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Well, when you still don't have a real-time combat system where you can manually block/attack and 1-2 hits often leads to your death/victory than I would say yes, I as a player am expecting too much.
or am I?..
I'm going to go with partially, yes. Part of it is the market over pandering to player expectations, and the other part is players expecting completely unreasonable things half the time, or expecting them from a game that never wanted to promise them in the first place. Part of it is that everyone seems to think that ALL mmos should cater to them and what THEY think it should be. Advertise a PvE centered MMO, and you'll still have people screaming years down the line how the game is god awful and sucks because the PvP is "tacked on.", rather than finding say another MMO that meets their needs.
Marketing hype and the need to fanboy for certain games/companies, evident even in this thread, is another knife in the chest. Along with the extreme fear to do their own god damn thing instead of copying another game and then tweaking the IP slightly. In the old days each MMO that came out had a completely different feel from the other. Now, they all feel exactly the same, because for the most part, they are.
It's not the only contributing factor, but it would be a lie to say that player expectations aren't playing a part. Hell, some of the things players "expect" from an MMO would turn it into an entirely different but currently existing genre if they were to actually follow through with them. 90% of the blowhard "skillz" arena PvP players REALLY want to be playing a game that came out in the early 90s, RUNE, which is basically a FPS with swords.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
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Nah, you're just someone who seems to have only played mainstream MMOs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Ok so you guys say it is the devs fault.
Ok fair enough but in the last what? 4 or 5 years every mmo that has released has been bad?
although pre-wow almost every mmo released in the same state but was given the chance to grow with the players and content and quite a few of them are still running,though if you look at recent releases they are either dead or on life support,but we blame that all on lazy devs?.....come on guys!
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
MMO Genre is dieing because no one is putting effort into their game anymore and just copying ideas that have been copied already.
The age of release it early, not finished, crap copies, buggy, laggy ect, ect should be dead but it is not. Actually I think the customers are speaking loud and clear but the developers have yet to listen.
I don't see how people can say it's dead or dying as more and more of these games are being made and more and more peoplee are playing them.
The genre might be "dead" to players who have very specific expectations that are not being satisfied but compared to the earliest of these gams to now it seems that there is quite some time to go in the evolution of the genre.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Probably because Aion has been the only recent MMORPG to release that is making enough revenue to afford to keep their game up.
The problem is in other genre's, games have roughly remained the same for years. While remaining viable products, for their intended audience. With MMO's it just doesn't work that way, which says that they aren't going to live as they are for very much longer. Something will have to change, but what?
That's the 100 million dollar question, that has yet to be answered. Nothing that closely resembles WOWs mechanics is going to be the next blockbuster MMO. It's just been done far to long by to many players, Maybe it relates to the fact we spend so much time playing one MMO, the mechanics just grow stale before we even realize it. SO that next game just doesn't excite what so ever.
FPS as an example they can borrow mechanics far into the future, the game play still remains fun. It's the chore aspect that seperates the MMO form other games IMO. People are just growing tired of mindless chores within a game, these games need real content and real mechanics, and less wack-a-mole fetch my bread B.S.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sorry mate maybe I should have said dying.
I am happy enough as I will be playing STO but look at this year,there is STO and FF after that there is no AAA title,I already hear people saying they are looking to 2011 for there mmo,if Star wars does not work out I guess they are on to 2012.
I just feel gamers do not give the game the time some should be given...maybe it is just me that grew up with the ZX81 and pong speaking here.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
Its not just the MMO genre. All games on all platforms are getting crap reviews, and crap sales all because a few people said "The first one was better," or "Game X has a lot more to do." When people give good games bad reviews, people listen. I work for a game retailer, and when someone comes in and asks if people like this game, they are completely relying on me to tell them if they should buy it. No genre is safe from the world's trolls. No game is safe from the over expecting of people.
I think I explained it as a combination of marketing as well as developers/publishers. It has nothing to do with whether the devs are lazy or not. Might be they are pushed to release due to budget constraints, but that is a product of poor project management or unrealistic expectations of investors.
I'm not really sure what you are looking for though. I mean, your premise seems to be that the customer is the problem. No industry can survive for long with the belief that those that pay them are the problem.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I agree a lot with what you say, but MMOs by definition do not really lean themselves towards competition. The games gradually change over time through patches and updates, since they are expected to be more like a story, than 10 hour FPS game.
I think the bigger problem is why do indie companies not follow CCP's lead.
Probably because Aion has been the only recent MMORPG to release that is making enough revenue to afford to keep their game up.
I don't have any numbers indicating that some of the others are not at least paying the bills.
Conan seems to still be there. It doesn't have the numbers it started but I don't have any evidence that its current sub base can't keep the lights on.
Does anyone have actual quarterly numbers for champions?
It seems too soon to tell for darkfall but that games seems to be doing fine. Too soon to tell for fallen earth.
Lotro seems to be doing fine. DDO is doing far better than it did a year ago.
City of Heroes still has a devoted playerbase.
EQ 2 still seems to be going strong.
I realize some of these are going back a bit but I can't seem to recall off the top of my head all the games that released recently. I don't really think there were that many.
And there are many games coming down the pipeline.
If the genre was indeed dead there wouldn't be as many games in development.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Probably because Aion has been the only recent MMORPG to release that is making enough revenue to afford to keep their game up.
I don't have any numbers indicating that some of the others are not at least paying the bills.
Conan seems to still be there. It doesn't have the numbers it started but I don't have any evidence that its current sub base can't keep the lights on.
Does anyone have actual quarterly numbers for champions?
It seems too soon to tell for darkfall but that games seems to be doing fine. Too soon to tell for fallen earth.
Lotro seems to be doing fine. DDO is doing far better than it did a year ago.
City of Heroes still has a devoted playerbase.
EQ 2 still seems to be going strong.
I realize some of these are going back a bit but I can't seem to recall off the top of my head all the games that released recently. I don't really think there were that many.
And there are many games coming down the pipeline.
If the genre was indeed dead there wouldn't be as many games in development.
Most of the games you mentioned are well over 4-5 years old.
AOC fired some of their staff recently and are constantly merging servers.
Warhammer dumped what, 30% or so of their staff just 2 months ago?
That is my worry...we are growing more and more fickle with every release,how long till the devs give up and use there skill for other game type's?
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
Sorry mate maybe I should have said dying.
I am happy enough as I will be playing STO but look at this year,there is STO and FF after that there is no AAA title,I already hear people saying they are looking to 2011 for there mmo,if Star wars does not work out I guess they are on to 2012.
I just feel gamers do not give the game the time some should be given...maybe it is just me that grew up with the ZX81 and pong speaking here.
My guess is that for the heavy hitters that are coming down the pipeline they realize that they need to release in far better condition than some of the previously released games.
People were complaining about Aion taking too long (3 years and change in development, not long at all!) but with how complicated these games seem to be to make and the greater expectations of players, it woudln't surprise me if the dev was extended.
Of course, given the price tag of these things it really is only going to be big studios or indy studios who will try to be different even if they can't match the "bang" of the larger studios.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
THIS.
MMO market is a teenager, Man, Computer Science itselft is a teenager, and to be dying you gotta see less and less over the years, not more and more games launching as we are seeing, just beacuse nothing is pleasing you (not me either) dont mean its dying.
However too much expectations creates a hype for something thats not real, especialy in our current market wich is flooded by other kind of gamers, mostly fps ones, for example, that want something else that is not an mmo, so the result is that mmo market is trying to please all that diferent playing styles and delivering a product that pleases none of them.
So give it time so the market can settle games to acomodate all those playstyles and dont create too much expectation from games. FORGET the words: new, revolutionary, polished.
my 2cent, thanks for the attention.
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For whomever replied to my post, I would appreciate you listing said games. As far as I know Age of Chivalry is the only game that comes close and that isnt a MMO.
Anyways, what I was trying to get across is that its not player expectation, just lazy boring idea's that get regurgitated.
That's true, some are older but they are still going. As I mentioned I can't seem to recall "many" released games.
But look what's coming up:
Star Wars
WoW's new game
Secret World
Tera
Blade and Soul
It's rumored that Sony is working on an Everquest type title
DC Universe, Global Agenda, Guild Wars 2, and Torchlight off of the top of my head.
and, come to think of it, Black Prophecy.
I know there is Stargate Worlds but "we'll see". I think that was put on the back burner.
Oh, and Curt Schilling's mmo.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So what? I mean, if they are putting out games people aren't enjoying, do you really think their "skills" are going to get them very far elsewhere?
Where there is a dollar bill, someone will step in and fill the vacancy. We see that now with more and more indie shops releasing games targeted at more specific audiences. Why does the genre need another "blockbuster" to be successful. Why doesn't the principle of diversification in the market place apply here? If there are 100 financially viable games in the market place, isn't that more appealing then 3 goliaths?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Lets simplify this into a logical and true statement.
PLAYERS EXPECT QUALITY. Its simple. So, if "GAME X" = Quality which is == False, then you have a problem.
So then this begs the question... what is Quality?
Quality is the combination of (in this context) smart and strong game design which also include a future and a budget that can achieve the future of progression within the design.
A game like WoW can come out with the same or worse graphics, and because of the design, it will still do well.
Current Gen mmorpgs are missing the quality. The Publishers are not investing the right kind of money into the project and there are bad designers on board, perhaps even with programmers that are also not very good. Basically you need and A cast team willing to create a good game despite the market research (which would indicate all games should be short, small and stupid for the broad audience).
So in closing... no. The genre isnt slowing down due to player expectations, but rather the lack of good games coming out. Blame the publishers and the development studios both. They need to learn from Blizzard, which so far, has done the best out of any company pumping out game that are ALWAYS a success.