It does seem that every new mmo player that looks at a new game is asking "why do you not have this...wow did..
"why did you not have this lotro did".."why did you not have this eve has it"
You see what I am getting at?
We as a group are demanding a game releases with everything not only that it promised but what we want,it was never like this before...we want an MMO to release with everything it has and will ever have to offer.....tell me this is not true,then tell me as a group we have not grown more fickle.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
The MMO genre is not "dead." There are tons of mmos that have players. I'm not saying that I like any of them, but it's so asinine to use these stupid memes when they don't even apply. Ahem, I mean, fail topic is failz.
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Just to add to what I said in the OP. It does seem that every new mmo player that looks at a new game is asking "why do you not have this...wow did..
"why did you not have this lotro did".."why did you not have this eve has it" You see what I am getting at? We as a group are demanding a game releases with everything not only that it promised but what we want,it was never like this before...we want an MMO to release with everything it has and will ever have to offer.....tell me this is not true,then tell me as a group we have grown more fickle.
If I buy a TV, I compare it to previous TVs I bought to see whether it has the features I want. If I am going to a resteraunt, I generally find one that serves the type of food I like. This is natural behavior and not something exclusive to MMOs.
Saying "we as a group", is quite a generalization though. When LoTRO released, I recall people speaking pretty postiively about the product and the release. When AoC released, I recall people complaining about features on the printed box that they did not see in the actual game. LoTRO, by all accounts, has managed to maintain a healthy game while AoC has really, just recently, started to recover and attract customers.
As far as wanting MMOs to release complete, I think you are wrong there. People generally want MMOs to release in a working state without significant/game-breaking bugs, and with the features that the game was sold as including.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
There are more MMORPG players than ever, so the only possible angle someone could take for calling the MMO market "dead" would be if you don't consider existing MMORPGs to be MMOs.
[Mod Edit]
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Far from dead but it isn't doing that good either at the moment. Since the release of WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers so to speak. It has all been mediocraty at best and its been disappointing as well. Sure, there have been some small suceess with perhaps Lotro and Aion but at the overall outlook of things it has been grade C at best. In 2010 I see it being no better as I see FFXIV being the only good mmo being released this year. Players should keep having high expectations because they are paying dearly with their walltes for averages mmos in the hope that their current mmo will get better but unfortunately it never does get better.
Just to add to what I said in the OP. It does seem that every new mmo player that looks at a new game is asking "why do you not have this...wow did..
"why did you not have this lotro did".."why did you not have this eve has it" You see what I am getting at? We as a group are demanding a game releases with everything not only that it promised but what we want,it was never like this before...we want an MMO to release with everything it has and will ever have to offer.....tell me this is not true,then tell me as a group we have not grown more fickle.
Players are demanding these due to the poorly designed game mechanics. As an example, if a developer decides not to have " instant warping ", then they should at least design the game to provide some sort of entertainment during travel.
Originally posted by mklinic clearly...it's the customer's fault.
This statement epitomizes the whole problem. The expectation should be can you as a player, play within the design of the game. What we have now are gamers that want games designed around their comfort level, attention span and capabilities. What happened to playing the game within the boundaries and design of that game? The skill, strategy and ingenuity comes from the player who can learn, adapt as well as improve based on the tools they are given.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Originally posted by caalem MMO Genre is dieing because no one is putting effort into their game anymore and just copying ideas that have been copied already.
A majority of the problem is developers trying to please everyone. Its not impossible to make a substantive game, its impossible when you try to tweak the game to accommodate each individuals idea, play skill and capabilities.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
MMO Genre is dieing because no one is putting effort into their game anymore and just copying ideas that have been copied already.
A majority of the problem is developers trying to please everyone. Its not impossible to make a substantive game, its impossible when you try to tweak the game to accommodate each individuals idea, play skill and capabilities.
Eggsactly. It's like they are trying to bridge players from 12 to 50 years old, compliment both genders, and all the while trying to nail the PvP/PvE divide between players by throwing mediocre versions of each at people. I think ZP said it best when he said "MMO developers are trying to wank off too many people at once and giving a mediocre experience to those in the circle-jerk". It was something like that anyway...
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Ok so you guys say it is the devs fault. Ok fair enough but in the last what? 4 or 5 years every mmo that has released has been bad? although pre-wow almost every mmo released in the same state but was given the chance to grow with the players and content and quite a few of them are still running,though if you look at recent releases they are either dead or on life support,but we blame that all on lazy devs?.....come on guys!
In terms gameplay MMORPGs are devolving, and in terms of graphics they get prettier and prettier, I think that's a pretty good reason modern MMORPGs are failing.
Who can remember discovering Everquest 1 back in 1999? or Uo or Meridian 59 when they first started?
I certainly can and I remember the excitement of finding these games after playing years of platformers or RPG's, to be able to find a living breathing game that had thousands of other like minded players within the same world as me, all with the sole purpose of adventuring and having fun.
Then ofc after a year or 2 you grew bored with that game and wanted something else, but wait a minute there isn't anything else, thats it for the MMO genre, 1 3D title a 2D isometric and a graphic MUD to choose from, other than that you've got rumour and speculation about whats being developed, but no other MMO's out there to try, so you either stick with what you had or you went cold turkey and quit altogether.
The devs knew all of this and the old saying "Treat them mean keep them Keen" was very apt at this period of MMO history, the Devs had little regard for it's player base due to the competition, there wasn't any, where else would your complaining customers go, nowhere, and they knew it, no matter how poor CS was, no matter what bugs where left unfixed, no matter there wasn't huge content updates you knew there just wasn't any other MMO out there to jump to.
Now move forward to the present and what do we have, the power is in our hands, no longer do the Devs hold sway over our wallets, no longer do we suffer in silence when things go wrong, we vote with our feet and move along pretty damn quickly when things aren't as we expect or want them to be.
I much prefer the way things are know to what they used to be, and the Devs should never forget that if they can't provide a product that is capable of providing the things they have promised then they are doomed to crash and burn under the weight of negativity from the player base, the past saw the power in the hands of the devs, and they absused it.
The number of people playing MMOs is increasing. The number of profitable MMOs (i.e. the ones that don't shut down) is increasing. The genre isn't dead. It also isn't dying.
To suggest otherwise is to be in denial or ignorance of the readily available evidence.
What the genre is doing, is changing.
Some MMO veterans/early adopters are still stuck in the mindset that an MMO can last forever. It's "ok" if they release buggy and incomplete because all MMOs do. We should support the fledgling MMO and give it time to grow and mature into a rich and deep virtual world rather than expecting an enjoyable game experience from day one.
Um, why?
The playerbase is changing. The new generation of the online community is radically different than the previous one 10-15 years ago. You can blame this on the prevalence of cheap, affordable internet .. but it's a simple truth that the web is no longer the bastion and sanctuary of nerds.
Add to that, UO was 12+ years ago .. many of us "veterans" have also changed with the times.
The only thing that most of us care about these days is that an MMO is fun. If it's not fun, there are plenty of other fun things for us to spend our time and money on.
We don't stick to a bad product anymore. There's too much competition in the market for us to have to; if we're not having fun, we can just game-hop to the next shiny. It's a buyers market.
So yeah, it's the developers fault. They need to realise that if they want to retain their playerbase, they need to not only provide their playerbase with a constant source of fun .. but that it has to be as good as or better than existing products on the market.
Releasing buggy crap .. leaving huge content holes and expecting people to grind .. not bothering to optimize their game engine and expecting players to put up with memory leaks and generally rubbish performance .. few self-respecting players are going to pump money into that crap.
I buy most new AAA MMOs; and I generally enjoy the "honeymoon" for a month or two, but if a developer wants my subscription past the first few months, they're gonna have to work to keep it.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I really have to ask this. When ever a new game gets released or comes into open beta it does not get looked on for what it is or what it can become,it is looked on compared to other games that maybe the player is used to and never care about how the game was 3 years ago or more on release. I see quite a few people ask just as the game is about to be released "how is the end game",sorry but I find this crazy,maybe just the times we live in. Fully agree with what you said above here, the amount of times I entered/tested/played a new MMORPG there is a very loud group who often speaks about "how's end game like" I also don't get that. I remember when you did not care about end game or indeed how much loot we could get.I know things move on but has this genre maybe moved on to quickly and killed itself? I still don't care about that, I care what it is I can actuall play and will eventually find out how the game might be when I reache lvl cap, but lvl cap is the least of my worries. It is all about what is delivered for me to play with and definitly not what is promised, kinda to experianced with games in this genre that I don't feel I should hold up on any promises made but should always play what is given. Really for a company to release an mmo that so many players want it would have to be 4 years in making and maybe 4 years in beta ...we all know that wont work but at the moment that seems to be what alot of players are asking for. Well I don't agree on a 4y beta testing, but would say there should be allot more internal testing before a game is released to it's public, even before a beta will come in, beta's worked fine when technolgy wasn't as good as it is today and feel developers should be able to test things very well even without public, obvious there is a need for testing things with large groups of people. But don't feel that should take another 4years to do so. Not with current tech at our hands. It does worry me that at some point the devs will just turn to mindless fps games as the mmo crowd are just so fickle and not worth the cash and time. However I can relate to this as I also have my worries about the current gen. of people coming into this genre, I mean I play Fallen Earth, but the amount of kinda and sorry to say stupid questions I see constantly seems that players don't want to explore possibility's, they do not want to discover things by themselfs or with friends, instead they ask for almost ALL basics that they could have learned by simple playing the game instead they choose to ask every single basic question as if we need to hold their hands and if the game or the players don't hold their hands the game sucks to them, which really would one day turn this genre into just another online game like we already have in the multiplayer area. So yeah I blame a large portion of current players in this genre for turning these games into merly handholding games, shame sometimes I really feel we the minority don't have a say in anything anymore, thankfully there are company's like CCP and Icarus and sure a few more that actualy try and do things differently, but still many players do ruin portion of this industry. Not saying all those company's are doing a great job, just saying there is more blame to be found with the majority of people that came into this genre. Overall we all know that gamecompany's/developers wil try to please the larger part of the gaming community and a simply fact is to many of these people have far to high hopes, for some reason seem to often believe in promises instead of actually trying to play what is given and so on...... But I do not agree with your choice of topic title as this genre is far from dead regardless how games might turn out for me.
the genre can't be dead because of player expectations. players will always settle for the option that best fits their taste while crying that it's not good enough.
Always? Funny, I'm not settling for anything, there are no MMOs I want to play, therefore I'm not playing any. There seem to be a lot of people around the forums who are doing exactly the same thing. I'm not going to settle for anything less than what I want to play. If that means I never play an MMO ever again, I'm fine with that.
A game like WoW can come out with the same or worse graphics, and because of the design, it will still do well.
Not if it was released the same way as when WoW was released back then.
People will burn it to the ground now
A launch has nothing to do with the actual design of the game, as that shows. Meaning, if a good game has a rough launch, because its a good game it will still do well.
That said, I didnt think WoW's launch was that bad. In fact, after beta and into retail i saw no major issues on the server I played on. A small amount of downtime experienced was nothing other than a minor annoyance.
A launch has nothing to do with the actual design of the game, as that shows. Meaning, if a good game has a rough launch, because its a good game it will still do well.
That said, I didnt think WoW's launch was that bad. In fact, after beta and into retail i saw no major issues on the server I played on. A small amount of downtime experienced was nothing other than a minor annoyance.
I was on about the lack of content not about wows launch.
mmo are not dying and far from it. i would say opposite. each year, more mmos is born than dies. each year there is more players of this genre (cant support it with numbers, just a feeling).
your problem is, players now are spread too much within hundred or so mmos. 4 years ago they all sticked to less than 10 titles i guess.
and not every title has bad launch. Runes of Magic is good example of the game that was impressive for the start (translations aside)
Playing: Rohan Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
OP should speak for himself. My expectations for a new MMO are pretty low these days and so far my expectations have been met.
WoW has raised the bar high.
The question you find yourself asking when you start a new MMO is: i'm paying $15 a month for this. it's not as fun as WoW, why am I playing it? And like thousands of others, I return to WoW.
I've become a bit jaded about new releases. I wait for free trials.
Marketers hype a game, raising expectations that never can be met. WAR and AoC are two good examples of this. I think they do this to increase box sales. The expectations are so high that people can't help but be disappointed.
A launch has nothing to do with the actual design of the game, as that shows. Meaning, if a good game has a rough launch, because its a good game it will still do well.
That said, I didnt think WoW's launch was that bad. In fact, after beta and into retail i saw no major issues on the server I played on. A small amount of downtime experienced was nothing other than a minor annoyance.
I was on about the lack of content not about wows launch.
Lack of content? I do not recall a lack of content at all. In fact, there was always something for me to do. At the time the druid I played was perhaps one of the most geared out end game characters on the server. World pvp was fun and fresh, rare drops were actually rare and very few people had purples back in the day, much less blues.
I do have to admit though that Blizzard's content comes too slow for the way they designed the game however, more focus on dynamic pvp elements and goals would go a long way. I still remember when Blizzard was planning on player and guild housing, you can see some of the blocked off instances in the major cities like StormWind where it was going to be accessed. (unless they took it out in the past few years.)
Pretty much. Players expect good games and it's been made clear that such a task is too hard for the developers to overcome, so hopefully the players soon realize that we'll only be getting shitty titles for all eternity.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The recent problems in the mmo industry are because companies are putting a lack of effort into their product. There are too many games out there now in a finished state for companies to expect the majority of players to stick around and pay to finish beta testing their game. There have also been launches, albeit few, that have shown a game can be launched without having an exorbitant amount of issues for a player to deal with. In addition, there have been some companies, albeit few, that had the customer support and service in place when their game launched so when major problems did occur they were able to handle them to an extent that appeased most players.
This is why games like WoW and LotR are successful and other games like Warhammer and AoC are barley hanging on. Companies would do themselves some good to look at how Blizzard and Turbine (with Rings mind you...DDO was a mess but seems like they learned from that endeavor). Instead, they continue to ignore what companies have done before them and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.
It's really ridiculous any more. There is no excuse for these companies to continue making the same repeated mistakes yet they ignore what has happened before them and seem to have no problem with shooting themselves repeatedly in the foot.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I concur. Years back, the MMO was an aqcuired taste. As it has become mainstream, game developers are trying out a huge variety of formulas in an attempt to appease a much larger customer base. This is an experimental phase, I believe. Eventually, some will get it just right. One thing I'm certain of is that future gaming consoles will be involved, for better or for worse.
High player expectations are actually what's keeping this genre alive. Developer greed is what's killing it. Many of them claim to have all this great stuff in game, they give away promotions and bonuses for spending a ton of money before the game is even released. They bank on box sales because retention costs too much time and money. I just wish the players would hurry up and get a clue and stop feeding these monsters.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The recent problems in the mmo industry are because companies are putting a lack of effort into their product. There are too many games out there now in a finished state for companies to expect the majority of players to stick around and pay to finish beta testing their game. There have also been launches, albeit few, that have shown a game can be launched without having an exorbitant amount of issues for a player to deal with. In addition, there have been some companies, albeit few, that had the customer support and service in place when their game launched so when major problems did occur they were able to handle them to an extent that appeased most players.
This is why games like WoW and LotR are successful and other games like Warhammer and AoC are barley hanging on. Companies would do themselves some good to look at how Blizzard and Turbine (with Rings mind you...DDO was a mess but seems like they learned from that endeavor). Instead, they continue to ignore what companies have done before them and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.
It's really ridiculous any more. There is no excuse for these companies to continue making the same repeated mistakes yet they ignore what has happened before them and seem to have no problem with shooting themselves repeatedly in the foot.
I don't think they are mistakes. For the most part, they know exactly what they are doing. It's too bad the players are too desperate to notice.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
Just to add to what I said in the OP.
It does seem that every new mmo player that looks at a new game is asking "why do you not have this...wow did..
"why did you not have this lotro did".."why did you not have this eve has it"
You see what I am getting at?
We as a group are demanding a game releases with everything not only that it promised but what we want,it was never like this before...we want an MMO to release with everything it has and will ever have to offer.....tell me this is not true,then tell me as a group we have not grown more fickle.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
The MMO genre is not "dead." There are tons of mmos that have players. I'm not saying that I like any of them, but it's so asinine to use these stupid memes when they don't even apply. Ahem, I mean, fail topic is failz.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
If I buy a TV, I compare it to previous TVs I bought to see whether it has the features I want. If I am going to a resteraunt, I generally find one that serves the type of food I like. This is natural behavior and not something exclusive to MMOs.
Saying "we as a group", is quite a generalization though. When LoTRO released, I recall people speaking pretty postiively about the product and the release. When AoC released, I recall people complaining about features on the printed box that they did not see in the actual game. LoTRO, by all accounts, has managed to maintain a healthy game while AoC has really, just recently, started to recover and attract customers.
As far as wanting MMOs to release complete, I think you are wrong there. People generally want MMOs to release in a working state without significant/game-breaking bugs, and with the features that the game was sold as including.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
There are more MMORPG players than ever, so the only possible angle someone could take for calling the MMO market "dead" would be if you don't consider existing MMORPGs to be MMOs.
[Mod Edit]
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Far from dead but it isn't doing that good either at the moment. Since the release of WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers so to speak. It has all been mediocraty at best and its been disappointing as well. Sure, there have been some small suceess with perhaps Lotro and Aion but at the overall outlook of things it has been grade C at best. In 2010 I see it being no better as I see FFXIV being the only good mmo being released this year. Players should keep having high expectations because they are paying dearly with their walltes for averages mmos in the hope that their current mmo will get better but unfortunately it never does get better.
Players are demanding these due to the poorly designed game mechanics. As an example, if a developer decides not to have " instant warping ", then they should at least design the game to provide some sort of entertainment during travel.
This statement epitomizes the whole problem. The expectation should be can you as a player, play within the design of the game. What we have now are gamers that want games designed around their comfort level, attention span and capabilities. What happened to playing the game within the boundaries and design of that game? The skill, strategy and ingenuity comes from the player who can learn, adapt as well as improve based on the tools they are given.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
A majority of the problem is developers trying to please everyone. Its not impossible to make a substantive game, its impossible when you try to tweak the game to accommodate each individuals idea, play skill and capabilities.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
A majority of the problem is developers trying to please everyone. Its not impossible to make a substantive game, its impossible when you try to tweak the game to accommodate each individuals idea, play skill and capabilities.
Eggsactly. It's like they are trying to bridge players from 12 to 50 years old, compliment both genders, and all the while trying to nail the PvP/PvE divide between players by throwing mediocre versions of each at people. I think ZP said it best when he said "MMO developers are trying to wank off too many people at once and giving a mediocre experience to those in the circle-jerk". It was something like that anyway...
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
In terms gameplay MMORPGs are devolving, and in terms of graphics they get prettier and prettier, I think that's a pretty good reason modern MMORPGs are failing.
Who can remember discovering Everquest 1 back in 1999? or Uo or Meridian 59 when they first started?
I certainly can and I remember the excitement of finding these games after playing years of platformers or RPG's, to be able to find a living breathing game that had thousands of other like minded players within the same world as me, all with the sole purpose of adventuring and having fun.
Then ofc after a year or 2 you grew bored with that game and wanted something else, but wait a minute there isn't anything else, thats it for the MMO genre, 1 3D title a 2D isometric and a graphic MUD to choose from, other than that you've got rumour and speculation about whats being developed, but no other MMO's out there to try, so you either stick with what you had or you went cold turkey and quit altogether.
The devs knew all of this and the old saying "Treat them mean keep them Keen" was very apt at this period of MMO history, the Devs had little regard for it's player base due to the competition, there wasn't any, where else would your complaining customers go, nowhere, and they knew it, no matter how poor CS was, no matter what bugs where left unfixed, no matter there wasn't huge content updates you knew there just wasn't any other MMO out there to jump to.
Now move forward to the present and what do we have, the power is in our hands, no longer do the Devs hold sway over our wallets, no longer do we suffer in silence when things go wrong, we vote with our feet and move along pretty damn quickly when things aren't as we expect or want them to be.
I much prefer the way things are know to what they used to be, and the Devs should never forget that if they can't provide a product that is capable of providing the things they have promised then they are doomed to crash and burn under the weight of negativity from the player base, the past saw the power in the hands of the devs, and they absused it.
The number of people playing MMOs is increasing. The number of profitable MMOs (i.e. the ones that don't shut down) is increasing. The genre isn't dead. It also isn't dying.
To suggest otherwise is to be in denial or ignorance of the readily available evidence.
What the genre is doing, is changing.
Some MMO veterans/early adopters are still stuck in the mindset that an MMO can last forever. It's "ok" if they release buggy and incomplete because all MMOs do. We should support the fledgling MMO and give it time to grow and mature into a rich and deep virtual world rather than expecting an enjoyable game experience from day one.
Um, why?
The playerbase is changing. The new generation of the online community is radically different than the previous one 10-15 years ago. You can blame this on the prevalence of cheap, affordable internet .. but it's a simple truth that the web is no longer the bastion and sanctuary of nerds.
Add to that, UO was 12+ years ago .. many of us "veterans" have also changed with the times.
The only thing that most of us care about these days is that an MMO is fun. If it's not fun, there are plenty of other fun things for us to spend our time and money on.
We don't stick to a bad product anymore. There's too much competition in the market for us to have to; if we're not having fun, we can just game-hop to the next shiny. It's a buyers market.
So yeah, it's the developers fault. They need to realise that if they want to retain their playerbase, they need to not only provide their playerbase with a constant source of fun .. but that it has to be as good as or better than existing products on the market.
Releasing buggy crap .. leaving huge content holes and expecting people to grind .. not bothering to optimize their game engine and expecting players to put up with memory leaks and generally rubbish performance .. few self-respecting players are going to pump money into that crap.
I buy most new AAA MMOs; and I generally enjoy the "honeymoon" for a month or two, but if a developer wants my subscription past the first few months, they're gonna have to work to keep it.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Not if it was released the same way as when WoW was released back then.
People will burn it to the ground now
Always? Funny, I'm not settling for anything, there are no MMOs I want to play, therefore I'm not playing any. There seem to be a lot of people around the forums who are doing exactly the same thing. I'm not going to settle for anything less than what I want to play. If that means I never play an MMO ever again, I'm fine with that.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Not if it was released the same way as when WoW was released back then.
People will burn it to the ground now
A launch has nothing to do with the actual design of the game, as that shows. Meaning, if a good game has a rough launch, because its a good game it will still do well.
That said, I didnt think WoW's launch was that bad. In fact, after beta and into retail i saw no major issues on the server I played on. A small amount of downtime experienced was nothing other than a minor annoyance.
I was on about the lack of content not about wows launch.
mmo are not dying and far from it. i would say opposite. each year, more mmos is born than dies. each year there is more players of this genre (cant support it with numbers, just a feeling).
your problem is, players now are spread too much within hundred or so mmos. 4 years ago they all sticked to less than 10 titles i guess.
and not every title has bad launch. Runes of Magic is good example of the game that was impressive for the start (translations aside)
Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
OP should speak for himself. My expectations for a new MMO are pretty low these days and so far my expectations have been met.
WoW has raised the bar high.
The question you find yourself asking when you start a new MMO is: i'm paying $15 a month for this. it's not as fun as WoW, why am I playing it? And like thousands of others, I return to WoW.
I've become a bit jaded about new releases. I wait for free trials.
Marketers hype a game, raising expectations that never can be met. WAR and AoC are two good examples of this. I think they do this to increase box sales. The expectations are so high that people can't help but be disappointed.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I was on about the lack of content not about wows launch.
Lack of content? I do not recall a lack of content at all. In fact, there was always something for me to do. At the time the druid I played was perhaps one of the most geared out end game characters on the server. World pvp was fun and fresh, rare drops were actually rare and very few people had purples back in the day, much less blues.
I do have to admit though that Blizzard's content comes too slow for the way they designed the game however, more focus on dynamic pvp elements and goals would go a long way. I still remember when Blizzard was planning on player and guild housing, you can see some of the blocked off instances in the major cities like StormWind where it was going to be accessed. (unless they took it out in the past few years.)
Pretty much. Players expect good games and it's been made clear that such a task is too hard for the developers to overcome, so hopefully the players soon realize that we'll only be getting shitty titles for all eternity.
No.
The recent problems in the mmo industry are because companies are putting a lack of effort into their product. There are too many games out there now in a finished state for companies to expect the majority of players to stick around and pay to finish beta testing their game. There have also been launches, albeit few, that have shown a game can be launched without having an exorbitant amount of issues for a player to deal with. In addition, there have been some companies, albeit few, that had the customer support and service in place when their game launched so when major problems did occur they were able to handle them to an extent that appeased most players.
This is why games like WoW and LotR are successful and other games like Warhammer and AoC are barley hanging on. Companies would do themselves some good to look at how Blizzard and Turbine (with Rings mind you...DDO was a mess but seems like they learned from that endeavor). Instead, they continue to ignore what companies have done before them and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.
It's really ridiculous any more. There is no excuse for these companies to continue making the same repeated mistakes yet they ignore what has happened before them and seem to have no problem with shooting themselves repeatedly in the foot.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I concur. Years back, the MMO was an aqcuired taste. As it has become mainstream, game developers are trying out a huge variety of formulas in an attempt to appease a much larger customer base. This is an experimental phase, I believe. Eventually, some will get it just right. One thing I'm certain of is that future gaming consoles will be involved, for better or for worse.
High player expectations are actually what's keeping this genre alive. Developer greed is what's killing it. Many of them claim to have all this great stuff in game, they give away promotions and bonuses for spending a ton of money before the game is even released. They bank on box sales because retention costs too much time and money. I just wish the players would hurry up and get a clue and stop feeding these monsters.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
No.
The recent problems in the mmo industry are because companies are putting a lack of effort into their product. There are too many games out there now in a finished state for companies to expect the majority of players to stick around and pay to finish beta testing their game. There have also been launches, albeit few, that have shown a game can be launched without having an exorbitant amount of issues for a player to deal with. In addition, there have been some companies, albeit few, that had the customer support and service in place when their game launched so when major problems did occur they were able to handle them to an extent that appeased most players.
This is why games like WoW and LotR are successful and other games like Warhammer and AoC are barley hanging on. Companies would do themselves some good to look at how Blizzard and Turbine (with Rings mind you...DDO was a mess but seems like they learned from that endeavor). Instead, they continue to ignore what companies have done before them and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.
It's really ridiculous any more. There is no excuse for these companies to continue making the same repeated mistakes yet they ignore what has happened before them and seem to have no problem with shooting themselves repeatedly in the foot.
I don't think they are mistakes. For the most part, they know exactly what they are doing. It's too bad the players are too desperate to notice.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.