Like many have said before EVE, DAoC and UO are PvP games but WoW and WAR? I assume the author of the article just has limited experience with PvP MMORPGs? What about WW2online? Planetside? Shadowbane? And my personal favourite DFO? I understand I'm not going to like every game he lists but I don't consider WoW a PvP game, more like a PvE with some carebear button mashing rock/paper/sicssors arenas on the side. As for WAR? Well I suppose it could've been worse, he might have put AoC at number 1!
I would agree that WOW pvp was not that great but in Warhammer all you do is PVP. War might have failed at PVE but the PVP was awesome!
I would swap WAR out and Guild Wars into it's place. Then I would say that is a pretty fair list. I would possibly consider bumping WoW off of the list for something else. WoW's world PvP is fun, but the arenas are too unbalanced to be taken seriously.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
In terms of best PVP game out its Darkfall, and will be for a long time (MO being designed more for RP supposedly).
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
This, half of the mmorpg community is filled with a bunch of idiots sadly...
especially the Darkfall ones..did you notice that i would say close to 80% of the pro DF pvprs used terms like LOL, FAIL, etc....where as those who interjected for other games wrote nice descriptive sentences with their reasons? I thought it was pretty humorous...
While I hate Darkfall, I cant see how the trash called Warhammer Online can get in list, and DF dont. WTF UO doing here? It had some nice PvP in the early days, now there is almost none. Only thing I agree is EVE at #1.
For those of you who laugh at wow being on the list, have you actually played the game within the first 2 years of its release? Yes i admit the pvp now in WoW is a complete joke. However back in the old days before the AQ patch even. I absolutely LOVED AV. i still remember 8 hour long battles in AV where neither side could see victory, just back and forth of pure slaughter. In my opinion, blizzard should make another server to just allow old gameplay and none of the new crap they put in the game.
PvP now is much more developed in WoW, then during vanilla days. Huge community around Arenas, constant tournaments with $$$ prizes, lots of PvP superstars, thousands of PvP movies. Lots of people dont give a shit about raids or quests, playing only arenas.
WoW is not really a PvP game but arenas and great class balance gave it the biggest PvP community among all MMOs
lineage 2 was epic pvp. sure there were major class imbalances, crappy combat mechanics and a huge grind but you could pvp from day one for hunting spots. the clan wars and sieges were epic and spawned huge amounts of drama in an ever changing political climate which is only rivaled by EVE.
peopel talked about sieges for days afterwards, and could spwn epic wars, grudges and what not. i myself even had duels in the middle of the battlefield, 400 players between the two sides and me and one other guy zero in on one another to settle a rivalry which never really did end. after each siege we'd talk in PMs for hours about the seige, giving each other a pat on the back and giving tips on how to make the next encounter even more thrilling.
world pvp was common and ranged from one man gank runs, to gank squads roaming the country side to organised 9v9 faceoffs to impromptu epic 100v100~ battles.
every bit of progress we undertook was aimed at becoming more viable in pvp. we powerleveled rerolls to gain mreo strong pvp classes, bought second accounts for buffers, fueled billions of adena into crafters for better gear. fought for raid bosses for rare drops, mats and crystal upgrades.
the winners got nothing but glory, the right to the hunting spot or a five minute window in which to take on the raid boss. the losers lost 1-4% of their exp and were humbled. it was the golden age of pvp for me, and while i did have fun in wow, it was never as epic or as intense as lineage 2.
5. World of Warcraft. -based on the sheer number of net logins participating in pvp on a daily basis. Also, the design of battlegrounds and pvp rewards system
4. Ultima Online -I would rate it higher, but honestly it had flaws
3. Shadow Bane
2. Lineage 2
1. Eve Online
see, I made a list. Just like the rest of you can. There would be just as many people flaming my list as the writers list. Just like I would flame you for making a list that difers from my list
Maybe he should have made a top 10. probably would have had less flames :P
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
As far as those games I have played - I agree, this and EVE. Note to Darkfall fanboys - I have never played it and so am not commenting on it. Buy me a free month and I will try it. Same for DaoC - though I have heard many good things about. Shadowbane was great though - Just farming mobs one had to bring a team - some of us farmed and the rest of us kept a watchful eye for raiding partys. I always was afraid when out soloing. I also remember at least one 36 hour session defending our City. Great game - wish they would make another. EVE - in Space no one can hear you scream. Even noobies are not safe.
The other one that I loved besides DAOC and EVE believe it or not was EQ dark versus light pvp Tallon ZEK server. (this was the first 2 years before $oe broke it) Having to work your way into enemy territory to complete quests and your anywere any time looking over your shoulder was great. Sigh,then $oe took over end of all good things.
This game’s version of PvP may get flack for being the big daddy in the MMO world, and for pretty much screwing things up entirely back in the early days of the Honor Systems inception, but I have more memorable moments fighting other players in Azeroth than I do in any other game. Back before the Honor System was ever introduced, I spent countless hours fighting the Horde at Tarren Mill, and advancing on the Sepulcher just to see how long we dwarves, elves, gnomes, and men could hold off the enemy. Today, WoW’s PvP is more about E-Sports than open-world warfare, but for that it deserves plenty of mention. Blizzard has a knack for creating games that spawn an entire culture of competitive play, and WoW was no different. Something tells me we’ll be talking about Alterac Valley and Arena Scores for years to come.
I second this sentiment. There was a lot less ganking after BG was introduced, but it also kind of sterilised the gameworld. Some of the best fun I had in WoW was dodging gankers.
Me and another gnome flitting through Darkshire using our gnomish compactness to hide inside shrubbery to avoid a level 60 Tauren shaman and get our quests done.
Or the time in Lakeshire all us little nooblets ganged up on an Undead warrior who'd been ganking around the zone. We caught him on the road north of the bridge and while he killed about half of us, we nailed him and he didn't come back.
Or creeping through enemy territory for the first time with each character to get new teleport points or do class quests.
And I'll never forget the first time I popped a Fellhunter to sniff out a rogue. He had no idea we could all now see through his stealth and were about to pound him....
I must mention JumpGate (original) as it was the most adrenaline pumping I've ever experienced.
I also think PlanetSide should be in the list as it was indeed a PvP only game and quite popular in its day.
I haven't experienced DFO but from what I read, It looks like it should be in the list. Same goes for Shadowbane and Guildwars but I wouldn't remove any of the other games in there.
So all in all I'd simply compile a list with 9-10 games (throwing AC or SWG in there) instead of the current 5.
Lastly, I must say that, despite hating WOW, the fact that some 5 Million people play it for the it's "PvP side", tells something... The earlier vanilla period of open world PvP was good though.
Aion should defiently be on the list. Small group rifting is some of the most fun I've had pvping in a long long time. I give Aion until about mid 2011 to be one of the top pvp MMOs out.
How is DAoC somehow more of a PvP game when the real battles don't even start until max level? Somehow having FFA from level 1 doesn't qualify? You're delusional.
No Shadowbane? The game didn't have much else to offer, but it did do pvp very well.
Great itea. Someone wants a PvP game browses the top PvP games list, chooses for whatever reason to try Shadowbane only to find out after 10 mins later that it no longer runs...
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
Originally posted by Harafnir ... I agree that Darkfall should be out. 5 fan bois not a right make.
I very respectfully disagree. If you want to know what the top PvP MMORPGs of all time are, you should look at the games the top PvP guilds flock to for serious competition. As someone who has played PvP MMOs and on PvP servers since the genre started, there are certain games that these guilds hold in high regards.
Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call (Darktide), EVE Online, possibly Guild Wars or Lineage 2, and Darkfall.
I have played with and against some of the most prolific PvP guilds in the MMO genre, and believe me when I say Darkfall is a game where many of them have a presence for the last year. Whether you like the game or thinks its a piece of crap, doesn't matter. Whether the game has 11 million subscribers or 30,000 doesn't matter. The list shouldn't be based on sub numbers because PvP and hardcore PvP is a very niche part of the genre. Follow these guilds and you'll find the best PvP MMOs, and right now Darkfall is one of them. No game requires more situational awareness and personal skill at the controls in the genre than this one does, despite whatever other flaws there may be.
Confirming that Darkfall should be there. The title is "top 5 PVP MMOs" - if you want to define "top" as "best, highest quality, requiring most skill" then Darkfall should be there. If you want to define "top" as "most units sold" then WOW would be first... the criteria for "top" in this list doesn't seem to hold any water, seems more like "here are the only 5 PVP MMOs I have ever played".
How can Darkfall not have made the list? Even massively.com rated it as the best PvP of 2009, nevermind top 5
Good point. I don't think the OP has even tried it.
You're right, he didn't. In fact, he even stated a few pages ago, that he hasn't tried it yet.
Read the list again people. This is a list of HIS favorite games to PvP in. It's not the top 5 PvP MMOs, it's ~his~ top 5. If someone made another list and added Hello Kitty to it, that still only makes it their favorite. Has nothing to do with any of you. Move on and troll elsewhere.
I will agree however, that the title of the post is misleading and should be modified to state to obvious if only to save on the unabashed stupid going for *checks* almost 24 pages now.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Yes, yes, and yes. I still haven't met anything that comes close to DAoC's PvP system. Apparently they call the style Realm Vs. Realm now I guess. Regardless I haven't played in about 6 years, I hope I can get my account back hahaha. I had 6 max level 50's and quit right before they did their whole PvP system revamp. I want to go back, the 3 realms fighting is where it's at.
As you said, this was your personal list and you did not claim to have surveyed the entire field of options. Thus, thanks for the well written and reasoned article. I enjoyed reading it. However, I felt it was my duty as a diligent reader and forum commentator to add –
xxxxwtf!!!111 No DARKFALL wtfxxxx
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Comments
I would agree that WOW pvp was not that great but in Warhammer all you do is PVP. War might have failed at PVE but the PVP was awesome!
I would swap WAR out and Guild Wars into it's place. Then I would say that is a pretty fair list. I would possibly consider bumping WoW off of the list for something else. WoW's world PvP is fun, but the arenas are too unbalanced to be taken seriously.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
This, half of the mmorpg community is filled with a bunch of idiots sadly...
especially the Darkfall ones..did you notice that i would say close to 80% of the pro DF pvprs used terms like LOL, FAIL, etc....where as those who interjected for other games wrote nice descriptive sentences with their reasons? I thought it was pretty humorous...
While I hate Darkfall, I cant see how the trash called Warhammer Online can get in list, and DF dont. WTF UO doing here? It had some nice PvP in the early days, now there is almost none. Only thing I agree is EVE at #1.
PvP now is much more developed in WoW, then during vanilla days. Huge community around Arenas, constant tournaments with $$$ prizes, lots of PvP superstars, thousands of PvP movies. Lots of people dont give a shit about raids or quests, playing only arenas.
WoW is not really a PvP game but arenas and great class balance gave it the biggest PvP community among all MMOs
you put wow and war but no lineage 2?
lineage 2 was epic pvp. sure there were major class imbalances, crappy combat mechanics and a huge grind but you could pvp from day one for hunting spots. the clan wars and sieges were epic and spawned huge amounts of drama in an ever changing political climate which is only rivaled by EVE.
peopel talked about sieges for days afterwards, and could spwn epic wars, grudges and what not. i myself even had duels in the middle of the battlefield, 400 players between the two sides and me and one other guy zero in on one another to settle a rivalry which never really did end. after each siege we'd talk in PMs for hours about the seige, giving each other a pat on the back and giving tips on how to make the next encounter even more thrilling.
world pvp was common and ranged from one man gank runs, to gank squads roaming the country side to organised 9v9 faceoffs to impromptu epic 100v100~ battles.
every bit of progress we undertook was aimed at becoming more viable in pvp. we powerleveled rerolls to gain mreo strong pvp classes, bought second accounts for buffers, fueled billions of adena into crafters for better gear. fought for raid bosses for rare drops, mats and crystal upgrades.
the winners got nothing but glory, the right to the hunting spot or a five minute window in which to take on the raid boss. the losers lost 1-4% of their exp and were humbled. it was the golden age of pvp for me, and while i did have fun in wow, it was never as epic or as intense as lineage 2.
KERPLAH!
My top 5 (not you'rs)
5. World of Warcraft. -based on the sheer number of net logins participating in pvp on a daily basis. Also, the design of battlegrounds and pvp rewards system
4. Ultima Online -I would rate it higher, but honestly it had flaws
3. Shadow Bane
2. Lineage 2
1. Eve Online
see, I made a list. Just like the rest of you can. There would be just as many people flaming my list as the writers list. Just like I would flame you for making a list that difers from my list
Maybe he should have made a top 10. probably would have had less flames :P
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
As far as those games I have played - I agree, this and EVE. Note to Darkfall fanboys - I have never played it and so am not commenting on it. Buy me a free month and I will try it. Same for DaoC - though I have heard many good things about. Shadowbane was great though - Just farming mobs one had to bring a team - some of us farmed and the rest of us kept a watchful eye for raiding partys. I always was afraid when out soloing. I also remember at least one 36 hour session defending our City. Great game - wish they would make another. EVE - in Space no one can hear you scream. Even noobies are not safe.
The other one that I loved besides DAOC and EVE believe it or not was EQ dark versus light pvp Tallon ZEK server. (this was the first 2 years before $oe broke it) Having to work your way into enemy territory to complete quests and your anywere any time looking over your shoulder was great. Sigh,then $oe took over end of all good things.
World of Warcraft
This game’s version of PvP may get flack for being the big daddy in the MMO world, and for pretty much screwing things up entirely back in the early days of the Honor Systems inception, but I have more memorable moments fighting other players in Azeroth than I do in any other game. Back before the Honor System was ever introduced, I spent countless hours fighting the Horde at Tarren Mill, and advancing on the Sepulcher just to see how long we dwarves, elves, gnomes, and men could hold off the enemy. Today, WoW’s PvP is more about E-Sports than open-world warfare, but for that it deserves plenty of mention. Blizzard has a knack for creating games that spawn an entire culture of competitive play, and WoW was no different. Something tells me we’ll be talking about Alterac Valley and Arena Scores for years to come.
I second this sentiment. There was a lot less ganking after BG was introduced, but it also kind of sterilised the gameworld. Some of the best fun I had in WoW was dodging gankers.
Me and another gnome flitting through Darkshire using our gnomish compactness to hide inside shrubbery to avoid a level 60 Tauren shaman and get our quests done.
Or the time in Lakeshire all us little nooblets ganged up on an Undead warrior who'd been ganking around the zone. We caught him on the road north of the bridge and while he killed about half of us, we nailed him and he didn't come back.
Or creeping through enemy territory for the first time with each character to get new teleport points or do class quests.
And I'll never forget the first time I popped a Fellhunter to sniff out a rogue. He had no idea we could all now see through his stealth and were about to pound him....
Good times
I must mention JumpGate (original) as it was the most adrenaline pumping I've ever experienced.
I also think PlanetSide should be in the list as it was indeed a PvP only game and quite popular in its day.
I haven't experienced DFO but from what I read, It looks like it should be in the list. Same goes for Shadowbane and Guildwars but I wouldn't remove any of the other games in there.
So all in all I'd simply compile a list with 9-10 games (throwing AC or SWG in there) instead of the current 5.
Lastly, I must say that, despite hating WOW, the fact that some 5 Million people play it for the it's "PvP side", tells something... The earlier vanilla period of open world PvP was good though.
as many on the first 2 pages have mentioned (didn't read the rest) this
list is a sham without any mention of Darkfall
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Aion should defiently be on the list. Small group rifting is some of the most fun I've had pvping in a long long time. I give Aion until about mid 2011 to be one of the top pvp MMOs out.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
GW not even on the list ?
I'm not sure you're qualified to talk about PVP.
Well, the first and only one King of PvP MMORPGs is:
MMORPG.com's forum discussions about PvP
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
Great itea. Someone wants a PvP game browses the top PvP games list, chooses for whatever reason to try Shadowbane only to find out after 10 mins later that it no longer runs...
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
I very respectfully disagree. If you want to know what the top PvP MMORPGs of all time are, you should look at the games the top PvP guilds flock to for serious competition. As someone who has played PvP MMOs and on PvP servers since the genre started, there are certain games that these guilds hold in high regards.
Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call (Darktide), EVE Online, possibly Guild Wars or Lineage 2, and Darkfall.
I have played with and against some of the most prolific PvP guilds in the MMO genre, and believe me when I say Darkfall is a game where many of them have a presence for the last year. Whether you like the game or thinks its a piece of crap, doesn't matter. Whether the game has 11 million subscribers or 30,000 doesn't matter. The list shouldn't be based on sub numbers because PvP and hardcore PvP is a very niche part of the genre. Follow these guilds and you'll find the best PvP MMOs, and right now Darkfall is one of them. No game requires more situational awareness and personal skill at the controls in the genre than this one does, despite whatever other flaws there may be.
Confirming that Darkfall should be there. The title is "top 5 PVP MMOs" - if you want to define "top" as "best, highest quality, requiring most skill" then Darkfall should be there. If you want to define "top" as "most units sold" then WOW would be first... the criteria for "top" in this list doesn't seem to hold any water, seems more like "here are the only 5 PVP MMOs I have ever played".
imo the only half working pvp enviroment was givin in UO pre trammel.
And trammel was born out of a quite shitty playerbase that made life miserable for alot of ppl, and not
of getting more atractive to a more casual playerbase .
As for today theres only 1 title that comes into my mind that offers good and stable (fair) PvP and thats EVE .
Good point. I don't think the OP has even tried it.
Good point. I don't think the OP has even tried it.
You're right, he didn't. In fact, he even stated a few pages ago, that he hasn't tried it yet.
Read the list again people. This is a list of HIS favorite games to PvP in. It's not the top 5 PvP MMOs, it's ~his~ top 5. If someone made another list and added Hello Kitty to it, that still only makes it their favorite. Has nothing to do with any of you. Move on and troll elsewhere.
I will agree however, that the title of the post is misleading and should be modified to state to obvious if only to save on the unabashed stupid going for *checks* almost 24 pages now.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
He must live in a closet
i think we can safely insert "that paid to be included" into all the title of all future list articles.
Yes, yes, and yes. I still haven't met anything that comes close to DAoC's PvP system. Apparently they call the style Realm Vs. Realm now I guess. Regardless I haven't played in about 6 years, I hope I can get my account back hahaha. I had 6 max level 50's and quit right before they did their whole PvP system revamp. I want to go back, the 3 realms fighting is where it's at.
As you said, this was your personal list and you did not claim to have surveyed the entire field of options. Thus, thanks for the well written and reasoned article. I enjoyed reading it. However, I felt it was my duty as a diligent reader and forum commentator to add –
xxxxwtf!!!111 No DARKFALL wtfxxxx
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga