No, MMOs are meant to have you meet strangers, but the number one reason for interest in any MMO is because your RL friends want you to play. That's exactly how WoW got big. I know a group of friends where it used to be one guy playing it, and the rest clowned him for it... now they are WoW players all.
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Oldschool MMORPGs that emphasized interdependency between players, and the social and massive world aspects of MMORPGs could be played with anyone. You often met new people and took up with them, grouping, learning about secrets of the game, joining guilds, or random groups of people you met when you wandered into an unexplored dungeon.
As MMOs become more and more broken down into instances, hold you hand and guide you down a linear path more and more, and become far easier and more profitable to solo, the social aspect almost dissapears unless you bring real life friends into the mix.
So, the answer you're looking for is, old (true) MMORPGs can be played with or without friends, new MMORPGs, its extremely difficult to meet people, so you're almost forced to bring your own friends.
Take for instance the new Star Wars MMO. 95% soloable, from the devs themselves, they give you NPC companions, everything is instanced so the scripted story can play out, but they give you the option to bring people in with you. Well...since there's no open game world, who are those people going to be ? Certainly not random people you just met. You're going to bring friends with you from OUTSIDE the game. That's new school MMORPG socializing.
It's possible to meet people in new MMORPGs, but its a lot harder/rarer of an occurance, because you don't really need anyone else, until you run into some random quest that says "group quest".
There is going to be open worlds in Star Wars: The Old Republic. I just hope I'm not forced to do the single player scripted storyline to advance. Time will tell.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I really don't know what to think now, are you all saying MMO's are now becoming more like their Single Player cousins, the only difference being your in a living world with other random players from around the world, if that's the case then why not turn the genre into the MSPRPG (Massive Single Player Roleplaying Game) because it seems like people don't like to group anymore, people don't want to waste hours grinding with people who are very likely to leave the group anyway when half way the instance.
But if you want to play on your own then why play an MMO on your own, it doesn't make any sense? If you wanted to play a RPG type game on your own then that's what Single Player RPG's are for. I think I'll give up on this genre, no-one cares anymore. =(
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
I really don't know what to think now, are you all saying MMO's are now becoming more like their Single Player cousins, the only difference being your in a living world with other random players from around the world, if that's the case then why not turn the genre into the MSPRPG (Massive Single Player Roleplaying Game) because it seems like people don't like to group anymore, people don't want to waste hours grinding with people who are very likely to leave the group anyway when half way the instance.
But if you want to play on your own then why play an MMO on your own, it doesn't make any sense? If you wanted to play a RPG type game on your own then that's what Single Player RPG's are for. I think I'll give up on this genre, no-one cares anymore. =(
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
I really don't know what to think now, are you all saying MMO's are now becoming more like their Single Player cousins, the only difference being your in a living world with other random players from around the world, if that's the case then why not turn the genre into the MSPRPG (Massive Single Player Roleplaying Game) because it seems like people don't like to group anymore, people don't want to waste hours grinding with people who are very likely to leave the group anyway when half way the instance.
But if you want to play on your own then why play an MMO on your own, it doesn't make any sense? If you wanted to play a RPG type game on your own then that's what Single Player RPG's are for. I think I'll give up on this genre, no-one cares anymore. =(
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
I don't know, it depends on a few things. If SWOTR shakes the industry like I think it will, then you'll see several clones of it, making the switch from MMORPG to MSPRPG continue. Or maybe EverQuest 3 will actually be more like EQ1 instead of WoW, and we'll see a resurgance of virtual world MMOs.
As it is now, there are still a few MMOs that encourage socializing, like Ryzom I hear, and if Vanguard weren't dead in the water that'd be a great one. Fallen Earth, I THINK is fairly social. And Darkfall is social as well, in its cut-throat way.
I really don't know what to think now, are you all saying MMO's are now becoming more like their Single Player cousins, the only difference being your in a living world with other random players from around the world, if that's the case then why not turn the genre into the MSPRPG (Massive Single Player Roleplaying Game) because it seems like people don't like to group anymore, people don't want to waste hours grinding with people who are very likely to leave the group anyway when half way the instance.
But if you want to play on your own then why play an MMO on your own, it doesn't make any sense? If you wanted to play a RPG type game on your own then that's what Single Player RPG's are for. I think I'll give up on this genre, no-one cares anymore. =(
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
A large reason people don't group--particularly in the lower levels--is that your experience gets divided in most games. If you solo a mob, you may get 100 exp. If you kill it with a partner, you may get 50 exp. You'll have to kill double the amount of mobs and, while, yes there are two of you, some people don't want to take that extra time. Not to mention if a quest requires you to get several drops (10 wolf pelts become 20).
I don't think grouping is dead. I think early level grouping is harder. And I know you said that you didn't want to hear that when you hit level X it becomes more fun, but I think as far as grouping goes, it does happen more when you're a higher level, have instances etc.
LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
I really don't know what to think now, are you all saying MMO's are now becoming more like their Single Player cousins, the only difference being your in a living world with other random players from around the world, if that's the case then why not turn the genre into the MSPRPG (Massive Single Player Roleplaying Game) because it seems like people don't like to group anymore, people don't want to waste hours grinding with people who are very likely to leave the group anyway when half way the instance.
But if you want to play on your own then why play an MMO on your own, it doesn't make any sense? If you wanted to play a RPG type game on your own then that's what Single Player RPG's are for. I think I'll give up on this genre, no-one cares anymore. =(
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
A large reason people don't group--particularly in the lower levels--is that your experience gets divided in most games. If you solo a mob, you may get 100 exp. If you kill it with a partner, you may get 50 exp. You'll have to kill double the amount of mobs and, while, yes there are two of you, some people don't want to take that extra time. Not to mention if a quest requires you to get several drops (10 wolf pelts become 20).
I don't think grouping is dead. I think early level grouping is harder. And I know you said that you didn't want to hear that when you hit level X it becomes more fun, but I think as far as grouping goes, it does happen more when you're a higher level, have instances etc.
LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
Maybe if games actually had group exp bonuses like they used to, or down time, giving people an incentive to group, for less downtime and more experience....
I don't know, it depends on a few things. If SWOTR shakes the industry like I think it will, then you'll see several clones of it, making the switch from MMORPG to MSPRPG continue. Or maybe EverQuest 3 will actually be more like EQ1 instead of WoW, and we'll see a resurgance of virtual world MMOs. As it is now, there are still a few MMOs that encourage socializing, like Ryzom I hear, and if Vanguard weren't dead in the water that'd be a great one. Fallen Earth, I THINK is fairly social. And Darkfall is social as well, in its cut-throat way.
Though I have played MMO's where I knew people, most of my in game socialization has been with people met in game. Join the looking for group channels, join a guild/kin... you have to extend your self a bit to meet people. The game experience will be more enjoyable.
A large reason people don't group--particularly in the lower levels--is that your experience gets divided in most games. If you solo a mob, you may get 100 exp. If you kill it with a partner, you may get 50 exp. You'll have to kill double the amount of mobs and, while, yes there are two of you, some people don't want to take that extra time. Not to mention if a quest requires you to get several drops (10 wolf pelts become 20). I don't think grouping is dead. I think early level grouping is harder. And I know you said that you didn't want to hear that when you hit level X it becomes more fun, but I think as far as grouping goes, it does happen more when you're a higher level, have instances etc. LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
I'm aware that all these other games are nowhere near the population rates as WoW but that's not necessarily a bad thing, WoW's only popular because more dougebags play this game, I mean lets face it, WoW's forums are now a lair for trolls and you really can't ask for help because either they give you misleading information, ignore you or call you a noob. WoW's more of a kids game anyway.
I had a group of friends, that every Sat. Night for about...6-7 years we'd get together to hang out and play D&D (aka roll characters, order pizza, play for 30-40 minutes, eat pizza, bullshit for 3-4 hours and go home) During this time I was an avid MMO gamer. They told me I was stupid for paying to play an online only game. Then I introduced them to Guild Wars... they all started playing it, and Sat. night sessions broke into every other Sat., to once a month. Then I was asked about WoW, and showed them the free trial. Then my friend showed it to the rest, and so on. Sat. night gatherings ceased to exist. Most of my time visiting my friends consisted of me sitting next to their computer watching them play WoW. So long story short, if I ever wanted to spend time with my friends anymore, it was always in game. If we had anything to talk about, it was only about the game.
*shrugs* double edged sword I guess.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
A large reason people don't group--particularly in the lower levels--is that your experience gets divided in most games. If you solo a mob, you may get 100 exp. If you kill it with a partner, you may get 50 exp. You'll have to kill double the amount of mobs and, while, yes there are two of you, some people don't want to take that extra time. Not to mention if a quest requires you to get several drops (10 wolf pelts become 20). I don't think grouping is dead. I think early level grouping is harder. And I know you said that you didn't want to hear that when you hit level X it becomes more fun, but I think as far as grouping goes, it does happen more when you're a higher level, have instances etc. LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
I'm aware that all these other games are nowhere near the population rates as WoW but that's not necessarily a bad thing, WoW's only popular because more dougebags play this game, I mean lets face it, WoW's forums are now a lair for trolls and you really can't ask for help because either they give you misleading information, ignore you or call you a noob. WoW's more of a kids game anyway.
I wouldn't go as far as to characterize them all as that--I've made some of my best gaming friends in WoW. But the reason I brought that up is because it can cause the games to feel empty at times. And if it feels empty, you may not immediately find that group camaraderie that you're looking for.
I had a group of friends, that every Sat. Night for about...6-7 years we'd get together to hang out and play D&D (aka roll characters, order pizza, play for 30-40 minutes, eat pizza, bullshit for 3-4 hours and go home) During this time I was an avid MMO gamer. They told me I was stupid for paying to play an online only game. Then I introduced them to Guild Wars... they all started playing it, and Sat. night sessions broke into every other Sat., to once a month. Then I was asked about WoW, and showed them the free trial. Then my friend showed it to the rest, and so on. Sat. night gatherings ceased to exist. Most of my time visiting my friends consisted of me sitting next to their computer watching them play WoW. So long story short, if I ever wanted to spend time with my friends anymore, it was always in game. If we had anything to talk about, it was only about the game. *shrugs* double edged sword I guess.
You lot should of stayed with the D&D board game, seems a lot more fun to be honest, MMORPG's are more for those that can't have real people to play board games with them.
I'm aware that all these other games are nowhere near the population rates as WoW but that's not necessarily a bad thing, WoW's only popular because more dougebags play this game, I mean lets face it, WoW's forums are now a lair for trolls and you really can't ask for help because either they give you misleading information, ignore you or call you a noob. WoW's more of a kids game anyway.
I wouldn't go as far as to characterize them all as that--I've made some of my best gaming friends in WoW. But the reason I brought that up is because it can cause the games to feel empty at times. And if it feels empty, you may not immediately find that group camaraderie that you're looking for.
I could never find friends in WoW, very rarely I did meet people who liked me as a friend but they all disappeared anyway, never to be seen again. But people trolling in-game was the final straw for me, besides how can you play it now when everyone has beaten the biggest and baddest villain in Warcraft, the Lich King, after that there's really not much left but a big ass dragon larger than Onxyia.
I had a group of friends, that every Sat. Night for about...6-7 years we'd get together to hang out and play D&D (aka roll characters, order pizza, play for 30-40 minutes, eat pizza, bullshit for 3-4 hours and go home) During this time I was an avid MMO gamer. They told me I was stupid for paying to play an online only game. Then I introduced them to Guild Wars... they all started playing it, and Sat. night sessions broke into every other Sat., to once a month. Then I was asked about WoW, and showed them the free trial. Then my friend showed it to the rest, and so on. Sat. night gatherings ceased to exist. Most of my time visiting my friends consisted of me sitting next to their computer watching them play WoW. So long story short, if I ever wanted to spend time with my friends anymore, it was always in game. If we had anything to talk about, it was only about the game. *shrugs* double edged sword I guess.
You lot should of stayed with the D&D board game, seems a lot more fun to be honest, MMORPG's are more for those that can't have real people to play board games with them.
Well I played MMO's since UO was released on day one, yet never had a problem with meeting up with the crew for Sat. night fun. Years later I finally get them to try a few games and it destroyed "sat. night". It's a double edged sword... because on one hand... after gaming about 7 years the nights weren't really about RPing anymore moreso than bs'ing, catching something on the TV and bitching about how greasy the local pizza is, but most were too damned cheap to chip in to order something better. On the other, it's fun to have a collective goal of being a team of in-game badasses, but at the sacrifice of social enrichment outside of the PC realm.
Though I'm not sure if it has anything to do with it... perhaps it's because I played the earlier mainstream MMO's (UO, EQ, DAOC, FFXI) as compared to when they entered the genre (WoW era). Or maybe they got tired of calculating THAC0... *shrugs*
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
Oh on second thoughts, are you saying all the other MMORPG's are deserted garage while WoW is the only MMORPG that's good and has a big enough player base?
LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
Oh on second thoughts, are you saying all the other MMORPG's are deserted garage while WoW is the only MMORPG that's good and has a big enough player base?
Sheesh, no need to try to put words in my mouth. As I stated before, I just said that in the sense of grouping. If you have 100 people and 80 are jerks, 10 are decent, and 10 are awesome, that's still more than if you have 10 people, with 3 jerks, 3 decent people, and 4 awesome people. Yes, there's more awesome people proportionately, but it's still ultimately less.
It seems you have a strong animosity towards WoW, which is fine. That's why I suggested LotRO and FFXI. WoW is only one of the games I've played, and was never as dedicated to it as I was to--say--WAR. I was the Content Lead for WAR's largest fansite (Warhammeralliance.com) and interviewed lead developers of the game. Yet you don't see me pushing WAR on you because I don't think it fits what you're looking for in a community.
So, by no means am I trying to claim that WoW is the best and that the rest are "garbage." If I WAS trying to say and claim that, I would have said it. So again, please do not attempt to put words in my mouth. Did I enjoy WoW? Yes. Did I make some very close friends? Yes. Did I meet some jerks? Absolutely. Am I still playing? No. And as such, I have no reason to really be pushing WoW.
I replied earlier stating why I had said that, and I stand by that post. I meant nothing other than, although the communities are much more friendly, they are smaller, which may cause a lack in the feeling of strong camaraderie. I hope that clears up my intent.
Back in the early days of MMO's, the forced grouping and down time mechanics encouraged people to socialize by giving them time to do so. It also provided plenty of activities that were common to a large number of players so you were likely make friends easier. Today's quest based games really divide the player base and turn everyone into soloers, and there's little opportunity to make friends which is why the OP made this post, because that's the way the games are these days, and it is better to bring your own friends because you're not likely to make many in game. I've rarely played MMO's with real life friends so I've had to learn to make them or I'd be enjoying them a whole lot less.
Like Kyle, I think I come from a different generation that puts value on different things. The new crop of games will more then likely start to offer less and less as years go by.
I play the same games as my friends but more often then not I go off on my own and play on a separate server, or I play on 2 servers where they play and then my own. For whatever reason my friends have such varied play styles that none of them really play together, mainly because none of them can agree on a common activity. This coupled with my wanting to meet new people whom I don't know and just seeing who else is playing usually splits me away from them.
Even though we rarely play together we still make time to hang out, or go out to bars, or do activities together like paintball, sports, or we pile into cars and pick a direction to go and see what's out there. Generally I pick my own server and play on it and join my friends from time to time but we're all "outgrowing" the genre as it seems since less and less of us play nowadays. Hell I haven't played an mmo since August of '09, and even then it was half ass gaming since I'd log in once a week.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I really don't know what to think now, are you all saying MMO's are now becoming more like their Single Player cousins, the only difference being your in a living world with other random players from around the world, if that's the case then why not turn the genre into the MSPRPG (Massive Single Player Roleplaying Game) because it seems like people don't like to group anymore, people don't want to waste hours grinding with people who are very likely to leave the group anyway when half way the instance.
But if you want to play on your own then why play an MMO on your own, it doesn't make any sense? If you wanted to play a RPG type game on your own then that's what Single Player RPG's are for. I think I'll give up on this genre, no-one cares anymore. =(
Well game design is constantly shifting towards what players actually want (even if it's not perfect at doing so.) So it's an indication that a large portion of the market wants games to be like this, if you see a shift towards a more singleplayer-like game.
However we won't see the complete removal of team play in games. Team play has always and will always be of interest to people.
One of the huge issues to solve? In Diablo 2 if I knew my friend's server name/IP I could be killing alongside them ~3 mins after launching the game. In an average MMORPG the time it takes to get a group settled and killing something can be 10-45 minutes, depending on various factors.
20-45 minutes is the total gaming session length of many players! So that's a huge barrier to grouping.
MMORPGs have taken grouping further than it's ever been (partially with role design) but they really need to solve these crippling problems if they want to continue being about teamplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just want to say somethings to clear something up, looking at the polls most people say it is best to have a friend yet the forum replies mostly say Solo is the way of MMO's now.
Should I just forget about the MMORPG genre altogether, I mean if I don't have a friend, what is the point in playing MMO's?
Or when SW:TOR comes out, should I just solo forever since they say grouping will not be needed in that game and therefore not bother trying to make friends?
Just want to say somethings to clear something up, looking at the polls most people say it is best to have a friend yet the forum replies mostly say Solo is the way of MMO's now.
Should I just forget about the MMORPG genre altogether, I mean if I don't have a friend, what is the point in playing MMO's? Or when SW:TOR comes out, should I just solo forever since they say grouping will not be needed in that game and therefore not bother trying to make friends?
We don't know how SW:TOR will pan out.
But I plan on giving it a try. I get completely bored with solo play in MMORPGs after about 5 minutes. It just really doesn't interest me at all.
I don't care to read quest lines, dont' care about collecting shinies, dont' care about quickly getting to max level. None of that is really what I find fun in an MMORPG.
The ONLY thing that entertains me in an MMORPG is playing with other people.
I plan to do SW:TOR almost exclusively while grouped.
you have to be reasonable, and solo the first 5 or 10 levels, because that's when people are figuring out the gui, deciding what sort of character to make their main, and stuff like that, so often there isn't a bunch of grouping going on in the very early levels, about the first 20 hours or so of game play.
But after that, I'm grouping for 90% of the time I'm going to play.
I think I'll be able to do that in SW:TOR. If not, I'll cancel my sub.
Of course, I'll also cancel my sub if the group dynamics are boring because the game plays like a mini zerg, but I don't think they will be from teh screens I've seen so far.
I think its entirely upto the personality of the individual, I myself prefer to play MMO's solo and to attempt to make a name for myself on that particular game before I eventually get bored and disappear onto another one. Theres also the factor that some people like to escape from reality for a while and actually make their e-selfs in a game to make friends online to share their enjoyment of the game they are currently subscribing to. (personality dependent of course)
Of course some people would like that instant thrill of a friend they can learn from/with and get really involved in the game together, I know a few people that play WoW together and really get a buzz out of it. Its nice to see but I'd really like to keep real life and the "other" life seperate.
I sometimes play MMOs with family members, but it's rare that I have a RL friend who is playing the same game, except for WoW, where all my friends are on different servers and want me to start over from scratch on their server... which means I have a bunch of low level alts on the servers they have 80s on and we don't play together anyway. And my family members usually out-level me at some point and we don't play together except when they help me with stuff, which is a lot different than playing at the same level. What I end up doing most of the time is playing with friends and guildees that I make entirely in the game. Which brings me to my point.
MMOs are meant to be played with *friends*. It doesn't matter if you made them in real life or in the game. Games are more fun with friends. MMOs were made to take advantage of this by allowing you to play in a persistent world with thousands of other potential friends. I game-hop enough that 90% of the time I don't know anyone playing the game that I'm starting on at all. I have to make new friends every time.
Also, there's a great immersion reason to play with friends you meet in game. You've never seen them in real life. The only representation you have of them is their character. Cognitively you know that they're another person sitting behind a computer, but it's much easier when you haven't really seen them to associate them with their character, and not some guy sitting completely stationary behind a computer trying to stretch his legs in his cramped computer space while he types "lol" for the 9th time in the last 5 minutes because someone said something mildly funny or strange. You haven't seen them. You don't have a mental image of the person that you think of when you think of him or her. You're going to get a mental image of their character, instead. At least, if you see their character often enough instead of just chatting with them... but then, if you're just chatting with them, you're not really playing the game with them, are you?
Also, if you're looking for a group-oriented game, FFXI is very much group oriented. Check it out on the game list here at MMORPG.com, and talk with some of the people over on the FFXI forums there (because honestly I don't think the official review is very thorough... it seems to represent more first impressions than true game, although there is a fair amount of truth in it too.) Anyway, talk to some of the players. I haven't played it since 2008 due to internet issues but I'm planning on going back soon. Server population is still very healthy from what I'm told. Grouping isn't absolutely necessary anymore, but you don't have the quest-based xp system that encourages solo play. There are quests, but 90% of them give small money or item rewards and are really there for the story, to unlock content such as new classes, or to help you get money in the early stages of the game. The main storyline comes from missions, which include some pretty nice cutscenes, and most of which (past the first 6 or 7 missions) absolutely require you to cooperate with others to complete. Leveling is so much faster when you play with others that there is always someone looking for a group, and usually enough for a full group. Friends outleveling you is not an issue, because if you group with them they can scale down to your level, along with their gear and abilities, and you both get xp while you team up to take down mobs appropriate for a group your level.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)
Should I just forget about the MMORPG genre altogether, I mean if I don't have a friend, what is the point in playing MMO's? Or when SW:TOR comes out, should I just solo forever since they say grouping will not be needed in that game and therefore not bother trying to make friends?
If you don't enjoy MMORPGs at all without a real life friend playing, why would you bother with any MMORPG?
Just seems weird to ask questions that only you can answer in an internet forum...
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I discovered playing with RL friends in WoW just never worked out... You want a big raid guild that raids every night, they want to pvp 24/7. You want to go hardcore pvp after raids, they want to be ultra casual and only show up for a 3 hour raid (like it was a job) then log.
It always seemed like my IRL friends were "holding me back" for a variety of reasons. Now i just ignore them and let them play / do whatever they want. Not a good attitude I know...but screw it they are noobs.
Comments
No, MMOs are meant to have you meet strangers, but the number one reason for interest in any MMO is because your RL friends want you to play. That's exactly how WoW got big. I know a group of friends where it used to be one guy playing it, and the rest clowned him for it... now they are WoW players all.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/thread/266197/Many-of-Your-Concerns-Set-to-Rest-New-Dev-Video.html
There is going to be open worlds in Star Wars: The Old Republic. I just hope I'm not forced to do the single player scripted storyline to advance. Time will tell.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
I don't know, it depends on a few things. If SWOTR shakes the industry like I think it will, then you'll see several clones of it, making the switch from MMORPG to MSPRPG continue. Or maybe EverQuest 3 will actually be more like EQ1 instead of WoW, and we'll see a resurgance of virtual world MMOs.
As it is now, there are still a few MMOs that encourage socializing, like Ryzom I hear, and if Vanguard weren't dead in the water that'd be a great one. Fallen Earth, I THINK is fairly social. And Darkfall is social as well, in its cut-throat way.
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
A large reason people don't group--particularly in the lower levels--is that your experience gets divided in most games. If you solo a mob, you may get 100 exp. If you kill it with a partner, you may get 50 exp. You'll have to kill double the amount of mobs and, while, yes there are two of you, some people don't want to take that extra time. Not to mention if a quest requires you to get several drops (10 wolf pelts become 20).
I don't think grouping is dead. I think early level grouping is harder. And I know you said that you didn't want to hear that when you hit level X it becomes more fun, but I think as far as grouping goes, it does happen more when you're a higher level, have instances etc.
LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
MSPRPG is what the new SW MMO is going to be. Its still marketed as an MMO though to get away with stuff like monthly fees and item shops.
So that's it then, the days of grouping in a MMO are long gone then? For the mean time, what could I play, pointless coming back for WoW as I don't possess that game anymore and I don't plan to come back there ever. Main thing is it's going to be strange just playing on your own when there's tons of people playing the game near to were your character is.
A large reason people don't group--particularly in the lower levels--is that your experience gets divided in most games. If you solo a mob, you may get 100 exp. If you kill it with a partner, you may get 50 exp. You'll have to kill double the amount of mobs and, while, yes there are two of you, some people don't want to take that extra time. Not to mention if a quest requires you to get several drops (10 wolf pelts become 20).
I don't think grouping is dead. I think early level grouping is harder. And I know you said that you didn't want to hear that when you hit level X it becomes more fun, but I think as far as grouping goes, it does happen more when you're a higher level, have instances etc.
LotRO has a very nice community from what I remember and tend to be rather helpful and may group up with you. I always had a good time in FFXI as well. Those may be two games you want to look at. Be forewarned, however, that there's no where near as many people in those games as in WoW.
Maybe if games actually had group exp bonuses like they used to, or down time, giving people an incentive to group, for less downtime and more experience....
What do you mean by social in a cut-throat way?
Though I have played MMO's where I knew people, most of my in game socialization has been with people met in game. Join the looking for group channels, join a guild/kin... you have to extend your self a bit to meet people. The game experience will be more enjoyable.
Skaroth
See the violence inherent in the system!
I'm aware that all these other games are nowhere near the population rates as WoW but that's not necessarily a bad thing, WoW's only popular because more dougebags play this game, I mean lets face it, WoW's forums are now a lair for trolls and you really can't ask for help because either they give you misleading information, ignore you or call you a noob. WoW's more of a kids game anyway.
I had a group of friends, that every Sat. Night for about...6-7 years we'd get together to hang out and play D&D (aka roll characters, order pizza, play for 30-40 minutes, eat pizza, bullshit for 3-4 hours and go home) During this time I was an avid MMO gamer. They told me I was stupid for paying to play an online only game. Then I introduced them to Guild Wars... they all started playing it, and Sat. night sessions broke into every other Sat., to once a month. Then I was asked about WoW, and showed them the free trial. Then my friend showed it to the rest, and so on. Sat. night gatherings ceased to exist. Most of my time visiting my friends consisted of me sitting next to their computer watching them play WoW. So long story short, if I ever wanted to spend time with my friends anymore, it was always in game. If we had anything to talk about, it was only about the game.
*shrugs* double edged sword I guess.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
I'm aware that all these other games are nowhere near the population rates as WoW but that's not necessarily a bad thing, WoW's only popular because more dougebags play this game, I mean lets face it, WoW's forums are now a lair for trolls and you really can't ask for help because either they give you misleading information, ignore you or call you a noob. WoW's more of a kids game anyway.
I wouldn't go as far as to characterize them all as that--I've made some of my best gaming friends in WoW. But the reason I brought that up is because it can cause the games to feel empty at times. And if it feels empty, you may not immediately find that group camaraderie that you're looking for.
You lot should of stayed with the D&D board game, seems a lot more fun to be honest, MMORPG's are more for those that can't have real people to play board games with them.
I wouldn't go as far as to characterize them all as that--I've made some of my best gaming friends in WoW. But the reason I brought that up is because it can cause the games to feel empty at times. And if it feels empty, you may not immediately find that group camaraderie that you're looking for.
I could never find friends in WoW, very rarely I did meet people who liked me as a friend but they all disappeared anyway, never to be seen again. But people trolling in-game was the final straw for me, besides how can you play it now when everyone has beaten the biggest and baddest villain in Warcraft, the Lich King, after that there's really not much left but a big ass dragon larger than Onxyia.
You lot should of stayed with the D&D board game, seems a lot more fun to be honest, MMORPG's are more for those that can't have real people to play board games with them.
Well I played MMO's since UO was released on day one, yet never had a problem with meeting up with the crew for Sat. night fun. Years later I finally get them to try a few games and it destroyed "sat. night". It's a double edged sword... because on one hand... after gaming about 7 years the nights weren't really about RPing anymore moreso than bs'ing, catching something on the TV and bitching about how greasy the local pizza is, but most were too damned cheap to chip in to order something better. On the other, it's fun to have a collective goal of being a team of in-game badasses, but at the sacrifice of social enrichment outside of the PC realm.
Though I'm not sure if it has anything to do with it... perhaps it's because I played the earlier mainstream MMO's (UO, EQ, DAOC, FFXI) as compared to when they entered the genre (WoW era). Or maybe they got tired of calculating THAC0... *shrugs*
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Oh on second thoughts, are you saying all the other MMORPG's are deserted garage while WoW is the only MMORPG that's good and has a big enough player base?
Oh on second thoughts, are you saying all the other MMORPG's are deserted garage while WoW is the only MMORPG that's good and has a big enough player base?
Sheesh, no need to try to put words in my mouth. As I stated before, I just said that in the sense of grouping. If you have 100 people and 80 are jerks, 10 are decent, and 10 are awesome, that's still more than if you have 10 people, with 3 jerks, 3 decent people, and 4 awesome people. Yes, there's more awesome people proportionately, but it's still ultimately less.
It seems you have a strong animosity towards WoW, which is fine. That's why I suggested LotRO and FFXI. WoW is only one of the games I've played, and was never as dedicated to it as I was to--say--WAR. I was the Content Lead for WAR's largest fansite (Warhammeralliance.com) and interviewed lead developers of the game. Yet you don't see me pushing WAR on you because I don't think it fits what you're looking for in a community.
So, by no means am I trying to claim that WoW is the best and that the rest are "garbage." If I WAS trying to say and claim that, I would have said it. So again, please do not attempt to put words in my mouth. Did I enjoy WoW? Yes. Did I make some very close friends? Yes. Did I meet some jerks? Absolutely. Am I still playing? No. And as such, I have no reason to really be pushing WoW.
I replied earlier stating why I had said that, and I stand by that post. I meant nothing other than, although the communities are much more friendly, they are smaller, which may cause a lack in the feeling of strong camaraderie. I hope that clears up my intent.
Like Kyle, I think I come from a different generation that puts value on different things. The new crop of games will more then likely start to offer less and less as years go by.
I play the same games as my friends but more often then not I go off on my own and play on a separate server, or I play on 2 servers where they play and then my own. For whatever reason my friends have such varied play styles that none of them really play together, mainly because none of them can agree on a common activity. This coupled with my wanting to meet new people whom I don't know and just seeing who else is playing usually splits me away from them.
Even though we rarely play together we still make time to hang out, or go out to bars, or do activities together like paintball, sports, or we pile into cars and pick a direction to go and see what's out there. Generally I pick my own server and play on it and join my friends from time to time but we're all "outgrowing" the genre as it seems since less and less of us play nowadays. Hell I haven't played an mmo since August of '09, and even then it was half ass gaming since I'd log in once a week.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Well game design is constantly shifting towards what players actually want (even if it's not perfect at doing so.) So it's an indication that a large portion of the market wants games to be like this, if you see a shift towards a more singleplayer-like game.
However we won't see the complete removal of team play in games. Team play has always and will always be of interest to people.
One of the huge issues to solve? In Diablo 2 if I knew my friend's server name/IP I could be killing alongside them ~3 mins after launching the game. In an average MMORPG the time it takes to get a group settled and killing something can be 10-45 minutes, depending on various factors.
20-45 minutes is the total gaming session length of many players! So that's a huge barrier to grouping.
MMORPGs have taken grouping further than it's ever been (partially with role design) but they really need to solve these crippling problems if they want to continue being about teamplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just want to say somethings to clear something up, looking at the polls most people say it is best to have a friend yet the forum replies mostly say Solo is the way of MMO's now.
Should I just forget about the MMORPG genre altogether, I mean if I don't have a friend, what is the point in playing MMO's?
Or when SW:TOR comes out, should I just solo forever since they say grouping will not be needed in that game and therefore not bother trying to make friends?
We don't know how SW:TOR will pan out.
But I plan on giving it a try. I get completely bored with solo play in MMORPGs after about 5 minutes. It just really doesn't interest me at all.
I don't care to read quest lines, dont' care about collecting shinies, dont' care about quickly getting to max level. None of that is really what I find fun in an MMORPG.
The ONLY thing that entertains me in an MMORPG is playing with other people.
I plan to do SW:TOR almost exclusively while grouped.
you have to be reasonable, and solo the first 5 or 10 levels, because that's when people are figuring out the gui, deciding what sort of character to make their main, and stuff like that, so often there isn't a bunch of grouping going on in the very early levels, about the first 20 hours or so of game play.
But after that, I'm grouping for 90% of the time I'm going to play.
I think I'll be able to do that in SW:TOR. If not, I'll cancel my sub.
Of course, I'll also cancel my sub if the group dynamics are boring because the game plays like a mini zerg, but I don't think they will be from teh screens I've seen so far.
I think its entirely upto the personality of the individual, I myself prefer to play MMO's solo and to attempt to make a name for myself on that particular game before I eventually get bored and disappear onto another one. Theres also the factor that some people like to escape from reality for a while and actually make their e-selfs in a game to make friends online to share their enjoyment of the game they are currently subscribing to. (personality dependent of course)
Of course some people would like that instant thrill of a friend they can learn from/with and get really involved in the game together, I know a few people that play WoW together and really get a buzz out of it. Its nice to see but I'd really like to keep real life and the "other" life seperate.
I sometimes play MMOs with family members, but it's rare that I have a RL friend who is playing the same game, except for WoW, where all my friends are on different servers and want me to start over from scratch on their server... which means I have a bunch of low level alts on the servers they have 80s on and we don't play together anyway. And my family members usually out-level me at some point and we don't play together except when they help me with stuff, which is a lot different than playing at the same level. What I end up doing most of the time is playing with friends and guildees that I make entirely in the game. Which brings me to my point.
MMOs are meant to be played with *friends*. It doesn't matter if you made them in real life or in the game. Games are more fun with friends. MMOs were made to take advantage of this by allowing you to play in a persistent world with thousands of other potential friends. I game-hop enough that 90% of the time I don't know anyone playing the game that I'm starting on at all. I have to make new friends every time.
Also, there's a great immersion reason to play with friends you meet in game. You've never seen them in real life. The only representation you have of them is their character. Cognitively you know that they're another person sitting behind a computer, but it's much easier when you haven't really seen them to associate them with their character, and not some guy sitting completely stationary behind a computer trying to stretch his legs in his cramped computer space while he types "lol" for the 9th time in the last 5 minutes because someone said something mildly funny or strange. You haven't seen them. You don't have a mental image of the person that you think of when you think of him or her. You're going to get a mental image of their character, instead. At least, if you see their character often enough instead of just chatting with them... but then, if you're just chatting with them, you're not really playing the game with them, are you?
Also, if you're looking for a group-oriented game, FFXI is very much group oriented. Check it out on the game list here at MMORPG.com, and talk with some of the people over on the FFXI forums there (because honestly I don't think the official review is very thorough... it seems to represent more first impressions than true game, although there is a fair amount of truth in it too.) Anyway, talk to some of the players. I haven't played it since 2008 due to internet issues but I'm planning on going back soon. Server population is still very healthy from what I'm told. Grouping isn't absolutely necessary anymore, but you don't have the quest-based xp system that encourages solo play. There are quests, but 90% of them give small money or item rewards and are really there for the story, to unlock content such as new classes, or to help you get money in the early stages of the game. The main storyline comes from missions, which include some pretty nice cutscenes, and most of which (past the first 6 or 7 missions) absolutely require you to cooperate with others to complete. Leveling is so much faster when you play with others that there is always someone looking for a group, and usually enough for a full group. Friends outleveling you is not an issue, because if you group with them they can scale down to your level, along with their gear and abilities, and you both get xp while you team up to take down mobs appropriate for a group your level.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)
The best way to deal with trolls:
http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/ [IGNORE THEM, THEY JUST WANT ATTENTION!]
If you don't enjoy MMORPGs at all without a real life friend playing, why would you bother with any MMORPG?
Just seems weird to ask questions that only you can answer in an internet forum...
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I discovered playing with RL friends in WoW just never worked out... You want a big raid guild that raids every night, they want to pvp 24/7. You want to go hardcore pvp after raids, they want to be ultra casual and only show up for a 3 hour raid (like it was a job) then log.
It always seemed like my IRL friends were "holding me back" for a variety of reasons. Now i just ignore them and let them play / do whatever they want. Not a good attitude I know...but screw it they are noobs.